nVidia shader patent (REYES/Raytracing/GI) destined for PS3?

[j^aws]

The present invention is related to rendering computer animated video and/or images generally, and to adjusting the origins of rays cast for object-edge positions. The present invention includes identifying a location of a vertex positioned on a perimeter of an object defined in the object scene by a plurality of vertices. The plurality of vertices include the vertex positioned on the perimeter of the object. A shading position that corresponds to, but is offset from, the vertex is then established. A shading value is then computed for the vertex by reference to the shading position. The shading value may be computed, for example, by casting a ray from the shading position.

System and method of adjusting ray origins when shading vertices with rays (http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US6825840&F=0&QPN=US6825840)


That patent is from Larry Gritz.
Mr. Gritz is an ex Pixar who founded Ex Luna. ExLuna got acquired by NVIDIA a couple of years ago. NVIDIA also settled some patents litigation between Pixar and ExLuna.
IIRC Gritz also developed BMRT (Blue Moon Rendering Tool) the first renderman compliant interface ray tracer (it used some kind of global illumination algorithm too..) who was used as ray server when PRMAN didn't supported ray tracing.
Now he's working on GELATO. That patent is about ExLuna rendering technology, now owned by NVIDIA.

That patent is about how efficiently merge REYES algorithm with ray tracing.
Larry Gritz started many years ago (when he worked at Pixar) to study how to improve REYES:

BMRT: A Global Illumination Implementation
of the RenderMan Standard (http://www.siggraph.org/education/materials/HyperGraph/radiosity/jgt96.pdf)

ciao,
Marco

With some talk of what PS3 may do prior to this nVidia announcement, this patent would be a suitable match for PS3 and CELL, no? Especially with Peter Hofstee's recent talk of physics based modelling, ray casting etc. With the importance of shading technology next gen, it's the only patent filed by nVidia that mentions REYES, ray-tracing and global illumination that I could find! Even if it's not for PS3, it's still interesting!

Well I hate to speculate, (ahem...yeah right!) but nAo mentioned that ExLuna got bought by nVidia a couple of years ago... and when did nVidia start work on the PS3 GPU...hmm?...Maybe they could implement something from this in hardware for the PS3 GPU? :twisted:

An ideal time to implement something like this would be in a console with a clean sheet designed CPU/GPU architecture?! 8)

Hofstee gamespot CELL video (http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-9398-1266-x-x-x)

B3D Thread (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18849)

[jonm1010]

so does this mean we might have a good chance of seeing ray-casting and such on ps3 afterall?

[ainsley]

So its quite possible that the PS3 will feature ray tracing rendering through its hardware(GPU)? PS3 may be the first piece of hardware on the market to feature hardware ray-tracing..and the only console! Thiers been no info of hardware ray-tracing coming to PC graphics card in the future. Thier are PC graphic demos availible on web that use ray-tracing, but thier incredibly slow and hard to run as thier done through software (using the CPU only not gpu) and thier is no graphics card currently availible that supports ray-tracing. And to think we had no info at all about the PS3s gpu a week ago...

[j^aws]

Hey, I just have this funny feeling and they're always talking about movies and games! ;)

[Dralor]

Jaws I posted this on beyond 3d but I will post it here too. The problem I see with REYES is not that they can not do it but that Nvidia says it is based off of their next generation gpu and I do not see the pc market moving towards REYES anytime soon due to the fact programers are stubborn and do not like to program without backwards compatability. Also I do not think Nvidia would take such a risk unless they had developers already behind them. So either its not going to happen, Nvidia is taking a big risk with their next generation gpu, or they're lying to us about it being a custom part based on their next generation gpu.

[Nirey]

Hey sorry guys, i have not posted in so long since last time. But anyways i am sorry i couldn't say anything about this sweet deal until it was announced since i was under very tight NDA's. Anyways, now it's official, and i would like to say that this is a co-joint collaboration between sony in-house graphics technology and Nvidia technology. What this means is that this "custom-gpu" is a totally different architecture that is not based on an existing architecture from Nvidia.

More will come soon.

