Visually impaired gamer sues Sony Online

[Coded-Dude]

Refusal to implement or facilitate changes to make online games more accessible violates Americans with Disabilities Act, suit claims.

It's not uncommon for blind gamers to feel invisible in addition to visually impaired. For instance, when gamer Brandon Cole wrote THQ a letter suggesting changes to make its Smackdown series of WWE wrestling games more accessible to the blind, he received a form letter back thanking him for his appreciation of the game's graphics.

It doesn't help the visually impaired that some of EverQuest II's characters are actually invisible.

But now, one visually impaired gamer has gone beyond simply requesting accessibility features and is demanding them by way of a lawsuit. Last month, disabled gamer Alexander Stern filed suit against Sony, Sony Online Entertainment, and Sony Computer Entertainment America in the United States District Court for the Central District of California. The suit alleges that Sony is violating the Americans with Disabilities Act by failing to implement features to make its games accessible to visually impaired gamers.

The Americans with Disabilities Act states that, "No individual shall be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation."

According to the suit, Sony ignored repeated requests through postal mail and e-mail to come up with reasonable modifications to its games to make them more accessible. The suit, which doesn't mention SOE games by name but appears to focus on massively multiplayer online titles, requests the addition of visual cues to point gamers to their destinations for gamers with "disability impaired visual processing."

The suit also specifies the ways in which other companies have made their games accessible. For instance, Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft allows the use of third-party mods in its game, which has led to the creation of several programs to include accessibility aids in the game. The suit also mentions Pin Interactive's action adventure PC game Terraformers, saying high-contrast 3D graphics modes, an audio compass, and voice-over detailing items collected in the game all serve to make the game more accessible.

Beyond the denial of entertainment, the suit also contends that Sony's actions have caused visually impaired gamers a financial loss. Because Sony runs an official auction site where gamers can sell their in-game items for real money, the suit says Stern's inability to participate in that marketplace is costing him money.

"Sony has constructed the products in a way that is inaccessible to plaintiff; maintains the products in this inaccessible form; and has failed to take any action whatsoever to correct these barriers even after being repeatedly notified of the discrimination that such barriers cause," according to the suit.

Representatives with Sony and Sony Online Entertainment said they don't comment on pending litigation.
Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239339.html)

Its a bit crazy to allege mmo's are discriminating again "handicapped" players

[Freeman_JI]

Case will be thrown out.

Video games in general just are not designed for the vissualy impared.

[Carlos]

Case will be thrown out.

Video games in general just are not designed for the vissualy impared.
Um. Wut? You're saying, that you'd deny accommodation to ME?

So, basically, you're calling me an idiot for being blind, and still playing games?

I'm legally blind, so speak up.

[Segitz]

This is going a bit too far. I know that visually impaired people have a hard time, but you can just go out and sue your way into stuff. Or else, blind people would be allowed to drive cars or go and use a shooting range.

This law (there is a similar one here) states one shall not discriminate against. Is it discrimination if you cannot USE it? I mean, I am not allowed to go into a womens restroom. Do I feel discriminated against?

Second, the law specifically says "of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation"...

I doubt AND hope not that this lawsuit has any chance. Not that I don't want blind gamers to game...

[D3adcell]

Um. Wut? You're saying, that you'd deny accommodation to ME?

So, basically, you're calling me an idiot for being blind, and still playing games?

I'm legally blind, so speak up.

i'm legally blind in one eye, doesn't mean i can't see though just means things in that eye are blurry when i don't wear glasses and don't have my other eye open.

Though this case is about like a really visually impaired person where glasses can't even help apparently.

The case is fucking stupid. It's like saying they are violating the act because people without arms or motor skills to operate a controller are not able to play the games they want.

Life sucks some times and you just have to deal with it, don't make other peoples lives shitty because your life sucks.

