Nvidia says it is doing the entire PS3 GPU (?)

[megadrive]

according Nvidia, in the most recent Nvidia webcast conference, Nvidia is making the PlayStation3 graphics processor in its 'entirety'

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19082

I'll update when I've heard more.

[The_One]

At first, it sounded too good to be true, but it doesn't sound too good now... I'm not too found of nVidia's present endevures and I'm not sure they'll do any good without some head-ups from Sony.

EDIT: Here's a link to the online stream of the conference: http://www.talkpoint.com/content/17720C7F-49B7-4601-9993-DF7181F618CB/70A3801F-92B6-4636-95A6-047F9384D9CB/F89C7480-5118-44DA-8015-8A06C93D9206/3/StreamingMetaFiles/slide001.asx

[megadrive]

I have not yet heard what Nvidia CEO actually said, though I did read the text of what he said that you posted on B3D.

here's a link to the audio of the conference

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=116466&eventID=987534

I'm having problems with it detecting pop-up blockers. and the other option for limited functionality isnt working for me atm

[cpiasminc]

Okay, I listened through the webcast, and the actual statement is a little more vague than that. Earlier in the talk, he did say that the GPU is "based on" nVidia's next-gen technology, and specifically made the point that it is custom-built to leverage the nature of the Cell-based system architecture. It was brought up later, though, that the deal is really an intellectual property deal.


"Although it's structured, ultimately, as a royalty deal, and the reason for that is ... [series of comments on Sony's process technology and manufacturing by Sony]... However the way that I think about it, is it's no different from a chip that I'm building -- I'm building a chip... in it's entirety... and then I think about the gross profits that are consistent with a device like that. And so, the way I think about that is that it's a very high volume strategic design. It's going to run for many many years, and the gross profits that we'd get from something like this should be consistent with one of our GPUs."


They did mention, though, that they'd basically been working with Sony since the very beginning of the PS3 project. So even though the statement suggests that nVidia is probably doing pretty much everything on the GPU, it will be fairly exclusive to the PS3 and work well with it.

While it's likely that nVidia is doing almost everything leaving Sony to do little more than minor changes, all he really said in the conference call is that he approaches it, from a business point of view, as if nVidia is building the chip in its entirety.

[GUNDAMSEED]

okay, well they had to work with sony in one way or another for it to work with CELL so everything should work out .

[megadrive]

thanks for posting your take on it cpiasminc. I've now heard the whole thing. it is somewhat vauge. it does not actually say that Nvidia is making the GPU completely themselves. no doubt Sony has alot of input on it, and probably at least some of their own technology (with Toshiba) like eDRAM.

I don't quiet agree though that Nvidia has been working on PS3 from the beginning. PS3 has been in development a very very long time. since 1999 or 2000 at the latest. Cell was announced in early 2001 but you can bet that is not when Cell was started, or PS3 either. Nvidia has had discussions with Sony for years. I think since 2001. Nvidia started work on PS3 only 2 or 2+ years ago. and only more recently from a hardware standpoint, from what I heard in that conference. originally it was a software/tools partnership and then became a hardware partnership as well.

[Rallyracr420]

I think you're taking their statements too literally. Sony is just saying they went straight to nVidia to do the graphics and didn't look anywhere else. No GS2, no ATI.

[amod20002004]

But what is an exact conclusion of this news. Are there any threats like, Nividia’s GPU might not take full advantage of ps3’s cell or something like that. :?

[Scott R. Mraz]

I think you're taking their statements too literally. Sony is just saying they went straight to nVidia to do the graphics and didn't look anywhere else. No GS2, no ATI.

That is not what the above quote said, nor is that what happened. Sony, as with all console developers muti-thread (for redundancy) the developement of critical components throughout the project until crucial conjuctions are met. It has been reported that Sony & Toshiba have also worked on a GPU together and likely Sony had various other negotiations and design deals (some internal) in works during the duration of the project.

[Domination]

I think you're taking their statements too literally. Sony is just saying they went straight to nVidia to do the graphics and didn't look anywhere else. No GS2, no ATI.

That is not what the above quote said, nor is that what happened. Sony, as with all console developers muti-thread (for redundancy) the developement of critical components throughout the project until crucial conjuctions are met. It has been reported that Sony & Toshiba have also worked on a GPU together and likely Sony had various other negotiations and design deals (some internal) in works during the duration of the project.

I was going to post something very similiar to this, Scott. Maybe nVidia is right about them having a huge part on the GPU they're building for the PS3 with Sony mainly doing the manufacturing. For the longest, it seemed rather difficult to accept until now. But, I believe there's a lot more that lies ahead that not even a few have come to realise. One being, this GPU will be customly built to suit the Cell.

