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View Full Version : GWB Taking Aim at FDR? It is interesting.


HereticPB
01-24-2005, 11:14 PM
The New York Times Week in Review yesterday had a fascinating cover story or front-page story: "From FDR to GWB, Can Anyone Unseat FDR?" and I said, "Hmm, shazam! Something's happening here, folks." In the first place have you noticed that presidential initials are almost the exclusive provinces of liberals? We've had FDR. We had JFK. We had LBJ. But we didn't have any JEC, Jimmy (Earl) Carter. We had no RWR, Ronald Wilson Reagan. We had no GHWB, but we've always had these initials for Democrat liberal presidents and FDR and JFK are the two biggies. But this story yesterday, "From FDR to GWB, Can Anyone Unseat FDR?" I think after all the whacks upside the head the liberals may be starting to pause and think about what is facing them, and I think part of this is Bush is intent to reform Social Security. This is the New Deal as far as they're concerned and that's their whole legacy, don't misunderstand and mistake how important preserving Social Security as FDR designed it is to the liberals' future, and so now they're looking at Bush taking on FDR! That's how they're going to try to position it to the liberal intelligentsia. "He's gonna what? He's going to try to unseat FDR? Why, we can't allow that to happen!"

But the fact on that they're even considering that it's a possibility has caused them pause. Bush delivered a stirring inaugural address, and the media reaction to it was as interesting as the words themselves. I mean, as I went through Friday, in a brilliant monolog, it's unfathomable to me that the paranoia and the controversy a speech extolling the virtues of human freedom and liberty have caused in the American left. Imagine, if you will, the adulation, the adoration, the applause if, say, that message had been delivered by FDR or JFK or even Mario Cuomo. If Mario Cuomo had given that speech why they'd still be having weekend orgasms over it. Can you imagine if Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., had delivered the words in Bush's second inaugural? Why, I mean, they'd be beside themselves with praise. I think that the media has yet to understand. Well, I know that they have yet to understand and appreciate and accept that Bush is a legitimate president. They still believe he's illegitimate, that he represents that "tantrum" thrown by a bunch of two-year-olds that Peter Jennings said on the radio following the 2000 elections, but this piece "From FDR to GWB, Can Anyone Unseat FDR?"

When the New York Times can wake up to a discussion of FDR's New Deal and Bush's new New Deal, even if they're doing it from the prism of fear, you have to realize that reality is setting in on these people. Not all of them, and it may only be a temporary glancing blow. They may still maneuver themselves into utter denial. But how many two-by-four whacks across the head does it take to reach a liberal? For instance, they didn't get it when he was inaugurated the first time. They didn't get it when he dealt with terrorism successfully. They didn't get it when he revived a depressed economy. They didn't get it when he held the House and the Senate in '02. They didn't get it when he won reelection and increased his congressional majorities. They didn't get it when Afghanistan voted. They didn't get it when Ukraine got the vote and voted, and now on the verge of Iraq and its first vote after his vision address, after his resolve on Social Security reform, maybe enough of these two-by-four compaction across the head are starting to get it. There's also a story...where is this?

This is Todd Lindbergh. He's a conservative writer, but this is from SignOnSanDiego.com a San Diego newspaper: "Bush's Complex Personality Confounds Experts." Oh, really? Complex personality? I thought he was a dunce? I thought Bush was an ignoramus and a cowboy? I thought Bush was an intellectual inferior. I thought he was a frat boy. I thought he had no depth or substance. I thought Dick Cheney ran the White House? Now they're all concerned about Bush's "complexity." So, you know, at some point the big picture is going to have to dawn on these people as to what Bush's vision is and what is happening. We're going to have elections in Iraq on Sunday. We've had them in Afghanistan; we had them in Ukraine, and the people there were willing to lose their lives for these elections. You know, by the whacks across the head, I mean, everything that Bush said he's going to do he's done. He went into Afghanistan, rooted the Taliban and Al-Qaeda out. He got rid of Saddam Hussein. He cut taxes. He has put Iran and North Korea in the Axis of Evil. At some point they've got to look at history and realize what's happening, and not from their standpoint. They are looking at history and asking, "Why can't we win?" but I think this piece in the New York Times -- and I only say this because so much of the rest of liberalism takes its lead from the New York Times.

Source: (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_012405/content/truth_detector.guest.html)

plebben
01-25-2005, 03:10 AM
never saw 3 letter initials for Bill Clinton though.

HereticPB
01-25-2005, 05:52 AM
Bill "Bubba" Clinton

Bryan
01-25-2005, 06:17 AM
That will have to do. I don't even know President Clinton's middle name.

And that is interesting. I can't say I ever saw the whole thing as President Bush trying to unseat FDR, though. That notion is a little.. I can't even think of the word.

aerofan113
01-25-2005, 06:52 AM
Jefferson. Its Willaim Jefferson CLinton.

peasantlover
01-25-2005, 07:32 AM
FDR fixed the economy of America in 10 years and ruined it for the next 80 years.. bah

plebben
01-25-2005, 07:53 PM
question: would the people at the time accept anyother solution than FDR's?

HereticPB
01-25-2005, 08:38 PM
Probably. If there was no FDR there would be no Social Security and no taxes!

Bryan
01-26-2005, 04:34 AM
I don't think there was a much more viable solution at the time. When people are starving, you just have to bite the bullet and hope it all works out.

plebben
01-26-2005, 05:37 AM
Probably. If there was no FDR there would be no Social Security and no taxes!

and how does mr bowie expect a nation of americas size to run without cash in form of taxes?
or were you being ironic?

Bryan
01-26-2005, 05:54 AM
Private donations, maybe.

From the Church.

HereticPB
01-26-2005, 06:47 AM
There was no taxes before FDR. There were taxes after FDR. That is all I meant to say.