[Lucent Beam]

I'm sorry, but this is like saying that Performance Mode in Rock Band (where the chart drops out) is discriminating against a deaf player. Obviously if you can't physically experience a part of the game, then the game is not suited for you. I'm all for making this as accessible as possible to anyone, but this case just doesn't make sense.

[JasonXe]

I mean, I am not allowed to go into a womens restroom. Do I feel discriminated against?

I do ~sniffle

case closed!!

[Freeman_JI]

Um. Wut? You're saying, that you'd deny accommodation to ME?


Um. Wut? I didn't design said product (video game) and yes I would deny you accommodation if say I designed a wheat thrasher (example people) and I the designer believed a visually impaired person could not operate the machine safely. I had to take eye test before being seen as fit for military service if they said my eyes were not good enough could I sue the Army because they are not accommodating me? I'll answer that no.
(Infanry Rifleman Position) [Dont put words in my mouth I'm not saying the blind can't work for the department of defence]


So, basically, you're calling me an idiot for being blind, and still playing games?
I'm legally blind, so speak up.

I'm not sure how you misconstrued

Case will be thrown out.
Video games in general just are not designed for the vissualy impared.

As me saying Carlos is an idiot because he plays video games. I have seen very few game uh make that none that have a graphic render for the near blind. However HL2 does have voice and effects subtitles for the deaf.

Carlos do you plan to take litigious action against the games industry?

[VG Aficionado]

That reminds me of, many moons ago, someone complaining that a DVD featuring a Queen live concert didn't feature a track for the hearing impaired.

That said, I know that Zuma's Revenge (Sony Online game) does have a visual mode for the color-blind.

[Carlos]

i'm legally blind in one eye, doesn't mean i can't see though just means things in that eye are blurry when i don't wear glasses and don't have my other eye open.
Since birth, I have been blind. When I was a child, I wore glasses that helped me see things better. Its not one of those cheapass "pickups" you find in convience stores. Its those glasses that glasses vendors make for you. So, you'd have to go to the doctor and get the specs for the vendor. By my teenage prime, I went and got my cataract surgery. Basically, right now I have one implant in one eye, and the other has contacts. I've said this a few times already.

So, I'm more understanding of this guy than most people give credit for.

Sony's lucky that I'm a huge PlayStation supporter, customer/consumer, and I can see my video games far better than this "blind dude" has. HOWEVER. It does not mean I don't understand where he's coming from, I do. Some games have fonts that are very hard to see. So, I never. Never bother with them. For instance, I watched the Lost Planet launch, because I was interested into buying the game - I discarded that idea the first minute I heard about the lettering problems. Yeah, that little font problem. I avoided Lost Planet due to it. Now, lets say this guy is right. He can't see what he's doing.

Now, keep in mind, I have not played any of the games that are mentioned in that article...but consider what I just said.
Though this case is about like a really visually impaired person where glasses can't even help apparently.
Glasses don't help. There are limits with what and how you can use your glasses. If you're using glasses only for reading books, magazines, etc. You get that spec, but if you're using glasses for "sight seeing" within your immediate environment, distance will be reduced only to a level. You can see so much, but you can't see the whole picture. You are stuck with that spec.

That's just the way it is.
The case is fucking stupid. It's like saying they are violating the act because people without arms or motor skills to operate a controller are not able to play the games they want.

Life sucks some times and you just have to deal with it, don't make other peoples lives shitty because your life sucks.
The best thing Sony could have done, is listened to his requests for a next game. For example, when I started playing more popular games that include "closed captioning" I said to myself: "Thank you, Capcom [or another company]"

Did you know there are more than 40 million people who are supposedly blind? According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_people): "Of the estimated 40 million blind people located around the world, 70–80% can have some or all of their sight restored through treatment."
Um. Wut? I didn't design said product (video game) and yes I would deny you accommodation if say I designed a wheat thrasher (example people) and I the designer believed a visually impaired person could not operate the machine safely.
Then, that's grounds for a lawsuit. Nobody should be denied of suggestion because of discrimination. What you just said is FLAT out discrimination. You just said and I quote: "I the designer believed a visually impaired person could not operate the machine safely."

