Is it just me or...

[SERAPHIM]

I posted this already on another forum but.

Is Sony trying way too hard to make the Playstation 3 crunch out as many useless numbers as possible? Ken Kutaragi said that he expects the initial PS3 hard drive to be 80 gigs... what exactly are gamers going to do with 80 gigs of hard drive space? And exactly why do gamers need 1 teraflop of processing power to play games? Why do we need so many numbers that we aren't going to use?

[KiLLA2006]

You definitely are right we wont use 80 gigs or 2 teraflops of data
processing, but developers will try their damndest to get everything they
can out of the PS3 thats why sony is adding so much numbers to the PS3,
and who knows when somebody might need 80 gigs, with a linux system
and plenty of downloadable crap (hopefully) and the ability to upload
songs, I think sony is getting it perfect this time around, so to me yea it's
just you... :wink:

[lip2lip]

I don't know why you need 20 gigs hd on top of 50 gig blu ray either. would 128 meg flash not be enough?

[raVen]

recording tv shows, saving hd camera streams, theres definately gonna be more online games this generation and games with downloadable content...

but asides from those i dont know...

[rpgamer_2k5]

Actually FPU does matter in games, so I see nothing wrong by presenting those numbers. Obviously the FPU is extremely exagerrated but the actual FPU should be around 600-800 which is pretty impressive.

The 80gb HDD will also have Linux pre-installed so many will be installing various programs such as word processors, graphics software, some BitTorrent Client, maybe even some some emulators. :mrgreen: So you see, a 80gb is quite important and many of us would want to bring it up to 300gb. :D
.
.
The only problem I have is the price. If Sony expects to do well with the HDD, they should be selling at a good price. Currently these monsters would cost $200, but seeing that many compact/portable units are now using 2.5" HDDs, a more cheaper unit cost could be expected. For Sony to do this they should allow any HDD to be able to be used with the PS3. The PS3 Native OS should have a "Download and Install Linux" option when a HDD is installed. If this cannot be done, Sony really needs to bring down the price of that HDD to $45-60

[SERAPHIM]

Yeah Im also still wondering if they are still even going to include that recording TV shows thing. But about content, I own an XBOX and as you all know it comes equipped with an 8 gigabyte hard drive. Ive had my XBOX for well over 2 years and a half. And during those two years of saving complex games, content download, and downloading multiple songs onto my XBOX... I have only used up lil over 1 gigabyte. So why do we need 80 if the XBOX has 10% of that amount, and people usually use 10% or less of teh XBOXs hard drive with all that "content" that is so hyped about?

[raVen]

why does anyone need a 20 gb ipod? ...i here the have 60 gb flavors too.

[SERAPHIM]

To put in more songs. But why put in so many gigabytes of space in an IPOD if your only going to use so much? My friend has the newest Sony MP3 player and he only uses 2-3 gigs of it. I mean 10%. And he paid like 200+ dollars for it. I dont wan't to pay for something that I probably will never use.

[Domination]

I posted this already on another forum but.

Is Sony trying way too hard to make the Playstation 3 crunch out as many useless numbers as possible? Ken Kutaragi said that he expects the initial PS3 hard drive to be 80 gigs... what exactly are gamers going to do with 80 gigs of hard drive space? And exactly why do gamers need 1 teraflop of processing power to play games? Why do we need so many numbers that we aren't going to use?

I asked myself that very same question when i saw the ipod. :wink:

[cpiasminc]

I was also seeing something about PS3 and 360 both offering distributed computing clients like SETI@Home and Folding and so on. So if nothing else, you can at least guarantee that the FPU power won't go to waste even if the games don't use it too well. :P

Actually, I would be interested to see how big of an impact CELL FFTs would see on something like SETI. The numbers they get now are already ridiculous.

[SERAPHIM]

PC anyone?

[KnightRiderX]

I was also seeing something about PS3 and 360 both offering distributed computing clients like SETI@Home and Folding and so on. So if nothing else, you can at least guarantee that the FPU power won't go to waste even if the games don't use it too well. :P

Actually, I would be interested to see how big of an impact CELL FFTs would see on something like SETI. The numbers they get now are already ridiculous.

