Damage ! - lets hit somethin !

[CARTIER90]

I remember Driver back in 99' was the first time i thought wow !, look at that bumper, in fact more than the bumper , the whole chassis of the car looked warped and twisted. On the car theme Driv3r aint to bad on the damage front.
Of course we will see a continuation of the portrayal of damage in this upcoming generation. What would be nice to see however is a SIMULATION of damage that is dynamic, not a generic 10 /15 stage level of destruction.
I admit I am technically challenged, but one of you should know if this is possible ?, it would be nice if say I throw a grenade into a room, a blast wave is simulated to blow out windows , doors, inner walls instead of leaving the obligatory 'stain' on the floor .
Ive seen the pretty 'real time' movie at E3 of the gas station being blown up , into 'thousands' (was it thousands) of pieces, tech demos aside, will we see such care taken into in-game damage ?

One could 'cheat' such an effect i guess by having more generic states, this would be better but it would be better if the objects in the game world had real physical properties. I should for example be able to have a slight bump at 2 mph and dent a bumper but at 10 mph it would dent it right it .

Speaking of damage in cars and bringing up Driver again, I think we need to see real catastrophic damage in racing games, GT5 will have damage im sure, but will i be able to squash a formula one car into its component parts leaving only the safety cage of the driver ala real life ?

I know its easy to say i want , without knowing the limits of a console, but i would be happier with present gen gfx with the above sophistication than what we have seen from the 360 with more generic damage. Devs need to stop with the eye candy and boast about how AI and phyics have improved !

[jaxmkii]

I remember Driver back in 99' was the first time i though wow !, look at that bumper, in fact more than the bumper , the whole chassis of the car looked warped and twisted. On the car theme Driv3r aint to bad on the damage front.
Of course we will see a continuation of the portrayal of damage in this upcoming generation. What would be nice to see however is a SIMULATION of damage that is dynamic, not a generic 10 /15 stage level of destruction.
I admit I am technically challenged, but one of you should know if this is possible ?, it would be nice if say I through a grenade into a room, a blast wave is simulated to blow out windows , doors, inner walls instead of leaving the obligatory 'stain' on the floor .
Ive seen the pretty 'real time' movie at E3 of the gas station being blown up , into 'thousands' (was it thousands) of pieces, tech demos aside, will we see such care taken into in-game damage ?

One could 'cheat' such an effect i guess by having more generic states, this would be better but it would be better if the objects in the game world had real physical properties. I should for example be able to have a slight bump at 2 mph and dent a bumper but at 10 mph it would dent it right it .

Speaking of damage in cars and bringing up Driver again, I think we need to see real catastrophic damage in racing games, GT5 will have damage im sure, but will i be able to squash a formula one car into its component parts leaving only the safety cage of the driver ala real life ?

I know its easy to say i want , without knowing the limits of a console, but i would be happier with present gen gfx with the above sophistication than what we have seen from the 360 with more generic damage.

have you seen the damage in Flatout? well anyway yea i totaly suport this once again i want to state the total lack of attention physcics has gotton on this next gen.

[masonite]

i've also been wondering as to the ability to have write offs on ps3. i know Kazunori Yamauchi has come out and said there would be damage in GT5, but im not sure whether that was real-time dynamic sort of stuff or just swapping out panels. he did say he could now render the undeside of the car now though, allowing for flips...
environmental effects is another thing i've been wondering about. eg. if you go across the gravel in GT5, will you get an accumulation of dust around the wheels and bumpers, rubber build up on the rear bumper over longer races, dirt and grime around the exhausts with the le mans racers......and better particle effects too.

[CARTIER90]

Regarding GT5, ^^ how badly does the series need damage !,forget better AI, just let me bust my opponent up ( great in multiplayer :) )

[Garfunkel]

I completely agree.

PS. i have always thought that the gas station thing was GTA

[CARTIER90]

^^^ i think it was a isolated tech demo unreleted to any game, if there were anything regarding next gen GTA, i woulda remembered !

[Garfunkel]

yeah i know, i guess i just realy want next gen gta to look like that.

[Rapture]

i know Kazunori Yamauchi has come out and said there would be damage in GT5, but im not sure whether that was real-time dynamic sort of stuff or just swapping out panels.

KZ said the only reason gt4 didnt have any damage was because he couldnt do dynamic performance effecting damage and wouldnt settle for just prerendered panel swaps. if the ps3 is as powerful as we hope i think we'll see something amazing from gt5 in terms of damage. :)

[Nodieza]

Yeah it was just a cell tech demo, gas station thing. How about Killing day when he shot the oxygen tank thing and everything blew up and the door crumbled watch the explosion frame by frame and you'll see crazy physics, same with Heavenly sword, the tables and stuff flying.

