Things that likely wont make final specs?

[Epix]

Anyone have any gut feelings or intelligent guesses about some things Sony mentioned last year at E3 that you think probably wont make it into the final specs?

Personally I think the most likely things to go would be the dual 1080p output as I dont see as practical enough to justify the cost of implemmenting it. Another feature I feel probably won't make the cut is the multi-card reader support. I think Sony will end up cutting support for the SD and CompactFlash cards and leave the MemoryStick DUO as the only supported memory peripheral.

[venomv]

I really don't think they will do away with anything, I don't think they will get rid of the dual output. If they do take out some of the card support it won't be because they don't want to pay for it, but because that will make what Sony sells the only option.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Compact flash will have to go. As for dual 1080p... Well, maybe they'll release that 3D thingy afterall. What about all those USB ports? Will they really be needed?

[venomv]

The USB ports are for corded controls and recharging cordless controls, they could do without the 2 in the back if they wanted I guess. And why do you say compact flash will have to go?

[VG Aficionado]

I don't think they'll discard anything now. The fact that most people won't use the HDMI ports (most people won't even use one of them) won't force Sony to remove them. Not that all games will have to take advantage of both ports to produce a 32:9 picture either.

Maybe they could save some money by reducing the number of ports, but it happened to me that I once was considering buying a GameCube when I found out the newest models didn't feature an optical output unlike the previous ones since Nintendo considered too few people used it, so I finally declined to purchase it since I didn't want a watered-down version nor a preowned one. I may not be an average consumer, but they didn't get my money for that (decisive) reason, although it was not the sole one.

Anyway, I'm sure that whenever they consider removing some ports, that will only happen when they release a slimline PSThree. There could be some complaints when some older games which did take advantage of all features won't anymore on the new models, but they won't be too important. Just think about PSTwo being unable to run FFXI because it can't support the hard drive, only even less mainstream than this example.

[NoZ]

I doubt they will remove any of the specs the have given. After all they want to be the top of the console war this time round again.

[rpgamer_2k5]

Sony won't any costs by removing the flash memory reader or a USB port, the former is $25 at most while the former is probably $5 bucks when mass produced. If Sony wants to save money, they would just have to get rid of the Blu-Ray, Cell, RSX, or probably Bluetooth. :D

That wouldn't make sense, so expect no changes.

[F089/H]

All I know for sure is they need some kind of PS2 Memory Card Reader if this is to be "true" Backwards compatible

[Junox50]

I doubt they will remove any of the specs the have given. After all they want to be the top of the console war this time round again.

My thoughts exactly.

[speed stick]

I still think its possible that they could remove something just because they did cancel the router option they said it was going to have initialy.

[BruceWayneIII]

I still think its possible that they could remove something just because they did cancel the router option they said it was going to have initialy.

They never said it was a router - but you could use it as a hub...

[Helios]

There's nothing particularly needless on the PS3 specs,or anything expensive so I really dont expect them to throw anything out. All the pricey components are necessity(RSX,Blu-Ray ect.) Especially the dual 1080p outputs, it might not get used much but its one of the more advertised specs.

At the very least Sony doesnt want a follow up 360 move with a gutted system.

[Miyahon]

wait a second aside from lan parties, when on earth would you EVER use dual 1080p outputs? Do you even know anyone who has two 1080p TVs?

[Hrama]

Umm... If I had two televisions. Any two televisions at that. Hell, even two computer monitors would work. Or maybe I will just solder something up so I can connect it to my Sony CD walkman.... and then take over the world with its 1337 connectivity Mwahaha!

[Helios]

^yeah that would have been probaly be a far better approach for Sony. Dual outputs for any format would have gotten a lot more use than just 1080p.

Im thinking of the huge amounts of people that have more than one tv, and might just want to play a 4 player game without 4screen split. Dual 1080p is great for tech show - showoff(couldnt think of a better word) with the ooos and ahhhs - but its not good for practical consumer use. I plan on selling my Hdtv for a Sony 1080p but im certainly not buying two and I doubt anyone else has two either.

[venomv]

wait a second aside from lan parties, when on earth would you EVER use dual 1080p outputs? Do you even know anyone who has two 1080p TVs?

Just because it can be 2 1080p TV's doesn't mean it has to be to 1080p TV's, it can be any 2 TV's.

[xbdestroya]

Don't you need dual outputs in order to drive 1080p sets at the moment? HDMI's not really my area, but isn't that the primary reason for the dual outputs - for true 1080p support? Unless of course PS3 launches with that new HDMI standard in place, but at the moment I'm not sure they'll make it.