I thought only the PS3's Cell can offer distributing computing instead of both of them.

[Saibo]

You definitely are right we wont use 80 gigs or 2 teraflops of data
processing, but developers will try their damndest to get everything they
can out of the PS3 thats why sony is adding so much numbers to the PS3,
and who knows when somebody might need 80 gigs, with a linux system
and plenty of downloadable crap (hopefully) and the ability to upload
songs, I think sony is getting it perfect this time around, so to me yea it's
just you... :wink:


80 is OK..but you can never have enough HDD space ;). Especailly for videos, music,etc.

80 HDD would be good for indy developer for the PS3 Linux kit. Might need more, depending on the scale of the game.

Its funny when people complain about having too much HDD space :D. my brother has a 40 GB HDD on his laptop, and his complaining about running outta space for his movies(he has to burn them and delate it off the HDD). I dont think burning a CD/DVD is part of the PS3? so having more HDD would be wiser than having less. Especailly for a media center device like the PS3. You shouldnt compare a ipod to the PS3, their scope is different, PS3 is targeted at a wider media usage than music..video take up alot more space.

[Danji]

I would need a hell of a lot more than 80 GB to put all of naruto on there and convert it via incredibly powerful Cell + linux + HDD combo and then put it on my PSP. A lot more, like at least 160 GB, I would like 200+ GB on my PS3.

[SERAPHIM]

Allright for one thing a PS3 is a console correct? You guys already have PCs. Heck your using one right now as I type this and while you posted your message. Unless your on a WebTV than that understandable. So what’s the point of using your PS3 for anything other than playing games? Isn’t that what a console was made for in the first place? Your brother is constantly complaining about space for his laptop? The PS3 is not a laptop it’s a console. You say you need 200+ gigs for Naruto episodes. Why not just download them onto your PC? That’s why a PC was made in the first place. I feel ALOT of hypocrisy when Sony fanboys talk about the Playstation 3 like this. Wasn't it them that were criticizing the XBOX that it was only a PC with the ability to play console games? IMO Nintendo is the only true console maker left in the game field. I was starting to look forward to buying a PS3. But now it all looks like a gimmick. I’m getting older and now I noticed that I really don't need all this crap (and excuse me for calling it that) for my video game console. My parents don't provide for my entertainment anymore, and I know how to value money. And in my field of vision the PS3 looks like it will be half as valuable as it is worth. Seriously why do you need all that? The Revolution is exactly what I'm looking for. It's cheap, it's probably going to actually be fun, and it stays true to gaming. On another note I hate how these games today are becoming more and more BS. Heard of a game from a popular magazine or video game website lately that says that it "will immerse you like you have never been immersed before"? BULLSHIT ALERT... I haven’t been immersed in a game since the Final Fantasy games on Playstation and the Zelda games on N64. Seriously all I see these days is eye candy. When I look at the Nintendo they don't have a super computer processor or a disk that holds 58 gigs... but I'm sure what they are doing they are doing it so that they can immerse you in a gaming experience just like they have been doing for the past 20 years. The head creator of the XBOX 360 said that they give us this wonderful machine, but it is our human energy that makes it work. That says something. Sometimes when I see the PS3 I see.... gimmick. I don’t see anything to be "omfg" about. Seriously, oh wow, it has a super uber-duper-bluper powerful processor called CELL... but what exactly is it going to do to heighten my gaming experience? Why does Sony go out of their way to waste their money on all this crapolla that is expensive and will probably not even be taken full advantage off until the year 2015? Not to mention it will probably burn a whole in my pocket bigger than my... and that’s pretty big…

I just noticed that the graphics thread on this board is already in it's six go around... that shows you alot of things. To me it says that this generation puts graphics over gameplay.