Basically, you're saying that I can't operate a video game with safety therefore, you're saying that I shouldn't be playing video games. Correct? Really think about this before you type. Because its basically stereotyping me as a idiot - offensive enough for you? No? Alright. I was offended by your comment because you're saying its not safe for me to play a video game if I can't see anything, though, at the same time, you're basically calling me an idiot at the same time. "Dude, are you stupid? If you can't see shit, then don't fucking play, and don't fucking buy my games."

Oh, and your sarcastic retort by saying "Um. Wut?" right back at me didn't help matters.
I had to take eye test before being seen as fit for military service if they said my eyes were not good enough could I sue the Army because they are not accommodating me? I'll answer that no.
(Infanry Rifleman Position) [Dont put words in my mouth I'm not saying the blind can't work for the department of defence]
I'm not going to discuss this, because this is covered under the above comment.
I'm not sure how you misconstrued
Not sure how to respond to this. At all.
As me saying Carlos is an idiot because he plays video games. I have seen very few game uh make that none that have a graphic render for the near blind. However HL2 does have voice and effects subtitles for the deaf.
That's true, not too many games have graphic renders for the blind...And good for valve. Cause that would expand that 40 million to 48 million disabled people, because there are actually eight. Count that. 8 million people who are deaf.
Carlos do you plan to take litigious action against the games industry?
See comment above, I said "no."

[Freeman_JI]

.
Then, that's grounds for a lawsuit. Nobody should be denied of suggestion because of discrimination. What you just said is FLAT out discrimination. You just said and I quote: "I the designer believed a visually impaired person could not operate the machine safely."

When I said accommodation I was using your terminology, what I should have said would be / or in reality what you would see on my Wheat Thrasher 3000 saftey tag / operational manuel. (wonder how far I could flesh this product out :P happy: )

Before operating this machine
With engine running and transmition in neutral performe a visual inspection of the running gear for any linkage faults or debris. Keep hands and fingers clear of running gear at all times. You should never operate this equipment while under the influence of some prescription medications or illicit drugs and alcohol. ect. This device should not be operated by persons under the age of 15....ect.

Back to my original statement I have never said you can't buy my product :) ie not discriminating at all. But your right as you can see above my product is not accomodating to every man woman and child on planet earth.
But there are many products out there like this not being sued. (Thought some are)

what does this have to do with anything? well most every game is simply not designed for Blind people. Just like my product has not been designed for the blind, children, people on some medications, anyone who is under the influence of a substance ect.


Basically, you're saying that I can't operate a video game with safety therefore, you're saying that I shouldn't be playing video games. Correct?

Nope not on the same wavelength.


Really think about this before you type. Because its basically stereotyping me as a idiot - offensive enough for you? No? Alright.

I don’t feel offended at this point in time. But clearly you do see bellow.


I was offended by your comment because you're saying its not safe for me to play a video game if I can't see anything, though, at the same time, you're basically calling me an idiot at the same time. "Dude, are you stupid? If you can't see shit, then don't fucking play, and don't fucking buy my games."

Your words not mine, and again don’t reflect my option. If you’re offended all I can say is you’ll have to deal with it.


Oh, and your sarcastic retort by saying "Um. Wut?" right back at me didn't help matters.

I tend post that way when something caches my attention take it and move on or dwell on it.


I'm not going to discuss this, because this is covered under the above comment.

This is no you would not hire a blind infantry solider


Not sure how to respond to this. At all.

It means you took what I said and derived a different a meaning to what me the author intended.


That's true, not too many games have graphic renders for the blind...And good for valve. Cause that would expand that 40 million to 48 million disabled people, because there are actually eight. Count that. 8 million people who are deaf.

If your passonate enough about this cause you'd best bet would be to make your voice heard to the game publishers. Ie make games more inclusive.

