Xenon Discussion Thread Part 4

[Matt]

Continuation of the Xenon thread:

Part 1 (http://www.playstation3insider.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1209)
Part 2 (http://www.playstation3insider.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2134)
Part 3 (http://playstation3insider.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2607)

As usual, keep it on-topic.

[NickSCFC]

Xenon will be better than PlayStation 3, discuss.

[Matt]

Xenon will be better than PlayStation 3, discuss.

Heh, just like you to say that. Anyway.....

[Domination]

when i was looking info on XBox 2,
I found this, http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/26/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/

this would be real bad for PS3 if Microsoft can do it.
I hope not but we real see

Definitely a the PSX... I don't get,though. They said XNA was suppose to help do something similiar.

[sub1zero]

I suddenly got a very bad feeling. Whatif R* were to release GTA:SA to the XENON instead of the XBOX (I am not sure or for that matter anyone is sure that GTA:SA is going to be released in any other CONSOLE other than the PS2) but what if it does come on the XENON ?? It took a year for GTA:VC to come to XBOX ?? IF that was to happen won't that boost up the XENON'S or should I say MORON'S sale by atleast 90% ??

[Junox50]

I suddenly got a very bad feeling. Whatif R* were to release GTA:SA to the XENON instead of the XBOX (I am not sure or for that matter anyone is sure that GTA:SA is going to be released in any other CONSOLE other than the PS2) but what if it does come on the XENON ?? It took a year for GTA:VC to come to XBOX ?? IF that was to happen won't that boost up the XENON'S or should I say MORON'S sale by atleast 90% ??

GTA san andreas is coming out for PC also but you said console. So far its only been annouced to be coming for the PS2 and PC later next year but not for Xbox. If Xbox does get it i dont think they will put it on Xenon.

[Marjoh]

I suddenly got a very bad feeling. Whatif R* were to release GTA:SA to the XENON instead of the XBOX (I am not sure or for that matter anyone is sure that GTA:SA is going to be released in any other CONSOLE other than the PS2) but what if it does come on the XENON ?? It took a year for GTA:VC to come to XBOX ?? IF that was to happen won't that boost up the XENON'S or should I say MORON'S sale by atleast 90% ??

I don't think them releasing San Andreas to Xenon would be critical. It won't be a big of a deal. I mean Microsoft persuading consumer to buy their next-gen console at full price just so they can play San Andreas, a year old game that has already sold millions of copies for the PS2, would make them look even more desperate, IMO.

Also, the GTA series is not really known for it's graphics. What I mean is Microsoft pushed the Xbox as the most powerful console in the world, with Dead or Alive 3 to back it up at launch time. And that would bring as back to the "change of plan/startegy" argument.

[Domination]

I suddenly got a very bad feeling. Whatif R* were to release GTA:SA to the XENON instead of the XBOX (I am not sure or for that matter anyone is sure that GTA:SA is going to be released in any other CONSOLE other than the PS2) but what if it does come on the XENON ?? It took a year for GTA:VC to come to XBOX ?? IF that was to happen won't that boost up the XENON'S or should I say MORON'S sale by atleast 90% ??

I don't think them releasing San Andreas to Xenon would be critical. It won't be a big of a deal. I mean Microsoft persuading consumer to buy their next-gen console at full price just so they can play San Andreas, a year old game that has already sold millions of copies for the PS2, would make them look even more desperate, IMO.

Also, the GTA series is not really known for it's graphics. What I mean is Microsoft pushed the Xbox as the most powerful console in the world, with Dead or Alive 3 to back it up at launch time. And that would bring as back to the "change of plan/startegy" argument.

I'm not really sure what Microsoft's plans are as far as game titles go, but I don't think they're going to take the same approach they did this gen by waiting until a developer releases a game for their console. It looks to be that they'll be spreading out their sources to where they can be played in a number of places besides the Xenon. For instance, what the Xbox and Game Cube doesn't get, the PC normally does. By having access to the PC world and the console world, exclusives for one platform may have to be extra secured to remain exclusive for that chosen platform.

[The_One]

M$ is gonna try to dominate some of the Japanese Market with some RPG's next gen, according to previous sources, they already have 33% of the NA gaming market! :shock:. If they can get a big chunk of the Japanese Market (Currently divided mainly between Sony and Big N), then I think M$ would be quite stable in the Console Market.
Another reason cited for the Xbox's lack of success in Japan was that the console was launched nearly two years after the PlayStation 2, which gave Sony's console more than enough time to dominate the market. "We won't fall behind our rivals," Moore said about Microsoft's release plans for the Xbox Next, hinting that the machine may come out in late 2005, alongside or in front of other companies' next-generation consoles. Hmm... Releasing first definately helped, but I don't know if that's all there is to it. We'll see if M$'s change of strategy will work or not... Just like Domination said "I can't wait 'till next-gen" :D.

[Omega Blue]

I suddenly got a very bad feeling. Whatif R* were to release GTA:SA to the XENON instead of the XBOX (I am not sure or for that matter anyone is sure that GTA:SA is going to be released in any other CONSOLE other than the PS2) but what if it does come on the XENON ?? It took a year for GTA:VC to come to XBOX ?? IF that was to happen won't that boost up the XENON'S or should I say MORON'S sale by atleast 90% ??

this has got to be the second most insane thing i've heard (first being Nicks post) it almost doesn't make anysense. Why would R* release such a dated game that Ps2 and PC owners would have already played 2 years before that? and why would you expect that to be a XBox 2 seller? are you out of your mind? do your "special" teachers at school know you've been playing on the computers right after the short school bus drops you off near the library?

As for the XB2 and PC compatibility, you can look at it 1 of 2 ways.

1. XBox 2 will be compatable with PC games.
2. PC will be able to play XB2 games

2 outcomes, XBox 2 sells more because of this, or PC Gamers just upgrade theire PC's and XB2 sales are low. The majority of PC gamers i know would op for the latter, upgrade their PC's and never leave the controllers unless they want to plug in their XBox 2 compatible controllers to their PC's. i see the XB2 loosing sales.

[sub1zero]

All right all right OMEGA. It was just a HUNCH. Thats all. Nothing to get worked about for.

But I have another doubt. Microsoft are stating that XENON can play PC GAMES but PC HARDWARE will soon best the XBOX 2 in near future. If that happens then how will the XBOX 2 emulate PC GAMES ??

[Omega Blue]

All right all right OMEGA. It was just a HUNCH. Thats all. Nothing to get worked about for.

But I have another doubt. Microsoft are stating that XENON can play PC GAMES but PC HARDWARE will soon best the XBOX 2 in near future. If that happens then how will the XBOX 2 emulate PC GAMES ??

Developers write a specific part of the code to low the graphics and such. Given XNA's supposed compatibility prowlessness im sure this shouldn't be that hard of a problem.

They basically add in textures, or a specific XBox 2 engine in the game so it differs, or they just make the PC's use XBox 2 standard graphics only PC's can tune the res higher.

[SunDevil]

Good Bye

[NickSCFC]

PC HARDWARE will soon best the XBOX 2
I'll best you :x

[cpiasminc]

Microsoft are stating that XENON can play PC GAMES but PC HARDWARE will soon best the XBOX 2 in near future.
I don't recall them ever saying that. The article that was linked before said that there would be a separate Xbox2 model that also functions as a PC. As for how it might emulate PC games as PC hardware advances... eventually it simply will not at all be able to do so. Still, the practical performance of PC video hardware as opposed to console video hardware (with respect to the theoretical maximums) is many, many times less on PCs. You can have a GPU that is theoretically 3x as fast as the R500 in Xbox2, and in practice it will still be about half the performance simply because it's on a PC. Windows, for that matter, can easily rob you of 60% of your usable clock cycles.

Here's that short-lived thread.
http://www.playstation3insider.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3560

[sub1zero]

PC HARDWARE will soon best the XBOX 2
I'll best you :x

LOL !! ^^^ Why didn't I know that you may something like that nick. :lol: :lol: :P

But if games started to look better on PC and if PC can emulate XBOX 2 Games then wouldn't Developer be more inclined to develop for the PC which has better GRAPHICS etc

Ultimately wouldn't the DEVELOPERS leave the XENON to die ?? :twisted:

[cpiasminc]

Microsoft are stating that XENON can play PC GAMES but PC HARDWARE will soon best the XBOX 2 in near future.
I don't recall them ever saying that. The article that was linked before said that there would be a separate Xbox2 model that also functions as a PC. As for how it might emulate PC games as PC hardware advances... eventually it simply will not at all be able to do so. Still, the practical performance of PC video hardware as opposed to console video hardware (with respect to the theoretical maximums) is many, many times less on PCs. You can have a GPU that is theoretically 3x as fast as the R500 in Xbox2, and in practice it will still be about half the performance simply because it's on a PC. Windows, for that matter, can easily rob you of 60% of your usable clock cycles.

Here's that short-lived thread I mentioned.
http://www.playstation3insider.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3560

[The_One]

The *beep*?! 60% of CPU cycles being robbed by windows alone?!?! More the reason to use a custom built kernal then window's own kernal :evil:(I suggest everyone to get a little program called "Hare", it utilizes a custome "ghost" kernal that replaces the windows kernal and speeds up your machine by up to 300% :D).
As for that short lived topic... a machine that can play both PC games and XBox games would be too good to be true... So simply put, that article is pure rumour.

[Kesler]

Where can I find this "Hare"

[Omega Blue]

The *beep*?! 60% of CPU cycles being robbed by windows alone?!?! More the reason to use a custom built kernal then window's own kernal :evil:(I suggest everyone to get a little program called "Hare", it utilizes a custome "ghost" kernal that replaces the windows kernal and speeds up your machine by up to 300% :D).
As for that short lived topic... a machine that can play both PC games and XBox games would be too good to be true... So simply put, that article is pure rumour.
it would also be moderatly more expensive, and if a person already owns an XB2 or a PC would likely just pick up a Custom PC or XB2.

[cpiasminc]

The *beep*?! 60% of CPU cycles being robbed by windows alone?!?!
Yeah, among other things, Windows seems to have the brilliant idea of having it's own subsystems handled by software interrupts that are triggered through the thread manager. It's just the very nature of any and all Windows apps to suffer a few dozen thread context switches every second (whether the app is multithreaded or not)... and that just leads to a lot of stalling and wasted clock cycles. Also, the API overhead of Win32 is horrible because it's so ancient and crufty and just having layer after layer built on top of it... It still has old 8088 code sitting in it.

It also has a really pitiful memory manager. Say you have a program that doesn't have a clean shutdown... Windows doesn't clean up the leaked memory for you. It doesn't even free the memory until another program demands it, leading to horrible memory fragmentation, and loads of cache misses.