Anyway I don't expect anything really to be cut. They could go to simply MemorySticks on the card reader, but as mentioned that would be a move to support their own format rather than a move of expense - that entire unit must cost on the order of ~$3-5. And USB ports, well you want some cords out of sight in the back, and hey four controllers wired up in the front. Also another insanely cheap feature; no reason to cut back on USB ports.

[Lekko]

The first output could go to your TV, the second to your PC monitor. The two USBs in the back could be for keyboard/mouse. That way your PS3 can switch between gaming and Linux without having to reconnect every cable. One possibility.

[cpiasminc]

Don't you need dual outputs in order to drive 1080p sets at the moment? HDMI's not really my area, but isn't that the primary reason for the dual outputs - for true 1080p support?
I think it's dual-DVI that you need for 1080p. I think HDMI can actually carry a 1080p signal, and it is backwards compatible with DVI protocol.

They could go to simply MemorySticks on the card reader, but as mentioned that would be a move to support their own format rather than a move of expense
I'd agree with this likelihood except for one potential variable. It looks like Sony is trying to sell PS3 as this sort of major media center appliance in the home entertainment arena. Supporting multiple memory card formats has a bit of value in that as things like digital cameras and MP3 players and other toys will use all sorts of formats. Same thing applies to things like the multiple ethernet ports for things like streaming video from a PC or something similar.

[Epix]

At the moment there are no consumer available TV's that accept a 1080p signal, they mearly up-convert the 1080i or 720p signal to 1080p. By the time the PS3 ships I'm sure this won't be the case but I still can't see a practical need for dual 1080p output. I, personally, would rather save $10 and get a system with one 1080p output rather than two. It's a feature I'm extremely likely to never use (and I play a lot of video games). The memory peripherial support being only MemoryStick I see as a good possibility because this is not a make-or-break feature for the system so why should Sony even support any format other than it's own. Why not strongly back your own format when it won't hurt your system sales at all?

[xbdestroya]

At the moment there are no consumer available TV's that accept a 1080p signal, they mearly up-convert the 1080i or 720p signal to 1080p. By the time the PS3 ships I'm sure this won't be the case but I still can't see a practical need for dual 1080p output. I, personally, would rather save $10 and get a system with one 1080p output rather than two. It's a feature I'm extremely likely to never use (and I play a lot of video games). The memory peripherial support being only MemoryStick I see as a good possibility because this is not a make-or-break feature for the system so why should Sony even support any format other than it's own. Why not strongly back your own format when it won't hurt your system sales at all?

Well actually I believe native 1080p sets have begun to come on the market - and several were present and featured at CES as well. It's more a lack of native 1080p sources at the moment than anything.

The dual HDMI I won't try and speak to - and thanks for clearing me up on that Cpi - but it could be due to support for both monitor and TV concurrently as mentioned before. Otherwise unless Sony envisions some wild future they haven't shown us yet, not sure that I would ever utilize it either.

I actually do think though that they will keep all the memory card formats, and didn't mean to imply otherwise in my previous post. But if it ends up shipping with only MemoryStick support, I agree that it will have been for the reason of supporting their proprietary format. Like Cpi said though there is a definite positive angle Kutaragi is trying tp pursue with their inclusion though; if they are cut I imagine it will be because it was commanded by the electronics/media departments and transmited to Kutaragi via Stringer. I wonder what Stringers take on that is by the way, though I imagine he's more or less of the mindset not to interfere with Kutaragi's designs.

[cpiasminc]

At the moment there are no consumer available TV's that accept a 1080p signal, they mearly up-convert the 1080i or 720p signal to 1080p.
There's also no such thing as a broadcast signal that is 1080p, nor is there a video playback device that sends out a 1080p signal. So even if the TV supported 1080p display or 1080p feeds from a video devices, there's no source for it, so it has to either scale up a 720p or deinterlace a 1080i signal.

As far as the physical capability, any TV (with some exceptions among CRTs) that can do 1080 resolution can do 1080p as long as it's fed with the information. The only thing that might limit some CRTs is whether its hardware can produce swing voltages in the deflection yokes quickly enough to scan 1080p.

[frosty]

Well, if a computer has a LCD monitor that can handle 1920x1080 res, and plays a video filmed and encoded @ 1080p, does that not constitute a currently available 1080p video playback device (my pc is my main video playback device in my house) and display? Although I admit there isn't much content available in 1080p unless you can make it yourself.

[Viper]

PC monitors as the main content viewing screen in a household is still a very small portion of the population. In terms of mainstream consumers, their options are still incredibly limited both in available display units and content itself.

