What would win?

[goku2057]

The Dudes Talon, or my (Soon to be) STi!?

You decide!


Here are some specs of each!

Subaru WRX STi
Price: $30,995
Miles Per Gallon: 22/28 mpg
Curb Weight: 3263 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/AWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
Engine
Type: Turbocharged Flat-4
Displacement: 2457 cc
Horsepower: 300 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 300 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
Redline: 7000 rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 4.8 sec
0-100 mph: 12.9 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.2 sec @ 104 mph
Skidpad: .92g
Top Speed: 154 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 111 ft
Slalom Speed: 69.1 mph


Mitsubishi Talon
Doors (4 Door, etc.) 2


Body Type (SUV, etc.) Coupe


Drivetrain (4WD, etc.) 4WD


Engine Size (4.0 L, etc.) 2.0L


Horsepower (210, etc.) 300 (AS it will have after the new turbo is added.)

Hwy. Mileage 27 mpg


City Mileage 21 mpg


Seating Capacity 4/N/R passengers



WEll, Pick your poison.

[Omega]

let The Dude fill in the rest of his specs first...

[goku2057]

Good idea...I just winged that off the internet...

[The Dude]

My car is An Eagle Talon (Same car as a Mitsubishi Eclipse)

Its 2 door hatchback
210 HP
215 lbs of turque.
4 cylinder turbo AWD

I know stock for stock the STI will win. But My Talon is not going to be stock for long. I have a huge turbo coming in the mail right now and when thats put on after a little tuning, the STI will be in my rear view mirror :8)

The goal of my Talon is 320 HP to the wheels for under 10,000 including the cars price. With that power a stock STI will be no problem

[speed stick]

I can't say. I really don't know a whole lot about cars right now. Don't worry, I'm trying to pick up as fast as I can.

[The Dude]

Keep in mind that my car cost me $6000 and Goku's costs $30,000

[speed stick]

Goku spend that much money! Thats a lot. And hes only 18. Damn

[goku2057]

Actually, 35k$....I'm getting it fully loaded!

[goku2057]

Dude, we must remember that I can change from AWD to RWD on the fly. We all know that RWD is faster after the start.


Also, your car might beat mine in a drag, but there is a reason that mine retails for about 20k more than yours did, I get some of the best racing suspension money can buy, the ability to change from FWD to AWD, to RWD on the fly, as well as a VERY nice clutch, in fact one of the tightest feeling ones in teh stock automotive history.

I also am only using 14lbs of turbo on a 2.5l engine. If I dropped even 1k more into my turbo I would SMOKE you. I figure, if I buy a new turbo, for, say 2k, I can run about 20-25 psi on it, and be pushing about 350-400HP from the wheels.

Yeah, I am that cool.

[Ringo]

Also! With WRD you can use your torq to help you turn, with a 4WD or AWD car you'll have a much harder time turning. I didn't know that the WRX could switch from AWD to RWD.

[goku2057]

The WRX can't, but the WRX STi can. It's amazing what they give you for an extra 10k

Here's some of the basic upgrades from WRX to STi.

-Completely reworked suspension,
-Tighter steering
-Better Transmission, which allows you to go from FWD, to AWD, to RWD on the fly.
-A larger engine, it goes from 2.0, to 2.5
-More psi on the turbo. It goes from about 7, to around 14.



There are others, but I can't think of them right now!

[The Dude]

No the STI cant switch from awd to rwd, the only car that can do that is Nissan Skyline becuse it has the ATTESA-ETS drivetrian. STI is awd just like my car. The STI does have adjustable differentials, you can set it so the front or back wheels get most of the power. But its still split between all 4 wheels. It's called an Adjustable LSD the EVO has almost the exact same thing .When the Talon is complete an STI is going to be a cake walk to beat.

BTW my Talon is pushing 15 PSI right now, with a push of a button I can lower it to 10 PSI

[goku2057]

Actually, I believe it does...

[goku2057]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31868&item=2482040976&rd=1

There is a picture. It's the 20th down on the scroll bar. The one that shows the shifter. It is on the left and back. Says C. Diff. on it. It stands for Drivers Center Control Differential. It allows you to shift the AWD power to where it is needed, the front wheels, all the wheels, or the rear wheels.

[The Dude]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31868&item=2482040976&rd=1

There is a picture. It's the 20th down on the scroll bar. The one that shows the shifter. It is on the left and back. Says C. Diff. on it. It stands for Drivers Center Control Differential. It allows you to shift the AWD power to where it is needed, the front wheels, all the wheels, or the rear wheels.


yes but its not full time rwd. It'ls like 25% fwd and 75% rwd for example. It will not go 0% fwd and 100% rwd like your trying to say. The Skyline launches at full awd, the automatically switch to 100% rwd when traction is no longer an issue. The STI only has adjustable differentials that is completely diffrent. What you are saying is only part true. I wait for you to prove me wrong

[goku2057]

Actually, from what I have been told by an OWNER of an STi, it fully switches it to either of the three. Now if he had a new transmission, I could be wrong, but I don't believe he did.