There was a study some time back with Windows 2000, where they basically calculated on Intel platforms, that you needed a 1.5 GHz CPU to get 500 usable MHz. And of course, that's why Hare's claims of 300% speed boost are not unwarranted, considering it can only be worse with our deeper pipelined, lower IPC, still slow hard drives and RAM, and Windows XP to throw the last bit of salt on the wounds.

[Danji]

I demand that you bring this "Hare" to me. Or give me a link, that would work too. (for now..)

[cpiasminc]

I believe the "Hare" he's referring to is made by these guys...

http://www.dachshundsoftware.com/index.html

Unless he's talking about some other "Hare" that I don't know about.

[The_One]

I believe the "Hare" he's referring to is made by these guys...

http://www.dachshundsoftware.com/index.html

Unless he's talking about some other "Hare" that I don't know about. Yeah, it's that one :D.
Also, the API overhead of Win32 is horrible because it's so ancient and crufty and just having layer after layer built on top of it... It still has old 8088 code sitting in it. Eww... That sounds NASTY :evil:.

[Omega Blue]

I believe the "Hare" he's referring to is made by these guys...

http://www.dachshundsoftware.com/index.html

Unless he's talking about some other "Hare" that I don't know about.
hey does that actually work? if so i need to check that out.

[Marjoh]

Hey guys, according to the newest issue of EGM (December, rumor mill section), Namco is putting Pseudo Interactive, the people responsible for creating the XNA crash demo, in charge of the planned next-gen Ridge Racer title for Xenon.

What caught me is the fact that Ridge Racer was one of the launch title for not only the original Playstation, but it's successor as well, the Playstation2. And it seems that Namco is sticking with this trend by releasing yet another Ridge Racer title for Sony's upcoming handheld as, you guess it, a launch title. And I always thought that they might do the same for PS3.

[DappaDizzle]

i used to think ridge racer was PS excusive but its being made for DS as well have you noticed that franchise isn’t as good as it used to be

[The_One]

I believe the "Hare" he's referring to is made by these guys...

http://www.dachshundsoftware.com/index.html

Unless he's talking about some other "Hare" that I don't know about.
hey does that actually work? if so i need to check that out. Yes it does, I currently use it and it does speed up my slow-azzed 266Mhz comp by quite a big margin :shock:.

[DappaDizzle]

I believe the "Hare" he's referring to is made by these guys...

http://www.dachshundsoftware.com/index.html

Unless he's talking about some other "Hare" that I don't know about.
hey does that actually work? if so i need to check that out. Yes it does, I currently use it and it does speed up my slow-azzed 266Mhz comp by quite a big margin :shock:.

does anyone know the code so i can unlock it

[The_One]

Dude... it doesn't cost that much does it? Sheesh...
On top of that, aren't we getting a little off topic here?

[DappaDizzle]

Dude... it doesn't cost that much does it? Sheesh...
On top of that, aren't we getting a little off topic here?

i dont play for jack now dayz

[The_One]

Dude... it doesn't cost that much does it? Sheesh...
On top of that, aren't we getting a little off topic here?

i dont play for jack now dayz lol, I can see that :lol:. Well, good luck "serial finding" :P.

Alright peeps... let's get back on topic :roll:.

[Junox50]

So has microsoft yet confirmed they are offically going with HD-DVD?

[kevindenoyette]

I am fairly sure they haven't.

[Domination]

Bill speaks out Jan 5, 05 about Xenon


The Consumer Electronics Show has confirmed that Microsoft chairman Bill Gates is set to give a pre-show keynote speech in Las Vegas on January 5th next year - with a public announcement of Xbox 2 widely expected.

Gates will speak on Wednesday, January 5th at 6.30pm PST, the night before the opening of the CES event - which is the largest trade show of any description in North America, and is expected to attract 130,000 professionals from 110 countries over its three-day span.

The Xbox 2 announcement, which was originally rumoured to be planned for the Game Developer's Conference earlier this year, is now hotly tipped to feature in Gates' keynote, after the GDC announcement turned out to be regarding Microsoft's XNA development platform.

Gates has always taken a direct interest in the Xbox project, and originally planned to announce Microsoft's entry into the console market in his CES keynote in 2000; the announcement was ultimately delayed to the Game Developers Conference that year, but Gates used his CES keynote a year later to show off a near-final design for the system and exhibit early game software, including Munch's Oddysee and Malice, for the first time.

Many of Microsoft's key game development partners already have early versions of Xbox 2 development hardware, with the platform - codenamed Xenon - thought to be based on a multi-processor design using IBM's Power5 CPU architecture and ATI's next-generation Radeon graphics unit.

Source (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=4972)

Where does this put the others? I'm not entirely sure, but late 05 continues to look more likely for the Xenon, which comes to no surprise here. Let's see those specs Bill!!!

Next-gen is going to be a sight to see. :)

[The_One]

Specs specs specs *drools* :D. Can't wait to see XBox 2 in action :D.

[Omega Blue]

*Yawn*...*rubs eyes*...*starts falling back asleep and snores*....*wakes up instantly*...oh yeah the XBox 2...hmm...or the next Dreamcast as i like to think of it...

[Marjoh]

I sure hope they would broadcast the speach. Or at least online.

[The_One]

*Yawn*...*rubs eyes*...*starts falling back asleep and snores*....*wakes up instantly*...oh yeah the XBox 2...hmm...or the next Dreamcast as i like to think of it... Hey, even you can't deny how good those games on the dreamcast looked when it was released :D. Xbox 2 will certainly show us what the PS3 will be capable of... and more :D.

[Darknight]

*Yawn*...*rubs eyes*...*starts falling back asleep and snores*....*wakes up instantly*...oh yeah the XBox 2...hmm...or the next Dreamcast as i like to think of it... Hey, even you can't deny how good those games on the dreamcast looked when it was released :D. Xbox 2 will certainly show us what the PS3 will be capable of... and more :D.

I agreed with you up till the "and more"... :lol:

[The_One]

It'll show us what the PS3 will be capable of... AND it'll show us how it'll fail miserably :lol: (Alright, it was a REALLY lame joke :P).

[Omega Blue]

i want to attend the speach, i want to throw rubber Penguins at Bill Gates while wearing an Apple costume.

[xbdestroya]

Omega I don't know if they'll let you into the conference like that, but looks like you've got a good line on a possible Holloween costume. :wink:

i want to attend the speach, i want to throw rubber Penguins at Bill Gates while wearing an Apple costume.

[megadrive]

more screens of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for PC. it's also coming to Xbox 2


http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/art/obliv/obliv04B.jpg
http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/art/obliv/obliv02B.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/559/559265/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion-20041022095721109.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/559/559265/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion-20041022093606055.jpg

remember this is only the PC version, probably running on Radeon X800 or GeForce 6800.

Xbox2 and PS3 will be alot more powerful than thus, capable of alot more.


-
in-game images

http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/art/obliv/obliv04B.jpg
http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/art/obliv/obliv02B.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/559/559265/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion-20041022095721109.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/559/559265/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion-20041022093606055.jpg



gamespy preview:
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion/558955p1.html


this is not even first-gen Xbox 2 level since it's not running on Xbox 2 CPU+VPU, so I expect alot more from Xbox 2 exclusive games.

[Domination]

It kinda resembles something from this gen and bext gen. It looks good, though.

[kevindenoyette]

I think the light source is way too ambiguous to be convincing, what's with the glowing armor/rocks, there's no properly defined lightsource, looks weird. Good stuff though, trees don't look that good.

[megadrive]

some older screens:

http://img23.exs.cx/img23/1903/es3oblivion03.jpg
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/2643/es3oblivion04.jpg
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/1944/es3oblivion06.jpg
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/3484/es3oblivion08.jpg
http://img40.exs.cx/img40/143/es3oblivion10.jpg
http://img56.exs.cx/img56/8132/es3oblivion11.jpg

[Domination]

I think the light source is way too ambiguous to be convincing, what's with the glowing armor/rocks, there's no properly defined lightsource, looks weird. Good stuff though, trees don't look that good.

Um... Doesn't metallic armor suppose to glow? :? I thought the lighting was done quitre nicely. The only thing I found wrong with them was the up close shots: they look too current gen. Of this can be excused since these are running on early developement tools, likely for the Xenon.

[The_One]

Some of those screens look WAY too aliased, however, that may be caused by the magazine itself.

[Junox50]

Does anybody think Microsoft will be choosing Blu Ray to support Xbox 2?

[Domination]

Does anybody think Microsoft will be choosing Blu Ray to support Xbox 2?

It's almost a definite NO for reasons that I would prefer to avoid right now.

[Junox50]

Does anybody think Microsoft will be choosing Blu Ray to support Xbox 2?

It's almost a definite NO for reasons that I would prefer to avoid right now.

Why is that? You can say it, speak your mind.

[The_One]

Does anybody think Microsoft will be choosing Blu Ray to support Xbox 2?

It's almost a definite NO for reasons that I would prefer to avoid right now.

Why is that? You can say it, speak your mind. Yeah, I would like to hear the reasons too :P.

[Domination]

E3 is next year, which means the Xenon is close to complete. Installing Blu Ray right now for a late year launch may jump the cost of the Xenon up. If Microsoft is planning to cut cost, this would be defeating the purpose. It's a little different for Sony because they are the ones behind Blu Ray.

[The_One]

Good point... On top of that, if M$ wanted to use Blu-Ray, they'd have to pay license fee to Sony for it do they not? Also, if Blu-Ray uses VC9 codec (or whatever it was called), then Sony would also have to pay M$ license fees too... Man, the paying is going in circles :lol:.

[Junox50]

Dang, Xbox 2 looks like its going to start off good but then when PS3 comes it looks like its gonna crap all over it.

No Harddrive
HD-DVD CD with less space than blu ray
Might not be backwards compatible

PS3 seems like it will have everything,except maybe the HDD, thats still up in the air.

How does Microsoft expect to compete next gen with a weaker console with less than the original Xbox?The other Xbox atleast had something to compete with, Xbox 2 wont have much going for it IMO.

[High Lander]

Matt Casamassina, IGN Editor, has just said that Xenon will be from 15 to 20 times more powerful than XBOX.

I beg your pardon, but this is just TOO LITTLE, since Sony is aiming PS3 to be 500 times more powerful than XBOX.

At the same time, if Xenon will use G5´s PPC (tweaked), and regular RAM... and GPU like R500, it´s indeed close to the true... and PS3 will indeed emulate it... poor Bill...


