Dynasty Worriors

[thedynamite007]

Just want clarification is it 1 million or 150,000 polygons per character and npc. Since in http://psinext.com/index.php?categoryid=3&m_articles_articleid=139 and other game sites and forum there interpretation is 150k but in http://ps3.ign.com/articles/635/635527p1.html (if thats true WOW!!!) so what is it?

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

I haven't had a chance to sit down and translate the vid myself, but I think the 1.5 million thing is a translation error. If you had only ten people on screen you'd have fifteen million polys per frame being rendered. Basically you'd run out of geometry resources on just a handful of characters and a simple environment. There's one thing to consider. Another is that to most people, 150,000 polys and 1.5 million polys may as well be the same. Most people are going to think it's movie grade one way or another, so again, why bother with the 1.5 mills... two more things to note in defense of the 150,000 poly liklihood are A.) some visible geometry in a few spots, and B.) the hair is faked. With a 1.5 million poly budget for a character you may as well not fake it. Just a few things, nothing concrete, but sensible nontheless.

Quick exercise... Do a comparison between the character model in the "Ni-Oh" demo and the one from the Dawn tech demo that Nvidia used for the old Geforce FX series. She's 180,000 polys. Then compare both of them to the Nalu model from the Geforce 6800 series demo of the same name. She's 360,000 polys, most of which is hair. It'll quickly become apparent.


Later

Iridius Dio


PS: If it's not a translation issue, then it may also be that the 1.5 million is for a model to derive normals maps from. You don't really need them at this high of a poly resolution, I don't think, but still. And a final thing if there is no translation error, is that they very well may be that high quality (doubtful because of the blatantly visible geometry) for the purposes of showing off.

[Voidler]

Yeah, it should be 150k, which is still amazing for a game with hundreds of characters onscreen

[MTse]

I can confirmed that is 1.5M. the JP word "万" means 10k

[Z]

in the tech video, you can clearly see at the very beginning a two mesh head models. the on on the left is from PS2 composed of 1000 polys. the one next to it is the PS3 model composed of 150,000. note that these numbers are for the head polys alone. also keep in mind that the head, due to various details and animation, has the most poly count in the entire character model. the body as a whole may be made from 2, maybe, 3 times the numbers of polys used for the head alone.

Jack 1 character model was made from about 1500 polys. Jack 2's face in the cut scenes (due to close up) was made with 500 polys alone.

in nVidia's Nula, the mermaid, her hair had the most number of polygones of the entire body.
having said that, I doubt 1.5Million would be used for the face alon. also, Koei said the 150K number (still not sure if it is for the head alone, or for the entire body) is for all the characters you saw on that screen. the final game may very well come out with that number...if not more.

PS. might as well make this the Ni-Oh thread.

I can confirmed that is 1.5M. the JP word "万" means 10k

that actually proves it is 150000. 1.5x10k=150,000 :aim;-]:

[warmachine]

that actually proves it is 150000. 1.5x10k=150,000 :aim;-]:

1.5x10k = 15000 :aim;-]:
150x10k = 1.500.000 :aim;-]:

Are those 1.5 Mio. for the face only, or for the whole guy?

[thedynamite007]

Come to think of it I think the 150k is just the head OH my!!! Even 150k for a whole character is already mindblowing imagine 150k on the head alone. BS!!!

[Gounmckuber]

thedynamite007, Isnt this more of a Dynasty warriors demo than a ni-ho. I say this because ni-oh had some dude with white hair kicking ass and he was the main character. The guy in this demonstration is from dynasty warriors , right?

[thedynamite007]

thedynamite007, Isnt this more of a Dynasty warriors demo than a ni-ho. I say this because ni-oh had some dude with white hair kicking ass and he was the main character. The guy in this demonstration is from dynasty warriors , right?

Yes I stand corrected. At first we all thought it is nion but then its DW. i cannot change the title anymore of the topic

[hell0]

oo er oh my, maybe theyre making a new DW game :D

[cpiasminc]

I'm fairly sure the 1.5 million is for source art (normal map generation). Probably the only reason they make the comparison is because the discussion might have been on art pipeline. If we had a recording the actual discussion going on during that time, I could probably translate it.

