My prediction on that Xbucks meeting

[agentorange]

1. They will copy what Ps3 did with boasting of sotware dev kit support.
2. Demos of showing xbox power and they will boast that its only 25%
3. announcement of silent hill
4. announce ment of Final fantasy but not the main series
5. A port of soul calibur 3
6. support from taito, bandai, aruze, etc from small jap dev.
7.games from seag, namco, capcom will be playable
8. Lauch date, pricing
9. another dev will fall into MS bribe
10. Resident evil 5 we shall all see whats the difference between ps3 and xbucks
11. Suikoden
12. They will boast that they will sell 1 million at xbox launch in jap
13. Bill gates will show his filthy face on video and laugh hehehe!!!!

[stanDarsh]

This doesn't belong here, moved to Xbox forums

[thedynamite007]

My prediction is that it will sux!

[thedynamite007]

IS THAT IT!? I saw an early news from the summit http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3142257 in gamespot and ign they have news already nothing impressive and we all know that Ridge racer is a multi console game. M$ is that it? Oh my it totally suxs. Where is ninja gaiden(which strongely suggest a ps3 release) and what the hell with fXI thats already 3 years old? the one from koei is just a upgrade of the previous one. And most of the games that are on the list will also be surely appear on Ps3. and most of you critizise ps3 demos even if they are much better than xbucks even at alpha stage but look at the pics and movies of games showed they all suxs also and the great ones are just a high end pc look! So this is what they are boasting? Lets just sleep

[sif]

This is a next gen game? hah

http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/1216/full-res/1122275601.jpg

but but the edram!1! Look at the jaggies and poor textures. Where did the hidden power go??

[O.D.S]

:fuckedup: are you serious?

well im not going to pass my final verdict until it actually comes out, that gives them about 4 months to sort things out...

c'mon guys no fanboy crap (just yet) let the 360 come out, then it will show its true power

[sif]

this is on a beta kit (posted today) apparently 90% of the chipset (according to MS) and it looks like a high(ish) res original xbox game, I see no point in waiting when we already have proof, that the 360 is launching too early.

[thedynamite007]

the fact is the games in 360 is looks just the same with pc games running on high end graphic card. no more future potential

[Z]

I was kicked in the face with the horrible MTV show. but I said to myself, hey, E3 is around the corner. that is where all the bombs go off! I was blown away by Sony. completely jaw dropping show. my expectations were laughed at and I was drooling buckets. then Sony offered a ride to X2's event. it sounded strange at the beginning, but what the heck. when X2's E3 unvieleing ended, I understood why Sony drived people to it themselves...

but wait, E3 was a hox, Bach said in other words, Tokyo's event is da bomb. there you'll see the REAL X2 and "there will be no doubt any more", said Bach. so I get my hopes up again only to be kicked in the face again...for the third time. TGS is 1.5 months from now. X2's launch is 2 months after that. it will go into full production in 2 months from now. there isn't time to change anything drastic. and with such results, I wonder what I am doing following up these 'surprises'. well, they were huge surprises indeed.

about the meeing, I didn't see the RR announcement coming. okay, thats good. pics look good to. what else? they gave me Xbox looking games? DoA and Rumble Roses and others anyone? many can mistakenly think Rumble Roses was from the PS2 version. the only two good looking 'best of show' are good looking PC games of today. WTF?!
and they insult out intelligence by giving us a PS2 DW remake? is that intended as a joke from Koei?

one thing that really shocked me. I am a tech freak. I was looking forward to follow every tech demo detail from all three. Ninty showed nothing, but to my surprise, MS showed nothing as well. at E3 they began by showing people dancing around the living room. err, what has that to do with next-gen gaming? anyway, I continued the show. they quickly mentioned Live and stuck with it. okay, Live is appealing. now get to those tech demos already! show me potential! then the show ended. hello? is that it? where are the tech demos? Box showed demoes of it litterally smashing a PS2 (irnonically, that game came to PS2. to add insult to ijury, it had poor sales). they had a number of tech demos that they aren't acheiving to today. what about X2?
and as far as I know, no tech demos were present at todays meeting also. this is only a couple of days when PS3 showed five new stellar looking games. and new tech info on the E3 demos. they aslo had the first ever playable game, Gundam, which look exactly like the E3 trailer (minus some smoke pics).

now this come along: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/636/636142p1.html

something is seriously wrong here. where is the biggest MS games; PD0 and Halo 3? and no more N64 pics of the first please!

finally, nearly all the games announced for X2 are multiplatforms. look at how many multiplatforms Sony showed for PS3. that's right ZERO!

where are the X2 fans to give me little hope? anyone?

[[[tavis]]]

if xbox360 was not gonna be as capable as the ps3 you think M$ would still bluff. shut up people

[Z]

what do you man by "bluff" ? you mean they are playing dumb? wake up and smell the coffee.

[O.D.S]

ive read from another forum (shame on me) that the above game is running on the Unreal Engine 3

dont flame me, im just asking is it? because it certainly doesnt look like it

[MediaStream]

:fuckedup: are you serious?

well im not going to pass my final verdict until it actually comes out, that gives them about 4 months to sort things out...

c'mon guys no fanboy crap (just yet) let the 360 come out, then it will show its true power

If the early November launch is still being targeted, MS and the launch developers have at the most another couple of months to come up with something better than what they've shown so far.

It takes about a week or two to send off a GM to be manufactured and shipped out to stores.

GM approval and final internal testing are about a month realistically.

It is possible that major improvements are going to happen between now and early September, but that is really into desperate last hope territory. Most console games look very close to the final shipping version months before the GM leaves the dev house for manufacturing.