[axia777]

Jaws I posted this on beyond 3d but I will post it here too. The problem I see with REYES is not that they can not do it but that Nvidia says it is based off of their next generation gpu and I do not see the pc market moving towards REYES anytime soon due to the fact programers are stubborn and do not like to program without backwards compatability. Also I do not think Nvidia would take such a risk unless they had developers already behind them. So either its not going to happen, Nvidia is taking a big risk with their next generation gpu, or they're lying to us about it being a custom part based on their next generation gpu.

The Next-Gen GPU we are talking about is for PS3, not PC's. It is custom made between nvidia and Sony, you know this, right? So, if they did miraculously figure out how to do REYES in a hardware based way and they put it in PS3, well, the possibilities would be deep for sure. :wink:

[Dralor]

Okay, Nirey so your saying it's not based off Nvidia's next generation Pc archetecture? If so eitheir Nvidia lied to us in their press release about it being a custom version of their next-gen pc arch. or it is just a case of the head not knowing what the body is doing. :?

[julps31]

I think what he was saying was that the PS3 GPU will be based on a next-gen Nvidia architecture, because he said that that it wont be based on any "current" designs.

[axia777]

Sure nvidia is going to put tech in the PS3 GPU that is going to be current with their PC cards at the time, but the design is made to work with the Cell. That means that the design is most likely going to be significatly diffrent than those made for a PC. Think about it. Does the Cell sound like it works like an Intel P4? Not to my knowledge. Supposeidly the Cell can take up some processes for the GPU. To make the GPU take full adavatage of that would change the deisgn yet again. This is all speculation, of course.

[threepac3]

There is alot of speculation that Nvida has cancelled its next generation Computer GPU's and is now going in a whole new direction, who know what this means.

[j^aws]

The inventor of this patent is Larry Grits who used to work in Pixar. He left to form he's own company, Exluna who develeped a rendering technology based on renderman/REYES that was optimixed for ray-tracing and global illumination. Nvidia own this technology and Larry Gritz is now working on Gelato rendering technology with nVidia. Below are some images from Gelato and maybe an indication of PS3 graphics?

Demo image of Gelato's depth of field capability
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/DOF.jpg

Demo image of Gelato's ray-traced shadows
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/filmreel1-1920.jpg

Demo image of Gelato's ray-traced shadow
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/filmreel2-1920.jpg

Demo image of Gelato's ambient occlusion
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/gs.ambient2.jpg

Gelato demo image
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/gs.jpg

Still from an early Gelato animation showing motion blur
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/Hippo_Fly.jpg

Demo image of Gelato showing hair
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/monster.jpg

Ray-traced perfume bottle
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/NvidiaBottle_B.jpg

Model courtesy of Headus
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/killerroo-party.jpg

model courtesy of Headus. Demo image of massive amount of geometry
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/trooperoo-army6.jpg

Tweak Films, Animation frame showing motion blur
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/walrus.jpg

Tweak Films, animation frame
http://film.nvidia.com/docs/CP/10091/crab.jpg

nVidia Gelato
http://film.nvidia.com/page/gelato_gallery.html

Just on an endnote, does anyone remember when Square did their offline render of Final Fantasy the Spirit Within in realtime (obviously scaled down) on Sony GScube? Well they also did this on nVidia hardware around 2001, which is when I suspected something! :P They obviously had similar long term strategy/ R&D of making REYES, what is offline rendering, to something that could become realtime. And what better place to do this than a clean sheet, legacy free console design/architecture with CELL and nVidia GPU! ;)

[GUNDAMSEED]

it's a custom GPU on some sites they forgot to mention that, they also put words out of context . It also makes sense seeing it has to work with cell .

[The_One]

They obviously had similar long term strategy/ R&D of making REYES, what is offline rendering, to something that could become realtime. And what better place to do this than a clean sheet, legacy free console design/architecture with CELL and nVidia GPU! Hmm... There's a thought ;).

Also, were those Gelato demo's rendered in real-time? Or are they just to show what the new tech can provide?

[j^aws]

They obviously had similar long term strategy/ R&D of making REYES, what is offline rendering, to something that could become realtime. And what better place to do this than a clean sheet, legacy free console design/architecture with CELL and nVidia GPU! Hmm... There's a thought ;).

Also, were those Gelato demo's rendered in real-time? Or are they just to show what the new tech can provide?

No, those are offline renders that are a couple of years old, iirc. But may become realtime one day! ;)

[The_One]

Well, hopefully that "one" day comes soon :P.

[Matt]

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