[MTse]

Actually I just do the direct translation from Jp to english..

it said playstation 2 1000 polygons vs playstation 3 1.5m polygons

http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/koeiinfo/image/050721_5.jpg

[xbdestroya]

Yeah 1.5 million is definitely mentioned in the translation, but I thought the actual characters in the demo were 150,000 polygons. This has been a point of confusion for everyone it seems - I had an article yesterday going over the Koei presentation in particular, but it was Japanese and I've lost it and the link now. I believe they talked about both 1.5 million and 150,000 polygons, however.

[thedynamite007]

Okay then its settled its 1 million polygons per character. WOW!!!! Come to think of it I think the one being refered to as 150k is the face only. Imagine this the game is still unfinish and it will look much better

[Domination]

I'm not completely convinced just yet, but if this is true, then that's impressive.

[julps31]

Exactly. Theres so many things up in the air right now about the PS3 (killzone graphics, GPU power, this game lol). So many questions...so few answers. Either way I'll be satisfied. 150,000 is very impressive...but 1.5 million is just incredible. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Lumine]

Where did people get the impression that it was Ni-Oh? That was straight up Guan "God of War" Yu kicking some ass.

[Metal Sphere]

Where did people get the impression that it was Ni-Oh? That was straight up Guan "God of War" Yu kicking some ass.

Maybe not everyone is a Dynasty Warriors fan, or if they played the game they may not have been paying much attention to the characters. Guan Yu is the meng, that's for sure.

[Lumine]

Maybe not everyone is a Dynasty Warriors fan, or if they played the game they may not have been paying much attention to the characters. Guan Yu is the meng, that's for sure.

I meant more along the lines of sites reporting on the demo than forum people. IGN reported it as Ni-Oh for sure, then corrected themselves. Poor form.

[Metal Sphere]

I meant more along the lines of sites reporting on the demo than forum people. IGN reported it as Ni-Oh for sure, then corrected themselves. Poor form.

Ah, I see what you mean. Well other than most expecting Ni-Oh instead of Dynasty Warriors going into the meeting, I don't see why they would confuse the two.

[cpiasminc]

Actually I just do the direct translation from Jp to english..

it said playstation 2 1000 polygons vs playstation 3 1.5m polygons
Yeah, the image pretty clearly says that "1000 porigon" vs "150man porigon", but that says nothing about the context in which they're talking about it.

They could have been saying something along the lines of "With PS2, artists could only work with a single model at 1000 polygons or so, and had to use standard texture layering to make the content visually acceptable. With the PS3, artists can build content starting from extremely high polygon meshes on the order of 1.5 million polygons to build normal maps..." etc...

Either way, I don't care how powerful CELL/RSX is, 1.5 million actual polys on a complexly skinned character in realtime is not happening. Maybe, just MAYBE, 1.5 million total polygons per frame, but even that I'd doubt on not complete hardware with early implementations.

[Z]

so the game is good ol' Dynasty Worrior (does that game ever ends?). sorry blondie of Ni-Oh, but your time will come soon enough ;)

*corrected Thread Name*

yes, it certainly sais 1.5million. know that we got that out of the way, it is simply impossible to have large character numbers on screen each with 1.5 million polys. that just not going to happen. I even have a hard time accepting 150k for that many soldiers.

[Raijin]

Z> LOL, Dynasty Warriors :p

[Gounmckuber]

"Our challenge will be to create a game that is as high quality as the graphics the PS3 can create. We look forward to the Tokyo Game Show" This may be playable in Sep and gamespot says Koei also built thier own engine.:)

[xbdestroya]

This may be playable in Sep and gamespot says Koei also built thier own engine.:)

I actually think a lot of the Japanese companies are going to be using internally developed engines at one point or another. We'll see how it plays out, but I feel the new functionality/tools added to the SDK's are targeted more towards Western devs than anyone else, or just smaller studios in general who don't have the resources to invest much beyond the SDK in the first place.

[Z]

I agree. somegames may require specific attentions to particular aspects better suited by customized engine efforts than a mass distributed engine. I think games such as MGS, RE, GT may use fully, or partially, custome engines.

still, make such tools ready saves alot of development time that was going to be spent on creating such tools. this announcement may have come as a surprise to many devs around the world. that is why I think many big Jap devs (if not all) have been working on custom engines for a while to be able to get something ready for the lucrative launch window.

[raVen]

---my bad for the double post---

[raVen]

I'm sure Dynasty Warriors will be one of their two launch titles judging from the video it looks like the game will be more story oriented I've been off dynasty warriors since... 4...? but that looks like Guan Yu's daughter (if he has one) that he slashes at the end, and I think the sphere is a symbol of Liu Bei ... then again i dont remember and im probably making this up

[Danji]

I haven't seen the part of the video involving the whacking of people just him bouncing the ball with his spear.