[Lekko]

If you bought the PS3, and the HDD (if it isn't included already), couldn't you also download 1080p content and use the PS3s HDMI out to pump it into your HDTV @ 1080p? It could even do all the upscale and de-interlacing work for lower resolution images as well. Not to mention possible upscaling of broadcast shows with DVR abilities.

[frosty]

technically speaking the xbox 360 COULD act as a 1080p playback device also, either from it's HDD or from a Windows Media HD DVD. But, it's lack of digital output pretty much kills it's ability to do that. Guess Bill thought there wouldn't be a need for digital connectivity in the HD era.

Wonder if you could easily mod an existing progressive-capable display to be able to accept 1080p.

[Viano]

Personally I think the most likely things to go would be the dual 1080p output as I dont see as practical enough to justify the cost of implemmenting it. Another feature I feel probably won't make the cut is the multi-card reader support. I think Sony will end up cutting support for the SD and CompactFlash cards and leave the MemoryStick DUO as the only supported memory peripheral.

Well, millions of people are using sd cards everyday in Japan for their cell phone, I don't think it's going to be left out.

[Hylian-Advocate]

technically speaking the xbox 360 COULD act as a 1080p playback device also, either from it's HDD or from a Windows Media HD DVD. But, it's lack of digital output pretty much kills it's ability to do that. Guess Bill thought there wouldn't be a need for digital connectivity in the HD era.

Wonder if you could easily mod an existing progressive-capable display to be able to accept 1080p.
hmmm you have apoint... I never really noticed that the 360 didn't have digital.... your right....HD era my ass.

Anyway... like Viper said. Not many people are going to have 1080p anything...and TVs with that ratio are going to cost a fortune. I know they are thinking towards the furture, but I honestly think they are thinking more about how it looks on paper.

[Goki]

Im pretty sure there will be BR movies with 1080p support on day one of PS3 launch.

[cliffbo]

everything that has been stated by Sony will be included. its the things that Sony haven't said that may be left out (which has driven us mad on this forum) probably the HD is all that could be left out. its what extras could be included rather than whats going to be left out. don't forget that kuturagi has already suggested it could be expensive and with the premium package of Xbox360 doing well, this i believe is the reason for a shortage of information. they are calculating the price point against how much they can afford to lose. with the Rev looming too, Sony are in an uncomfortable position as far as we're concerned, so sit tight.

[Goki]

wait a minute. when are the final specs going to be released again...?

[Domination]

Anyone have any gut feelings or intelligent guesses about some things Sony mentioned last year at E3 that you think probably wont make it into the final specs?

Personally I think the most likely things to go would be the dual 1080p output as I dont see as practical enough to justify the cost of implemmenting it. Another feature I feel probably won't make the cut is the multi-card reader support. I think Sony will end up cutting support for the SD and CompactFlash cards and leave the MemoryStick DUO as the only supported memory peripheral.

I was thinking about this the other day. I believe it was Kaz that said everything we saw at E3 would be the the minimum of what we would recieve as far as the prototype console when asked about a lot of the included features. I got to thinking about that, and the first thing to come to mind was the PC card in the back of the PS2. It most likely would have proven to be underused if it had stayed. So, I was thinking that this could apply to all related features as well.

If you have USB slots and BlueTooth connectivity, I was thinking a multi use of storages might not be that important. So I, too, began thinking that one or two of the cards could be scrapped. I just wasn't sure which ones, but came to the conclusion that it had to be one that didn't take full advanatge of content to be saved on them. To me, it seems a little too much to carry over to your next, next console - especially if they aren't supported anymore.

I don't agree about the dual screen. With standard televisions plus monitors being supported as well as HDTVs and also it relating more to multiple functionality such as games or media sceens/chat windows, I believe there's a greater chance that this could be used than that of a stick for a camera or something.

[Domination]

Compact flash will have to go. As for dual 1080p... Well, maybe they'll release that 3D thingy afterall. What about all those USB ports? Will they really be needed?

For the front? YES. If the console is to support a wired mouse and keyboard plus controllers of all types, I would definitely assume this to be the case. Now, for the back, I only know of a small number of peripharals to take advantage of this, and that's the Eye Toy. But like everything else, this is not a last generation console. Therefore, Sony could easily have more add-ons to take advanatge of these ports. So, logically speaking, we could very well still see two USB ports in the back.

[woundingchaney]

hmmm you have apoint... I never really noticed that the 360 didn't have digital.... your right....HD era my ass.

