PS3 as a PC?

[inuyasha16]

some people say the ps3 can be used as a computer is it true?

[Viper]

No in the manner you are used to however the processor inside, CELL, will eventually make its way into computers.

[Coded-Dude]

it will run linux....so yes

[rpgamer_2k5]

Well the PS3 has...

1. USB ports: Plug in a printer, scanner, speakers, headsets, etc.

2. Bluetooth: Wireless Keyboard and Mouse

3. Compatible with current PC monitors.

4. Can be set vertically, hence will fit in one's computer desk

5. Able to run Linux and possibly other OSes.

I seriously see the PS3 as my next-generation computer and I'm quite certain the majority of the computer users these days are not that tech-heavy so the PS3 is fine. Then again, this comment might be invalid since Linux on PS3 will be very open but a basic GUI designed by Sony should be available too.

[mikeeazy]

ken said himself that the PS3 will be a able to be used as a computer, like the ones you see on a desk. Not exactly sure what its limits are gonna be, but as long as i can go online and use Photoshop, its all good.

[Forbiden]

Indeed, since for sure we know it will run linux, so yes, just like the PS2, the PS3 will run linux, and hopefully Windows or Mac to be able to emulate. The only thing oposing this would be...HDD.

[Coded-Dude]

^emulation....its called wine
Linux can robustly emulate most window apps

WoW has been confirmed to run on Linux(the windows version)

[Z]

to make things clear and easy, you can better chose the thread titles. writing 'PS3' in the PS3 section is a bit confusing.

now on topic:
maybe it would be best to consider it as a media center PC?

or we can go to the question 'what IS a PC anyway'?
for me, I consider PS3 to be Like.No.Other

;)

[inuyasha16]

ok well right now no one will accually no any about PS3 exept for rumars right?

[F089/H]

It's all Hardcore!!1

[raVen]

this a good amount of actual info out now but u'll know it best when its in your hands.

[Schmeh]

Well the PS3 has...

1. USB ports: Plug in a printer, scanner, speakers, headsets, etc.

2. Bluetooth: Wireless Keyboard and Mouse

3. Compatible with current PC monitors.

4. Can be set vertically, hence will fit in one's computer desk

5. Able to run Linux and possibly other OSes.

I seriously see the PS3 as my next-generation computer and I'm quite certain the majority of the computer users these days are not that tech-heavy so the PS3 is fine. Then again, this comment might be invalid since Linux on PS3 will be very open but a basic GUI designed by Sony should be available too.

Just because the PS3 can do the 5 things you mentioned does not mean that it will be a computer in the way that most people think of a computer. For example the PS2 can do 4 of the five things you list, but I don't think anyone would refer to it as a computer.

1. So does the PS2

3. So is the PS2 with an adapter.

4. Also, so can the PS2

5. So can the PS2.

The major reason I don't think the PS3 will be a "computer" is the architecture of the Cell. Since the Cell is not an x86 cpu, most software that the majority of people use would need to reprogrammed to run. I just don't see software companies spending the time or money to reprogram software to run on the PS3.

[lip2lip]

but will ps3 naturally adhear to ps/2 mouse / keyboard pc-x standards that bluetooth transmits to wireless periferals?

ps/2 on ps3 is the question.!

[Loc]

Actually there was a dev kit for the PS2 that had Linux with it. So technically the PS2 was a computer.

[Loc]

Actually there was a dev kit for the PS2 that had Linux with it. So technically the PS2 was a computer.

[trakais]

the fact that it will be able to run linux doesn't mean anything. many mobile phones these days run linux, but you don't see any of it. i bet that linux will be used as a basis for some sony OS that will be able to show you movies, chat, use the eyetoy and maybe browse web. never are they going to release PS3 with a full linux distro, they would have to kill themselves when support emails start arriving.

[Forbiden]

Actually there was a dev kit for the PS2 that had Linux with it. So technically the PS2 was a computer.
Dude, dont double post. And indeed, there was a limited Linux kit with a HDD sold in the US, but it was removed due to unpopularity(it cost about 100$, including HDD and Network Adapter, keyboard and mouse, usb, and monitor cables.). PS2 could be a comp, if you had the kit, now it is hard to find even on ebay.

[Loc]

the fact that it will be able to run linux doesn't mean anything. many mobile phones these days run linux, but you don't see any of it. i bet that linux will be used as a basis for some sony OS that will be able to show you movies, chat, use the eyetoy and maybe browse web. never are they going to release PS3 with a full linux distro, they would have to kill themselves when support emails start arriving.

I can see Sony using Linux as an OS, followed up with the XMB for navigation since they seem to like that method the best. If Sony were to bundle every hard drive they sold with linux then it would mean wide-spread support.

Oh im sorry for double posting, its my first time on a message board, thank you for telling me the rules.