[Z]

[[tavis]]
shut up people

what a smart and intelligent thing to say. okay people, let us all be quite......
okay, that was dumber than I thought.

back on topic;
minor changes like the look of the case, positions of buttons, etc. can still be made (though not for long). but drastic changes are meant CPU or GPU specs, memory management, etc. these need research. they need time to implement and figure out. when you make such a change, more than likely you will case some what of a chain reaction of changes. I don't think there is time for such drastic changes if they wish to keep their Nov. launch time. X2 goes into full production only two months from now. that is what some major sites are reporting like GI.biz and others.

[O.D.S]

To MediaStream: i was being a bit sarcastic there, although before i saw some of the PS3 tech demoes i was looking forward to playing a 360 (mainly because J Allard kept shouting out "NEXT GEN!!!",... what a tool!) :dur:

To Z: yeah i see your point of desperation there, Microsoft better be bluffing up till now and really show some destructive power at TGS, although by then the actual hardware is in production.

another point:
Sony stated their system currently runs at ~75%
At E3 Microsoft stated their system ran at ~25%-30%
at yesterdays conference wasnt the Xbox360 supposably running at ~90%
so is this their 60% jump? (maybe they included their sound and charging capabilities in the equation) :shrug: ... :laugh:

BTW - great comeback their Z - (and if your really quiet you can hear the voices in your head...can you hear the voices?... :aim:-p: )

[thedynamite007]

I was kicked in the face with the horrible MTV show. but I said to myself, hey, E3 is around the corner. that is where all the bombs go off! I was blown away by Sony. completely jaw dropping show. my expectations were laughed at and I was drooling buckets. then Sony offered a ride to X2's event. it sounded strange at the beginning, but what the heck. when X2's E3 unvieleing ended, I understood why Sony drived people to it themselves...

but wait, E3 was a hox, Bach said in other words, Tokyo's event is da bomb. there you'll see the REAL X2 and "there will be no doubt any more", said Bach. so I get my hopes up again only to be kicked in the face again...for the third time. TGS is 1.5 months from now. X2's launch is 2 months after that. it will go into full production in 2 months from now. there isn't time to change anything drastic. and with such results, I wonder what I am doing following up these 'surprises'. well, they were huge surprises indeed.

about the meeing, I didn't see the RR announcement coming. okay, thats good. pics look good to. what else? they gave me Xbox looking games? DoA and Rumble Roses and others anyone? many can mistakenly think Rumble Roses was from the PS2 version. the only two good looking 'best of show' are good looking PC games of today. WTF?!
and they insult out intelligence by giving us a PS2 DW remake? is that intended as a joke from Koei?

one thing that really shocked me. I am a tech freak. I was looking forward to follow every tech demo detail from all three. Ninty showed nothing, but to my surprise, MS showed nothing as well. at E3 they began by showing people dancing around the living room. err, what has that to do with next-gen gaming? anyway, I continued the show. they quickly mentioned Live and stuck with it. okay, Live is appealing. now get to those tech demos already! show me potential! then the show ended. hello? is that it? where are the tech demos? Box showed demoes of it litterally smashing a PS2 (irnonically, that game came to PS2. to add insult to ijury, it had poor sales). they had a number of tech demos that they aren't acheiving to today. what about X2?
and as far as I know, no tech demos were present at todays meeting also. this is only a couple of days when PS3 showed five new stellar looking games. and new tech info on the E3 demos. they aslo had the first ever playable game, Gundam, which look exactly like the E3 trailer (minus some smoke pics).

now this come along: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/636/636142p1.html

something is seriously wrong here. where is the biggest MS games; PD0 and Halo 3? and no more N64 pics of the first please!

finally, nearly all the games announced for X2 are multiplatforms. look at how many multiplatforms Sony showed for PS3. that's right ZERO!

where are the X2 fans to give me little hope? anyone?

So what they did since the xbox is underpowered they ad lots of add on contents, free hard disk and build in software. As an all in opne console. What a cheater they are in this business community embedding alll there stuff like there monopoly case in windows.

By the way most of the games showed like rumble rose, ridge racer, resident evil, tokyo extrme, etc will be ported to ps3 and thats for sure with better graphics and additional content. A better investemt for 6 years is ps3 so thats why every penny is worth it

[Junox50]

So what they did since the xbox is underpowered they ad lots of add on contents, free hard disk and build in software. As an all in opne console. What a cheater they are in this business community embedding alll there stuff like there monopoly case in windows.

By the way most of the games showed like rumble rose, ridge racer, resident evil, tokyo extrme, etc will be ported to ps3 and thats for sure with better graphics and additional content. A better investemt for 6 years is ps3 so thats why every penny is worth it

I hope your right. Rumble Roses wasent the game it could have been due to the PS2's weak hardware, but I still enjoyed it. I was surprised to see Konami announcing the game for Xbox 360 first and not PS3.

I don't plan on getting a 360, because of the game library. I think it will be a port for PS3 like Dead or Alive 2:Hardcore was for the PS2 that had more content than the Dreamcast version. I just hope the game comes to PS3 sooner or later.

About what Microsoft showed: Yeah, I agree, it was dissapointing. Anything they seem to show for Xbox 360 doesent surprise or interest me. I expected to see something that jumped out and wowed me, but they showed nothing good so far.

They have to do better than what they've done so far, or else Sony's going to grind them into the dirt.

[Mr. Witt]

Sorry, Sony isn't going to grind ANYONE into the dirt this generation. Xbox 360 is coming in November for a nice Christmas sales boost.

And the PS3 just isn't going to be worth buying. How can they expect to sell a console with 2 $500 processors for less than $500?? If the price is anywhere *close* to being reasonable, then Sony is going to lose so much money per console they'll go bankrupt.

And I just haven't seen any Sony games that impress me. Killzone 2 was the best looking game at e3. Was that gameplay footage? Nope. Was Killzone 1 any good? Nope.

And then there's Nintendo. Unless Nintendo really impresses me, I won't be picking up a Revolution. I'm tired of Nintendo saying "OLOL YOU GYUS WE GOT ZELDA!!1!11!" and they base their console sales on old, exclusive titles.

