PSM magazine (UK) Heads-up: New PS3 Details!?! [Archive]

Nerve-Damage

11-24-2005, 08:03 AM

One of our UK friends (if any) here...please keep us posted when this issue arrives. :)

Credit: Steroyd & Organic_Shadow (http://www.ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9614)

well at least i thought it'd tell me everything i already knew about the PS3 only that next months issue is supposed to have:

PS3
Launch games!
Hardware Secrets!
Price and Date!

now i don't know if they're doing that to get me to buy next months issue, but seeing as it's a Playstation magazine... what do they know i don't?

Yeah the British PSM is supposed to have these details so there might be an event planned between now, and December 15th (when next issue gets released).

Just thought i'd give people the heads up, because releasing information this month would sort of make sense, because MS released their pricing and release date info in August which was 4 months before launch. How december is to Spring (i.e March).

You think the magazine is conning me into buying next months issue or do you think Sony will release this type of information in december?

"(word bubble: NEXT ISSUE:) Buckle up, 'cause 2006 is gonna be a wild ride for Playstation fans, and it starts NEXT ISSUE! What's next in the evolution of PSP? What's left for PS2 gamers to look forward to? And what's the deal with EVERYTHING regarding Playstation 3? Until now we've had mostly questions, but next month we start getting some serious ANSWERS with the help of the world's top game makers. Playstation Preview 2006 hits in just four weeks! (big spikey word bubble says: SEE YOU IN JUST 30 DAYS!)

-------------------------------Off Topic-------------------------------------------

There is a Playstation Festival I believe on December 8th.

Any truth to this? :err: :)

Ocelot9

11-24-2005, 09:10 AM

Oh Please, Oh Please, Oh Please

woundingchaney

11-24-2005, 09:11 AM

Yes it would definetely be time for Sony to release some info.

n1n9tean

11-24-2005, 09:52 AM

I'd be very excited to know what will be available at launch for PS3 as opposed to 360's uninteresting (IMO of course) list of games.

New hardware secrets is automatically something to pop a vain over.......

As far as price and date goes it doesn't really matter to me. We already know it will be under $400. So, we already know we'll be getting a great deal no matter what the exact price is (bundled games, music, movies, TV PLUS it's a BD player...I say no more). The date, for me, could come sooner or later. I'm indifferent. The PS2 still has a green health bar with FFXII coming up and so on.... But it's always good to have more info so if they know the release date I'd be happy to hear that too.

Ocelot9

11-24-2005, 10:57 AM

kaphwan

11-24-2005, 11:36 AM

The PS2 still has a green health bar with FFXII coming up and so on.... But it's always good to have more info so if they know the release date I'd be happy to hear that too.

What an appropriate metaphor.

PS. What are the odds that xbox360 fails to surpass the ps2 in overall sales?

O.D.S

11-24-2005, 11:47 AM

VG Aficionado

11-24-2005, 11:55 AM

Yeah duga10. They might just announce a price cut for PS2, PSP or both, and nothing else. No major announcements from Sony until the Xmas shopping season is over. I wonder if the 360 will be able to sell more than PS2 and/or PSP this Xmas.

PS. What are the odds that xbox360 fails to surpass the ps2 in overall sales?PS2 must be very near to 100 million units sold in less than 6 years, and I'd say it could still sell up to 120 million before Sony discontinues it...

xbdestroya

11-24-2005, 12:36 PM

Me personally, im not sure if there will release any big news until next year since the Christmas holiday shopping spree has just started and Sony would sure like to sell PS2's, PSP's and games in abundnance, not get us hyped over PS3.

I agree, the language used in that 'upcoming issue' blurb says to me: "we're going to speculate and get some general dev comments on the hardware..."

I'd say with CES as close as it is, it's realistic to think it will be around then that we get the 'real' info we've been waiting for.

@kaphwan: On the question of whether PS2/PSP will sell more than 360 (this year?), I have no doubt that they will outstrip sales of the 360 this Christmas. There aren't even enough 360's being sold to mount a challenge in that regard.

woundingchaney

11-24-2005, 01:26 PM

What an appropriate metaphor.

PS. What are the odds that xbox360 fails to surpass the ps2 in overall sales?

