The console Wars [Archive]

Michael Bluth

02-03-2003, 03:08 AM

Nintendo's downfall? 3rd party relationships. What does Nintendo charge, like 44% royalties? I think Sony charges around 18%, and Microsoft bottoms out at 11%. Not very smart.

November 20th, 2002 - Sega plans to discontinue sports series (http://cube.ign.com/articles/377/377930p1.html)

December 12th, 2002 - THQ states XBox is gaining traction; GCN is losing traction (http://cube.ign.com/articles/380/380119p1.html)

December 18th, 2002 - Nintendo claims to be dead even with Microsoft in holiday sales (http://cube.ign.com/articles/380/380790p1.html)

December 20th, 2002 - Third party stats show that the XBox is winning by 20% (http://xbox.ign.com/articles/380/380934p1.html)

January 2003 - XBox Live passes all expectations (http://xbox.ign.com/articles/381/381738p1.html)
It is revealved that 4 of the Capcom 5 will most likely be ported (http://xbox.ign.com/articles/382/382882p1.html)
Sega cans World Series Baseball 2K3 (http://cube.ign.com/articles/383/383634p1.html)

January 23rd, 2003 - XBox claims #2 (http://xbox.ign.com/articles/383/383575p1.html)
Nintendo announces new console; says "Consumers today apparently don't want to sit in front of the television to play games for hours and hours" (http://cube.ign.com/articles/383/383515p1.html)

January 30th, 2003 - EA expect Cube decline; EA to take over Nintendo rumor comes out (http://cube.ign.com/articles/384/384338p1.html)

February 2nd, 2003 - Infogrames shows concern with GCN (http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=3569)

Let's not forget about the sale of Rare, the European lawsuit, or the other 3rd party games canned. And this previous week, DoA:XBV outsold Zelda by almost 10x.

VeNoM

02-03-2003, 03:20 AM

Exactly. They always shoot themselves in the foot one way or another.

In SNES days they had mario club where only the "good" 3rd parties could make games.

Then N64 with cartridges. Lost Konami, Capcom, Square from the start.

And now the GCN. Nintendos not showing much of any interest to third parties, and theyre all cancelling their titles as a result. Meanwhile theyre flocking to Xbox and PS2 because both Sony and Microsoft are buying exclusive rights, franchises, and deals, and helping 3rd parties with development tools etc.

And theyre choosing not to support online. Even if they do decide to fix that, they'll be last out of the gate. A day late, a dollar short.

Kliq

02-03-2003, 03:23 AM

Nintendo totally lacks RPGs, get some decent ones and that will definitely help.

VeNoM

02-03-2003, 03:32 AM

Sports games are being cancelled, theyre lacking in RPG's, fighting fans can't stand the Dpad and button layout, racing games are all ports and suck, and no online games.

What are those people to do? Buy a Ps2 or Xbox? Nintendo needs to get it's act together.

smellslikenintendospirit

02-03-2003, 03:46 AM

But what happened to all those excellent first and second party titles? Most got awesome reviews, ED, SMS, AC, SFA, MP yet they stopped selling and it puzzles me. Is it marketing? Image? I'm sure that if these games were on xbox they would sell a million + and push consoles. But it's not happening with Nintendo. There seems to be something wrong with the userbase, a lack of communication possibly, and knowledge as to what games come when. And marketing is another issue. I dunno.

VeNoM

02-03-2003, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by smellslikenintendospirit
But what happened to all those excellent first and second party titles? Most got awesome reviews, ED, SMS, AC, SFA, MP yet they stopped selling and it puzzles me. Is it marketing? Image? I'm sure that if these games were on xbox they would sell a million + and push consoles. But it's not happening with Nintendo. There seems to be something wrong with the userbase, a lack of communication possibly, and knowledge as to what games come when. And marketing is another issue. I dunno.

Yeah, they had awesome first/second party titles that nobody knew about.

*Eternal Darkness gets rated like a 9.0 everywhere, it sells 105,000 copies only.
*Animal Crossing one of the best cube games sells less then 200,000
*SFA sells less then 200,000
*Metroid Prime sells alright, even though it got beat by a few other 3rd party titles in sales, but it failed to push cube hardware. Same with mario.

I think its the image. People see Nintendo as kiddy. All the games they make are (admittedly) pretty kiddy. Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Super Mario Sunshine, none of them are mature. Gamers have grown up, the average one is over 20 now. The "cool" thing to do is go buy a Ps2 and play GTA. Casual gamers abandoned Nintendo, only the hardcore are left.

Kliq

02-03-2003, 04:06 AM

Originally posted by VeNoM

*Eternal Darkness gets rated like a 9.0 everywhere, it sells 105,000 copies only.
*Animal Crossing one of the best cube games sells less then 200,000
*SFA sells less then 200,000

Eternal Darkness sold that poorly?

Where's your source pal? :confused:

HellSpawn

02-03-2003, 04:09 AM

Wow, flashbacks to the Sega forums a couple of years ago...

I sure hope not...

smellslikenintendospirit

02-03-2003, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by Kliq

Eternal Darkness sold that poorly?

It's over than that but less than 200,000 I believe. The game got 9.6 at IGN, 9.4 at Gamespot and sold nothing. Silicon Knights was probably pretty dissapointed.

dncardman

02-03-2003, 04:45 AM

DAng it I just wish Nintendo got some people that really knew how to market the cube. Dang I don't want my cube to think anything is wrong.

DODGE the VIPER

02-03-2003, 05:35 AM

I wish nintendo had some decent racing sims.

VeNoM

02-03-2003, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by Kliq

Eternal Darkness sold that poorly?

Where's your source pal? :confused:

Yeah 100,000 was from a few weeks back, now its probably at 120 k....no more then 200,000 though, and considering it took like 4 years to make it (was originaly a N64 game etc) i think they may be pretty dissapointed. I'll try to find a link, but trust me on this one it did.

DLX

02-03-2003, 06:54 AM

War There is No War, Sony won this war a year ago.

VeNoM

02-03-2003, 07:31 AM

Its a war between Microsoft and Nintendo then. Or battle. Or whatever. Bah.

Future Starlocke

02-03-2003, 07:45 AM

At the end of this "generation" we'll know where the real competition lies.