It may not be blowing the shit out of this generation, but the 360 is the best choice we've got.

[rpgamer_2k5]

]']if xbox360 was not gonna be as capable as the ps3 you think M$ would still bluff. shut up people

Mr. Allard already said that, "power isn't everything" or "FLOPs isn't everything", really those two statements are clearly idiotic if Xbox 360 is just as capable.
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Speculation: Maybe this is all a setup. OR Maybe J Allard was just intoxicated when he made those topics. I never knew thought the next-gen Console rivalry would have so much soap opera. :wave:

[rpgamer_2k5]

another point:
Sony stated their system currently runs at ~75%

Maybe I'm missing on the news but when was this stated? A source would be nice.

[MediaStream]

Mr. Allard already said that, "power isn't everything" or "FLOPs isn't everything", really those two statements are clearly idiotic if Xbox 360 is just as capable.
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.
.
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Speculation: Maybe this is all a setup. OR Maybe J Allard was just intoxicated when he made those topics. I never knew thought the next-gen Console rivalry would have so much soap opera. :wave:

Don't forget 'rebranding' the xbox devkit and claiming that is your edge.

[Junox50]

Sorry, Sony isn't going to grind ANYONE into the dirt this generation. Xbox 360 is coming in November for a nice Christmas sales boost.

And the PS3 just isn't going to be worth buying. How can they expect to sell a console with 2 $500 processors for less than $500?? If the price is anywhere *close* to being reasonable, then Sony is going to lose so much money per console they'll go bankrupt.

And I just haven't seen any Sony games that impress me. Killzone 2 was the best looking game at e3. Was that gameplay footage? Nope. Was Killzone 1 any good? Nope.

And then there's Nintendo. Unless Nintendo really impresses me, I won't be picking up a Revolution. I'm tired of Nintendo saying "OLOL YOU GYUS WE GOT ZELDA!!1!11!" and they base their console sales on old, exclusive titles.

It may not be blowing the shit out of this generation, but the 360 is the best choice we've got.


Now, how exactly do you know all of this when neither console has been released yet? How is it that the PS3 isnt going to be worth buying? How do you know that for a fact? And what's with the last sentence?

It may not be blowing the shit out of this generation, but the 360 is the best choice we've got.

Who is this "we" you speak of?

[nemesis121]

Mr. Allard already said that, "power isn't everything" or "FLOPs isn't everything", really those two statements are clearly idiotic if Xbox 360 is just as capable.
.
.
.
.
Speculation: Maybe this is all a setup. OR Maybe J Allard was just intoxicated when he made those topics. I never knew thought the next-gen Console rivalry would have so much soap opera. :wave:


The reason why he stated that because they learned, xbox was supposed to have toy story graphics, but at the end of the day xbox graphics was no where close to toy story graphics, the GPU also suffered with from the same bottlenecks the geforce 3 suffered from, and never obtain 50% of it's theoretical specs. This time around there goal wasn't power, but efficiency they wanted a powerful system, but at the same time an efficient one. If what they say about XENOS is true then they might have accomplished there goal.

Only time will tell how efficient XENOS is and how well the devs use the system, even if XENOS is weaker than RSX it might still be close in graphics, it won't look like how PS2 and xbox were, instead it will be like GC and xbox. GC's GPU was very efficient and it showed, just look at RE4 compared to some of the top graphical xbox games, xbox has a slight edge. If that's the edge RSX has over the XENOS then it will be a harder battle for MS, because the way I see it IF MS doesn't have the graphical edge they will be in trouble, because that's what made alot of people buy there system in the first place, only time will tell if they can capture the casual gamer.

[Mr. Witt]

Now, how exactly do you know all of this when neither console has been released yet?

I don't plan on getting a 360, because of the game library.

I could ask you the same...

How is it that the PS3 isnt going to be worth buying? How do you know that for a fact?

Because I've been trying to remain unbiased even since it was unveiled? I explained that it was going to be expensive as hell, because if it wasn't, then Sony would go bankrupt. I just don't see myself paying for a $500+ game console (probably closer to $800), when we haven't even see it's true power (i.e., ingame footage.) All of these are points I covered in my last post. Right now, it just doesn't seem logical to shell out a fortune to get a PS3.*

Who is this "we" you speak of?

We as in, the gaming community as a whole.

I'm not even arguing with you here. I'm just clarifying what I already said.

*This applies to this moment, hence the "right now" at the beginning of the sentence. I could see something more that makes the PS3 seem a lot better, but as for now, I'm unimpressed.

[Z]

for any single person to say PS3 games so far don't look good, by that , and by default, he states that X2 games are so horrible they make you throw up. because no matter how you look at it, there is a HUGE difference in what was show for both.

for the poor soles that actually believe MS is 'holding up', I am sorry to brake it for you but what you see is what you get. no company in the world will intentionally blow off the world's biggest game convention (E3) and then say the 'true' power will be seen, then blow that off again. by the time TGS hits, X2 will be in full production. that means it is set in stone. nothing will change for the next cycle.

for those who , for some reason, think PS3 will cost +$500, you need to ease up on the crack. firstly, the very last info we'll know about PS3 is the price and it will be around a month before launch. but till then, rembmer what EVERYONE and his dog said about PSP's price tag. PSP's actuall price is LESS than HALF of the best analysits' estimate. they said it will go between $400-$500. the standard unit is about $180!
Sony offically stated that PS3's price will be around PS2's and PSOne's at their launch. that is $299 in N America. by that, it is safe to say that PS3 WILL NOT be higher than $349 or cheaper than $299. and what I REALLY want to know is how you can innocently presume X2's price? how do you know it will have this price tag or that one?