[Carlos]

If your passonate enough about this cause you'd best bet would be to make your voice heard to the game publishers. Ie make games more inclusive.
That's the thing. He already e-mailed Sony asking to include those "disabled" people. What Sony is basically doing is "excluding" his suggestions and requests by alleged discrimination. That was my point here.

That's what this lawsuit is about.

[Coded-Dude]

The lawsuit is baseless. File a class action suit and include every game developer of every genre or call it quits. Sony is not discriminating by making the business decision to not spends thousands of dollars and hundreds of man hours to get a few more sales. Also, we don't know what companies are doing for the seeing/hearing impaired. For all we know there could be tons of R&D teams looking into this, its just not public knowledge.... Anywho, it will be interesting to see how this develops. The only discrimination i can decipher from all of this is the discrimination of the person who filed suit against SOE for mmo's specifically. Why just single out SOE and MMO's?

[Freeman_JI]

That's the thing. He already e-mailed Sony asking to include those "disabled" people. What Sony is basically doing is "excluding" his suggestions and requests by alleged discrimination. That was my point here.

That's what this lawsuit is about.

Hes sueing under

The Americans with Disabilities Act states that, "No individual shall be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation."

The problem is this paragraph it sums up the a perfect utopia world. In reality what manufacturer can create a product that is equally enjoyable no matter who you are and under what conditions you live your life.

If my opinion of "this case will be thrown out" does not hold true then its likely all games going forward will have a manditory Vissually Impared mode.

However I'm not trying to be an arse I just don't think he'll win and not much will change.

[VG Aficionado]

No individual shall be discriminated [...] by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation."

Does that really include videogames? And if it does, does that apply to videogames?

It honestly totally sounds like someone can't get over the fact he can't do some things that aren't even intended for him. Videogames require visual abilities, hence why they're called videogames. I guess you can try and climb a mountain if you have no legs, but aren't you supposed to at least consider you shouldn't, assisted or not?

Just like the previous example on the hearing impaired track of a musical DVD: exactly what are you trying to accomplish?

[GTAce]

I will sue Nintendo cause i cant use the motion controls because of my Spinal Muscular Atrophy, cripples unite!

[VG Aficionado]

The Black Panther Party won't accept me because I'm white. I'm suing too :norris:

[D3adcell]

Ok carlos let me put it with a diifferent analogy. I am a diabetic and had been for about 15 years. When I was a kid I couldn't eat sweets, can't eat cake at a birthday party, no candy bars, nothing. I had to eat on a very strict diet and had to eat even when I didn't want to.

Should I have the ability to sue people who make sweet things because they do not make an equivalent product without a high concentration of carbohydrates or sugar? Should I sue the makers of the insulin I was on because it didn't allow me to eat whenever I wanted like other people could?

Instead I just dealt with it and it's not a big deal. It's stupid to request everyone in the world supports your condition when it's not really viable.


Carlos I also had 'doctor ordered glasses'. Everyone does unless they just need reading glasses.

[iSDK]

I'll just end this thread here and now and direct all toward http://Ablegamers.org/

... seriously just check it out.

[jaxmkii]

when he's done here he should sue magazine publishers and traffic signal enginers as well as artitst.

[Viper]

Suit will be thrown out.

He's filing under the, "The Americans with Disabilities Act states that, "No individual shall be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation."

Which has no jurisdiction over private and proprietary facilities and products. You can't sue a homeowner for not having wheelchair accessibility next to his stair case no more than you can sue a video company for not having viewing impaired accessibility features in their "video" games.


Hey Ryan, check out the viewpoint from that web site you linked.
http://ablegamers.com/general-game-news/Visually-Impaired-Gamer-Sues-SOE-for-Game-Accommodations-AbleGamers-Statement.html

[jaxmkii]

The Black Panther Party won't accept me because I'm white. I'm suing too :norris:

yea and im sueing the collage negro fund!