Physics is one thing I love, Half Life 2 was like "no way!!! *throwing a can up a ladder and watching it roll down realisticly*" HL2 rocked so much, I hope those physics are at least the standard, better would be INSANE!!! can't wait... Untill then Gary's Mod will hold me off ^.^ "Those aren't body's attached to the baloons I swear it" :tada:

Yeah F.E.A.R does that thing with the grenade and glass shattering along with other objects flying!!!!

[Lekko]

I just want to see everything in the game damagable (if that's a word). Nothing like "well, these boxes can move and fly and stuff, but those red ones over there can't" You know how it is, there's a table with a few beakers on it, and the beakers can break, but the radio can't. it won't even move. I just hope nextgen will have everything be movable. The only limitation to that that I see is overwhelming collision detection, and how the heck you are going to stop someone who can break walls from leaving the game.

[masonite]

KZ said the only reason gt4 didnt have any damage was because he couldnt do dynamic performance effecting damage and wouldnt settle for just prerendered panel swaps. if the ps3 is as powerful as we hope i think we'll see something amazing from gt5 in terms of damage. :)


noice.......as long as i don't write off my formula gran turismo on the last lap of a 24 hour race..... knowing me it'll probably happen..... and i'm guessing that this will in turn improve the abysmal "bumper car" collision effects....

[Nodieza]

Lekko I understand now, Yeah I think it should be like Red Faction but they should but an invisible barrier after you get so deep or they'd definitly have to limit the destruction some way to keep the game playable ^.^ "Dammit man quit shooting the circuit breaker, we wanna play with the lights ON!!!!" stuff like that, Gta would be limitless.... ahh just thinking about it is overwhelming. I dunno know if your FULL dream will ever come true, but it will be much more of a reality next gen.

[Nameless]

Cartier, I completely agree with your statements regarding real world physics in next-gen gaming. The only thing you have to consider with racing sims is real car damage that effects performance may increase the difficulty to the point of no longer being entertaining. Here me out on this one; imagine playing online to have idiots who have no chance of winning crashing into other cars just to eliminate the winners from completing the race. Also, imagine if your winning a race and make a mistake on a corner costing you the race. Here's another senario that would be very frustrating you are winning a race and the computer crashes into you on a tight corner ending your race. The examples I just described occur in real racing and sound cool, but if cars are damage and pieces fly into your car potentially creating damage causing you to lose a race could become very frustrating. I believe GT5 will implement this, but will allow you to turn the feature on and off.

I think real world physics in war sims and other games would add a lot to the experience, but real world damage in a racing sim could have a negative effect regarding the playability of the game. When creating a game it's not easy to balance reality and entertainment. Think about the MGS series one man behind enemy lines, it's a senario that is based in fiction not fact. One man vs an army of trained killers would end with one result Solid Snake being killed before the game starts... I know we all want richer gaming experiences, but remember it's still entertainment and that's the number one priorty. If AI & physics emulate the real world the results may not be what you have in mind. We need a healthy balance and that requires a lot of skill with level designs, it's going to take time and trial and error to get it just right...That's my 2 cents.

[Handycrap101]

I honestly don't think Polyphony cars about if the player is frustrated or not (see driving tests and driving missions). They will strive to create the most realistic driving experience no matter what the cost may be. If it will be challengeing then so be it... It's not like someone was never pissed at a game before. In the end when you finally do complete it you will have a sence of satisfaction and releif like no other. I'm not saing that they should make it impossible but adding that element into the game sure will add alot more that you have to worry about. I also think it would be cool if you had to repair your car if it got wrecked. That would force people to drive more carefully and make them practice a track fully untill they understand it and they are fully confident and ready to race.

Now of course I'm only talking about the GT series. This is the only series this kind of damage depth would work simply because people play it for the realism and challenge. More arcade games it WOULDN'T work because people who play those games just want that pick up and play experience. They wouldn't want to deal with all of that. I guess what I'm saying is that yes, in certain games that kind of depth in the damage would be cool and would add to the driving simulator experience. So for games like that it should be included. But for other, for arcade like games they should just stick to adding more damage just for looks and leave the physics alone.

[Nameless]

Handy, Agreed...
Just remember my statement regarding level design and game mechanics, it's a balancing act...

[Nameless]

Also, this thread could be merged with my AI, Physics, animation thread. Just a thought...

[Shai-Hulud]

I hope they even implement damage simulations such as pistons and rods breaking, axels being torn off and rims getting the "oval" treatment. And the licence tests would contain handling the engine rpm`s, paying attention to boost pressure and oil temp and so forth. "don`t rev that bastard too hard son. A new RX-7 engine ain`t cheap you know.." The possibility to turn the damage sim off, or to make it less realistic, has to be there though.