HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray

[reaper673]

Ive heard alot about these two and in relation to the new consoles, Ive heard that Microsoft and Nintendo will support HD-DVD and Sony with Blu-Ray. While what Ive heard about Nintendo is completely unfounded, I would like to know what each disc type can do and what would make them ideal for gaming.

[kevind360]

i think their both the same thing except one of them has more storage..i really have no idea....

[Lord Darkblade]

Totally different...

Both new formats use a blue violet laser and the same 4 compressions formats (Mpeg2, Mpeg4, WMC9 and another iirc).

However:

Blu-ray:
=====
Benefits:
Transfer speeds are faster. Has layers which hold 25Gb, has upto 8 stackable layers/disc (single sided). You can mount 2 Blu Ray layers and a DVD or CD layer on the same disc.

Flaws:
Costs slightly more, however existing techniques are being modified to make it cheaper and use exisitng product lines.

HD-DVD:
======
Benefits:
Cheaper at current.

Flaws:
Lower transfer rates, 20Gb for first layer, 35Gb for Dual Layer. Cannot use multiple layers and combine with DVD or CD layer.

Basically Blu-ray is the far superior format however is slighlty more expensive (it is designed with ~10 year life in mind), HD-DVD is cheaper however has been designed as an interim format (so we would move to blu-ray after another 5 years or so... basically its a marketing ploy).

The DVD forum has endorsed HD-DVD, however it cannot endorse Blu-Ray as this is not based off of DVD technology so does not fall under their umbrella- this is held up as a point however is irrelavent.

Currently many technology companies back Blu-Ray as do the non-corporate owned studios that have sided. Of course Sony and Toshiba owned/share holding studios have announced for their formats respectively as well.

Nintendo are rumoured to be using HD-DVD next generation and XBox may as well, however there is no confirmation on these and it would be better for these companies to probably side with Sony on Blu-Ray and quell the format war before it starts (Sony are using Blu-Ray in the PS3, which means that if sales match the PS2 there will be 85Million Blu-Ray players in homes...)

HD-DVD is launching this year, Blu-Ray next year.

[threepac3]

Good post but somethings are incorrect as far as i know. Firstly, I think the rumor that Xbox 2 will support HD-Dvd is unfounded due that fact that HD-Dvd's spec.s have not been finalized yet and there for can't be adopted by a producted due out this yea. In other words Microsoft can't comission a product to be manufactured when it still in prototype stage (Microsoft is a software company not a hardware company).

The Dvd forum will never support Blu-ray do to the fact that its based on its own technology and not a evolution of the current standard.

[senas8]

Good post but somethings are incorrect as far as i know. Firstly, I think the rumor that Xbox 2 will support HD-Dvd is unfounded due that fact that HD-Dvd's spec.s have not been finalized yet and there for can't be adopted by a producted due out this yea. In other words Microsoft can't comission a product to be manufactured when it still in prototype stage (Microsoft is a software company not a hardware company).

The Dvd forum will never support Blu-ray do to the fact that its based on its own technology and not a evolution of the current standard.
LOL...if xbox2 is to come out this year...the end of this year...xbox will support HD-DVD....DUH :roll:

[psychogenicscc]

The Blu-ray vs HD-dvd thing should be squashed..... Hd-dvd is just primative when compared to Blu.Yes the Main reason is Storage space and initail cost.

Advantage Blu:
Blu-ray was developed by Sony's Broadband Dept. "Thats where bluray was thought up" Along side of CELL...Both were made for interactivity with the internet.
Aside From that Blu-ray really started to take off as more manufactures joined in like Panasonic..... Remember Manufacturers are going to be pumping out Players onto the market and since their are 10 they will find Cheaper methods to reduce cost of Blu.
Also since Sony brought out MGM Blu-ray will have Bond exclusively.
Sony also stressed on the interactivity of Blu-ray but I'm not sure how much more interactive Blu will be over HD-DVD but I will say that it will be easier to make it interactive.
Blu-ray also has the ability to record on Empty spaces on Disk unlike the DVD's of today where you have to record over Data.
Cost of Blu-ray will go Down to be 10% cheaper to produce than todays DVD's
Sony is onboard so you know that the advertisment will be Hot. :twisted:


Advantage Hd-dvd:
All I can really think of is Initail cost of manufacturing....... Them having Warner and Paramount is only a temporary thing since I'm sure that Blu-ray will appeal to most people.

[*G*spot]

Thanks for the education guys, because I really had no idea. Now, I have some idea. :wink:

[Grandia]

I'm getting the feeling that HD-DVD is going to trounce Blu-Ray. It seems to have lots of things going for it lately. (HD-DVD/DVD, Huge amount of support, lower cost, etc. etc. etc.) Hope I'm wrong, seeing as I want Blu-Ray to beat HD-DVD.

[The_One]

I'm getting the feeling that HD-DVD is going to trounce Blu-Ray. It seems to have lots of things going for it lately. (HD-DVD/DVD, Huge amount of support, lower cost, etc. etc. etc.) Hope I'm wrong, seeing as I want Blu-Ray to beat HD-DVD. There seems to be as much support for HD-DVD as Blu-Ray. So I'm not too worried.

[solidus]

I believe BD-ROM boasts a small lead after Disney and EA announced their support
Not to forget Sony is supporting the platform and will feature it in their Ps3 console, which guarantees an impressive user base

[SolidSnake05]

is it a fact that xbox2 will have hd-dvd? and if so will it be the first hd-dvd player or are they goin on sell b4 xbox2 if it comes out later this year?

[kevindenoyette]

I'm getting the feeling that HD-DVD is going to trounce Blu-Ray. It seems to have lots of things going for it lately. (HD-DVD/DVD, Huge amount of support, lower cost, etc. etc. etc.) Hope I'm wrong, seeing as I want Blu-Ray to beat HD-DVD.


Don't be fooled, hd-dvd/dvd, blu-ray can do blu-ray/dvd/cd, so that's not really a plus, support is about the same with currently a slight advantage to blu-ray, cost is a factor yeah, but it shouldn't matter too much when production gets up.

[Rallyracr420]

There's enough misinformation in this thread to choke a heard of cows.

[psychogenicscc]

There's enough misinformation in this thread to choke a heard of cows.