[KiLLA2006]

i understand what you mean, I am using a computer right now but you have to understand that kutaragi-san has stated that he wanted to create the box is the center of the living room and with all the features being included the playstation is truly coming closer to that dream, also with so many different features I know i will never get tired of messing with my PS3, and finally everybody has stated its a steal at whatever price it comes out at be it $400USD or $300USD if you dont need the features stop complaining and dont use them...

also its really up to the gamer which system they prefer if you value the value of a dollar, go with a revolution, if you want something more complex with a lot of different features, go with PS3 if you want the middle of the two go with x360, im excited about all the features on the PS3 because i know i will put them to great use. If you're not interested in most of the features in the PS3 my advice don't get it... but i know i would give up the extra amount on a PS3 but thats just me...

[cpiasminc]

I thought only the PS3's Cell can offer distributing computing instead of both of them.
Distributed computing simply means dividing tasks into smaller independent subtasks which are distributed over separate independent sources of processing power. Any computing device in the world can "offer" distributed computing as long as it has a connection to wherever computing tasks might come from.

The mention of CELL in the context of distributed computing is partially to do with the fact that CELLs very structure is like a miniature distributed computing farm where a central server (PPE) sends out subtasks (apulets) to various terminals (SPEs) which are all connected in a token ring arrangement (EIB). The other part of the whole "distributed computing on CELL" thing was more related to the patents which brought up propositions for glue logic in the scheduling API such that if you didn't have free SPEs for a task, the apulet would get shipped off to another CPU or another terminal. In theory, if implemented, you could "game-farm" multiple PS3s or have some processing power shared between a PS3 CELL and a lesser CELL in a TV or DVD player. Not very reasonable in practice for gaming, though because it wouldn't be a safe assumption on the part of the developers.

[rpgamer_2k5]

I would need a hell of a lot more than 80 GB to put all of naruto on there and convert it via incredibly powerful Cell + linux + HDD combo and then put it on my PSP. A lot more, like at least 160 GB, I would like 200+ GB on my PS3.

I will be doing the same. I just wish the 80gb HDD costs $45-65 Canadian so that I can actually afford to go for a 300gb beat. :mrgreen: Moreover lets not forget about the Cell uping the resolutions of the movies...I would love to see various animes (Neon Genesis =)) at 1080p. :D

Allright for one thing a PS3 is a console correct? You guys already have PCs. Heck your using one right now as I type this and while you posted your message.

Umm.. I use a dinosaur PC for my entertainment needs. It is clearly NOT enough. Even if I upgrade, the PC ends up performing horribly most of the time (on Windows, that is :twisted:) Furthermore, I cannot afford to go for a expensive PC anymore, I'm a poor college student :cry: and want a powerful computer.
.
..
...The PS3 is the solution. Gaming, Computing and all those digital TV features that most of us can't afford. 8)

[SERAPHIM]

i understand what you mean, I am using a computer right now but you have to understand that kutaragi-san has stated that he wanted to create the box is the center of the living room and with all the features being included the playstation is truly coming closer to that dream, also with so many different features I know i will never get tired of messing with my PS3, and finally everybody has stated its a steal at whatever price it comes out at be it $400USD or $300USD if you dont need the features stop complaining and dont use them...

also its really up to the gamer which system they prefer if you value the value of a dollar, go with a revolution, if you want something more complex with a lot of different features, go with PS3 if you want the middle of the two go with x360, im excited about all the features on the PS3 because i know i will put them to great use. If you're not interested in most of the features in the PS3 my advice don't get it... but i know i would give up the extra amount on a PS3 but thats just me...

I also understand what you mean. But why is Sony trying to change the idea of what a console is supposed to be. It seems now adays that a console is not a console if it doesn't play DVD movies... hence why the gamecube got so much backlash.

[KiLLA2006]

I also understand what you mean. But why is Sony trying to change the idea of what a console is supposed to be. It seems now adays that a console is not a console if it doesn't play DVD movies... hence why the gamecube got so much backlash.

hmmmm, a toughy indeed, I think as long as a company doesn't loose sight of the reason they are in the market then it really shouldnt make a difference hence the term feature, i know i was happy when i heard the PS2 had a DVD player, because i didn't have to go out and buy one, but even though the PS2 did include the DVD player did it ever loose sight of the fact that it was a gaming console, no, in fact it opened the possibility of including DVDs in magazines to show off future titles, i mean if you have PS2 you obviously have a DVD player, but thats not the only reason, also as i have stated Sony's dream is to make a console that is the center of the living room and i know it can be a little disorienting at first but in this day and age, it's almost necessary to include these features for a centerpeice to a high tech living room such as mine...

