Question about ps3 and Xenon

[Rico_4]

what are the specs for both systems and which one is slightly (or largerly) better than the other graphic wise? :?:

[PeanutButterMunky]

Nobody knows for sure yet. Unless you're working directly with Microsoft or Sony.

[Rallyracr420]

This is kinda on topic....

I was originally going to only buy the PS3. My last system was a PS2, and although I believe the XBox is better hardware, I couldn't leave Sony to contribute to a company I hate.

But the XBox had a HD, XBox Live, 4 controller ports, way better gfx than the PS2 (no matter what you PS2 fanboys say), customizable soundtracks, downloadable content, and virtually no load times. I skipped the XBox because of the size, the controller, and because I hate MS. Even when I go to a friend's place I bring an adapter to plug my dualshock into the XBox.

But now with the next gen systems come out, I don't think power will be a factor in my decision. Frankly, I'm happy with the level of graphics that this generation provided. Anymore graphics than what the current XBox can provide is just icing on the cake.

Considering the PS2 (even though I have the PSTwo) has been out for years and years, why should I wait another year past the XBoxNext to spend money on a PS3?

[ssssss]

what are the specs for both systems and which one is slightly (or largerly) better than the other graphic wise? :?:

Nintendo. :lol:

[Z]

Xbox is technically better than both PS2 & Gamecube. Thing is; PS2 wins due to crazy Dev support= mountains of games. Plus, it has the most exclusive franchises. Xbox could have been a hit if it had more games.
About nex-gen; I’ll be getting a PS3 by default. Because I cannot let go of my favorite franchises; Tekken, Ace Combat, GT, Jack&Daxter, Ratchet&Clank, MGS, FF, Suikedon, Star Ocean, Devil May Cry, and so on and so forth. After I get PS3, I’ll look up the other offers. It is a very slim chance I’ll be concidering Revelotion, but Xenon? Got to onvince me by having WAY more games.

About specs of PS3 & Xenon:
You see Microsoft will have the best money can buy. It is as simple as that. They don’t make such equipment, so they will simply buy everything.
Sony is making PS3, along with Toshiba and now IBM. The Cell is one of the MAJOR aspects of the PS3 that will not be competed against. If they execute the move correctly, then PS3 will be the superior system technically.
Crazy Dev support+ Cell+ Sony expertise = another dominant Big Mamma.
Again, you don’t have to pick only one system. As for me, PS2 didn’t give me any reason to get another system. It was all I need. There is a reason why the word ‘Playstation’ is synonymous with gaming and video games. 

[__Deadmeat]

PSX3
CPU : CELL@1.15 Ghz 72 GFLOPS peak
GPU : GS3@575 Mhz. 4(There are four tile engines inside GS3) x 4 pixels/cycle. 18 GFLOPS T&L
Memory : 128 MB SystemRAM(CELL) + 128 MB GraphicsRAM(GS3)
Drive : BD_ROM

Xbox Next
CPU : PowerPC970MP@2 Ghz 32 GFLOPS peak
GPU : R500@700 Mhz. 45 GFLOPS peak 5.6 Gpixels/s
Memory : 256 MB DDR3 UMA
Drive : Regular DVD

[solidus]

PSX3
CPU : CELL@1.15 Ghz 72 GFLOPS peak
GPU : GS3@575 Mhz. 4(There are four tile engines inside GS3) x 4 pixels/cycle. 18 GFLOPS T&L
Memory : 128 MB SystemRAM(CELL) + 128 MB GraphicsRAM(GS3)
Drive : BD_ROM

Xbox Next
CPU : PowerPC970MP@2 Ghz 32 GFLOPS peak
GPU : R500@700 Mhz. 45 GFLOPS peak 5.6 Gpixels/s
Memory : 256 MB DDR3 UMA
Drive : Regular DVD
You're an idiot

[sirhalli]

Hello

I have been reading this forum for a while now and most of the discussions are good ones and fun to read. But then sometimes some stupid fool comes here to spoil the fun with plain lies. Lies that are unwanted here and serve no purpose other than to couse anger and frustrasion.