Do you care to enlighten the misinformed instead of just sayin' so.

http://blu-ray.com/ , http://www.hddvd.org/hddvd/

[MiThRaZoR]

http://blu-ray.com/faq/#3.2

Compares it.. And Xbox2 might use HD-DVD because HD is coming out this year and BD the next. So they might. That's their only choice to. Unless they keep going with DVDs.

[thugbug12]

I really hope Microsoft goes with Blu-Ray as it is a superior format in my eyes.

[Rallyracr420]

Both new formats use a blue violet laser and the same 4 compressions formats (Mpeg2, Mpeg4, WMC9 and another iirc).
There's only 3 codecs in use: H.264, MPEG2, and VC1

however existing techniques are being modified to make it cheaper and use exisitng product lines.
You cannot use existing production lines with Blu-Ray. New equipment must be purchased. However this new equipment is supposed to be smaller than the DVD pressing equipment, so that means the same facility could hold more Blu-Ray pressing machine than DVD/HD-DVD pressing machines. This will help lower cost by increasing production.

Flaws:
Lower transfer rates, 20Gb for first layer, 35Gb for Dual Layer. Cannot use multiple layers and combine with DVD or CD layer.

Data transfer rates are the same for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. 36Mbps. Also, HD-DVD only holds 15GB per layer, meaning 30GB for dual layer.

I think the rumor that Xbox 2 will support HD-Dvd is unfounded due that fact that HD-Dvd's spec.s have not been finalized yet
There is no rumor. The only thing that's EVER been said about XBox2 and HD-DVD is that the DVD forum is trying to sway MS. But guess what, so is Blu-Ray. Also, HD-DVD specs have already been finalized. Blu-Ray read-only specs have not.

I'm not sure how much more interactive Blu will be over HD-DVD but I will say that it will be easier to make it interactive.
I'm not saying you said something wrong with this one, but I'll clarify: HD-DVD is designed with the EXACT same interactivity as DVDs. The only interactivity you'll have is going to different menus. With Blu-Ray every player will be manufactured with the ability to access the internet, so interactive content will definitely be there. However other than downloading subtitles in any language, no examples have been given.

Don't be fooled, hd-dvd/dvd, blu-ray can do blu-ray/dvd/cd
Yes there's a HD-DVD/DVD combo, and yes there's both Blu-Ray/CD and Blu-Ray/DVD combos, but no Blu-Ray/DVD/CD combo.

[Lord Darkblade]

I thought that I provided a fair analysis of the formats, if I got something wrong then please tell me what as I would like to know.

MS may well go with Blu-ray as it is the competing format, however MS might be willing to take a hit on profit in the short time and go with a blu-ray drive as they are available. MS could make a deal with Sony, essentially waiving the blu-ray licensing fees in return for waiving the wm9 codec fees. Dong so would basically stop a format war and put MS in on the ground floor, last time DVD play back was a major thing for some people. By making themselves it a cheap blu-ray player then they could take market share.

Nintendo are launching at the same time as the PS3 so could easily fit a blu-ray drive, by waiting they get to see which is going to win... and swopping a drive is a minor thing in the grand scheme of things.

Blu-ray should win however the average consumer does not generally care about the specs or what is going to happen in 10 years or so and bases their choices on price.

Looking at the formats objectively:

Now filling a 9Gb DVD now seems odd to most people (though 2 PS3 discs have done so that I know of) however 9GB is getting quite small, a regular movie will fill what 3Gb, HD is 4-6 times more than this so we could easily fill a DVD. Games and suchlike will be easily able to as well. More space is better here.

Going with compatability, as people will not move all at once to a new format, while HD-DVD could easily mount a bluray layer, doing so would leave it as a single layer disc. Blu Ray however could mount multple layers (theoretically ~6 Blu Ray layers and 2 DVD layers (sound amazing, currently I believe they have a single layer but the tecnology may allow for this as 3 blu-ray layers could feasibly fit below the DVD layer). Doing this will mean that you have a single release of a movie which is compatible with both both technologies...

Finally costs, blu-ray sucks here right now however its getting better- this is where most conumers actually care about stuff so this is where the fight is actually going to be.

[Lord Darkblade]

Both new formats use a blue violet laser and the same 4 compressions formats (Mpeg2, Mpeg4, WMC9 and another iirc).
There's only 3 codecs in use: H.264, MPEG2, and VC1


As I said, iirc.


however existing techniques are being modified to make it cheaper and use exisitng product lines.
You cannot use existing production lines with Blu-Ray. New equipment must be purchased. However this new equipment is supposed to be smaller than the DVD pressing equipment, so that means the same facility could hold more Blu-Ray pressing machine than DVD/HD-DVD pressing machines. This will help lower cost by increasing production.


Yes you can, there is a branch of research working on adapting current lines, adapted lines are far cheaper than new lines... cuts costs. Remember that most people only see the short term here, Sony and a few others were working on the adaptions to make it cheaper in the short term though most would want to refit properly for the longer term.


Flaws:
Lower transfer rates, 20Gb for first layer, 35Gb for Dual Layer. Cannot use multiple layers and combine with DVD or CD layer.

Data transfer rates are the same for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. 36Mbps. Also, HD-DVD only holds 15GB per layer, meaning 30GB for dual layer.


Well according to Toshiba pre-written discs are 15/15, rewritable discs are 20/32... I may be wrong but they seem pretty confident about their specs... However they are the same speeds, my bad.


I think the rumor that Xbox 2 will support HD-Dvd is unfounded due that fact that HD-Dvd's spec.s have not been finalized yet
There is no rumor. The only thing that's EVER been said about XBox2 and HD-DVD is that the DVD forum is trying to sway MS. But guess what, so is Blu-Ray. Also, HD-DVD specs have already been finalized. Blu-Ray read-only specs have not.


MS has been rumoured to consder it, the whole point of a rumour is that it is unsubstantiated. It is the current other player in this field and will be available earlier, so it may well be considered.


I'm not sure how much more interactive Blu will be over HD-DVD but I will say that it will be easier to make it interactive.
I'm not saying you said something wrong with this one, but I'll clarify: HD-DVD is designed with the EXACT same interactivity as DVDs. The only interactivity you'll have is going to different menus. With Blu-Ray every player will be manufactured with the ability to access the internet, so interactive content will definitely be there. However other than downloading subtitles in any language, no examples have been given.



