Guilty Pleasure Songs

[PeterC]

Any songs you like, that you really don't want to admit to? I have a few.

The Used - All that I've got
Bruce Dickinson - Tattooed Millionaire. I dislike Maiden, but he's a damn good singer.
Odd bits of Rap I hear.

[Haver]

LOTR Music :(

[Wes]

None.

[JW]

The Ignition Remix by R. Kelly

[Moses]

I already made this thread. ;)

But LP.

[Expo'86]

The Ignition Remix by R. Kelly

Bitchin.

[PeterC]

"Slaps head".

And the title is pretty much the same as well.

[Generic Wheaties]

LP.

:cry:

[Ihsiin]

I have no guilty pleasures. I'm not ashamed of the music I listen to.

[dementia]

Slipknot - Wait and Bleed

The music isn't that bad actually, but the lyrics are so damn infantile.

[KuDoSe]

I have no guilty pleasures. I'm not ashamed of the music I listen to.

:high five:

Same.

[JW]

I'm not ashamed of liking anything, I simply put the songs that are least like the other music I listen to.

Sade - By Your Side

[Savant]

What Are You Waiting For by Gwen Stefani. Just to hear her pant.

[Jesus]

She's quiet good..... At teh pant.

[Travis]

None.

You like Morrissey!

You are my new best friend.

[MCAHCSOW]

I agree with people like Amu.

Things like "guilty pleasures" "genres" and the "mainstream" shouldn't even exist. Fuck the words when talking about music. I only use 'em cuz everyone else does so it makes it easy.

I like Avril Lavigne. I like her voice. That's my guilty pleasure if it existed.
And Wait and Bleed is classic, whoever said it. Slipknot is amazing, my favourite band. It's not infantile, most people don't get what they're doing. Any band that says "Where's Chuck D when you need him?" Is onto something bigger than what most people think.

But anyways, yeah. Go on yeh mad bastards.

[JW]

You have terrible taste in music.

[MCAHCSOW]

lol Really?

Do you like Mastodon?

[JW]

Can't say I've heard them.

I'm halfway joking about the music thing, but SlipKnot is just.. blegh.

[MCAHCSOW]

lol, Dun worry, it made me laugh.

See, the thing about Slipknot is...
Bill ward said slipknot have written the album of 2004. Mastodon, which is the reason I asked you if you like 'em, said that Slipknot is THE metal band.

All these musicians, Kerry King, Dave Grohl, all LOVE Slipknot, but the typical metal elitist, who looks up to bands like shitty Opeth or Mastodon, don't. I just find it amusing.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what a band member says, I know, but if people want credibility, there it is.

Oh snaps, you got me going on about Slipknot.

[JW]

Well, there isn't a whole lot of metal I like to begin with anyways, and SlipKnot just doesn't tickle my fancy. They're cheesy.

Edit: And comparing SlipKnot and Opeth is comparing apples and oranges.

[MCAHCSOW]

And there you go, "they just don't tickle my fancy" is all anybody really needs to say.

So go you. Like what you like. *nod*

[Cats]

I have music that I enjoy and am not 'ashamed' of liking, but I do hesitate to list it as music that I enjoy.

With that said, onwards to victory!

Linkin Park - Session
and some Powerpuff Girls music.
and I love the band that plays the Powerpuff Girls end theme, 'Bis', but It annoys me that the only way I can refer examples of their music to people is by saying the beginning of this sentence.

It would seem that my shame (in the sense as described at the top of the post,) is dependant on the people who I am telling.
Being that that is the case, I am not able to be personally ashamed of myself.

[MCAHCSOW]

Makes sense. I like Linkin Park's first album, and a few songs off of Meteora.
Oh, I can listen tosome Backstreet Boys cuz they're manufactured bullshit but they play them ALL THE TIME at grocery stores so I forced myself to atleast sorta "enjoy" the shit.

I just noticed that Johnny edited his post. Yes, comparing Slipknot is apples and oranges, but they're all in the fruit department so... People love Opeth but they go in circles. They're deemed as metal saviours when they're just... another guitar metal band. But I wasn't comparing them anyways. On another forum I'm on, I said something and people turned it into a Slipknot vs Opeth thread, lol. It was fucking stupid.

[cubist]

I like a few songs from Slipknot's first album (not including MFKR, I haven't heard it, and it doesn't count, because I said so) and I also like Gently from their second.

I will say, that to the people who think they're somehow revolutionary or doing something original . . you're wrong. This isn't my opinion. My opinion is that most of their music isn't that great, though a few songs are okay. But if you think they're anything but another hardcore band, you're kidding yourself.

A lot of my friends don't like the music I listen to (On the Wings of the Haoma by SC3, anyone?) but it's impossible to deny that something fairly unique is being done there.

I'm not even going to start on Linkin Park. I don't enjoy the music. I liked "A Place for my Head" for about two listens, after that it just seemed old.

I'm not trying to knock other people's opinions; if Korn rocks you, then so be it.

Either way. I am proud of everything I listen to, regardless. However, those who have said similar, don't avoid the question. I am positive you can think of music that fits into the "guilty pleasure" category, even if you're not ashamed.
For me, the one album I get the most shit about loving, is Left of the Middle, by Natalie Imbruglia. Natalia is a straight-up pop-music artist. And, admittedly, her second album sounds a little hackneyed, overdone, and I don't really like it. But I listen to her first a lot; "Smoke" from her debut is one of my favourite songs ever.

Funny, because every time I listen to Smoke, which is rare, I want to cry or something. It almost makes me feel uncomfortable.