Finally, the topic isn't price tags. the topic is the HUGE disappointment that is X2 so far. absolutely ZERO tech demos? how weak can it possibly be for not having standard tech demos?! and what's with the current gen graphics? Every Party trailer? how desperate are they for games to show that graphical garbage? yeah sure, some say a couple of kiddy games MAY be useful, but not at this critical stage. these are times when you make a mindset of your system. you want people to allianate X2 with those graphics? This is at a time where some people STILL think that the awesome PS3 trailers are pure CG! some people can't even believe the 'playable' Gundam trailer, saying it is some sort of consperincy or something.

the only reason people bought Box is for its graphical advantage. what if it turns out to be the weakest system this gen- as it very much looks like it? launching earlier has its advantages AND disatvantages. and ONE holyday shopping season is good, but is it enough to base you're entire system on for at least the next five years?

what MS is praying for is ignorance. if you don't know what that means, then you are what MS wants.

[Red_Eyes]

And if you think that this is as bad as it gets for Microsoft, just wait until Tyoko Game Show, where Sony MAY be showing playable demos. A 16 players multiplayer level playable demo of Killzone 3 is enough to blow everything away.

[Skidz]

But thats just it, PS3 fans are "hoping" for some playable demos at TGS, while I'm betting the X360 WILL have playable demos of games.

Sony bassically showed CG movies at E3 and the uneducated people actually bought it. Sony was too busy showing "tech demos" while X360 was showing in-game footage.

I remember seeing GT5 and thinking it looked exactly like GT4 but with more things on-screen, how many of u will disagree with me on that?

I don'y want to see ducks in a bath-tub, I want to see PGR3 in-motion, which is exactly what I saw. I don't want to see a CG sequence of a shooter, I want to see Ghost Recon 3 in-game footage, which is exactly what I saw. The one thing that did impress me was the Unreal showing, but that looked comparable to Gears of War IMO.

And then when they showed the Resident Evil trailer, everyone thought it was from a PS3, but they happened to show the exact same trailer for the 360's summit and never actually told anyone what system it was running on... my guess? It'll look the same on both consoles, just like many other games.

Don't get me wrong, I'm buying both, but to say that one looks horrible and one look amazing is ignorant in and of itself... From what I've seen so far (which is as much as u have seen), both consoles' graphics look very similar, yet 360 will have a significant head-start on the market.

[O.D.S]

To rpgamer_2k5:

sorry for not posting a link, i just thought people already knew about it

It's being claimed that the PlayStation 3 hardware showcased at E3 last month was running at only 75 per cent of the final system speed. That's according to Japanese website ITmedia, which recently revealed that the development kits that powered the likes of Killzone 2 and the superb Unreal Tournament 2007 demo from Epic Games were running on hardware clocked at just 75 per cent of the hardware's final projected speed.

ITMedia argued that whilst the final Cell chip will be chugging along at 3.2GHz, the chip in the development kits runs at 2.4GHz. What's more, the graphics part used for the demos wasn't the final RSX chip, but rather a different NVIDIA GPU which may not have been optimised for the PS3's high-speed RAMBUS memory interface.

LINK: http://palgn.com.au/article.php?id=2557

Its obvious since the SDK's are clocked lower, have a less powerfull GPU, they only have around 1/20th of the available memory (to and from the cell and GPU) and lets not forget the interaction between cell and RSX.

So it can be seen quite clearly that the PS3 has a few improvments to make (does it even need any? :smoke: )

[agentorange]

I bet my life that it will not be $500 but 399 okay

[Gounmckuber]

I thought pgr3 looked great. It had an excellent looking crowd also. Enchant arms looked nice but not on pgr3 level. Isnt microsoft having another event before tgs? It would be great if Team ninja and Capcom showed us some video of Dmc4 and NG2 at tgs. :) I wonder if team ninja can take the crown of best action game away from capcom since we all know Dmc3 is the current champ :3eye: :evillaugh

[Z]

But thats just it, PS3 fans are "hoping" for some playable demos at TGS, while I'm betting the X360 WILL have playable demos of games.
PS3 fans are hoping because their system is a bitter-sweet year away, at least. so it is too soon any way. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that X2 will have playable demos. after all, just before TGS starts, X2 will be going into full production. it will be released two months after TGS. they should have most of the launch titles ready by the. by that, you shouldn't just be playing demos, you should see full out complete versions of the games.
Sony bassically showed CG movies at E3 and the uneducated people actually bought it. Sony was too busy showing "tech demos" while X360 was showing in-game footage.

that is what I am talking about; ignorance. for those who still believe those weren't possible on PS3- which showes how much better they are from X2's game content- consider this:
everything shown at E3-EVERYTHING-is possible on PS3. if you find that hard to believe, then just forget everything about E3. look at what was shown at the PS Meestin last week. ALL that footage was 'specifically' mentioned to be ALL in-game. so if you compare the graphical complexity and superiority of PS3 to X2, I guess you see Endless Saga, Lair, Project Force and others to look exactly like DoA and any other X2 game?
just to be clear; all next gen systems- yes all, including Rev- will look amazing. but to say that what was shown so far for two of them look 'similar' when they are leaps and bounds is ridiculious. if they look similar, why do you say Sony only shoed CG and X2 showed in-game? that is right, because PS3 footage looks so good to be mistaken for CG, and X2 footage looks so bad, many compare it to Box. I guess that explains the Box1.5 comment.

