Josh Robinson update: his comments on getting fired. Was it fair to fire him?

[Miyahon]

SOE artist defends online article

A former employee of Sony Online Entertainment has spoken out about how an online article criticising the PlayStation 3 ended up getting him fired from the company.

In an interview with PS3week, former SOE 3D artist Josh Robinson said: "All I really did was write a few paragraphs that gave my opinion on publicly released information... I didn’t reveal any tech info and I didn’t reveal different shipping plans. I’m still in awe at the whole uproar over what amounts to NO information."

In January, Robinson posted an article on his blog which read: "Our game just keeps getting moved back... And back... And back. Again, where is the box? Where is the final system? When is it coming out? No one knows and in the mean time people in the industry are starting to get just a little salty."

"You could always tell where the PS3 dev box was because it’s the room that had the F-bomb coming out of it half the day," he added.

But the comments most likely to have riled Sony executives were to do with the PS3's technical capabilities versus those of the Xbox 360: "I’ve also talked with people on the technical side of the Xbox 360. The consistent comment I am hearing from people on my end is, 'The Xbox 360 is better'," Robinson wrote.

"They are saying that it is capable of just doing more."

Robinson told PS3week that he asked at least two Sony employees to read the blog entry before it was posted, and even showed it to an SOE producer. "We were all in agreement that I was not breaking NDA with what I was saying," he said.

However, according to Robinson, he was "Let go at Sony after the article was plopped on the desk of Sony corporate. I was also asked to remove the article immediately, which I did without any resistance."

Although Robinson has defended his right to publish the article, he claims that he has no bad feelings towards SOE: "It was something unfortunate that happened and I sincerely hope Sony isn’t damaged by it... In fact I cannot say enough nice things about the CEO and the VP of the company."

"Did I knowingly break NDA? I absolutely did not. I would never do that and I would never want to hurt Sony Online. Did I dance in the grey area by even opening my mouth? Yes I did and I was fired for it."

Robinson said he received four or five job offers immediately after leaving Sony, and even got a book deal as a result of the article. He has now accepted a new position at an unnamed company in the Santa Monica area - but while Robinson is optimistic about the future, he has clearly learned a lesson from his experience.

"I guess the new rule for me is, don’t ever say anything at all about anything. Ever... Ever."

source: www.gamesindustry.biz

[Coded-Dude]

i don't think hes a bum, but he did deserve what he got.......

[Fats]

Yeah, he should have known what he was saying. It was fair to fire him.

[Domination]

Well, I can't say I'm too happy that the guy got terminated, but he did say more than what he should have. Even if it was his opinion or what he really thought to be possible, being under NDA and an exclusive insider, he should have kep his mouth closed - especially as far as criticism. I mean, if you were trying to sell a car, would you really want to tell the costomer how many problems the car had wrong with it, dispite the difficulty in which they are to fix, compared to others? Wouldn't that sorta jeopardize your sale? Same case, different setting, and I think that's what the guys at SOE saw. Not that I would want to dupe or mislead a person if I were to be in a similiar position, but honestly, I wouldn't want anyone like that representing me neither.

[Crossbar]

His ego was larger than what was good for him.

What was the point of making those posts? Even if he did not break any NDA those posts were interpreted as critisism of his employer. What good could come from going public with it on the internet? Getting some rep in a discussion forum? Get real!!!!

He should have seen it coming.

[Miyahon]

I worked for walmart and criticized them. It's my right.
NDA only means you wont disclose SECRETS, all he did was tell the truth and if your selling a car the right thing to do is tell them the problems so they can plan around it and have them fixed.

Your blaming a guy for telling the TRUTH! He revealed no protected info and said only what was told to him.

[CrumCon]

he goes a little bit too far in my opinion.

Why would an insider from Sony.. says something like : Hey you know what.. i talk to some people last time on technical side of the Xbox 360, they says its better then PS3!

even though he wrote it in his article in soft-way.. but his real intention still telling people that X360 is more powerful then ps3.

[___]

Since when is saying other people are complaining about their job a crime? How does what he said break Non-disclosure agreement.

[venomv]

Hey Miyahon telling to truth is fine, but putting down your company because another company says they are better is just stupid.

But the comments most likely to have riled Sony executives were to do with the PS3's technical capabilities versus those of the Xbox 360: "I’ve also talked with people on the technical side of the Xbox 360. The consistent comment I am hearing from people on my end is, 'The Xbox 360 is better'," Robinson wrote.

"They are saying that it is capable of just doing more."

I'm sure they were being completly unbias when they said there product is better. I could see MS saying that and would have no problem with it, someone from Sony telling everyone MS's opinions of a Sony product is is just plain stupid.

[Coded-Dude]

NDA only means you wont disclose SECRETS
Have you guys ever read or signed a NDA?
Its a little more complicated than what you make it out to be. HE is definately an "insider" and not allowed to discuss insider details PERIOD. Not only did he discuss them(doesn't matter if the info was public or not) but he was negative about them.

Its like a Ford truck engineer stating CHEVY trucks are made better.....
It doesn't matter if its true or not, you're fucking fired! (thats what any large corporation would have said)

[Miyahon]

Have you guys ever read or signed a NDA?
Its a little more complicated than what you make it out to be. HE is definately an "insider" and not allowed to discuss insider details PERIOD. Not only did he discuss them(doesn't matter if the info was public or not) but he was negative about them.

