MGS4 Real-Time Video Demonstration

[CrumCon]

Incase you people have missed the real-time MGS4 video @ TGS months ago, you could download it here:

http://s64.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=39JO8J1W78SQ61GWAIVM0SCJQB

My mind just almost couldn't accept it as real-time, cause its too i mean too good. even otacon on that tiny LCD screen IS REAL-TIME. And they said it's only getting better from here on,,

off: topic. Im not bashing Nintendo on my own topic, but Iwata is wrong about graphics is not important in gaming world, especially next-generation.

Powerpul console = better graphics = more pobillities = better gameplay = inteligent games.

what do you think about this video

[Viper]

You are missing his meaning. He's not saying they are unimportant (In fact, I can quote him where says they are very important if you want it), but rather it shouldn't be the most important aspect of next gen.


MGS$, I mean MGS4, still looking incredible. I'm only worried that realism in motion, emotion, nature, etc will keep up with the realism in the details consistantly.

[Saibo]

off: topic. Im not bashing Nintendo on my own topic, but Iwata is wrong about graphics is not important in gaming world, especially next-generation.

Powerpul console = better graphics = more pobillities = better gameplay = inteligent games.

what do you think about this video

I never agree with Nintendo on a number of things, also this video has been posted in the MGS4 sticky thread. still it could use its own thread, since people might miss it in the mGS4 thread.

http://files.filefront.com/MGS4+PS3+Devkit+TGS+Demo+Eng/;4440530;;/fileinfo.html

[jako]

My god, it is said on this video something close to :
"as many polygones in snake's moustache than on an entire MGS3 monster"
That impress me a lot.
Also "hairs done with 60.000 polygones".
Defenetly next-gen.

[CrumCon]

wow hairs done with 60K polys!
even in PGR3 on Xbox360 is using 60K polys for a CAR

amazing

[Viper]

Wait, 60k on a single hair? Sounds like overkill and I'd hate to be on the guy stuck rendering a few strands of hair the entire development cycle.

[CrumCon]

i think 60K for the whole hair cut

[VG Aficionado]

wow hairs done with 60K polys!
even in PGR3 on Xbox360 is using 60K polys for a CAR

amazingActually, they said 60K vertices with applied physics. That means more than 120K or 150K triangles in practice, I think. And that's just the hair, which is a very power consuming thing but there will be many other things on screen at the same time... and MGS4 will run at 60fps while PGR3 runs at about 30fps.

The moustache has more polygons than soldiers in MGS3. Main characters were comprised of ~2K polygons and soldiers probably had less than that since their faces and other things were slightly less detailed. Anyway, this means the moustache alone has no less than 2000 polygons and up to 3000 polygons.

Knowledgeable forum members, correct me if I'm wrong please.

[Z]

there is a difference in the 'are graphics important' discussion.
of course they are. and Ninty knows it. but what are we taling about here when saying'graphics' is an interpitation of power. for example; if system A has much more power graphics, we get the idea it is technically superior. from that we can say it can have better physics, animation, emotion, expression, etc. and that is my argument why graphics are important. that is what we usually mean by graphics.

and VG, if you are correct in the 120k polygon for the hair alone, that means we read right that the Bladestorm character's face alone was made with 170k polys. at the time it was hard to believe. nearly all of us thought it was for the entire character. 1k polys for a head in PS2. 170k for one on PS3. can anything scream next-gen louder?

[Domination]

You are missing his meaning. He's not saying they are unimportant (In fact, I can quote him where says they are very important if you want it), but rather it shouldn't be the most important aspect of next gen.


MGS$, I mean MGS4, still looking incredible. I'm only worried that realism in motion, emotion, nature, etc will keep up with the realism in the details consistantly.

I totally agree.

[Domination]

there is a difference in the 'are graphics important' discussion.
of course they are. and Ninty knows it. but what are we taling about here when saying'graphics' is an interpitation of power. for example; if system A has much more power graphics, we get the idea it is technically superior. from that we can say it can have better physics, animation, emotion, expression, etc. and that is my argument why graphics are important. that is what we usually mean by graphics.

and VG, if you are correct in the 120k polygon for the hair alone, that means we read right that the Bladestorm character's face alone was made with 170k polys. at the time it was hard to believe. nearly all of us thought it was for the entire character. 1k polys for a head in PS2. 170k for one on PS3. can anything scream next-gen louder?

I was thinking about that a few days ago. :)

[Saibo]

I was thinking about that a few days ago. :)

dont get too excite, 60,000 vertices could mean anything, he really didnt go into it deep enough. 60,000 / 3 = 20,000 triangles/polygons thats being conservative. I dont thing they are using raw polygon per sae, they are probably using guide hair, kinda like a real hair implementation(but tahts a wild guess).

it could be 60,000 vertice worth of guide hairs, dont know what guide hairs are?:

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showpost.php?p=882172&postcount=860

[Sephiroth_VII]

Hideo Kojima recently spoke with PSM magazine, and they actually managed to get some new info out of the old man about MGS4. Here are some of the highlights. It seems that MGS4 is going to feature some sweeping changes, some that may not even reflect what we saw in the trailer. Apparently almost everything is still not 100% nailed down. Here are the highlights.