This fool is the childish bag of rotten shit that calls himself DeadMeat.

Why do you not leave us alone you friggin idiot.

Please do not post here again DeadMeat, feel free to read what goes on here but do not post here again.

[rev>thanu]

what the heck :lol: hey i'm going to make my own specs too.

Xbox next
CPU: PowerPC970 @ 3.5Ghz 32GFlops Peak
GPU: R500 @ 500Mhz 45GFLOPS peak 5.6Pixels/s
Memory: 256MB DDR2
Polygons 150 million with all effects applied
Video Ram 32MB
Drive: HD DVD


PS3
CPU: Cell @ 4.6Ghz 850Gflop peak 1teraflop in theory
GPU: GS3 @ 800Mhz 500Gflops peak 800Gflops in theory
Main Memory: 128MB- 256MB(could be either one) of Xdram has 8 times the bandwith of DDR2 and 6 times the bandwith of DDR3.
Video Ram: 128MB
polygons 700 million with all effects applied
Drive: BD ROm

[PeanutButterMunky]

You see Microsoft will have the best money can buy.And that is hardly the case this time. Sony/IBM/Toshiba have spent billions into the development of the CELL architecture. And with the current Xbox, don't know if you know this, but Microsoft is losing money on every console they sell. They f^cked up this time around, but are kicking it into gear for next-gen.

They have money to throw around like no other, but that doesn't mean they're going to have the best system come next-gen.

PSX3
CPU : CELL@1.15 Ghz 72 GFLOPS peak
GPU : GS3@575 Mhz. 4(There are four tile engines inside GS3) x 4 pixels/cycle. 18 GFLOPS T&L
Memory : 128 MB SystemRAM(CELL) + 128 MB GraphicsRAM(GS3)
Drive : BD_ROM

Xbox Next
CPU : PowerPC970MP@2 Ghz 32 GFLOPS peak
GPU : R500@700 Mhz. 45 GFLOPS peak 5.6 Gpixels/s
Memory : 256 MB DDR3 UMA
Drive : Regular DVDTo put it simply...NO.

[DappaDizzle]

PSX3
CPU : CELL@1.15 Ghz 72 GFLOPS peak
GPU : GS3@575 Mhz. 4(There are four tile engines inside GS3) x 4 pixels/cycle. 18 GFLOPS T&L
Memory : 128 MB SystemRAM(CELL) + 128 MB GraphicsRAM(GS3)
Drive : BD_ROM

Xbox Next
CPU : PowerPC970MP@2 Ghz 32 GFLOPS peak
GPU : R500@700 Mhz. 45 GFLOPS peak 5.6 Gpixels/s
Memory : 256 MB DDR3 UMA
Drive : Regular DVD
You're an idiot

were the hell did u come up with them figures you prat

[Domination]

PSX3
CPU : CELL@1.15 Ghz 72 GFLOPS peak
GPU : GS3@575 Mhz. 4(There are four tile engines inside GS3) x 4 pixels/cycle. 18 GFLOPS T&L
Memory : 128 MB SystemRAM(CELL) + 128 MB GraphicsRAM(GS3)
Drive : BD_ROM

Xbox Next
CPU : PowerPC970MP@2 Ghz 32 GFLOPS peak
GPU : R500@700 Mhz. 45 GFLOPS peak 5.6 Gpixels/s
Memory : 256 MB DDR3 UMA
Drive : Regular DVD

My God, how do people get away with such nonsense? :|

You see Microsoft will have the best money can buy.And that is hardly the case this time. Sony/IBM/Toshiba have spent billions into the development of the CELL architecture. And with the current Xbox, don't know if you know this, but Microsoft is losing money on every console they sell. They f^cked up this time around, but are kicking it into gear for next-gen.

They have money to throw around like no other, but that doesn't mean they're going to have the best system come next-gen.

This is very true. Microsoft may have the best that money can buy, from their experience in this market, but what they (or their provider) may consider the best, may only be the best that THEY are able to build at that time, which may not necessarily be the best THAT CAN be built at that time. This should have been very obvious amongst numerous other competing companys.