Its like a Ford truck engineer stating CHEVY trucks are made better.....
It doesn't matter if its true or not, you're fucking fired! (thats what any large corporation would have said)
lol, thats true and it's a great metaphor. But i still feel bad for the guy.

[Phryne Astynome]

There is no such thing as job security in the gaming industry. This guy would have been fired eventually even if he didn't say those remarks.

[masonite]

he was using his job at sony to give his statements credibility. if he came on a forum as an anonymous poster and said all of that stuff, he'd still have his job. but because he used his employment at sony to give his criticism credibility, that employment has been terminated. as soon as he announced his position, and his place of employment, he ceased to be Josh Robinson. he became the face of that company, and he represents that company.

[tazz3]

well he really not have said anything.
plus him saying that the PS3 is not next gen was a dumb thing to say

[Viano]

If you consider the company you are working for a family then you shouldnt say things like that and I think Sony treat him not bad too. Yeah I think that idiot deserves it. I don't think he understand Sony.

[Nodieza]

Rules are rules, maybe not a bum but he should've known just a little better.

[BlueTsunami]

Its weird that he states that he has these "friends" in high places (execs? or maybe a little lower) and yet they so easily fired him for this. It either shows how volitile these things are (just keep your mouth shut) or he really did release snipets that weren't big but he had lost the trust of his peers and superiors.

I feel bad for him, but what I also get from the article is a sense of backpeddling also. Wish him all the luck in the world with his next ventures though.

[xbdestroya]

I agree, I feel bad for him - dumb move though. I actually don't think from what I read of his before he has a strong understanding of these consoles or their architectures; he just posted an article based on what he'd heard for all itents and purposes. I certainly would venture a lot of us forum members above his level of understanding, for him to be saying essentially "and these friends of mine were saying a bunch of other stuff I didn't understand..."

Now who these friends of his were and more in depth thoughts on their part, I'd like to know. They may not even work at Sony, but have been part of his old Planetside crew. Who knows? That's really the missing piece of the puzzle on that front, who the people who told him this stuff were.

But anyway, dumb move on his part, but I wish him the best.

PS - The poll needs less 'extreme' options as additional choices, as it stands I can't vote! :smoke:

[Helgunn]

21 people are in denial, also, he didn't deserve what he got... he's allowed to have an opinion and Sony didn't like his so they fire him? Bullshit.

[BlueTsunami]

21 people are in denial, also, he didn't deserve what he got... he's allowed to have an opinion and Sony didn't like his so they fire him? Bullshit.

Out of all the people on this board, I really am quite sure your the last to really know why he got fired. I've heard from a credible person on another board (through IRC) that he released some info that exposed some efforts SOE is doing (with PS3). The person even pointed out the fact that hes quite sure the guy is going to get fired for what he did (way before internet forums knew).

The possible reason the shit hit the fan now is because the blog was kinda obscure beforehand and suddenly blew up last month. Bringing it to attention to the higher ups at Sony.

21 people have formulated an opinion off the same information you seem to have. Your the one making him out to be a Christ figure. You just don't do the things he did be it Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Apple etc.

Also, trashing your companies console on the verge of a media blitz about its launch? Yeah, thats very intelligent. People get fired for more inane reasons in this world, I wouldn't be surprised if he was fired for what he said. Though like I said, I've heard otherwise.

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

Only a few things to say, then again, I'm gone...

Are people this DENSE!!! Ask yourself, "If I said a few things about how my job sucks and so and so is better in front of my boss, is there a chance I would get fired for it?". You probably could, could you not? This man did just that, he made a pretty freshman move, an got boned for it. If he had done the same thing at Morgan Stanley, or SGI, or IBM or Microsoft, the same thing could've happened. Does nobody get that?

Stop trying to turn this into a trolling war of which company is better than which, when in reality is has nothing to do with that. That is what's happening, by the way.

Lastly, do we really need four coppies of this thread?! Damn, did somebody take the week off?!


Dio

[lip2lip]

hard to believe ... anyone could be so dumb. what does an art guy know about hardware and coding anyways... that he feels so important to tell everyone is companies product is inferior.

:drunks:

[Helgunn]

Oh, I'm sorry? When did I make him out to be a Christ figure? I'm posting my opinion based off of what I know on the situation, nothing more I can do.

[BlueTsunami]

Oh, I'm sorry? When did I make him out to be a Christ figure? I'm posting my opinion based off of what I know on the situation, nothing more I can do.

*looks at your signiture*

and you saying 21 people in denial isn't really making your argument easy to accept. Essentially insult everyone who posted before you, that basically invalidates your opinion to the ones you insulted.

[Helgunn]

I really shouldn't be going along with this ploy so this is the last thing I'm going to say... I didn't insult anybody, I made an observation in a non-threating or rude way.

[Helgunn]

hard to believe ... anyone could be so dumb. what does an art guy know about hardware and coding anyways... that he feels so important to tell everyone is companies product is inferior.

:drunks:
He's just saying what the general consensus of his coworkers is... I mean, as far as I know xbdestroya doesn't work in hardware, so should I ignore everything he says when it comes to it? No and I doubt you would either.