I remember seeing GT5 and thinking it looked exactly like GT4 but with more things on-screen, how many of u will disagree with me on that?
correction; you saw 'Vision of Gran Turismo' and not GT5. what you saw was confirmed to be GT4 with higher res. in fact, it is so obviouse you can see the crew having GT4 logos all over them. that actually speaks volumes on how great GT4 looks on PS2. also, Polyphony specifically noted that this is no endication of what so ever of the graphics of the next GT. if you even thought that was GT5, you just insulted Polyphony and their millions of fans around the world.
I don'y want to see ducks in a bath-tub
lol, hilarious!
let me explain, for the uneducated that demo was about a duck swiming. why even show it? for devs, programmers and anybody that knows anything, that was the most advanced, complex and amazing demo being done by a consumer electronics product in the world. it showed advanced physics, liquid simulation, reflections/refractions, etc. that are impossible to do on the most poerful PC on the market today. what is more, is the seen where they 'played' with the cups in the tub. that was vertually impossible to even think of due to the crazy processing power required for simulating water motion going into and pouring out of the cups. the Duck demo's documentation will be the first ones out. everyone around the world can't wait to get their hands on it.
it is just hilarious when I see someone saying "ducks? what is THAT for?". that little Duck demo my friend is one of the most advanced things in real time cpmputation my friend.
And then when they showed the Resident Evil trailer, everyone thought it was from a PS3, but they happened to show the exact same trailer for the 360's summit and never actually told anyone what system it was running on... my guess? It'll look the same on both consoles, just like many other games.
that, like many others, will be a multiplatformer. those kinds of games are always done for the weakest system and ported to the rest. that is why nearly all of today's multiplatformers loo VERY close if not completely identical to each other on all current systems. multiplatforms are NEVER an indicator of a particualr system's potential. having said that, you only saw a trailer. what untill they release the full games on both systems to judge. if they look comparible, that that means that is the best they can do on X2, for the meantime. PS3 is simply directly porting it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm buying both,
that is irrelivant. what does anything have to do with what you chose or do not chose to buy? we call things as they are. we have seen the demos. if you think PS3 and X2 look alike (though you call the first CG and the latter in-game) then that is your opinion. also, many won't be basing their decisions on power alone. if that was the case, PS2 would be forgotton about. I already said a number of times that even if PS3 was the weakest system out their, the crazy amount of games alone is enough to make it the No.1 seller- just as it is the case with PS2. but now, PS3 doesn't only have the most and diverse games hands down, it has the best toolsets revealed yet, and the technology and brand recognition. it would take a miracle for PS3 to fail- and I even doubt a mircle can do that (j/k).
you can bet alot of that fat plumber fans will rush out and buy Rev as soon as it comes out no matter what it turns out to be. you can bet that some Live fans will get X2 no matter what just for that. and so on and so forth. it isn't all about power. but that isn't to pay a blind-eye to PS3s advantages in technology compared to the rest.

[Mr. Witt]

for any single person to say PS3 games so far don't look good, by that , and by default, he states that X2 games are so horrible they make you throw up. because no matter how you look at it, there is a HUGE difference in what was show for both.

Good to see you've got your head stuck on graphics. When I say I was unimpressed, I meant that there was nothing there that I really thought looked all that fun.

for the poor soles that actually believe MS is 'holding up', I am sorry to brake it for you but what you see is what you get. no company in the world will intentionally blow off the world's biggest game convention (E3) and then say the 'true' power will be seen, then blow that off again. by the time TGS hits, X2 will be in full production. that means it is set in stone. nothing will change for the next cycle.

I sincerely hope you're not referring to me, here. I obviously understand that the Xbox is pretty much done with

for those who , for some reason, think PS3 will cost +$500, you need to ease up on the crack. firstly, the very last info we'll know about PS3 is the price and it will be around a month before launch. but till then, rembmer what EVERYONE and his dog said about PSP's price tag. PSP's actuall price is LESS than HALF of the best analysits' estimate. they said it will go between $400-$500. the standard unit is about $180!

Funny, I heard $250 across the board. (Guess how much it was at launch :D)

Sony offically stated that PS3's price will be around PS2's and PSOne's at their launch. that is $299 in N America. by that, it is safe to say that PS3 WILL NOT be higher than $349 or cheaper than $299. and what I REALLY want to know is how you can innocently presume X2's price? how do you know it will have this price tag or that one?

By using a bit of logic. Let me quote myself here.

"How can they expect to sell a console with 2 $500 processors for less than $500?? If the price is anywhere *close* to being reasonable, then Sony is going to lose so much money per console they'll go bankrupt."

It's just not a wise business move for sony if they offer it too cheap.

Finally, the topic isn't price tags. the topic is the HUGE disappointment that is X2 so far. absolutely ZERO tech demos? how weak can it possibly be for not having standard tech demos?! and what's with the current gen graphics? Every Party trailer? how desperate are they for games to show that graphical garbage?

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/702/702493/img_2611799.html
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/702/702493/img_2556927.html
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747891/img_2903024.html
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747891/img_2903023.html

yeah sure, some say a couple of kiddy games MAY be useful, but not at this critical stage. these are times when you make a mindset of your system. you want people to allianate X2 with those graphics? This is at a time where some people STILL think that the awesome PS3 trailers are pure CG! some people can't even believe the 'playable' Gundam trailer, saying it is some sort of consperincy or something.

I've not seen the Gundam trailer. This is NOT to say I think it doesn't exist, but that I simply haven't seen it yet. But most the other trailers I have seen weren't in-game footage.

the only reason people bought Box is for its graphical advantage. what if it turns out to be the weakest system this gen- as it very much looks like it? launching earlier has its advantages AND disatvantages. and ONE holyday shopping season is good, but is it enough to base you're entire system on for at least the next five years?

I bought my box for the games. If I had bought it for the graphics (and had price been a nonissue), I would have had one at launch. You might not have noticed, but most consoles and games sell the most when they're released. So yeah. One holiday season is a VERY good start.

what MS is praying for is ignorance. if you don't know what that means, then you are what MS wants.

What exactly am I ignorant to here?? I obviously see it's technological advantages and disadvantages.
Microsoft is buying contracts from good game developers, so this means good games (Please try and keep in mind that these games look good to ME, this is MY opinion. This is a preemptive 'shut up' for not only this comment, but where I've said the PS3 games don't look good to ME.) The new Xbox Live setup is kickass. It's not like this thing is technologically crippled, hell, it can connect with a PSP using wifi.

I'm trying to remain unbiased. I haven't written off the PS3; it's way too early for that. I just think that right now, X360 is the best choice.

