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Crossbar
01-27-2006, 11:10 AM
I could not find that this has been posted yet after searching the forum. Strange as it is a couple of days.
I find it to be a very good description of the current situation.

Comment: PS3 predictions are all shooting in the dark
Rob Fahey 14:26 23/01/2006
Sony's plans for the launch of PlayStation 3 are likely to be one of the biggest factors defining publisher and developer planning for 2006 - but in the absence of hard facts, it's essential to be wary of uninformed speculation, says Rob Fahey.

We'd like to express our sympathy to anyone reading this who is, as some of you probably are, in the unfortunate situation of having to make business decisions based around the launch of PlayStation 3 later this year. In the wake of Microsoft's Xbox 360 launch, with all its attendant supply problems (which are still afflicting retail even now), deciding how to treat a next-generation console launch from a publisher or developer perspective right now is a game not dissimilar to playing Snakes and Ladders. While blindfolded. In a room full of hyperactive monkeys. (crossbar: i.e. analysts).

The situation is hindered significantly by the fact that every pundit has a wildly different view on how Sony's PS3 launch is going to pan out. Typically, US analysts - who often favour the Xbox 360 to take a large chunk of the market in the next generation - seem to be downbeat on the prospects for PS3's early days, while Japanese analysts are generally more convinced by Sony's plans. Those in the Blu-Ray camp are convinced that PS3 will be a conquering hero, HD-DVD's supporters talk darkly about the console costing roughly the national GDP of Sweden to purchase and being shipped in numbers that you can count without having to use all your fingers and toes.

We have a great deal of respect for many analysts in the videogames sector, who have gone to great lengths to gain a deep understanding of the marketplace and its players, and who intelligently apply that knowledge and the insight they gain from countless conversations with industry players across the value chain to make rational and well-argued, if not always entirely accurate, predictions. The videogames industry analysts at Wedbush Morgan Securities and Banc of America Securities both spring to mind in this camp, and they are by no means alone.

However, some of the predictions flying forth this week from analysts have caused raised eyebrows, not least since they are so radically at odds with the message coming out of the industry. The most pessimistic prediction we've heard so far for PS3 comes from Pacific Crest Securities, which believes that PS3 will hit shelves in Japan in summer, then in November in the USA, in both cases with a million units at launch, with a European launch to follow in early 2007.

Under that model, there could be as few as 2.5 to 3 million units of the PS3 worldwide by the end of 2006 - leaving Sony with a huge margin to make up over Microsoft, which expects to have shipped 4.5 to 5.5 million units by this June, let alone next Christmas. If you were to take Pacific Crest's model to heart, you'd have to question whether PS3 was in for an even tougher launch period than Xbox 360 experienced in the run-up to Christmas - and even after such a forecast, the firm's analyst also suggests that manufacturing difficulties could push the console back even further.

That doesn't tie in with what we've heard from publishers in Europe, several of whom have told us that Sony seems adamant on the question of shipping in Europe within 2006 - with a slip to 2007 being avoided "at all costs". It also disagrees with comments from a senior executive at Pioneer, one of Sony's Blu-Ray partners, who claims to have heard that four to seven million PS3 units will ship this year - a rather more healthy figure, and one which suggests a far stronger Christmas than more pessimistic forecasts might suggest.

At the end of the day, much depends on both Blu-Ray and Cell. The former may, to some extent, determine the price point of PS3 - although we're sceptical of claims that a drive targeted at consumers is really going to push the cost of the console up by the hundreds of dollars some commentators seem to believe. The latter will almost certainly determine the shipment figures, with yields from IBM and Sony's plants of this complex chip defining in a very absolute way how many PS3s can be sold.