[shadowofomioc]

Yeah Microsoft can get the best that money can buy, but Sony is building the best that Microsoft will NEVER be able to buy.

When you combine the financial might of Sony, IBM and Toshiba you have a combined account that is very much in tune with what Microsoft has in their accounts. I mean, Microsoft really hasnt been making a killing in either the stock market and they are still losing money with the X-Box.

Remember when the Playstation came out and Sony touted the fact that the Playstation and playstation related products were responsible for over 20% of their profits? Well, Microsoft sure the hell isn't saying anything like that and there is a good reason why.

Cell is going to blow people out of the water. Just wait. Nothing Microsoft can do can stop the unimaginable potential behind the Cell architecture.

[Illmatic]

Off topic, but wouldn't it be cheeky if MS named their CPU ''Gohan''. :o

[The_One]

PSX3
CPU : CELL@1.15 Ghz 72 GFLOPS peak
GPU : GS3@575 Mhz. 4(There are four tile engines inside GS3) x 4 pixels/cycle. 18 GFLOPS T&L
Memory : 128 MB SystemRAM(CELL) + 128 MB GraphicsRAM(GS3)
Drive : BD_ROM

Xbox Next
CPU : PowerPC970MP@2 Ghz 32 GFLOPS peak
GPU : R500@700 Mhz. 45 GFLOPS peak 5.6 Gpixels/s
Memory : 256 MB DDR3 UMA
Drive : Regular DVD
Well, let's just say, for some wacked out reason, Deadmeat is correct :).

To answer the original question:
With the given system analysis by your truly, Deadmeat, I'd have to say PS3 wins marginally (this is based on HIS blatant lies), however, in actuality, I would think that PS3 should far surpass 72GFLOp/s.
575Mhz for the GPU? Where'd you get that? From the power point presentations, it DID mention that there would be 4 seperate rendering engine per GAIF, so that's believable, however, where the hell did you come up with 575Mhz? Also, only 4 pixels per cycle for all FOUR rendering engines? Buddy... you have 4 seperate rendering engine, each rendering engine can process at least 2 pixels, which would put your pitiful estimate to shame (4 x 8 - 32). Whatever, that's not important, it's not like the total FLOp/s of the GPU will be as low as 18GFLOp/s :roll:.

From now on, it's all my own assumption:
The CELL at 4.6Ghz, 4 PE's and 8 APU's per PE (as noted in the patent), should at least give the PS3 1TFLOp/s theoretical power... seeing as how a Rack of CELL produces 16TFLOp/s, and a single Rack Box with 8PE's (That's double then the theoretical amount of PE's going into the PS3), it can produce 2TFLOp/s... so, if we reduce the number of PE's by half, theoretically, so should the FLOp/s reduce by half. That gives you a nice number called "1TFLOp/s" ;). Of course, this is it's peak theoretical performance, no processor in the world (as with anything else in life :roll:) is 100% efficient. Quite frankly, I'd be surprised to see first gen PS3 games use more then 500GFLOp/s. It may not be into the late 2nd gen games before at least 50% of it's CPU power can be utilized. With this in mind, I'd have to say that it should be able to render up to 600 million polygon per second, 700 if you push it to it's extreme. Note that this number is based on the assumption of 1TFLOp/s, BUT, as I stated earlier, the TRUE processing power cannot be 1TFLOp/s, and at most, I'm sure we'll harness 750-800 GFLOp/s by the end of it's life cycle. 1st gen games will probably use a mere 200-300 million polygon per second, and gradually increasing until we hit the 600-700 million mark.

Xenon:
Ack, according to rumours, it will have 3 seperate PPC970 derivative, each with dual cores. However... this rumour is most likely pure lies, due to the fact that dual cores, not the mention THREE of it, would simply create too much heat and use too much power.
It'd be lucky if they can even get two PPC970 dual core CPU's into the Xenon... :roll:
Deadmeat's 32GFLOp/s peak isn't too off, for 2 dual core PPC970's, that's not bad, not bad at all.
Let's just put things into perspective, according to Deadmeat, the PS3's CPU will have 72GFLOp/s... so:
72 > 32... 'nuff said...