[Saibo]

3. Compatible with current PC monitors.



Well, i guess i'll put my question in here,since it relates to PS3 as a PC.

I've got a VGA monitor, i think most CRT(trinitron) are VGA still. So how can i hook a VGA cable into the PS3? AFAIK it doesnt come with a VGA port, only 2 HDMI. I havent seen any CRT monitors that have native HDMI cables(only on some HDTVs). Further more, how would i get audio output?VGA doesnt have a audio wire in built in like HDMI. So thats the problem im facing, any solutions to this would be nice. post them!. I was thinking about getting the PS3 with a HDD to run Linux as a second computer(alot cheaper than upgrading my current PC or buying a new PC), and to use it for independent game development.

I just dont see myself doing all of this digital content creation, thru a normal TV(not even HDTV) :|. Maybe over looked something in the PS3 specs??...

i pray, the Linux that bundles with the HDD, isnt some water down restricted OS. Something like Fedora Core 3, optimized for the Cell architecture would be perfect.

EDIT: doing some reading on HDMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
which one does the PS3 support, type A or B??

[MegaGrid]

I can also view PS3 as a computer.With a Linux as an OS why not. It can be great for Multimedia. Well localised distributed calculations is exactly what many Parallel Scientific calculations need. I am not yet sure what EPIC meant when they told that AI has to run only on PPE. Which aspects of AI did they mean? I am still puzzled. I can see the AI backbone stored there like decision making based on the knowledge of the world base. Ok this is certain to run on the PPE.

[Coded-Dude]

The Linux for Playstation kit made the PS2 a "worksattion" not necessarily a personal comuter or "pc."
It was used for development, but you could pretty much compile and run any application you wanted to.
Some people even leave their PS2 on all the time and use it as a "server"

The only drawback to the PS2 was the lack of device drivers.....you couldn't plug much of anything into it.

As I have stated before in past posts: the PS3 will me more of a multimedia "Server" than anything else(workstation/pc).
But I will be using mine as mine as my primary system, if it will be able to run any of the opensource desktops.
I think Sony will do well to let you have a wide variety of peripherals, but thats just my opinion
(fluxbox, fvwm, xfce, etc., etc.)

[Forbiden]

The Linux for Playstation kit made the PS2 a "worksattion" not necessarily a personal comuter or "pc."
It was used for development, but you could pretty much compile and run any application you wanted to.
Some people even leave their PS2 on all the time and use it as a "server"

The only drawback to the PS2 was the lack of device drivers.....you couldn't plug much of anything into it.

As I have stated before in past posts: the PS3 will me more of a multimedia "Server" than anything else(workstation/pc).
But I will be using mine as mine as my primary system, if it will be able to run any of the opensource desktops.
I think Sony will do well to let you have a wide variety of peripherals, but thats just my opinion
(fluxbox, fvwm, xfce, etc., etc.)

I think the only thing we wont be able to playon the PS3 PC wise(if its made a PC) is PC games like Half Life, since they require the most optimal of hardware, and althought the gpu and cpu are top of the line, the ram is not, as well as other components that make it lack gameplay for these type of games.

[Z]

I don't know about some of you, but I certainly don't consider PS3 to be a PC, nor do I wish to use it as one. I will use it as a media player, P2P, videoconfrencing, and for the rest of the announced online featurs but not as a traditional PC. that is what my PC is for. also, Sony is careful not to call PS3 a PC or show a direction to a PC wanabe. that is MS's focus. MS ultimately wants a PC in the living room. Sony wants and 'entertainment system/hub'.

[Coded-Dude]

Depends.....most pc games are able to support a wide variety of hardware.
Not everyone has the ability to buy the latest and greatest $500 graphics card!
Also, Like I said before World Of Warcraft emulates fine on linux..

Here is an inetersting article from Tom's Hardware:
Source (http://www6.tomshardware.com/business/20041230/)

Now remember these are on standard desktop PC's with decent hardware
We are talking about a modified GPU based off of the current best GPU(G70) AND the cell processor.
I think games might emulate better on teh PS3 linux than on standard PC Linux

[Domination]

I agree with Z. Calling the PS3 a PC is a little silly since the two share little in common with their architectures and the two serving different purposes.

Also, i wouldn't rule out anything as far as compatibility goes at this time. You forget, these consoles are set to be the center of your entertainment while making PCs a thing of the pass.

[rpgamer_2k5]

Just because the PS3 can do the 5 things you mentioned does not mean that it will be a computer in the way that most people think of a computer. For example the PS2 can do 4 of the five things you list, but I don't think anyone would refer to it as a computer.

1. So does the PS2

3. So is the PS2 with an adapter.

4. Also, so can the PS2

5. So can the PS2.

I am fully aware of that; the PS2 supported all of that and my points do not oppose these.The problem I see here is the lack of a definition. What you see a computer as something that uses a traditional architecture. On the other hand I use the term 'computer' more loosely since I feel that anything that 'computes' is a computer; with some more advanced than the others. Since the PS3 can run a full fledged Linux like the PS2, I can expect the PS3 to easily to replace my current PC without any problems.

The major reason I don't think the PS3 will be a "computer" is the architecture of the Cell. Since the Cell is not an x86 cpu, most software that the majority of people use would need to reprogrammed to run. I just don't see software companies spending the time or money to reprogram software to run on the PS3.

Now you're referring to the term 'PC'. The PS3 is not a PC aka x86 architecture system but it can replace a computer. ; ) Well the Cell CPU is said to be able to emulate x86 code quite nicely so I wouldn't doubt that the PS3 cannot run the applications available on Linux. I also expect various applications designed for the Cell to be available so I'll be going for that. It is true that many prefer Internet Explorer or MS Office but I really don't care about any of the popular applications.

I see the PS3 as a system that can replace my x86. :)

Dude: The Linux kit was meant for Linux enthusiasts and one can simply play around with it, even use it as their 'PC'. I can see that many are just stubborn and prefer the environment of Windows but this view is not universal. In the Eastern part of the World, many are looking towards Linux. A workstation is a computer used for a specific purpose. If you want to use the PS3 as a multimedia system, it can be considered a multimedia worksation. I for one will use the PS3 for a more general purpose.

I don't know about some of you, but I certainly don't consider PS3 to be a PC, nor do I wish to use it as one. I will use it as a media player, P2P, videoconfrencing, and for the rest of the announced online featurs but not as a traditional PC.

Yes, the PS3 isn't a PC according to your definition. However I will surf the web on my PS3, I will read my journals (pdf) with GhostViewer, use Open Office and StarOffice for school needs. For fun, I will use StarOffice Draw and Impress while also expanding on my programming capability. In addition like on Linux-PS2, I can play my mp3s, ogg files and what not. The PS3 meets my requiremnts. :)

Saibo:
Linux on PS3 will not be a water-downed version, it will be the complete set. If you don't like it then the other Cell-compatible distributions could be used as well. I expect a basic GUI along Gnone since it was available on the Linux distribution for the PS2. I don't think Sony will restrict access to non-Sony mastered discs because with the PS2, they were just being cautious.

As for the monitor. Linux on PS2 uses Sync on Green DB VGA mode as a standard so such monitors will be supported. I expect a VGA adapter to be released as well at a small cost.

To the rest: If you do not want to use the PS3 as a computer, don't, just buy a PC. I for one am financially constrained but want something high-end as a PC, the PS3 meets my needs. :)

[Schmeh]

Now you're referring to the term 'PC'. The PS3 is not a PC aka x86 architecture system but it can replace a computer. ; ) Well the Cell CPU is said to be able to emulate x86 code quite nicely so I wouldn't doubt that the PS3 cannot run the applications available on Linux.

Do you have a link to anything that talks about the Cell being able to emulate x86 efficiently? I ask because I have never seen anything regarding this subject other than speculation like the Blachford article.

Linux on PS3 will not be a water-downed version, it will be the complete set.

Do you have a link for this as well? Again I haven't seen anything other than speculation and cryptic interviews on the subject.

[woundingchaney]

I think the only thing we wont be able to playon the PS3 PC wise(if its made a PC) is PC games like Half Life, since they require the most optimal of hardware, and althought the gpu and cpu are top of the line, the ram is not, as well as other components that make it lack gameplay for these type of games.


The amount of ram available to a console is drastically different to the amount of ram available in a pc.

[xbdestroya]

The amount of ram available to a console is drastically different to the amount of ram available in a pc.

Well, yes and no - the console RAM situation actually would be similar to a PC environment in this situation, because one of the reasons a console is able to make due with less RAM is the lower OS-RAM overhead. Obviously in a situation where a full OS is being run and the user might be running some apps, 256 MB's of memory is going to be a constraint - but it should be more than enough for most things. As long as the total footprint used at any one moment in time is less than 256 megs as well, the performance is going to be very good. But anythign greater and it's going to need to go virtual memory to the HD.

[Forbiden]

That is what I meant, PC and videogame ram (console wise) is totaly diferent. The Xbox only has like 64 MB and its a smooth console when it comes to loading times, but PC RAM is different, and most peopel that know what is good for their PC have a good 1 Gig of ram, in order to play high res games. With only 512 on both consoles, its enought to make a "good" PC.

[xbdestroya]

That is what I meant, PC and videogame ram (console wise) is totaly diferent. The Xbox only has like 64 MB and its a smooth console when it comes to loading times, but PC RAM is different, and most peopel that know what is good for their PC have a good 1 Gig of ram, in order to play high res games. With only 512 on both consoles, its enought to make a "good" PC.