[BlueTsunami]

I really shouldn't be going along with this ploy so this is the last thing I'm going to say... I didn't insult anybody, I made an observation in a non-threating or rude way.

If thats how you express an observation than I wonder how things are for you socially.

Me, XB and others in this thread have stated how we sympathise for this man but using logic one would see how it wasn't the most smart move. You can also see how a company would want to let go someone who did what he did.

I'm not sure you know how strict Sony is with NDAs. I'm not sure you've heard the supposed horror stories. Until you do, your just a poster that has a signiture of what you feel was the most important piece of information that came out of that blog. Which is painstakinly obvious why you feel he was unjustly fired.

as far as I know xbdestroya doesn't work in hardware, so should I ignore everything he says when it comes to it? No and I doubt you would either.

He also states in his blog that hes not the most technical person. Its pointless anyways, you've already formed your opinion.

[Helgunn]

If he broke any NDAs then yes, he did deserve it but as far as I know... he didn't. Yeah and the article also states that what I've quoted (THE XBOX 360 is better) comes from his coworkers, not him.

[section]

Well he did broke NDA clausures, and plenty of them.

And while again the whole thing has ventured into poo slinging contest area I can give you a bit older link of MS firing their employee because of this photo on his personal blog:

http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2003/10/even_microsoft.html

and article on a newspaper about the same event:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/146115_blogger30.html


Any flashbacks here? And here surely weren't any NDAs in jeopardy.

Another one from 2003 when guy lost his job after helping to write a study critical of the insecurity of Microsoft software

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2003-09-26-exec_x.htm

He actually helped the company and lost his job so how about that for a tabloid news?

So no company is a saint, it's stupid to write gray area material in blogs while you're a corporate employee and you can never know how any big conglomerate treats you if you are in their eyes "caught in the act".

[Helgunn]

What do you want/expect me to say? That they don't deserve to lose their jobs because it's Microsoft? Well, too bad... if they broke an NDA then they deserve to lose their job, it doesn't matter what company they work for.

I quoted it in my sig because it's coming from somebody who doesn't just want your money.

[BlueTsunami]

Yeah and the article also states that what I've quoted (THE XBOX 360 is better) comes from his coworkers, not him.

I find that to be the biggest joke of his blog. Not saying that in reality the PS3 is better or the Xbox360 is better but the fact that he went to a bunch of his coworkers and the consistent opinion is the 360 is better.

Makes me wonder how easy it is for someone in the industry to get somekind of SDK hardware from both sides (or just get in touch with one). Even then, how did they form those opinions and what exactly do they mean by better? Those type of questions should be asked.

[Helgunn]

Or, it is against Sony... it comes from an employee of Sony and you don't like it?

[BlueTsunami]

Or, it is against Sony... it comes from an employee of Sony and you don't like it?

Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo. If a baseless claim that the PS3 was more powerfull than the 360 without any technical information accompanying it? I would be just as passive about the information.

I would direct that question back at you, but I already know the answer.

[Helgunn]

If an MS employee said that Xbox 360 is weaker then Ps3, well... really I could careless. Would I believe him before Peter Moore or Bill Gates? Yes, I would.

Makes no difference.

[Danji]

If an MS employee said that Xbox 360 is weaker then Ps3, well... really I could careless. Would I believe him before Peter Moore or Bill Gates? Yes, I would.

Makes no difference.

What? But you are believing a random Sony employee who isn't EVEN QUALIFIED to pass such judgement and is quick to assure the public of that. He said so himself. He also admitted that it's from other people that he didn't mention. They could be speaking from what they heard from some other people who were, get this, lying.

In any case, this whole thing is just a b******t argument so I'm going to cut this short. The guy shouldn't have done that for his own sake and while I'm at it, mine, so I wouldn't have to deal with these arguments on my board.

Do you have any idea how MUCH you much frustrate GodMachine before he even LOGS in!?! That's how ignorant you're being Hellgun.

[Helgunn]

So, all these Sony employees are lying, eh? Let me guess, MS planted them... right? You know, I actually wouldn't be surprised if that's what you thought. :D

[Danji]

I'm not validating you with another post. It's a waste of my time.

[BlueTsunami]

So, all these Sony employees are lying, eh?

I really don't want to keep this going either but you didn't hear a bunch of Sony employees saying that. You heard one Sony employee talking about all those Sony employees that said that. Very big difference.

[Helgunn]

Why shouldn't you or I believe him though? Because he's a graphics designer? What does xbdestroya do for a living? What do you, Danji, do for a living?

[Phryne Astynome]

Only a few things to say, then again, I'm gone...

Are people this DENSE!!! Ask yourself, "If I said a few things about how my job sucks and so and so is better in front of my boss, is there a chance I would get fired for it?". You probably could, could you not? This man did just that, he made a pretty freshman move, an got boned for it. If he had done the same thing at Morgan Stanley, or SGI, or IBM or Microsoft, the same thing could've happened. Does nobody get that?

Stop trying to turn this into a trolling war of which company is better than which, when in reality is has nothing to do with that. That is what's happening, by the way.

Lastly, do we really need four coppies of this thread?! Damn, did somebody take the week off?!


