Toshiba's New Chip inside PS3!

[Kb-smoker]

"Toshiba researchers described a critical audio/video I/O chip expected to surface in Sony's Playstation 3 when it debuts sometime next spring. The SCC, a "super companion chip" with A/V interface, works with the so-called Cell Processor"

PS3 has so many unknowns....

http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=11014

stolen from beyond 3d.


That's one amazing I/O chip, and it would make sense if Sony used it inside the PS3. The logic behind it, is that Sony has not indicated the I/O chip it is using, and it needs one, and this chip fits perfectly with all those I/O ports that Sony is offering on the PS3.

The chip coupled with CELL will allow the PS3 to record TV shows to a HD, while you are playing a video game, or browsing the net, etc. It will easily provide this! You could even record TV shows, while recording your game in MPEG2 format at the same time!!!

Sony's ambitions for the PS3 is amazing, as it will certainly be a mega poweful game console/computer/video-audio/media center of the home.

Toshiba said production is ready for mid-2005 so this device is certainly ready for the PS3 introduction next year.

I am really hyped for the overall potential of the PS3. It's going to be a media monster integrating and combining so many different formats and capabilities.

Thanks a lot for this awesome exciting news! It's been too quiet lately on the PS3 front.


:buldge:

[Handycrap101]

Hey, Kb where have you been?? Can you help explain to a computer illiterate person what that chips does to enhance the gaming/entertainment experience?

[Kb-smoker]

Hey, Kb where have you been?? Can you help explain to a computer illiterate person what that chips does to enhance the gaming/entertainment experience?
it's getting close to xmas so i have been really busy.

anyways....check out this site and it goes over a lot of features this chips add.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13284367@N00/57517281/

[Saibo]

the SCC was design to work on the Toshiba Cell Reference Set, besides look at the date of that article: ( August 24, 2005 ). I doubt that the SCC would be used in the PS3, since the Cell is going to do all the sound processing among other things...

[stanDarsh]

This "super companion chip" has been known about for quite some time, however it is unknown whether it will be used in PS3, I personally don't believe it will be, but you never know.

[Crossbar]

the SCC was design to work on the Toshiba Cell Reference Set, besides look at the date of that article: ( August 24, 2005 ). I doubt that the SCC would be used in the PS3, since the Cell is going to do all the sound processing among other things...
I feel a strong smell of BS. A lot of redundant stuff i the SCC, that the PS3 does not need, a DDR MMU, Firewire etc. Edge credibility will suffer from those comments IMO.

What do you think about this quote from the article:
"Dubbed the RSX Reality Synthesizer, it can perform 136 shader operations per second with its multiple programmable shading processors."
I think that give the standard of the article.

[VG Aficionado]

Another rumour says that Sony could use a today cheap Emotion Engine as PS3 I/O chip very much like PS2 used PS1's processor, but I think someone said that it was like using a revolver to kill a mosquito.

[xbdestroya]

I seriously do not think the Super Companion Chip is going into PS3 - the market it targets is slightly different, and like others have said the features which it could bring to the PS3 can already be handled elsewhere.

[CrumCon]

Just because it could works tegether with CELL chip doesnt mean its for PS3.

Toshiba may release HD recorder in the future, and this chip may be used along with Cell chip for the recorder.
Just like Sony, they would use CELL chip in many of their electronic devices in the future. A companion chip may be developed later for these electronics.

[Z]

hey, recording your game play? now that is something to think about. that would be a very cool idea! *starts thinking where to store all the 'Ownage!' game replays*

this will also give 'game guids' a whole new meaning by having small and short videos of specific points.

[Sephiroth_VII]

um, we've been able to record gaming sessions, ever since consoles could plug in to VCR's...

[Maya 5.0]

But on this level it seems to be all in one package(PS3).Record online gameplay with your clan then after a tournament replay your match in (HD?).All of this with only a few button to push on your controller.The less extra hardware the better.

[RzrWire]

Actually I've got footage of my entire game of RE2 on VHS. I've got some great close calls on there plus I did it without saves. I think I did the same thing for a couple Twisted Metal games, Warhawk, and Destruction Derby 2.