[MCAHCSOW]

The last thing I wanted was a Slipknot argument, but they ARE revolutionary. They're not generic metal. And this isn't just my opinion, like I've said in this thread, there's quite a few revolutionary metallers, who praise Slipknot. Me and my friend, who is in a band that people from the area are deeming original (NOT THAT IT MATTERS, BUT IF YOU GUYS WANT CRED, HERE IT IS, AGAIN)

Everybody likes Mastodon, the singer said Slipknot is THE metal band right now and they'll be the new Metallica (meaning they'll influence tons, so don't try to be a smartass). He said Corey is the best lyricist in Metal. That's high praise. And Mastodon, like I said, is a HUGE band in the scene. I don't like them, but like I said... huge.

You know how a lot of people claim Black Sabbath started Metal? Well, read what I said above, how Bill Ward said Slipknot wrote the album of 2004. I mean, christ.
Not to make any of us feel bad, but I'd rather have Bill Ward critique my album with a comment like that then some random people on a board. That works both ways, I'm not saying I'm more important.

I'm really sorry to repeat my comments like that, but I had to stress it.

Slipknot isn't a hardcore band either. lol.
For sake of arguments, let's throw out a lil something. For genres they incorportate into their music, they have grind, jungle techno, heavy metal, nu-metal, world, death metal, hardcore, funk, metal, death, grind, harmonies, choral, rap, just to name A BUNCH.

Joey's drumming alone is jazz, latin, fusion, jungle.

And in the past, I've learned that nobody will believe me when I say such things, but the music speaks for itself.
Think about it, everyone, not just Coconut, how can you have 9 members in a group with such different musical backgrounds, and NOT have that many genres in yer music?

[JW]

Joey is a good drummer, and a good guitarist, too. I just don't think it's all that revolutionary. I mean, what about Static X or Mushroomhead blending techno sounds with metal?

[MCAHCSOW]

The thing is, if you don't think it is, well, I can't change yer mind. I just hate straight out "you're wrong" comments. It's just a bunch of fucking shit.

Static X isn't revolutionary because their lyrics are shit, and their instrument work is boring and Slipknot isn't revolutionary just cuz they add techno into their stuff. Mushroomhead, while I don't think they're revolutionary, ATLEAST have an interesting sound. I'll give them that.

The difference is how many influences Slipknot puts in their music, compared to the rest. They're the total package. Another thing they do well is they don't stick to a style lyrically.
Magazines have slagged off Corey cuz he's no longer writing lines like "I'll slit your throat and fuck the wound." Now he's writing more philosophical. There's very few bands who can switch between fuck you, punk, aggressive in your face lyrics and philosophical lyrics and still be effective.

[valin]

Caesar's Palace - Jerk It Out. So ridiculously poppy... and yet so catchy...

And occasionally stuff like Emperor. Although none of it really makes me feel guilty...

About Static-X, I used to really like them... and admittedly Slipknot... back in the day. Like, a few years ago. They kind of shitted themselves out, and I don't see how they'll influence tons, personally - it's like they already ran out of material by the first couple CD's. At least Metallica had some talent and (usually) didn't just feed off whatever was current in the metal scene. What is with these bands like Audioslave, Linkin Park, etc. having "philosophical" lyrics, anyway? "Be Yourself"? Come on, if that didn't require deep thinking...

But then again, there are people who hate Nirvana for the reason that they actually didn't have much talent and stuck to basic chords/repetition. Still, look at what they managed to do with it and how effective their music continues to be. They're getting major radio time after a decade.

[MCAHCSOW]

How did Slipknot already run out of material? They just released an album that's completely different than their other albums. Oh, and all the members have tons of talent. People are slowly realizing that now.

But Audioslave is a bunch of shit. I don't like them. Linkin Park is only a band I listen to cuz it's enjoyable, not cuz their lyrics are deep in the least.

Nirvana is classic. The attitude Kurt had, especially, is legendary.

[Ihsiin]

Of all the different aspects of a song, lyrics are the least important. It doesn't matter what's being said as long as the song sounds good.

[valin]

Of all the different aspects of a song, lyrics are the least important. It doesn't matter what's being said as long as the song sounds good.

I agree... 90%. I pretty much listen to the music and the sound of the words more than what is actually being said. However, lyrics can occasionally make or break a song, so I wouldn't say don't matter, period.

[MCAHCSOW]

It doesn't matter what's being said...

Do you just listen to music casually?

[KuDoSe]

My whiole music taste is like everyone's guilty pleasures put into one, with style added in.

[JW]

It doesn't matter what's being said...

Do you just listen to music casually?

I'm by no means a casual listener, and I don't give a damn what's being said, as long as it's not cheesy. Half the music I listen to doesn't even have words.

And there's nothing special about SlipKnot's lyrics. "If you're 555, I'm 666." I mean, come on. That's awful.

[MCAHCSOW]

What's it about?
And maybe, you should read up on what punk lyrics are too. Or maybe you should stop trying to bash Slipknot by quoting ONE line. It's brilliant. It's in your face, it's a fuck you.
We can play this game though, "Where's Chuck D when you need him?"

Music doesn't need lyrics to say something, buddy.

[JW]

Their lyrics in general are just stupid, and corny.

Mika needs to find this thread and pwn some ass.

[Xeno Overlord]

Were you not just a minute ago stressing the importance of lyrics, and how great Slipknots lyrics are? You seem to be contradicting yourself. And as Amu said, Lyrics are unimportant more of the time. To call someone who finds that lyrics are not necessary ignorant about music is beyond stupid.