You know my standpoint, and I have not picked a loser yet since the very first console war... SNES vs Genesis. No contest this time around, PS2. I predict that Microsoft will occassionally see sales spikes due to whatever gimmick selling ploy they make, but keep in mind those are just numbers and cash is and will pretty much be a decline throughout its whole lifespan. I predict that Nintendo will find better footing at the end of this year in particular, not only establishing itself stronger worldwide by the end of this summer, but leaving gamers waiting for what's coming in 2004, like the already known Resident Evil 4.

I believe X-Box live will last so long as all those people that bought the starter kits choose to stick with the service when their year is up. I think PS2's online plan will remain a casual one, and Gamecube's online plan will come to fruition (on what scale remains to be seen) based entirely on a 1st party title released with a package with the narrowband internet adapter.

GBA-SP will hit and make a decent splash, but the millions who already own the equivalent GBA probobly won't buy into it right away.

The Gameboy Player for the Gamecube will be a nice item, especially considering it adds the basic equivalent of an SNES to your Gamecube. 2x play, same little cube... hopefully this little device makes all the GBA to NGC connected games easier to manage than having a GBA, NGC and a cord stuck between the two.

I predict few big surprises for PS2... they're in a comfortable posistion and just need to maintain their flow to stay on top. NGC and Microsoft need to pull out all the stops, and while Microsoft continually acquires studios and former bosses, key programmers and creative minds seem to flock back to Nintendo. Don't be surprised if the new studios appearing on the radar end up burying the companies they helped birth.

Numbers game, PS2 wins. Cash game, either PS2 or NGC. X-Box has suffered losses that would cause any other company to cry their eyes out, but for Microsoft, it's spilt milk. If Microsoft comes back in the next generation, it would be simply because they have the cash to do so and not necessarily the fanbase they believe they have. Nintendo will surely comeback, and you can bet your ass Sony's in it for the long haul. Sony is the new Sega... Nintendo is still Nintendo.

Finally, and come back on Jan.01 2004 if I'm wrong... it will be the year of Nintendo. JANUARY FUCKING 01 2004... don't give me some long bloated list of boo shit games that nobody gives a rat's about... we'll see in the future what sells what and who goes where.

Diesel

02-03-2003, 09:13 AM

*claps*

Very well said, FS.

Sony is definitely in the driver's seat. They get to sit back and watch what MS/Nintendo has to do, in order to keep up, and then make a counter move to stay ahead.

MS has surprised me, and Im really anxious to see what they do this year.

I agree with FS. I think Nintendo will (they pretty much have to) make a strong push this year.

Only time will tell, and in the meantime, I'll continue playing the games for the games and not for the system...

Freeman_JI

02-03-2003, 10:12 AM

Future Starlocke sweats it out defending his console, it is this simple
PS2 = 1
no if no but's they got this good.
If microsoft bring it to SONY with some AAA games that are big (Half-life II the bigest game ever) that make the PS2 look bad then this may see a slight increase in sales to hardcore gamers.

GameCube will plod along like the 64 neither here nor there with the GBA saving it's ass (just like the 64). With nintendo making the usual mistakes with marketing and online. First party support will remain strong but 3rd party developers will finally give the cube up after each development team releases thier game and see's crap sales on the cube( just like the 64 Hmmmm have nintendo learned their lesson ?)

Final Thought:
Nintendo had a huge market share back in the Nes and SuperNes days, the market was all nintendo with some fight from SEGA

The 64 has some promising sales but is nothing compared to the Plastation, the Saturn Pulled from the market at 16 million sales the 64 satyed with it even thought the sales did not get much further than 20M +(the GB helped the 64) Playstation 80M +

The GameCube is released to a luke warm reception at Japan (the xbox even worse) the once powerful nintendo sit back in third after having the world (how could nintendo fuck up?)

The xbox entrenches into 2nd place

PS2 kick the air with 50 million sales

GameCube failes to get sales rolling even with AAAAAAAAAAA titles
Nintendo Quote "It's not us... no way... you know fuck you... the whole god dam world is stupid not us"

VeNoM

02-03-2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Freeman_JI
GameCube will plod along like the 64 neither here nor there with the GBA saving it's ass (just like the 64). With nintendo making the usual mistakes with marketing and online. First party support will remain strong but 3rd party developers will finally give the cube up after each development team releases thier game and see's crap sales on the cube( just like the 64 Hmmmm have nintendo learned their lesson ?)

The GameCube is released to a luke warm reception at Japan (the xbox even worse) the once powerful nintendo sit back in third after having the world (how could nintendo fuck up?)

The xbox entrenches into 2nd place
PS2 kick the air with 50 million sales

GameCube failes to get sales rolling even with AAAAAAAAAAA titles
Nintendo Quote "It's not us... no way... you know fuck you... the whole god dam world is stupid not us"

Yeah its pretty hard to understand how Nintendo goes on top to not caring anymore and falling to 3rd, beat by a newcomer not once, but twice in a row.

2002 was supposed to be the year of Gamecube, but it wasn't. A Mario game, a Metroid game, a starfox game, and the rest of Nintendos bigger franchises all made their appearances but nothing really happened. Now 2003 is supposed to be the year of Nintendo. Deja vu?

How ignorant can they be to say gamers aren't the way they used to be? When asked about why Gamecube was selling poorly he said something like "Gamers aren't playing many video games much anymore" - yeah tell that to Sony with GTA Vice.

Michael Bluth

02-03-2003, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
You know my standpoint, and I have not picked a loser yet since the very first console war... SNES vs Genesis. No contest this time around, PS2. I predict that Microsoft will occassionally see sales spikes due to whatever gimmick selling ploy they make, but keep in mind those are just numbers and cash is and will pretty much be a decline throughout its whole lifespan. I predict that Nintendo will find better footing at the end of this year in particular, not only establishing itself stronger worldwide by the end of this summer, but leaving gamers waiting for what's coming in 2004, like the already known Resident Evil 4.

I highly doubt Resident Evil 4 will be that big of a system seller / larger factor in the console war. Why? Because of it's genre. How many times during school, or in a video game store, do you hear "Hey man, guess what I did in Silent Hill 2 yesterday?" Or, "Guess what you can do in Eternal Darkness!!!". Never. It's a genre for hardcoreish gamers, not the casual gamer (which moves systems). Besides, when RE4 comes out there will be games that will look just as good, on both the GameCube and XBox - hell, Halo 2 looks better than it and it comes out around November.

I believe X-Box live will last so long as all those people that bought the starter kits choose to stick with the service when their year is up. I think PS2's online plan will remain a casual one, and Gamecube's online plan will come to fruition (on what scale remains to be seen) based entirely on a 1st party title released with a package with the narrowband internet adapter.