I know it may come off as a bit difficult to understand since it was originally written in Japanease, but try to work with it the best you can:

The next generation game machine which becomes PC graphic Ishiki

Jen-Hsun Huan president and CEO
"Cooperation with the SONY computer entertainment is very important announcement for us. It cannot speak details still, but the next generation PlayStation probably becomes the very powerful platform ",

President of NVIDIA and Jen-Hsun Huang of CEO (the ジェンセン fan) as for the person, December 7th (local time) is held in the conference of the same company which, NVIDIA the next generation PlayStation (PlayStation 3? ) The graphic processor (GPU) the SONY computer entertainment with development (SCEI) with cooperation was announced. With this, it became secure for technology of PC graphics to flow into also PlayStation. Xbox2 to which ATI offers GPU technology (Xenon) with, PS3 of NVIDIA. In the world of the game console, Xbox of current generation (NVIDIA) with GAMECUBE (ATI) continuously, even in the next generation, it came to the point of again red (ATI) with green (NVIDIA) being able to unfold confrontation.

By the way, also Nintendo Co. has tied ATI and cooperation with development of the next generation machine. With this, it is seen that also 3 corporations of SCEI, Microsoft and Nintendo Co., mean to use the technology of the PC GPU vendor in the next generation machine. With the big flow, technology of the graphics of PC and the game machine compared to has shown also the fact that affinity keeps becoming high. The PC game and the technology, from become easy to flow to the game machine. Especially, with technology of graphics the world of the PC game preceding, to be large, influence is large.

There is an impression of being announced abruptly, the cooperation of SCEI and NVIDIA. But, already the basic information of PS3 has appeared in game industry in the NDA base, on game industry side it seems that is already known. In addition, considered as PC industry side, to tell the truth, there were several signs.

First, the information that, around spring 2002, was brought from the PC industry authorized personnel SCEI had the GPU vendor and contact. In addition, around 2002 summer the Hisashi of SCEI 夛 the occasion where the wooden health person (SONY computer entertainment president and group CEO) with it meets well, as for the same person David B. Kirk which is Chief Scientist of NVIDIA (the デビッド ･ B ･ kirk) concerning the person "the cranium it is very and it is the person", that it suggested that it is modification and acquaintance. In addition, the development circumstance of GPU of information and PS3 that altogether is not audible, NVIDIA, in the memory XDR of PS3 DRAM has shown interest, there was the sign that the top of the engine bender of PC game type of the foreign country visits Japan.


- NVIDIA for PS3 expressing the tip/chip media processor

So, NVIDIA making what of PlayStation 3? With release the graphic processor (GPU) with it has become, but Huang of NVIDIA the media processor had classified the product for PS3.

"Media processor business is very important even in home appliance field. We, with the SONY computer entertainment and the other two partners, make PlayStation of the next generation ", (Huang)

Huang, GPU and MCP (Media & Communications Processor) and (Wireless) classifying product category of the same company, into 3 of Media Processor. The cooperation with SCEI was explained other than GoForce as 3rd Media Processor. As for GPU specialization, as for MCP specializing in the media & communication & security, it is combined with GPU in graphics. Vis-a-vis that Media Processor, when you look at the example of GoForce, takes charge of the media processing of all round with the programmable hardware not only graphics. In addition, the Hisashi of SCEI 夛 is good from the time before the wooden person the companion tip/chip which is combined with the Cell processor which is CPU of PS3 was not the graphic engine and it called the "media engine". From these speeches, the tip/chip of NVIDIA is presumed that it is the GPU + MCP, media processor. In other words, it is seen that it mounts also the processing function of non graphics such as audio and network.

In addition, the technology which NVIDIA offers is not restricted to just the hardware.

"Hisashi 夛 well the wooden person cooperating with them concerning our works, said that it is to make the splendid game console. Many elements are included to that. Graphic technology of course is most important. But, also software technology and tool development etc., have occupied the very important part. It cooperates over the wide range "(Huang)

Another NVIDIA staff "as for one of the reasons where the SONY computer entertainment chooses us in the partner, it means that we can cooperate in the software aspect. You explain that the software technology which NVIDIA accumulates was appraised ".

NVIDIA develops shading language "Cg" for the respective company, GPU offers the optimizing compiler. In addition, it develops also the performance analytical tool and the like which is superior. The PS3 tip/chip of NVIDIA is presumed that with the expectation which loads Programmable Shader not to be wrong first, the compiler and the tool etc. of the same company carry out important function. In addition, the possibility NVIDIA having taken charge concerning the middleware of the low level which sticks to GPU is high.

By the way, SCEI contacts the middle wear vendor actively from medium time 2004. SCEI is visible, at the time of PS2 converting policy, with PS3 in order to have stressed to the imagination conversion with software layer. Participation to of the economic organization Khronos Group which decides graphic API "OpenGL ES" for the installation is the one example. Khronos side, as for the purpose where SCEI joins to the same group you declare that is, in order to adopt OpenGL ES 2.0 for PS3. If the technology of NVIDIA GPU is used, from you can agree upon also the movement that, you adopt OpenGL API.

- You start the development of the PS3 media processor from 2 years ago

NVIDIA which makes SCEI and the PS3 tip/chip. Both corporations it probably cooperates just from sometime.

"We it reaching the point where it relates to this platform are 2 - 3 years. Approximately 2 years it is the place where you said. To make GPU technology, fixed time is necessary ", (Huang)

When we assume, that according to explanation Huang it is, as for SCEI and NVIDIA, also the late to the latter half 2002 means to make joint job start. Though, 2 years with the reason which advances easily are improbable.