As for slipknot, they are NOT revolutionary. Maybe for the mainstream, but in terms of the metal scene as a whole its nothing new. They did not create a new genre. They are not that talented (admitted Joey is quite good). Their lyrics are your typical teen angst with a bit of edge. I dont know how you can call them revolutionary. I have never been a big fan of Slipknot, but I did enjoy Mate Feed Kill Repeat. Also Mastodon is far superior to Slipknot even though they are not in technically in the same sub-genre.

I dont really have an guilty pleasures. I am proud of listenning to everything from Masonna to Anal ****, Boards of Canada to Of Montreal. If its good there is not need to feel guilty.

[valin]

If its good there is no need to feel guilty.

Repeating that in case you missed it the first time.

[Cats]

It doesn't matter what's being said...

Do you just listen to music casually?

Music doesn't need lyrics to say something, buddy.

That, to me, seems like a contradiction.
I mean, first you suggest that people who aren't ignorant about music know that lyrics are really important, and then you follow up with that next statement.
Or maybe I don't catch what you actually mean.

I will say this much (and more later.)

Music is about sound.
Literature is about words.
(Or.)
If I wanted words I'd read a book.

Music is primarily about conveying feelings and atmosphere and that kind of stuff, through sounds played along some form of structure.
Literature is about comunicating the aformentioned 'stuff' through words, and occasionally pictures.
Music only started incorporated the singing of lyrics because the human voice is an excellent instrument in itself, and people just thought, "well while I'm here using my voice I might as well be saying something."
Thus lyrics were able to slide right in.
Now I'm not saying that lyrics are at all bad.
But I will in some small aspect, now.
Lyrics tend to be distracting.
A lot of listeners will only really follow the lyrics of a song because they can understand what is being said in the English language, but not in the language of sound.
Thus lyrics have the incredible ability to detract from a song.
Especially when the singer has a bad voice (which is subjective, of course,) or too much importance is placed on the lyrics.

Come to think of it, this is why a lot of lone singer artists get other people to produce.
They realise that lyrics alone cannot make a song good, even with the aid of the musical qualities of the human voice.
Well not all time.

I mean, I like a good B-Side as much as (more than) the next person, and when I find B-Sides of both the instrumental and acappella of the same song, almost every single time the instrumental version is far more entertaining, while the acappella hardly gets a second listen.


Lyrics are only a garnish.



Now so as not to be entirely off-topic,
I also consider my reasonably medium collection of videogame music to be a guilty pleasure (in the eyes of others.)

[Negativity]

I'm embarassed of everything I listen to. I feel insecure telling people my likes and dislikes. Therefore making me a pleasureful, yet guilty bastard.

[cubist]

Boggy, I'm very much with you on lyrics. There is only one artist I like where the words actually matter a fair amount, that being Elliott Smith. In general, I think if you can't convey your feelings/intent through music, then lyrics aren't going to help. They should support the music, not tell you what it's about.


MCAH, I'm not saying Slipknot sucks. Even if I do think that, it's only my opinion.
But what is not opinion, is that they're not doing something new. That's the most ignorant fucking thing I've ever heard. They may incorporate a few influences (trust me when I say you haven't heard a real mixture of genres until you've listened to a perrenial favourite, Mr. Bungle - Who, by the way, were wearing masks and boiler suits long before Slipknot or Mushroom Head) but even if they're doing something they haven't done before, a lot of others have.

I mean, if you're hearing something you haven't heard before, that's great. But don't go off saying nothing else like this exists. I've heard so much amazing music in my short life so far that Slipknot sounds simple and watered down by comparison.

All I'm saying is, if you're going to defend them, try and make some damn sense. I still feel like laughing, "Revolutionary" . . . .


Edit: Thankyou in advance for not taking offense at my provocatory remarks =D

[JW]

[Moses]

Save it Johnny.

[MCAHCSOW]

lol, alright, and now to sort out what's being said, considering it seems to take what, 4 of you to argue against one? I'll do this the best I can so none of you feel like yer being left out.

To Johnny:
Stupid and corny and you never answered my questions or even really talked about any of the comments I made, right. Get out of here, atleast the other people have something to say. I have no idea who Mika is but I"m sure he's not any better.
And "pwn some ass", grow up, lol, seriously.

To Xeno Overlord

Actually, a minute ago I was stressing how much I like them and how much these revolutionary bands like 'em. Y'know, proving that they are in fact, a total package cuz they've got it all going for them. *hums*
I never once said ignorant. I asked Amu if he/she listens to music casually and it was because he said that MUSIC DOESN'T NEED TO SAY ANYTHING AS LONG AS IT SOUNDS GOOD, but the fact is, like I said later, which you guys dont' seem to understand, MUSIC DOESN'T NEED LYRICS TO SAY ANYTHING. A lot of die hard fans believe that music should have a real message and not just be music that sounds good. Hence why I don't listen to crunk very often. Not saying you can't be a die hard fan (with a vengeance) if you don't believe in that, but I'm sure you guys won't misunderstand that like you seem to misunderstand everything else I've said.

and lol, really now. You miss what I said about Mastodon. It doesn't matter if YOU sir, think they're better than Slipknot, my point was that a band like Mastodon is in love with Slipknot. Why do you think that is?
They are revolutionary cuz they're bringing something new, to music. TO MUSIC. That's underground and mainstream.
And yeah, because individuality, sticking up for yourself, life going in circles, numbers being the universe, making decisions, giving back to the world what it gave to you, being watched by Big Brother and others, etc, all that is typical teen angst. Would you like me to carry on? There ARE deeper meanings, lol.
There's such a thing as tackling your inner demons AND saying something truly important, y'know. Slipknot does it all in one song on more than one occasion.