[Skidz]

Wait.. Z, are u saying that the killzone video was not a CG sequence? Is that the word going around at the PS3 boards?? Even though IGN interviewd the developers and asked them that question specifically and they couldn't give a straight answer?? If there was any progress on the development, they'd have shown some more footage at the PS meeting, which they didn't.

And the graphics ARE comparable, when looked at in an unbiased view. Look at Lair, I saw hundreds of detailed dragons, but barely anything else. It was all set against the night sky. Ok, so they can do dragons, but then look at a game like Elder Scrolls 4, I see more detail in the forest scenes than i do on the dragons, but that might just be me...

I'm almost certain that both consoles will have similar graphics, and nothing I've seen yet has proved it otherwise. The only difference (besides the price) is that one will come out 6 months earlier than the other. Sure both companies took different routes (one made new technology, the other used existing technology), but it looks like they all ended up at the same destination.

PS: And the bath-tub tech demo is pretty unimpressive... everything around the bath-tub is just an image, and the ducks don't even have shadows...

[Gounmckuber]

unimpressive skids? everything around the tub just an image? What do you mean by "just an image" ? This was a fully 3d environment. What was so unimpressive? Do you know what was calculated in that demo? This demo also seemed to be more of a physics and interaction demo than a graphics showcase

[Skidz]

I meant "just an image" like the backgrounds in old RE games. Nothing moved, and everyting had a shadow except for the things that were moving (the ducks...). But like u said, it wasn't trying to show the graphics, so they didn't really care how good it looked.

But the thing I like was how the ships had real damage... I think that new pirates game on xbox does the same thing.

[Gounmckuber]

Yeah the cloth damage was nice. The thing that amazed me the most was the simulation of the water when Richard marx picked up the cups and started pouring and throwing the water everywhere. The pirates game for x box has cloth damage but its only a canned animation while in this demo the cloth was damaged and torn by real time physics calculations. This allows games to have an endless way of doing or destroying something. True Physics are the future :rockon::bigpimp: I beleive the camera was rotated during the demonstration therefore proving it was 3d and not a static background like the old Resident Evil games

[Gounmckuber]

All those demos were either in game assets mixed with a dash of cg to show you how the devs think the final product will look or running off dev kits with their frame rates speed up to approximate the final look of the game. It was stated in psm that Killzone was actually running at 5fps on an extremely early dev kit (I think it was the Shrek :drunk: kit) So we will have to wait a while before Killzone is seen again cause final kits dont ship till december

[Z]

lol. okay to clear all the Duckie ideas: this wasn't a 'graphical' demonstartion. that was the Alfred head for. the duck demo is for pure computational power; real-time advanced and sophisticated calculations. now that I mentioned it, Phil said the Head demo was also more CPU than GPU focused, the crazy lighting, the subsurface scattering, and many many more. so there you have it, no 'pretty duckling' there. lol

To Dabt al-Ardt: I understand your point and you do have an opinion and I hope you will be gratified by the system you chose. I just used some of the points you gave for a general reply. as I said, all next gen system will be great. the best part is that all will have pros and cons.

about 'can Killzone be real' question, I have answered this time and time again. if you want to me to give you d detailed answer to end all questions (pritty good answer that will be huh?) please post this question in the Killzone PS3 thread so that when anyone else asks (and I am sure someone will) we can direct him to that thread. cheers!

[Skidz]

about 'can Killzone be real' question, I have answered this time and time again. if you want to me to give you d detailed answer to end all questions (pritty good answer that will be huh?) please post this question in the Killzone PS3 thread so that when anyone else asks (and I am sure someone will) we can direct him to that thread. cheers!

No, u misunderstood me. I'm not asking a "can it be real" question, I'm telling u that IGN interviewed the developer after E3, and even when he was asked a simple "yes or no" question, he was fumbling for answers.

I'm sure that Killzone will look good, ater all it is a next-gen title, I'm just saying don't bet on graphics like the ones u saw in that CG sequence.

[Z]

ah, so you do doubt Killzone is achievsble? you know different trailers have different methods in how they were run. the important qusetion isn't where each one was running on, the important question is can PS3 play the exact same level of details that was shown for everygame?
since this is off topic, bring any Killzone discussion in its thread so we can get more out of it.

Back on topic:
X2 is only 4 months away. I don't care about devkit details, ease of develoment details, tech spec, etc. I only care about how the games will be like. so far, I have seen two kinds: next-gen content and current gen content.
the second point about X2's shows so far is the games announced. nearly all games announced are multiplatforms. heck, DW is a current gen port! like Box, nearly all of X2's games are PC ports as well. I want original content that defines X2. I want to 'see' next gen content that will convince me this system is worthy of the name 'next-gen'. I want games to 'look' better than anything seen (like PS3's). I don't want another Box or a stripped down gaming PC. I want a nest gen system.

[D3ad D1plomacy]

Funny how Sony fans used to say, "It's all about the games" since Xbox was more powerful than the PS2. Now PS2 fans are going crazy about the graphics of the PS3 and are flaming the Xbox 360... is the word "contradiction" to be used here or what?

[Junox50]

Funny how Sony fans used to say, "It's all about the games" since Xbox was more powerful than the PS2. Now PS2 fans are going crazy about the graphics of the PS3 and are flaming the Xbox 360... is the word "contradiction" to be used here or what?

The same contradiction can be said for Microsoft/Xbox fanboys and their claim at first of it being about graphics. With the 360 coming, now the saying is "graphics don't matter."

So, it's not just one side of the fence that's being hypocrital.

[Z]

saying that is dumb because fanboyz are dumb because they 'blind' themselves with one ideology then make up everything else to convince themselves they are right, more than often by lying to their oun selves. but what happens when a company sais that? MS was all bragging about power this current gen. then they kept bragging about X2's power up until the hilarious MTV show. from E3, when PS3 talked about some of PS3's spec, I never heared another X2 spec EVER from MS. even in their E3 show, they gave absolutely no numbers, specs, demos or anything. I think the only nomber was the GPU's 500Mhz. but I am not sure of even that.

another thing, only an idiot will say games aren't important.

finally, I was veeeeery interested in seeing Halo 3 just to compare it visually to Killzone PS3. X2 is launching only 12 from now. if they aren't showing anything 'next-gen' that means what you see is waht you get.