I hope XENON be more than 15 XBOX... or Sony will urinate on it, and without a good competitor, may be we don´t have people digging the full Cell power to program it...

[pc999]

Can you give a LINK to us?

[The_One]

Can you give a LINK to us? About what? Xenon being only 15-20 more powerful then XBox? Sounds reasonable, since even Deadmeat himself said that the Xenon will most likely produce a mere 32GFLOp/s, as compared to XBox which crunches out a mere 3.1 GFLOp/s.

Also, last I heard, Sony said that they are aiming to make the PS3 300 times more powerful then PS2, not 500.

[pc999]

I dont said that it is not reasonable, acording to EA is right, I just asked for a link so I can get all the info.
BTW now you belive in Deadmeat?

[High Lander]

I got this info at UOL (Biggest and VERY trusted ISP in Brazil)... it´s in portuguese, so won´t help you... http://jogos.uol.com.br/ultnot/multi/ult530u2608.jhtm

You can use a web translator :wink:

But you can try and find it at www.ign.com

It also says that Revolution will arrive in USA on september, 2006 (yes, six)

[The_One]

I dont said that it is not reasonable, acording to EA is right, I just asked for a link so I can get all the info.
BTW now you belive in Deadmeat? No, I'm using Deadmeat's own words against him :lol:. He's a Billy GAYtes fanboy, so whatever he says about the Xenon would probably be the HIGHEST possible specs, so using the highest possible specs to compare to the 3.1GFLOp/s XBox sounds all find and dandy to me :D (And puts the Xenon to shame too :P).

[Domination]

Dang, Xbox 2 looks like its going to start off good but then when PS3 comes it looks like its gonna crap all over it.

No Harddrive
HD-DVD CD with less space than blu ray
Might not be backwards compatible

PS3 seems like it will have everything,except maybe the HDD, thats still up in the air.

How does Microsoft expect to compete next gen with a weaker console with less than the original Xbox?The other Xbox atleast had something to compete with, Xbox 2 wont have much going for it IMO.

I don't believe the Xenon is going to be this inferior console that won't be able to compete -- even if these things aren't added. That would truely be a surprise if it was. I believe it'll be superior in its own right, that is IF the picture turns out the way it is looking right now. Hell, I think jointing this thing to PC gaming may be a clever idea if it goes well.

Also, we really don't know how powerful any of these console will be or who will be more powerful in the end. We only have a hunch that it could be the PS3 because not only is it releasing later than the Xenon, but Sony's ambitions are a lot higher than the others.

I don't think the PS3 is going to have an HDD at all; it's way too expensive and very little people actually take advantage of them. My guess is a memory stick (which is better than an HDD, in its own way, IMO) and some kinda software memory or something specifically for game saves. Again, that is only a guess. We could end up with neither.

[pc999]

I got this info at UOL (Biggest and VERY trusted ISP in Brazil)... it´s in portuguese, so won´t help you... http://jogos.uol.com.br/ultnot/multi/ult530u2608.jhtm

You can use a web translator :wink:

But you can try and find it at www.ign.com

It also says that Revolution will arrive in USA on september, 2006 (yes, six)

Thanks I am portuguese :wink:


No, I'm using Deadmeat's own words against him . He's a Billy GAYtes fanboy, so whatever he says about the Xenon would probably be the HIGHEST possible specs, so using the highest possible specs to compare to the 3.1GFLOp/s XBox sounds all find and dandy to me (And puts the Xenon to shame too ).

Nice tactic, but first you need to ensure that he can not say lower than the real thing, if not, like now, it fails, BTW in B3D some one had make the maths ( acording to the leak ) and posted 60/80 GF for the CPU, I can not say that he is right but you got the idea...

[cpiasminc]

Probably worth mentioning in regards to Xenon --


ATI tapes out 90nm R5xx chip
ATI has completed its design for the upcoming R5xx series of graphics chips. The chips will be the company's first to support Shader Model 3.0, and may be the company's first 90nm parts.

So claims a Goldman Sachs report cited by Beyond3D, issued after last week's analyst meeting at which ATI apparently confirmed the chip family will be released in H1 2005.

The design has now taped out and been sent to ATI's fabrication partner, TSMC, for an initial production run using the fab's 90nm process, according to information received by Goldman Sachs separately. The tape-out has subsequently been confirmed by ATI sources cited by Xbit Labs. The ATI mole also confirmed the decision to use TSMC's 90nm process, though company CEO Dave Orton has publicly indicated that that was the chip maker's goal.

The new core will be compatible with G-DDR 4, which ATI is said to expect to appear during the latter part of the year, and support memory clocks of up to 2.4GHz (doubled up from 1.2GHz). ATI was believed to be submitting the technology to JEDEC, the memory standards body, this quarter.

The part is also likely to support HyperMemory, ATI's 're-invention' of a key element of the original AGP bus specification which allowed the graphics chip to use main memory as well as on-card video RAM.

Source : TheRegister (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/03/ati_tapes_out_r5xx/)


Would have been nice if they could have gone farther into DX10 territory, but no chance of that the rate Microsoft is plodding along on that task.

[The_One]

Interesting... 90nm Graphic chip set :D. The future looks bright :mrgreen:.
How is the development of DX10 by the way?

[cpiasminc]

How is the development of DX10 by the way?
Based on the overall lack of anything being said even by Microsoft employees in the DirectX dept. blogs... I'd have to guess that it's hardly gotten anywhere at all beyond maybe a few features (or more specifically, lack of features like deprecation of fixed-function and being driven entirely by shaders). Last I heard, the VS and PS 4.0 specs are still living documents... although that was a long time ago they said that, and have said nothing since.

[Domination]

That means the Xenon will be fully functional at E3 -- at least a prototype. The speed is kinda low, though, but that never really stopped a console. Now, all we have to do is wait until they show some footage or something.

[The_One]

Didn't M$ say they'll release some info during January? Maybe... JUST MAYBE we'll get to see some live footages from a Xenon, or at least a Dev Kit emulation would be nice :).

[Domination]

Didn't M$ say they'll release some info during January? Maybe... JUST MAYBE we'll get to see some live footages from a Xenon, or at least a Dev Kit emulation would be nice :).

J. Allard said he wouldn't say nothing else about the Xenon until 2005. So, Xenon info could come as soon as January if they want to get the hype rolling-in before Sony starts lighting the fireworks.

[Rallyracr420]

E3 is getting a little too close to hear anything major. If MS or Sony were to leak any details before E3, it would just give the other company a chance to counter it with something bigger and better.

I expect a total media blackout on Xenon until E3 in order to keep Sony from getting any quick ideas. I also expect Sony to be quiet on the PS3 so 1) They can focus the spotlight on the PSP and 2) MS doesn't get any quick ideas.

[xbdestroya]

Well I don't know, rumor is January 5th is the day we're all going to learn something about the next XBox.

Provided the link below for those who might be interested 8)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mmedia/display/20041019030510.html

[Domination]

I forgot all about that. I posted it in the Xenon thread awhile back.

[Domination]

Xbox 2 hardware begins to shape up

MICROSOFT'S XBOX 2 hardware is starting to come together, according to reports, as final graphics details are thrashed out.

Sources have told us that ATI is now starting to roll out the R500 part which will be the basis of Xbox 2, ahead of the machine's launch on January 5 at the Consumer Electronics Show.

R500 is a Shader Model 3.0 part, and will be similar to the R520 part that will be its next generation PC graphics chip. The tape out will be a relief to developers, who have been working on the 9800 class hardware that shipped in the Xbox 2 development kits.

A spokesman for Nvidia told the INQ that he had had numerous requests from Xbox developers for GeForce 6800 cards, since coders were eager to start work on SM3.0 routines, regardless of the final render target.

The tape out of R500 - which has been delayed, we are told, fairly substantially - means that Microsoft's coders now face a frantic 2 months of coding to create demo routines to make the most of the graphics hardware, so that they can wow the Las Vegas crowds.

We are hearing conflicting reports about backwards compatibility of the Xbox 2 hardware with Xbox 1, which appears to be one of the reasons for the delay. One camp is telling us that ATI is having a hard time making Xbox software work because of all the Nvidia-specific routines that were programmed in games.

Another source is telling us that Nvidia is being more than a little awkward about releasing details of how its chips work to its rivals, and that Microsoft is sitting awkwardly in the middle. The lacerations of pens on paper were rumoured to be coming from the offices of m'learned fiends.

The Xbox 2 deal that Microsoft has with ATI is very different from the one it put in place with Nvidia for the original machine. Microsoft pays Nvidia a flat rate for each chip it supplies for the Xbox, a figure which has stayed unchanged since the machines launch. As chip manufacturing prices have come down, this has enabled Nvidia to rake the cash in as it makes a huge profit on each chip. Realising its mistake, Microsoft is fabricating its Xbox 2 graphics chips itself, and just paying a license fee to ATI for the chip design - a far less lucrative deal.

A spokesman for ATI told us that we should talk to Microsoft about Xbox 2, and declined to comment on the status of the company's progress with the R500 design. A Microsoft spokeswoman told us that the company wouldn't comment on speculation about the hardware in Xbox 2. Nvidia told us that it was happy to be working exclusively on its next-generation PC hardware. Get it? Got it. Good.


source (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19559)

I'm assuming we will see some demos on January 5 for the Xenon. :)

It also looks as if the Xenon isn't going to be backwards compatible. That really isn't a surrprise since iNvidia were the one's to work on the first Xbox. You would almost have to infringe their patents to get positive results.

[The_One]

No backward compatibility? That sucks :(.
Realising its mistake, Microsoft is fabricating its Xbox 2 graphics chips itself, and just paying a license fee to ATI for the chip design - a far less lucrative deal. I never knew M$ owned their own Chip Fabbing Plant :shock:.

Demo's for Xenon in January... Then PS3 info in March... Can't wait 'till next year!! :mrgreen:

[cpiasminc]

I never knew M$ owned their own Chip Fabbing Plant :shock:.
They don't... unless they've bought out some company that had one of their own. If MS had built one of their own, we would have heard about it considering it costs billions to build one... unless it's extreeeeeeemely low capacity. I know my university had their own fab facility, but it is so small and so low capacity that, at best, you can get about 900 GPUs produced (of R420 die size) in a full year of production.

My best guess is that this is referring to MS purchasing a contract for a fab partnership with some company like UMC or TSMC... Well, I've heard a lot of disconcerting news about companies who exclusively work in the business of foundry alliances as far as supporting new process technologies and extremely large designs. That's why companies like IBM/Motorola/Hyundai/TI all do fab partnerships to make some extra money, and promise a little better reliability.

