The Snape Thread (spoiler tags not included)

[Dark_Cloud]

Well, if any of you jerk asses that havent read Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, or any other Harry Potter book for that matter dont want anything given away, then dont read this thread. I dont want people to use spoiler tags because it should be unnecessary after this warning:










THIS THREAD MAY SPOIL EVERYTHING FOR YOU!























Ok, with that out of the way, I would like to open up any discussion on teacher known as Severus Snape. Is he working for Dumbledore, is he working for Voldemeort, or is he just working towards his own gains? I'm really curious about how J.K. Rowling will end this series, and how snape fits into it. Here is my opinion on the matter, and I invite anyone and everyone to give me their input too.

It seems too obvious at the end of the 6th book that snape is a Death Eater. Seriously, he killed Dumbledore right in front of Harry. However, some things have led me to believe that he is not the bad guy as he has been made out to be. In fact, he may be, if this actually makes sense, a "triple agent". I'll explain.

Why is it throughout the series, Snape has saved Harry's life on so many occasions? It is true that Voldemort wanted Harry alive, but when someone else was going to kill him, why shouldn't Snape just sit back and watch? He apparently hates the whole Potter family. Why not just let it end? He won't be blamed if he has nothing to do with Potters death. He would emerge blameless in the eyes of Voldemort and therefore have no reason to save Harry's life. I think Rowling is much to clever to have weird coincidences like that in her book.

My second reason for thinking this comes mainly from the sixth book. When Dumbledore is about to get disarmed by Malfoy, his last spell was to paralyze Harry. Why would he do this? Harry would have obviously kicked the crap out of Malfoy in a duel. Also, Harry is too good to do any of the Unforgivable Curses, so Draco would probably still have lived. After defeating malfoy and stunning him or whatever, Harry would have plenty of time to get dumbledore to safety. He chatted with Draco for a good long while before any of the Death Eaters showed up. At the least, Harry would be able to retrieve Dumbledores wand. If he is strong enough to ride a broom, he is probably strong enough to defeat a few Death Eaters, or at least hold them off until help arrived.

So why stun Harry? He had his invisibility cloak on. He could sneak up behind Draco and stun him or something, then hide in a corner and wait while the Death Eaters are distracted with dumbledore and then sneak up behind them and curse or jinx them or whatever he does. There are far too many situations where Dumbledore could have come out alive. This leads me to the conclusion that Dumbledore wanted or knew Snape would have to kill him. When he saw Snape running at them, he "pleaded" with him to help, yet Snape just killed him. Well, I think Dumbledore was actually pleading with Snape to kill him. It would be hard to kill your mentor. Dumbledore needed to make sure Snape was willing to finish the job.

This is all probably wrong though. It's just what I hope will be, since I like Snape so much. He is freakin powerful. In a fight, I would totally rather be with him than against him. I think the fact may be that Dumbledore knows Snape is somehow involved with the Prophesy. In fact, he was the one who brought it to Voldemorts attention, and therefore created Harry Potter, the one man who could bring Voldemort down. I think if Snape is really a Death Eater, Dumbledore knew it all along. However, he also knew Snape needed to be alive to have the Prophesy fufilled. In fact, the Half-Blood Prince's book saved the life of all of Harry's friend by winning he the luck potion.

Well, that's about it for now. I'll write more later if other people post in this thread. Otherwise it will be a waste of my time to put anymore down.

[Hisham]

I have been thinking something like this for a while now, because, why would Dumbledore be so relentless to trust Snape... especially since he's been invovled so much with Voldemort, he hates Harry's whole family and shit like that... Dumbledore wouldn't be dumb to trust snape just because he said he was sorry. There has to be something deeper...

[Greg]

I've actually been thinking along those same lines too. I mean maybe snape killed dumbledore simply because he had to to save himself, he did make an unbreakable bond with malfoy's mother and was therefore forced to kill dumbledore but how do you know he even knew what it was for? I know he said he knew but he could have been bluffing. It could have been he had no idea that malfoy was supposed to kill dumbledore and only did it when he found out because of that. Oh and yeah I would think dumbledore would have a better reason to trust snape then just because he was sorry that the potters were killed by voldemort because of the information he gave him.

[OutlawAdidas]

OMFG, SNAPE KILLED DUMBLEDORE! OH NOEZ

[Hisham]

^Outlaw, stop fucking around in this thread. This idiot needs to be banned, or just step out of threads with intelectual discussion...

And about him not knowing what the unbreakable vow was, I don't doubt that, but it doesn't really seem like that... Who knows tho, Voldemort does seem to trust Snape the most out of all his servants...