"The whole environment changes in real time, so the player controling Snake has the option to make any sort of involvement they would like to in order to progress the game"

"...But in the near-future war, it's more like a business, so there's lots of money involved, meaning they'll hire mercenaries to fight on behalf of their country."

The whole Sanke injecting something into his neck sequence in the trailer may not be featured in the game at all.

Stamina will most likely make a return in MGS4, and he is "...still undecided on the food capture system."

"Will you ever control it yourself to scout ahead or take pictures?" [Otacon's Robot]

"Yes. We're tyring to do it at this stage, but if the game comes out and those features are not in the game, please realize that it was because we couldn't do it for a good reason. We had the plan for a remote controlled robot for even MGS2, however, due to the specs of the PS2, we couldn't do it."
Apparently Kojima has even thought about having a second player or even using the PSP to control it, how cool is that.

Raiden is popular in Japan supposedly; they are making him a "cool" character this time around. "There's even potential you'll like him more than Snake!" Not likely.

"...in MGS4, yes, we will try to make Snake control anything that's possible" He was talking about vehicles.

Kojima said "I might have second thoughts about a younger Snake if everyone thinks he looks too old."

Kojima is still working out how many years after MGS2 this game will take place. He said it might be as many as 10 years, but nothing is set in stone.

Great news!

[VG Aficionado]

A younger Snake than the one in the teaser trailer IS NOT good news. He is a richer character in old age and brings him the potential to be more interesting in MGS4, as opposed to an one-dimensional, always young and seemingly always-same-age-and-no-physical-evolution-throughout-the-years character (e.g. Sam Fisher).

[Ice Phoenix]

After watching that demostration did anyone else catch that when they were showing Otacon in the screen and changing the lighting they said he really wasn't in a safe place but in a room on the outskirts of the town? Then when they changed the light and moved the lighting on Otacon showing it was being fully rendered in realtime it effected the lighting where Snake was! Just watch the lighting on the Mach II (I think thats what its called) when they move the light around on Otacon, now that is truly next-gen! Color me impressed.

[senas8]

Ohh My *&fg ...unreal!!

[Theo]

there is a difference in the 'are graphics important' discussion.
of course they are. and Ninty knows it. but what are we taling about here when saying'graphics' is an interpitation of power. for example; if system A has much more power graphics, we get the idea it is technically superior. from that we can say it can have better physics, animation, emotion, expression, etc. and that is my argument why graphics are important. that is what we usually mean by graphics.

and VG, if you are correct in the 120k polygon for the hair alone, that means we read right that the Bladestorm character's face alone was made with 170k polys. at the time it was hard to believe. nearly all of us thought it was for the entire character. 1k polys for a head in PS2. 170k for one on PS3. can anything scream next-gen louder?


All this stuff makes me wonder how incredibly detailed those charecters in Tekken and Soul Calibur (for example) are going to look, considering a game like MGS4 with a lot of stuff happenning at the same time on screen is already delivering such numbers from a alpha/beta kit. Perhaps we could indeed reach that level we saw in the next-gen tekken teaser at E3, eh Z? Can't wait to see!

[edofall]

just because snake has X amount of poly's on him does not mean that every single character in the game will have that many. look at half life 2 for instence. Alex had an insane amount of poly's in her face to show emotion while soldiers had to add up all the poly's on their entire body to equal what she had for just her face....anyone understand that?

[Z]

yes and we don't care as long as it looks good. Lair's main character has 170K polys. the rest (we are talking dozins at a time) are each made with 100k polys!

you see, the fact that only a small mustache or hair of the main character is this complexed is an indicator of how amazing the whole seen will be. you think they will use 90% of system resources for a wig?

Perhaps we could indeed reach that level we saw in the next-gen tekken teaser at E3, eh Z? Can't wait to see!
HOORAH! obviously the face close-up is just for show (like Molina's head) but I believe we will see the detail of when they showed a full body pic.

we just need to wait till Feb. (or CES if we're lucky) to seal the deal.

[julps31]

just because snake has X amount of poly's on him does not mean that every single character in the game will have that many. look at half life 2 for instence. Alex had an insane amount of poly's in her face to show emotion while soldiers had to add up all the poly's on their entire body to equal what she had for just her face....anyone understand that?Yeah but in a game like Tekken, each character receives the same amount of detail and attention (except the spectators). So just seeing the amount of detail in Snake in MGS4 (wich is a more complex game visual) is an indicator the games with more simple scenes will be able to look similar to what we've seen at E3.

[Danji]

HOORAH! obviously the face close-up is just for show (like Molina's head) but I believe we will see the detail of when they showed a full body pic.

we just need to wait till Feb. (or CES if we're lucky) to seal the deal.
Don't get their hopes up like that! Tekken will be quite something and I think the trailer they showed for it accurately depicts the graphic detail on the PS3 we can expect from Tekken.

[Sephiroth_VII]

hmm.
Can't download the file...
Anyone else having problems?

[Media]

I am too.