And, I was thinking about it today, and if I really wanted to put the wood to you, I'd just buy a new WRX and mod the hell out of it. But I'm far to lazy for that. I'm buying the STi not for speed, well, kind of for speed, but mostly for looks, and the prestige of owning an STi. I can't wait to tell people, "I own an STi."

[The Dude]

You and your friend are only have right, There is a huge diffrence between rwd and awd with adjustable differentials

I cant wait to tell people. "I beat STI's"

[goku2057]

*Evil Grin*

Well, now I have a new goal in life. I will make my STi man rape your Talon, even with it's 320 to the wheels.

Edit. I'm still not sure if I'm wrong...Although I very well could be. I plan on driving down to my local Subaru dealer and asking Monday morning.

[Silent Warrior]

that talon will 0wn that sti fo sho...

[Rabunis]

teh civic would pwn you with it's massive 106 hp super engine.

But seriously, it could go either way. If The Dude has a fat enough turbo, the stock STi would be demolished but otherwise the STi would trounce the Talon. Both being AWD would make it an intense race. But I think I'll put my money on The Dude.

[Xer0]

I dunno, the talon maybe faster off the line then the STI, but the STI can most likely handle better then the Talon seeing as to how the dude is just puttin on engine mods to his car. Also, at this point, if the projected numbers from the dudes turbo upgrade are right, then it comes down to who is the better driver because a good driver can compensate for that missing 20 hp. Also, like Goku said, he could just spend a little bit of money and get the STI to have that extra 20 hp, i think i heard somewhere that you can just change the headers and cams and that alone is good for at least 20 hp. Still, like i said, its all up to the driver at this point.

Wait, one more question, The dude, i don't know about the DSM's so i have a question, can your tranny handle 320 stock or are you changing that too?

[The Dude]

Engine mods are only the start, I plan on a full coil over suspension and up gradeing the brakes and motor mounts. Im just naming the power stuff beucse he asked what was faster =/

[goku2057]

Yeah, I was wondering that same thing Xero. And what about your tranny?

[Gopherchux]

they're both good cars, it doesnt really matter which one wins in a race cuz they would destroy average cars anyday

[The Dude]

DSM trannies are very reliable, once I start to make upwards of 300 hp I need an ACT 2100 clutch

[goku2057]

I was talking to a guy today about talons, and he told me that if you put over 300 HP in them, than their engines become very unreliable. Is that true?

[Oddyssey]

First i need to know what kinda of tires they i know stis roll around on street slicks, and the talon doesnt not so right the sti will have better control and start up. Then

specs the sti would win only becuase it has two better than the talon
first it has and extra 90hp which 300 is very nice for a 4 banger, but wouldnt just the talon by its self.
since the sti has on more gear, that have it the option of being the short gear, basicly the 1 first gear on a sti will lay rubber on all four up untill 30 mph not bad for being so short but pealing out isnt the best thing to do in a race costs time. but since those are the specs i see it would be a sti anyday

[goku2057]

What?

[The Dude]

I was talking to a guy today about talons, and he told me that if you put over 300 HP in them, than their engines become very unreliable. Is that true?


your friend does not know shit. DSM's have the same engine as the EVOI-III. The only diffrence being that the EVO came with a 16g turbo. The engine is rated at 276 HP stock. But the DSM's came with the shitty T-25 turbo that holds it back to makes only 210 HP. 400HP can easily be squeezed out this engine and still be used as a Daily Driver.

Don't belive me? http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/2gturbo/

My Talon is also lighter then your STI

[goku2057]

hey now. let's not make this a personal attackj, I was just asking a question.

[goku2057]

Also. Speed can be instilled into any car, but speed is easy to create.

I found this on the STi the other day, found it quite interesting...


If the EVO's chassis is its best attribute, then the STi has the better drivetrain. With more power and torque on tap than the EVO (see dyno graph on page 64) and a more aggressive gearbox, it's impossible to find a dead spot in the Suby's power delivery. It's difficult, in fact, to find a drivetrain more dedicated to going quickly in any other road car. The gears are spaced so closely that the first five are required to accelerate through the quarter mile. In fact, it takes two shifts to get to 60 mph. And it has three--count 'em, that's three--limited-slip differentials making themselves obvious every time the right pedal hits the floor. And when it does, the STi surges forward, nose in the air, with near-musclecar attitude. It offers pony car power delivery with rally car handling. Mashing the pedal at corner exits turns the STi into a Subaru-powered Camaro--which is a hell of a lot more fun than you might imagine (just don't tell GM). The STi is more an exercise in controlling raw power and momentum than in directing a precision machine. It transitions from understeer to oversteer rapidly with the active center diff doing much of the work in deciding where the power goes.

We'll be the first to admit that neither car is a drag racer, but let's face it: If Subaru and Mitsubishi are going to build powerful all-wheel-drive cars and sell them in the land of smoking rubber, somebody is going to try to do a burnout.

