TeamXbox: Biased or Fair?

[Mach]

I've seen countless talks from the Sony forums on many of TXB's biased editorials on next gen systems and other related items. Biased reports, lies, misinformation, etc.

Then again, I've heard a lot of positive things about Big TXB...granted not at this board.

So with that said, what are your thoughts on TeamXbox.com's coverage of Microsoft and Sony? Fair and balanced, biased, or just plain garbage?

Vote and give examples of articles and statements that showcase your point.

[Mathx]

wow...everyone hate's Xbox here...not that I support it in any way...

*runs away from the rabid crowd*

[Nerve-Damage]

Biased like most specific hardware centric sites!!

[Mach]

Let us see some links to articles to back up these claims.

[Danji]

This thread deals with teamxbox, not the xbox itself. I voted biased myself and am now trying to find a news thing to back it up.

edit: I think I found what everyone knows is infamous net-wide.

http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1160/Xbox-360-Playstation-3-Performance-Comparison/p1/

[D3adcell]

This should really probably be posted in the general gaming boards.

[stanDarsh]

I don't visit team xbox often if at all. What they do is their business, and if it works for them, great, who are we to judge?

No offense Mach, but I really don't see what this has to do with PS3 at all, more so than if it were an x360 or Rev thread. Perhaps general gaming or general discussion would be a better home for this thread.

-Edit- Deadcell just beat me to it.

[dork]

I've never cared for TeamXbox. Ever since the whole TeamXbox Vs NintendoNow debate incident:

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=22838&page=1&pp=20&highlight=teamxbox

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=321124&page=1&pp=15

[Mach]

Actually there's a reason why it's in PS3 Forums...

It's directed at their TXB's coverage of PS3/X360...something I've seen countless complaints about over the months.

The PSINext community stays in this forum...they dont venture anywhere else. If I posted in General Gaming I wouldnt get to hear their feedback....Anyone's welcome to make a copy of this thread for general gaming if they want.

[Junox50]

I voted biased, plain and simple. That site is flooded with anti-playstation/sony propaganda. They try to swindle everything in their favor and lure the people who have no clue at all about what really goes on in the industry to their side. Heck, they've already compared the Xbox 360, a nearly finished console, to PS3, an unfinished console, claiming 360 is better when both arent even out to judge such matters.

I'm sure there's sites like Team Xbox that exist in the playstation realm, but that is one of the worst sites you can go to. Everything is biased and totally in Microsoft's favor.

[Phryne Astynome]

TXB has its good seeds and bad seeds but some of the administrators are absolute rubbish. "Xmun" is a rather bigoted administrator and "Cesar" is sensationalistic and idiotic. I don't expect much for video game journalism, the journalists aren't Ivy grads, but still they could have some integrity. TXB is very good in Xbox coverage but horrible in others. The site's journalism makes "IGN" look like the "Wall Street Journal". A lot of the posters there are pretty bigoted too.

[Illmatic]

This is really a no brainer, they're biased for sure.

Seeing some of the articles that come out of that place is just <_<, i find it hard to belive they even report/write articles about some of the things they've done.

If i get some free time i'll post a cuople up.


Edit:

O.k. here's one

Sony and the hype machine (http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/1136/Sony-and-The-Hype-Machine/p1/)

and another

X360 and PS3 performance comparisons (http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1160/Xbox-360-Playstation-3-Performance-Comparison/p1/)

[CrumCon]

From bottom of my heart, PSINext is the only fair site - Forum when related to next-gen console gaming, not to mention MOST of its poster.

And from bottom of my heart TeamXbox is bias as hell man. not to mention their dum fukin posters! damn! i cant believe what i was reading everytime i visit the forum.

sure you all will says "well dude you're a sony fan" .. well i am.. and i admit that.. but i hate biased reports, lies, misinformation on that forum.. makes my dick itch!

[Applefiend]

We need an option for "completely rabid".

Allard sets the tempo with his PS2 with a bullet hole in it, his unpaid groupies are right behind him. I've never seen fanboys this demented.

I cancelled my 360 preorder man, I want nothing to do with it. I love my PS2, the bullet hole was the final straw.

[Tael]

I definately think that Team Xbox are biased.

[Handycrap101]

Biased...there is no other choice...anyone who has been there knows that they are probably one of the most biased gameing sites that has a name for itself.

[rpgamer_2k5]

wow...everyone hate's Xbox here...not that I support it in any way...

*runs away from the rabid crowd*
They do? I don't know what you're talking about, but I purchased an Xbox; it sure has flaws, but it definitely has great games. Xbox 360 is definitely a must have console. However, the PS3 with the RSX and the Cell-y are more shiney. ;)

As for TeamXbox: I have never ventured onto the forum; if it's some sort of Xbox Nationalist website (poor souls...) than I certainly wouldn't like it. :)

[Yo MaMa84]

I was an active member at Teamxbox until this incident....

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/9132/PlayStation-3-GPU-More-Powerful-than-GeForce-7800/
if you read the comments you'll see the posters there wanted to lynch me.

This was the article before the massacre
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/9126/PlayStation-3-GPU-Less-Powerful-than-GeForce-7800/

there are countless more article.....but you should get my point now to see why i say they are completely baised.

they do have up-to-date news....and is a great xbox website....but the idiotic editors and childish members made me not go back there since then.

Plus i love both systems......its just that this is my third xbox that i own.....and i still have problems with...and i've owned 1 ps2 since launch.......and its still working prefectly. Get my drift?