And ultimately, those two factors are still unknown quantities - about which no analyst really knows any more than any well-informed person in the industry does. Blu-Ray may drive costs up; Cell may drive shipments down; we simply don't know, and won't know for sure until either of those eventualities actually becomes real - or not, as the case may be. Under the circumstances, there's little hard information out there to help the unfortunate people who need to make decisions now about how to handle the PS3 launch - and on a topic like this, it's important to bear in mind, when reading analyst reports or comments from third parties, that your guess probably actually is just as good as theirs.


http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=14211

Garfunkel
01-27-2006, 12:23 PM
good read, shows that analysts know no more than we do.

xbdestroya
01-27-2006, 05:10 PM
Well, it's not that analysts don't in fact have more access to information than the rest of us, it's just that they don't spend the time actually analyzing and debating that we all do. For us it's a passion, for them it's a job sub-set. So I mean I'm pretty hard on analysts most of the time, but it's not as if they couldn't be dead on on some predictions; it's just when there's such a vast disparity between what each one is saying, it's better to rely on your own sensibilities to filter through what makes sense and what doesn't.

But yes, good article Crossbar, sums up the present state of affairs rather nicely.

OmniCloud
01-28-2006, 02:37 PM
sry

OmniCloud
01-28-2006, 02:40 PM
[Japanese analysts weigh in on next-generation consoles
Overseas analysts ponder release dates, success, and prices of the Revolution, PlayStation 3. Xbox 360 still seen as a contender.
The latest issue of Famitsu features comments from Japanese analysts regarding next-generation game consoles, many of which seem to echo predictions made by analysts from the US.

Daiwa Institute of Research senior analyst Eiji Maeda predicts the PlayStation 3 will be released in Japan between April and June, but the console will not have much of a third-party lineup until summer or fall. Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Jay Defibaugh (who's currently working in Credit Suisse's Tokyo branch) predicts a similar release period for the PS3, sometime between May and June.

While Sony still has its PS3 launch set for spring, the analysts predict that the console will come out a bit later since the console's games are behind in development. The PS3 is reportedly difficult to develop for, and while there are 71 developers currently working on 102 games, only eight titles have been announced for release in 2006, with just two slated for spring.

Daiwa's Maeda predicts the PS3 is likely to hold the top share in the next-generation console war, but he cites the lack of launch titles as one of the factors that may affect its sales in 2006. Maeda also says the PS3's Blu-ray drive isn't as strong a sales point as the PlayStation 2's DVD drive. Back in 2000, consumers were drawn to the PS2 because it was also a DVD player, eliminating the need to buy a then-expensive stand-alone player. Another point cited by Maeda is the system's price. Maeda predicts that the PS3 will be priced in the 40,000 yen range ($343) at the lowest, while Nintendo's Revolution will be 30,000 yen ($257) at its highest. He also believes that by the time the PS3 comes out, Microsoft will likely have dropped its price on the Xbox 360.

With regard to the Revolution, Famitsu turns to IT journalist Hiroshige Gotoh. Gotoh believes the Revolution has the possibility of succeeding in the next-generation game war because of its innovation and its unique controller. He explained that the console's uniqueness could still match up against machines with higher specs, much like the way the DS has been outselling the PSP.

So when will the Revolution come out? Nintendo president Satoru Iwata recently told Sankei Journal that his company will need to release the console by Thanksgiving in America to take advantage of the busy shopping season. However, Maeda predicts that the Revolution could come out in Japan as early as June. Maeda also said that the machine would still have a larger launch lineup than the PS3, even if it's released that soon.

Credit Suisse's Defibaugh commented that the Xbox 360's sales in Japan were predicted to be low, but its actual performance was even lower. He thinks that the Japanese market will be dominated by the PS3 if the Xbox 360 continues to see sluggish sales in the country.

Daiwa's Maeda says that Microsoft isn't out of the race yet; the company had released its console half a year before its competitors, which gives it an upper hand in mass production and cost cutting.

Defibaugh and Maeda both think the PlayStation 3 will have half of the market in the worldwide next-generation console war by the end of 2006, followed by the Xbox 360 at 30 percent, and the Revolution at 20 percent.