And now on to Cats, your posts are disjointed so you get to BE THE SPECIAL ONE WHO I QUOTE ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION, YIPPEE.

Obviously you didn't catch what I actually mean. (your first paragraph)


Music is about sound.
Literature is about words.
(Or.)
If I wanted words I'd read a book.

lol, you know, you've got a point, sorta. But why is it one of the first "instruments" was vocals? Right. None of you guys seem to realize that I never said lyrics are necessary, I'm just talking about Slipknot as a whole My band does instrumental songs, as well

Music is primarily about conveying feelings and atmosphere and that kind of stuff, through sounds played along some form of structure.
Literature is about comunicating the aformentioned 'stuff' through words, and occasionally pictures.
Music only started incorporated the singing of lyrics because the human voice is an excellent instrument in itself, and people just thought, "well while I'm here using my voice I might as well be saying something."
Thus lyrics were able to slide right in.
Now I'm not saying that lyrics are at all bad.

lol, so yer point is that vocals are a good instrument. So, what's wrong with incorporating any instrument you want into a band's sound? The only attack you guys even got against me is that you think I said lyrics are needed. And, as my bold statement above proves, I never said that, so yay, you guys' attack is a buncha bullshit!

lol, I read over your whole post and you just repeated yourself. Blah blah, my bold statement kills everything you just said.
Lyrics ARE just a garnish so, yer right but, so is bass, so are drums, so is guitar, so is flute, so is a cello, so is a violin, etc. Once again, Slipknot is a total package.

And now, my buddy Coconut, who took the time to tell me he doesn't hate me:

First and foremost, lol, what's funny about all this is I HAVE heard Mr. Bungle, I HAVE California, Disco Volante and their self titled and I HAVE heard like, OU818, but I'm still looking for some of their other demos. In fact, Mr Bungle is one of my favourite bands, they come after Slipknot so...

What nobody understands about the masks is that they did it to express their music, above WHO THEY ARE, what they look like. They wanted to convey that they are a bunch of nobodies. Hence giving themselves numbers, as well. They've embraced the idea of image.

Did the image back fire against 'em? Yeah, it did. People still haven't understood it, but who's to blame there? Not Slipknot, they had the right idea and they are STILL going with the image, still rollin' with it and evolving with it. They'll be the first to tell you it's all about the music. My band will do the same thing, actually. Mask ourselves cuz frankly, what's more important, the message or who's saying it?

And here we go, the same shit. Same thing, always, "it sounds watered down" blah blah. Everybody says THE SAME thing in an argument. Whereas, I, gave examples of why they don't sound like any other band.

If you feel like laughing, laugh, lol, doesn't make a lick o'difference, yo. Lord knows I find this funny. 4 against 1, lol.

But all I ask, is that you guys huddle together on MSN or something, have a lil bash fest and think up ONE post against me cuz this is really quite tedious, having to talk to all of you.
That's all I ask.


If I missed someone, tell me, I'll get to you next post, cuz I don't miss any points people make.

[cubist]

God fucking damn, you have Disco Volante (one of my favourite albums ever)
I can't slander you now. ='[ BASTARD

Okay, anyway. I'll give in on the mask thing, that was just a random comment. As you said, a whole bunch of us were trying to figure out one thing to say in retort, and that's what we collectively came up with.
[insert rolleyes emoticon here]

As for your examples of why they are great . . I don't buy the Mastodon thing. They're a good band (I guess, haven't heard enough to form a totally solid opinion) but why should I give a flying farcelona what they think of some other band?

And my main point, I cannot help but take issue with your statement that they're unique. I don't see (er, hear) one unique thing in their music. And frankly, for somebody who does seem to have potentially good taste* in music, I honestly can't see how you could believe this. It's one thing to say you like them, love them, whatever. I don't rag on people who like Korn, though I can't really stand them anymore myself. But to say that they're treading untrodden paths . . I just don't get it man. I own their first two albums (well, I think I do . . my CD collection is so haphazard I don't know what I've got and what I've given/sold/thrown away) and have heard The Subliminal Verses. I guess their third is where you're getting this from, because that is a little more varied . . but still, where's the originality, where's the uniqueness?
Not that a band has to be unique or original to be good. One of my favourite artists, Elliott Smith, sounds like a beatles rip-off half the time. And of course, just because you're doing something new, doesn't mean it's something good.
That's obviously not the issue, just making it clear for whoever might not find it to be. The issue is that Slipknot, in my honest opinion, don't sound particularly special.


Oh, and, if you want to know. There is one single Slipknot song I really like, though I haven't heard it in a while. Scissors, it's great. And the track after that ain't bad either.



Either way. I apologise on behalf of everyone (including myself) for hijacking this thread.

Guilty Pleasure song: Britney Spears - Toxic. Fucking damn pop shit music blah.

*For future reference, Good Taste is defined as, "An opinion which correlates entirely with my own, and is therefore valid."

[Mauler]

Uh, you guys are fighting over Slipknot. That's sad.

Anyway, if someone says lyrics don't mean shit in music, you need to be shot in the face. You most likely have never listened to lyrics or you just listen bands like Slipknot who have very avarage lyrics, even below that. Mastodon is not a huge band in scene, no way. And talking about scene, you are only talking about American metal scene, which is the most far away from metal nowdays and most embaressing when you look back what metal is about and what are the basics of metal music. Who cares what Bill Ward says? He was just the Sabbath drummer. The guy who played the drums very well, yes. But never really contributed in Sabbath, Tommy Iommi IS Black Sabbath. If Iommi would say something like that, well, okay. It doesn't make it any better statement that what I would say. Even the guys from big bands are just humans, they aren't gods, they speak from their own point of view. If you want some American metal band which has been seriously revolutionary in every way a band can be, check out Pantera.