Dio

Check out this story of a guy who was fired at the Carlyle Group (a famous and ultra prestigious private equity firm).

http://www.snopes.com/risque/tattled/chung.htm

[BlueTsunami]

Why shouldn't you or I believe him though? Because he's a graphics designer? What does xbdestroya do for a living? What do you, Danji, do for a living?

I can't speak for anyone else but I personally have not called to the fact that hes a graphics designer as a reason to discredit him. What I do feel is a reason is when he says hes "not the most technical person". Selective reading isn't the best trait, though, even I have that issue sometimes.

He could be telling the truth he could be lying the point is he has no proof or examples to back up his statement. Its very simple really. Just like how you would not care if a microsoft employee said that the PS3 is better than the Xbox360 right?

[Helgunn]

I can't speak for anyone else but I personally have not called to the fact that hes a graphics designer as a reason to discredit him. What I do feel is a reason is when he says hes "not the most technical person". Selective reading isn't the best trait, though, even I have that issue sometimes.

He could be telling the truth he could be lying the point is he has no proof or examples to back up his statement. Its very simple really. Just like how you would not care if a microsoft employee said that the PS3 is better than the Xbox360 right?
What has he gotten from this? He lost his job and he was interviewed on a website... whoopedy do! That's really worth losing your job over!

[BlueTsunami]

What has he gotten from this? He lost his job and he was interviewed on a website... whoopedy do! That's really worth losing your job over!

If your good at picking up subtleties, you can see that he wasn't really happy with his current situation at SOE. Pull whatever conclusions you want from that (i'm answering your questions with the mindset that you read the complete blog already, not just jump to the good parts).

[xbdestroya]

Anyway Hellgunn yeah I have to say I have a decent tech background; I'm no programmer, and I would defer to many others - like Cpi and GodMachine - on matters graphical, but I can hold a debate.

I don't think this guy 'deserved' what he got, but he should have known better is the bottom line. That said, indeed his friends have said that the 360 is better. But now what I ask is, do those friends work at Sony? Because I don't believe that's stated in his blog entry - he just said 'dev friends,' and then goes on to say that he's not really qualified himself. I would venture to say that he probably has a couple of friends on the 360 side of the development community - because if they are at Sony, then I have to wonder how these guys know so much about 360 development. But even that aside, I just venture that it's his old Planetside team, wherever they work now.

Anyway whatever the case I don't take his opinion very seriously - no more than anyone else who 'has friends in the industry,' even though ironically he is in the industry. By the way, as a PC dev - Sony Online Entertainment deals with PC games as we know - it doesn't surprise me that whoever his friends are would prefer the 360, since it is more akin to the PC environment.

I'm not saying the PS3 is more powerful than the 360, I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying Josh Robinson's second-hand opinion deserves minimal consideration, candid though it may be.

[Helgunn]

But we can use evidence against other divisions of Microsoft when we're trying to discredit Microsoft? Interesting. :)

[xbdestroya]

I don't know, I may have missed something in the conversation. What other divisions of MS have been brought into the mix? I'm not trying to attack with that by the way, I'm just honestly curious. :)

I think sometimes people underestimate the vast gulfs that exist in terms of knowledge of what the various sister divisions are doing in large corporations.

PS - Heads up - I've deleted all posts stemming from my own and/or my girlfirends occupations, but Phryne we can continue via PM.

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

I'm unemployed, but that's neither here, nor there. I needed some time off, so I gave it to myself. It's a wonderfull luxury. I've been on vacation for three weeks and I'm still making money... begin the "h8 male".

Anyway, on to the point... This story seems to be being used for two purposes. One purpose seems to attempt to portray "Company A" as villianous while placing "Company B" on a golden pillar. This is simply pointless as any company (as has already been demonstrated) would've fired this man, had he done this at their company. If they hadn't, they'd atleast have the right to do so. No one company is any more or less evil in this regard. The second purpose that seems to be at play currently is to draw comparison between SONY's and Microsoft's new console offerings. Nowhere from this can we derive performance differences. We simply have the term "Better" being thrown around like a grenade. That's damned arbitrary... Better in what way? Better how? The man's a modeler... maybe he means better from the standpoint of ease of asset development. Maybe he means better from the standpoint of software support (certainly could be true). He says he see's nothing next generation, but again, this is his own arbitrary opinion. What is next-gen? Is next-gen "Final Fantasy XII CG in realtime", or is it Heavenly Sword, or is it Resident Evil 5? Really, what is it? See? Arbitrary.


This article should've had as much longevity as any of the other dozen or so seemingly side-choosing articles have, but it's like a zombie: It creeps on and on and on some more and just WILL NOT die till somebody rips the head off of it.

The point there is we have similar things being said by developers on both sides of the track. We have people who typically develop for the Xbox praising elements of SONY's new baby, as well as people from SONY's camp praising elements of Microsoft's new beast. Where this seems to apparently become more valid is this man lost his job for it. The suspiscion becomes "Oooo, SONY must be covering something up by firing this guy.", and though it's as valid as any other conspiracy theory, it gives this whole thing its zombie-like properties. Annoying to say the least.

This has and never had any bearing on either the quality of the next-gen consoles in comparison to eachother or the sweetness of one company versus the other.