[Domination]

I never knew M$ owned their own Chip Fabbing Plant :shock:.
They don't... unless they've bought out some company that had one of their own. If MS had built one of their own, we would have heard about it considering it costs billions to build one... unless it's extreeeeeeemely low capacity. I know my university had their own fab facility, but it is so small and so low capacity that, at best, you can get about 900 GPUs produced (of R420 die size) in a full year of production.

My best guess is that this is referring to MS purchasing a contract for a fab partnership with some company like UMC or TSMC... Well, I've heard a lot of disconcerting news about companies who exclusively work in the business of foundry alliances as far as supporting new process technologies and extremely large designs. That's why companies like IBM/Motorola/Hyundai/TI all do fab partnerships to make some extra money, and promise a little better reliability.

That's exactly what they're doing. I remember reading about this a few months ago. TSMC will be fabricating their chips.

[Domination]

The next-generation Xbox console may come in three different versions, according to a report today which claims that the firm plans to launch versions with and without a hard drive in 2005, and a fully functional PC / Xbox 2 combination in 2006.

Technology website The Inquirer reports that an NDA'd presentation given by Microsoft to analysts and market researchers in the UK pointed to the existence of three hardware versions, with two of them launching next autumn.

Xbox Next and Xbox Next HD would largely be functionally identical, but the latter of the pair features a hard drive and offers increased functionality as a result - which could be anything from Xbox backward compatibility (which the basic model could not offer due to the lack of a hard drive) to media jukebox functions or TIVO-style video recording.

In itself, that's not an entirely unlikely scenario, and indeed, Sony is expected to offer two different models of PlayStation 3 as well - one a basic "games only" device, and another with a hard drive and extended media centre functionality.

Indeed, Microsoft has already told developers not to rely on the presence of a hard drive for their games, but has curiously failed to rule out the possibility that a drive could be present. Theories for this range from an internal debate at Microsoft about the cost to benefit ratio of the hard drive, through to the remote possibility of the hard drive being sold as an optional extra - on balance, the idea of two versions of Xbox 2, with and without hard drive, seems eminently more reasonable.

The third version of the Xbox being touted by today's reports, however, is a rather more unexpected beast - titled Xbox Next PC, it combines the Xbox 2 with an entry-level PC which would run a media-focused verison of Windows, run standard PC software and games, and include a CD burner, wireless keyboard and mouse.

This system would not launch until Autumn 2006, and aside from the question about whether it really exists at all or not (a similar system which integrated PC functionality into the Xbox was widely reported on about three years ago, but never saw the light of day and may have simply been an elaborate hoax), there's also a major question mark over how such a system would work - since the Xbox 2 is based on PowerPC G5 processors, which won't run the Windows operating system, let alone PC games.

It's possible that a version of Microsoft's VirtualPC software, which allows Apple Macintosh users to run Windows operating systems under emulation on their PowerPC based systems, could be used to provide at least basic functionality - or PC hardware could be built into the console alongside the existing Xbox hardware, driving costs up but providing much better performance and reliability.

Either way, the possibility of multiple versions of Xbox Next will certainly make Bill Gates' keynote speech at CES in early January, where he's expected to publicly unveil the console, even more interesting.

Source (http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=5435)

I find the Xenon with just the HDD a little ridiculous if this happens to be true. If they aren't planning on using it as an advantage to developers, then why not just make it an add-on? :? The PC hybrid sounds good, though.

[amod20002004]

Yes but don’t you think that why any one will buy xbox2 with pc compatible. Guys from thenextbox.com are saying that it will cost more than 400$. Why should I pay more than say 400$ for a feature which I already own.

[ainsley]

I find the Xenon with just the HDD a little ridiculous if this happens to be true. If they aren't planning on using it as an advantage to developers, then why not just make it an add-on?

Agreed.

Yes but don’t you think that why any one will buy xbox2 with pc compatible. Guys from thenextbox.com are saying that it will cost more than 400$. Why should I pay more than say 400$ for a feature which I already own.

Agreed. I think the vanilla xbox 2 will sell and the others wont.

[xbdestroya]

When I first read this article today I didn't think much of it, just kind of took it to be 'Microsoft's getting ready for war,' kind of a thing. Of course, we know Sony is too. 8)

BUT, then I read this, an article analyzing that one.

Let me know what you guys think.

"Here Comes Vader"
Ed Stroligo - 11/7/04

The Evil Empires are getting into the PC business.

Just to refresh your memories, here's what the architecture of the XBox2 is supposed to look like. Maybe multiple 3.5GHz processors is a pipedream, but IBM can make 2.5GHz processors today, and that isn't going to look too shabby against either Intel or AMD dual cores.

Here's what we said about the possibility of this nine months ago:

While we've all been looking at Intel and AMD (with an occasional glance at Via), somebody else could be sneaking up from behind.

It's called the XBox2.

Stop thinking you're you, and pretend you're one of your Joe Sixpack friends.

Wouldn't an XBox2 that could do a few PC things be good enough for them?

Who is backing XBox2? Well, there's Microsoft. And there's IBM.

IBM doesn't really have much of a stake in the PC industry. It wouldn't have much to lose from a revolution that sent the big box into the historical dustbin.

Microsoft doesn't any real stake in the heavy iron of the computer hardware industry, either. So long as it gets its money for an OS and some kind of Office; it's happy.

One thing both parties have is money. Lots of money. Microsoft could buy AMD out of petty cash and barely notice it. IBM hasn't been passing around the hat, either, and I bet there are a few would-be Darth Vaders in the company still traumatized by IBM losing the PC market in the late eighties, and might want to play a little "Empire Strikes Back."

They could afford to lose a lot of money trying to make XBox2 a new PC standard for the average Joe.

If these two get together, if you're Intel, be very, very afraid.

This is not to say that they will do it, or probably will do it, or even just may decide to take on Intel and the way things are today in the PC world.

It is to say that XBox2 would put them in position to do it if they so chose.

The PC world is much different today than it was when the initial XBox came out. Not too many people were saying they had enough PC power back then.

What are they saying now?

It is something to keep an eye on over the next eighteen months or so.

Indeed, it was.

Yes, late 2006 is a long ways away. Yes, neither MS nor IBM have admirable track records selling consumer computers/computer components, and may not give such products a full push. Yes, this might end up looking a little underpowered two years from now (but try to say with a straight face that three multi-GHz processors and a 500MHz GPU isn't enough for Grandma).

But if you're Intel floundering around, of whom are you going to be seriously scared? A company on German taxpayer life-support, or two of the biggest companies in the computer world? One of them has billions and billions of dollars it doesn't even know what to do with. The other is just IBM.

Jeez, just how often do you see Intel in the role of being the little guy?

Maybe this is why MS has lately been so nicey-nice to everyone mad at it, throwing bushels of money around to settle monopolistic disputes and suits. It plans on playing some serious Monopoly soon.

And if this is enough to make Intel execs defecate water, what about AMD?

Ed

This article is from overclockers.com, a website geared completely towards the PC world, but I think because of that they have a pretty good/fresh take on it. After all, both companies would have nothing to lose and everything to gain by completely eliminating both Intel, AMD, and the whole x86 world we live in.

Of course Cell's kind of goign for the same thing. With Cell though, even if that sort of 'conquer-the-world' strategy doesn;t pan out, it's still going to be in all of Sony's (and Toshiba's) electronics. But what about IBM? I'd LOVE to know which one of the two camps they prefered to win. After all, they're the only company that's going to have any real insights into both...

[Rallyracr420]

I think the XBox Next PC will be pretty cool, however I don't see many people buying it. But then again, I don't think it will ever be meant as a high-volume item...just more of a product that will be available to counter anything that Sony is willing to pull out of their sleeves.

The biggest seller will be the cheapest system. Since HDs won't be standard, a don't imagine many developers will even attempt to spend time making software to take advantage of it.

Sony's biggest opportunity here is to find a way to get mass storage on every PS3.

EDIT: I think its also funny how MS promoted the original XBox as a in-no-way-whatsoever-is-this-a-computer--its-only-for-games console. And now they've completely turned themselves around.

[Domination]

When I first read this article today I didn't think much of it, just kind of took it to be 'Microsoft's getting ready for war,' kind of a thing. Of course, we know Sony is too. 8)

BUT, then I read this, an article analyzing that one.

Let me know what you guys think.

"Here Comes Vader"
Ed Stroligo - 11/7/04

The Evil Empires are getting into the PC business.

Just to refresh your memories, here's what the architecture of the XBox2 is supposed to look like. Maybe multiple 3.5GHz processors is a pipedream, but IBM can make 2.5GHz processors today, and that isn't going to look too shabby against either Intel or AMD dual cores.

Here's what we said about the possibility of this nine months ago:

While we've all been looking at Intel and AMD (with an occasional glance at Via), somebody else could be sneaking up from behind.

It's called the XBox2.

Stop thinking you're you, and pretend you're one of your Joe Sixpack friends.

Wouldn't an XBox2 that could do a few PC things be good enough for them?

Who is backing XBox2? Well, there's Microsoft. And there's IBM.

IBM doesn't really have much of a stake in the PC industry. It wouldn't have much to lose from a revolution that sent the big box into the historical dustbin.

Microsoft doesn't any real stake in the heavy iron of the computer hardware industry, either. So long as it gets its money for an OS and some kind of Office; it's happy.

One thing both parties have is money. Lots of money. Microsoft could buy AMD out of petty cash and barely notice it. IBM hasn't been passing around the hat, either, and I bet there are a few would-be Darth Vaders in the company still traumatized by IBM losing the PC market in the late eighties, and might want to play a little "Empire Strikes Back."

They could afford to lose a lot of money trying to make XBox2 a new PC standard for the average Joe.

If these two get together, if you're Intel, be very, very afraid.

This is not to say that they will do it, or probably will do it, or even just may decide to take on Intel and the way things are today in the PC world.

It is to say that XBox2 would put them in position to do it if they so chose.

The PC world is much different today than it was when the initial XBox came out. Not too many people were saying they had enough PC power back then.

What are they saying now?

It is something to keep an eye on over the next eighteen months or so.

Indeed, it was.

Yes, late 2006 is a long ways away. Yes, neither MS nor IBM have admirable track records selling consumer computers/computer components, and may not give such products a full push. Yes, this might end up looking a little underpowered two years from now (but try to say with a straight face that three multi-GHz processors and a 500MHz GPU isn't enough for Grandma).

But if you're Intel floundering around, of whom are you going to be seriously scared? A company on German taxpayer life-support, or two of the biggest companies in the computer world? One of them has billions and billions of dollars it doesn't even know what to do with. The other is just IBM.

Jeez, just how often do you see Intel in the role of being the little guy?