[OutlawAdidas]

^Actually, I was alerted to the fact that Snape killed Dumbledore days ago. I was very shocked, but not anymore

[Metal Sphere]

Why does Voldemort trust Snape more than any of the other Death Eaters? It's brought up repeatedly that Voldemort never had friends and his followers are merely servants to him (and Dumbledore, in their foray into the pensieve where they saw Slughorn and the other boys, explains the reasons why people follow him). Maybe it's because it was Snape, who having overheard the prophecy and risked being caught by Dumbledore at the door, served him so well. Or at least made him aware of a prediction relating to him, and his death.

When Harry and Dumbledore were in the cave with the inferius-infested lake, Dumbledore comments that Voldemort, while he denies it, is afraid of both bodies and death. Not to mention the entire splitting of his soul to guarantee his "immortality", you can tell this guy's seriously afraid of dying. News of a potential threat to his life must've been priceless to someone so obsessed with living, and it must've put Snape in a class all his own in Voldemort's eyes.

Crap, I've rambled. There's definitely going to be a war of words between Harry and Voldemort, given the similarities in their situations and feelings (something that Harry himself is unnerved by).

[Sandman]

I was thinking along the same lines. I think Snape is an awesome character and as much of a dick as he is, I always trusted that he was a good guy. ARG! 7th book needs to come out.

[goku2057]

Yeah, now all we have to do is wait another two years for teh final book. Ghey.

Also, as 90% of my feelings on teh matter were stated in teh first 3 posts, here's another tidbit of information.

RAB is Black, and he hid the Locket HoroCrux in teh Blacks home. Harry and co. found it whilst they were rooting through a chest of stuff.

[Dark_Cloud]

Ooh shit, that makes a lot of sense, with Harry inheriting the house and all, it will be right under his nose. Good stuff. Although I would like to get my hands on a list of Black family members and see if any of their initialy match.

Anyway, just to restate my earlier point, J.K. made a huge effort to make people think Snape was a death eater. But as I have seen from all of the other books, everytime she does that she is usualy just trying trick us. The third book is a perfect example of how she really makes someone out to be an asshole then it turns out that it's all just a huge misunderstanding or framing or whatever.

[goku2057]

Well, that's exactly what I thought. Dumbledore knew something about Snape that caused him to trust so much. There had to be something more than Snape felt bad about it.

Anywho, the wait is on at two years...We have LOTS of time to ponder stuff.

[GeekyGmrChic]

RAB is sirius' brother, I forgot his name, but it started with an r. Also, I agree. Sanpe can be a dick, but he has been made into a trusted character. I loved him a lot. Dumbledoe, isn't an idiot. There must be some reason, some real concrete reason other than being sorry that he trusted Snape.

I've been thinking about Dunbledore being killed. What if this is all a conspriacy. You know, Snape and Dumbldore, did this so Voldemort believes Dumbledore is dead, but he isn't really. Maybe I'm too much of a gen-xer where everything is a conspriacy. But Dumbledore seems too important to have been killed off at least before the end of the series.

Or maybe, he really was killed but it's part of Dumbledore's master plan. You know get Snape totally trusted by Voldemort again. I don't know, but the ending did bother me. 2 great characters went down the drain for no apparent reason. I can't wait to see what happens in the last book.

[goku2057]

I think he really is dead, because it shows just how alone Harry is now. Think about it, since the beginning of the series, Harry as sought after a father figure, and Dumbledore has filled that role for a while now. Offing him shows how much Harry has had to mature over teh books, because he now realizes he has to go at this alone. Ron and Hermione can offer help, but in the end it's all Harry.

Also, Snape played a big role in Harry's maturity level. He gave Harry the tough love that he so desperately needed, because it got him ready for his bouts with Voldemort. Think about it, Harry has faced "Voldy" on what, 5 occasions? He's survived everyone of them, because he's known what to do in the prediciment that he faced. Knowingly or not, Snape readied Harry for teh tasks that lie ahead of him.

Meh...I ramble.

[Greg]

Actually the locket may not be in the blacks house any more remember that one guy mundungus or whatever his name is stole a bunch of stuff from the house and sold it when sirius deid so he could have taken the locket too. I would think there was more of a reason for that then just for harry to get all mad about it.

[Dark_Cloud]

Haha, that would be so fucked up if Mundungus stole a horocrux or whatever and didnt even know it. Id like to see the look on Voldomorts face when he is casualy buying or receiveing dark arts stuff and he found his own horocrux that he hid so well with all these magical precations and stuff. That would be funny as hell.