[MCAHCSOW]

Oh christ, another one.

Me and Coconut talked on MSN and he's logical, so I'm not gonna bother replying to his post, he knows why.
It doesn't matter what member of Black Sabbath it is, one of 'em STILL said that. He still has the right to say, I'm in Black Sabbath. You seem to miss the point that NO, IT SHOULDN'T MATTER WHO SAYS WHAT, but you guys wanted credibility. So there you have it. I can't think of much better than to list big Metal bands in the current scene OR past scenes.

And yes, Mastodon is big. People cream over 'em, for some odd reason. Like Dream Theater, both bands are shit.

10, or 20 years, Slipknot will be seen as very influential. Just wait for it. If I'm wrong, which I doubt, I'd admit it but I won't be.
But yet another person who has said shitty lyrics but has ignored every other thing I've said in this thread, lol.

I'm done, you guys argue amongst yoruselves.

[JW]

Sure, it's easy to say "Oh I was talking about SlipKnot as a whole, not just the lyrics."
Although you were clearly trying to prove how deep they were. I could shit SlipKnot lyrics.

I fuck orphans in their eyes!
See? It's not that hard to do.

The only "question" you asked me is "What is it about?" and if you were referring to the music, then I believe Boggy already covered that. It's moreso about conveying atmosphere or moods.

You claim I'm not even talking about any of the comments you made. The whole start of this argument was me disagreeing that SlipKnot was revolutionary. I compared them to some other bands that weren't revolutionary even though they did something a little different, and you pretty much repeated what I said. My point being If SlipKnot is revolutionary just because they blend styles, then a whole shitload of bands could be considered "revolutionary" for doing the same. (hed)PE mixes altern, metal, rap, techno, acid, and I hate them. Save a few songs, it's some of the most annoying music ever. That's how I feel about SlipKnot. Sure, they blend styles, but the doesn't mean they're good. Just because they got lucky, made a few music videos, and got a big mainstream following doesn't mean they're great either. Using the same logic, Nickelback and Good Charolette are fantastic. They've defined annoying mainstream pop rock.

To top it all off, this is a stupid argument over a matter of opinion. All I have done is looked at what you've said, and told you why I disagree. Then, when the argument moves to a more focused aspect of the band, you claim that I (and the rest of us) are "focusing on the lyrics only." My whole point is, I fail to see what makes SlipKnot revolutionary, and you've failed in your attempts to try and prove it to me.

[MCAHCSOW]

You make it really hard to quit such "a stupid argument." If it's so dumb, maybe you'd stop.

lol, you don't even know what If your 555, I'm 666 means I bet if you think it's THAT easy. I did mean how the lyrics are deep, but I was talking about Slipknot as a whole. I'm slowly getting to commenting on every member of the band.

I asked you what the line meant, that you said. Why didn't you comment on "Where's Chuck D when you need him?"
Did you pay attention to this comment: And maybe, you should read up on what punk lyrics are too. Or maybe you should stop trying to bash Slipknot by quoting ONE line. It's brilliant. It's in your face, it's a fuck you.

Thoughts, comments?

I proved they're revolutionary the best you can prove. I gave you all these genres they put together. How bands are talking about how awesome they are. How they love 'em. How the world loves 'em. I mean, christ. How can you argue any of that?

Good Charlotte and Nickelback haven't changed anything and nobody in the music business who stepped outside of a bubble is saying they're influential. That's the difference.

How else would you argue that a band is revolutionary? Exactly.
"I gave you all these genres they put together. How bands are talking about how awesome they are. How they love 'em. How the world loves 'em."

Wanna see that again? Cuz if you can think of something better to prove they aren't, by all means.
I gave you all these genres they put together. How bands are talking about how awesome they are. How they love 'em. How the world loves 'em.

I did say that the only thing you guys are attacking is the fact that you THINK I was saying lyrics are the most important thing. Never once did I say that. Go re-read my posts.

Edit: The truth is, Jonny, you can't PROVE anything and the only reason I use the word is cuz you use it. So we're gonna be arguing until all of you shut up.

[JW]

If you were to turn on the radio, all you would hear would most likely be a whiny voiced pop punk song, or a pseudo-angsty boring attempt at altern. All thanks to Good Charolette and Nickelback.

And I'm not bashing them by quoting ONE line.
Well, there isn't a whole lot of metal I like to begin with anyways, and SlipKnot just doesn't tickle my fancy. They're cheesy.

Their lyrics in general are just stupid, and corny.

Anyways, I just don't think SlipKnot has changed the face of music, or even metal in general.

[Xeno Overlord]

Their influence not worth noting. They are just slightly decent Nu-Metal. They have not pioneered anything. To say they are revolutionary is completely off base. Also Mastodon has nothing to do with Slipknot. Which GOOD band has Slipknot had any sort of influence on? Name me one. They are a decent band but nothing special

"And yeah, because individuality, sticking up for yourself, life going in circles, numbers being the universe, making decisions, giving back to the world what it gave to you, being watched by Big Brother and others, etc, all that is typical teen angst. Would you like me to carry on? There ARE deeper meanings, lol.
There's such a thing as tackling your inner demons AND saying something truly important, y'know. Slipknot does it all in one song on more than one occasion "

Most of what you said has been covered by most angst bands. Their lyrics are weak. For the most part they are poorly crafted and sometimes plain old crap. A theme can be good, but if you have the intellectual ablity of a third grader, you wont be able to pull it off. To say that Slipknot lyrics are anything more than mediocre is pushing it.