Well hear's what the Japanese analysts have to say about the console wars... It seems they have a more positive view on Sony and Nintendo while U.S analysts seem to think PS3 might even take second to 360 while Revolution will be in 3rd again. I guess they still don't understand that no matter whats under the hood, its the games that counts...

venomv
01-28-2006, 03:07 PM
Except that this time Sony, has more under the hood, so that thinking would lead them to Sony-MS-Nintendo, providing the Revolution is weaker then the X360, but I'm sure they're thinking that.

woundingchaney
01-28-2006, 03:44 PM
I dont see as to how any analyst can expect 360 to overcome Sony. Although I do expect a strong showing from MS this gen (even though it has been a rocky month and a half). Right now there is just too much left in the air.

cliffbo
01-28-2006, 05:01 PM
I dont see as to how any analyst can expect 360 to overcome Sony. Although I do expect a strong showing from MS this gen (even though it has been a rocky month and a half). Right now there is just too much left in the air.

i think we're being too kind to MS. i predict an absolute debacle for them this generation. this is their last chance and Sony are going to pull out all the stops

woundingchaney
01-28-2006, 05:15 PM
i think we're being too kind to MS. i predict an absolute debacle for them this generation. this is their last chance and Sony are going to pull out all the stops


I dont know personally.
We are only 2 months into the game and predicting the outcome this gen is too far ahead for me. Perhaps we are too kind to Sony, this is a possibility as well. I seriously doubt they come anywhere near matching their numbers from last gen. If anything many of us maybe underwriting Nin., MS is showing some very strong titles in the coming months and if they can get around the supply issue (which Im sure they will) then things maybe significantly closer than they seem. Of course if Sony can manage a NA launch in spring then its going to be one hell of a start for the PS3.

Red_Eyes
01-28-2006, 05:42 PM
The only peoples who know when Sony will launch is Sony themselves, and very important companies like Konami. Even though those companies know, they can't tell anyone yet until Sony let them.

Z
01-28-2006, 06:10 PM
you know something, there are still to much to be known and done about PS3 and Rev. we generally expected some of the issues with X2's launch, but I don't think many thought things would be this underwhelming.
many things could still happen with PS3 and Rev. they could suffer the same set backs and even more. untill all three are on the market and at least 6 months pass since their respective launches, we can't have a precise and accurate forsight.

I agree that, due to a number of factors, Sony has the best chance of winning the majority of the market, yet still, there is much to be known.

for example, if Sony faces similar production and distribution issues as what MS is facing now, that could have noticeable effect on the market a a whole especially when X2 supplies should be healthy by then. add Rev's chances of having a smooth launch and you have a picture on one of the possible turn outs- at least for the near future.

what I am saying is that with the other two major players are yet to even launch, nothing is guaranteed.

bilbobob007
02-27-2006, 02:38 AM
And maybe........, just maybe sony are going to stun us all by actually having loads of units and hitting there release date. They maybe be playing the strong silent types. You know brooding in the corner letting everyone around them blow off like headless chickens. Then bang! Stun us all.
Just a thought anyway.
I'm off now to finish of my glass of wine, sit back and wait.

Infernal
02-27-2006, 03:00 AM
I'm off now to finish of my glass of wine, sit back and wait.
Dont get too drunk, Spring is still a ways to come.

Nodieza
02-27-2006, 03:18 AM
I dont see as to how any analyst can expect 360 to overcome Sony. Although I do expect a strong showing from MS this gen (even though it has been a rocky month and a half). Right now there is just too much left in the air.

Yeah I haven't heard anybody at my school even mention the 360 since the week it came out, even my friend who was mindbent on saving up enough money to buy the 2nd shipment just kinda let go. All the kids that do own one just play Halo 2 still. I really do hope they bring some good games to the table soon.

Crossbar
02-27-2006, 12:42 PM
Here's a fresh article at gamesindustry.biz on the same theme. Also a good description of the current situation:
Comment: Sony cries wolf over PlayStation 3 launch plans

Recent speculation over the launch date of Sony's PS3 may not be particularly well-informed, but it does demonstrate the degree to which both consumers and the industry have lost faith in Sony's ability to deliver on its commitments, says Rob Fahey.

PlayStation 3 remains the mystery console for which far more questions have been posed than answers have ever been offered. Information on the console remains sparse, but to date, Sony hasn't actually broken any of its commitments regarding the platform - largely, it has to be said, because the firm has been incredibly evasive about ever making any such commitments.