I really don't see Nintendo jumping on the online bandwagon, atleast that much. They seemed to have missed the chance to join everybody, but I do think they will release an online title here and there.

GBA-SP will hit and make a decent splash, but the millions who already own the equivalent GBA probobly won't buy into it right away.

And it will also piss off a bunch of people that just got the GBA.

The Gameboy Player for the Gamecube will be a nice item, especially considering it adds the basic equivalent of an SNES to your Gamecube. 2x play, same little cube... hopefully this little device makes all the GBA to NGC connected games easier to manage than having a GBA, NGC and a cord stuck between the two.

I really don't see the GBPlayer selling that much. At all. I don't know about other people, but I have my GBA for a certain reason - portable games. I'd rather not sit down and play my 32 bit games when I can be playing the likes of Halo and MechAssault. I'll play them when I'm on the road.....

I predict few big surprises for PS2... they're in a comfortable posistion and just need to maintain their flow to stay on top. NGC and Microsoft need to pull out all the stops, and while Microsoft continually acquires studios and former bosses, key programmers and creative minds seem to flock back to Nintendo. Don't be surprised if the new studios appearing on the radar end up burying the companies they helped birth.

Key programmers and creative minds flocking back to Nintendo? Like who? Oh yeah, a couple of guys that left years ago from a company Microsoft bought a couple years ago. I don't think that counts, Starlocke. And yes, I know you're refering to Zoonami.

Numbers game, PS2 wins. Cash game, either PS2 or NGC. X-Box has suffered losses that would cause any other company to cry their eyes out, but for Microsoft, it's spilt milk. If Microsoft comes back in the next generation, it would be simply because they have the cash to do so and not necessarily the fanbase they believe they have. Nintendo will surely comeback, and you can bet your ass Sony's in it for the long haul. Sony is the new Sega... Nintendo is still Nintendo.

GameCube wins the cash game? WTF? Hell no, they're in dead last. There are publishing companies who are worth more than Nintendo. Mind I remind you that the XBox also has the highest attachment rate, or games per system sold, out of any console to date? Software is where companies make their money.

Finally, and come back on Jan.01 2004 if I'm wrong... it will be the year of Nintendo. JANUARY FUCKING 01 2004... don't give me some long bloated list of boo shit games that nobody gives a rat's about... we'll see in the future what sells what and who goes where.

"nobody gives a rat's about" = you. Why? Because you know nothing about the titles. Really, after Zelda, what is there that we know about? Mario Kart is coming........... but when? Will it be online? Nintendo seems to love to mess with their fans, and it isn't right.

VeNoM

02-03-2003, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
At the end of this "generation" we'll know where the real competition lies.

Next generation we will know. This generation is important for next gen. If Nintendo has a bad rep with way less games, support, commercials, etc. How is that going to help for next gen? People will just continue to buy Ps3's and Xbox 2's.

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
I predict that Nintendo will find better footing at the end of this year in particular, not only establishing itself stronger worldwide by the end of this summer, but leaving gamers waiting for what's coming in 2004, like the already known Resident Evil 4.

Weren't people saying this last year? "The Year of Nintendo!" yeah look how that turned out. The redemption console is ending up like the 64 after just one year.

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
I believe X-Box live will last so long as all those people that bought the starter kits choose to stick with the service when their year is up. I think PS2's online plan will remain a casual one, and Gamecube's online plan will come to fruition (on what scale remains to be seen) based entirely on a 1st party title released with a package with the narrowband internet adapter.

Mario Kart....not even confirmed yet. Even if they do have a good online plan theyre last out of the gate. Microsoft and Sony will have tons of online games compared to Nintendos 2 or 3.

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
GBA-SP will hit and make a decent splash, but the millions who already own the equivalent GBA probobly won't buy into it right away.

Tell that to the happy people that ripped open their christmas presents and open their GBA's only to hear the surprise announcment that a new better improved and nicer looking GBA is coming out within 2 or 3 months.

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
The Gameboy Player for the Gamecube will be a nice item, especially considering it adds the basic equivalent of an SNES to your Gamecube. 2x play, same little cube... hopefully this little device makes all the GBA to NGC connected games easier to manage than having a GBA, NGC and a cord stuck between the two.

It's not going to sell well, people buy GBA for a reason. So they can play when theyre on the road, in a doctors office, a waiting room, etc. Not so they can play a pixelized game on a huge TV.

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
and while Microsoft continually acquires studios and former bosses, key programmers and creative minds seem to flock back to Nintendo. Don't be surprised if the new studios appearing on the radar end up burying the companies they helped birth.

Like who? Who flocked back to Nintendo? Name one person. Zoonami? They left in 1998. Perfect Dark came out in 2000. They survived without him. The other guy? All he did was make backgrounds for conkers bad fur day.

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
Numbers game, PS2 wins. Cash game, either PS2 or NGC. X-Box has suffered losses that would cause any other company to cry their eyes out, but for Microsoft, it's spilt milk. If Microsoft comes back in the next generation, it would be simply because they have the cash to do so and not necessarily the fanbase they believe they have. Nintendo will surely comeback, and you can bet your ass Sony's in it for the long haul. Sony is the new Sega... Nintendo is still Nintendo.

You think of all people Microsoft would give up? No way. Even if theyre loosing a ton of money they'll just acquire big studios to make killer games. They get most of their money back in software sales. Nobody makes a profit on hardware.

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
Finally, and come back on Jan.01 2004 if I'm wrong... it will be the year of Nintendo. JANUARY FUCKING 01 2004... don't give me some long bloated list of boo shit games that nobody gives a rat's about... we'll see in the future what sells what and who goes where.

Deja vu? I remember people saying this last year.

C.J.

02-04-2003, 12:06 AM

Damn you two, getting to all the good points before me... :(

lost_in_SR-388

02-04-2003, 12:25 AM

what place would dreamcast be in right now if it were still alive based on the games sega is still dishing out along with third party support that would obviously take place?