Well I only run with 512 megs of RAM and I have gotten close to maxing it out, but never have. Just don't run all that crap in the background or install too many RAM-hog apps. BUT, I'm not sure that for desktop purposes the PS3 has 512 megs of RAM. Cell has 256 megs of XDR, but is it able to access the GDDR-3 the same way that RSX is able to access the XDR? I forget actually.

[rpgamer_2k5]

Do you have a link to anything that talks about the Cell being able to emulate x86 efficiently? I ask because I have never seen anything regarding this subject other than speculation like the Blachford article.

I never said it will, it said it 'seems'. When the required journals are available but right now, I see nothing this in-depth available on the Cell henceforth I shall speculate. Transmeta has very fast x86 emulation technology so couldn't they chip in? It seems to me that the Cell will probably be able to do various operations done on hardware in software. I know I'm speculating but I really see something big happening.

Do you have a link for this as well? Again I haven't seen anything other than speculation and cryptic interviews on the subject.

What do you want me to prove? The PS3 will be using the Cell, Linux on PS2 is actually not that water-downed. It restricts access to non-Sony mastered discs which made it watered down. Other than that it was fully operational but was not able to run x86 or PPC code.

If the Cell cannot emulate x86 code well enough then many applications will likely be available. Also the Cell CPU should be able to run PPC applications so it won't start with nothing. IBM, Sony and Toshiba are definitely trying to push for Open applications to be developed for the Cell so I expect plenty homebrew apps. Then there is a good chance with the larger firms like Alias, Autodesk, etc providing middlewares for the PS3, it does increase the chances of their applications appearing on the Cell. Most applications that typical users use do not require much power but multimedia applications on the other hand require huge floating point capability. The Cell provide the solution so expect many software firms to support the Cell.

[Coded-Dude]

they will have a crosscompiler soon enough and you won't have to worry about emulating to many apps.
Games maybe(or other proprietay code), but opensource apps won't be an issue(just like the PS2 linux)

[Schmeh]

What do you want me to prove? The PS3 will be using the Cell, Linux on PS2 is actually not that water-downed. It restricts access to non-Sony mastered discs which made it watered down. Other than that it was fully operational but was not able to run x86 or PPC code.

If the Cell cannot emulate x86 code well enough then many applications will likely be available. Also the Cell CPU should be able to run PPC applications so it won't start with nothing. IBM, Sony and Toshiba are definitely trying to push for Open applications to be developed for the Cell so I expect plenty homebrew apps. Then there is a good chance with the larger firms like Alias, Autodesk, etc providing middlewares for the PS3, it does increase the chances of their applications appearing on the Cell. Most applications that typical users use do not require much power but multimedia applications on the other hand require huge floating point capability. The Cell provide the solution so expect many software firms to support the Cell.

It wasn't that I wanted you to prove anything, it is just that there are conflicting news stories and interviews on the possibility of the PS3 running more that PS3 games, web browsing, chat and other smaller custom applications. On one hand we have all the statements by Ken Kutaragi and on the other hand Kaz Hirai, Ken's boss, said in an interview that Sony wasn't trying to position the PS3 as a PC or Workstation.

Interview with Kaz Hirai:
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=2&cId=3141808

[xbdestroya]

Is Kaz Hirai Ken's boss though? The corporate structure with SCEE has become all muddled in my mind. Kutaragi answers directly to Stringer I believe, so I'm not sure he has a boss so to speak.

[Z]

yes, I can see PS3 running some applications like web surfing, multimedia, confrencing, chating, P2P and other such functions. for that, I think of it more as a media PC, or better yet, an 'entertainment center'. many do not know that term. well, it is new and PS3 is working on making it a reality. Sony doesn't want people to use a PC for such functions. and when you think about it, most home PC users only use those functions most of the time. if you are a heavy programmer, designer, etc. chances are you work in that feild and have a PC/Mac at your job. but most people only hardly use their PC. many of them don't even play PC games on them (like me).

[rpgamer_2k5]

Since the PS3 will be using the Cell and Linux, one can even 'force' programs to work. Even the PSP has a word processor available so even a homebrew version would be ready. OpenOffice will most likely to support the Cell in the future. For more power-intensive programs it is really a maybe because if developers release Cell-compatible application; if it happens then PS3 will support those too. :)

[Added Later]
Sony executives are saying that the PS3 is not being aimed to take a piece of the 'computer' or 'workstation' market because that will market will be catered by IBM, Toshiba and most likely the VAIO division. Even though SCEE are not aiming to take a piece of the market, many individuals will force the PS3 to run like a PC. We see it with the PSP, they made it broad and now we have homebrew apps are readily available. Sony tries to curb the homebrew apps but a way around that counter-measure is found. If Sony decides to do the same with the PS3 then they will lose again to the hackers. :D