I disagree with what Mauler(Mika) said about lyrics. Lyrics are unimportant. If you are not able to convey the emotions and your message without lyrics, you are just not talented songwriters. However I resepect Mauler for his immense knowledge of Metal.

Also quit being a fanboy. You care too much about Slipknot. We are not trying to take personal cracks. We (I) just think that Slipknot is very mediocre.

[valin]

You should make a separate thread called "Here be circular arguments about Slipknot and their supposed 'legacy' even though the majority of the people posting on this thread claim to feel guilty listening to them and/or not give a shit about them".

Yeah, think you could maybe fit that on one line?

[JW]

Another fitting title: "Valin's failed attempt at humor; details inside!"

[valin]

But what about the deeper meaning?

[Cocoa Christ]

And yes, Mastodon is big. People cream over 'em, for some odd reason. Like Dream Theater, both bands are shit.
I could put up with your constant whining until you said this. If you think Splipknot is better than Dream Theater, something is really wrong with you. Mike Portnoy, the drummer from dream theater has been named best progressive rock drummer in the world for the last 10 years in a row. I would like to see Slipknot perform 50% of what Dream Theater performs live.

I never really liked metal. After I heard dream theater, my entire perspective changed. Talented metal is very good. Slipknot isn't the most talented metal I've ever heard, nowhere near. Therefore I don't like them, because I don't really care for metal all that much.

You are a typical Slipknot "fanboy." There are thousands of them where I live, so I pretty much already have you figured out. I'm guessing you prefer to sport a black hoody of some sort, enjoy occassional hacky sack, and believe that the music you listen to is somehow "above" the music everyone else in the world listens to. Slipknot, Slipknot, slipknot. Is that all you listen to?

Basically, what I've gotten from your argument is that you like Slipknot because the guys from Mastodon like Slipknot. But you don't like Mastodon. Alos, lyrics are everything in a song. But they're not. The arguments you make are put together (for lack of better word) shittily, and when you do offer backing support, it backfires into your face and makes you look like an ass. In this thread you argued with Cats. That's the only thing I'm going to give you praise for. Cats is like the equivalent of Buddha on this message board.

Anyways, about music, and guilty pleasures. I don't think I really have any. I like a lot of music. I like a wide variety of styles because I think that most music takes a degree of talent. Most. A band I've been listening to a lot recently is "Cake." I'd suggest 'The Distance' or 'Frank Sinatra.' But what can I say? I mean, they don't really have anything proflific in their music, but what's important is the way they sound, right?

[Xeno Overlord]

Mastodon are getting big in the Metalcore scene. This is not something I would call being BIG in the music industry.

Anyways I dont know why youare arguing with us. Yo like it. Listen to it. But when you make vastly incorrect statements such as you have expect a retort.

[cubist]

Cocoa, you need to take a course in pwnage, because you failed.


MCAHCSOW, none of your points seem to me to explain how they're revolutionary. Popular? Following? That may be true, but the latest American Idol winner is popular. The one good point is the genre-mixing, but how does mixing genres make a band revolutionary? Even our beloved Bungle aren't technically "Revolutionary." You could trace it back to people like Frank Zappa, for instance.
I just don't get your unwavering opinion that they are doing something new. I can totally accept you like them; what rocks you, rocks you, and that's great. I just don't see the originality. They weren't the first to mix genres, they weren't the first to play something other than straight-up metal, they weren't the first to combine various other elements you mention. They may be the first, and I take this from your opinion, to do it well and coherently, but that doesn't make them special. It doesn't even make them that innovative.
I think the problem is, there are so few people in music trying well and truly new things, that nobody knows about them. So when something they've never heard before reaches their ears, it must be unique, because I ain't heard it before.


Yes, anyway. I'll shutup.

[Cats]

lol, alright, and now to sort out what's being said, considering it seems to take what, 4 of you to argue against one? I'll do this the best I can so none of you feel like yer being left out.

That would be four people arguing against one, were it not for these two things:

1. I'm not actually arguing against you. See...
Usually, and you'll all understand this after a while, I just read that someone types and then it reminds me of something off and I go off on a tangent. So a lot of time people think I'm talking to them but I'm just talking to myself, and whoever wants to pay attention, good for them. (http://www.randomforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=118768&postcount=14)

and 2. It's not a case of it requiring multiple people to be arguing against you. It's more a case of having four people in an argument, three of whom share a similar viewpoint.
But that's just insignificant details that have no effect on the result.


Obviously you didn't catch what I actually mean. (your first paragraph)

Then could you please tell me what you actually meant?


lol, you know, you've got a point, sorta. But why is it one of the first "instruments" was vocals? Right. None of you guys seem to realize that I never said lyrics are necessary, I'm just talking about Slipknot as a whole My band does instrumental songs, as well

One of the first instrument would have been vocals because they are readily available to everyone (except mutes.)
Vocal instrumentation would have came before many man-made instruments because people have had voices long before they had instruments.

The only reason why I had posted anything about lyrics is because of what I percieved to be a contradiction in your two (previously outlined) statements.


lol, so yer point is that vocals are a good instrument. So, what's wrong with incorporating any instrument you want into a band's sound? The only attack you guys even got against me is that you think I said lyrics are needed. And, as my bold statement above proves, I never said that, so yay, you guys' attack is a buncha bullshit!

I am not attacking you at all.
If I were arguing with you I would be trying to prove wrong at least one of the points you made.
And as you said yourself, you never made any points about lyrics being necessary.
Also, you never said whether you thought that lyrics were necessary or not, so if nobody even knows what your stance on an issue is, they cannot argue with it.
Nobody can argue with you about something that isn't up for argumentation.