[xbdestroya]

Ok, here's the deal.

First of all topics like this are a little dangerous I feel, because they set up the situation for cross-forum warfare. I don't want some sort of stupid feud to evolve with TeamXbox and ourselves. We have a couple of members here that are also TeamXbox members, and I feel thay are great contributers to our forum. In addition, I myself am a TXB member, and I can easily confirm that their news sotries are heavily slanted and biased. It's not just the content, but the pictures used - everything. Cesar I appreciate for his technical knowledge - that's rare in a game site admin - but his clear angle on generating traffic turns me off.

BUT, the forums - though contentious and massive and riddled with young fanboys - have a great deal of worthwhile individuals as well. For me to say that, when I can assure you my name alone causes immediate backlash from most XBox fans, means something IMO. I will also state that for information, it is the best XBox site out there.

What I really want to add though is that though I regard PSINext in general as an exemplar of how a forum should be, we have to do some good self-policing here as well. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/winksmile.gif We should be more worried about how we conduct ourselves rather than how other forums conduct themselves.

None of that M$ or XSucks stuff here - we're about discussing Playstation afterall, not knocking Microsoft or any other company's efforts for the sake of it having come from that company.

[CrumCon]

And more funny things..

Most 3rd party developers says PS3 more powerful then xbox360, but yet.. the famous TeamXbox has their own FACTS! lol

[xbdestroya]

Well, there are plenty of devs out there saying they rather code on the 360, so for the most part that's the line out of XBox studios - that the hardware is similar but the XBox actually allows them to do more. Obviously it's all PR one way or the other, but certainly each side is entitled to it.

[Darkon]

There biased as biased gets check out the Sony hype machine article it's full of untrue and twisted facts.

[tazz3]

all sites are biased in there own way

[Black Dragon37]

i was both a 360 and ps3 fan.
but now after reading about the PS3 i have come to my sencesROFLMFAO! :laugh:

I am baffed! :trismile:

[xbdestroya]

I think you should have left your post as it was actually Tazz, it was a good one, despite BlackDragon's play on the spelling. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/wink4.gif

I absolutely agree though, all sites are biased in their own way. We can only strive our hardest to give every opinion a fair shake, even if by our own admission we prefer one over another.

[Sendok]

TXB is biased just like NN, Nintendo Power, OPM etc etc etc

[xbdestroya]

Well, one difference I do notice (as others have pointed out) is that Cesar goes out of his way to post stories (or snippets of stories) in such a way as to paint the PS3 in the worst possible light. Even when he knows better - and I know he knows - he does it anyway because he knows what kinds of massive site traffic it will generate.

Which is only fair, since it is a business afterall.

So TeamXbox: Good for XBox news, not good for news on any other console.

[tazz3]

its all in good fun.

[Black Dragon37]

I think you should have left your post as it was actually Tazz, it was a good one, despite BlackDragon's play on the spelling. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/wink4.gif
I wasn't playing on the spelling - it was just the way it was executed. :)

[KiLLA2006]

ive read countless members posts, and txb articles that twist and turn the truth, and a couple of the sites members seem to be oblivious of whats actually going on with each other console other than xbox360. but hey aren't we all a little biased in one way or another?

[Domination]

I've seen countless talks from the Sony forums on many of TXB's biased editorials on next gen systems and other related items. Biased reports, lies, misinformation, etc.

Then again, I've heard a lot of positive things about Big TXB...granted not at this board.

So with that said, what are your thoughts on TeamXbox.com's coverage of Microsoft and Sony? Fair and balanced, biased, or just plain garbage?

Vote and give examples of articles and statements that showcase your point.

Although it isn't related much to PS3 discussion, I think it's still worth discussing.

Do I think Team Xbox is bias? Most definitely, but not because it's an Xbox site or whatever excuse one would like to use to claim differ, but because of the environment. When your admin isn't able to handle the situation in an intelligent manner, it really discredits the entire community.

Mods are something else worth mentioning. Some of them are just as bad as the bunch that makes the site a pain to visit. Trolling is one thing, but if you have to abuse your power every time someone disagrees with you, that doesn't really say a whole lot about your own self security. Now, I don't really browse there much at all due to the environment, but I have witness hyporcritcal behavior from those in power in relation to other individuals without. I could use an example, but not only would that stir the situation worst than it already is, but this really isn't the place to do it. I will say this, though: while one false act can be completely over-looked if favoring what one needs to hear or say, others, are most of the time, not prohibited. To be blunt about it, unnecessary flaming by selected individuals.

To get by in that place, it seems almost as if one must own or has to be on the verge of owning every platform with one of them ( :question: ) being a certainty. :eek2: Sounds a little unfair to me if you were to come across a person that isn't as fortunate. But hey, who am I to question if I choose to browse a different site, right?

What Team Xbox IS good for is news concerning the Xbox or Microsoft, but that is about as much credit as I can give it.

[Helios]

ive read countless members posts, and txb articles that twist and turn the truth, and a couple of the sites members seem to be oblivious of whats actually going on with each other console other than xbox360. but hey aren't we all a little biased in one way or another?

Actually ive never been biased one way or the other. I accept facts about hardware specifications as simply that, but I still have preferences on which games I like to play. I dont believe that makes me biased, at least not in the same way that a lot of TXB members act. And to be perfectly honest the way a lot of xbox fans period act.