Edit: Doing it on VHS was a pain plus the quality isn't that great. With PS3 is would be like TiVo is for cable TV only in HD. Not to mention you would be able to edit your recording and put together a very professional looking clip of all your greatest moments from PS1, PS2, and PS3 games that you play

[edofall]

one of my friends is able to record video from his tv to his computer and then burn the movie to a dvd, and i must say that watching Gran turismo 4 and BDZ Budaki tenki is mighty fun. but to be able to view that in HD and without having to do all that converting would be very nice, but i cant really see sony putting that in ps3.

[RzrWire]

one of my friends is able to record video from his tv to his computer and then burn the movie to a dvd, and i must say that watching Gran turismo 4 and BDZ Budaki tenki is mighty fun. but to be able to view that in HD and without having to do all that converting would be very nice, but i cant really see sony putting that in ps3.

With a hard drive and Linux anything is possible. :cheers:

[Saibo]

With a hard drive and Linux anything is possible. :cheers:

I dont know about that, even with the SC chip, wont the PS3 HDD spinning at 7,200 RPM cause a bottleneck? :swear:

Im really looking forward to programming in Linux on the PS3, even looking into programming model for Cell, even parallel programming language(theres alot of them).

[RzrWire]

I dont know about that, even with the SC chip, wont the PS3 HDD spinning at 7,200 RPM cause a bottleneck? :swear:

To be honest I don't think it will with the Cell's capabilities but I don't know much about how the interaction between the HDD and PS3 itself will work. Anyone with more insight on this subject please elaborate if this could be a possibility.

[rotorhead]

The following link is a document posted at Cell industries.

as this is my first post please remove "" to the below link to make it work and copy into your browser.

"cell-industries.com/SCC_Details1.pdf"


The intresting thing to note about this document is page 2 section 3.

It seems to indicate quite clearly that the SCC will be in PS3. Which makes sense if Sony wants to make the PS3 a Location free TV server.

[Hrama]

Huh.... well doesn't that just beat all. It looks pretty impressive for video and audio functions and that pdf. certainly makes it seem like it fits the bill.

[RzrWire]

rotorhead ~ Great first post and welcome to the forums :spiny:

[Crossbar]

The following link is a document posted at Cell industries.

as this is my first post please remove "" to the below link to make it work and copy into your browser.

"cell-industries.com/SCC_Details1.pdf"


The intresting thing to note about this document is page 2 section 3.

It seems to indicate quite clearly that the SCC will be in PS3. Which makes sense if Sony wants to make the PS3 a Location free TV server.
I do not believe anything of this until Sony or Toshiba confirms it.

That document is very unprofessional, there is even a photography of a Toshiba slide!!!! That does not indicate a very close relationship to Toshiba IMO. They may very possibly have got that PS3 information from the original thread article.

I do not rule out there will be a Toshiba chip in PS3, but that is more likely to be a subset of the SCC.

[rotorhead]

I agree that the document and indeed the web site cannot be directly linked to Toshiba or Sony. I am interested,Crossbar, to know what you think will be dropped from the SCC for inclusion into the PS3. Personally I think that the SCC has everything that Sony will want and need. It offers a lot of features both analog and digital on one piece of silicon.

[Garfunkel]

Welcome to the forums rotorhead!

Well, i think it would be a very smart move for sony to put this chip in there, considering it was designed for cell and sony realy wants cell to succeed.

[rotorhead]

Thanks for all the welcomes, I've been reading this site for a while, have never had much to contribute, I'm not really a graphics kind of Guy, my background is semiconductors and electronics and Computer Science.

Back on topic, the SCC.

I think some people have the wrong idea about this chip and its role in the PS3 universe, that is if it is even in the PS3 universe.

Here are some of the reasons why I think it will be in the PS3.

First the Digital Domain

Gigabit Ethernet Network interface supplied by SCC.

USB interface supplied by SCC.

third party silicon WLAN and Bluetooth devices connected via PCI bus supplied by SCC.