[Key]

I also understand what you mean. But why is Sony trying to change the idea of what a console is supposed to be. It seems now adays that a console is not a console if it doesn't play DVD movies... hence why the gamecube got so much backlash.

All Sony, Microsoft and even Nintendo to a certain extent is doing is offering you more options. The console itself cannot really change the idea of what they are suppose to be used for, just offer more alternatives. It is up to the customers to determine what they what the console to be, if they want to use it for just gaming they can, if they want to use it as a movie player, or any of the other feature offered with the console that option is open to them.

Did the Playstation 2 or Xbox offer a lesser gaming experience than Nintendo because they offered more with the consoles? No, and to a cetain extent that was able to offer more because of these features.

[Z]

you make very good point SERAPHIM. Indeed some of Sony’s moves are answers to your questions. Here are some explanations:

Allright for one thing a PS3 is a console correct? You guys already have PCs. Heck your using one right now as I type this and while you posted your message. Unless your on a WebTV than that understandable. So what’s the point of using your PS3 for anything other than playing games? Isn’t that what a console was made for in the first place? Your brother is constantly complaining about space for his laptop? The PS3 is not a laptop it’s a console.
You are perfectly correct. Things like Peer 2 Peer, ripping DVD movies, storing HD content are all not necessary. That is what PCs are for. That is why Sony is not including an HDD with PS3. for those who wish to use the PS3 as somewhat of a PC, they can simply buy the HDD of their need.
That is another thing you ask; is 80G to much or too little?
Well, for those like you who only use it for game saves and a couple of game maps, then 1G is more than enough. That is why Rev only has 512M internal HDD space. It is really enough for gaming. But what about those who wish to rip DVD movies and save a lot of content from their new EyeToy? What about those looking forward to exploit the P2P feature of PS3? And so on and so forth. These people are given the freedom by Sony to pay for what they want/need to use. I don’t want to pay extra for an HDD that I will never use, or for extra space that I will never use. That is why many who are media freaks will immediately buy another, much bigger, HDD for X2 and replace it before even turning the console on.

If you don’t want an HDD, then simply you don’t have to pay for it. and not only an HDD, Sony gives you the freedom with many flash memory options. I want to pay for a big memory card duo for my PSP and be able to use it for PS3. then you can do that. What about those who have an SD card for their camera or cell phones that they wish to use for PS3? You have the freedom and flexibility to use it as you wish.

When I look at the Nintendo they don't have a super computer processor or a disk that holds 58 gigs
they don’t need to have those since they will not support HD ( High-Def) in any way.
Sometimes when I see the PS3 I see.... gimmick

well that is Sony, really. If you tell some one you saw a new Sony device. Ask them what they think it is. They will tell you it will be a gimmick with some fancy options. That is Sony. If you tell someone you saw a Ninty console. They would think ‘fun’ and ‘family games’. They will never think it would be a fancy high tech gadget.
Every company has its own ‘style’ and demographic. There is nothing wrong with being unique. You chose what you like.
Seriously, oh wow, it has a super uber-duper-bluper powerful processor called CELL... but what exactly is it going to do to heighten my gaming experience?


Cell and RSX are for the unbelievable graphics, HD capabilities, PC functions, connectivity, etc. that was shown at E3. you know, all that crazy high tech Sony is known for in all their equipment.
You may say you, as a gamer, do not want that. Well, many other gamer do. This takes us back to each companies approach. Go with the one you feel comfortable with your gaming habits. The one that you feel that their definition of a ‘gamer’ is you.


I just noticed that the graphics thread on this board is already in it's six go around... that shows you alot of things. To me it says that this generation puts graphics over gameplay.