I would be surprised if any of the next gen consoles come close to the PS2's sales.

cybergrue

11-24-2005, 02:50 PM

This is a print magazine right? Don't magazines like this usually get printed several weeks ahead of time to allow for bulk shipping. If this is the case, then they already have the information (or hoped to when the preview was printed). This means they either had info directly from Sony, or they are speculating using already avaliable information. I'm not familiar with this mag, so does anyone know if they have done this type of "Official Release" reporting before?

Handycrap101

11-24-2005, 03:07 PM

I seriously DOUBT we will get anything new that be don't know. One of the reasons being, it's PSM. Almost everything I read in there I could have found out before the issue was published, and most of the BIG cover stories with things involving big hype around...they just repeat whats been said. Oh, also in the US November 2005 issue they had things like "PLAYSTATION 3 UNCOVERED!; Only PSM has the INSIDE DIRT!", "PS3 ONLINE; Sony's plan to beat Xbox Live", "SECRET LAUNCH DATE; It could be sooner than you thought!", "PS3 GAMES; MGS4, GTA4, Fight Night Round 3. Def Jam 3, and more! Exclusive Details!"

Despite all of these eye catching claims on the cover, once I read the magazine I found nothing new that I hadn't already learned from here and various other forums. So with that said, don't count on anything big from this magazine.

Sephiroth_VII

11-24-2005, 03:18 PM

Agreed, the only game magazine, that i buy, is EDGE.

WolfWooD

11-24-2005, 05:07 PM

#12 FIght night round 3 is announced on the Xbox360 right ? or is it 2 that is comming on it ?

Domination

11-24-2005, 05:34 PM

One of our UK friends (if any) here...please keep us posted when this issue arrives. :)

Credit: Steroyd & Organic_Shadow (http://www.ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=9614)

-------------------------------Off Topic-------------------------------------------

Any truth to this? :err: :)

Price? No. Specs? Probably. But I don't expect a full unveiling of them until after Christmas, probably even at an electronics show or something since that's pretty much where the tech boys will be camping out. Everything else sounds about right, though.:)

tazz3

11-24-2005, 05:37 PM

I really hope Sony tells us something. and fast to.
I hope sony is not rushing the PS3 to the market
they only started to get the final dev kits out.
so that leaves dec to march. to make the games final and run smooth.

KiLLA2006

11-24-2005, 05:42 PM

I think they may announce some of the more tech heavy details, seeing as how it'll hit forums for all the hardcores... while the less tech savvy will pay no attention:dur:

Nerve-Damage

11-24-2005, 06:50 PM

they only started to get the final dev kits out.

Not quite yet, Mid-December is the speculated time release for the “PS3 Reference Tool”. Which is an odd name within itself………….. :sleepy:

Edit: IMO…I believe those Dev-kits (PS3 Reference Tool) aren’t quite the final ones. I believe the final ones will be fine tuned to spec (around March 2006), while the PS3 Reference Tool is a step or so below the final ones (nothing really major thoe).

TEEDA

11-24-2005, 07:36 PM

Heavenly sword should be revealed before next year, the front page had a picture where it was written something that the game should be revealed soon before 2006 or something.But the pic was removed and the site came back to normal.
here is the pic :
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2491/index6zh.jpg

http://www.ninjatheory.com/blinkblink/images/stories/hsscreens/hs_e3-2005_08.jpg
(- Edited by stanDarsh - picture is way too large, use thumbnails for large pictures from now on! )

The in-game footage ran to 75 % the power of the PS3 (alpha kit).
I suppose the game has improved , wow ! 1080p. yeah real time , yeah there are jaggies , but can't wait to see more of this game.
The games Ia m looking forward are, DMC 4 , MGS 4 , Tekken , killzone and heavenly sword.
for those who haven't read yet here is the official site and the diary :

http://www.ninjatheory.com/blinkblink/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=52
Source (http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=72901)

Handycrap101

11-24-2005, 08:06 PM

I've never seen that picture before... I must say it's breathtaking.

Sephiroth_VII

11-24-2005, 08:23 PM

oh my god...
Thats amazing!!
Who cares about jaggies, this is 1080p people!!!

Nerve-Damage

11-24-2005, 08:34 PM

http://www.ninjatheory.com/blinkblink/images/stories/hsscreens/hs_e3-2005_10.jpg

( - Edited by stanDarsh - Same applies here, picture is way too big! )

I love the back view :birthday:

VG Aficionado

11-24-2005, 08:39 PM

oh my god...
Thats amazing!!
Who cares about jaggies, this is 1080p people!!!1080p won't get games rid of jaggies, just to let you know. Although I'm not sure if you're implicitly meaning the contrary.