Oh yeah, Deadmeat, before you start pouring your blatant lies, at least give us some source of where you got the "575Mhz CPU clock speed" from :twisted:.

[Z]

You see Microsoft will have the best money can buy.And that is hardly the case this time. Sony/IBM/Toshiba have spent billions into the development of the CELL architecture. And with the current Xbox, don't know if you know this, but Microsoft is losing money on every console they sell. They f^cked up this time around, but are kicking it into gear for next-gen.

They have money to throw around like no other, but that doesn't mean they're going to have the best system come next-gen.
.

That is what I am saying. Microsoft can ONLY buy the best available. The big boyz (Sony, IBM and Toshiba) are making their own. The Cell is the NEXT BIG THING in chip evolution. That will contradict the first point and technically mean that Microsoft can NOT buy the best in town. Ironic, how a spoiled brat (MS) can’t get everything he wants.

PSX3
CPU : CELL@1.15 Ghz

Come on man, PLEASE!! Monster Cell a puny 1.15Ghz? you need to tell me that my computer is running 3 TIMES faster than the legend Cell?!! (I have P4 3.40Ghz)
This is so …I don’t even know how to say it. So I’ll leave it at that.

[xbdestroya]

Ok Z, just so you know, even if the Cell WAS only 1.15 GHZ, it would still be a LOT more powerful than your P4 3.4 GHz. If we are going ahead and rating things in flops, it'd be at least 10+ times as powerful. Don't buy into the GHz myth. :wink: Faster is better, yes, but only within the context of the strength of an architecture.

[Xeno]

This fool is the childish bag of rotten shit that calls himself DeadMeat.



:shock:

That made me laugh :)

[axia777]

PSX3
CPU : CELL@1.15 Ghz 72 GFLOPS peak
GPU : GS3@575 Mhz. 4(There are four tile engines inside GS3) x 4 pixels/cycle. 18 GFLOPS T&L
Memory : 128 MB SystemRAM(CELL) + 128 MB GraphicsRAM(GS3)
Drive : BD_ROM

Xbox Next
CPU : PowerPC970MP@2 Ghz 32 GFLOPS peak
GPU : R500@700 Mhz. 45 GFLOPS peak 5.6 Gpixels/s
Memory : 256 MB DDR3 UMA
Drive : Regular DVD

Hey , what the hell, lets all invent some tech specs on something we really all do not have any idea about. Other than the scraps of info that Sony and such let us know. :lol: Really I think he does this to yank our chains. What a sad fool. I can't wait for PS3 to come out. And if it everyting that Sony says it will be? He will be shamed into being an -on-line hermit, or change his on-line name. :lol:

[PeanutButterMunky]

The character "Data" on Star Trek, his internal CPU was capable of 50 Quadrillion Bits

*Useless Fact* ;)

[stanDarsh]

PeanutButterMunky, your just what this forum needs. Your character provides the comedy relief! :lol:

[PeanutButterMunky]

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/ruinkai/biggrinyoyoA.gif Thanks

[High Lander]

The character "Data" on Star Trek, his internal CPU was capable of 50 Quadrillion Bits

*Useless Fact* ;)

Very nice !

The Sony workstation reaches 16TFLOPS
So, it can multiply 16x32 (512) Tera bits/s, or half quadrillion bits.

But we have know clue of what these " 50 quadrillion bits" could mean... there are n ways to process it, and multiplication is not a light thing to do... sum is far faster.

So, to multiply 2 32 bit numbers, 16 trillion times per second, you´d need to "process" some quadrillion bits per second...

So, the Sony workstation is ver close to the character "Data" :wink: and so will be PS3, even if 16 times slower than the workstation.

[PeanutButterMunky]

^^^^^^

Um...no.