Dark_Cloud

02-04-2003, 01:25 AM

Eh, i say we are all fooling ourselves. There will be no "year of the cube" or whatever. If you think about who the majority of the people who buy systems are, then you can understand where im coming from. Most people buy the cool system. The one everyone has. Microsoft and sony know this. They set out to make systems that the general public would think were cool. Lets start with the names. First we have Playstation. Not a bad name, but most poeple call it PS2, which seems more mature that playstation. Then we have X box. That sounds like the name of some cumputer chip or something. Last, we have Gamecube. That is a realy bad name unless you are trying to get kids to buy your console. Now, lets move on to the looks of the console. The PS2 has a sleek look. It stands up strait and looks like its a computer tower or something. The X box is a little bolder. It an ogre, but it looks like a cool lookin VCR or something. The we have the gamecube. Its small and loks like a toy. It didnt help that nintendo first introduced the blue one. Bright colors are something you like as a kid. One the controllers, all the buttons are neon colors, with small d pads and stuff. Then you gotta think of the games nintendo is famous for. Zelda , Mario, Yoshi, all of wich, to the casual gamer, are little kid games. The point? No one wants to be told they are little kids. Nintendo Gamecube is giving off the vibe that it is a toy. They cant sell well because most gamers are casual gamers. They want to be told they are sophistcated enough to play video games on something that looks more like a computer than a toy.

Michael Bluth

02-04-2003, 01:39 AM

I really don't think the name nor look of a console has anything to do with who will win the system war. And quite frankly, the Platinum GameCube is pretty damn cool looking; the colored PS2's, on the other hand, are ass and a half.

Future Starlocke

02-04-2003, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Phantagram
I really don't think the name nor look of a console has anything to do with who will win the system war. And quite frankly, the Platinum GameCube is pretty damn cool looking; the colored PS2's, on the other hand, are ass and a half.

No... Dark actually had a point. Everyone bought the PS2 because it was the "new Playstation", it "had the best graphics first", and "it played DVDs". I remember reading a public poll somewhere and those were the top three (of five) choices... leaving "the games" and "I'm not interested in PS2" at the bottom.

Michael Bluth

02-04-2003, 02:03 AM

Hm............

People suck.

PremierAudio

02-04-2003, 02:08 AM

I know you're all saying that there will be no "year of the cube", but consider the fact that 2002 WAS supposed to be the big year. Nintendo didn't do that well alltogether, but it's not like they're just going to use the same strategies and game ideas this year as well. They can identify their mistakes and try to make their games better, and maybe release them at better times (hence microsoft's big boost at the holiday season and Nintendo releasing titles like Star Fox and Mario Sunshine in the mid-year which not as popular and sold really slowly).

I think one of the things that most people forget a lot is the fact that nobody's going to just give up in this console war. Nintendo's not just going to say "x-box wins" and just stop making good games and stuff. I hate when my x-box "superbiased" friends start to diss Nintendo's next-gen console already! They think that just because nintendo has a lower-tech console now (which it isn't as low tech as they say.....but whatever) that nintendo will always be behind and never have better technology.

lastly, You guys gotta stop telling us that nintendo will not have a good lineup for the next year or two because nintendo's got a lot of awesome-looking first party games (which i admit are a little kiddy, but is THAT going to stop the Wind Waker from selling? I dont think so) and the only games I'm expecting to really be good from Microsoft are Halo 2 and maybe Fable.

Dark_Cloud

02-04-2003, 02:25 AM

Yes, but what im saying, is that everyone waiting for those games to come out probably got their gamecube already. Thats why i dont see a big boost in gamecubue sales. Nintendo realy need to learn from their many, many mistakes.

VeNoM

02-04-2003, 03:01 AM

Originally posted by PremierAudio
(which i admit are a little kiddy, but is THAT going to stop the Wind Waker from selling? I dont think so).

Yes, it will. It's not the type of game that people would be proud to own a gamecube for, nor is it the type of game that would get casual gamers to buy it.

It will sell but it won't boost hardware. And i guarantee you 99% that it won't sell as good or as fast as previous zelda's. The spaceworld Zelda on the other hand could have boosted GCN's hardware greatly, AND be a killer game, AND one that casuals would play, AND something that Xbox/Ps2 owners couldn't diss and wish they had.

Future Starlocke

02-04-2003, 03:10 AM

Think to japan anyway... 400,000 in a week... if it sells that much in the US then it's a hit.

Kenshin2

02-04-2003, 03:13 AM

Nintendo needs better marketing, their commercials suck. Nintendo is going to do better with their next console, because their trying to release it earlier so they can be like the ps2.

They should make a mature first party game, that would be cool.

VeNoM

02-04-2003, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
Think to japan anyway... 400,000 in a week... if it sells that much in the US then it's a hit.

It's only sold 560,000 something in Japan. Another Zelda would of sold 1.5-2 million already.

Michael Bluth

02-04-2003, 03:30 AM

Yeah, Zelda is only selling about 8,000 copies a week now in Japan, and dropped 7 spots.

VeNoM

02-04-2003, 03:37 AM

Like SMS and all the other games. High on the charts for 1 week, off the charts the next.

Dark_Cloud

02-04-2003, 04:03 AM

Thats cuz everyone who has a gamecube bought one for those games. As soon as they all have one, its all over. Nintendo relies on 1st and 2nd party games way too much. Whithout them, gamecube is useless.

PremierAudio

02-04-2003, 04:17 AM

okay, i think that the cell-shading part only turns off people who play games for graphics and not for the gameplay. The game is already going to be a super hit with all hardcore gamers everywhere, and will probably boost the sales of the cube for a little bit because of all the people who maybe have another system but are serious zelda fans. Anybody who's anybody knows that zelda is the one of the best (some would argue it being the best of the best [me]) game series ever created. So anybody that gets turned off because of cell-shading should not even be considered because they aren't that experienced or knowledgable about games.

Think of it in this aspect: a cell-shaded halo. (as long as the gameplay and multiplayer kept up with its supremely beautiful high standards that it's set)

Prince

02-04-2003, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Dark_Cloud
Thats cuz everyone who has a gamecube bought one for those games. As soon as they all have one, its all over. Nintendo relies on 1st and 2nd party games way too much. Whithout them, gamecube is useless.

Yeah i agree.

Originally posted by PremierAudio
okay, i think that the cell-shading part only turns off people who play games for graphics and not for the gameplay. The game is already going to be a super hit with all hardcore gamers everywhere, and will probably boost the sales of the cube for a little bit because of all the people who maybe have another system but are serious zelda fans.

Thats the key word. Hardcore gamers. Casual gamers make up most of the consoles demographic. It can only do so good if only hardcore gamers pick it up. It's going to be a great title but it will be passed over in stores to GTA Vice or something.