Hard disk drive connected via PATA interface supplied by SCC.

That takes care of the Digital domain.

Now for the Analogue.

Audio out
There are two ways of connecting your digital audio device to the outside world, one is to take the audio stream created in the digital domain by the Cell and use a DAC (Digital to Analogue converter) supplied by the SCC to converter it to analogue and send out a stereo analogue signal via standard phono interconnects, all done by the SCC.
The other is to send it out via a digital interface, there are two common ones in genereal domestic use S/PIDF (S/PDIF stands for Sony/Philips Digital Interface) and TOSLINK ( or more properly EIAJ optical developed by Toshiba)
The SCC has Audio Digital transmission interface available.

Video out
Video can now be output in digital domain and the analogue. Analogue being the most common.
The SCC may actually have a ramdac onboard to convert digital output from RSX to component and/or composite outputs.

The video in and audio in are going to be required if Sony intends the PS3 to be used as a location free TV server. In this application the tv signal that is output from your cable/dss box has to be converted from the Analogue domain into the digital domain and then into an mpeg2/4 stream and then it has to be transmitted onto the internet or your local LAN to the receiving device(PSP). Surprise surprise the SCC does that. The cell maybe required to do some of the encoding. Some of the slides have pointed to the SCC and Cell being able to take an HDTV analogue signal and encode it into MPEG2/4 as well as resize the ouput, if this can be done in real time, then HDTV location free tv could be here.

I like to think that the SCC will be in the PS3 because it opens up possibilities far beyond gaming if it is. As I'm in my thirties I need the PS3 to do more then play great games.

The question becomes is it cheaper for Sony to use this one device to achieve all of its I/O requirements or maybe buy in multiple devices that are functionally simpler. Draw backs to this approach are numerous and not limited to the few I am going to mention. The first is the problem of multiple suppliers, two there is the problem that the parts are not specifically designed for FLEXIO and finally and not least the complexity of the mother board is increased.

As for a reduced version of SCC I don't believe that to be a cost effective approach, for the limited cost savings per die, the cost of redesigning and respining the silicon probably is not worth while.

The only item I see that will not be used in the SCC is the DDR2 memory controller, firewire may yet make an appearance.

My 2 cents, feel free to comment.

[Garfunkel]

hmmmm good post there but i am curious because you seem to have experiece in this feild, what do you think about the cell processor itself and what disadvantages you think cell has?

But i aggree that this chip needs to be in ps3 to take full advantage of the cell processor, i think it will be in the ps3 cause sony just seems to wanna push cell to no end and this would cirtaintly help them...

[Crossbar]

I agree that the document and indeed the web site cannot be directly linked to Toshiba or Sony. I am interested,Crossbar, to know what you think will be dropped from the SCC for inclusion into the PS3. Personally I think that the SCC has everything that Sony will want and need. It offers a lot of features both analog and digital on one piece of silicon.
I think the DDRAM and PCI interfaces has to go, just to many pins for functions the PS3 does not need. Remember the PS3 has to be cheap to produce, every chip has to be lean and mean. They can´t afford having those pins hanging around for no use.

The firewire interface is redundant when you have USB. Hell, even apple has stopped supporting firewire on the i-pods. That is no future interface, though it wouldbe nice if you have a cam-corder with firewire, but I think Sony will skip it. The PS3 is loaded with interfaces compared with the 360, they do not need another one IMO.

PATA is kind of old, they could save some pins and cabling by going for SATA.

As for a reduced version of SCC I don't believe that to be a cost effective approach, for the limited cost savings per die, the cost of redesigning and respining the silicon probably is not worth while..
If you study the design of PS2 and how it has evolved I think you will come up with a different conclusion. When you are producing several million units, every cent counts, believe me.

Ask MS, they are still selling Xbox 1 with a loss for each unit, they are not very happy with that.

I likes your post though, interesting thought about location free TV server, I do not really have any opinion yet about that possibility, I am not sure how big that market is or what appeal it may have to the consumers.