[cpiasminc]

I'm lost... how does one get 32 GFLOPs with 3 processors at 2 GHz? Either way, I did hear a few things on Xenon from someone who has a devkit. What he did say was over the phone, so there's probably not that much issue with the info.

I did hear the number 2.4 GHz for clock... and that it may go up. There's no real physical limitation of PPC that says over 2 GHz must be water-cooled... that's purely an aesthetic thing on Apple's part to keep noise to a minimum. Moreover, being on 65nm would surely bring power consumption down quite a bit.

Also, the RAM would be at least 512 MB simply for the sake of holding onto gigantic hi-res HDR textures (kind of warranted when you can have textures up to 64 MB). Depending on costs and weighing between RAM and hard drive, it's possible that they could go up to 1 GB.

The actual performance of each processor without VMX/Altivec optimizations won't be all that stellar... Think Celeron/Sempron level. It's only with SIMD optimizations that the performance really gets up there. Even so, that's typical of PPC.

Anyway, with 2.4 GHz, 3 CPUs, and 8 FLOPS to a cycle, I get 57.6 GFLOPS peak. Also, I wonder about SIMD with SMT... If it's a matter of a long ill-utilized pipeline, that's one thing. If it's a matter of having extra pipelines (wide issue), then that would be interesting. The latter could mean multiple packed ops in the same cycle (in which case, a revised estimate would be in order).

[RolandG]

I am not a techhead, but take a look at the screenshots from WarDevil

http://www.wardevil.com/ (under the game).

I am pretty sure that the PS3 will have a graphical advantage over the Xbox II, but imh people are still expecting too much from the PS3.

Another thing that keeps me puzzled is that nobody is talking about "Nintendo Revolution". I am certainly going to get a PS3 because of games like GTA, FF, GT and so on, but I am sure as hell also going to get the new Nintendo machine.

Nintendo developes awesome games and I still don't quite understand why everybody is talking bad about Nintendo. The Gamecube has great graphics and games like Metroid Prime, Resident Evil Remake, Legend of Zelda and Residet Evil 4 are impressive + they develop some quirky games Pikmin, Paper Mario, Zelda WW that are daring in some ways, but they always suceed.

I think there is a good chance that Microsoft isn't going to stay in the videogame market for long. Right now the Xbox strenght is it's graphical superiority, but with the PS3 being certainly better and the Nintendo machine possible beeing just as good if not better leaves Microsoft pretty much screwed.

Nintendo has a fantastic developement devision and they got a good bond with Mikami (developer of RE4) who just left Capcom together with the maker of Devil may cry because Capcom decided that they are going to port RE4 over two the PS2. Mikami said that this game would be exclusivly for the GameCube... seems like Capcom went too far and now they are gone and he won't even be involved in the PSII port. I think they both joined Clover studios (Okami, Viewtiful Joe) which, although it
s owned by Capcom, enjoys total creative freedom.

Microsoft may have the Bungy team, but I guess that's not going to be enough. It's my opinion that the focus is going to go away from the graphics side and back to the gaming side...hopefully. And while Microsoft will certainly do more then just well on the US market I think the Japanese and the European market are going to be dominated by Nintendo and Sony . And it wouldn't even be a problem for those two to coexist. Nintendo is different than Sony. The battle between the PSP and DS isn't even that big...here certainly is one, but imagine DS wouldn't be and instead there would be a Microsoft handheld.... that sure would be on hell of a battle.


anyway.... this post is way too long already

so long microsoft.

and no.... i am not one of those MICROSOFT IS EVIL! people
[/url]

[Z]

I am pretty sure that the PS3 will have a graphical advantage over the Xbox II, but imh people are still expecting too much from the PS3.
I am confident That PS3 can handle the polygons of War Devil. What I am concerned about is the textures.

nobody is talking about "Nintendo Revolution"
that is because Nintendo itself isn’t saying anything, which is concerning.