Originally posted by PremierAudio
Think of it in this aspect: a cell-shaded halo. (as long as the gameplay and multiplayer kept up with its supremely beautiful high standards that it's set)

I don't think that would sell either. Only to the hardcore. Which is not alot of people these days. Jet Set Radio future gets passed up by many gamers because of the cel-shading kiddy look, however it is a great game. I think the same will happen with Zelda.

Kliq

02-05-2003, 12:27 AM

Well of course Nintendo relies on 1st and 2nd party games .... that's where all the dough rakes in.

DLX

02-05-2003, 01:48 AM

It appears Phantagram has brought all his little boys from Xbox fire to help him out. Lets see how they counter what i have to say.

Originally posted by VeNoM

Yeah its pretty hard to understand how Nintendo goes on top to not caring anymore and falling to 3rd, beat by a newcomer not once, but twice in a row.

Who said Microsoft has beaten Nintendo?? It aint over yet, Nintendo and Microsoft are still fairly close in sales, and i can see either one of them pushing ahead of eachother with enough effort. Right now all i see for Xbox in 2003 is Halo 2 and Fable, Maybe a couple of other games some people may consider buying, but nothing else. And please odnt waste your time posting the same list of those one hundred games all over again because im really not interested in yawning. With nintendo i see some big names that should Automatically get huge sales, The Return of Final Fantasy(Wether you like it or Not , Final Fantasy Sells) to a nintendo console, Star Fox, The Capcom 5, The Konami 10, Zelda, F-Zero and Much more stuff down the line, I see much more promise Fro Nintendo.

2002 was supposed to be the year of Gamecube, but it wasn't. A Mario game, a Metroid game, a starfox game, and the rest of Nintendos bigger franchises all made their appearances but nothing really happened. Now 2003 is supposed to be the year of Nintendo. Deja vu?

What are you Talking about?? Again you have no clue...2002 was a very good year, Not a incredible year but very good nonetheless, with about 6 games making the million mark, and establishing a significant Lead over The Xbox in Japan.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phantagram

I highly doubt Resident Evil 4 will be that big of a system seller / larger factor in the console war. Why? Because of it's genre. How many times during school, or in a video game store, do you hear "Hey man, guess what I did in Silent Hill 2 yesterday?" Or, "Guess what you can do in Eternal Darkness!!!". Never. It's a genre for hardcoreish gamers, not the casual gamer (which moves systems). Besides, when RE4 comes out there will be games that will look just as good, on both the GameCube and XBox - hell, Halo 2 looks better than it and it comes out around November.

I Dont know about you, but Resident evil is often talked about, It may be mostly for hardcore gamers, but Resident Evil Is and always will sell well. And if Horror survival ISNT that Important like you say, why do you constatly brag about Dino Crisis 3??

I really don't see Nintendo jumping on the online bandwagon, atleast that much. They seemed to have missed the chance to join everybody, but I do think they will release an online title here and there.

Hell WHo cares about Online?? Seriously man, Online is more of a luxury than anything else, and If Nintendo has managed to do this well with out a credible online Plan, I Really dont see it playing a huge factor in deciding Who wins this War, Like I said, and ill say it again, big franchises sell systems.

I really don't see the GBPlayer selling that much. At all. I don't know about other people, but I have my GBA for a certain reason - portable games. I'd rather not sit down and play my 32 bit games when I can be playing the likes of Halo and MechAssault. I'll play them when I'm on the road.....

I beg to differ, it appears your not taking into account how succesfull The GBA is. Just thinking alone how much nintendo makes of The Handheld market, i can see million of people buying GBplayers, Yes i do understnad what you mean Adam, but remember your opinion isnt necessarily everyones.

GameCube wins the cash game? WTF? Hell no, they're in dead last. There are publishing companies who are worth more than Nintendo. Mind I remind you that the XBox also has the highest attachment rate, or games per system sold, out of any console to date? Software is where companies make their money.

Yes only One EA. can you tell me another publishing company worth more than nintendo?? Exactly. Yes But when the software there seilling is mostly third party, i really dont see it making that much more than Nintendo, who makes The Most selling First Party Games. Couple that with the fact Microsoft loses money with every system it sells, its certainly a conceivable idea that Nintendo pull of a bigger profit than Microsoft as far as Video GameS are concerned.

t;nobody gives a rat's about" = you. Why? Because you know nothing about the titles. Really, after Zelda, what is there that we know about? Mario Kart is coming........... but when? Will it be online? Nintendo seems to love to mess with their fans, and it isn't right.

After Halo 2 and Fable What Else Is Coming..Oh Yeah Halo 3 but When?? Microsoft seems to love to sell one or two Massivley appealing games a year..Thats not right.

Prince

02-05-2003, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
It appears Phantagram has brought all his little boys from Xbox fire to help him out. Lets see how they counter what i have to say.

When i go to Xbox fire, it forwards me to these forums. Hmm i dunno. I dont even know Phantagram.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Who said Microsoft has beaten Nintendo?? It aint over yet, Nintendo and Microsoft are still fairly close in sales, and i can see either one of them pushing ahead of eachother with enough effort.

Maybe they mean in US. Microsoft is killing GCN in US. But GCN has an equally large gap in Japan which puts them pretty equal.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Right now all i see for Xbox in 2003 is Halo 2 and Fable, Maybe a couple of other games some people may consider buying, but nothing else. And please odnt waste your time posting the same list of those one hundred games all over again because im really not interested in yawning. With nintendo i see some big names that should Automatically get huge sales, The Return of Final Fantasy(Wether you like it or Not , Final Fantasy Sells) to a nintendo console, Star Fox, The Capcom 5, The Konami 10, Zelda, F-Zero and Much more stuff down the line, I see much more promise Fro Nintendo.

You do know theres no "Konami 10" right? 4 of the Capcom 5 are likely to be ported to the Ps2. All i see is 3 games, not much better then what you listed for GCN. Zelda, F-Zero, and FF:CC? Puhleeze. Xbox has alot of good games in 2003, and so does Nintendo. If you want to play it based on hype, then Zelda would be the only 2003 game.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Hell WHo cares about Online?? Seriously man, Online is more of a luxury than anything else, and If Nintendo has managed to do this well with out a credible online Plan, I Really dont see it playing a huge factor in deciding Who wins this War, Like I said, and ill say it again, big franchises sell systems.