I never said there was anything wrong with vocals or instruments, and I only pointed out one slight annoyance that occasionally affects me personally.


lol, I read over your whole post and you just repeated yourself. Blah blah, my bold statement kills everything you just said.
Lyrics ARE just a garnish so, yer right but, so is bass, so are drums, so is guitar, so is flute, so is a cello, so is a violin, etc. Once again, Slipknot is a total package.

I disagree, and here's why:
When I say 'lyrics', I mean the words and phrases that are said. I do not mean the use of vocals.
And when I say they are just garnish, well...
e.g. The song 'Waters Of March' has been covered quite a few times.
I have listened to at least four different versions.
One in English, one in French, and I'm not sure what the other two are.
Guess what? I love the french one much more than the other three.
I prefer it because I like the singers voice more than the other singers.
Sure I'm missing out on whatever's being said, (and to this day I have no idea what that is,) but the words don't matter because it sounds nicer (to me.)
If the lyrics were equally as important as the instruments (as you seem to have said) then the song just wouldn't be as enjoyable as the English version.
Actually, I've lost myself and my point.

You're right that instruments are garnish, but only when applied to an already established song.
And I believe that lyrics are garnish to a much greater degree than the instruments.
So in a way it comes down to,
Sound is garnish to established lyrics.
Lyrics are garnish to established sound.
But now I'm just thinking aloud.
It's nothing to do with what you were talking about.
In fact, unless you can find something relevant in there, you can just ignore all of that.



But all I ask, is that you guys huddle together on MSN or something, have a lil bash fest and think up ONE post against me cuz this is really quite tedious, having to talk to all of you.
That's all I ask.

If we did that, instead of answering four normal posts, you would have to answer one post that was four times as long.
HeeHee...



One more thing.
I have nothing against you at all.
Quite the opposite.
You've brought a significant increase in activity to here.
And I enjoy it.

[Ihsiin]

This point has been brought up several times before, but I'll bring it up anyway.

Music is about conveying an atmosphere or an emotion through sound, not through words. The human voice is a great musical instrument, being able to produce a great range sounds, but people tend to feel stupid if they're just making noises and no words, and so lyrics come about. The best songs are those which have vocals that are near incomprehensible (but still sound good), so that we have the advantage of the human voice, but we're not distracted by the words; or at least, this is what I think. Don't get me wrong, though. There are some songs with great lyrics, but I'd much rather read them than take note of them in a song. After all, in the end music is about sounds, not words.

[cubist]

. . . people tend to feel stupid if they're just making noises and no words . . .Hahaha . . (now playing: Fantômas - Page 29)

[Cocoa Christ]

Cocoa, you need to take a course in pwnage, because you failed.
Wait, who are you?

[cubist]

I'm better than yo-

Meh, fine. I'm nobody. But your post didn't really make a good argument, so I'm being a dickhead about it.

If only there was an ignore button here, you wouldn't have to worry about silly newbies.

[Cocoa Christ]

Now that I look at more of your posts, you seem rather intelligent.

Still, I think you were out of place. I never said anything to you.

I probably wouldn't put you on ignore anyways. There are very few people I would put on ignore. I like to see EVERYTHING.

[cubist]

Fair enough thinking I was out of place, but my motives for saying it were horrendously complicated.
By that I mean I was trying to seem even-handed, by arguing with MCAH then giving you shit. I suppose it's not so complicated as I thought.

But you can see the mindgames already, can't you . . .

[MCAHCSOW]

Sorry for the lateness. One thing I find funny is the one guy who said that I'm whining, when you are all doing the exact same thing.
Someone said that everyone on this board laughs at Slipknot so it's dumb for me to say that they're revolutionary. Which is hilarious considering this is one small board... full of a bunch of elitists (minus a few). Nobody's opinion on here is worth shit, including me, lol.

Xeno Overlord, you know, Kerry King once said that Slipknot is influencing him. I know they were around tons longer but you can still be influenced by a "younger" band. And reading about how much youloved Slayer's live show, I'm assuming you love Slayer. Amen. Same kinda deal. So convince me how they have the intelligence of a 3rd grader. But don't just show me one line in their lyrics cuz it's misleading.
And really, you guys have taken personal cracks. lol. "Fanboy" "I have you all figured out" (Even though that was said after you). So.... yeah, fellas. Stop it.
Why are you aguing with me? Same reason. I know a few.

And Cocoa Christ, lol, just, wow...
Man, I just like Slipknot more. I never mentioned how good anybody is at their instrument, because it just doesn't matter. Sorry, it doesn't. I bet most of the members of Slipknot could play Dream Theater stuff though. Just a hunch, can't really prove it, but you can't really disprove it.
And that fanboy comment. I wear a hoody or a jacket when it's cold. I don't play hackey sack and I never once thought that my music is in some way "better" than anyones. That's a bunch of crap. I enjoy my music more but HOLY obvious comment batman. I'm not dark on the outside, I don't have piercings, no tattoos yet, I'm not "goth." And I don't just listen to Slipknot, ifyou'd take the time to figure out what I listen to BEFORE you make a comment like that, you'd realize that not everybody who loves Slipknot is like that.
Nirvana, SOAD, The End, Buried Inside, Mr Bungle, Fantomas, Sleepytime Guerilla Museum, Secret Chiefs, APC, Tool, Jesu, Wolf Eyes, Porcupine Tree, Eminem, Tupac, Zorn, Mr Scruff, The Experimental Pop Band, Queens ofthe Stone Age, Oi Polloi, Amen, Atmosphere, Cult ofLuna, Isis, Queen Adreena, Refused, Eyvind Kang (is that the spelling? I don't have any cds, I just have some downloaded), GISM, Tomahawk, Buckethead, blah blah blah blah BLAH, just to name a few.