"There was really, considerably complication. Even when midway beginning to become flame failure, doing that you were impatient ", a certain NVIDIA authorized personnel talks.

Xbox which loads XGPU and XMCP of NVIDIA appearing 2001 November. When of the lead time is thought, SCEI and NVIDIA are thought that already it had started negotiation when Xbox comes out from. As for this, you can think the possibility Xbox producing effect on SCEI.

Actually, as for the GPU industry authorized personnel who is 2002 beginning of the year spring "as for SCEI it was the schedule which originally develops the graphics of PS3 in inside. But, you have heard that Xbox appearing with that much graphic power gave impact to SCEI. Therefore, as for the graphic tip/chip of the next generation machine, you say that at the respective company not only development, it considers also the choices which use the tip/chip of the GPU vendor of PC type. Because of that, the GPU vendor and contact were begun. But, it seems that it is not decisive still it does what kind of selection, ", you said.

By the way, Microsoft ATI and as for making that technology it is cooperative clear 2003 summer in the next generation Xbox. Reverse side circumstance of this still is in the 藪, but naturally, the announcement of Microsoft after SCEI and NVIDIA begin close joint job, means to call.

NVIDIA, with Xbox it produced chip set, sold to Microsoft. So, with PS3 it probably becomes some contract? Will NVIDIA sells the tip/chip in SCEI, or the license do technology? The case of Xbox, as for NVIDIA it was not the license and it was said that sale of the tip/chip was desired. But as for Huang of NVIDIA what as for problem emphasizes in license business that it is not.

"In the concept part, as for the part which is bad to ライセンシング there is no at all. By the fact that the product is sold and the fact that the license is offered, there is no difference in at all itself selling. In order to make the product like PlayStation, we must work full time the highest engineer. Such as that that we do, it is brain business and intellectual property business. If energy is made to concentrate on development of the product, the return which it corresponds to that becomes necessary. Is just that ",

Huang this way showed the attitude that the return with license agreement or does not care with tip/chip sale. Actually, production Fab SCEI/ SONY/from the fact that it is the Toshiba affiliation, SCEI does ファウンダリ of NVIDIA with is difficult to think. The latest cooperation is presumed that the possibility of taking the license form of core technology is high.

So, the PS3 media processor of NVIDIA it probably becomes some form. This, from the speech of former NVIDIA, is estimate is possible. As for the next time, we would like to report this point.

In the patent (I forget what it was), it mentions something about Sony having something to do with a GPU, or so we thought. And although it's still pretty much a rumor, the people at IGN thinks that maybe the PS3 could have multiple GPUs. Not only this, but even after the two year working cycle nVidia had with Sony on this GPU, Sony mentioned the PS3 retaining backwards compatibility with the PS2 and even the PS1 library through emulation, in which they placed an ad on for the position not too long ago. My guess is, nVidia will be building a GPU to take the work load off the Cell while Sony may be building something very similiar to the way the graphics synthesizer works as an alternative processor, possibly.

[Rallyracr420]

I digress...I meant that what MegaDrive was picking at was taken too literally. Just because nVidia started a few years after the Cell was developed doesn't mean that Sony 'settled' with nVidia.

And that's a cool translation you picked up about the GPU being tied into the MCP. I'm not even sure what to expect out of this other than it probably just helps Sony lower the production cost of the chips (I can't see any benefit a GPU can obtain by being hardwired into the wireless chip).

That is not what the above quote said, nor is that what happened. Sony, as with all console developers muti-thread (for redundancy) the developement of critical components throughout the project until crucial conjuctions are met. It has been reported that Sony & Toshiba have also worked on a GPU together and likely Sony had various other negotiations and design deals (some internal) in works during the duration of the project.


I haven't seen any of that news...you have any links?

[cpiasminc]

Well, one of the things I heard in the call and is also in the news on wince.ne.jp that you quoted (kinda hard to see through the babelfishing, but in the original Japanese, it's there)... is that nVidia is essentially letting Sony take the IP and "run off with it" as they please. And apparently test silicon will be hit before the end of the year.

Obviously, at least a few things had to be implemented into the samples by nVidia based on XDR and Redwood chip-to-chip interconnects and so on...

[kevindenoyette]

On the whole I see no cause for concern here. It's pretty plausible that sony played a large role in the development of said GPU, and I'm sure they did whatever was necessary to make it suit the needs of cell.

[julps31]

On the whole I see no cause for concern here. It's pretty plausible that sony played a large role in the development of said GPU, and I'm sure they did whatever was necessary to make it suit the needs of cell.
I agree. I never thought of Sony as the company that would let another company like Nvidia do something that wouldn't work well together. Since it seems like Sonys working so hard on the PS3 with its features (Blu-ray, xdr-ram, cell) I know they wouldn't let Nvidia do a half assed job.

[Omega Blue]

all of you are reading WAY to much into a few comments.

[Matt]

Post here please:

http://www.psinext.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4222