I care about online. I was promised online support by Nintendo, and was said to have a Nintendo Network. Yet i don't see that. It's one of the reasons i bought a Cube. Just because you don't see it fun, doesn't mean the rest don't. If GCN had an online plan i'd guarantee you that you would be the first to praise it. Big franchises sell systems? Where has Nintendo f*cked up then, because both Mario, and Metroid haven't boosted hardware.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
I beg to differ, it appears your not taking into account how succesfull The GBA is. Just thinking alone how much nintendo makes of The Handheld market, i can see million of people buying GBplayers, Yes i do understnad what you mean Adam, but remember your opinion isnt necessarily everyones.

The GBA is sucessfull for a reason. It's the only handheld. Everything else that tried to stop GB's dominance was crushed. GBA is supposed to be portable for a reason. Thats why i don't see GB Player selling well. Its more of a novelty then anything else.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Yes only One EA. can you tell me another publishing company worth more than nintendo?? Exactly. Yes But when the software there seilling is mostly third party, i really dont see it making that much more than Nintendo, who makes The Most selling First Party Games. Couple that with the fact Microsoft loses money with every system it sells, its certainly a conceivable idea that Nintendo pull of a bigger profit than Microsoft as far as Video GameS are concerned.

Why would they not sell better? Instead of selling to only one console they sell to 3. Selling to a userbase of 70 million (PS2 + Xbox + GCN combined) brings you more money then selling to a userbase of 9 million (GCN).

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
After Halo 2 and Fable What Else Is Coming..Oh Yeah Halo 3 but When?? Microsoft seems to love to sell one or two Massivley appealing games a year..Thats not right.

Theres alot of great games in 2003 for Xbox. And alot for GCN. If you don't want to admit that your blind.

Michael Bluth

02-05-2003, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
It appears Phantagram has brought all his little boys from Xbox fire to help him out. Lets see how they counter what i have to say.

1) XBoxFire.com isn't even up
2) I have not known these people prior to this forum

Who said Microsoft has beaten Nintendo??

Everywhere but Japan? Oh, NPD, IGN, GameSpot, GameSpy, etc., etc.

It aint over yet, Nintendo and Microsoft are still fairly close in sales, and i can see either one of them pushing ahead of eachother with enough effort. Right now all i see for Xbox in 2003 is Halo 2 and Fable, Maybe a couple of other games some people may consider buying, but nothing else. And please odnt waste your time posting the same list of those one hundred games all over again because im really not interested in yawning. With nintendo i see some big names that should Automatically get huge sales, The Return of Final Fantasy(Wether you like it or Not , Final Fantasy Sells) to a nintendo console, Star Fox, The Capcom 5, The Konami 10, Zelda, F-Zero and Much more stuff down the line, I see much more promise Fro Nintendo.

Nintendo is only close because of Japan. Right now all YOU see for 2003 is Halo 2 and Fable; but to an XBox fan, there is well over 20+ games of interest. The Capcom 5 aren't exclusive, there is no such thing as the Konami 10, and what else is there?

I Dont know about you, but Resident evil is often talked about, It may be mostly for hardcore gamers, but Resident Evil Is and always will sell well. And if Horror survival ISNT that Important like you say, why do you constatly brag about Dino Crisis 3??

Uh, Resident Evil didn't sell all that great. Dino Crisis isn't really survival horror, it's more adventure.

Hell WHo cares about Online?? Seriously man, Online is more of a luxury than anything else, and If Nintendo has managed to do this well with out a credible online Plan, I Really dont see it playing a huge factor in deciding Who wins this War, Like I said, and ill say it again, big franchises sell systems.

I care about online. So do the 270,000+ or so people who also bought an XBox Live Starter kit.

Yes only One EA. can you tell me another publishing company worth more than nintendo?? Exactly. Yes But when the software there seilling is mostly third party, i really dont see it making that much more than Nintendo, who makes The Most selling First Party Games. Couple that with the fact Microsoft loses money with every system it sells, its certainly a conceivable idea that Nintendo pull of a bigger profit than Microsoft as far as Video GameS are concerned.

All companies lose money with every system sold.

After Halo 2 and Fable What Else Is Coming..Oh Yeah Halo 3 but When?? Microsoft seems to love to sell one or two Massivley appealing games a year..Thats not right.

I atleast know what is coming until then. And Fable doesn't come out for quite some time, what will be out after that will be revealed at E3. Atleast we know the games have been confirmed, unlike Nintendo.

DLX

02-05-2003, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by Prince

Maybe they mean in US. Microsoft is killing GCN in US. But GCN has an equally large gap in Japan which puts them pretty equal.

Microsoft isnt "Killing" GCN in America, there neck to neck, and show me a link.

You do know theres no "Konami 10" right? 4 of the Capcom 5 are likely to be ported to the Ps2. All i see is 3 games, not much better then what you listed for GCN. Zelda, F-Zero, and FF:CC? Puhleeze. Xbox has alot of good games in 2003, and so does Nintendo. If you want to play it based on hype, then Zelda would be the only 2003 game.

Yes I am Fully aware that 4 out of the 5 capcom games MIGHT be ported to PS2, But Thats It PS2, which has nothing to do with this discusiion. there are no plans as of yet to even port them, Capcom Said it themselves, "The Five Games MAY OR MAY NOT be ported to other systems", Thus Theres still a chance the Cpacom 5 Could stay exclusive. Puhleeze for FF?? You can Phantagram are truly the same, You do realize On Averag, A Final Fantasy game usually sells more than 6 million games by the end of its lifespan?? F-zero has always sold well, and Since the Next Starfox is a "TRUE" Starfox game, its a given it will sell better than rare's offering.

I care about online. I was promised online support by Nintendo, and was said to have a Nintendo Network. Yet i don't see that. It's one of the reasons i bought a Cube. Just because you don't see it fun, doesn't mean the rest don't. If GCN had an online plan i'd guarantee you that you would be the first to praise it. Big franchises sell systems? Where has Nintendo f*cked up then, because both Mario, and Metroid haven't boosted hardware.

Well Im Glad You care about online. Dont put words in my mouth because righyt now i could give two shits about online play, and even if Gamecube did have a good online plan, i still wouldnt care. Mario has made the million mark in sales, and will continue to sell. Just because The Xbox Bundle has sold better than The Mario Sunshine bundle doesnt mean The Mario Sunshine Bundle isnt doing well at all. And Metroid Prime Sold More Than 200,000 Copies in its first week. Learn more talk less my friend.