Please don't attempt to make this mean more than it does or mean something it doesn't. Every other site and fanboy/wanna-be gaming columnist on every forum from here to the end of the web is already doing that (Because they lack the intelligence to see otherwise or because it grabs readers). You can be more unique than that, I'm sure.

Anyway, I'm tired, it's four-eighteen in the morning here. I'm calling it a day a little earlier than is usual for me.

G'night everybody...

Dio

[CrumCon]

Unless his friends are from major company like Capcom, SE, SEGA Namco, whic probably already have BOTH X360 and PS3 devkit.. then i would believe him.

But he didnt state anything about his friends background.. nohing. Does his friend ever touched PS3 devkit? if so.. for what company does he work? if he left this two question with no answer..theni think yes, he is lying and dont know a sh*****t whats his talking about.

[Helgunn]

When has anybody in Sony shown respect for Microsoft? Ever?

[Helgunn]

Unless his friends are from major company like Capcom, SE, SEGA Namco, whic probably already have BOTH X360 and PS3 devkit.. then i would believe him.

But he didnt state anything about his friends background.. nohing. Does his friend ever touched PS3 devkit? if so.. for what company does he work? if he left this two question with no answer..theni think yes, he is lying and dont know a sh*****t whats his talking about.
...He works for Sony.

[CrumCon]

...He works for Sony.

i know that, im not stupid.. im talking about his so called friends

[Helgunn]

They were his coworkers, why don't you take a wild guess?

[CrumCon]

no, he didnt say they are his coworkers. ive READ his article.

[Helgunn]

Then who would "Now I’ve spoken with people who are on the technical side of the PS3" those people be? Huh?

[CrumCon]

Helgunn

what i want to know: does his so called friends ever touched Xbox360 and PS3 DEVKITS or even making games for both architecture.
HE DIDNT say that in his article, which makes his whole article less unbelievable.

he just says.. SOME people. oh well.

AND you believe his so called FRIENDS are his coworkers working for SOE..

well.. think for a second friend.. How could his coworkers working inside SOE knows so much about Xbox360 architecture. oh dont tell me people inside SOE makes games for Xbox360.. hmmm...

Yosh!

[woundingchaney]

In all fairness Crum, we readily post any PS3>360 comment we can find whether the dev has touched both dev kits or he has even any knowledge of them at all.

[Danji]

We post it like we did this but do we confide in it the way helgunn does with this? The earlier poster was right, Helgunn does treat this guy like his modern-day messiah for debate (if you can even call it that in his case) and certainly we haven't seen anything close to this calibur on either side before. Pro-Sony or Pro-MS. Let's not forget Pro-Nintendo..then again we may have seen something close to this pro-nintendo *chuckles*.

[Helgunn]

Helgunn

what i want to know: does his so called friends ever touched Xbox360 and PS3 DEVKITS or even making games for both architecture.
HE DIDNT say that in his article, which makes his whole article less unbelievable.

he just says.. SOME people. oh well.

AND you believe his so called FRIENDS are his coworkers working for SOE..

well.. think for a second friend.. How could his coworkers working inside SOE knows so much about Xbox360 architecture. oh dont tell me people inside SOE makes games for Xbox360.. hmmm...

Yosh!
I thought you read the article? Just because he works for Sony doesn't mean he doesn't know people at Microsoft, which he said in the article he has talked to.

[Helgunn]

We post it like we did this but do we confide in it the way helgunn does with this? The earlier poster was right, Helgunn does treat this guy like his modern-day messiah for debate (if you can even call it that in his case) and certainly we haven't seen anything close to this calibur on either side before. Pro-Sony or Pro-MS. Let's not forget Pro-Nintendo..then again we may have seen something close to this pro-nintendo *chuckles*.
As far as I'm concerned, Nintendo doesn't exist. They make their good games with the same IPs for years and years, I play them, have fun then that's that. There's no drama with them.

That's their (Nintendo) point.

[CrumCon]

I thought you read the article? Just because he works for Sony doesn't mean he doesn't know people at Microsoft, which he said in the article he has talked to.

there you see... read your post again and think my friend. please THINK

[Helgunn]

there you see... read your post again and think my friend. please THINK
...

[woundingchaney]

Im sure the man has some knowledge and has heard many comments regarding the capabilities of the 360 and PS3, but they are indeed nothing more than opinions and should be treated as such (as most of the comments available today).


I do not think the man should have lost his job over his statements.

[CrumCon]

I thought you read the article? Just because he works for Sony doesn't mean he doesn't know people at Microsoft, which he said in the article he has talked to.

Could anyone explain his own post to Helgunn.. its so flawed

[Danji]

He broke an NDA. That alone means he should've been fired from just a legal standpoint.

[woundingchaney]

He broke an NDA. That alone means he should've been fired from just a legal standpoint.


If he did truly break the NDA then yes I agree with his firing, but his comments dont lead me to believe that he really revealed anything (it seems if anything he just was a pothole on Sony hype road). Although I am by no means experienced with NDAs what they compose of or how one would break this agreement. Any info would be appreciated.

[xbdestroya]

Guys... ok, there are a lot of different opinions on Josh Robinson, all of them valid opinions. But knowing how strongly some of us disagree on the matter, can't we all just agree to disagree? There was a poll on B3D I started once, where I asked that everyone vote, and if they want, simply post once with *their* opinion. No back and forth debates. That was a great poll thread... lot's of good thoughts and no arguments.