You may be one of the very few that thinks graphics aren’t important. You maybe one of the very few that doesn’t see the difference between Zelda on the NES, SNES, Cube or Rev. but for the rest of the gaming community graphics are vital. Of course everybody is saying ‘gameplay is important’ and ‘it’s all about the games’. And graphics are also important. What is the first thing that a dev, publisher, reviewer or gamer says about a game? They say it ‘look’ great or ok or good, etc. graphics are very important for the ‘immersion’ factor of games. You never ever get the same feeling playing Metal Gear on the MSX and MGS3. you never get scares or alerted as you get when playing Splinter Cell as 20 ears ago. You never get jumpy playing a horror game like Fatal Frame if the graphics will crappy or looked silly. Would you feel the same when a white block chase you (old school gaming) and a freak from Silent Hill? How about that great satisfaction you get from giving a fist blow to your opponent and seeing blood drops flaying from his face (Def Jam Vendetta)? How about the feeling and immersion you get from seeing sweat running on a character’s face. Or tears when crying?

It is all about ‘immersion’ and giving that ‘feel’ that is important in graphics.

Finally, it is extremely childish and ignorant to give ANY negative remarks about any gamer’s choice of games or consoles. There are people who actually pay for Hello Kitty games! There are others that only like online gaming, those who prefer a certain genre, etc. the most important thing is that you enjoy this wonderful activity that hundreds of millions around the world enjoy; gaming. You be still playing Pong with your Atari 2600 or F.E.A.R with you’re a high-end Alienware PC (yes I know, still isn’t out).

We here are all gamers that respect and appreciate other gamers and options. Many have more than one console. We are all ‘gamers’ sharing our wonderful hobby.
Enjoy. :wink:

[SERAPHIM]

Thank you for being the only person to disect my post and make some intelligent remarks Z. I highly respect you for that.

[Kala]

the team ninja guy said that
"If we encoded the Dead or Alive 4 trailer from E3 in high definition in a quality acceptable to us, it will easily be about 2GB."

Obviously this means that ppl will be using ALOT more space. I mean each movie at DVD quality is like 1-3Gig compressed. This gen HD will push that space ALOT and i suspect that i will probably be able to store 10-15 movies. Leaving space for downloadable content. This is no way near enuf for ppl like me.

[jaxmkii]

I posted this already on another forum but.

Is Sony trying way too hard to make the Playstation 3 crunch out as many useless numbers as possible? Ken Kutaragi said that he expects the initial PS3 hard drive to be 80 gigs... what exactly are gamers going to do with 80 gigs of hard drive space? And exactly why do gamers need 1 teraflop of processing power to play games? Why do we need so many numbers that we aren't going to use?

how many times am i going to hear this?!?

there is no such thing as too much

[KiLLA2006]

how many times am i going to hear this?!?

there is no such thing as too much

thank you, the words that took me three different posts to try to explain, come through in 8 words, thanx man, you sure make it easy...
:aim;-]:

[Danji]

I agree with the previous post. If you can pay $100+ to turn your PS3 into an uber powerful PC then you should appreciate it and it's also a huge save on spending.

Also, I would like to say something I've wanted to for a long while. Just because you may not use a feature doesn't mean nobody else will and you're disconcern about it's inclusion should not cause you to say it's useless, pointless, and destroying the point of the device and it's other features.

[rpgamer_2k5]

Thank You. This is one of those intelligent posts that I really hoped to see. I really couldn't have said that better myself. ;)

I really don't care about the wealthy gamers at all, I want an all-in-one system many others want the same. I threw alot of money in the past, if I was wealthy, I would continue to do that. I really do not have the cash to build a powerful computer at a lower cost than a brand PC. Anything mid-end really does suit me because even though it is good on the day of purchase, it ends up performing terrible a year or so. My custom build PC ran fine 2-3 years but now it's just a slug. A year from purchase, PC gaming was extremely lousy on my system. OTOH, the PS2 was playing games that looked better than the PC counterpart. This is why I prefer consoles, the standard config allows consoles to live for 5 years. Such a configuration will mean a stable Linux and I will even purchase PS3-ready Mouse, Keyboard, Printer/Scanner, headsets and what not if my system can last for 5 years. Along with that, Blu-Ray playback, PS1 or PS2 playback, possibly get some emulators to run my legally owned games on other systems, surf the net and all the other activities that can be done on a PC.