The GBA is sucessfull for a reason. It's the only handheld. Everything else that tried to stop GB's dominance was crushed. GBA is supposed to be portable for a reason. Thats why i don't see GB Player selling well. Its more of a novelty then anything else.

Whats your point?? You still havent given me one reason it wont do well.

Theres alot of great games in 2003 for Xbox. And alot for GCN. If you don't want to admit that your blind. [/QUOTE]

Admit what?? That Fable and Halo 2 will rock??

DLX

02-05-2003, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by Phantagram

Nintendo is only close because of Japan. Right now all YOU see for 2003 is Halo 2 and Fable; but to an XBox fan, there is well over 20+ games of interest. The Capcom 5 aren't exclusive, there is no such thing as the Konami 10, and what else is there?

We dont know yet if the Capcom 5 arent exclusive, if they do exceptionally well on The Gamecube, its a possibility they may stay exclusive, and even if they werent, theres no guarantee there heading for the Xbox. And Yes The Konami 10 Do Exist, Ten Game made by capcom are all going to the cube. Yes all i see is Fable and Halo 2, because im not interested in a ton of mediocre games that are going to ported to PS2 and Gamecube anyway.

Resident Evil didn't sell all that great. Dino Crisis isn't really survival horror, it's more adventure.

*Cough200,000copiesinaweekcough*

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah *breaths* hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah, You Know nothing of Dino Crisis, The first tw installments were Definately Horror Survival, and The third oneakes place in a transforming ship with Haunting mutated dinosaurs, and you play an agent alone on this ship, If That doesnt sound like horror survival i dont know what does.

I care about online. So do the 270,000+ or so people who also bought an XBox Live Starter kit.

yes but 270,000 people is only a fraction of the overall community of Xbox owners.

All companies lose money with every system sold.

But Xbox loses more.

I atleast know what is coming until then. And Fable doesn't come out for quite some time, what will be out after that will be revealed at E3. Atleast we know the games have been confirmed, unlike Nintendo.

So What?? Even though a lot of games havent been vonfirmed, i can say the vast majority of killer gamecube games this year arent mediocre and in some cases wont end up in The Xbox or The Ps2.

Sorry for the double post.

Prince

02-05-2003, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Microsoft isnt "Killing" GCN in America, there neck to neck, and show me a link.

Oh, only NPD, IGN, Gamespy, Gamespot, UBS Warburg, and every other stats. Your right, theyre lying.

Heres the stats:

Europe:
Xbox - 1.8 million
Gamecube - 1.4 million

NPD USA Cumulative Installed Base:

PS2: 15,870,000
XBOX: 4,601,000
GCN: 3,583,000

Australia:
XBOX: 225,000
GCN: 45,000

Really man, face it.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Yes I am Fully aware that 4 out of the 5 capcom games MIGHT be ported to PS2, But Thats It PS2, which has nothing to do with this discusiion. there are no plans as of yet to even port them, Capcom Said it themselves, "The Five Games MAY OR MAY NOT be ported to other systems", Thus Theres still a chance the Cpacom 5 Could stay exclusive.

If there was no plans to port them, why do you think they would correct their "Gamecube exclusive" statement? It's obvious theyre thinking about it.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Puhleeze for FF?? You can Phantagram are truly the same, You do realize On Averag, A Final Fantasy game usually sells more than 6 million games by the end of its lifespan?? F-zero has always sold well, and Since the Next Starfox is a "TRUE" Starfox game, its a given it will sell better than rare's offering.

Does that mean anything? I don't care about previous track records, because if we went by that Zelda would have sold a million by now. Today is different then before.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Well Im Glad You care about online. Dont put words in my mouth because righyt now i could give two shits about online play, and even if Gamecube did have a good online plan, i still wouldnt care. Mario has made the million mark in sales, and will continue to sell.

And? So have alot of Xbox and Ps2 games. If you add online to them they have more interested people that will buy both the broadband/56k adapter, AND the game.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Just because The Xbox Bundle has sold better than The Mario Sunshine bundle doesnt mean The Mario Sunshine Bundle isnt doing well at all. And Metroid Prime Sold More Than 200,000 Copies in its first week. Learn more talk less my friend.

And? Splinter Cell which launched the same day outsold it. Nothing to brag about, considering MP has been advertised everywhere and made game of the year.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Whats your point?? You still havent given me one reason it wont do well.

Because GBA is a portable. You think people like to play GBA on their TV? Maybe a few thousand may be interested but its not going to sell well - thats probably one of the reasons its only coming out in Jet Black - to keep production costs low.

Prince

02-05-2003, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
And Yes The Konami 10 Do Exist, Ten Game made by capcom are all going to the cube. Yes all i see is Fable and Halo 2, because im not interested in a ton of mediocre games that are going to ported to PS2 and Gamecube anyway.

Lay off the crack pipe dude. You must be dizzy or something. You say "Konami 10 do exist, ten games by capcom are all going to the cube" - you do know Konami and Capcom are different people right? All thats scheduled for the Gamecube is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and Street Knights or whatever - both ps2 ports. Ton of mediocre games being ported? hahaha, the games Phantagram listed are all exclusive buddy.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
yes but 270,000 people is only a fraction of the overall community of Xbox owners.

So, are you not saying that the 180,000 who bought Eternal Darkness is a small fraction? Or the 300,000 who bought Animal Crossing? They're both great games. Nothing sells to all Xbox or Gamecube owners.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
But Xbox loses more.

They also gain most of it back with the 4.7 attachment rate.

Future Starlocke

02-05-2003, 03:16 AM

I'm noticing a frightening trend... you seem to love to disect other people's posts and try to alienate their input...

...just like this other bitch that got banned earlier...

JackieChanIsGOD

02-05-2003, 03:17 AM

He's either the same person, or got the invite by Adam from an xobox forum...

Prince

02-05-2003, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by Future Starlocke
I'm noticing a frightening trend... you seem to love to disect other people's posts and try to alienate their input...

And everyone else did not just do the same? :rolleyes:

Shmagoolski

02-05-2003, 03:21 AM

THE CONSOLE WARS II: THE QUOTE WARS

Michael Bluth

02-05-2003, 03:22 AM

I don't invite anybody to come here, jeez. And Starlocke, Link is doing the same thing, as are you.

DLX

02-05-2003, 03:47 AM

Originally posted by Prince

Oh, only NPD, IGN, Gamespy, Gamespot, UBS Warburg, and every other stats. Your right, theyre lying.