Otherwise, when it's a contentious issue like this, I mean this is just what always happens.

PS - This is the thread dedicated to the Josh Robinson thing from back in the day (though it wasn't the first thread to discuss it). http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=50741

If you go to post #11 in the thread, it explains when we first knew he was fired. It's just a good thread to read in general for context into this debate.

[masonite]

he expressed his opinion as a member of the company. he didn't state that the article he wrote was based on his opinion, he said it was from his "people" who worked on the 360.

i work in a bottle shop. if i quietly tell another customer that the product they are after is cheaper at another shop, there's no harm done. they'll say thanks, go out, and get what they want. no-one is the wiser. If i, without even being asked, put up a poster in the shop telling everyone who walks in how much cheaper everyone else is, based simply on the fact that someone i know told me those shops are cheaper, that is a problem - not only because i'm taking advantage of my position within the company to convey my opinion, but because it is grossly unethical and immoral - as a member of the company, i have to uphold the company's reputation (if i hate the company, or can't continue to uphold it's reputation, the expectation is that i leave - no-one is forcing me to work there).

there's a way a company can stop peolpe from using this unethical behavious against them - three words: code of conduct. breach that, and regardless of who you are, or how sweet and innocent you are, or whether you cured blindness or leprosy, or whether you have walked on water before getting nailed to a tree and dieing and then coming back to life (as certain people in this thread seem to think josh robinson has done, many times over), you will lose your job. and the company has a right to make sure the door hits your ass on the way out. they could probably even fix rusty spikes to the door to ensure you get tetanus, but that might be pushing it.

I imagine that writing an article bagging out your company and promoting another, on the internet, no less, and using your position within said company as an excuse to be given credibility constitutes a breach of the code of conduct.

[Viano]

Helgunn, I think you are ｐreｔｔｙ annoying and many people would like to see your mouth shut. well, just mo, ♪LOL♪.

Anyways, it doesn't matter what the situation is, like the early posts said, getting fired by trashing the product from you own company is absolutely logical(forget the NDA that stuff). Nevermind it's the product that the whole company is betting on.

[venomv]

What I wanna know is how can anyone defend him. If this poll was for if someone from MS said the PS3 was better in the manner he did, I would say he should be fired. He can believe whatever he wants, but to put it on the internet just to get the reaction of thousands, probably millions, of people is stupid and stupidity should be punished (that goes for you to Helgunn).

This has nothing at all to do with Sony vs Microsoft, if has everything with someone trying to cause trouble for the company he works for.

[woundingchaney]

What I wanna know is how can anyone defend him. If this poll was for if someone from MS said the PS3 was better in the manner he did, I would say he should be fired. He can believe whatever he wants, but to put it on the internet just to get the reaction of thousands, probably millions, of people is stupid and stupidity should be punished (that goes for you to Helgunn).

This has nothing at all to do with Sony vs Microsoft, if has everything with someone trying to cause trouble for the company he works for.


Well I disagree, suppose I criitcized my company should I infact be fired, despite if my critcs were true? What if I was to criticize these forums should I then be removed from them. I think this man has the right speak on such things (at least on a very vague level). After all he just mentioned opinions and perceptions nothing really technical or the like, the concept of firing him seems ridiculous to me (but as I stated earlier Im not sure just how limiting his NDA was). I personally dont know how malicious or vindictive his post was intended to be, but Im assuming that wasnt his intentions.

[Helgunn]

My goal here? To have people to play with online when I get a Ps2 again... I can't tell I won't be achieving that though. When I originally had a Ps2, I didn't know anything about ethernet cords, or all that good stuff and now I do (thanks to XBL!) so it'll be cake.

[venomv]

Well I disagree, suppose I criitcized my company should I infact be fired, despite if my critcs were true? What if I was to criticize these forums should I then be removed from them. I think this man has the right speak on such things (at least on a very vague level). After all he just mentioned opinions and perceptions nothing really technical or the like, the concept of firing him seems ridiculous to me (but as I stated earlier Im not sure just how limiting his NDA was). I personally dont know how malicious or vindictive his post was intended to be, but Im assuming that wasnt his intentions.

It's not the critism that I have a problem with, it's the methods and what I see as intention behind it. Posting it on the internet before the product even exists is wrong, not to mention I think it was with intent to harm Sony (but I could be wrong there as I haven't asked Miss Cleo about it). Now if he worked for MS and critisized Sony with the exact same reasoning. I would probably just say it's bull and leave it at that, but it isn't coming from MS.

[Carn]

it was his own fault. If you are working on projects like that you probably had to sign somewhere that you wont talk crap about it publicly. is it "fair"? no, but from a big companies' point of view its the only logical thing to do.

[GUNDAMSEED]

WTF this topic is so stupid . This guy say's he did not see any thing that was next gen on PS3 . GoW look so good . All i have to say is MGS4 done in very short time on non final ps3 dev kit and still one best look next gen games we have seen up till now.

What i find funny is when devs say ps3 will have little more power than 360, xbox fans are saying they lie and this from fair amount of devs, does not matter if will take longer to get there it has more power. But some guy that know's nothing about hardware say some and he god .