I also thought that maybe Dumbledore wasn't really dead. I mean, it's too perfect to have 4 death eaters and a kid have the chance to kill Dumbledore, but it ends up that Snape does it without even thinking twice. But, I doubt Dumbledore is really alive. I agree that maybe Dumbledore planned on his own death and that is a crutial part of his plan. Without anyone to protect him, Harry really needs to buck up and learn some shit if he hopes to defeat the Dark Lord. But, I highly doubt he will win in a duel or something. He will probably find a cheap way to kill voldomort in the end. I mean, obviousy Harry cant even begin to match the power V. has accumulated over the decades, no mattere how much a of a talented wizard he may be.

I think what may happen, and this is a totaly guess and is probably 100% wrong, but I think Harry will rush of to get into a duel with voldomort and totaly get his ass kicked in like 5 seconds. Then, when voldomort is about to kill him, the man he now trusts 100% after killing dumbledore will jump in on harry's behalf and help kill voldomort. At the end, Snape will give harry a letter or like one of those talking picture things where dumbledore explains the whole story of why he trusted snape so much, why he needed snape to kill him to gain Voldomorts trust, the true meaning of the Prophesy, and the meanings of every little thing everyone forgot they wondered about.

So in essense, Snape is not bad at all. I beleive this 100%. I just think he needs to put on an act the whole time, although I'm sure he doesn't like the Potter family very much anyway so it isn't too much to ask. And if I am wrong and Snape is actualy bad, like someone already said, he pretty much shaped harry potters character, saved his life and the lives of his friends on countless occasions, and motivated harry to strive to do better and not turn into the "star" that talks big but cant really do shit. Anyone remember that Lockheart guy from the second book? That's what harry would be like if no one was there to check his fame at bring him back down to earth.

[Sandman]

All of these ideas are similar to what I was thinking.

Snape saved Harry so many times and the main one I think about is in the first book during the Quidditch match. And there really had to be a reason Dumbledore trusted Snape so much, especially after he was a Death Eater.

Also at the end when Harry was trying to attack Snape, he didn't fight back and injure Harry or try to capture him or anything of the sort (except for deflecting the curses back at Harry), even when he had a perfect opportunity. Instead, he gave Harry advice that he should learn how to use spells without speaking the words.

[goku2057]

Although, we could all be 100% wrong about Snape as well. One of Dumbledores main faults is that he is very trustworthy...He even says himself that he doesn't mess up very often, but when he does...

[Hisham]

^Yeah that's true, Dumbledore is too trusting, but that is a usual trait in the "good guys" lol... And what Kevin said does make sense, why would have snape just deflected the blasts that Harry was shooting at him... Couldn't he just have taken care of Harry right then and there. Unless for a crazy reason Vodemort wants him alive... Anyways there is no doubt to me RAB is Blacks brother, makes too much sense... With the locket in Blacks house and all...

And shouldn't the last book come out in less time than this book took to come out? Cause JK Rowling said she's done the book, she just needs to make changes... Or do I have faulty information?

[Sandman]

Gosh I'm already starting to get anxious. This sucks :(.

[goku2057]

No, she has teh outline for the book done,, she just, you know, has to write it. And she siad that she isn't starting it til next year. Sucks to be us.

[Hisham]

GAH!!!

I'm so anxious!!!

But I'm guessing the 4th movie will sorta make the wait easier...

[Greg]

not for me I hate the movies and can't stand to watch them.

[Sephiroth_VII]

1. RAB, is Regulus Black. Sirius' kid brother(if you theories are true)

From book 5, page 104:
Sirius stabbed a finger at the very bottom of the tree, at the name 'Regulus Black'.
A date of death (some fifteen years previously) followed the date of birth.
'He was younger than me,' said Sirius. 'and a much better son, as i was constantly reminded.'
'But he died,' said Harry.
'Yeah,' said Sirius. 'Stupid idiot ... he joined the Death Eaters.'
'You're kidding!'
'Come on harry, haven't you seen enough of this house to tell what kind of wizards my familly were?' said Sirius testily.
'Were - were your parents Death Eaters as well?'
'No, no, but believe me, they thought Voldemort had the right idea, they were all for the purification of the wizarding race, getting rid of muggle-borns and having pure-bloods in charge.
They weren't alone, either, there were quite afew people, before Voldemort shoved his true colours, who thought he had the right idea about things ... they got cold feet when they saw what he was prepared to do to get power, though.
But i bet my parents thought Regulus was a right little hero for joining up at first.'
'Was he killed by an Auror?' Harry asked tentavetively.
'Oh, no,' said Sirius. 'No, ,he was murdered by Voldemort. Or on Voldemort's orders, more likely; I doubt Regulus was ever impotant enough to get killed by Voldemort in person. From what i found out after he died, he got in so far, then panicked about what he was being asked to do and tried to back out...