Yes their have, updateable menus, changing ads etc... all kind of suck but they have been proposed...



Don't be fooled, hd-dvd/dvd, blu-ray can do blu-ray/dvd/cd
Yes there's a HD-DVD/DVD combo, and yes there's both Blu-Ray/CD and Blu-Ray/DVD combos, but no Blu-Ray/DVD/CD combo.
[/quote]

Not currently, however their coud be, Blu ray layers in the start of the disc with a CD layer and a DVD layer on top (similar to dual layer) or split over two sides, blu-ray technology uses smaller layers of the disc so can easily be split...

[psychogenicscc]

[quote]
Data transfer rates are the same for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. 36Mbps. Also, HD-DVD only holds 15GB per layer, meaning 30GB for dual layer.

I believe that Blu-ray also has faster speeds in the work with 72mbps being the next level so No they won't have the same transfer speed just initailly.

[stuffedsquirrel222]

I personally think that Blu-Ray is going to win, since it is being released later. I think the average consumer is going to see the launch of HD-DVD as unnecessary, and that DVDs fit them just fine. But when the launch of Blu-Ray comes along they will realize that the reality is that times are changing and they are going to have to get something, or be left with normal DVD, which will be THOROUGHLY outdated at that point, with the realease of an ENTIRE two new formats. And they are going to want to latest and greatest.

"Everything today is thoroughly modern" -Thoroughly Modern Millie

[psychogenicscc]

Blu-ray has to launch here in the states by 2006 since its when TV station will convert to HDTV signals.

[Grandia]

But won't HD-DVD have a clear year before Blu-Ray?

[psychogenicscc]

But won't HD-DVD have a clear year before Blu-Ray?

I didn't say that it would let HD-DVD get a whole year in.....People will see HD-DVD drives and not buy it since most will wait for Blu-ray to be out to Compare them First Hand.

BTW here's more info http://blu-raytalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=60

[WillHavePS3]

One deciding factor i dont believe anyone has touched on is compatability. it depends on what people are looking for. as what many people stated, the formats are different. blu-ray can hold more per layer but HD-DVD is backwards compatable (meaning that you CANNOT play your dvds on your playstation but you will with your Xbox2 and nintendo if nintendo will actually go towards the HD-DVD format). but never fear, the movie industry is trying to decide what format they will use for their High Definition movies. its between blu-ray and HD-DVD. but with sony having "sony pictures" they are definitely pushing for a format compatible with their console (as well as miramax and universal). if im correct i believe warner bros. and a few others are pushing for HD-DVD format for their movies. But this situation shouldnt harm anything now because whom ever has dvd's "should" already have a dvd player to watch them on. Blu-ray added with the greater power (supposidly) that the PS3 has will cause some issues with other console companies. i really hope that the PS3 uses all of that added space (on disc) to crush the competition.

OH, AND ANOTHER THING I COMPLETELY FORGOT. not to give Xbox2 any leverage but because xbox will be using HD-DVD it will be very possible to be backwards compatible with the XBOX games. as for Playstation3 using the blu-ray technology it will not be backwards compatible with the PS2 or psONE.

[Ouroboros]

meaning that you CANNOT play your dvds on your playstation but you will with your Xbox2 and nintendo
PS3 will be backwards compatable with ps2 and ps1? games therefore it wiil play blu-ray dvds and cds (it is most likely that xbox2 will not be backwards compatable with xbox games due to nvidia patent and emulation problems and microsoft not thinking backwards compatability is important).

[BlueTsunami]

Ouroboros is right, the PS3 is made to be backwards compatible with PSX and PS2 ( http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=pub&aid=2171 ). Theres an article that states that the PS3 will be backwards compatible. Through emulation (I believe) this is done. They can also have some sort of dual drive, that can read DVD's and Blu-Ray disks.

[WillHavePS3]

meaning that you CANNOT play your dvds on your playstation but you will with your Xbox2 and nintendo
PS3 will be backwards compatable with ps2 and ps1? games therefore it wiil play blu-ray dvds and cds (it is most likely that xbox2 will not be backwards compatable with xbox games due to nvidia patent and emulation problems and microsoft not thinking backwards compatability is important).

Blu-ray technology isnt able to read the dvd format...so the playstation 3 will not be able to be backwards compatible. as for the Xbox2, i did say that it was possible i didnt say it was definite. if it turns out that it will not be backwards compatible it wont be because of the format it will be because of the company or companies in colaboration with the Xbox2.

[WillHavePS3]

Ouroboros is right, the PS3 is made to be backwards compatible with PSX and PS2 ( http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=pub&aid=2171 ). Theres an article that states that the PS3 will be backwards compatible. Through emulation (I believe) this is done. They can also have some sort of dual drive, that can read DVD's and Blu-Ray disks.

in order for them to pull that off they would have to have some sort of "dual drive" or a "two lens" drive to pull this off. if not then it will not be possible.

then you must ask....will the PS3 have a dual drive? and if not then how will they make the compatablity possible? if they can make it possible then will it really be a blu-ray lens? Could they modify the lens to pick up that format? i mean dont get me wrong, it could be possible i guess but my information comes right from the companies that develop the blu-ray and HD-DVD themselves through my general research.

[Brandon]

Blu-ray technology isnt able to read the dvd format...so the playstation 3 will not be able to be backwards compatible. as for the Xbox2, i did say that it was possible i didnt say it was definite. if it turns out that it will not be backwards compatible it wont be because of the format it will be because of the company or companies in colaboration with the Xbox2.
It won't cost them that much to implement another laser that's able to read CD/DVD/PS2 games. I believe Sony already stated they want to continue the backwards compatibility trend with the PS3. I'm sure they what they're doing with modification/laser lens implementation.

[kevindenoyette]

there's already a drive out that reads blu-ray/dvd/cd, backwards compatibility has been confirmed.

[Rallyracr420]

meaning that you CANNOT play your dvds on your playstation but you will with your Xbox2 and nintendo
PS3 will be backwards compatable with ps2 and ps1? games therefore it wiil play blu-ray dvds and cds (it is most likely that xbox2 will not be backwards compatable with xbox games due to nvidia patent and emulation problems and microsoft not thinking backwards compatability is important).

Blu-ray technology isnt able to read the dvd format...so the playstation 3 will not be able to be backwards compatible. as for the Xbox2, i did say that it was possible i didnt say it was definite. if it turns out that it will not be backwards compatible it wont be because of the format it will be because of the company or companies in colaboration with the Xbox2.

I figured I'd also jump in line to tell you you're wrong. It was an old CNN article that started a rumor that Blu-Ray drives wouldn't be able to read DVDs. This is WRONG. Any Blu-Ray player you buy at the stores, or online, either for your PC or for your home entertainment center, WILL PLAY DVDs. This is on Blu-Ray's website, and I'm sure Blu-Ray knows more about its own technology than some crappy CNN correspondent. Plus, as it was already stated, some 80% of PS2 games are on DVD and these games will be playable on the PS3, so that means the PS3 and its Blu-Ray drive will have to read DVDs.

And for my corrective post earlier, I'd like to see links about Blu-Ray coming out with a transfer rate of 72Mbps. I'd also like to see where they say Blu-Rays can be pressed using old DVD equipment. Also throw in the source link about HD-DVD menus being updatable with changing ads. And while you're at it, show me the source of this rumor that XBox is going to use HD-DVD (the rumor only exists on forums and was dreamt up by the same people who still believe 3 PowerPC processors will outperform the Cell. its pure speculation based on the fact that many people don't see MS licensing Sony's Blu-Ray technology. it hasn't even reached rumor stage other than idiots who don't check their sources help to spread gossip like wildfire).

[BlueTsunami]

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#2.4

2.4 Will Blu-ray support playback of DVDs?



Yes, this is often incorrectly stated as an advantage of HD-DVD, but all that is required is a BD/DVD/CD compatible optical head. Several leading consumer electronics companies (including Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung and LG) have already demonstrated products that can read and write DVDs and Blu-ray Discs, so you don't have to worry about your existing DVD collection becoming obsolete. Although it's up to each manufacturer to decide if they make their products backwards compatible with DVD, the format is far too popular to not be supported. With the vast amount of Blu-ray products that will be coming out, this will be an important feature for consumers.

This is from the Blu-Ray site www.Blue-ray.com

[BlueTsunami]

I just Googled this....

Philips was quick to announce their first PC triple format hybrid recorder, supporting the next generation Blu-ray format. The drive is about to be presented in Las Vegas at the CES 2005 expo. So the HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray war is soon about to really begin, as consumer ready solutions are entering the market. It is however questionable, is there yet a demand for the next generation formats. After all, DVD recordable technology has not really evolved to a mature stage yet. Film studios have expected the new format to hit the market in 2006.
he Dutch company, together with a group of other powerful electronics makers including Sony Corp, Hewlett-Packard and Dell , is proposing the Blu-ray format which can store up to 50 Gigabytes of data on a disc.

This level of storage allows film publishers to put a full-length movie in the high-definition format on one disc.
...
The new Philips drive has three lasers, including Blu-ray's blue laser which has a shorter wavelength than current red lasers, allowing for a thinner light beam that can read and write smaller bits of information on a disc.

From http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/5920.cfm


Source: www.Reuters.com

[WillHavePS3]

meaning that you CANNOT play your dvds on your playstation but you will with your Xbox2 and nintendo
PS3 will be backwards compatable with ps2 and ps1? games therefore it wiil play blu-ray dvds and cds (it is most likely that xbox2 will not be backwards compatable with xbox games due to nvidia patent and emulation problems and microsoft not thinking backwards compatability is important).

Blu-ray technology isnt able to read the dvd format...so the playstation 3 will not be able to be backwards compatible. as for the Xbox2, i did say that it was possible i didnt say it was definite. if it turns out that it will not be backwards compatible it wont be because of the format it will be because of the company or companies in colaboration with the Xbox2.

I figured I'd also jump in line to tell you you're wrong. It was an old CNN article that started a rumor that Blu-Ray drives wouldn't be able to read DVDs. This is WRONG. Any Blu-Ray player you buy at the stores, or online, either for your PC or for your home entertainment center, WILL PLAY DVDs. This is on Blu-Ray's website, and I'm sure Blu-Ray knows more about its own technology than some crappy CNN correspondent. Plus, as it was already stated, some 80% of PS2 games are on DVD and these games will be playable on the PS3, so that means the PS3 and its Blu-Ray drive will have to read DVDs.

And for my corrective post earlier, I'd like to see links about Blu-Ray coming out with a transfer rate of 72Mbps. I'd also like to see where they say Blu-Rays can be pressed using old DVD equipment. Also throw in the source link about HD-DVD menus being updatable with changing ads. And while you're at it, show me the source of this rumor that XBox is going to use HD-DVD (the rumor only exists on forums and was dreamt up by the same people who still believe 3 PowerPC processors will outperform the Cell. its pure speculation based on the fact that many people don't see MS licensing Sony's Blu-Ray technology. it hasn't even reached rumor stage other than idiots who don't check their sources help to spread gossip like wildfire).

this piece is directly from the blu-ray.com website.

Sony Develops Single Optical Head for Blu-ray Disc, DVD and CD
Sony has successfully developed a single three-wavelength optical head, capable of recording and playing next-generation Blu-ray Discs, as well as conventional DVDs and CDs without requiring an extra optical head for backwards compatibility.( this hybrid didnt exist when blu-ray was originally announced) The technology requires less parts, is cheaper to produce and provides full backwards compatibility with current DVD/CD formats. Sony will target commercializing the newly developed optical head within 2 years(by the time the PS3 will arrive), and will positively promote to further technology development. By doing so, in addition to further reducing the number of parts used for achieving smaller size of optical heads, enhancement of productivity and reliability will be achieved.


In essence i was wrong. i wasnt updated on the new information of Blu-ray implimented by sony. originally when sony announce this there was information floating on gamespot as well as psinext about the incompatability of the blu-ray laser and dvd's from PS2. i was right until sony (being the smart company that they are) made a hybrid drive. glad that i was enlightend by my fellow members.

and as for the hd-dvd rumors in regards to the XBOX2 here you go......

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/6924/HD-DVD-Promotion-Group-Wants-to-Power-Xbox-2

even though its not official like the way ps3 announced its marriage with blu-ray. there's the rumor site that you asked for. OH, and its not a forum....so its not idiots just trying to blow smoke at us. it is really posted on unofficial xbox sites and drive sites as well.


also, this is just a piece of a clip off this website as well.....

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/577/577955p1.html

Since Sony's forthcoming PlayStation 3 will support Blu-ray, it should come as no surprise that Electronic Arts and Vivendi Universal, two of the biggest console game vendors in the market, have joined the Blu-ray Disc Association and will publish games in the Blu-ray format. That's a setback for Microsoft's Xbox 2, which has been leaning toward HD-DVD, but is not committed as yet. Microsoft will announce the Xbox 2 details at E3 later this year.

[The_One]

Since Sony's forthcoming PlayStation 3 will support Blu-ray, it should come as no surprise that Electronic Arts and Vivendi Universal, two of the biggest console game vendors in the market, have joined the Blu-ray Disc Association and will publish games in the Blu-ray format. That's a setback for Microsoft's Xbox 2, which has been leaning toward HD-DVD, but is not committed as yet. Microsoft will announce the Xbox 2 details at E3 later this year. Somehow, I think M$ will jump on the Blu-Ray band wagon simply to get support from Devs that's going to release games in that format... Sure, they'll pay Sony some royalties, but it's not like Sony can jack up the price simply for M$ (there are contracts/rules for licensing fees, which prevents the licenser from jacking up the price after licensing something), so I don't think it'll be such a big setback for M$ if they do use Blu-Ray.

[WillHavePS3]

Since Sony's forthcoming PlayStation 3 will support Blu-ray, it should come as no surprise that Electronic Arts and Vivendi Universal, two of the biggest console game vendors in the market, have joined the Blu-ray Disc Association and will publish games in the Blu-ray format. That's a setback for Microsoft's Xbox 2, which has been leaning toward HD-DVD, but is not committed as yet. Microsoft will announce the Xbox 2 details at E3 later this year. Somehow, I think M$ will jump on the Blu-Ray band wagon simply to get support from Devs that's going to release games in that format... Sure, they'll pay Sony some royalties, but it's not like Sony can jack up the price simply for M$ (there are contracts/rules for licensing fees, which prevents the licenser from jacking up the price after licensing something), so I don't think it'll be such a big setback for M$ if they do use Blu-Ray.

You could be right, but i dont think that microsoft would convert that easily or for the fact that devs will be developing games issued in the blu-ray format. take EA sports for example; the are definitely developing their games for the blu-ray technology (like Madden 2007), however, Microsoft cancelled their version of football games (ultimately knowing that they will have a line of football games coming from EA besides the other reasons for the cancellation of its development "meaning microsofts football game") for that reason they will know that developers like EA will have available alot of games in the HD-DVD format. What i think Mircosoft is really contemplating is the size that the HD-DVD's themselves will come in (knowing that Blu-ray disc can hold more). They dont WANT TO SEEM like they are jumping the band wagon if they decide to go with the blu-ray laser (even though thats how we "us playstation lovers" will take it as). i think that microsoft (if they actually pick HD-DVD) would rather have "double disc" games than to have to pay sony for their hybrid. Besides, its not only microsoft we're talking about here. The developers of the HD-DVD format are trying to climb up microsofts tree in order to have them consider their format. so it could work out for microsoft when it comes to the pricing of developing these drives to put into the XBOX2. If microsoft is smart they can also have movie production studios on their side as well. when a movie comes out they can have the xbox logo on it ex. "compatible with the xbox2 HD-DVD disc drive". thats the same thing that PS2 did with alot of the dvd's that came from WWE entertainment (wrestiling). Microsoft has options besides blu-ray. all they have to really do is just excercise them.

[Rallyracr420]

this piece is directly from the blu-ray.com website.

Sony Develops Single Optical Head for Blu-ray Disc, DVD and CD
Sony has successfully developed a single three-wavelength optical head, capable of recording and playing next-generation Blu-ray Discs, as well as conventional DVDs and CDs without requiring an extra optical head for backwards compatibility.( this hybrid didnt exist when blu-ray was originally announced) The technology requires less parts, is cheaper to produce and provides full backwards compatibility with current DVD/CD formats. Sony will target commercializing the newly developed optical head within 2 years(by the time the PS3 will arrive), and will positively promote to further technology development. By doing so, in addition to further reducing the number of parts used for achieving smaller size of optical heads, enhancement of productivity and reliability will be achieved.

Umm I knew this already... you didn't post the info I was asking for.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/6924/HD-DVD-Promotion-Group-Wants-to-Power-Xbox-2

even though its not official like the way ps3 announced its marriage with blu-ray. there's the rumor site that you asked for. OH, and its not a forum....so its not idiots just trying to blow smoke at us. it is really posted on unofficial xbox sites and drive sites as well.

Yeah I knew this too. I posted this originally and will stick to what I said: there is no rumor of XBox2 including HD-DVD other than the DVD forum trying to sway MS...but guess what, so is the Blu-Ray group. Since this is true we might as well say that there's rumors Blu-Ray will be in the XBox2. Source: http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000227026363/
"When we asked the Blu-ray association directly if they were actively courting Microsoft to use Blu-ray in the next generation Xbox 2 system, they told us to go ask Microsoft (yes, that puzzles us too, so it may provide a hint of the way Microsoft is leaning). "

[GUNDAMSEED]

The funny thing is that if MS comes out first and used HD DVD and it does not win the Format war it could mean trouble . It seem right now that it's mostly movie companies pushing for HD DVD, while blu ray has backing from all the sectors , from gaming to movies and pc . Also anime since bandia is on board Gundam rules all.

Also sony has content they can put on blu ray it only matter of time until u see Bond and his friends show up on blu ray . I pro ps3 but it would suck if MS uses HD DVD then blu ray wins on movies . i know the same thing could happen with sony but they still have movies that they could put out while ms does not .

As for big N i don't even think they care about movie play back to tell you the truth , they might make there own format or something like that there were never the ones to jump on the band wagon with new tech .

But then i don't see blu ray or HD DVD movies going main stream any time soon since most people don't have HD set ups . If that the case i think MS should go with blu ray it can put in triple laser lens so it can still play dvd but for games it could use blu ray rom.

Side note i don't use my ps2 to watch movie and same thing will mostly happen with ps3 to me stand alone players are better . I am not talking about PC by the way .

[Lumine]

The bluRay devices will be able to read dvd, but will they be able to read hd-dvds? also, as I understand it to get backward compatibility they add extra arms with lasers on them, but I guess they can now do the special lens thing. Is there a limit to the number of extra arms that can go on a reader?

[Darknight]

If XB2 specs are already pretty much locked down, then I don't see XB2 using either HD-DVD, or Blu-Ray.

Bear in mind that these formats are very new, and very expensive. MS don't want to be losing money on their new console, so they will probably go with the tried and tested DVD format.

Lumine Blu-Ray is not compatible with HD-DVD, and I doubt that it ever will be. Competing formats generally have trouble coming together (did you ever see a VHS/Betamax combi machine? :lol:).

And Rallyracr is right, there is no evidence of Microsoft going with either of the next gen formats, just HD-DVD saying that they want Microsoft to support them so that the HD-DVD format doesn't completely sink when PS3 comes out.

[threepac3]

If XB2 specs are already pretty much locked down, then I don't see XB2 using either HD-DVD, or Blu-Ray.

Bear in mind that these formats are very new, and very expensive. MS don't want to be losing money on their new console, so they will probably go with the tried and tested DVD format.

Lumine Blu-Ray is not compatible with HD-DVD, and I doubt that it ever will be. Competing formats generally have trouble coming together (did you ever see a VHS/Betamax combi machine? :lol:).

And Rallyracr is right, there is no evidence of Microsoft going with either of the next gen formats, just HD-DVD saying that they want Microsoft to support them so that the HD-DVD format doesn't completely sink when PS3 comes out.

Hence the word "rumor"... (1. generally circulated story, report, or statement without facts to confirm its truth, 2. general talk or opinion of uncertain reliability)

[WillHavePS3]

this piece is directly from the blu-ray.com website.

Sony Develops Single Optical Head for Blu-ray Disc, DVD and CD
Sony has successfully developed a single three-wavelength optical head, capable of recording and playing next-generation Blu-ray Discs, as well as conventional DVDs and CDs without requiring an extra optical head for backwards compatibility.( this hybrid didnt exist when blu-ray was originally announced) The technology requires less parts, is cheaper to produce and provides full backwards compatibility with current DVD/CD formats. Sony will target commercializing the newly developed optical head within 2 years(by the time the PS3 will arrive), and will positively promote to further technology development. By doing so, in addition to further reducing the number of parts used for achieving smaller size of optical heads, enhancement of productivity and reliability will be achieved.

Umm I knew this already... you didn't post the info I was asking for.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/6924/HD-DVD-Promotion-Group-Wants-to-Power-Xbox-2

even though its not official like the way ps3 announced its marriage with blu-ray. there's the rumor site that you asked for. OH, and its not a forum....so its not idiots just trying to blow smoke at us. it is really posted on unofficial xbox sites and drive sites as well.

Yeah I knew this too. I posted this originally and will stick to what I said: there is no rumor of XBox2 including HD-DVD other than the DVD forum trying to sway MS...but guess what, so is the Blu-Ray group. Since this is true we might as well say that there's rumors Blu-Ray will be in the XBox2. Source: http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000227026363/
"When we asked the Blu-ray association directly if they were actively courting Microsoft to use Blu-ray in the next generation Xbox 2 system, they told us to go ask Microsoft (yes, that puzzles us too, so it may provide a hint of the way Microsoft is leaning). "


ummm, as for the first quote...you're right, you didnt ask for that. i was responding to your PREVIOUS STATEMENT showing that you were right in what you said about the blu-ray technology being compatable with dvd. (read my reply over again)

as for the second quote (read your quote over again) you asked for the rumor information of MS using the HD-DVD format. of course their isnt proof on earth that would say that they ARE going to put it in (because if so then it wouldnt be a rumor now would it). MS didnt officially announce anything but the rumor is (which is in the link that i send you, also that you asked for) that MS was leaning towards HD-DVD. you didnt ask for proof, you asked for the rumor and thats what you got. as for blu-ray wanting to get xbox.....i have nothing to say about that though you brought it up because my case was on HD. we all know that blu-ray would try to get MS as well, but that wasnt the question so why would i waste my time bringing it up??????

[WillHavePS3]

Hence the word "rumor"... (1. generally circulated story, report, or statement without facts to confirm its truth, 2. general talk or opinion of uncertain reliability)

i agree with you threepac3. im not sure if people are understanding the word rumor. its like people are asking about the rumor but are looking for concrete answers......then obviously it wouldnt be a rumor. i even put up some information about the rumor.

what i think is going on is that because people have the information (that i even supplied) right on the forum they still dont want to believe that its possible for what ever bias they have and are saying that either thats not the info that they asked for or blu-ray did "something incredible". bottom line is we dont know what xbox2 will offer, we only have rumors; but what i can tell you is this...when there's smoke there's fire. the information supplied would prove our point that they are rumors; and whether or not they use that format there were still rumors circulating about its possible use. i dont know how much more information ya'll want (i guess concrete evidence......which YOU cant have :roll: ). i say when xbox2 comes out buy a game for it or just open it up and find out "for sure" (either that or wait till E3). but no matter what, remember that it was stated as a rumor. something being inquired by BOTH SIDES not just MS. sorry if i couldnt produce such an oxymoron like "concrete rumors"......lol :lol:

[Darknight]

Ah yes, but half the fun of rumors is proving or disproving them (which often only takes a little research).

I only said I agreed with Rallyracr because at the moment I don't believe there is enough evidence to support the rumor as "very likely to happen". That is mostly because the rumor spread was more "HD-DVD wants to be in XBox2" rather than "Microsoft want to use HD-DVD".

[WillHavePS3]

Ah yes, but half the fun of rumors is proving or disproving them (which often only takes a little research).

I only said I agreed with Rallyracr because at the moment I don't believe there is enough evidence to support the rumor as "very likely to happen". That is mostly because the rumor spread was more "HD-DVD wants to be in XBox2" rather than "Microsoft want to use HD-DVD".

the information that i submitted had both sides. One, HD-DVD wanting to install their format into the xbox2 and Two, showing that xbox2 was actually (at one time) leaning toward HD-DVD. i understand where you're coming from. I was just putting out information that i read....something interesting to speak about (which it seems like im getting that) but you cant dismiss a rumor because of one's personal opinion. and if you are trying to disprove these rumors what research did you do that made up your mind? send me and the rest of the forum the link so we can read it. maybe that could end the rumor and disprove it. but i can tell you one thing.....what ever information that you link will be a RUMOR....so you cant disprove a rumor with ANOTHER rumor. nothing has come out concrete about this information but rumors. if im wrong...prove it....lol :P


and as for your comment.....we all know that all you need is an affiliation between companies (hd-dvd and MS) for the rumor to have enough support. we know the gaming industry (some more than others.....im not the most knowledgeable) but we see that alot of time when they are affiliations it comes to past that in the end the rumor was either right or it was along those lines. IT COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG......but the affiliation supports the rumors perfectly (which my point would still suffice because im stating the rumor not the fact).

[Rigormortis]

Blu-ray is not gonna win. HD-DVD will.

Although Blu-ray players will play DVD's, Blu-ray disks will not be able to play in existing DVD players.

An HD-DVD disk will provide "DVD" quality content for existing DVD players and HD content for HD-DVD players. Basically when you buy a HD-DVD disk your gonna be able to use it on your DVD player and an HD-DVD player if you ever decide to buy one.

IMO this is a good "transitional" technology and one that will go over well with consumers.

I'm not sure why, but Blu-ray disks will not be offering this "forward compatibility." Maybe it has to do with the fact they are on the opposite side of the DVD forum? Don't know.

Whose gonna win? Look to the Porn Industry and Hollywood. What Sides they choose will decide the winning format. IMO The console industry - the PS3 - will not be the deciding factor on which format will rule.

As well, I don't really give an Fk if Dell and Comapq are riding Blu-ray's dick. They don't make the optical drives for their PC's anyway. Can anyone confirm which companies that make optical drives have sided with Blu-Ray? Not sure about that. With the exception of SONY, NEC and Toshiba, I doubt any other company has sided with either format exclusively. That would be fkn' dumb to commit to one format at this stage.


Also Check this article:





Sony willing to compromise on Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD?

Posted Mar 24, 2005, 11:07 AM ET by Peter Rojas
Related entries: Home Entertainment

blu-ray

Is Sony opening the door to some sort of truce between Blu-ray and HD-DVD? It’s seems way late in the game to be talking about unifying the two warring high-def disc standards, esp. considering how much HD-DVD and Blu-ray hardware is already in the pipeline, but incoming Sony prez Ryoji Chubachi said an interview earlier today that they “haven’t totally given up on the possibility of integration or compromise,” and that Sony, which is backing Blu-ray hardcore, understands that having “two rival formats is disappointing.” (You can say that again, brother.) This is actually the second time this year that a top Sony exec has indicated that they’re willing to work things out with the companies that are backing HD-DVD (like Toshiba and NEC), but the question is, what are they going to do to make it happen? If there was an easy or obvious compromise to be found it probably would have happened already. Where was all this conciliatory talk two years ago?

[xbdestroya]

Blu-ray is not gonna win. HD-DVD will.

Although Blu-ray players will play DVD's, Blu-ray disks will not be able to play in existing DVD players.

An HD-DVD disk will provide "DVD" quality content for existing DVD players and HD content for HD-DVD players. Basically when you buy a HD-DVD disk your gonna be able to use it on your DVD player and an HD-DVD player if you ever decide to buy one.

IMO this is a good "transitional" technology and one that will go over well with consumers.

I'm not sure why, but Blu-ray disks will not be offering this "forward compatibility." Maybe it has to do with the fact they are on the opposite side of the DVD forum? Don't know.

Whose gonna win? Look to the Porn Industry and Hollywood. What Sides they choose will decide the winning format. IMO The console industry - the PS3 - will not be the deciding factor on which format will rule.

As well, I don't really give an Fk if Dell and Comapq are riding Blu-ray's dick. They don't make the optical drives for their PC's anyway. Can anyone confirm which companies that make optical drives have sided with Blu-Ray? Not sure about that. With the exception of SONY, NEC and Toshiba, I doubt any other company has sided with either format exclusively. That would be fkn' dumb to commit to one format at this stage.

Calm down there Rigormortis, it's all going to be ok.

Besides the fact that I don't understand why you would have dug up a topic who's last post was February 1st, the fact is your analysis of the situation, though broad, isn't entirely thorough.

It seems that a lot of the 'advantage' you are giving HD-DVD has to do with the fact that the technology exists to put a conventional DVD layer on such discs, making them playable, at DVD-res of course, in normal DVD players. But what you obviously are quite unaware of, is that the same technology exists for blu-ray.

For you, a link (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/30/jvc_three-layer_dvd/).

Anyway - I agree that the porn industry will play a big role in what gets adopted; but they haven't chosen HD-DVD yet, have they? All that aside, the PS3 will probably play a role in influencing Hollywood one way or the other, despite your claims, as at the time of it's launch it will probably have the highest penetration rate of either tech.

[Rigormortis]

xbdestroya

Thanx 4 the link.

[xbdestroya]

xbdestroya

Thanx 4 the link.

No problem. :wink:

The forums went down for awhile and all the posts between February and mid-March were lost; so a lot of these threads are sort of frozen in time.

[Coded-Dude]

well if its possible to read and write to all the formats....
wouldn't the war then shift to hardware companies that make these {INSERT FORMAT HERE}-RW's

who can make the fastest, cheapest most robust media reader/recorder?
(besides of course, who's gonna put their data on what format)

:roll:

[Viper]

Both formats use a violet spectrum laser (blue) meaning that neither disc iwll be playable in current DVD players since they utilize the red spectrum.

However, players from both formats can esily play old DVDs with the simple inclusion of a red laser head which are relatively cheap.


The vast majority of consumers do not follow tech news and are completely unaware that either format is even being developed right now. The first player to hit shelves will get a huge boost and the one that cost the least will have the largest portion of the sales pie from common consumers.

Remember, Sony has been in this war before with JVC. Sony created BetaMax and JVC created VHS. Beta was actually a much better format but it had one draw back....it cost more. I think we all can figure out how the rest of that war ended.

[nesman]

Your right, Viper. And since it costs more to produce a BluRay disc (only a little bit higher than HD-DVD) consumers will go for the cheapest format regardless of the lesser features and lower storage space. But DVDs were unpopular until the PS2 came out and popularized it. Even in 1999-2000 DVDs cost a lot more than VHS and consumers weren't really ready to make the change. But now almost every household has a DVD player and some type of home theater system. If PS3 can pull of the same trick, I'm thinking BD discs will become the consumer's choice. Sony already has Disney and MGM Studios on their sides; and those two are pretty big movie companies. Apple also has announced that they will support BluRay and include BluRay drives into their systems once the format is launched. The same thing can be applied to HDTV. In America we haven't even begun the change yet. Only a few channels broadcast in HDTV. While the change is happening, consumers won't want to buy a whole new HDTV set with all the necessary equipment once their TVs become obselete. In the end, it all comes down to how much we have to shell out of our pockets.

[xbdestroya]

Both formats use a violet spectrum laser (blue) meaning that neither disc iwll be playable in current DVD players since they utilize the red spectrum.

However, players from both formats can esily play old DVDs with the simple inclusion of a red laser head which are relatively cheap.


Well I can't argue with this, as it's very true. I will add though, that what me and rigormortis were discussing specifically were indeed blu-ray and HD-DVD discs that have an additional, standard, DVD layer integrated into the disc for playback in regular red-laser DVD driver/players. The thinking behind this is that customers will then be more willing to purchase high-def format discs even if they have not yet upgraded to high def tv's and/or players, as they will be able to play the secondary, standard definition content, on their existing equipment, and then the high-def stuff when they upgrade using the same disc.

This is a link (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/08/dvd_hd-dvd_dualdisc/) to an article describing the HD-DVD/DVD compatible disc; and this is a link (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/30/jvc_three-layer_dvd/) to an article describing the Blu-Ray/DVD compatible disc.

If there's irony, it's that JVC, Sony's nemesis from the BetaMax days, is the one who developed this tech for the blu-ray camp.

[Viper]

xbdestroya, I hadn't read up on that yet so thanks for the links. Quite interesting.


Nesman, DVD players at the time were gaining ground on VHS players already in the US when the PS2 was released. It also had no compeition expect DivX and ha thad far too many problems to gain any ground.

This round, there are two new formats (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) , not just a single dominant new format (DVD).

The PS3 may usher in Blu-Ray yet other consoles may bring forth HD-DVD and from what I can tell, PS3 will not dominate as much next round...it will be much closer race all around (meaning better games for all). This makes the race for the next accepted format a very heated one and not just a runaway as DVD was.

[The_One]

Both formats use a violet spectrum laser (blue) meaning that neither disc iwll be playable in current DVD players since they utilize the red spectrum.
That assumption is actually wrong (albeit, often made). Blue laser is roughly 2/3 smaller than red laser (Can't remember actual number), but you can layer the blue laser so it'll create a "bump" with the same wavelength as red laser.
Example only:
Blue laser: ------
Red laser: ====
Blue laser can then be layered twice to produce the same width of bump on the disc as the red laser. The diagram is for illustration only, and not to be taken literally.

[Viper]

xbdestroya just gave a nice link showing me that. I haven't seen that before, granted I haven't kept up too much in the format war as of late.


I wonder though, which would cost less or be more widely accepted?

Creating a red laser layer on the disc or utilizing a red laser in the new players?

A red laser in the new players will minimize costs for software producers but limit them to just the new players.

A red laser level on the disc would allow their usage in all players yet would potentially increase costs (that's an assumption I have yet to research).

[MiThRaZoR]

Blu-ray is not gonna win. HD-DVD will.

Although Blu-ray players will play DVD's, Blu-ray disks will not be able to play in existing DVD players.

An HD-DVD disk will provide "DVD" quality content for existing DVD players and HD content for HD-DVD players. Basically when you buy a HD-DVD disk your gonna be able to use it on your DVD player and an HD-DVD player if you ever decide to buy one.

Actually, both Blu-Ray AND HD-DVD will be using a Blue laser to play their medium. So you can't play a HD-DVD on a DVD player. Just because it says DVD doesn't mean you could play it on a DVD player.

[Viper]

According to this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/08/dvd_hd-dvd_dualdisc/) they just might be.

[The_One]

Blu-ray is not gonna win. HD-DVD will.

Although Blu-ray players will play DVD's, Blu-ray disks will not be able to play in existing DVD players.

An HD-DVD disk will provide "DVD" quality content for existing DVD players and HD content for HD-DVD players. Basically when you buy a HD-DVD disk your gonna be able to use it on your DVD player and an HD-DVD player if you ever decide to buy one.

Actually, both Blu-Ray AND HD-DVD will be using a Blue laser to play their medium. So you can't play a HD-DVD on a DVD player. Just because it says DVD doesn't mean you could play it on a DVD player. Read the previous 3 or 4 posts ;).
Laser wavelength isn't the main obstacle behind backward compatibility.

[MiThRaZoR]

Your right, Viper. And since it costs more to produce a BluRay disc (only a little bit higher than HD-DVD) consumers will go for the cheapest format regardless of the lesser features and lower storage space.

Actually, the reason Beta lost was because of the lack of support. VHS had the whole Hollywood. Or something like that.

But this time. Blu-ray has much more support. Sony learned from it's mistakes.

And I really just skipped a whole lot on the posts because I can't read it right. I hate light skinned forums. They should make it so we have a choice.

[Viper]

They should make it so we have a choice.

*whistles*

[MiThRaZoR]

They should make it so we have a choice.

*whistles*

Oh yeah, I just milked myself there. But I meant I wanted a dark one in there also. They're both the same.

[xbdestroya]

Oh man, what a train wreck this whole thing is becoming! :lol:

[Viper]

They should make it so we have a choice.

*whistles*

Oh yeah, I just milked myself there. But I meant I wanted a dark one in there also. They're both the same.

I just meant give us time, hehe.



X, I've been anticipating this to be a massive train wreck as well. Thankfully, DVD itself is still a decent medium and will still give us something to watch our movies on until the war ends.