PLus he broke his NDA he should get fired , he open his mouth , Ken ninjas found out and he lost his job .

[cpiasminc]

This guy say's he did not see any thing that was next gen on PS3. GoW look so good. All i have to say is MGS4 done in very short time on non final ps3 dev kit and still one best look next gen games we have seen up till now.
Actually, from the context in the original statements, when he said all those things about not seeing HDR or subsurface scattering and all that, I got the impression he was talking about the game HE was working on, not other games being made.

People are looking at the wrong part of the statements when they're thinking about the NDA violation. The NDA violation was where he started talking about his own game. Mentioning that it's a launch title and all the scheduling issues and speaking of the sort of graphics it has. That's especially bad if the game hasn't been announced or the current status of the game is under wraps.

[edoshin]

Still talking about this guy? .. I think its been mentioned somewhere that he's got a book coming out. What a way to get some name recognition without spending a dime on marketing. A few weeks ago, nobody ever even heard of this guy, and now he's got multiple threads constantly running in every game forum and he's the authority on all things PS3. Gotta give him credit for that.

[cliffbo]

Still talking about this guy? .. I think its been mentioned somewhere that he's got a book coming out. What a way to get some name recognition without spending a dime on marketing. A few weeks ago, nobody ever even heard of this guy, and now he's got multiple threads constantly running in every game forum and he's the authority on all things PS3. Gotta give him credit for that.

i couldn't have put it better myself. maybe he isn't that stupid, just simply an opportunist with an agenda.

[GUNDAMSEED]

Actually, from the context in the original statements, when he said all those things about not seeing HDR or subsurface scattering and all that, I got the impression he was talking about the game HE was working on, not other games being made.

People are looking at the wrong part of the statements when they're thinking about the NDA violation. The NDA violation was where he started talking about his own game. Mentioning that it's a launch title and all the scheduling issues and speaking of the sort of graphics it has. That's especially bad if the game hasn't been announced or the current status of the game is under wraps.

I know he broke his NDA when he was talking about his own game . But when i first read what he was saying, he also said he did not seen nothing on ps3 that looks as good as GoW so i assume since he had seen some vids of others game. How could say that when we seen games like HS,MGS4, etc etc. Plus GoW is not even a ps3 game. I have no problem with him saying well his team is not doing HDR or poly count is low on his game (he's not even supose talk about his game anyway) . But he made sound like it was that way with all ps3 games. Again this from what i read when news first came out it look like he was saying there were no games on Ps3 that look even close to GoW.

[woundingchaney]

I know he broke his NDA when he was talking about his own game . But when i first read what he was saying, he also said he did not seen nothing on ps3 that looks as good as GoW so i assume since he had seen some vids of others game. How could say that when we seen games like HS,MGS4, etc etc. Plus GoW is not even a ps3 game. I have no problem with him saying well his team is not doing HDR or poly count is low on his game (he's not even supose talk about his game anyway) . But he made sound like it was that way with all ps3 games. Again this from what i read when news first came out it look like he was saying there were no games on Ps3 that look even close to GoW.


Well his preference on GoW is opinion and many people share the opinion that GoW is visibly more pleasing than MGS4 or other Sony offerinfs (not necessarily my opinion). I would think that it is a fair assumption that other teams would face the same limitations that his team is attempting to hurdle, but that would be assumption on my part.


Oh and seeing as to how CP cleared up the NDA thing for me, I see now as to why he lost his job.

[BlueTsunami]

Well the rumor is that Heavenly Sword is looking better than it did at E3. Take that with a grain of salt since I don't know if the person that said it was playing with the collective PS fanbase emotions (lol) (he also is to be believed if he was being serious). With that said, I think Heavenly Sword as it did at E3 looked better than Gears of War in the form thats been released to the public.

[woundingchaney]

Well the rumor is that Heavenly Sword is looking better than it did at E3. Take that with a grain of salt since I don't know if the person that said it was playing with the collective PS fanbase emotions (lol) (he also is to be believed if he was being serious). With that said, I think Heavenly Sword as it did at E3 looked better than Gears of War in the form thats been released to the public.


Wasnt the E3 H S trailer cgi??????

[BlueTsunami]

Wasnt the E3 H S trailer cgi??????

I'm not sure about the actual story behind the technicalities behind the HS trailer. I thought it was in game or engine and was sped up or something. Either way, the information is coming from a member at B3D. The statement was kinda lost in the shuffle...he also said "Don't write off Next-Gen" and "plays next gen to...:wink:" (refering to Heavenly Sword)

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

This thing has probably gone on far too long.

I'm going to directly address Hellgun. I noticed you ignored/looked over my previous post, and I wonder if it were simply more convenient for you to do so. This has been resolved. The contents of this article have no bearing on which console is greater than which, nor which company is better than which.

Now that you've failed to show otherwise, you attack forum members and the forum in general with accusations of bias.

It's uncalled for, it creates a nuisance, and it's rude.

Later

Dio

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

Actually yeah, Heavenly Sword is looking better than it did. The demonstration at E3 had the same shadowing issue Deano mentioned it had in 2004, too (the characters appeared to float above their shadows).