2. Mention of the locket.

From book 5, page 108, line 21:
a heavy locket none of them could open...

3. Now, in book 6, when Harry and Dumbledore goes to the memorie where Tom first lays eyes on the locket, he notes that it's 'a heavy brass locket', this fits very well with the locket at the Black's.

[Dark_Cloud]

Damn, sounds really convincing. Can't beleive you found all that stuff though.

[Galcian]

I was discussing this with my friend.

We came up with that Snape made an Unbreakable Vow to dumbledore to protect harry potter. That is why he trusted him so much.

[downtime19]

so maybe he made 2 UV's: one to protect Malfoy and one to protect Potter. Fuck it, I'll wait, I need a game to get my mind off it.

[Dark_Cloud]

Damn, snape is such an Unbreakable Vow whore.

[downtime19]

Damn, snape is such an Unbreakable Vow whore.
indeed. Im starting to expect Snape had sexual relations with Harry in his second year.

[goku2057]

Damn, Galcian, that's a great thought.

[Stay Vertical]

She has already wrote the ending for the 7th book. I thought the 6th was way better than the 5th (the 5th being crap) it had more comedy this time or somthing....
Oh yeah Whatever happened to Cho? she just kinda faded away. AND AND AND we didnt see her in the movie which pissed me off alot. I think snape was deffo working for voldemort. But then again i have no idea, the whole 7th book could turn out to be some sort of soap opera and snape is actually harrys real dad. oh dear oh dear. I hate waiting so long that you have to go back and read all the books again, damn that was annoying

[downtime19]

dude, she was a shallow bitch looking for penis. That would be messed up beyond words if Snape was his dad. I hated the 5th, Harry was a selfish little bastard.

[Stay Vertical]

He was indeed. People thought malfoy was hot in the movie...but...hes just not. And Ron could do one expression *horrifed* and seemed to be saying "bloodly" wayyy too much.

[downtime19]

If I hear wicked one more time...

[Mirai]

On the discussion of one Regulus Black, let us not forget that at the end of book six, Hermione said something along the lines of it sounded like this person knew Voldemort. This seems like Rowling hinting subtly.

[Milly]

With topic of the whole Regulus Black it was asked to JK in an interview. and she said that Regulus black is a very good guess, so there we go. But in referance to the movie thing before the movies are so crap, im not going to be Rushing out to see the fourth one, especially if its directed by Alfonso again, but we get a new director for the 5th movie so thats okay, i think... but did anyone else find the Talking heads Creepy??

[Mirai]

The talking heads are worthy of mention, but no, not Inferi, they're fine...

[Milly]

Im talking about in the Movies Mirai, yes the Idea of inferi is creepy. but on another topic is anyone else wondering how Harry is gonna manage to get all the horcruxes? I mean it looked like it took dumbledor a fair bit of skilled majic to get to the necklace, and all the while he didnt tell harry how to find any of the others, so how is harry gonna kill Voldemort properly, JK has really left alot of loose ends to tie up in just one book, but schme` im sure that we will find out in about 2 years (gah thats depressing)

[DankHero]

sorry for double post, please delete this

[DankHero]

Im talking about in the Movies Mirai, yes the Idea of inferi is creepy. but on another topic is anyone else wondering how Harry is gonna manage to get all the horcruxes? I mean it looked like it took dumbledor a fair bit of skilled majic to get to the necklace, and all the while he didnt tell harry how to find any of the others, so how is harry gonna kill Voldemort properly, JK has really left alot of loose ends to tie up in just one book, but schme` im sure that we will find out in about 2 years (gah thats depressing)
Another thing she left out, the werewolf at the end of six... gah cant remember his name, fuck my memory, well i think harry stuns him while chasing snape, and then nothing is said about him. did someone pick up a hint, or did she just forget.

I think ron and hermoine will play a big role in the next book, because one, harry doesnt have enough patience or a cool enough head to find the horcruxes. (please forgive my bad spelling) 2. Someone important is dying next book, im not sure if JK is ballsy enough to kill off harry but it will be him, ron, or hermoine. either way someone we all like will get killed.