Nintendo developes awesome games and I still don't quite understand why everybody is talking bad about Nintendo.
yes, Big N does have good games, the problem is they are few and far between. if N can produce more of its games it would be a hit. Another problem is licensing. 3rd party developers have a hard time with fees and licensing than they do with Sony or Microsoft. For example, Sony actually made licensing for PS2 cheaper than PSOne! Another thing is that Cube doesn’t support online and DVD. Finally, N is known to be a kiddy console, so nobody considered making mainstream games on it. Everybody was shocked when a RE title appeared on it, and being ‘shocked’ is not a good indicator here.

Microsoft may have the Bungy team
That is not a really a heavyweight developer. They are a typical dev. team. Compare Halo to other similar games technically, size, scope, etc. what else do they have?
Ever Rare, which Microsoft paid a silly $375million for!!! They sure live up to their name; releasing a game every century!

Microsoft will certainly do more then just well on the US market
Xbox never did well. If it was another company other than Microsoft, they would have gone out of business a long time ago. Xbox is pathetic in revenues. I am not bashing the system, I am referring to how well it is doing in the market, which is terrible.
I do expect Microsoft to step out of the console market if they face the same as what they are facing now. Then again, if they are that rich, they may still take it to another step then call it quits

[Rallyracr420]

MS won't ever quit. They have enough money in their cash reserves to lose money on an XBox2, 3, and 4. What MS is doing is playing strategy...if they control the living room, they can control every device that connects to the outside world thru the living room.

But as they've said, MS knew they wouldn't beat Sony with the XBox. All they wanted was to make a name for themselves which they did very successfully. However this time around MS has no intention of coming in second. Too bad they can't do anything to avoid it.

And its not concerning at all about N's Revolution...they said they would release info at E3 2k5, and they will. Have patience. But don't expect it be anything near the PS3 or XBoxNext. I expect the Revolution to be N's last console, then they'll turn into strictly content producers like Sega did.

[RolandG]

I am confident That PS3 can handle the polygons of War Devil. What I am concerned about is the textures.

Are you really concerned about that? Why would the PS3 not be able to handle them.. any indications so far?

You are right, Nintendo doesn't produce a lot of titles, but I think that the it's enough and the quality is outstanding. They still got the new Zelda and Mario 128 up their sleeves for the gamecube.

Rally.. you may be right about MS. But I haven a feeling that Microsoft isn't going to achieve their goal and dominate the living room. Microsoft has such a big amount of money to work with but still they haven't done anything truly innovative in years. Apple for example managed to do something with the Ipod and Itunes that Microsoft could only dream of......

I really hope Microsoft is going to leave gaming to Sony and Nintendo... but I have a feeling that this isn't quite going to happen.

[PeanutButterMunky]

I am confident That PS3 can handle the polygons of War Devil. What I am concerned about is the textures.
Statements like these make me shutter with anger...

[Z]

I am confident That PS3 can handle the polygons of War Devil. What I am concerned about is the textures.

Are you really concerned about that? Why would the PS3 not be able to handle them.. any indications so far?

Well, better texture is the ONLY reason why Xbox and Cube look better than PS2. yes, some may say there is a different in polygon count, but the polygon count in-games are relatively the same more or less. But because of texture layers, shading and the likes yo have a advantage. I have mentioned this a lot in the past and said that the most important aspect for me that I will be anxious to find out is the texture ability of PS3. so far Sony has nailed EVERYTHING right about PS3, only few little thing remain. I have faith in Sony, I just want something to ease my wait

You are right, Nintendo doesn't produce a lot of titles, but I think that the it's enough and the quality is outstanding. They still got the new Zelda and Mario 128 up their sleeves for the gamecube.

Well look at it this way; what do we know about Revolution? Nothing. Every news, magazines, websites are talking about PS3 & Xenon, but almost no mention about Revolution. Look at the Revolution thread in this site. It hasn’t been used in a month! You have 2000 members at this site and NOBODY posted ANYTHING in it. That is all not very assuring. I wonder what they’ll say at coming e3 and TGS ?
Now, even if N leaves the console market in the future, I do expect them too keep going at the handheld market. And maybe they’ll make a good profit and take another stab at the console world. Who knows?