Ive never stretched or warped the truth to make the PS1,2,3 better than what it is, or shot down an opposing viewpoint as "propaganda"(when actual facts were presented), or taken things extremely out of context. And from what ive seen so far no one on this site has done it either, id say were quite the tolerant group.

[woundingchaney]

Txb has its problems, but it is a great place to go to find Xbox related info. Of course their views are bias but this board has its biases as well (of course not quite to the extent of TXB). Ive had many interesting discussion at the site. The main problem with TXB is its popularity and how the site (in general), caters to that popularity. There is an over-abundance of very biased fanboys that demolish any decent discussion there (also beware of those that come off as knowledgable for they are often misleading). Overall at the site the Electronics Arena and the Other Console Discussions are very good boards to visit.


But thats just my two cents.


PS: these are really some of the best boards on the net I have found and I have posted in many of them.

[Mach]

Let me make one thing clear...As mentioned in the opening posts I made, this thread is about TeamXbox's main site media coverage, not the forums. You can't call a site biased or unfair because it's forum is filled with many unfair people or fanboys. However, you can express your disapproval when a media powerhouse uses it's huge industry role to provide misinformation, lies, and slanted information in it's stories which are seen by thousands of trusting consumers looking for honest reporting.

[Z]

who the Hell cares?
Mach
Actually there's a reason why it's in PS3 Forums...
The PSINext community stays in this forum...they dont venture anywhere else. If I posted in General Gaming I wouldnt get to hear their feedback
there is a very obvious reason for this. you need to be blind not to know why. now this is an issue that needs attention...

[Danji]

there is a very obvious reason for this. you need to be blind not to know why. now this is an issue that needs attention...
Yea, actually..I agree with that too. I post some general gaming info/threads in here sometimes on purpose to just talk to you guys. Other times I post it just in the Gamecube section to see what their oppinion is. It's a good thing that we don't leave here but it's tragic because we don't have our own general gaming section.

Not like there's anything that Mach can do about this..that I can think of anyways.


But about this thread, I care. It's annoying when sites like Gamespot or IGN post misinformation and we shouldn't be any less upset over TXB doing it. They are a site that gets huge traffic and feeds a lot of people lies.

[The_One]

Plain and simple: Everyone is biased in some way. We are all raised different, and thus like different things and think differently. I think this kind of thread is pointless... but that's just me.

[C.J.]

However, you can express your disapproval when a media powerhouse uses it's huge industry role to provide misinformation, lies, and slanted information in it's stories which are seen by thousands of trusting consumers looking for honest reporting.

First off, this was never going to be fair in the first place. Secondly, even if there was ever a chance, you wrecked it by saying this. I mean, could you lead the discussion any more obviously?

[Mach]

First off, this was never going to be fair in the first place. Secondly, even if there was ever a chance, you wrecked it by saying this. I mean, could you lead the discussion any more obviously?
Unless you're trying to imply the PSINext members are fanboys, your claim that "it would never be fair in the first place" is unfounded and based on groundless assumption. I wanted to see the opinion of the members of our PSINext section. They obviously felt strongly about the site's many problems as evident with the 60 votes for "Biased" in less than two days.

As for my statement...1. It wasn't leading the discussion. I posted it well after it was already in full gear. And 2. There is no rule against a thread maker providing his opinion on the topic. That's simply ridiculous to take shots at.


Now we're going to go back on topic: TeamXbox's coverage.

[Z]

can we know why the sudden interest on what we as a forum think of another , specific, site?

[Mach]

Because the main site of PSINext has taken interest.

[Generic Wheaties]

They're as biased as Mach at times.

edit: Bad example. IMO they're biased. There have been countless threads of just stupid articles they've posted and if something bad is predicted into the x360 they'll make some BS excuse why it can be good or something.

[Coded-Dude]

Their as biased as Mach at times.btw - THEY'RE wheaties....tehehe
DAMN now THAT is biased.......JUST KIDDNING MACH YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU! =P

Anywho, I think the young xbox fanboys in particular are generally un-informed trend followers. The younger generations have no real sense of gaming history(no offense kiddos) Not to say that other types of fanboys(sony/ninty) aren't jsut as ignorant **DUDE YOU BIASED PRICK* oh wait, nevermind...... But I have found that the older gamers tend to be more open about different platforms, and what positive features they have to offer. Maybe thats just one of those time=wisdon equations, but I guess we'd have to do further research to back up such claims.

Though I would like to pount out that in my travels across different sites, I found PSINext to be the most reputible, unbiased, knowledgable site yet. Kudos to anyone who helped make it that way!

[Z]

Because the main site of PSINext has taken interest.
hmm, what kind of interest? do I smell a conspericy here? :susp:
lol
in any case, TeamXbox is a part of IGN so they do have great sources. I did notice Xboxdy (did I get that one right?) is heading up news and having many exclusives. tha last of which is the first offical screens of Halo in DoA4.
but since they cover both Box and X2, I tend to go to a focused X2 site like TheNextBox. those guys are as fanboyish as they get but they do me a great favor; they gather all the latest X2 info with links from many other sites. that way I can read the whole thing without scouting many sites. I don't use their forums due to a past 'situation' I had with some of them.

having said all that, it is rather worring that some really dumb things get published at these site. you would think since they're big, they would have pros surving like advisors. some really stupid things went on especially after E3 when PS3 specs were revealed fore the first time. the ironic thing is that they kept changing their stories so many times it was pathetic. some articles were posted, taken off, changed, etc. a few times in a week.

PS. I wounder why IGN will devote a whole site to Box and not make one for the most successful gaming system in history of gaming which has the ovrwhelmingly larger installer base? I don't know, it just seems weird.

[Mach]

btw - THEY'RE wheaties....tehehe
DAMN now THAT is biased.......JUST KIDDNING MACH YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU! =P

Anywho, I think the young xbox fanboys in particular are generally un-informed trend followers. The younger generations have no real sense of gaming history(no offense kiddos) Not to say that other types of fanboys(sony/ninty) aren't jsut as ignorant **DUDE YOU BIASED PRICK* oh wait, nevermind...... But I have found that the older gamers tend to be more open about different platforms, and what positive features they have to offer. Maybe thats just one of those time=wisdon equations, but I guess we'd have to do further research to back up such claims.

Though I would like to pount out that in my travels across different sites, I found PSINext to be the most reputible, unbiased, knowledgable site yet. Kudos to anyone who helped make it that way!

If by biased you mean eloquent articulator of traditionalism in the world, than yes, I do have opinions and you are correct for assuming I do.

Otherwise, unlike others, I have no blind allegiance to any creed, console, company, or leader.


Regardless, we're talking about news outlet reporting...You can't call an individual biased for expressing his opinion in an appropriate opinion realm. That's just expressing an opinion, not bias. What you can consider bias is when media outlets use their powerful position to mislead readers and insert opinion into what readers believe to be objective news reports. Columns, of course are a different story all together.

[xbdestroya]

IGN bought TeamXbox if I'm not mistaken - there just simply hasn't been a site as massive as them to come along on the Playstation side of things. If there were, I have no doubt CNet or IGN would snatch them up as well.

[Z]

this is not directed to anyone but one some one says: "I am not a fanboy" you know he is. he will state that for giving an impression that he is, thus trying to avoid it.
this is generally speaking of course.

[woundingchaney]

this is not directed to anyone but one some one says: "I am not a fanboy" you know he is. he will state that for giving an impression that he is, thus trying to avoid it.
this is generally speaking of course.


I am not a fanboy.

[Danji]

Ditto.

[Coded-Dude]

I reak of biased fanboyism, or maybe thats my B.O.
*runs off to take a shower*

Actually, the only thing I am really biased towards in the gaming industry is Microsoft. I cannot stand them, and therefore never gave them a chance. I have played a few XBOX games a few times, and they were all right, but I just can't stand the company. Other than that I love Sega, Sony, Nintedno, etc., etc. I do favor playstation, but I don't think I am overly fanboyish about it, I am jsut overly evil towards MS.........

[rpgamer_2k5]

I'm a gaming fanboy. I got no love for Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo; heck, they could all go to hell if another firm can better them. Apple, Toshiba... heck, even if Lonova or say,Lockheed Martin could do it, I would care less.

However, I do get irriitated by those kids that assume that MS is able to
1. Construct fabs, by just throwing money and somehow getting full TOT by a potential competitor. o_O
2. Develop major hardware with no prior experience...
3. Manufacture hardware at rates that rival to those that develop and manufacture their components in-house.
4. Purchase Sony Corp by selling their stock. o_O

If those users didn't view MS as such a god (my cousin has such views o_o) then I would have no problem with any fanboy. In fact, since we live in such a competitive society, it is likely that those who cannot purchase several consoles would dedicate some time (on some 'foreign' board) and bash the 'enemy' console silly. It makes no sense in my opinion, but most things in the world don't. =^D

Anyhow..., right now: SvR 2006 and Dragon Warrior VIII are on my list. Somehow I will have to balance my course work with videogames. :|

Gotta love competition, though. ;)

[xbdestroya]

Well, I have to say Microsoft could achieve some world-class production levels by outsourcing their operations to certain OEM's, and it seems they're going that route this gen. XBox started out a disaster, but 360 seems to have given a lot of attention to the supply chain.

And, Microsoft's ability to develop and design hardware can get a quick boost by hiring individuals that come from that field. In fact, that's what they did. A lot of their core XBox team originally hailed from the 3DO project.

I mean I'm against the concept of Microsoft buying their way into any industry they want also - and I think in consoles they've met a match in Sony for sure - but it's hard to deny that the cash flow is an advantage for them.

That said I think Sony will be #1 again this gen. But I do respect what Microsoft is doing with 360 much more than I respected the original XBox.

[Mach]

There's no such thing as a gaming fanboy...At least in the way fanboy is now defined. Hardcore gamer? Yeah. But Gaming fanboy? Fanboy has usually implied a blind allegiance to a specific company, creed, leader, etc.

Btw, being an articulator of a game industry philosophy that happens to occasionally coincide with some things a company values does not make you a fanboy. That's an elementary, childish level of logic.

Ignorance is bliss unless you pay for it.

[rpgamer_2k5]

Well, I have to say Microsoft could achieve some world-class production levels by outsourcing their operations to certain OEM's..[...] Outsourcing development is nice, if MS is able to setup the required infastructure. However, MS will have to depend on other firms to research and then develop the technology. This ain't free, nor is ATI going to provide MS with a 100% TOT.

And, Microsoft's ability to develop and design hardware can get a quick boost by hiring individuals that come from that field. In fact, that's what they did. A lot of their core XBox team originally hailed from the 3DO project.They can purchase individuals from that field, but without the required infastructure to support such R&D, nothing major is going to happen. There is a lot more than the required manpower to develop a CPU or GPU and that is why many large firms do not venture in this market.

In a competitive market, technology can't simply be purchased, instead these firms would sell 'designs' that are in their archives. R&D never stops for Sony. The PS4 is probably in the design-phase right now. The technology in that console is going to be specifically designed for the console. MS on the other hand just can't compete; they are just going to outsource components that are 'unique'. ATI isn't going to setup an R&D house to develop future GPUs for consoles. SCEA does not only have R&D to design new technology, but also ways to drive down the costs.

That is why Sony is recieving much from IBM, Toshiba or Nvidia; they have much to offer. Even Nvidia has a common vision with Sony; it appears that the both prefer the heterogenous pipeline architecture. Nvidia is definitely going to benefit, especially if the Cell is able to put a dent on the personal market.

I mean I'm against the concept of Microsoft buying their way into any industry they want also - and I think in consoles they've met a match in Sony for sure - but it's hard to deny that the cash flow is an advantage for them.The reason why many see MS as an equal to Sony is because Sony isn't saying much. We keep forgetting that the PS2 is almost 2 years older than the Xbox; even now, the PS2 is able to keep up with the Xbox. The only reason why we see this is because Sony is a hardware giant and back then, Ken Kutaraji wanted the PS2 to be akin to an arcade system (Read his GS whitepaper). Now with MS in the market, Sony is aiming to set a new standard in gaming technology.

Cell clearly over-powers the XeCPU and the so called bottlenecks (affiliated with radical design) places the Cell above all. Wait till the RSX comes out--many are going to be upset.

In sum, Sony is a hardware giant, Microsoft isn't going to catch up overnight and MS won't even dare to provide the money. If it was so easy then many firms would have attempted to enter the CPU/GPU market. Sony would have likely entered MS's main markets, if that was the case.

That said I think Sony will be #1 again this gen. But I do respect what Microsoft is doing with 360 much more than I respected the original XBox.Don't get me wrong, I do respect Microsoft. Now Sony is going to bring more technolog to the table. Before Sony would just do half-assed job. My only gripe is the fact that Microsoft is seen as a firm that can rival a hardware giant outside their software division.

[Darkon]

I am not a fanboy.
you aren't really compared to some people on TXB or here .

[xbdestroya]

Outsourcing development is nice, if MS is able to setup the required infastructure. However, MS will have to depend on other firms to research and then develop the technology. This ain't free, nor is ATI going to provide MS with a 100% TOT.

Ok, now first of all what is TOT?

What I'm saying is that Microsoft doesn't need infrastructure if the can essentialy 'rent out' a robust infrastructure from elsewhere. TSMC is a world-class fab, and I'm sure those chinese factories Microsoft has building these things are top-notch as well.


They can purchase individuals from that field, but without the required infastructure to support such R&D, nothing major is going to happen. There is a lot more than the required manpower to develop a CPU or GPU and that is why many large firms do not venture in this market.

R&D doesn't require any sort of large support structure on the 'primary' company's side if the facilities of the ancillary players - in this case IBM and ATI - are up to the task.


In a competitive market, technology can't simply be purchased, instead these firms would sell 'designs' that are in their archives. R&D never stops for Sony. The PS4 is probably in the design-phase right now. The technology in that console is going to be specifically designed for the console. MS on the other hand just can't compete; they are just going to outsource components that are 'unique'. ATI isn't going to setup an R&D house to develop future GPUs for consoles. SCEA does not only have R&D to design new technology, but also ways to drive down the costs.

Well, Nintendo's used ATI twice now, and Xenos is probably going to be the most customized GPU of this generation, so I'm not sure what your argument is in that light.


That is why Sony is recieving much from IBM, Toshiba or Nvidia; they have much to offer. Even Nvidia has a common vision with Sony; it appears that the both prefer the heterogenous pipeline architecture. Nvidia is definitely going to benefit, especially if the Cell is able to put a dent on the personal market.

NVidia is going to benefit because:

a) lot's of money

and

b) PS3 is now OpenGl's last, greatest hope of survival in the face of Windows Vista and DX10


The reason why many see MS as an equal to Sony is because Sony isn't saying much. We keep forgetting that the PS2 is almost 2 years older than the Xbox; even now, the PS2 is able to keep up with the Xbox. The only reason why we see this is because Sony is a hardware giant and back then, Ken Kutaraji wanted the PS2 to be akin to an arcade system (Read his GS whitepaper). Now with MS in the market, Sony is aiming to set a new standard in gaming technology.

I'm not saying that Microsoft is an equal to Sony - I am saying that they've come a long way hardware-wise to where they were with the original XBox. If I were to design a console, I would have gone Microsoft's route of bringing on expert firms to field solutions for me. I have more respect for Sony's 'pushing of the envelope,' but there's a lot of risks when you do what they're doing. I think it will work out for them mind you. And it's true Microsoft has *no* other option than to do what they're doing (except for just plain buying off-the-shelf components a la XBox1), but that doesn't mean the road they've taken is a poor one.


Cell clearly over-powers the XeCPU and the so called bottlenecks (affiliated with radical design) places the Cell above all. Wait till the RSX comes out--many are going to be upset.

We just don't know enough about RSX yet - that's the only truth about RSX we have.


In sum, Sony is a hardware giant, Microsoft isn't going to catch up overnight and MS won't even dare to provide the money. If it was so easy then many firms would have attempted to enter the CPU/GPU market. Sony would have likely entered MS's main markets, if that was the case.

Don't get me wrong, I do respect Microsoft. Now Sony is going to bring more technolog to the table. Before Sony would just do half-assed job. My only gripe is the fact that Microsoft is seen as a firm that can rival a hardware giant outside their software division.

Hardware giants can go down - they do rather often. And so can software giants. Neither Sony nor Microsoft is going anywhere anytime soon, but they're both technology players and that's what matters. They're both vying for control of the living room of the future - both hardware and software will be required for that dominance, and they'll both have to play every angle they can to win - even when it comes to fighting on their oponent's stronger field of expertise.

[xbdestroya]

@Mach: I don't think RPGamer was actually calling himself a fanboy in the derrogatory way we all use it. He was just saying that gaming is what matters to him and dressing it up in the context of the current discussion.

@Darkon: I think Wounding was just kidding around. ;)

[Mach]

@Mach: I don't think RPGamer was actually calling himself a fanboy in the derrogatory way we all use it. He was just saying that gaming is what matters to him and dressing it up in the context of the current discussion.

@Darkon: I think Wounding was just kidding around. ;)
Yeah I figured Rpgamer wasnt trying to call himself a fanboy in the true sense of the word. I was just clarifying the differences in the terms.

[rpgamer_2k5]

Ok, now first of all what is TOT?

What I'm saying is that Microsoft doesn't need infrastructure if the can essentialy 'rent out' a robust infrastructure from elsewhere. TSMC is a world-class fab, and I'm sure those chinese factories Microsoft has building these things are top-notch as well.
TOT = Transfer of Technology

It's not going to be free, now is it? ;) That 'rent' is going to cost and for every unit manufactured, MS will have to 'purchase' it. In the end, MS is going to sell the components at a high price, to gain a profit. Sony won't be having this problem, hence they can be a lot more ambitious.

R&D doesn't require any sort of large support structure on the 'primary' company's side if the facilities of the ancillary players - in this case IBM and ATI - are up to the task. But IBM and ATI will not be maintaining R&D for consoles. Nor will they it be free, it's not going to be cost-effective like MS setting up a team to develop a successor to Office. On the other hand, Sony will be maintaining the R&D for the consoles, even when the PS3 is released. Much will be gained and buying technology from non-console firms is going to effectively counter this edge.

Nintendo has realized this and hence have develop new technologies that will change the way we control games. If PS4 and Xbox *720* emulates this technology next-next-gen, then expect Nintendo to come with something even better.

Well, Nintendo's used ATI twice now, and Xenos is probably going to be the most customized GPU of this generation, so I'm not sure what your argument is in that light. We'll just have to wait and see. :smoke:

NVidia is going to benefit because:

a) lot's of money

and

b) PS3 is now OpenGl's last, greatest hope of survival in the face of Windows Vista and DX10
a) It's going to be a joint-venture, both are providing. It doesn't seem like Nvidia is going to recieve a lot of money. They will recieve 'free' money, because they wouldn't have to pay for the manufacturing. However, they will not be able to sell the RSX at a high price per head to increase their profit. This deal isn't going to be as nice as the one they had with MS. It really does seem like the Sony-Nvidia joint-venture is akin to STI.

b) Exactly. OpenGL, hetergenous pipeline architecture; Nvidia wants both and Sony will provide them the chance. Releasing an RSX-like beast for the PC is going to mean much, because of the strict WGF 2.0 requirements. The PS3 does not conform to that standard. Besides, the GS was even called the "N20 killer"; Nvidia knows that Sony has much to offer and if I was in their shoes, I would want gain a competitive advantage. Sony can provide this.

Ask youself, where was David B. Kirk? He wasn't involved in the G70 dev't, what could he be doing. :smoke:

I'm not saying that Microsoft is an equal to Sony - I am saying that they've come a long way hardware-wise to where they were with the original XBox. If I were to design a console, I would have gone Microsoft's route of bringing on expert firms to field solutions for me. I have more respect for Sony's 'pushing of the envelope,' but there's a lot of risks when you do what they're doing. I think it will work out for them mind you. And it's true Microsoft has *no* other option than to do what they're doing (except for just plain buying off-the-shelf components a la XBox1), but that doesn't mean the road they've taken is a poor one. That is correct, I would have done the same if I was in MS's shoes. However, the continous R&D cycle being employed by Sony is going to provide them with an edge. There is a reason we're seeing Killzone, Motorstorm, etc. :)

We just don't know enough about RSX yet - that's the only truth about RSX we have. Hence, I'm becoming crazy. :drunk:

Hardware giants can go down - they do rather often. And so can software giants. Neither Sony nor Microsoft is going anywhere anytime soon, but they're both technology players and that's what matters. They're both vying for control of the living room of the future - both hardware and software will be required for that dominance, and they'll both have to play every angle they can to win - even when it comes to fighting on their oponent's stronger field of expertise. Obviously they do, but MS will not be the firm that will defeat Sony in a field that they are competitive in. Many will be upset; the Cell info is out, it's a beast and the RSX is going to be the same.

This doesn't mean that MS is going to be losing, it means that MS will be pressed to provide software that others cannot provide. Gaming technology has so much to do with software, MS does have the potential to take it all and so does Nintendo.

I got no doubt on both firms--the reason I'm here is because I feel that the PS3 is lacking. Sony is playing mind-games. :susp:

[CrumCon]

But months ago i read that Sony and Nvidia are going working together other then in console business. But also in other elecktronic devices.

is it true? If yes, then RSX is nothing for Nvidia (for money) but the more to come projects with sony

[Black Dragon37]

I got no doubt on both firms--the reason I'm here is because I feel that the PS3 is lacking. Sony is playing mind-games. :susp:Sony is playing mind games alright. They are obviously aware of people thinking that they won't deliver (with Microsoft leading), so are leading them on, but I get the feeling that people are getting tired of it.

The RSX specs would've been enough to keep people in Sony's mind games, but if they can't give something to keep people going, Febuary won't be as big as they think...

Sony's taking the :piss: , and it may be their downfall.

[xbdestroya]

Well, I think RSX should be plenty impressive. And if it's as impressive as it could be - then for all the lack of information we have today, I think people will instantly forgive Sony, as long as expectations are met.

[rpgamer_2k5]

But months ago i read that Sony and Nvidia are going working together other then in console business. But also in other elecktronic devices.

is it true? If yes, then RSX is nothing for Nvidia (for money) but the more to come projects with sony
Yes, Nvidia won't be recieving much money (like ATI or Nvidia with the Box) but they are surely to gain a competitive advantage for sure. Their vision is beyond the PS3 and it will involve developing new technologies for various devices. This joint-venture should be treated as STI, it's going to bring big changes. With the PS2, Sony only wanted an home-based 'arcade', but now he's even more ambitious (thanks to Microsoft). :)

[woundingchaney]

TOT = Transfer of Technology

It's not going to be free, now is it? ;) That 'rent' is going to cost and for every unit manufactured, MS will have to 'purchase' it. In the end, MS is going to sell the components at a high price, to gain a profit. Sony won't be having this problem, hence they can be a lot more ambitious.

But IBM and ATI will not be maintaining R&D for consoles. Nor will they it be free, it's not going to be cost-effective like MS setting up a team to develop a successor to Office. On the other hand, Sony will be maintaining the R&D for the consoles, even when the PS3 is released. Much will be gained and buying technology from non-console firms is going to effectively counter this edge.

Nintendo has realized this and hence have develop new technologies that will change the way we control games. If PS4 and Xbox *720* emulates this technology next-next-gen, then expect Nintendo to come with something even better.

We'll just have to wait and see. :smoke:


a) It's going to be a joint-venture, both are providing. It doesn't seem like Nvidia is going to recieve a lot of money. They will recieve 'free' money, because they wouldn't have to pay for the manufacturing. However, they will not be able to sell the RSX at a high price per head to increase their profit. This deal isn't going to be as nice as the one they had with MS. It really does seem like the Sony-Nvidia joint-venture is akin to STI.

b) Exactly. OpenGL, hetergenous pipeline architecture; Nvidia wants both and Sony will provide them the chance. Releasing an RSX-like beast for the PC is going to mean much, because of the strict WGF 2.0 requirements. The PS3 does not conform to that standard. Besides, the GS was even called the "N20 killer"; Nvidia knows that Sony has much to offer and if I was in their shoes, I would want gain a competitive advantage. Sony can provide this.

Ask youself, where was David B. Kirk? He wasn't involved in the G70 dev't, what could he be doing. :smoke:

That is correct, I would have done the same if I was in MS's shoes. However, the continous R&D cycle being employed by Sony is going to provide them with an edge. There is a reason we're seeing Killzone, Motorstorm, etc. :)

Hence, I'm becoming crazy. :drunk:

Obviously they do, but MS will not be the firm that will defeat Sony in a field that they are competitive in. Many will be upset; the Cell info is out, it's a beast and the RSX is going to be the same.

This doesn't mean that MS is going to be losing, it means that MS will be pressed to provide software that others cannot provide. Gaming technology has so much to do with software, MS does have the potential to take it all and so does Nintendo.

I got no doubt on both firms--the reason I'm here is because I feel that the PS3 is lacking. Sony is playing mind-games. :susp:


I dont see the lack of an R&D development really that much of a cost to MS. R and D is often a very expensive venture, but it does have its pluses as well (as you mentioned). MS really has the ability to "shop" around for the technology and products they put into their harware which is often an advantage. Where as it is more costly for MS to go into these joint ventures they dont have the same overhead as Sony (in that instance).

Really, Im still somewhat skeptical as to the overall effectiveness of the cell (as Im sure you all are aware), but I cannot and wouldnot demean its strong points. As far as the RSX, Nvidia is known for quality and Im sure it will follow suit.

I personally cannot see Nin's new controller being excepted in teh world wide market, but I may be wrong. If in fact it does turn out successful then I expect Nin to stay a foot ahead in ingenuity.

But for the most part an excellent post RPG. :spiny:

As far as OpenGL, the PS3 is probably the last hoorah for the format, but at the same time, its one hell of a strong suit for both Nvidia and Sony (with Nvidia producing superior OpenGL cards).

[Z]

I personally cannot see Nin's new controller being excepted in teh world wide market, but I may be wrong. If in fact it does turn out successful then I expect Nin to stay a foot ahead in ingenuity.
actually, the simplicity of the controller will be very attractive to non-gamers and casual gamers alike. If ninty can secure an acceptable flow of good games (1st and 3rd party) and a good usage of the controller, I see them as playing a major role next gen. the potential numbers of non-gamers is extremely attractive.

[woundingchaney]

actually, the simplicity of the controller will be very attractive to non-gamers and casual gamers alike. If ninty can secure an acceptable flow of good games (1st and 3rd party) and a good usage of the controller, I see them as playing a major role next gen. the potential numbers of non-gamers is extremely attractive.


What will non gamers be doing with the controller? I mean from what little we know is that the Rev is based sheerly around gaming (no other additional functionality, other than of course the ability to play movies, and in that case just how important is the controller). I do admit there is a market for the controller but as to the effect and overall pentration of that market Im not willing to bet on. Really I think it is a novel approach, but at the same time I dont see people picking the controller up and being utterly amazed either. Such a drastic change has the potential to negate as much as draw the fanbase to the Rev. Im going to have to wait and see this one out, I have hopes for the best, but still I cant see it being overly useful for general gaming.

[Domination]

Well, I have to say Microsoft could achieve some world-class production levels by outsourcing their operations to certain OEM's, and it seems they're going that route this gen. XBox started out a disaster, but 360 seems to have given a lot of attention to the supply chain.

And, Microsoft's ability to develop and design hardware can get a quick boost by hiring individuals that come from that field. In fact, that's what they did. A lot of their core XBox team originally hailed from the 3DO project.

I mean I'm against the concept of Microsoft buying their way into any industry they want also - and I think in consoles they've met a match in Sony for sure - but it's hard to deny that the cash flow is an advantage for them.

That said I think Sony will be #1 again this gen. But I do respect what Microsoft is doing with 360 much more than I respected the original XBox.

Well, that is why I see Microsoft as a company of undeniable strength than a company of experience and innovation. They usually roll over their competition by out-spending them before out-thinking them.

[Domination]

I'm a gaming fanboy. I got no love for Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo; heck, they could all go to hell if another firm can better them. Apple, Toshiba... heck, even if Lonova or say,Lockheed Martin could do it, I would care less.

However, I do get irriitated by those kids that assume that MS is able to
1. Construct fabs, by just throwing money and somehow getting full TOT by a potential competitor. o_O
2. Develop major hardware with no prior experience...
3. Manufacture hardware at rates that rival to those that develop and manufacture their components in-house.
4. Purchase Sony Corp by selling their stock. o_O

If those users didn't view MS as such a god (my cousin has such views o_o) then I would have no problem with any fanboy. In fact, since we live in such a competitive society, it is likely that those who cannot purchase several consoles would dedicate some time (on some 'foreign' board) and bash the 'enemy' console silly. It makes no sense in my opinion, but most things in the world don't. =^D

Anyhow..., right now: SvR 2006 and Dragon Warrior VIII are on my list. Somehow I will have to balance my course work with videogames. :|

Gotta love competition, though. ;)


Exactly! Money is good and sometimes great, but money isn't everything, and this is something most fanboys seems to be misled by. It takes many resources, time, and the proper team to pull such a thing off, and frankly, Sony is a firm under that umbrella. Microsoft is only posing themselves as a hardware competitor, but in essense, they are still a software supplier. Similiar to my analogy used before, just because you are a swimmer does not automatically pronouce you as a fish. The one possessing the 'know-how' will most of the time have something more competitive.

[Glacier]

Out-spending before out-thinking isn't good for them, at least, not all the time.
Anyway what happened to the fanboyism subject?

[Domination]

Out-spending before out-thinking isn't good for them, at least, not all the time.
Anyway what happened to the fanboyism subject?

We did go off topic, didn't we? http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/icon10-2.gif

[xbdestroya]

We did go off topic, didn't we? http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/icon10-2.gif

Well, the old topic was suspect. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/cool4.gif

Was thinking of locking the thread out, but as long as some useful conversation is taking place, might as well keep it around, off-topic though it might be.

[Z]

What will non gamers be doing with the controller? I mean from what little we know is that the Rev is based sheerly around gaming (no other additional functionality, other than of course the ability to play movies, and in that case just how important is the controller). I do admit there is a market for the controller but as to the effect and overall pentration of that market Im not willing to bet on. Really I think it is a novel approach, but at the same time I dont see people picking the controller up and being utterly amazed either. Such a drastic change has the potential to negate as much as draw the fanbase to the Rev. Im going to have to wait and see this one out, I have hopes for the best, but still I cant see it being overly useful for general gaming.
amd you misses the whole point. ;)

by non-gamers AND light gamers (casual?) a simplistic control scheme will be easier for them to get into gaming, thus attracting new blood. the potential numbers of new to-be-gamers using a very simple 'remote' seems to be greater than having these non-gamers confused by deep controlls as with Dual Shock 3 playing MGS4.

now I do agree with you that this 'potential' easiness may still be not enough for them to succeed. and I also agree with you that this is still a concept. it may fail miserably in practice. I simply say that a very simple controle scheme with such a recognizable apperence (remote) combined with a relitively cheap system does have an attractiveness to new users (non-gamers and casuals alike).

to point out, I repeat my self by saying the Rev needs a standard controller for back up. I suspect the Cube controller will be re-used.

[nemesis121]

Asking a Question about Xbox sites being bias on a site that's basically full with Sony Fans, is like sitting there asking your mother how she felt about you getting 100 on your history exam, you know she will tell that she's proud of you and she happy, but you being a spoil brat you just want to here her say I am proud of you over and over.

One more thing who cares about power? I don't, I may not get next gen system until they are at least 3 years into there life span, I am not a big fan of gaming right now, to me I haven't been impressed by next gen as far as games is concerned, I am impressed by all the techincal stuff, but beyond that it looks like we will get the same crap they been pushing down our throat for the pass 10 years.

[Mach]

This thread has served it's purpose for PSINext.com. Thanks for all those who participated.

Im glad you guys have shown such enthusiastic concern for the issue...79 of you came out in about 3 days' worth of time to vote your opinion on the matter.