I think malfoy will play an important role, i mean when he couldn't kill dumbledore he showed he has a heart, which mr. voldermort might actually take as no spine, but i think he will do something. or i could be wrong and he could still be an ass wipe.

please forgive me for my bad spelling, i tried to run through it and check but im tired.

[Milly]

Yeah, JK is obsessed with killing off characters that we like, Book 5, Sirius Died (he was my favorite character!) Book 6 Dumbledore!! i really wouldnt be suprised if she killed of Harry, at the rate she is going!

[bikerboy]

"My second reason for thinking this comes mainly from the sixth book. When Dumbledore is about to get disarmed by Malfoy, his last spell was to paralyze Harry. Why would he do this? Harry would have obviously kicked the crap out of Malfoy in a duel. Also, Harry is too good to do any of the Unforgivable Curses, so Draco would probably still have lived. After defeating malfoy and stunning him or whatever, Harry would have plenty of time to get dumbledore to safety. He chatted with Draco for a good long while before any of the Death Eaters showed up. At the least, Harry would be able to retrieve Dumbledores wand. If he is strong enough to ride a broom, he is probably strong enough to defeat a few Death Eaters, or at least hold them off until help arrived. "

Just a quick thing: Harry already did one of the Unforgiveable curses where he actually hit the person and another time when he missed. In Order of the Phoenix, after Sirius dies he uses Crucio on Bellatrix Lestrange and hits her with it but he's not very good at it. After Snape kills Dumbledore, Harry tries to hit him with it but misses, so he would use it.

Some things I think will happen: Malfoy will become good and betray his father who it seems like he doesn't respect anymore.

Snape is a good guy. The Unbreakable Vow meant that he could no way interfere/hinder with Malfoy getting his task done and that he needed to protect Malfoy. Snape not killing Dumbledore would've been a hindrance and would've been a breach of the Vow. And Galcian's probably right, he probably did have a vow with Dumbledore about never exposing his true identity to anyone and I have a feeling that whoever that bitch was at teh beginning of the book who watched them do the vow was actually present at that vow and was herself also forced to make one with Dumbledore.


Now I have a question:

What the hell happened to Dumbledore's hand? I have a feeling he was dying from it anyway.


EDIT: For some interesting reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horcrux

then click

RAB

[Greg]

What the hell happened to Dumbledore's hand? I have a feeling he was dying from it anyway.

That was a curse put on the first horcrux Dumbledore got slytherins ring I think it was. When Dumbledore touched the ring it did that. Its explained in the book some place.

[DankHero]

Yeah, JK is obsessed with killing off characters that we like, Book 5, Sirius Died (he was my favorite character!) Book 6 Dumbledore!! i really wouldnt be suprised if she killed of Harry, at the rate she is going!
i wouldn't be suprised either, but i would be pissed but not surprised.

[Stay Vertical]

It would all just be a big waste if harry died. How many years has she been writeing those books, and then she goes and kills the main charchter (sp). Ii would be dead stupid

[Dark_Cloud]

Meh, I wouldnt care if Harry died. I never realy liked him much anyway. I never really liked hagrid either. as long as Ron and Hermione get together in the end I will be happy. JK has been leading up to it for so long, I wish it would just be done with.

[DankHero]

i like hagrid even though he is sorta dumb. harry annoys the shit out of me, but like Dark Cloud said ron and hermoine better get together and neither of them die. i also like lupin and tonks so they better stay around.

[Solstice]

I wonder if there will be a sequel most likely :/

[DankHero]

what? a sequel to the next book?

[Sandman]

I wish Harry wasn't just a normal kid, and he was an amazing wizard. But more often than not, he sucks ass. By the way, when I was reading the first book like 6 years ago, I heard a rumor that Harry was supposed to die in the 7th book. And that's when everyone wasn't so tight-lipped about everything because it wasn't super popular yet.

[Phatty]

It doesn't matter if she does kill off harry at the end of book 7,because thats it, no more books! its going 2 b down 2 him and voldermort.so yeah who knows! but also ron and hermione shud definitly get 2gether lol

[downtime19]

I think they both die. Ron and Hermione get married and Hagrid dies as well. Lol. No that definitely wont happen.

[Stay Vertical]

Yeah somthing happens and the prophesy(sp) and it goes fucked up I heard. I think the 3rd movie realised that ron and hermione get together..there were deffinatly some akward moments were they wanted to fuck.

btw downtime were da fuck have you been?

[downtime19]

I am now back in Wyoming finally. And great news! remeber how my dad was sick and stomach problems in california? Turns out, Its fucking Pancreatic cancer! Whoopdeedamndoo! As you can tell Im kinda in a state of denial.