I don't know if the final version will be 1080p, since I believe this trailer was a "pre-rendered" one too. However, I hope it could be the first 1080p PS3 game.

TEEDA

11-24-2005, 08:40 PM

It's one of the no asian games that i 'm looking forward too with killzone.
I always found japanese games better looking and better designed than european or american games from eastern developpers.
But this is an exception with killzone.

TEEDA

11-24-2005, 08:43 PM

Nerve-Damage

11-24-2005, 08:59 PM

1080p won't get games rid of jaggies, just to let you know. Although I'm not sure if you're implicitly meaning the contrary.

I don't know if the final version will be 1080p, since I believe this trailer was a "pre-rendered" one too. However, I hope it could be the first 1080p PS3 game.

Actually this is one of many games that are (rumored) to be running at 1080p on PS3 Alpha Dev-Kits.
*Heavenly Sword
*EYEdentify
*WarDevil
*Killing Day
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614780/killing-day-20050516072119389.jpg

And by the way guys 1080p isn’t that hard anymore per-se, using just one of my two 7800 GTX produces a whopping 80FPS (steady) for FarCry at 1920x1080 at full settings. SLI mode produces about 135FPS (steady) at full settings. And we all know the RSX is far more powerful than a single 7800GTX, probably on par with a SLI setup. Then you factor in the Cell…….Hell, we’re talking about enough bandwidth, rendering, ECT…to make 1080p pretty standard on the PS3.

Handycrap101

11-24-2005, 09:04 PM

Is Killing Day a PS3 exclusive?? All of these pictures are making me remember how many awesome looking games were shown at E3.

Nerve-Damage

11-24-2005, 09:08 PM

Is Killing Day a PS3 exclusive?? All of these pictures are making me remember how many awesome looking games were shown at E3.

Yes...as of now!! :)

VG Aficionado

11-24-2005, 09:11 PM

And by the way guys 1080p isn’t that hard anymore per-se, using just one of my two 7800 GTX produces a whopping 80FPS (steady) for FarCry at 1920x1080 at full settings. SLI mode produces about 135FPS (steady) at full settings. And we all know the RSX is far more powerful than a single 7800GTX, probably on par with a SLI setup. Then you factor in the Cell…….Hell, we’re talking about enough bandwidth, rendering, ECT…to make 1080p pretty standard on the PS3.Sounds great. By the way, which CPU do you have?

Anyway, taking a look at Killing Day's picture, it could need 8x AF for greater sharpness (look at the blurry ground). We don't really need more than 60FPS, or even not more than 30FPS in some cases if we could obtain greater sharpness. I wonder if that old rumour will be true, the one that stated we would be able to set the picture quality of some games at the expense of a high framerate or some details.

TEEDA

11-24-2005, 09:14 PM

Heavenly sword was indeed in realtime , a developer (deanoc) from Ninja theory ,who is a member of Beyond3d confirmed it :

Deanoc said:

The main combat sequence of HS E3 demo was largely real-time (largely in the sense that we still have slow downs due to unoptimsied code, for example the first time an effect is triggered, we get a stall as something loads. Obviously the final version we have it pre-loaded etc.) ... The army scene was the slow bit.

Just so its absolutely clear, the main fight sequences seen in the HS E3 trailer (bar a bit of post-processing) are playable in real-time now. When you see the fight in HS, your seeing the actual in-game footage in real-time

The graphical quality is also likely to go up quite considerable before release...
.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24829&highlight=heavenly+sword

Nerve-Damage

11-24-2005, 09:16 PM

Sounds great. By the way, which CPU do you have? AMD FX-57 in my first rig (the second rig is in the making :heybaby: )

Anyway, taking a look at Killing Day's picture, it could need 8x AF for greater sharpness (look at the blurry ground).

Motion Blurr used...watch the ign video you'll see!! :crazy:

Edit: Thanks for the heads up TEEDA :)

VG Aficionado

11-24-2005, 09:17 PM

Heavenly sword was indeed in realtime , a developer (deanoc) from Ninja theory ,who is a member of Beyond3d confirmed it:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24829&highlight=heavenly+swordGood thing I was wrong :spiny:

Motion Blurr used...watch the ign video you'll see!! :crazy:Actually, I don't think that blurry ground has anything to do with motion blur. It's the same thing that happens in e.g. Far Cry or any other FPS game when AF is not activated or it's below 8x or higher. In that case that "blurriness" becomes noticeable.

Anyway, I'll take a look at Killing Day and Heavenly Sword videos in a while :) I've got some direct feeds here somewhere.

Nerve-Damage

11-24-2005, 09:25 PM

Actually, I don't think that blurry ground has anything to do with motion blur. It's the same thing that happens in e.g. Far Cry or any other FPS game when AF is not activated or it's below 8x or higher. In that case that "blurriness" becomes noticeable.

Ahhh you said blurry ground...I thought you said or meant blurry back ground :uhh:

I'll take another look at the video myself...........

Edit: Here's a link guys if you need a refresher: Killing Day (http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1680)

Edit 2: Judging from the trailer I really can't say there's a floor issue (background floor issue), however the game play is defiantly real-time and looking pretty cool at the moment. Needs a little AA, however this is a early build we’re talking about.

WolfWooD

11-25-2005, 12:04 AM

Im mostely looking forward to if Sony can get the Project off set on the Ps3 would be so sweet o_O

And im still waiting for a trailer from the next gen ff not VII heh.

And what they can do whit the gt for Ps3 Always doing insane things whit that game imo

Heinrich4

11-25-2005, 07:24 PM

oh my god...
Thats amazing!!
Who cares about jaggies, this is 1080p people!!!

we would have to worry with "jaggies" with this level of resolution?

(i think it not )

CrumCon

11-25-2005, 07:32 PM

The dots are so small that jaggie wouldnt even exist no more.

VG Aficionado

11-25-2005, 07:51 PM

The dots are so small that jaggie wouldnt even exist no more.You don't get rid of jaggies just because of 1080p resolution or higher.

Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist-Shannon_sampling_theorem)

Nerve-Damage

11-25-2005, 09:04 PM

Well you're both are right and wrong at the same time. The higher the screen resolution be it from a HDTV set based of Plasma, LCD, DLP, or LCOS technology the screen will produce a pseudo-like Anti Aliasing effect. The higher the resolution the smaller or tighter the pixel becomes, reducing (not all) the jaggedness of a pronounce object (which the pixel makes up). The small or tighter the pixels are brought together, the less obvious look of jagged edges. However, it doesn’t mean the “jagged edges” of the objects (made of pixels) don’t exist anymore because of the higher resolution (480p Vs 720p Vs 1080p), it’s just less pronounced to the eyes because of the tighter pixel combination associated with higher resolution settings (viewing distance is also an factor).

Also the amount of pixels a TV set can provide during a given resolution is also a major factor. Example: A HDTV with 1080p scan that cost $2,000 doesn’t make it equal to say a $7,800 1080p HDTV. Besides the obvious factors like name brand, manufacturing cost, and ECT… (That would contribute to the higher price set). It’s the pixel detail (or amount of pixels) that would/will contribute too the higher cost. The more pixels the TV set can produce (especially at the higher resolutions) the less perception (or recognizable) jagged edges being shown.

In my opinion (and most others) what you can do in one resolution setting, you may not have to do in another. Example: You may need 4xAA for a certain game at 1280x720 setting, but you may not need the 4xAA setting (opting for 2xAA instead) at 1920x1080 because the higher resolution made the pixels smaller or tighter (or both) giving the perception or effect that 4xAA is being used.

VG Aficionado

11-25-2005, 09:29 PM

I'd basically agree with you, Nerve-Damage, but I'd also say there are more benefits than the disappearance of jagged edges when AA is used.

kaphwan

11-25-2005, 11:49 PM

PS2 must be very near to 100 million units sold in less than 6 years, and I'd say it could still sell up to 120 million before Sony discontinues it...

That's quite a task for M$ to match, I think.

@kaphwan: On the question of whether PS2/PSP will sell more than 360 (this year?), I have no doubt that they will outstrip sales of the 360 this Christmas. There aren't even enough 360's being sold to mount a challenge in that regard.

Wasn't what I was asking, but thanks anyway. How long did it take before PS2's monthly sales outdid PlayStation... then a similar trend could be expected happening this gen.

Killing Day, Killzone 3, all these potential halo-smiters that have names to do with killing... heh.

Ducey

11-26-2005, 12:23 AM

We don't really need more than 60FPS, or even not more than 30FPS in some cases if we could obtain greater sharpness.

NEG! Oh my god I cannot stress how important framerate is!! I believe someone has used the slideshow analogy before?

If this is next gen then there must be no comprimise. No going back a generation in FPS for prettier graphics. NO NO NO! I'll have none of it!

VG Aficionado

11-26-2005, 01:52 AM

NEG! Oh my god I cannot stress how important framerate is!! I believe someone has used the slideshow analogy before?

If this is next gen then there must be no comprimise. No going back a generation in FPS for prettier graphics. NO NO NO! I'll have none of it!I am one of those people who can tell the difference between 50FPS and 60FPS, let alone between 30 and 60. I truly appreciate games which run at 60FPS, even if they have minor slowdowns. I'm looking forward for games that run at 120FPS, but...

Think about Killzone PS3: 1080p. 120FPS. Same or greater graphical quality as E3 video. Possible? I'm afraid not this time. Like it or not, the Holy Grail of computer graphics is not going to make it in time for the 7th generation of videogame consoles. We won't see all games running at 60FPS or more at the highest possible resolution and some filters for a good while yet. I'd love to be wrong in this one, but I need to be realistic. I'd be surprised if next-gen Killzone lives up to E3's trailer while running at 720p with a framerate higher than 30FPS. Still, it would look really great, even if I'd prefer 60FPS.

On the other hand, MGS4's 720p real time trailer runs at 60FPS. It brings 60FPS hope for most 720p games. However, I wouldn't really expect many 1080p games running at more than 30FPS while keeping the sharpest graphics (and 4x or 8x AA/AF).

I'm just trying to keep my feet on the ground, but I wish to be wrong at the same time.

jaxmkii

11-26-2005, 04:06 AM

1080p won't get games rid of jaggies, just to let you know.
it just makes them so small you dont see them

jaxmkii

11-26-2005, 04:11 AM

And by the way guys 1080p isn’t that hard anymore per-se, using just one of my two 7800 GTX produces a whopping 80FPS (steady) for FarCry at 1920x1080 at full settings. i been playing MSFS in 1080p scince august of 03 on a 9800pro 256Mb holding 30FPS... 20fps if the weather acts up

Ducey

11-26-2005, 04:11 AM

I'd be truly happy with 720p @ 85FPS, but if they can do 1080p @ 60FPS, thats quite acceptable to me also.

I am a gamer, these are my demands :P

jaxmkii

11-26-2005, 04:17 AM

I'd basically agree with you, Nerve-Damage, but I'd also say there are more benefits than the disappearance of jagged edges when AA is used.
OK?... so what exactly would the other uses of AA be?

11-26-2005, 05:36 AM

Nameless

11-26-2005, 06:55 AM

NEG! Oh my god I cannot stress how important framerate is!! I believe someone has used the slideshow analogy before?

If this is next gen then there must be no comprimise. No going back a generation in FPS for prettier graphics. NO NO NO! I'll have none of it!

Ducey, I have to disagree with the last comment regarding FPS and going back a generation for prettier graphics. I think people are starting to get carried away with the 60 FPS standard. Let me explain, the next-gen will introduce per pixel blur & shadowing. These new graphical tricks will help the human eye percieve motion and reduce the need of extremely high FPS for graphical fluidity.

The fact is that the human eye perceives the typical cinema film motion as being fluid at about 18fps, because of its blurring.

If you could see your moving hand very clear and crisp, then your eye needed to make more snapshots of it to make it look fluid. If you had a movie with 50 very sharp and crisp images per second, your eye would make out lots of details from time to time and you had the feeling, that the movie is stuttering. This is what the current gen is suffering from thus the 60 FPS standard.

Now don't get carried away with my statements, I would still like to see games running at 60 FPS or even 120 FPS, but it's not absolutely neccesary and I think it's unfair to judge next-gen games running at a lower FPS as poor games.
That's my 2 cents on the subject. Peace

TEEDA

11-26-2005, 07:00 AM

Another game i would like to see is NI OH
http://www.playfrance.com/images/ps3/597211213/zoom/8847.jpg
I love the kessen series , Dynasty warriors series , and Bushido blade seris on PlayStation and Samourai games in general.
The trailer was quite amazing. Can't wait to see Bladestorm ,NI Oh and maybe a Kessen Next Gen.
Technically i think Shaders were quite new to japanese developpers ,so they were quite impressive during the PlayStation meeting when they were first introduice to it.

Illmatic

11-26-2005, 07:14 AM

Are people still getting the comments Kutaragi made about 120fps movies confused with games? I thought that mix up had already been fixed around here :laugh:

VG Aficionado

11-26-2005, 12:37 PM

I realize how hard it is to imagine a 1080p game running in full +60fps, but it wouldn't be wize to shoot down the possibility just yet. keep in mind that PS3 uses Cell. yes, it lived up to its hype and it is truely a leap forward in CPU development. after at least 2 years from PS3's launch, we will know what PS3 devs will say about what PS3 can and cannot do- and evn that may not be precise. remember everyone said PS2 can not do normal (or was it bump?) mapping. Shiny proved everyone wrong with The Matrix: Path of Neo.

personally, if PS3 can pumb up 1080p games on two screens, I don't see why it can't run 60 and more frames per second on at least one. in any case, we'll see.I'm not saying it's impossible, of course not. If there is a next-gen console able to do that, that's the PS3. And I hope we'll see some games like this, even when I'm pretty sure most of them won't be like that.

Path Of Neo features normal mapping (and bump mapping too?) and Spartan: Total Warrior features HDR! S:TW lead programmer said in an interview that he achieved that by taking advantage of PS2's vector units like no one has ever before, since he loved assembly language and considered the vector units "a miracle of technology" - too bad both these games are not too great in some other ways and won't be too famous in a few years time. I've also seen some fake(?) HDR in MGS3 too, but it serves its purpose.

OK?... so what exactly would the other uses of AA be?You might want to take a look at this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antialiasing)

NeoPlayStation

11-26-2005, 02:44 PM

Are people still getting the comments Kutaragi made about 120fps movies confused with games? I thought that mix up had already been fixed around here :laugh:

Another "Toy Story graphics" blah blah blah begin.

CrumCon

11-26-2005, 02:51 PM

Another "Toy Story graphics" blah blah blah begin.

Except, this time the man already knocked us out during E3 and TGM. at least he shows us something this time.

Ducey

11-26-2005, 03:36 PM

Now don't get carried away with my statements, I would still like to see games running at 60 FPS or even 120 FPS, but it's not absolutely neccesary and I think it's unfair to judge next-gen games running at a lower FPS as poor games.
That's my 2 cents on the subject. Peace

Excellent points there, and on the whole I'd have to agree with you. But FPS has more effect than just visual. I really cant imagine trying to shave another hundreth of a second off my lap at 30 FPS, and fighting games benefit from it also. Sports games could too I imagine. So many games just felt more natural and fluid at 60FPS over 30.

Since playing games on my ps2 I have gone back and played various ps1 games. And thats where I noticed it. I didnt mind the graphics (especially in rpgs, the difference didnt affect my game there) but fighting and racing games, definitely.

Each game would have to be weighed individually on its own merits here, as some games would be affected more than others, but I just feel it would be a better idea to have games retain thier smoothness, than look better.

Of course, that is a personal preference. On my PC I usually lower graphics settings on games until I get a balance between graphics and frames, and I guess balance is the key word here.

My I do go on don't I? :P

Oh, just a side question. Any games/engines implement radiosity in any capacity?

venomv

11-26-2005, 04:30 PM

Are people still getting the comments Kutaragi made about 120fps movies confused with games? I thought that mix up had already been fixed around here :laugh:

It hasn't been fixxed completly, I'm still confused both sides of the arguement had good points. Where's Kuturagi when you need him?

Nameless

11-26-2005, 05:19 PM

Oh, just a side question. Any games/engines implement radiosity in any capacity?
The next-gen unreal engine is using Radiosity Light Mapping. Even some current gen engines can implement radiosity to a certain extent (calculations)...

Sklaar

11-26-2005, 08:45 PM

The next-gen unreal engine is using Radiosity Light Mapping. Even some current gen engines can implement radiosity to a certain extent (calculations)...

What is Radiosity Light Mapping?:help:

Nameless

11-26-2005, 11:55 PM

What is Radiosity Light Mapping?:help:
It would help if I provided more details:
Radiosity Light Mapping is a process by which extreme lighting detail is brought in static environments, like rooms. The key is in treating light physically, as a flux of photons. Complex visual effects, like the one you can see if you bring a tennis ball near a sheet of paper (the yellow colour of the ball smoothly blends onto the paper), or like how the corners where walls join are always darker than their surroundings.

Hopefully that provides some clarity...

11-27-2005, 12:31 AM

Another "Toy Story graphics" blah blah blah begin.
give me any proof Sony said that. there is proof that MS said Box can make Toy Story 2 graphics and Ninty said the N64 can make movie quality graphics. there is absolutely nothing that Sony said a PS can do that it couldn't. I have high regardsto Mas Chitani, Kuturagi and the rest of these briliant visionaries and engineers. and to be exact, they sometimes talk of the possibility of some features that they 'may' be released. for example, the HDD features in the PS2 didn't release out side of Japan. that doesn't mean they were technically impossible to do. and that also doesn't mean other markets didn't get them.

Kuturagi's 120fps isn't clear for us that don't know Japanese. the fact that we have many explanations and possibilites prove that. if Kuturagi said 120fps will happen in PS3 games, then they will happen. if he was referring to movies, then we will see them in movies. if he said they are technically possible, then they are. don't put words in his mouth. and I only believe official statements. other than that it is only speculation.

Ducey

11-27-2005, 01:04 AM

Yeah, radiosity is like an effect you don't notice, until it isn't there.

Actually, found some good info here (http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/radiosity/radiosity.htm)

Well... not so much found as typed 'Radiosity' in google :/

Nerve-Damage

11-27-2005, 01:24 AM

For the umpteen times …120FPS has nothing to do with movies. Movies are either captured in 24 or 30 frames per-second. Nothing higher is needed!! Anything over that is redundant, stupid, waste of film, and space. A films quality is based on bit-rate quality, the higher the rate the better the quality is. Your TV or PC monitor refresh-rate only needs to be 60HZ to keep the movie or film from tearing. Anything over 60HZ will do nothing for movies!! The higher hertz’s (refresh rates) are solution for higher resolutions, graphic modeling, and gaming needs.

And when Super-HDTV sets do become available and carry the higher refresh-rate (65HZ-and beyond) it will have nothing to do with film per-se. The higher refresh rates are needed for higher resolutions beyond 1080p and gaming entertainment purposes. Movie capture or filming will always be either 24 or 30 frames.

And please don’t come at me with “my DIVX movie is encoded at 60fps”. This still has nothing to do with refresh rates either. The super compress formats like DIVX & AVI files presents, sometimes require a higher capture rate to reproduce the same quality or smoothness that was presented in the original (24-30FPS) movie source (i.e. DVD or Film stock).

Ken Kuturagi made it perfectly clear what he meant…That future games will have the opportunity to hit 120FPS when the Super-HDTV sets become available with the higher refresh-rates too support them. Some of you guys need to stop trying to re-write history.

Illmatic

11-27-2005, 05:01 AM

Nerve-Damage

11-27-2005, 05:19 AM

I'm only posting this for fear of more FUD starting up in the next few years saying Sony didn't pull through on something again, when it was just a misunderstanding to begin with.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=608940&postcount=56

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/NEWS/20051027/110194/1027sce_hd_roadmap.jpg

* First the chart shows the progression of TV resolutions and it shows the format name or acronym!!
* Second the chart shows the progression of format storage (DVD, Blu-Ray, Ect).
* Third the chart shows the progression of frame-rates for games during a given time-span.
* Fourth the chart shows the progression of PC Monitors resolution with the given frame-rates listed above (as a standard or normal FPS) they should be expected in games as time passes. And it is also used as measure or demonstration on where consoles should be at (Resolutions & FPS) in future products and gaming needs.

Lastly, I can show you tons of articles where he states…120FPS for future games.

Edit: By the way if you do believe the 120FPS claim is for future movies...then where the hell are all the current 60fps-90fps DVD movies at now? Because they don’t exist or will ever exist!! You guys are so scared too think that a console could or will ever produce those frame-rates beyond the current HDTV sets. Man, get a 7800 GTX rig and you’ll be surprised at what this card can pump out at 1920x1080. And we all know (most of us anyway) the RSX will kill the current 7800 GTX in performance.

Sephiroth_VII

11-27-2005, 07:43 PM

mOVIES ARE 29.95 fps, and animé is 15 FPS.

CrumCon

11-27-2005, 07:48 PM

you guys dont even know that movies are 25fps for PAL and 29fps for NTSC?
these are standard.

higher or lower then 29fps for ntsc wouldnt be compitible, same as pal higher or lower then 25fps would make the movie incompitible

Sephiroth_VII

11-27-2005, 08:12 PM

Ups, forgot about PAL.
While it's true that PAL runs at max 25 fps, animé will only update its frames 15 times in one second. Even if you got a tv capeable of running at 75638547627 FPS, that won't change the animé framerate.
If that wasn't the case, TV's cabeable of 60 FPS wouldn't be able to run PSX games, as they run at 30 fps.

The PAL, NTSC incompatability, is due to the difference in resolution.
NTSC runs at 720x480, while PAL runs at 720x576.
When a PAL tv try to play NTSC, it crashes since the fps are to high.
But when a NTSC tv try to play PAL, the fps is fine, but it can't handle the high resolution.

This problem should be illiminated with HD-tv, since it's the same all over the world.

EDIT:
you guys dont even know that movies are 25fps for PAL and 29fps for NTSC?
these are standard.
It's still 29.95 fps for NTSC.

EDIT2:I were wrong.
It's 29.97 fps for NTSC, and 25 fps for PAL.
Gomen nasai!

CrumCon

11-27-2005, 08:19 PM

It's still 29.95 fps for NTSC.

yes, you're right.

But back to Kutaragi 120fps statement, YES it is for future games not movies.

case closed

Sephiroth_VII

11-27-2005, 08:22 PM

I think many misunderstandings could have been avoided, if only major gaming sites would hire some proper jap translators...

Nerve-Damage

11-27-2005, 08:27 PM

That 29.97 are referred as 30FPS (rounded off) for NTSC system for both SDTV and HDTV @60Hz. Anyhow, 24FPS is used during filming of movies and the 25fps is for the pal system.

Nerve-Damage

11-27-2005, 08:28 PM

yes, you're right.

But back to Kutaragi 120fps statement, YES it is for future games not movies.

case closed

CORRECT!!

Nerve-Damage

11-27-2005, 08:52 PM

The wrong format and frame-rate for 1080p material: 120FPS
* 120FPS x 60 seconds = 7,200 frames per minute (single pass)
* 7,200 x 60 minutes = 432,000 frames per hour (single pass)
* 432,000 frames x double pass (2) = 864,000 frames per hour (double pass)
* 1,728,000 frames for a normal 2 hour movie
Note: A single normal uncompressed 6-10MP (Mega Pixel) 1920x1080 frame takes up roughly 1MB of space.
* 1,728,000 (millions) frames x 1MB per frame = 1.728.000TB uncompressed visual data.
Note: MPEG2 format can create compression ratios up 30:1, and the measured quality or bit-rate is the final sample (bit-rate sample) of the completed process. The HD standard requires no more than a 10:1 ratio (the less the better) to be consider high definition material and most standard DVDs (480p) use the 17:1 ratio (and over) for compression. Most Broadcasters and Film studios prefer to keep compression ratios in between an 8:1 or 9:1 ratio, too balance out any unforeseen loss of detail during the process.
* 1.7TB at 8:1 ratio = 216GB of MPEG2 visual data
Outcome: No way in hell is 216GBS (HD content) going to fit on a Blu-Ray Disc. That’s only factoring in the visual data alone...Even if you cut 216GB in half (representing single pass encoding), you still will not be able to fit that on Blu-Ray storage medium.

The correct format and frame-rate for 1080p material: 24FPS
* 24FPS x 60 seconds = 1,440 frames per minute (single pass)
* 1,440 frames x 60 minutes = 86,400 frames per hour (single pass)
* 86,400 frames x double pass (2) = 172,800 frames per hour (double pass)
* 345,600 (thousands) frames for a normal 2 hour movie
Note: A single normal uncompressed 6-10MP (Mega Pixel) 1920x1080 frame takes up roughly 1MB of space.
* 345,000 frames x 1MB per frame = 345GB uncompressed visual data.
Note: MPEG2 format can create compression ratios up 30:1, and the measured quality or bit-rate is the final sample (bit-rate sample) of the completed process. The HD standard requires no more than a 10:1 ratio (the less the better) to be consider high definition material and most standard DVDs (480p) use the 17:1 ratio (and over) for compression. Most Broadcasters and Film studios prefer to keep compression ratios to a minimum of 8:1 or 9:1, too balance out any unforeseen loss of detail during the process.
* 345GB at 8:1 ratio = 43.1GB of MPEG2 visual data (leaving six plus gigabytes for sound, bonus material, and so fourth, well within range of the Blu-Ray storage (50GB) standard.)
Outcome: And here’s your answer why DVDs especially High Definition DVD films are only captured in 24-30 frames. And not that ridiculous fantasy that people took Ken for saying. (he said gaming not movies).