Heres the stats:

Europe:
Xbox - 1.8 million
Gamecube - 1.4 million

This is the only significant lead they have, and if you compare it to the lead nintedo has in Japan, this lead is almost Insignificant. and if they stated that the xbox is indeed ahead of the gamecube, its obviously only for the time being, i bet you can't quote any one of those sites for saying something like "Xbox is Already won the battle for second place" when theres still 3 to 4 more years left of competition.

NPD USA Cumulative Installed Base:

PS2: 15,870,000
XBOX: 4,601,000
GCN: 3,583,000

WOW!! there ahead a little over 1 million units..Really man thats not a big deal. That can all change in a heart beat, you still havent proved the Xbox is killing The Gamecube. Japan is waay ahead of Xbox in Japan, and that lead is far more significant then either of these two leads.

Australia:
XBOX: 225,000
GCN: 45,000

Australia doesnt really matter in the scheme of things.

Really man, face it.

Face what?? That you dont Know what a lead is?

If there was no plans to port them, why do you think they would correct their "Gamecube exclusive" statement? It's obvious theyre thinking about it.

Like i said, there thinking about it, doesnt mean they will, they simply stated they my or may not do it.

Does that mean anything? I don't care about previous track records, because if we went by that Zelda would have sold a million by now. Today is different then before.

ok Dumbass, Zelda sold 400,000 copies in Jap[an and made the top 20 list for 2002 and it was release in November of that year. Final Fantasy 10 has to daye sold 4,000,000 copies, to this date, and it was released a little over a year ago. And if you think sales will somehow decrease for the Zelda and Final Fantasy series then you really shouldnt call yourself a gamer.

And? So have alot of Xbox and Ps2 games. If you add online to them they have more interested people that will buy both the broadband/56k adapter, AND the game.

I Never said they didnt dumbass, i made that comment because you implied that Mario and Metroid havent been selling well when they obviously have.

And? Splinter Cell which launched the same day outsold it. Nothing to brag about, considering MP has been advertised everywhere and made game of the year.

Again an invalid statement by an invalid individual, I Made my previous statement To Proove Metroid has been selling, in no place did i compare it to Splinter cell. Its also nothing to brag about because GCN and PS2 owners will have the chance to play it very soon.

Because GBA is a portable. You think people like to play GBA on their TV? Maybe a few thousand may be interested but its not going to sell well - thats probably one of the reasons its only coming out in Jet Black - to keep production costs low.

You Dont know that, maybe some people are interested in playing it on there TV, youre no one to predict that.

Kliq

02-05-2003, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by Shmagoolski
THE CONSOLE WARS II: THE QUOTE WARS

JackieChanIsGOD

02-05-2003, 03:58 AM

Originally posted by Prince

Because GBA is a portable. You think people like to play GBA on their TV? Maybe a few thousand may be interested but its not going to sell well - thats probably one of the reasons its only coming out in Jet Black - to keep production costs low.

And, they haven't said that aren't bringing the other colours out...
They've just annouced black first...
I hate xobox kids...

Dark_Cloud

02-05-2003, 04:08 AM

geez, whats with the hate for x-box. You guys only hate it because it is a newcommer and is beating nintendo who has been there forever. The only reason x-box and PS2 are doing so well is because they take risks. For microsoft, coming into the Console business was a huge risk. Nintendo doesnt do anything. All they do is play it safe. And they do stupid stuff like what they did to zelda. I like cell shading and i thing that is a good idea, but they just didnt cell shade it, they made link look like a little girl. If they had cool cell shading like in Dark Cloud 2, then that would be a diferent story.

Prince

02-05-2003, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
This is the only significant lead they have, and if you compare it to the lead nintedo has in Japan, this lead is almost Insignificant. and if they stated that the xbox is indeed ahead of the gamecube, its obviously only for the time being, i bet you can't quote any one of those sites for saying something like "Xbox is Already won the battle for second place" when theres still 3 to 4 more years left of competition.

Who said the Xbox had it won? Nobody. Thats the analysts job to repeat, not mine.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
WOW!! there ahead a little over 1 million units..Really man thats not a big deal. That can all change in a heart beat, you still havent proved the Xbox is killing The Gamecube. Japan is waay ahead of Xbox in Japan, and that lead is far more significant then either of these two leads.

Yeah, Cube will suddenly sell a million consoles in a heartbeat. Get real! You downplay a million gap, yet you don't downplay the GCN - Xbox gap in Japan? This makes up for most of it, and the lead in Europe and Australia also help.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Australia doesnt really matter in the scheme of things.

Why not?

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Face what?? That you dont Know what a lead is?

I just showed you the leads. "WOW!! there ahead a little over 1 million units..Really man thats not a big deal." - that shows me that you don't know much about what a lead is.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
ok Dumbass, Zelda sold 400,000 copies in Jap[an and made the top 20 list for 2002 and it was release in November of that year. Final Fantasy 10 has to daye sold 4,000,000 copies, to this date, and it was released a little over a year ago. And if you think sales will somehow decrease for the Zelda and Final Fantasy series then you really shouldnt call yourself a gamer.

Sorry to dissapoint but its not selling at the rate past Zelda games are. Even Mario Party 4 - a far worse game is outselling it in Japan. Zelda's weekly sales have fell greatly.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
I Never said they didnt dumbass, i made that comment because you implied that Mario and Metroid havent been selling well when they obviously have.

They obviously have. But they haven't boosted hardware - and those are two of Nintendos 3 big heavy hitters. That doesn't say much for Zelda to push GCN units out the doors remarkably fast.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
Again an invalid statement by an invalid individual, I Made my previous statement To Proove Metroid has been selling, in no place did i compare it to Splinter cell. Its also nothing to brag about because GCN and PS2 owners will have the chance to play it very soon.

Thats the point. a 3rd party Xbox game outsold Nintendos Game of the Year and best GCN game, even though MP had much better advertising and such. I'm not bragging about Splinter Cell.

Originally posted by DarkLink-xXx
You Dont know that, maybe some people are interested in playing it on there TV, youre no one to predict that.

Take your own advice. You say nobodys looking forward to the games that Phantagram listed, yet you say "You don't know that maybe some people are interested" Umm...yeah.

Originally posted by JackieChanIsGOD

And, they haven't said that aren't bringing the other colours out...
They've just annouced black first...
I hate xobox kids...

No, the other colors are for Japan. America only gets black as of now. http://cube.ign.com/articles/384/384712p1.html