For $300-370, I will purchase 2 PS3s. :)

[mikeeazy]

I also understand what you mean. But why is Sony trying to change the idea of what a console is supposed to be. It seems now adays that a console is not a console if it doesn't play DVD movies... hence why the gamecube got so much backlash.

The console has been changed every since the PS1 came out, it was then a cd player also. I dont see the problem with making it into an entertainment center. The psp is a handhelp gaming device, but it plays mp3s, movies, and pics, so i think the definiton of console has changed.

PS: My pc is 5 years old, so im glad as hell that I can use my future PS3 as my future PC.

[Z]

The console has been changed every since the PS1 came out, it was then a cd player also.
Just to note; 3DO played audio CDs. I am not sure if Saturn did as well.

Having said that, it is true that Sony redefined console and gaming. They took gaming to new levels and made it mainstream. Some of the features and concepts introduced by Sony’s Playstation line is backward compatibility. PS2 was the first ever to do that. Nobody have even heard of such a thing. Other things are popular game branding as ‘Platinum’ or ‘gamers’ choice’ and other names. DVD playback. HDD, etc.

This is Sony. And they will continue with their concept on all future products. PS3 is one of the most important Sony products coming out. It has priority. That is why we see them putting in it all the bells and whistles WHILE KEEPING IT AFFORDABLE. This is why PS3 won’t have a TiVo like functions, disk burner and possibly an HDD. Of course it is technically feasible, but it would be much better releasing a standalone all-in-one product like PSX and see how it goes. Since it isn’t a standard, the can lower or raise production depending on sales and demand. They may even cancel the whole thing.

Look at how much PSX costs compared to PS2. many will rather haver the main console than to pay that much more for feature they may not see vital. Personally, PSX is a dream machine, especially the newest version that supports PSP video recording specs! Now when will the US version will ever be released!!

[Domination]

I also understand what you mean. But why is Sony trying to change the idea of what a console is supposed to be. It seems now adays that a console is not a console if it doesn't play DVD movies... hence why the gamecube got so much backlash.

You forget who it is you are referring to. It also has a lot to do with extending your options for entertainment.

[The Dude]

Jesus, why dont they just call it a PC? Really the line between console and PC is getting blurred.

[Domination]

Jesus, why dont they just call it a PC? Really the line between console and PC is getting blurred.

LOL! That's because it's not a PC. It has PC features, yes, but that doesn't classify it as a PC. All they are doing is taking sources of entertainment in which a PC uses that makes it entertaining and placing them into an entertainment box. Hense the term entertainment system or SCEI. :aim;-]:

[Danji]

Because the architecture on a PS3 is much more designed for multimedia than PCs are. The only way to get good results on running 1 HD stream on a PC is Nvidia's Geforce 7800 GTX ($600) and/or a really kick ass processor whereas the PS3 can do 6 or 7 at a time.

It also appeals to a much more economic market than PCs and doesn't require upgrades. That's why we can't just call it a PC and be done with it already.

[KiLLA2006]

Jesus, why dont they just call it a PC? Really the line between console and PC is getting blurred.

i disagree with this statement because other than for obvious reasons such as portability, the games for a console have easier controls, in my opinion, the controllers make it easy for me to play the game, where the PC is built around the keyboard and mouse, i know it may not seem like a big thing, but controls are the main reason why I haven't bought very many PC games i like my Dualshock, and also... there is no such thing as too much :closed:

[rpgamer_2k5]

Let the PS3 have PC functions matter of fact I want the PS3 to replace this junk that I'm using now. It doesn't seem like Sony is not destributing a limited version of Linux because they are moving toward an open entertainment system. If Sony's Linux is limited then I'll just have to end up installing Debian onto PS3 and the Cell's PPE is a PPC core, it shouldn't be difficult for another Linux destribution to be released on the PS3. :)

Personally, I feel th at the majority do not want to purchase a mid-end PC (>$700) nor do they want to purchase a hi-end Alienware PC. The PS3 will provide performance several times greater than the latter and at a cost lower than the former.

PCs are still mainly purchased by businesses or home businesses. PC gamers and normal consumers are still the minority.