And I have yet to look like anass. People always do this in arguments. Personal attacks. Say someone looks like an ass when you know every single one of you is having a hard time arguing this. I bet everyone of you have "thought" about this.

Lol, yes, I like Slipknot cuz Mastodon does. Definitely. Because I didn't hear Slipknot before I heard them. Right. So yeah, the only reason I bring up Mastodon is cuz lots of people like 'em, I don't, but they said Slipknot is influential. That's all I'm saying. Just a lil point that people are blowing otu of proportion.

And aww, it's my buddy Dave who I'm replying to last. Yes, music is "recycled" as some might say but the way Slipknot puts it together is different. That's all I"m saying. It's revolutionary, but revolutions take time so check back with me in a few years. I'll stand by this statement. So really, sorry, worded poorly, they're GONNA be revolutionary. I'll accept I worded THAT part ofmy argument poorly. The rest you all just can't understand.
And, like, you guys treat it like only a few people can be revolutionary. Why can't there be a lot of revolutionary bands? Revolutions included a lot of people..

and Cats isn't buddha. Nothing against the fella, but just... no, lol.
No reply to Cats cuz he didn't really argue anything, like he said. So keep up the good work soldier.

And there, the only reason I replied was so you guys wouldn't feel too self righteous. I'll probably be back in another month, lol, so if you feel the need to continue it, do so, and come fix my space bar too.

[Perfect Agent]

I like muted Britney videos.

[Rather]

I like muted Britney videos.

Fuck, same here...

And yes, Slipknot blow.

[Xeno Overlord]

Sorry for the lateness. One thing I find funny is the one guy who said that I'm whining, when you are all doing the exact same thing.
Someone said that everyone on this board laughs at Slipknot so it's dumb for me to say that they're revolutionary. Which is hilarious considering this is one small board... full of a bunch of elitists (minus a few). Nobody's opinion on here is worth shit, including me, lol.

Xeno Overlord, you know, Kerry King once said that Slipknot is influencing him. I know they were around tons longer but you can still be influenced by a "younger" band. And reading about how much youloved Slayer's live show, I'm assuming you love Slayer. Amen. Same kinda deal. So convince me how they have the intelligence of a 3rd grader. But don't just show me one line in their lyrics cuz it's misleading.
And really, you guys have taken personal cracks. lol. "Fanboy" "I have you all figured out" (Even though that was said after you). So.... yeah, fellas. Stop it.
Why are you aguing with me? Same reason. I know a few.

And Cocoa Christ, lol, just, wow...
Man, I just like Slipknot more. I never mentioned how good anybody is at their instrument, because it just doesn't matter. Sorry, it doesn't. I bet most of the members of Slipknot could play Dream Theater stuff though. Just a hunch, can't really prove it, but you can't really disprove it.
And that fanboy comment. I wear a hoody or a jacket when it's cold. I don't play hackey sack and I never once thought that my music is in some way "better" than anyones. That's a bunch of crap. I enjoy my music more but HOLY obvious comment batman. I'm not dark on the outside, I don't have piercings, no tattoos yet, I'm not "goth." And I don't just listen to Slipknot, ifyou'd take the time to figure out what I listen to BEFORE you make a comment like that, you'd realize that not everybody who loves Slipknot is like that.
Nirvana, SOAD, The End, Buried Inside, Mr Bungle, Fantomas, Sleepytime Guerilla Museum, Secret Chiefs, APC, Tool, Jesu, Wolf Eyes, Porcupine Tree, Eminem, Tupac, Zorn, Mr Scruff, The Experimental Pop Band, Queens ofthe Stone Age, Oi Polloi, Amen, Atmosphere, Cult ofLuna, Isis, Queen Adreena, Refused, Eyvind Kang (is that the spelling? I don't have any cds, I just have some downloaded), GISM, Tomahawk, Buckethead, blah blah blah blah BLAH, just to name a few.

And I have yet to look like anass. People always do this in arguments. Personal attacks. Say someone looks like an ass when you know every single one of you is having a hard time arguing this. I bet everyone of you have "thought" about this.

Lol, yes, I like Slipknot cuz Mastodon does. Definitely. Because I didn't hear Slipknot before I heard them. Right. So yeah, the only reason I bring up Mastodon is cuz lots of people like 'em, I don't, but they said Slipknot is influential. That's all I'm saying. Just a lil point that people are blowing otu of proportion.

And aww, it's my buddy Dave who I'm replying to last. Yes, music is "recycled" as some might say but the way Slipknot puts it together is different. That's all I"m saying. It's revolutionary, but revolutions take time so check back with me in a few years. I'll stand by this statement. So really, sorry, worded poorly, they're GONNA be revolutionary. I'll accept I worded THAT part ofmy argument poorly. The rest you all just can't understand.
And, like, you guys treat it like only a few people can be revolutionary. Why can't there be a lot of revolutionary bands? Revolutions included a lot of people..

and Cats isn't buddha. Nothing against the fella, but just... no, lol.
No reply to Cats cuz he didn't really argue anything, like he said. So keep up the good work soldier.

And there, the only reason I replied was so you guys wouldn't feel too self righteous. I'll probably be back in another month, lol, so if you feel the need to continue it, do so, and come fix my space bar too.

Honestly why do you care so much....
:rolleyes: