The controller: long-term problems?

[tonic]

I love the new controller. I think it has the potential to permanently change the way we play games for the better.
That being said, I can't help but feel that Nintendo has shot themselves in the foot by taking the innovation route rather than the traditional. It's the same problem that I've noticed with the DS, as well.
What's happening with DS games is that the best games (read: Advance Wars, Castlevania) don't need the innovations the hardware brings. At all. Sure, there are great games like Kirby and Meteos, but those ideas were founded with the hardware itself. Developers are opting to just port console games with some very basic touch control, and a useless second screen function, and totally missing out on the potential the DS brings to the table. But that has been discussed to death, right? So why bother beating a dead horse; let developers do what they want.
My main concern is what, excactly, Nintendo is planning on doing for their successors to the DS and the Revolution. As many of you know, Nintendo announced they aren't discontinuing the Game Boy franchise, which features traditional control methods - ie: face and shoulder buttons. So after the DS, a GB2 might come. But isn't that contradictory to their "innovation is better" philosophy? Let's assume Nintendo goes ahead and makes a DS2. What could they possibly add? Better graphics and speakers? Longer battery? Hell, the PSP has done that. This is a problem that will come back to bite them in the ass in a few years, once the PSP2 is announced.
The same scenario can be applied to the Revolution. What will happen after about 5 years? Will there be a Revolution 2? Will it feature ANOTHER revolution to gaming? It's been just over 20 years of this control method and there are still some wicked control schemes and ideas being thought up (read: Katamari Damacy), so likely it will take the same time period for the full potential of the Revolution to be used. But then what? Virtual reality seems like the next logical step, but are gamers ready for that sort of thing; total immersion can really mess some people up.

Bah, I'll stop ranting. I need to study for Calculus.

[henryhund]

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but making your argument is like saying that we should never progress because in the future we will have nothing left to improve.

Nintendo will think of something. And if they don't, well, they surely will continue to make great games. And if they don't, well, there won't be a Nintendo anymore. But I'm sure that won't happen.

[AntiRealityHero]

I fail to see how it wouldn't work.

You say Nintendo is 'shooting themselves in the foot by drastically changing the control scheme. By straying from the standard of the industry, they may achieve quick success, but what about the long-term viability of the idea? Surely such innovation cannot be topped even by the company that made it.'

Which is where you contradict yourself. What if Nintendo did stay with the current control schemes and generational increase of hardware specs? That path seems to lead to a dead end MUCH faster than this new path Nintendo has created. What will the successor to the PS3 and Xbox 360 bring to the table? According to both Sony and Microsoft, we are going to max out the graphic capabilities of SD [and if Sony is to be believed, even HD] TVs. What happens then? Bigger hard drives? More controllers?

I'd say that if the Revolution and DS do anything for Nintendo, they will create consumer mindshare. Then, Nintendo can try something new, and the consumer will go, "Hey, this is the company that made the [Revolution/DS], maybe I'll give this a try."

[Michael]

Everyone thought that the Ds would only last in the short term, but the more time goes on, it's just getting better...I'll just leave it at that.

[OutlawAdidas]

I'll say this, I didn't know where gaming would go. Ofcourse new tech and better graphics would occur, but I didn't know how gameplay would change. I believed that it would stay the same. Now, Nintendo has done something amazing and I and I am in awe. They have ideas. Thats all we need

[tonic]

You are all misunderstanding me. My worry isn't that the Revolution is a bad idea - by all means its a much better idea than just upgrading graphics - but rather what will the system after it be? Will it be another innovative console or just a perfection of the system, like SNES was to NES and GCN was to N64.
My worry is that by calling themselves the "innovative" company, they've got to deliver each and every time with a new gimmick to get game designers to take notice. I have no doubts that they won't find something new to put into the system, but eventually these "revolutions" will become unnecessary.
Eventually, the ultimate gaming system - total immersion, virtual reality - will be released. Where can Nintendo go from there if their competition begins to copy their ideas, and catches up to them?

None of this is a cohesive argument. I'm just ranting on three hours of sleep and no dinner.

[Z]

I think the Rev controll isn't going to be the default one. my guess is that they will use the Cube's as default/back-up. with that said, the 'remote' looks promising. Ninty is going for simplicity to attract new consumers. the problem is what will you do with a game that needs sophesticated controlls and lots of buttons ala Splinter Cell, PoP, PES, etc.? that is when I see the Cube's controller coming into place. I don't see a need to design yet another controller to replace it.

[Mathx]

I'm guessing by saying that they are still continuing the GameBoy franchise means that they weren't going to burn all of thier bridges yet...this was before the DS came out...with the success of it, Nintendo believes that innovation is a way to go...so the Next Gameboy could very well be innovative...

[Vishus]

You don't have all the info you need. After the GBA the next GB was to come out. The next GB was basically a portable GCN, but because of certain reasons (probably they predicted problems the PSP has right now) they gave us the DS, an idea they had as a portable with N64 equivalent power during the N64's life. The only other info is that the next GB is totally seperate from the DS. Think of it this way when the Revolution comes out we'll have tech to deal with the current problems of a portable with GCN power and when the system after Rev comes out we'll have a portable with Rev power and so on. How do you know that the next GB might be continuation of the DS and the GBA in one system?

Compared to the other two controllers the Rev is only losing 1-2 buttons and that still doesn't count as a loss seeing as there are more we don't know about. There are a lot of things out there we can use in games but we are waiting for someone to actually do it. Sony had the same control setup for 5 controllers and 4 systems. MS could at least give us a mosue and keyboard. We're playing FPS here!

Things I'm thinking of they could put in gaming but I'm waiting.

-Novint! (i know you forgot about that)
-DS touchscreen that is more like a wacom tablet and pen
-VR (i'd like to move my head to my side and look at something else while still pointing my weapon at the enemy)
-control sensitivity (temperature, pressure, rubbing, etc)
-rumble resistance
-getting rid of a right joystick and d-pad on the left side
-better use of voice (Hey You Pikachu concept hasn't really been used and it could have really been used)
-scrolls (simple and much better for changing weapons than removing a finger off a movement device) using the d-pad was dangerous!

[Z]

-rumble resistance
-getting rid of a right joystick and d-pad on the left side

what do you mean by the first one?

for the second, the d-pad is still used and in some games that require high precision, they are better than analog sticks any day.

I generally agree on the rest of your points.

[Michael]

Rumble resistance, or forced feedback, they're both the same, you feel resistance of your controller compare to a mild rumbling.

[frag.exe]

they could make us feel hot and cold in games.they could add smell.in the 90s nintendo had this thing that made smells.egm did a review on it. i wonder what happen to it?

[speed stick]

To tell you the truth, I'm not worrying about Nintendo's next console, I just want to know what the Revolution is going to be capable of. Its not like we are going to know anything about the console after the Revolution for atleast 4 years. And then the details will be very slight.

[HolyPaladin]

You are all misunderstanding me. My worry isn't that the Revolution is a bad idea - by all means its a much better idea than just upgrading graphics - but rather what will the system after it be? Will it be another innovative console or just a perfection of the system, like SNES was to NES and GCN was to N64.
My worry is that by calling themselves the "innovative" company, they've got to deliver each and every time with a new gimmick to get game designers to take notice. I have no doubts that they won't find something new to put into the system, but eventually these "revolutions" will become unnecessary.
Eventually, the ultimate gaming system - total immersion, virtual reality - will be released. Where can Nintendo go from there if their competition begins to copy their ideas, and catches up to them?

None of this is a cohesive argument. I'm just ranting on three hours of sleep and no dinner.

I don't think Nintendo really needs to totally change everything about how we play games every time they bring out a new platform. As you've mentioned, SNES just improved on what the NES was already doing and the GameCube improved on what the N64 was already doing. They haven't completely revolutionized everything at every step along the way, and they really aren't going to be expected to bring out a gaming revolution with every new handheld or console.

Will they do things a bit differently every time? Surely, as that's Nintendo's way. Will it completely change everything? Once in a while, but not with every new platform they offer. Heck, we've seen a series of Game Boys that have largely just been improvements on the previous model, but nobody really complained. The Game Boy Pocket improved upon the original by being smaller and with a better screen. Then came the GB Color, which was still basically a GB but slightly more powerful and being able to display the games in color. Then we finally came to the first true successor, the GBA, and then it saw updates in the form of the GBA SP and then GB Micro. Nobody's complaining that they haven't brought us a revolution with every new unit because we're not expecting every move to be a revolution. Once in a while is good enough.

[MicVlaD]

Tonic, you kind of answered your own question, like Holy_Paladin already pointed out. Nintendo won't reïnvent the wheel (like Viper would put it) with the Revolution 2, they'd rather keep the base of the platform and upgrade it on almost every aspect. The same would happen with the DS 2. As for the GBA 2: it'll be a direct competitor of the PSP and will be a more traditional handheld. After all, Nintendo did claim numerous times that the DS is their third pillar.

Finally, a small estimate of each platform's launch years:

2006: Revolution
2007 - 2008: GBA 2
2008 - 2009: DS 2
2009 - 2010 - 2011: Revolution 2

[Phoenix]

I think the successor of the DS will be increased in power, graphics, sound, battery life, etc. Sure, it's not an innovative change, but does Nintendo really need to add MORE innovation to an already innovative handheld? There's only so much you can have before it's the video game equivalent of Bop It Xtreme. The DS's control setup will have uses being created for it long after its time is up, so why not continue it? The Revolution might do many different things depending on its success.

[D3adcell]

You can tell rare all you want, they are owned by microsoft though.

[Z]

why call it 'Revolution 2'? to be clear, Rev is still the code name. like Dolphin and Xenon it may very well change. just to note out. I would use N5, N6, etc. but that's just me.

[dead718]

I defintitely think that Nintendo's path goes a lot further than Sony and M$'s. They'll have to start innovating sometime in the next 5 years, or they'll run into a wall.

[Danji]

Sorry to be that guy, but to the first poster:

For the love of god, and all that is holy, please parse your freaking posts next time. I read everyone's post but your's.

[MicVlaD]

why call it 'Revolution 2'? to be clear, Rev is still the code name. like Dolphin and Xenon it may very well change. just to note out. I would use N5, N6, etc. but that's just me.Nintendo DS also used to be a codename, but due to the popularity of the name among press and consumers when the system was unveiled, they decided to keep it. Considering the fact it's currently practically the same situation for the Revolution, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept this codename as well.

[speed stick]

^And by all means, theres nothing worng with keeping the code name if it suits the console.

[Vishus]

Codename = Developer Screen

Real Name = Dual Screen

The DS name did change it's just that the initials stayed the same.

We haven't even heard the name they intended for it.

[MicVlaD]

Codename = Developer Screen

Real Name = Dual Screen

The DS name did change it's just that the initials stayed the same.

We haven't even heard the name they intended for it.From the start, DS had two meanings, which Reggie only unveiled during E3 2004: being Dual Screen and Developers System. So the codename did in fact stay the same. :-)

[Z]

you missed the point. I am not talking about Rev, I am talking about the one after that. some said Rev2 which doesn't sound right. until they give it any kind of reference, why not simply call it N6 for example? since every resent console has a totally different name, it is better to use the company's name. if not, I could say Cube 2. about handhelds, should I say GBA2 or DS2? I rather say GB2 or GBA2 since the name 'game boy' can be synonymous with Ninty handhelds.

in any case, this isn't a big deal, just something that cought my eye.

[dead718]

I personally, would like the name, revolution, to stay. As speedstick says, it fits the console perfectly.