wtf

[RolandG]

from joystiq.com

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000920037859/#comments

"Sony forced to stop selling PS2s, dual shock controllers, games


Posted Mar 27, 2005, 10:28 PM ET by Vladimir Cole
Related entries: PlayStation 2
Japan Today reports that in addition to a hefty, $90.7-million fine for damages, Sony Computer Entertainment may be forbidden from manufacturing, using, selling or importing into the United States any of their products that include computer controlled vibrating motors because those products infringe on patents held by Immersion Corp. The products in question:

Playstation consoles, Dualshock controllers, and those games found by the jury to infringe…. A Bug’s Life; Amplitude; Ape Escape; Atlantis: The Lost Empire; Bloody Roar 2; Cool Boarders 3; Cool Boarders 4; Cool Boarders 2001; Crash Bash; Crash Team Racing; Drakan: The Ancients’ Gate; Emperor’s New Groove; Extermination; FantaVision; Final Fantasy X; Formula One 2001; The Getaway; Gran Turismo; Gran Turismo 2; Gran Turismo 3; Grand Theft Auto: Vice City; Grand Theft Auto 3; Grind Session; ICO; Jak & Daxter; Kinetica; Kingdom Hearts; Legend of the Dragoon; The Mark of Kri; Medal of Honor Frontline; Medievil 2; Metal Gear Solid 2; Monster’s, Inc.; Sly Cooper and the Thievius Racoonus; SOCOM Navy Seals; Speed Punks; Spyro: Ripto’s Rage; Spyro: Year of the Dragon; Stuart Little 2; Syphon Filter 2; Syphon Filter 3; Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3; Twisted Metal: Black; Twisted Metal 4; Twisted Metal: Small Brawl; Treasure Planet; and War of the Monsters"

[indie85]

Yeah i just read this too, apparently its all because; 'Immersion, a small, California-based developer of digital touch technologies, claimed Sony Computer Entertainment infringed on its technology that makes a game controller vibrate in sync with actions in games, the Japanese game maker said.'

Immersion claims Sony ripped their vibration technology off for their own use. I think this is just dumb. Vibration tech for games was around long before Immersion was........

[julps31]

Whhaa...wait. What about X-box and Gamecube, and the Nintendo 64? They all used the vibration in there controller. And N64 used it about the same time as PS1 if not before. If this is real they need to drop it. There out to get money. There about 7 years late.
EDIT: I guess X-box and Gamecube don't count because they don't have motors in the controller. This is dumb.

[Brandon]

Seriously...why are they only suing Sony? What about other consoles that use vibration technology in games? And they aren't just damaging Sony if they're stating that games can't be sold either...this hurts the developers. This is getting quite ridiculous.

EDIT: I guess X-box and Gamecube don't count because they don't have motors in the controller. This is dumb.
The situation is still really dumb, though.

[Coded-Dude]

I believe that all companies were apporched.....Microsucks and Ninty both decided to pay a licenses fee, and SONY did not.
This is what I think I remember reading back in October.

It sucks either way!

[Junox50]

I was over at another forum and they were talking about this. Microsoft apprently already setteled the problem awhile ago.

http://www.gametalk.com/talk/boxcube/72262619.htm

This was reported back in July 28, 2003:


Microsoft has settled a patent-infringement suit and received the rights to use Immersion’s technology for providing tactile responses in devices such as joysticks.
Under the deal, Microsoft will pay Immersion $26 million for licensing rights and for a stake in the company, Immersion said Tuesday. Immersion also can borrow as much as $9 million more through a convertible debenture arrangement with Microsoft, the company said.


Immersion specializes in so-called haptic technology, which uses the sense of touch to expand interactions between humans and computers. For example, its technology can be used to build a joystick that shudders in a flight simulation game when a player's airplane is shot, or a mouse that thumps slightly so people with poor vision can tell when their cursor is hovering over a clickable button. Microsoft uses haptic technology in its Force Feedback joysticks.
Lots less than the 90.7 Million Sony is ordered to pay

[nemesis121]

Nintendo's rumble technology is different from sony and ms, ms was smart to settle out of court, sony on the other hand thought they could fight it and win, well this is there second lost, here's the news article read up before you act like a ignorant fanboy like DUDE did.

the first links are from 2003
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/news/news_6031007.html
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2003/07/29/news_6072673.html

2005
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/14/news_6116423.html
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/28/news_6121137.html

[Z]

I can understand haulting DualShocks, but what the hell the console itself has to do with anything?

here's a thought; think what would happen if Sony and other major Japanese manufactorers boycut N America for this for a period of time.

I tell you they would be begged and payed to comeback as busnesses well dive! :twisted:

[xbdestroya]

I can understand haulting DualShocks, but what the hell the console itself has to do with anything?

here's a thought; think what would happen if Sony and other major Japanese manufactorers boycut N America for this for a period of time.

I tell you they would be begged and payed to comeback as busnesses well dive! :twisted:

Yeah but they won't be begged by Immersion, which is all that matters right now. :wink: You can't just beg yourself around the legal system.

Anyway I think Sony will work this out ok in the end. I don't know what possessed them to think they could win this one in the courts - they should have just licensed it straight off after this showed up. That being said, maybe they have an ace or something up their sleeve.

[Coded-Dude]

here's the news article read up before you act like a ignorant fanboy like DUDE did.

Gee....thanks for flaming me, but my statement was not ignorant.
Microsoft settled, and SONY did not; but I could not remeber what the deal with Nintendo was, as I CLEARLY stated:
"This is what I think I remember reading back in October"

Sorry you don't like the titles I chose for the corresponding company....but, DILIGAF?

[Rizon]

I am led to believe that none of the companies were approached by Immersion, instead. Immersion sued, Mircrosoft settled out of court with $26 million, while Sony stopped and agrued for that they had the right to use the technogoly, and ended up with a nice sum of compensation to Immersion in the total of around $90 million. and Nintendo weren't involved in this as some of you are saying.

Now however i believe that Microsoft ARE paying liencing fees and indeed so are sony. This court battle happened about 2 - 3 Months ago by the way, have you only basically found out about this?

[gnznroses]

from megagames:

Sony was ordered by a U.S. federal court to immediately stop U.S. sales of its PlayStation game consoles and pay USD 90.7 million to Immersion for patent infringement over controllers used with PlayStation game consoles. The federal court's order states that Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Entertainment America Inc. have to stop selling the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 game consoles using Dualshock controllers as well as more than 40 game software products, although the judge immediately put her ruling on hold.

The stay in the case means Sony will keep moving its Playstation consoles in the United States, until the, lengthy, appeal process is completed.

Immersion initially started the lawsuit against both Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo has acquired a license, but the U.S. console manufacturer settled out of court for a USD 26 million payment (the cost of the acquisition of a license) and other settlements which, in fact, brought part ownership of Immersion to MS.

Financial analysts said there was little practical impact to the order. The same experts claim that the worst that could happen for the Japanese giant is that it will lose the appeals and be forced into a license agreement with Immersion.

The meat of the case has to do with patents held by Immersion Corp. on vibration technology. The PS2's Dualshock controllers vibrate during gameplay. The protection offered by the U.S. patenting system helped Immersion win this round although arguments regarding the use of the technology will continue for a long while. Since the patent describes the use of ...spinning eccentric weights to create vibration, some arguments against Immersion suggest that the California-based company has patented a law of nature. The, similar, idea that a centrifuge with an offset weight can be used to apply force to an object has been in use for decades in many fields of science, although in such cases the designers have to compensate by adding weight to the opposite site of the boom that carries the payload to avoid such rumbling forces.

Immersion shares were up nearly 15 per cent following the ruling, though Sony shares remained unchanged. A Sony spokeswoman in the U.S. said the appeal was in progress but declined to say when it would be filed. However, a Sony spokeswoman in Tokyo said the company would be paying compulsory license fees to Immersion while the appeal progressed through the courts.

Games are an important part of Sony's overall income accounting for 44 per cent of Sony's operating profit from October to December, as its electronics division continues to struggle.


i highly agree with the statement "Since the patent describes the use of ...spinning eccentric weights to create vibration, some arguments against Immersion suggest that the California-based company has patented a law of nature.".

[Mr.*G*spot]

I think sony's should have settled, and move on. :roll:

[The_One]

Wow... The US Patent Office allowed a company to patent a law of nature... Are they STUPID? I guess they are :roll:.
That patent is as stupid as me saying, "By shaking any kind of stick, I can create vibrations, and by swinging this stick really fast, I can create 'swoosh' sounds. Anyone that wants to do either of these 'fun' tricks must pay license fees to ME."

That does make sense? NO... :evil:

[Z]

I can create 'swoosh' sounds

quick! Someone patent that!!

now every windo cleaning company in the world will be paying me! muahahaah !!

[The_One]

I can create 'swoosh' sounds

quick! Someone patent that!!

now every windo cleaning company in the world will be paying me! muahahaah !! No, ME!!! I came up with that first :twisted:.

Okay okay... we'll share the profit 50/50 :lol:.

[Z]

see you in court!!
.
.
.

And after 90 years of suing and dragging we’ll both be broke and out of business. Then the world will be a better place.
It will have dirty windows, but it would still be a better place.

[Coded-Dude]

rotflmfao........you guys are too funny!

How much is a license for the "swoosh"? I wanted to swing a stick later! :roll:

[The_One]

rotflmfao........you guys are too funny!

How much is a license for the "swoosh"? I wanted to swing a stick later! :roll:
Does the F stand for "Rolling on the floor laughing my FAT ass off"? :lol:

Hmm... licensing "swoosh" will cost you .50 cent everytime you want to make that sound :lol:. At this rate, I'll be rich in no time... MOUHAHAHAHA :lol:.

[Coded-Dude]

no no....thats flamboyant! :roll:

What no discount! Okay Okay, how about I give you 15 cent and you make the **"swoosh" noise for me?

** patent pending

[Brandon]

The point is clear...we all think this incident was incredibly lame. ;)

[Mordecaii]

If you read Immersion's patent, it says that the device has to have a housing in which a "direction pad" is contained, and that the object that the housing and direction pad are hooked up to must send a signal to the pad so that it moves in regards to the housing. Now if you think about it, the PS2's directional pad and joysticks do not move, the entire controller vibrates based on little motors inside the controllers. This is in no way infringing on the patent and therefore Sony shouldn't pay a cent to Immersion. The patent can be seen here...

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=39&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=immersio n.ASNM.&OS=AN/immersion&RS=AN/immersion

[Z]

Sony is doing everything it can to avoid losing. Something that obvious would have been pointed out.

In any case, I see that the withdrawal of all PS2s, Dualshocks and some games that uses rumble feedback is insane, to say the least. The same controller was used since PSOne days. Why bring it up about 5 years later in 2003?
And when asked why Ninty’s controller isn’t discussed, they said “we didn’t look at their controller” what kind of response is this?
I think Sony can prove it didn’t know about the patent, that will make things different. After all, many patents get violated due to close patent filing, failed recognition t the time, etc.

This reminds me of the fellow that wants to sue Rockstar claiming that GTA is his idea…in the late 80s, early 90s!! and now you come crying?

Pathetic!