Maybe this is why MS has lately been so nicey-nice to everyone mad at it, throwing bushels of money around to settle monopolistic disputes and suits. It plans on playing some serious Monopoly soon.

And if this is enough to make Intel execs defecate water, what about AMD?

Ed

This article is from overclockers.com, a website geared completely towards the PC world, but I think because of that they have a pretty good/fresh take on it. After all, both companies would have nothing to lose and everything to gain by completely eliminating both Intel, AMD, and the whole x86 world we live in.

Of course Cell's kind of goign for the same thing. With Cell though, even if that sort of 'conquer-the-world' strategy doesn;t pan out, it's still going to be in all of Sony's (and Toshiba's) electronics. But what about IBM? I'd LOVE to know which one of the two camps they prefered to win. After all, they're the only company that's going to have any real insights into both...

Couldn't the very same also apply to Sony? I would think so since they are a hardware company.

[xbdestroya]

Yeah, I don't doubt the same could apply to Sony. That article wouldn't have dealt with Sony since that site doesn't deal with consoles, but that's why I'm interested to know where IBM thinks the chips are going to land - after all, they're the only company with insight into both strategies.

[xbdestroya]

Yeah, I don't doubt the same could apply to Sony. That article wouldn't have dealt with Sony since that site doesn't deal with consoles, but that's why I'm interested to know where IBM thinks the chips are going to land - after all, they're the only company with insight into both strategies.

[The_One]

I think the XBox Next PC will be pretty cool, however I don't see many people buying it. But then again, I don't think it will ever be meant as a high-volume item...just more of a product that will be available to counter anything that Sony is willing to pull out of their sleeves. Agreed. If PSX with it's insanely low price tag (Nowadays... not the initial release price) still isn't selling well, what are you gonna expect from a XBox and PC hybrid that's gonna cost even more? My bet is that it's just to counter the "Server" version of PS3 (If it even exists... probably just a remour though).

[amod20002004]

Yes, but don’t you think that why anyone will buy ‘Pc xbox2’ when in reality they already own a descent pc.

[xbdestroya]

Well, what if they DON'T own a decent PC? I don't want to pick bones, but if the XBox 2 really does have three dual-core Power chips running at 3+ Ghz, that's going to be an incredible 'PC' system. Not to mention the graphics. But whatever, I'm a build-it-yourself guy, and not an XBox fan to boot, so it's not my cup of tea.

I'd gain much more satisfaction from Cell being the awesomest chip ever and Wintel meeting their deaths through that.

I'm really not counting on either of the above scenarios though.

[amod20002004]

I think this news is not official. Isn’t it?

[xbdestroya]

It's supposedly from a product plan slide of Microsofts from a couple of months ago. So, it is official in a way, but of course products can change all the time, so if we never saw the PC-Box, or even an HD/non-HD XBox, I wouldn't be surprised.

[stanDarsh]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20041112l.jpg

[megadrive]

http://cube.ign.com/mail.html?fromint=1



Zelda, Revolution, Xbox 2
i have a quick question with revolution coming next year why would nintendo release a zelda game for gamecube?wouldn't make more sense for it to come out on the new system?also what is the make of the plasma screen you brought?thanks

Matt responds: Well, Revolution isn't coming out in 2005. It's scheduled to release in 2006 alongside Sony's PlayStation 3. Microsoft will release the successor to Xbox in 2005. And by the way, if there is still any doubt about this happening, now's the time to put it to rest. I've seen some holiday 2005 plans from publishers and several of them have major Xbox 2 titles scheduled for next November. I could name specific franchises and brand new IPs. It's really happening. And from the looks of it, there are going to be some pretty impressive launch titles.


cool.

[amod20002004]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20041112l.jpg
What is this? Is it a new type of advertisement for xbox? :lol: :lol:

[stanDarsh]

It's from Penny Arcade (www.penny-arcade.com). They have no shame!

[Ironlungz]

More evidence that Xenon launches late next year...

"Last week, we reported on Digital Illusions' development plans for next generation consoles from both Microsoft and Sony. Today, in a Swedish-only press release, Digital Illusions CE (DICE) announced that Battlefield Modern Combat will be developed for the Xbox successor.

Interestingly, the release schedule for the game is the same for current consoles and the "MS Nextgen": Fall 2005. This release date certainly hints that the rumors of a Fall 2005 launch date for the Xbox successor might be true.

This information comes just after EA's announcement of a tender offer for all outstanding shares of the Swedish game developer."

Link: teamxbox.com[/b]

[stanDarsh]

EA plans Xbox 2 versions of Battlefield: Modern Combat and Black

Microsoft's console due for significant support from EA's European studios

Early details of Electronic Arts' plans for the next generation of consoles have emerged today, with Digital Illusions' Battlefield: Modern Combat confirmed to be on its way to Xbox 2, as is Criterion's Black.

Digital Illusions revealed last week that it is working on two untitled games for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 2, due for release in late 2006 or 2007, but this is the first time that the firm has confirmed that it is planning to launch a Battlefield game on a next-generation platform.

Battlefield: Modern Combat was originally meant to launch in 2004, but has been pushed back to 2005 to incorporate a single-player element, which is currently being developed at EA Studio UK's Warrington offices.

The year's delay will mean that the developers have time to build an Xbox 2 version, and this is not expected to impact the launch of the titles on other platforms, with PS2 and Xbox versions still in the works.

On a related note, sources close to the company have indicated that Criterion's promising first person shooter Black is also to have an Xbox 2 version, along with versions for the current generation consoles.

These two projects are EA's first named forays into next-generation development, and suggest that the firm's European development division - bolstered by the recent acquisition of Criterion and the likely acquisition of Digital Illusions - is leading the way on the next-gen platforms.

However, as yet, only Xbox 2 versions of the titles in question are expected, with development on PlayStation 3 still up in the air, since Sony's console is not expected to launch until at least six months after Microsoft's.

http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=5519

[The_One]

However, as yet, only Xbox 2 versions of the titles in question are expected, with development on PlayStation 3 still up in the air, since Sony's console is not expected to launch until at least six months after Microsoft's. I've been thinking... You know how Sony just kept on saying that the "CELL" is on "schedule"? No one really knows what the schedule is like... So MAYBE... JUST MAYBE Sony is planning on beating M$ to the punch by releasing earlier then M$... 'Cause remember, Sony says that it's on "schedule", and since we don't know it's schedule, the schedule could be anything at the moment. However, even I doubt my own silly hypothesis... But it could come true ;).

[Rallyracr420]

However, as yet, only Xbox 2 versions of the titles in question are expected, with development on PlayStation 3 still up in the air, since Sony's console is not expected to launch until at least six months after Microsoft's. I've been thinking... You know how Sony just kept on saying that the "CELL" is on "schedule"? No one really knows what the schedule is like... So MAYBE... JUST MAYBE Sony is planning on beating M$ to the punch by releasing earlier then M$... 'Cause remember, Soyn says that it's on "schedule", and since we don't know it's schedule, the schedule could be anything at the moment. However, even I doubt my own silly hypothesis... But it could come true ;).

That'd be damn awesome. Sony's being pretty tight lipped about everything PS3, and I expect they're doing so for a reason. You never know what they'll pull out of their hats.

My question is about the XBoxNextNext. Is MS going to continue to have shortened release cycles for new consoles? This could let them have XBox4 on the shelves at the same time as the PS4 :shock:

[Domination]

However, as yet, only Xbox 2 versions of the titles in question are expected, with development on PlayStation 3 still up in the air, since Sony's console is not expected to launch until at least six months after Microsoft's. I've been thinking... You know how Sony just kept on saying that the "CELL" is on "schedule"? No one really knows what the schedule is like... So MAYBE... JUST MAYBE Sony is planning on beating M$ to the punch by releasing earlier then M$... 'Cause remember, Sony says that it's on "schedule", and since we don't know it's schedule, the schedule could be anything at the moment. However, even I doubt my own silly hypothesis... But it could come true ;).

With no development time, I doubt so.

[megadrive]

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18336

new ATI demo from CryTek, from what I gather. I think it's the Far Cry 1.3 engine. and I believe it's running on ATI's newest, the R480 aka Radeon X850.

getting closer to realtime graphics that resemble low-end CG



there's almost no doubt Xenon will completely surpass this, significantly

[solidus]

Rendering is one thing, acctually playing a game with these gfx is another

[Z]

Even if they show demos at coming E3, without the final hardware specs, the graphics could change to an extent.

[The_One]

Even if they show demos at coming E3, without the final hardware specs, the graphics could change to an extent. I wouldn't bet on it, although that could be possible. I would personally think that the PS3 hardware would be locked down somewhere before or around E3.

[Marjoh]

Well it seems this thing haven't been posted, so here ya go:

December 02, 2004 - The Internet is like dry brush and it doesn't take much to set it ablaze. Such is the case with WarDevil - Unleash the Beast Within, a next-generation title from UK-based Digi-Guys. The official website does not specifically state this title is for Xbox 2, however, several key pieces of information make it an almost sure thing.

WarDevil is described as a "an innovative next generation 3D title" and is set for release in late 2005. With Nintendo's Revolution and Sony's PS3 set to ship in 2006, the only other choice is for Xbox 2. Long-rumored to release in holiday 2005, it would seem gamers will have a new console to consider next year. Consider this a first look at what is apparently a launch title for Microsoft's next system.

WarDevil is promised to go beyond the conventions of a normal video game. Players assume the role of the mysterious WarDevil, navigating what appears to be a post-apocalyptic world, ruled by the Chun Federation. Little else has been revealed about the title, but the teaser-trailer certainly makes this look like an action game and either a first or third-person shooter.

Though the trailer appears to be CG cut-scenes, Digi-Guys seems to suggest that the in-game visuals won't differ much. If this is true, WarDevil would rival today's current PC graphics, truly putting Xbox 2 on the console cutting edge. The cinematic experience of WarDevil is intentional, as the title will also become a CGI high-definition short film.

Digi-Guy's extensive website reveals four of WarDevil's environments:

Wasteland: "This level features open air gameplay and focuses on creating a very strong mood/lighting style."

Hangar: "A very evocative and dark interior level -- deep within the enemy base."

Shaft: "A seemingly endless military supply shaft."

Monastery: "The FreeState desert stronghold -- based around an ancient Monastery."

Source (http://xbox.ign.com/articles/570/570554p1.html)

They also have some screens and a link to the video. And if the video link won't work, try changing the mms:// with http://

[Domination]

This part really concerns me:

Though the trailer appears to be CG cut-scenes, Digi-Guys
seems to suggest that the in-game visuals won't differ much. If this
is true, WarDevil would rival today's current PC graphics, truly putting
Xbox 2 on the console cutting edge.