[Skidz]

*in response to Z stating that 360 doesn't have any impressive exclusives*

Gears of War, PGR3, Ghost Recon 3, Dead or Alive 4, Elder Scrolls 4, Perfect Dark Zero, Ninety-Nine Nights, Quake 4, Test Drive Unlimited.

All titles exclusive to 360, or only for PC and 360 that interest me. And this only includes the titles that I have seen in-game footage of, nevermind the titles that I KNOW are comming out but haven't been announced/shown. There might be other titles shown that I haven't included, but thats because these are the ones I know I'll be getting.

You could say that a title made for PC won't be "next gen", but keep in mind that PCs have always been one step ahead of consoles, hence the $500 graphics cards on the market today.

[D3ad D1plomacy]

First off, i'm not a fanboy and second, power was mentioned alot in the Xbox era because it's made by errr... Microsoft... PC... OS... ring a tone? So of course power HAD to be mentioned at the time. Sony fanboys kept talking about how it didn't matter since it was pretty much a PC and so on... well, PS3 will be more powerful than the Xbox 360, so what was the argument that whole time about really? Besides, the point here is that MS's goal is greater than beating the PS3 or Revolution, infact we all know that MS will never beat Sony in sales probably EVER, but their biggest goal here is to sell in Japan. But good graphics or not, you already know that better specs doesn't mean better sell.

[Junox50]

First off, i'm not a fanboy and second, power was mentioned alot in the Xbox era because it's made by errr... Microsoft... PC... OS... ring a tone? So of course power HAD to be mentioned at the time. Sony fanboys kept talking about how it didn't matter since it was pretty much a PC and so on... well, PS3 will be more powerful than the Xbox 360, so what was the argument that whole time about really? Besides, the point here is that MS's goal is greater than beating the PS3 or Revolution, infact we all know that MS will never beat Sony in sales probably EVER, but their biggest goal here is to sell in Japan. But good graphics or not, you already know that better specs doesn't mean better sell.

Nobody called you a fanboy unless you were in someway reffering to Z's post.

What's Ironic is how Power was the big thing with Microsoft in the beginning with the first Xbox. Now they go from that to "Power doesent matter." You were talking about condradiction from Sony/Playstation fanboys and its already been known that condradiction not only comes from those fanboys but Microsoft/Xbox fanboys as well, any kind of fanboy actually.

[D3ad D1plomacy]

You were talking about condradiction from Sony/Playstation fanboys and its already been known that condradiction not only comes from those fanboys but Microsoft/Xbox fanboys as well, any kind of fanboy actually.

Yeah, I 100% agree.

[Junox50]

Yeah, I 100% agree.

Good. Glad to see we both can agree on something. :cheers:

[Z]

fanboys kept talking about...
fanboys said...
etc.
who gives a damn about stupid fanboys and their pathetic comments?! I don't care what they say or do. for me, these are the black stain of the industry. those who give us a bad name.
now to point out, power is ALWAYS impotant. Sony never EVER said otherwise. even after Cube or Box came out, the still said power IS important. even at the E3 press conference, when PS2 was mentioned they said something like "it is a powerful system that gave new oportunitiies". PS2 is technically the weakest, yet still Sony is braging about its technology. MS on the other hand was ALWAYS talking about how power is important. okay, so far so good. then they give the same talk about X2; power IS important. again, so far so good. up until a couple of days before E3 we were still hearing about how power is important. then Sony drops da bomb that is PS3 in the show and blows everyone and everything away- including ALL expectations. immediately after, we say MANY MS officals trying to give excuses of how X2 is STILL more powerful than PS3 with laughable analysis and spec comparing. then very soon after, we never hear about X2 tech specs or the word 'power' anymore. in fact, quite the opposite; X2 has absolutely ZERO tech demos- which maybe the first for any next gen hardware, and the is ZERO talk about its power. the officals themselves- even J Allard himsel- are nowsaying "power ISN'T important". I am not talking about stupid fanboys' comments that even need basic grammar corrections. I am talking about officals making statements tht have changed their stance after PS3 was unvieled.
in response to Z stating that 360 doesn't have any impressive exclusives
I never said X2 doesn't have any impressive games. I already mentioned that PGR3 maybe the only good thing showing (and RR car models look similar if not better). some may say GoW, but I am still comparing it to PC games like Prey and Quake 4. if it looks better, then you can add it to that one making the nomber of impressive games only 2.
Gears of War, PGR3, Ghost Recon 3, Dead or Alive 4, Elder Scrolls 4, Perfect Dark Zero, Ninety-Nine Nights, Quake 4, Test Drive Unlimited.

All titles exclusive to 360, or only for PC
you said it yourself "or only for PC". that is the problem. two things here: they aren't exclusives if nearly all of them are coming to PC. maybe MS doesn't know the meaning of exclusive, but that means it doesn't come on anything else. another thing is these are all current gen PC games. having PC ports is good an all, but I want them bumped up a bit. why make direct ports of current gen games? that doesn't just include PC games, but even current gen games like DW5, or worst, the two year old PS2/PC game that is directly ported to X2, FF11. why not just offer it on Box and, by default, it will be playable on X2. oh goddy, I was waiting 2 freakin years to finally play this old game on my next-gen console...