The STi, we can report, is the king of this contest. Burnouts, powerslides, drifts, more burnouts--you name it. If it involves brute force and spinning tires, then it's in the STi's repertoire. Launching the car is easy; far easier, in fact, than launching the EVO. Dial in as many revs as you want and feed out the clutch. The result, at any engine speed above 3500 rpm, is spinning tires. Four spinning tires. More revs equal more wheelspin. And it's painfully fast. Zero to 60 in 4.9 seconds. Through the 1,320 in 13.1 seconds at 105 mph. That's .4 seconds quicker to 60 and .3 seconds quicker in the quarter mile than the EVO. Not only that, but the STi feels indestructible. The six-speed box notches solidly between gears with a more hard-edged, mechanical engagement than the EVO's cable-shifted box. This is good, since you'll be shifting more in the STi. What's more, the clutch can be modulated to produce launches which will punish brain cells on a level usually reserved for Naval aviators. And it will do it time after time. No wimpy clutch here, thank you very much.

If you must have the power, then the STi is your car. Nothing short of a Porsche Turbo will outdistance it from a stoplight and it produces a sensation of speed beyond most musclecars, thanks to its prodigious torque and ultra-short gears. The EVO, however, is amazing on different, but equally impressive, terms. Its precision can't be measured by acceleration, turning or braking tests.

[The Dude]

Conclusions

The final count tells the tale. The Mitsubishi and the Subaru took away two categories each, with one tie. And the two categories were decided by the slimmest of margins. The Subaru Impreza WRX STi was the better car on the open road, and the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution performed better on the racetrack. Both registered virtually identical test numbers, blowing away cars costing thousands of dollars more. In our ratings system, the Evo came away the winner by a margin of 0.3 percent. But you can't go wrong with either car. The arrival of the Evo and WRX STi in the U.S. is a wonderful thing for enthusiasts, and it has all the makings of a beautiful rivalry.

In My Opinion...

Asking me to choose between these two is like asking Ben Cartwright who his favorite son was. If I were to spend most of my free time autocrossing or driving mountain roads, I would choose the Evo. However, for weekends spent in a more conservative manner, the Subaru gets the edge. Overall, I would opt for the Subaru because my weekends aren't as wild as they used to be. Maybe I'm getting old. Sorry, Little Joe. — Sam Mitani, International Editor

The Evo, with its quick reflexes, feels like it's set up for Monte Carlo tarmac. The STi, with its higher seat and slower steering, feels ready to tackle Kenya dirt. Which is why I prefer the Subaru. It has fantastic power, it looks more like a rally car, and it wins me over with bits such as its adjustable center diff, which makes the STi come alive on dirt, where rally cars belong. — Andrew Bornhop, Senior Editor

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=592&page_number=5&preview=

[goku2057]

It almost makes me wet myself.

[Rabunis]

bonair

[The Dude]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/data/502/8359back-med.jpg
:hitit: I love this picture, you can see my little bro's MR2 in the reflection

[goku2057]

That is a pretty sweet picture....

And about what we talked about last night....I'm pretty sure I'm getting the 2.5RS....

[The Dude]

That is a pretty sweet picture....

And about what we talked about last night....I'm pretty sure I'm getting the 2.5RS....


Well then, looks like I win

[goku2057]

nah...Looks like you'll get your ass kicke by that 2.5 RS less than a week after I get it. It'll be able to run AT LEAST twice the boost of the STi, and will have about 350 or so HP to the fly wheel. So about 320 to the wheels.

[The Dude]

how much boost are planning on pushing? And on what size turbo?

[goku2057]

I want to be able to push at LEAST 25 psi...But I'll keep it at around 10-15 psi for normal driving.

[The Dude]

I want to be able to push at LEAST 25 psi...But I'll keep it at around 10-15 psi for normal driving.


what size turbo? 25 psi is nuts unless you know how to tune the fuel curve

[goku2057]

Not sure yet. I'm still shopping around.

And like I said. My brother is like Super Mechanic...He's done all this stuff before. He's got me psyched about this now.

[The Dude]

Goku forget subaru and get this:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=39&article_id=1254

300 lbs lighter then the regular evo, bigger turbo and a fucking 0.98g on the skid pad!

[goku2057]

Holy fuck. That's nice. So it's like an upgraded form of the Evo I take it!?

.98 on the ol pad is amazing, in fact, i don't think I have hever seen such a high one...

[The Dude]

Holy fuck. That's nice. So it's like an upgraded form of the Evo I take it!?

.98 on the ol pad is amazing, in fact, i don't think I have hever seen such a high one...

Yeah it comesout this fall, and it only costs $33,000
Look what I got! My new tires in the mail today. Kuhmo ecsta supras 712's High preformance tires.

[goku2057]

Sweet. You got 16's?

[The Dude]

yeah, its going to stay like that for a while, I'll get some rims with them next time

[goku2057]

yeah. Cars look soooo much better with good rims. Part of the reason that my Outback is so PIMPIN. 16 in Alloys. OYu just can't beat that!