[PeanutButterMunky]

WarDevil would rival today's current PC graphics
If it didn't, I'd be very surprised...and disappointed...

[Omega Blue]

This part really concerns me:

Though the trailer appears to be CG cut-scenes, Digi-Guys
seems to suggest that the in-game visuals won't differ much. If this
is true, WarDevil would rival today's current PC graphics, truly putting
Xbox 2 on the console cutting edge.
why?

i garantee you that in-game looks far from the CGI movie. what do you expect them to say. "Uh well in-game looks pretty nice but not nearly as good as the trailer".

[Domination]

This part really concerns me:

Though the trailer appears to be CG cut-scenes, Digi-Guys
seems to suggest that the in-game visuals won't differ much. If this
is true, WarDevil would rival today's current PC graphics, truly putting
Xbox 2 on the console cutting edge.
why?

i garantee you that in-game looks far from the CGI movie. what do you expect them to say. "Uh well in-game looks pretty nice but not nearly as good as the trailer".

For one, I was expecting a little more than a current gen PC game. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/worry.gif

[Fats]

With Bill Gates confirmed as the keynote speaker at the Consumer Electronics Shown in Las Vegas on January 5, everyone was expecting Xbox 2 to make its debut on the night.

Why? Gates chose exactly the same event to unleash the original Xbox on the world in 2001, leading to widespread anticipation that he'd do the same for Xbox 2.

Nonetheless, these rumours have never been confirmed by Microsoft itself. Now the presence of the next-gen console is beginning to look even more in doubt, with internet reports citing Xbox 2 development sources suggesting that the grand unveiling will actually take place in March at the Games Developers Conference in San Francisco.

Both theories have strong foundations. The Bill Gates connection is rock solid, but Microsoft used the GDC last year to show off their XNA development tools, believed to be the basis for Xbox 2's technology. A slightly delayed unveiling may also benefit Microsoft as it strives to get Xbox 2 on shelves before Sony's PS3 and Nintendo's Revolution - why would it show its hand early if it's holding all the aces?

We asked Microsoft to comment on these reports and guess what? "We do not comment on rumour and speculation."

We'll keep our eye on developments and keep you up to date.

www.computerandvideogames.com

[Z]

If they release Xenon at the end of 2005, then that will leave at least a six months time gap between it and PS3, at the least. That would be a problem for them. You see, a small gab like the one between PSP and DS is a very good advantage. But a bigger gap would mean notable system improvements for PS3 over Xenon. I do not expect full system specification for PS3 to be announced during 2005, it is simply too long for Sony. Look at when they spilled the beans of PSP. They are still releasing tid bits till now (only about 5 days left the just announced there is a demo UMD with both PSP packages).
I expect a full unveiling for PS3 at E3 2006- Maybe a couple of months before that.
As for Xenon, I still see it as being too soon to launch at the end of 2005. if they did that, that shows that they are really only relying on a head start to sell. Look at the sales of DS, they are VERY good. Do you think they will keep climbing this fast after 5 days?
I seriously doubt it.

[Mitri]

i think that it would be a prtty good time for them to sell the Xenon. if they sold it at the end of the year like they did with the XBOX that would be cool. (like if they released it on the same day that they released the XBOX that would give the XBOX a full 4 years). if they wait for sony to then they are going to get blown up.

with 6 months in between for upgrades to the PS3 it would make a difference but if MS is smart and leaves space for expansion (like sony did with the HDD slot or like nintendo did with the N64 expansion pak) MS have less to worry about.

[Domination]

Xbox 2 to Become a Digital Entertainment Hub?

Well, we haven't talked about the next version of Xbox. But people know we're working on it, and people have to assume it's going to be the world's best game console. That's the place where it needs to start.

But we do think there are going to be opportunities to enable what we've called "integrated innovation" scenarios. You can assume that everything we do -- the gaming side and things that integrate with other forms of entertainment -- is going to get better and better and better.

Certainly, there's the idea that you're going to want to share what I'll call for lack of a better phrase your digital memories, whether that's digital photos or digital video.

You can think about sharing broadcast video. That's going to be a richer scenario.

Music is clearly a scenario that everyone is focused on. Certainly, Apple has done some good work there. But we're still very early in the curve of what's possible and what people want. The consumers we talk to in MSN or Xbox or the Windows team say music is a very essential part of what they do whether it's on an Xbox or a PC or some other device.

Communications turns out to be a very important scenario as well, whether that's chat, messaging, blogging, telephony. All those things are important scenarios, and there will be things that Microsoft will be doing to deliver those. Now in some of those, we may be an infrastructure player, rather than a direct consumer player. There are tons of ways where software can play a role.

All of these scenarios I've just talked about require some hardware and some very cool software to enable them.

Full Story (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2004/tc2004127_5618_tc185.htm)

[Omega Blue]

This part really concerns me:

Though the trailer appears to be CG cut-scenes, Digi-Guys
seems to suggest that the in-game visuals won't differ much. If this
is true, WarDevil would rival today's current PC graphics, truly putting
Xbox 2 on the console cutting edge.
why?

i garantee you that in-game looks far from the CGI movie. what do you expect them to say. "Uh well in-game looks pretty nice but not nearly as good as the trailer".

For one, I was expecting a little more than a current gen PC game. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/worry.gif

im sure it will be just not near what the CGI movie looks like or what the Digi-guys suggest. they have in-game screenshots at the website.

[amod20002004]

I don’t know why some people think that next generation graphics won’t look like CGI movie quality. Doom3 has shown CGI quality graphics. After watching games like doom3, which are from this generation game console, I really don’t understand why next generation console won’t show CGI quality graphics. Some people also don’t have faith on official statement declared from developers. But they just forget that if developers break their promise then it might cause to kill developer's reputation/goodwill in the market. Whatever I don’t have to do anything with that. I have seen next generation in game graphics screen issued by EA. Those screens are also as good as any CGI especially Madden screen shot. I know only one thing that is nothing but if xbox2 can pull these kind of graphics as first generation in gamer graphics then I have no doubts about ultimate graphics power of ps3 which is suppose to be more powerful than xbox2.

[Omega Blue]

I don’t know why some people think that next generation graphics won’t look like CGI movie quality. Doom3 has shown CGI quality graphics.

Shut the hell up, SunDevil broke it down for you but he's gone, i use 4 letter words and im no-where near as nice. BTW i played Doom 3, its a nice looking game, but when compared to some of the CGI films put out today, its a joke.

I have seen next generation in game graphics screen issued by EA.

*Those weren't Real Time In-Game renders.
*EA are known to be alot of Talk.
*Your an idiot.
*KTHXBYE
*Feed your ear a .357 hollow point using a hammer.



ahhh that felt good...its been a while. *Cheers*

[amod20002004]

Shut the hell up, SunDevil broke it down for you but he's gone, i use 4 letter words and im no-where near as nice. BTW i played Doom 3, its a nice looking game, but when compared to some of the CGI films put out today, its a joke.

*Those weren't Real Time In-Game renders.
*EA are known to be alot of Talk.
*Your an idiot.
*KTHXBYE
*Feed your ear a .357 hollow point using a hammer.





ahhh that felt good...its been a while. *Cheers*
Yes, Doom3 has shown CGI quality graphics. I don’t have doubt on that point. You are saying that you can’t compare doom3 with this generation CGI. Yes but you just forgot that Doom3 is from this generation console.As far as your point about screen has been shown by EA sports. Hmmmmmmm. I think they want to show us about what kind of graphics level next generation EA game will show us in upcoming years. I don’t have doubt on EA’s statement. Next generation console will show in game CGI quality graphics. That’s what I am not saying by my own; 5 reputed game companies have declared this statement. Name of the same are as follows.
1] Sony
2] Oni developers
3] Reality engine
4] EA sports
5] Developers of War devil
So we have proof from 5 reputed companies. And on other hande you have nothing beside your faulty comments.
But main question is on whom we should believe?
A] 5 reputed companies, which have claimed that next generation console will show CGI quality graphics. Or
B] A guy like Omega Blue who has been banned from this forum in early days and also who hasn’t have a single proof to support his statement.
Answer- Of course, I will choose answer A].

[Rob78]

PC HARDWARE will soon best the XBOX 2
I'll best you :xNick,I really have been wondering,at first because of the Hello Kitty avatar,but now at what you say,but,Are you homo?

[amod20002004]

PC HARDWARE will soon best the XBOX 2
I'll best you :xNick,I really have been wondering,at first because of the Hello Kitty avatar,but now at what you say,but,Are you homo?
No, Nick is a nice guy. Don’t go by his avatar. I know him since his arrival on Thenextbox.com. He is not a particular console fan. He has all 3 consoles and he always takes side of ps2 on thenextbox.com. Guys from the nextbox.com are famous for making jalousie comments against ps2. But Nick and I always support ps2 on thenextbox.com. He has his own forum too. He is an administrator of that forum.

[Fats]

Guessing from that statement you also want to have his babies... :roll:

[DappaDizzle]

Guessing from that statement you also want to have his babies... :roll:

lol

[Darknight]

Guessing from that statement you also want to have his babies... :roll:

lol

Aren't random, pointless comments that add nothing to the thread against forum rules?

This is becoming far too common around here. I mean, come on people, your post count doesn't make anyone think any more of you. If you're saying childish things, then they're still childish after you've said them 500 times.

[Fats]

Childish? Jesus, lighten up. It's called a sence of humor.

[Darknight]

I wasn't labelling Dappas comment childish, sorry if I came off being overly harsh, but random "lols" just don't contribute anything, and there's no point in posting to see a higher number next to your name :)

Sorry again, didn't mean any offence.

[Fats]

Ah right, my mistake then. Sorry. :)

I've noticed Dappa doing that a few times... Well, more than a few times actually.

We should get back on topic... ANYWAY... I have a tendency to go with Omega on this one.

[Fats]

We've just had official confirmation that Starbreeze Studios, developers of the epic Chronicles of Riddick, are working on a next generation console game based on the popular The Darkness comic, which will be published by Majesco and is set to appear on Xbox 2 in 2006.

This story actually goes back to April, when California-based Union Entertainment said they'd hired Starbreeze Studios to begin work on an adaptation of The Darkness, the popular US comic by Marc Silvestri, Garth Ennis and David Wohl which is published by Top Cow comics, and features a 21-year-old assassin who can control shadows.

This was followed by Majesco's announcement in November that they had signed Starbreeze to develop a next-gen console title for a release in 2006.

Put both together, add a little internet spice and speculation and rumour and you get Majesco are publishing the The Darkness game which is being developed by Starbreeze for a next-gen console.

Further weight to the rumours? Well at the beginning of this month Top Cow productions also signed a movie deal for the The Darkness comic with Platinum Studios which would make a nice comic/movie/game juggernaut, much in the way Starbreeze tied in with Chronicles of Riddick.

A spokesperson from publisher Majesco confirmed all of this, this morning. "Yes we're publishing The Darkness and it's official. It's a great acquisition for us. It will definitely be on a next generation console, either PS3 or Xbox 2. We're still trying to predict and evaluate the next-gen platforms, but the likelihood is it will be Xbox 2."

So there you have it, The Darkness on Xbox 2 and possibly, PS3, official. Remember where you read it first.

www.computerandvideogames.com

[Rallyracr420]

Here's some release info on the XBox2. Keep in mind this is from a rumor mill, but they swear by their record (and even offer many examples of their rumor mill being correct).

Microsoft are Ready – Are You?

We all know that 2005 will be the year of Xbox 2 but it seems that Microsoft have their year planned out as far as trade shows go.

On the 6 th January at CES in Las Vegas, Bill Gates is expected to announce the very first official details of the Xbox 2 to the public. It is likely to be relatively short and sweet but will outline the current state of the platform.

The next big date in the Xbox 2 Calender is expected to be on March 7 at the Games Developers Conference in San Fransisco where Microsoft will debut its first demos of what the next generation console will be able to produce graphically.

Following GDC, the next big date will be the 17 th May at E3 2005. This is where all of the games will be debuted and shown to the public. Expect DOA4 and Perfect Dark Zero to be shown here.

After this, 1 st September will be the date where the European details of the Xbox 2 launch will be revealed at the U.K’s biggest videogame trade-show, ECTS.

Tokyo Games Show 2005 will be the next stop for Xbox 2 at the end of September where Japanese support for the console will be revealed and Japanese launch details are revealed.

Following this will be the launch of the new console which is believed to happen sometime between October 2005 and December 2005. It is believed that it will only be launched in the U.S at this time, with Euro and Japanese launches to follow in Spring 2006.


http://www.xboxgamers.com/index.php?temp_view=page.php&id=141

[Z]

Here's some release info on the XBox2. Keep in mind this is from a rumor mill, but they swear by their record (and even offer many examples of their rumor mill being correct).

Microsoft are Ready – Are You?

We all know that 2005 will be the year of Xbox 2 but it seems that Microsoft have their year planned out as far as trade shows go.

On the 6 th January at CES in Las Vegas, Bill Gates is expected to announce the very first official details of the Xbox 2 to the public. It is likely to be relatively short and sweet but will outline the current state of the platform.

The next big date in the Xbox 2 Calender is expected to be on March 7 at the Games Developers Conference in San Fransisco where Microsoft will debut its first demos of what the next generation console will be able to produce graphically.

Following GDC, the next big date will be the 17 th May at E3 2005. This is where all of the games will be debuted and shown to the public. Expect DOA4 and Perfect Dark Zero to be shown here.

After this, 1 st September will be the date where the European details of the Xbox 2 launch will be revealed at the U.K’s biggest videogame trade-show, ECTS.

Tokyo Games Show 2005 will be the next stop for Xbox 2 at the end of September where Japanese support for the console will be revealed and Japanese launch details are revealed.

Following this will be the launch of the new console which is believed to happen sometime between October 2005 and December 2005. It is believed that it will only be launched in the U.S at this time, with Euro and Japanese launches to follow in Spring 2006.


http://www.xboxgamers.com/index.php?temp_view=page.php&id=141

That is obvious, really. They stated the major gaming expos, of course Xenon will appear in all of them, as well as PS3.
But not that Bill Gates’ Feb. speech may be only in words- nothing to show. And still keep in mind that a ‘05 release is what Micro$ucks is aiming for, and it is not officially announced. I won’t be surprised if it is delayed to Q1 2006.

why can't Micro$ucks and their fanboys find some actual specs to brag about? .. that's right, they don't have any :twisted:

[Marjoh]

Anyone read about this yet?

Have you been naughty or nice? Maybe Santa cares about that when delivering Christmas gifts but we here at TeamXbox have a present for you regardless. You can wait until Christmas night to open your gift or keep reading for what might be the very first real info on Halo 2 Director’s Cut.

OXM was the first to report about Halo 2.5 revealing that the game is planned as an Xbox 2 launch title but now you’re going to read the very first details, straight from one of our most trusted sources:

“Halo 2.5 will be an Xbox 2 launch title and is going to run in HDTV resolution with new, improved textures and graphical effects. All the stuff that people expected from Halo 2 but didn’t make the cut will be there.”

Although our source didn’t specify which HDTV resolution the game will run at, HDTV’s lower spec is enough to get excited. Can you imagine Halo 2 running at 1280x720?!!! We also wonder what was meant by “all the stuff people expected from Halo 2 but didn’t make the cut.” With this kind of top-secret info, you don’t ask; you simply listen. We cross our fingers that this will include online co-op, more multiplayer maps, and the final conclusion to the Halo 2 story.

“The technology that powers Halo 2 has been designed from day one to take advantage of the next generation hardware,” the insider added. “In Halo 2, the Xbox was pushed to its limits but now the game will reach new heights with the advanced hardware.”

But that is not the only info our insider had for us as soon after he dropped the bomb: “Now, here is the twist. Halo 2.5 will come preloaded with the optional HDD. It’ll be one of the two reasons to get the Xbox 2 that comes with a hard drive. The other reason… well, you’ll just have to wait”

Sounds crazy to us but that’s what we have been told. Interestedly, if this is true, the rumor confirms the existence of, at least, two editions of the Xbox successor. Last month, we reported about the supposed Microsoft plan to release three versions of the Xbox successor. Although never in console history has an add-on sold enough to represent a large percentage of the install base, the inclusion of Halo 2.5 would probably sell millions of hard drives and/or other peripherals that includes this special edition.

And supposedly, there’s still one other reason…what could that be?

Source (http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/7408/Halo-25-and-Xbox-2-The-Bomb/)

Sound fishy?

[Z]

Whether IF that is true or not, it is rather disappointing. I am actually disappointed with the ‘2.5’. what is that? A mere upgrade?! Hogwash!! Since things like graphics, resolution, FX, etc. are improved, why not change the story a bit and call it Halo 3? I will not buy a new system to play a director’s cut.

[The_One]

Whether IF that is true or not, it is rather disappointing. I am actually disappointed with the ‘2.5’. what is that? A mere upgrade?! Hogwash!! Since things like graphics, resolution, FX, etc. are improved, why not change the story a bit and call it Halo 3? I will not buy a new system to play a director’s cut. *nods* My thoughts exactly.

[Omega Blue]

Why the XBox 2 will fail to the Ps3

1.It can NOT secure enough of the Japanese market to put up a fight with the Ps3 OR N: Rev in the land of the Rising Sun.

2.Most of the exclusive 3rd party XBox games were on the XBox only because it was more powerful graphically then the Ps2. What happens when the Ps3 is more powerful then the XB2 in all aspects? Molyneux has showed he'd not be afraid to make games for other consoles. BioWare as well. Team Ninja's Itagaki has (in so many words but none the less) given a nod toward developing a project for another console, even though in the interview he said he could not talk about it yet, but he will talk soon enough.

3.The XB2 will contain vitually no innvation. Why because Microsoft's XBox devision have never been original with their hardware, and when they try, they fail cause they suck at existances. Example: The XBox itself. They snatched up the Eyetoy concept pretty quick, i garantee Sony's deal with IBM have something to do with them choosing IBM aswell, and Nintendo's ATI Deal...well you know. Its like the jackasses at Microsoft said "hey lets do everything our competitors are doing wow we're so smart" No, your Microsoft, your not, you created Windows 95', 98', ME' and XP'. So if by "smart" you be stupid the then yes you are "smart".

4.http://maddox.xmission.com/xbox_suckit.html

5.Did i mention they suck at enticing the Japanese market?

[Rob78]

That is obvious, really. They stated the major gaming expos, of course Xenon will appear in all of them, as well as PS3.
But not that Bill Gates’ Feb. speech may be only in words- nothing to show. And still keep in mind that a ‘05 release is what Micro$oft is aiming for, and it is not officially announced. I won’t be surprised if it is delayed to Q1 2006.

why can't Micro$oft and their fanboys find some actual specs to brag about? .. that's right, they don't have any :twisted:
Well, all I can say, is that it is sad how you make fun of Microsoft, when the PS3 goas up in flames, than maybe I can remind you that you posted this, and maybe than I can say something as dumb as "Micro$ucks." Anyhow, do you really have any "real" PS3 specs to brag about either? Didn't think so. Well, at least X-Box gamers will get specs much before the hordes that refer to MS in such a stupid way.

Now for a new comment...

Why the XBox 2 will fail to the Ps3

1.It can NOT secure enough of the Japanese market to put up a fight with the Ps3 OR N: Rev in the land of the Rising Sun.

2.Most of the exclusive 3rd party XBox games were on the XBox only because it was more powerful graphically then the Ps2. What happens when the Ps3 is more powerful then the XB2 in all aspects? Molyneux has showed he'd not be afraid to make games for other consoles. BioWare as well. Team Ninja's Itagaki has (in so many words but none the less) given a nod toward developing a project for another console, even though in the interview he said he could not talk about it yet, but he will talk soon enough.

3.The XB2 will contain vitually no innvation. Why because Microsoft's XBox devision have never been original with their hardware, and when they try, they fail cause they suck at existances. Example: The XBox itself. They snatched up the Eyetoy concept pretty quick, i garantee Sony's deal with IBM have something to do with them choosing IBM aswell, and Nintendo's ATI Deal...well you know. Its like the jackasses at Microsoft said "hey lets do everything our competitors are doing wow we're so smart" No, your Microsoft, your not, you created Windows 95', 98', ME' and XP'. So if by "smart" you be stupid the then yes you are "smart".

4.http://maddox.xmission.com/xbox_suckit.html

5.Did i mention they suck at enticing the Japanese market?

Well, I guess if you can make a list, than so can I...

1. The PS3 will be out in the U.S. much later than the XBox 2, and with XBox 2 having this early advantage, gamers will buy this instead of waiting.

2. Sony is as cocky as can be about it's "cell" microprocessor, but all I can say is, most don't really care, as long as a game looks good, they buy it, media simplifies this, so it's down to the war of the ads, which MS is much better at.

3. PS3 online play will suck as much as it does now, Sony is just bad at this online thing.

4. XNA is promising, and MS has DirectX. What does sony have? Ohh...Nvidia...wow...

5. Microsoft now has a well established fan base that can only get larger.

6. XBox 2 launch games(HALO 2.5) will rule!

And heres a bet, I bet that by the first week of XBox 2 retail, MS will report at least 1.5 million units sold

[The_One]

Anyhow, do you really have any "real" PS3 specs to brag about either? Didn't think so. You are correct, there's no real specs to brag about -- yet. However, as the CELL Workstations have shown, the power of the CELL is very real. Even the prototype CELL Workstations themselves have been able to crunch out 16TFLOp/s. The final CELL going into the PS3 shouldn't be too off from the 1TFLOp/s mark.

[Omega Blue]

1. The PS3 will be out in the U.S. much later than the XBox 2, and with XBox 2 having this early advantage, gamers will buy this instead of waiting.

2. Sony is as cocky as can be about it's "cell" microprocessor, but all I can say is, most don't really care, as long as a game looks good, they buy it, media simplifies this, so it's down to the war of the ads, which MS is much better at.

3. PS3 online play will suck as much as it does now, Sony is just bad at this online thing.

4. XNA is promising, and MS has DirectX. What does sony have? Ohh...Nvidia...wow...

5. Microsoft now has a well established fan base that can only get larger.

6. XBox 2 launch games(HALO 2.5) will rule!

And heres a bet, I bet that by the first week of XBox 2 retail, MS will report at least 1.5 million units sold

1.I hardly call the 3 to 6 months "much later" especially since the XBox came out over a year after the Ps2 and according to you, it was a success (what a joke, i guess it takes one to make one you idiot)

2. Sony? Cocky? are you joking (wait your whole entire existences is one) Sony is the most humble player in the console game. They do not need to resort to lash outs at Microsoft or Nintendo unlike their competitors to them. so far most of the Cell presentations where they tout the Cells power is coming from IBM, but wait isn't IBM also helping MS develope their next consoles main source of power? well why aren't IBM all flashy about the XBox2's CPU? Because its a cheap Cell knock off, and it sucks, Nore will it be anywhere near the same power capabilities. I know that for a fact the Ps3 will not be the under powered beast this time around.

3.Hmm wait you say i dont know the Ps3's specs and critisize me for making an overzealous comment yet you claim to be the all knower of what Sony has inmind for the Ps3's online functionalitys? Is your type of "stupid" learned or an instincts? Need i not remind you Sony has a whole entire devision dedicated to Online Gaming *cough* SOE Sony Online Entertainment you insignificant *cough*...damn thats one hell of a cough i must be alergic to stupid people but where are they coming from, oh wait theirs one right their, his name is Rob, Hi Rob *waves*.....now leave.

4.Hmm what does Sony have...Collada....IBM...nVidia (which know their GPU's in and out, especially the programming) their own Cell based workstations for devs to use to build games from the ground up. oh and didn't big news just come out about how IBM and Sony said they are making the Cell to be very easy to develope for?

5. Sony has a VERY well established fan base and it can only get large.

6.Ps3 launch games (shit load more then one re-make of an already over-hyped game AKA Halo 2).

Your lucky i replied to you, usually i only say what i have to say then leave a topic since i know im right and anyone who says otherwise is wrong, since i have a stricked "Never argue with an idiot cause they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with expierence" Policy. But i figured, this time i'll indulge the idiot one more time, its like dropping a gazel into a small area with a lion, the lion will play with it...then eat it and toss it aside like yesterdays trash :D

[Rob78]

:? Ok...back to topic

Microsoft is better backed than Sony, not only that, but console development is getting more expensive, what if Nintendo were to drop out?

[kevindenoyette]

all petty bullshit comments aside, SONY has the edge over microsoft in the next-gen war. Doesn't mean they'll win though, but I figure they will.

[Domination]

:? Ok...back to topic

Microsoft is better backed than Sony...

They are? The last time I checked, the PS2 was taking most of their exclusives with Japan favoring Sony? :?

Not only that, but console development is getting more expensive, what if Nintendo were to drop out?

Then a lot of those exclusives would head into one direction and not two. If Microsoft's performance continues over into the next-gen the same as this gen, if not worst, take a good guess at where a lot of those exclusive may possibly head next.

As I mentioned awhile back, if this XNA solution of theirs turn out to be anywhere on pair with what Sony is already working on for the PS3, this could cripple Microsoft's software advantage.

[Z]

Well, all I can say, is that it is sad how you make fun of Microsoft, when the PS3 goas up in flames, than maybe I can remind you that you posted this, and maybe than I can say something as dumb as "Micro$ucks."

of course that will happen: PS3 is going to be on fire, Xenon stone cold. then you'll remind me of this and you can say micro$ucks, micro$tinks, etc. Oh, and I call them that because I like the sound of it and it fits them fine.


Anyhow, do you really have any "real" PS3 specs to brag about either? Didn't think so.
I think so: one word for your 'high' comprehension: CELL. if you can take more than that then, OpenGL and Sony electronic expertise.


1. The PS3 will be out in the U.S. much later than the XBox 2, and with XBox 2 having this early advantage, gamers will buy this instead of waiting.

yeah, sure. they'll be hungry to play Halo 2 again...for six months. oh, I'm sorry, I meant a 2 and a 'half' Halo. wow you're killing us here..


it's down to the war of the ads, which MS is much better at.
of course they are. it is not like Sony is the 3rd most recognized name in the world, which the first is Coca-cola. oh wait, it is. and microstinks is no where near it. check all the mags like financial ones, Fortune, etc.


3. PS3 online play will suck as much as it does now, Sony is just bad at this online thing.
yeah, its not like they have a whole division set up for it, and other major players like Squareenix's playOnline, oh wait, they do.


4. XNA is promising
yeah, I can't wait to play PC games on Xenon, and vise versa.


and MS has DirectX. What does sony have? Ohh...Nvidia...wow..
the correct way to say that is micro$not has ATI, Sony has nVidia.
micro$hmut has DX, Sony has the far better OpenGL.


5. Microsoft now has a well established fan base that can only get larger.
the only thing micro$not has istablished is stinky stain joke. If there are that many people that like that, be my guest.


6. XBox 2 launch games(HALO 2.5) will rule!
of course, because their too dumb to make a Halo 3, and Xenon players are too dumb to remeber they just played it.

a lot of those exclusives would head into one direction and not two. If Microsoft's performance continues over into the next-gen the same as this gen, if not worst, take a good guess at where a lot of those exclusive may possibly head next.


I never noticed a game that is exclusive only on Gamecube and xbox. it is eather PS2 and xbox, or PS2 and Gamecube. and all of the solo exclusives come out on PS2 and not another console, e.g Gamecube: all of the so called "big 5" came on PS2, except for one of them which failed (PN5?).
Xbox: games like Cantantine, Mallice, etc. we originally xbox exclusives.

Edited by Matt: Double-posting.

[Brandon]

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the floor this morning, Z? I know you're an intelligent poster, but this one just seemed like you were a tad bit on the angry side ;) No probs though, buddy.

But Rob, you seem to be upsetting a lot of members with this "one-sided" mentality and blatant Sony-Bashing inside a specifically Sony-oriented Forum. That's never a good idea. SO please hold your tongue or at least think more thoroughly through before posting. No probs with you either, just some food for thought...

[Mitri]

i think that the xboxnext will have a very good chance of beating out the PS3. not saying it will beat it out gpu or cpu but in popularity.

if we look at the past we will notice that whenever a new console/handheld is released people automatically pick it up because its new. no one gets into gpu and cpu power like you guys.they care to look at whats on the back of the box. if it looks better then whats available at the moment(xbox,ps2,gc) then their going to pick it up.

then since the first HDVD is slated to be released next year people are going to look to the xboxnext to play games and HDVD's much like they did when they bought their ps2's to play games and DVD's.

[MiThRaZoR]

Halo is a messed up game. It's too easy. I played for the first time and easily beat it. It's kind of a dissapointment.

The only reason Xbox has better online is because all the rich people that could afford to pay 5 dollars a month (don't make fun of me, I'm too poor to pay 5 extra dollars with all that I bought with my first purchase.) Paying for high speed internet is enough for me and PS2's online is good enough. I don't really want to spoil myself. Livin' is poverty is better for your future. I don't live in it though. I'm just glad I don't have to waste so much money just to have fun. Unlike Xbox you pay for the console and then the DVD player, and then internet, and then, 5 extra dollars, oh yeah, I forgot to mention the game.

The only thing Xbox saves you money is on is games. All it got is Halo.

When I ask people what are you top 3 games they answer, "Halo 2, ummm... Wait I need to think, oh yeah, Halo the first one, and umm.... this one is hard...... Wait, I know, no, no I actually don't."

What the hell? Can't name 3 games? Which are not sequals?

Forget Xbox, Gamecube is a wayyy better opponent then Xbox.

[Brandon]

The only people that have that kind of mentality are the ones that just bought Xbox b/c of Halo and/or Halo 2. All 3 consoles have their own great games, as well as great multiplatform ones. You can't just say Xbox is a horrible console because Halo is so hyped, or the fact that everyone has been talking about it lately. Xbox has a boatload of great games that would justify its purchase. The only problem I have with it is the sheer size, which I hear is being addressed for the Xenon, so it will appeal to the Japanese consumers.

[pc999]

Brandon is right.The 3 consoles have exclusive ( I must admit that that personaly I prefer ,usualy , no PS games ), were they get really different is in the kind of games.

Next gen should be hard to predict, in terms of gfx will be really hard to say the difference, games each one will have their exclusives...

I would guess that the sucess will be determinated (almost only) by the games, a head start with really good suport (EA, online, new IP, good sequels) can give an advantage, for last I am really interested in Nitendo Revolution they could well turn the tide with good games that play in very inovative ways.

And people please argument with facts not rumors or assumptions. :D

[Z]

I don't think Ninty calls its next console 'Revolution' for nothing. I say they will out perform Xenon next-gen. They will have innovation, plus their strong first party franchises. If they repeat the same mistakes of Gamecube –mainly scarce first party games+ no multimedia playback+ no online support- then they may have lost the race for good. It will be really crazy for them not to out do Xenon, which offers nothing than a beefed Xbox.

[Brandon]

It's really hard to tell as they're keep their lips tight about it. But I've heard from various news articles that they're relying on "innovation" more than graphical power. So it's really up in the air at this point. I wish they'd hurry up and release some info, but they probably won't hint at ANYTHING until E3 next year :?

[MiThRaZoR]

It's ture. They're relying on innovation so they're just trying to get good games on their console.

They also said that they would not have a D-pad and the A or B buttons. The