All of that may be about to change. Every sign now suggests that Sony is about to break the first of its PS3 promises - specifically, the very tentative "Spring 2006" date which has been attached to the system since the very first official pronouncements were made about the PlayStation's next-generation sibling.

The problem is that the first day of spring on the calendar falls next Wednesday, and from that day Sony has a three-month window in which to launch the console, at least in some form, in order to make good on its commitment. That may not sound unreasonable, but bear in mind that as yet we have no idea what price point is planned for the console, what territory is to be targeted for launch first, what software will be available, what the marketing campaign will look like or even whether the system is being manufactured as yet.

Despite this, Sony is adamant that it will get the machine out the door on schedule. Third parties are less convinced, and we know of few if any in the west who are working on products for a Spring release - although we can't speak for Japanese publishers, who for all we know could be supporting a Spring launch to the hilt, however unlikely that may seem. Retail, meanwhile, is preparing for an autumn / winter launch for the system, and the industry in Europe is hopeful of a pre-Christmas launch, but will express little surprise if we end up seeing the PS3 in March 2007 - despite constant assurances to the contrary which European publishers claim to have received.

Ultimately, the simple problem here is that nobody trusts a word Sony says about its launch schedule. While the paranoid and often overtly negative comments of some analysts and journalists have suggested massive delays to the PS3 for often entirely spurious reasons - and some of the price estimates for the console floating around are downright ridiculous - there's no doubt that Sony's already dubious track record for delivering hardware has taken a serious battering from the botched launch of the PlayStation Portable, and the firm's silence on PS3 isn't helping matters much.

We understand perfectly what a tricky balancing act Sony faces at the moment and over the coming years, with no fewer than three platforms to keep healthy simultaneously in very closely related markets. We understand that Microsoft has forced Sony's hand, and that the Japanese electronics giant would be far happier to just bury the PS3 for many more months and focus on selling more PS2s, more PSPs and more software. However, none of those things change the fact that its current information blackout on PS3 is coming across as sheer arrogance to the rest of the market - and that the industry's implicit assumption is that the firm is lying about the spring date.

After all, if you're going to launch a brand new console platform in three months time, you'd rather if your partners - not just in publishing, but in development, in retail, and even in media - knew about it by now. Secrecy is all very well, but with each passing day the sales of Microsoft's Xbox 360 grow stronger, the software line-up improves, the supply channels become more robust and the company's offering becomes more attractive to consumers. If the spring launch isn't going to happen, or just as importantly, if the spring launch is going to see a dismal trickle of units released into the Japanese market followed by a wait of several before it hits the rest of the world, Sony needs to start telling people now, and letting them know where it goes from here.
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=14930

cybergrue
02-27-2006, 04:57 PM
I was surfing the net this morning, and found a few intresting things.
Engadget had an article about the percieved PS3 delay (imho one of the better articles about Sony not releasing any news, not that that is saying much)
playstation-3-delay-meme (http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/25/playstation-3-delay-meme-part-v-scej-and-afp/)
anyways, at the end of the article was this quote
according to Hirokazu Hamamura, president of Enterbrain Inc. in Japan, had an interesting thing to say: "Sony has not begun taking orders early this month, that means that it would be difficult for the company to begin sales in May."
Which sort of confirms our speculations that the PS3 won't launch till June.

Also, Digg had a story on the horable arstechnica article about the octopiler.
http://www.digg.com/gaming/IBM_s_Octopiler,_or,_why_the_PS3_is_running_late
Anyways, burried in one of the comments was this.
"No Digg. I know a person who works in the IBM chip factory. That person told me that they have already shipped Sony every chip that they've ordered and more. The holdup is definitely elsewhere."
I have no idea if this is real or not but it does make me go hmmm.

Domination
02-27-2006, 11:54 PM
i think we're being too kind to MS. i predict an absolute debacle for them this generation. this is their last chance and Sony are going to pull out all the stops

I doubt that; Microsoft is a pretty persistent firm. But I do believe that Sony is going to make it a lot more difficult for them this time.