The E3 demo was realtime footage, just running very slow. It's to be expected, though. This began its life on PC hardware and a completely different GPU and API. None of this was optimized at all (why it had to be sped up). The close-up of the character's face I believe was something pre-canned, though. Everything else running in hardware.

Later

Dio

Also... appears I was a little late with my last post.

[liver_kick]

I would think that it is a fair assumption that other teams would face the same limitations that his team is attempting to hurdle, but that would be assumption on my part.

Well, SOE isnt even a Sony first party. Its an independent PC centric developer (under Sony Pictures) focusing on MMORPGs, which is typically not a genre that pushes things on a technical front. I believe he was also quoted as calling his very own project a rushed "just get it out there title", aka shovelware. I dont think its much a stretch to assume whatever he was working on isn't exactly the pace setter for PS3 development as a whole. More likely its at the bottom of the rung. And using his impressions as the baseline for where the rest of the development community stood was either a case of mistranslation, or Robinson simply being disingenuously vague on his part.

[Junox50]

Actually yeah, Heavenly Sword is looking better than it did. The demonstration at E3 had the same shadowing issue Deano mentioned it had in 2004, too (the characters appeared to float above their shadows).

The E3 demo was realtime footage, just running very slow. It's to be expected, though. This began its life on PC hardware and a completely different GPU and API. None of this was optimized at all (why it had to be sped up). The close-up of the character's face I believe was something pre-canned, though. Everything else running in hardware.

Later

Dio

Also... appears I was a little late with my last post.

great to hear

[Darkon]

This is meant for you hel


http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=671942&postcount=274

First, a few things to note, about the "truth" J.Robinson exposed.
You have to know that his career at SOE didn't go as well as he could have expected (I'll just say that...).
One should not forget that he's an artist, not a developer, none of the coding guy at SOE think like him, so much about the "Sony developers think this and that".




I also have heard he's now again in trouble with Sony after the ps3 week interview.


And i wonder where this guy found a new job because I doubt any dev house would want to hire him now .

[xbdestroya]

I want to add the rest of Vysez's quote here though, because it applies to this forum as well:

Now, about the personal attacks and consorts, this has no places here.
Same thing about the discussion regarding people's supposed agenda, and supposed reasons behind threads rating.
I won't expand on why it's not contributive to this forum, seeing that you all know why.

Now, the noise:signal ratio have to go up. And it will.

(Vysez must've been drunk though when he wrote it because mad spelling issues!)

[Darkon]

I want to add the rest of Vysez's quote here though, because it applies to this forum as well:



(Vusez must've been drunk though when he wrote it because mad spelling issues!)

Speaking of Vysez damn that guy hates anandtech ...btw my lancaster died

[Alkemist]

Wasnt the E3 H S trailer cgi??????

Not to get off topic but:
Just adding to what has been said. Nope, that was all in-engine my friend. Running mainly off of the PPE itself, you might want to check out the link in my thread to learn the history of developing this game. It's kind of frustrating what the devs had to go through to get a publisher for this game. But everything in that E3 trailer was as real(time) as it gets.

Be sure to read all of it. It really is a good read.

[Domination]

Helgunn what is your overall goal here, Im not trying to criticize or demean you. Im having a rather hard time understanding the large picture your trying to convey in these forums.

It seems to me that you wish only to convey your distrust and dislike of Sony, and that is an opinion that you are more than entitled to, but at the same time you must remember where you are at. What you are doing is comparable to preaching Islam at the Vatican. The first thing you must recognize is that this board consists of very intelligent members who are willing to listen and debate right alongside of you, but this must go both ways.


I kinda wish I could give you some rep for that, but it has been used already. Oh well. I totally agree with you, though. ;)

[Domination]

My goal here? To have people to play with online when I get a Ps2 again... I can't tell I won't be achieving that though. When I originally had a Ps2, I didn't know anything about ethernet cords, or all that good stuff and now I do (thanks to XBL!) so it'll be cake.

I'm going to have to call you out on this one, Helgunn. We had a debate not to long ago in the psm: Playstation Live ...No Try Playstation Life thread where you and I discussed PlayStation related material, and your answer to me was the following:

"I know that but I just happen to be let down the most from Sony, and it was when I was a "casual".

It's hard to forgive."

and also this one:

"They tried to crawl and failed? That's interesting. Yes, by "my clock" they won't be able to...

Sony: Crawled and failed.
Microsoft: Crawled, and is now walking."

Posts 263 to posts 268 (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=51494&page=14) gets really interesting, I think. If what you are saying now is true, then we could have a problem. By my understanding of your quote, which I will not list, there is nothing that you would care to purchase or try for the PS2 because is was such a bad experience for you. Therefore, I will repeat what has already been ask from someone else: What is your goal?

[Helgunn]

There's plenty I want to purchase, I want to play FF7: Dierge of Cerebus online when it comes out, I want to playthrough the Jax and Sly Cooper series, want to play a bit God of War and that's as far as I mapped out my Ps2 run for now and that'll keep me busy for quite some time. When I originally had Ps2, I bought bad games.

[Danji]

Okay, okay, okay. I let this go on way too long. Now you're just complete off topic. This thread is a breeding ground for hate and now for some reason you're talking about games you're getting for the PS2? *LOCKED*

We've discussed this enough. Anymore and it'll just cause more hatred among the users.