Dead or Alive 4, Perfect Dark Zero,Test Drive Unlimited
that is what I am talking about, those games look absolutely horrible. DoA looks exactly like the box version and PDZ looks worse than a PS2 game. many forums made specific threads to make fun of PDZ. the 'Wall Man' hilarious 'phinomina' anyone?
and Test Drive? have you seen the E3 trailer? hell if it didn't look like a PS2 game. that was one of the worst demos ever. the trees on the side may even me worse than PS2 quality.
You could say that a title made for PC won't be "next gen"
again, you are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say PC games aren't next gen. I am saying 'current' PC games aren't next gen. PC may have the bitter-sweet advantage of continuas imporvements, but 'next-gen' is a term given for teh next big leap, not a new game with little improvement. also, it is known that next-gen consoles will exceed the top of the line PC for at least a year. when it does catch up, that setup will be so expensive that the majority will still not be able to afford it. so how long till we see the average PC gamers playing with the same/better quality than the average console gamer? you think people will rush to buy a $1000 SLI GPU configuration? notice that is for the GPU alone with out anything else.


now; I want to make my self clear here. I am simply asking why in the world we aren't seeing 'next-gen' content when X2 is only 12 weeks from world simultaneous launch? you think you can win world exceptance, let alone Japanes, with such poor performance? 'next-gen' doesn't mean excisting ports. it doesn't mean only 2 or 3 good looking titles and the rest look like past gen trash. this isn't a Box1.5. this isn't a 'tweaked' version. this is 'next-freakin'-gen'. if you aren't blown away, if you expectations aren't laughed at, it isn't worthy of being called 'next-gen'. this isn't the next leap forward. this is the next step forward.
now compare all that is shown for X2 to the unbelievable PS3 showing. forst off, the footage is soo good, people are wondering if it is CG. the second thing you notice, ALL titles shown (except RE5, and persumably FN3) are exclusives. and yes, that means only on PS3. let me clear that more; no PC ports or current gen rehashes or multiplatforms.
X2 divket have been out and monthly updated for more than 2 years. PS3 devkits have only been out for 8 weeks befor E3. the difference in the demos are staggering and honestly rais many doubts about X2's performance so far, where is the 'easy to develop for' comments? where is this 'XNA' they keep mentioning? where is this 'listening to waht devs want' results? the performance is so bad that Epic refused to give an UE3.0 demo on them. the perfomance is so bad they refuse to give any tech demos. the performance is so bad no ATI rep attended the X2 conference. the performance is so bad fanbot sites are speachless. the performance is so bad no comparisons to PS3 were given anymore once the facts were out. hwere are all that snobby demos of Box braking PS2? were are all the funny remarks now? were are all the numbers?

now I know way Sony drove people to X2's conference themselves. the irony...

I am a gamer and a techy. as a techy, I always buy the most pwerful system out no matter what. as a gamer, I always buy the system with the most games out there. if X2, and even Rev, didn't offer me any of those, what reason is left to buy them?

although with very low expectations, I will be following X2's TGS. they may perhaps have another show prior to launch. if they don't convice me and millions like me around the world, they will have nothing to offer.

[Skidz]

Ok, I agree with your PC-port comments, but that doesn't hurt MS considering those games will run on PCs (and not on the competetion; PS3). And I also agree on your FF11 comment, I'll be skipping that title due to its late emergence on Microsoft's console, but can u really blame MS for that? Seems like it was Square's decision and MS only said "sure".

And are most of the titles comming to PS3? I know the three main exclusive titles I'll be buying right away are GoW, PGR3, and GR3, but are the mistwalker titles comming to PS3?

I must be excited about the titles because I've played their predecessors (PGR1/2, GR1/2), but which titles are u excited about for PS3? I mean, I know Lair looked good, but are u really looking forward to playing with some dragons?

Oh, and just because a title doesn't look "next-gen" doesn't make it MS's fault. I think the blame goes to the developers. I mean, look at GoW, PGR3 and GR3. Those levels of graphics are possible on 360, its just some devs are finding it harder than others; give them time.

[Z]

GR3; can you tell me what's that short for? I can't seem to figure it out.

Ok, I agree with your PC-port comments, but that doesn't hurt MS considering those games will run on PCs (and not on the competetion; PS3)
it isn't yet decided which will be coming to PS3 and which won't. about X2 having PC games; as I said, that is a good thing. the more the marrier, and they are pritty good games with high expectations. I can't stand PC gaming, so I tent to buy the very few interesting titles that I like if they came to Box. I got Doom 3 for PC purely for the graphics. I couldn't play. PC controls were just too confusing. as soon as it came for Box I got it. Half-Life 2 is the same story. but what I am talking about is where are THE next-gen titles? these PC ports go with FF11 and other current gen ports. okay, now show me du creme ala creme (spelling, I know). compared to PS3 footage, it is like looking at Box, or a beefed up version of the thing. I don't need to buy a next-gen console to play these PC games. it would be cheaper to simply buy the game on PC right away. (as for me, it is like I said, I can't play PC. but this doesn't just include me).
are the mistwalker titles comming to PS3?
the MistWalker titles (Blue Dragon and Lost Oddyssy) may not come to PS3- the exclusivity deal my be time-based. but what about the other MisWalker projects? they are an independant company. they can make games for anyone. they already expressed interest for doing something on DS. MW will be making games for all next gen system and current gen as well. these just happen to be their first two projects.
but which titles are u excited about for PS3? I mean, I know Lair looked good, but are u really looking forward to playing with some dragons?
I thought you said you were looking forward to playing Blue Dragon?
about which titles am I, and millions around the world, are excited about, are you being sarcastic? you are joking right?
Oh, and just because a title doesn't look "next-gen" doesn't make it MS's fault of course it MS's fault. they have devkits for more than two years, they have been 'listening' to devs, they have XNA, they have PC compatibility (in away), they have the 'easiest' system to work on, they have 'the most powerful next-gen system' they have a 'better' archetecture, so why is it when you put all that together in the end of the day, you show me current gen graphics? (PS, all the words between commas are MS's words not mine).
to make it more clear, isn't it thanks to Sony that in two months devs could make those unbelievable demos? and another couple of months we get a playable demo (Gundam)?