American got along fine before taxes did you think about that?

Bryan
01-26-2005, 06:51 AM
Are taxes a bad thing?

plebben
01-26-2005, 07:12 AM
the people with money got along well.
I bet the majority that did not have money didnt really do that well though.

HereticPB
01-26-2005, 07:14 AM
In Excess yes they are. As you would have a lot less or no money to save for yourself, your family, or to spend on yourself, your family or others.

Now here comes a liberal poor man speech about helping the poor, etc. Which in moderation should be done but not give people free money or benefits.

Bryan
01-26-2005, 07:28 AM
People don't get free money. There are limits.

I guess I would be willing to suggest that the well-being of people here overshadows the well-being of the people of Iraq.

Call me crazy if you want.

peasantlover
01-26-2005, 07:42 AM
There were taxes Heretic, your facts are a little off. Income taxes were started by the progressive movement, sometime around WWII, and boosted by Woodrow Wilson. They were only 1-2% flat taxes at the time, though, and didnt start ballooning until FDR. There have always been taxes; however, before the progressive movement they were mostly generated from tariffs on foreign imports.

Honestly, though, I think the tariffs worked so much better than income taxes.

peasantlover
01-26-2005, 07:46 AM
the people with money got along well.
I bet the majority that did not have money didnt really do that well though.

No, you really dont understand American culture. Class envy really didnt exist before taxes.. actually, I think taxes did more to create it in America than anything. It didnt exist because almost anyone that was poor had the oppurtunity to become wealthy.. and just about every millionaire in America was raised in a poor family (i.e., Andrew Carnegie).

Taxes have made it much harder for that to happen, because they make it so much harder to create wealth. They dont really do anything to destroy wealth, since the wealthy have the resources to pay less taxes. But those who are not wealthy but would otherwise be able to become wealthy through their own initiative and hard work have a much harder time, because they do not have the resources to avoid taxes.

aerofan113
01-26-2005, 07:48 AM
which is totally true. People always say "but we're helping the Iraqi ppl". La-de-friggin da. Kids in the US are dying of hunger and lack of care. Thats ridiculous. Its a damn shame. Without taxes itd be worse.

Bryan
01-26-2005, 08:30 AM
Millionaires+ are 5% of the country... it isn't all that realistic to assume that anyone could become one.

orcus116
01-26-2005, 08:32 AM
Complaining about what FDR did or did not do the economy over 60 years ago isn't gonna solve anything. And come on I mean Bush isn't exactly helping it either. The guy's spending money left and right. It'd be a miracle if he managed to pull a surplus out of his ass.

peasantlover
01-26-2005, 10:25 AM
Millionaires+ are 5% of the country... it isn't all that realistic to assume that anyone could become one.

I wasnt speaking of realism. I was speaking of possibility. And if you have ever studied the lives of millionaires, you would know that it only takes 3 things to become a millionaire
1. possibility
2. desire
3. determination


since the last 2 are up to the person trying to better himself, I think it is an evil thing when society takes away the first one, basically saying "we have enough rich people, you poor people can stay poor"...


that is exactly what taxes do, too. They dont hurt the rich any - really rich people have assets and tax shelters, they dont have taxable incomes. They dont hurt the poor who are lazy\drug addicts who want to stay poor - they have no income to tax. The only people who are hurt by income taxes are middle class who want to better themselves and poor people who do not want to remain poor.

plebben
01-26-2005, 03:57 PM
Thing is that if your government do charge its people a tax and then spend the money on people who are less fortunate, society as a whole becomes safer and less people are drawn into criminality since the governments make sure there are other alternatives for their survival.
Also a capitalistic system needs people who are very wealthy and those who are poor. If suddenly the whole middle class started making big amounts of money prices would skyrocket because the wealthy people would see the possibility of a nifty profit.
In the end that would eventually mean the middle class becomes the middle class again after a few years as rich.
The capitalistic system automatically straightens out the number of wealthy in relation to middleclass and poor.

HereticPB
01-26-2005, 10:30 PM
peasant thanks for clearing that up History has been my weakness.

Yes, plebben I can see that but on the flipside a Government should not be a mommy to the local public or other public.

plebben
01-26-2005, 11:01 PM
as long as the citizens under that government dont chose to have it that way, ofcourse not.

HereticPB
01-26-2005, 11:10 PM
but most Governments like that are to controlling and the people have no say what so ever. Even with the ability to vote.

LOL Plebben and I are like the Energizer bunny we keep going and going and going.....

plebben
01-27-2005, 03:41 AM
yeah :P
but i must say i think youre a little bit overconfident in your system.
People outside northamerica, europe and aussies in particular, are not brainwashed to believe they are free while living with a nanny governemnts.
Were just as happy, we're very well educated, overall even more than americans on a median... So it cant be that bad, can it?
Its not some fake charade that our governments put up.

your system works, so does mine. And i promise you, if you moved over to where I live you would be just as happy here too. You would also realize that youre preaching predjudice when youre calling it nanny-government.
The point with socialdemocratic societies is for the greater good of everyone.
Yes you do have high taxes. Yes it is harder to become extremly rich.
But then again sometimes people risk everything to get to a point and loose. Instead of seeing them die in the cornerstone of a street the government(the people) pays a little for their chance to recover.
My socialdemocratic politicians have a lot less power that your republican(as in form of government) ones have.

Sandman
01-29-2005, 05:00 AM
I have two things to say:

1. I don't think FDR fucked up the economy. Social Security is a good thing, because not many Americans are responsible, and many of them would be fucked without it.

2. The New Deal didn't get us out of the Great Depression anyways. The war did.

Bryan
01-29-2005, 06:46 AM
I don't think all of it is irresponsibility, as much as it is realism.