Good job Lumine on knowing the name they gave Guan Yu in that era. Most people don't remember that from the game.

[raVen]

I haven't seen the part of the video involving the whacking of people just him bouncing the ball with his spear.

Good job Lumine on knowing the name they gave Guan Yu in that era. Most people don't remember that from the game.

I remember when he stood on the bridge and held back 1000(?) warriors great scene

[julps31]

The thing about this demo is that it looks early to me. So the finished game should look noticebly better. It has the early look that i'd expect from a tech demo. Look at the very first bouncer demo (before it was titled) and the visual weren't even comparable to the finished producted. This has a dark and drab look to it...like most tech demos or games early in the development cycle. In other words i'm excited to see what the finished game will look like with the finishing touches added to it.

[Saibo]

Yeah, the image pretty clearly says that "1000 porigon" vs "150man porigon", but that says nothing about the context in which they're talking about it.

They could have been saying something along the lines of "With PS2, artists could only work with a single model at 1000 polygons or so, and had to use standard texture layering to make the content visually acceptable. With the PS3, artists can build content starting from extremely high polygon meshes on the order of 1.5 million polygons to build normal maps..." etc...

Either way, I don't care how powerful CELL/RSX is, 1.5 million actual polys on a complexly skinned character in realtime is not happening. Maybe, just MAYBE, 1.5 million total polygons per frame, but even that I'd doubt on not complete hardware with early implementations.

Im going to have to side with you on this one, its probably 150,000 triangles for the game res character, and 1.5 million for the high res normal map version. Still 150 K triangles is IMPRESSIVE.

[Z]

when trying to imagine the game would be like during play, I tend to look at Heavenly Sword. in particular, the scene where she throws herself in the middle of the enemy's army. slashing and hacking while being circled by soldiers. up, pritty much what DW is about.

[thedynamite007]

I remember when he stood on the bridge and held back 1000(?) warriors great scene

Was that in the video? Its impressive that it a million polygons on ALL CHARACTERS!

[martel]

I remember when he stood on the bridge and held back 1000(?) warriors great scene

Do you mean the Battle of Chang Ban when Liu Bei is trying to escape? Cause that's Liu's other sworn brother, Zhang Fei, holding the bridge. Not Guan Yu.

[Danji]

Do you mean the Battle of Chang Ban when Liu Bei is trying to escape? Cause that's Liu's other sworn brother, Zhang Fei, holding the bridge. Not Guan Yu.

That's what I thought but I didn't say anything because it was a while ago that I played DW4 and I traded it in and haven't yet bought DW5 *is hoping it will become a greatest hit and save me a lot of money*

[Darkon]

Great Dynasty Warriors is also going to be on 360 WTF is Sony doing

[O.D.S]

is it? got a link?

[Illmatic]

Great Dynasty Warriors is also going to be on 360 WTF is Sony doing


It has nothing to do with Sony. It's developed by Omega Force and published by Koei, alot more third party games are going to be multi platform this coming gen, just look at Ridge Racer.

[Darkon]

It has nothing to do with Sony. It's developed by Omega Force and published by Koei, alot more third party games are going to be multi platform this coming gen, just look at Ridge Racer.

That’s what i don't like , Sony should be securing third party games

[Illmatic]

I don't see the big deal, Dynasty Warriors was on the Xbox this gen, ridge Racer was on N64 last gen, i'd rather them secure killer apps such as DMC for eg.

[Raijin]

That’s what i don't like , Sony should be securing third party games

Yeah but what? I mean, It's a remake of a PS2 game man. Nothing really exciting. The new Dynasty Warrior game will be on PS3 and RR next-gen will be on PS3 too. Microsoft is giving a lot of money to obtain only what? A port or a remake.

[thedynamite007]

Yeah but what? I mean, It's a remake of a PS2 game man. Nothing really exciting. The new Dynasty Warrior game will be on PS3 and RR next-gen will be on PS3 too. Microsoft is giving a lot of money to obtain only what? A port or a remake.

Wow talk about e3 style meeting!!! yah it really is like the e3 and it suxs also

[Z]

Wow talk about e3 style meeting!!! yah it really is like the e3 and it suxs also
lol. hillarious!