Anyway... like Viper said. Not many people are going to have 1080p anything...and TVs with that ratio are going to cost a fortune. I know they are thinking towards the furture, but I honestly think they are thinking more about how it looks on paper.


Umnmmm well how many of us are gaming on res. of 1600x1200, 1280x1024 and using an analog signal. High def can be done with analog, not only that but the majority of hd in homes do not have a digital input. I as well would have liked to see a digital out on the 360 but it doesnt hinder the quality at 720p (of course some televisions may see a "slightly" better refresh rate with the digital).

[Sephiroth_VII]

For the front? YES. If the console is to support a wired mouse and keyboard plus controllers of all types, I would definitely assume this to be the case. Now, for the back, I only know of a small number of peripharals to take advantage of this, and that's the Eye Toy. But like everything else, this is not a last generation console. Therefore, Sony could easily have more add-ons to take advanatge of these ports. So, logically speaking, we could very well still see two USB ports in the back.
the PS3 has 2 ports in the top(standing vertically), two in the back and four in the front. That's eight ports, which is a lot for a console.

Man, sony is really taking this the-ps3-is-not-a-game-console-it-is-an-entertainment-hub stuff seriously!!

BTW: Who is this guy? :zeep:

[Viper]

^Zeep

[tazz3]

dual 1080p is a waste and so is the compact flash.

[Infernal]

dual 1080p is a waste and so is the compact flash.
OK, people need to understand something here its not Dual 1080P, its Dual whatever two screens you want to use UP TO 1080P which means you dont need two 1080P screens that no one has. Another thing is alot of people have compact flash cards, including me for their digital cameras so why would compact flash be a waste? Compact flash is actually cheaper than SD or Duo memory cards most of the time, so if you want cheaper memory, theres another reason for Compact Flash. I am highly doubting sony will remove any of the announced specs until the PSThree comes out, the only things I can see them removing are the dual HDMI, the Memory Card readers, and the wireless internet, and that would save them a total of what? 5 Dollars? Just go to Walmart where the PS3 will probably be 5 dollars cheaper anyway, so no they wont remove anything before launch.

[woundingchaney]

Dual 1080p screens is not a waste nor is flash, but they are gimmicks. We could say the same thing about the 360's connectivity to the pc, it is by no means a waste but isnt going to reach most of the consumers. They are selling points to improve the over all qualtiy of the console. Personally I could care less about a flash reader or dual screens but I am very glad I have the option.

[woundingchaney]

Well actually I believe native 1080p sets have begun to come on the market - and several were present and featured at CES as well. It's more a lack of native 1080p sources at the moment than anything.

The dual HDMI I won't try and speak to - and thanks for clearing me up on that Cpi - but it could be due to support for both monitor and TV concurrently as mentioned before. Otherwise unless Sony envisions some wild future they haven't shown us yet, not sure that I would ever utilize it either.

I actually do think though that they will keep all the memory card formats, and didn't mean to imply otherwise in my previous post. But if it ends up shipping with only MemoryStick support, I agree that it will have been for the reason of supporting their proprietary format. Like Cpi said though there is a definite positive angle Kutaragi is trying tp pursue with their inclusion though; if they are cut I imagine it will be because it was commanded by the electronics/media departments and transmited to Kutaragi via Stringer. I wonder what Stringers take on that is by the way, though I imagine he's more or less of the mindset not to interfere with Kutaragi's designs.


Yes, they have, the only one I can think of (off the top of my head) is the Westinghouse 37" 1080p lcd and it is getting rather good reviews from critics. There are also I believe a few 1080p dlp sets on the market as well but I personally dont care for dlps so I know rather little about them.


Oh and the Westinghouse is really rather affordable.

[koldfuzion]

There will be a lot more 1080p tvs coming down the pike. Indeed there are several out there already. I imagine many of the new toshibas with Cell in them will be 1080p in 2006, and certainly the Canon/Toshiba SEDs in 2 years, with 100,000:1 contrast ratios. The sand is already shifting, and I'm already holding off my HD purchase until I can get a hold of 1080p at a decent price point, since I think it's pointless to buy a ($5000) set I'll be bummed about in 18-24 months anyway. Thinking of buying an OK DLP in the meantime, but the damn DLPs are all full of speakers and huge stands that take up too much room (not in terms of depth, which I don't actually care much about, but width/height). Be nice if someone made a straight up DLP display without all the extra crap.

Anyway, as for the overall point that there is no 1080p content, that is certainly true, but I imagine that will change with BRD, and in theory some subset of PS3 games will probably be in 1080p down the road.

However, I don't expect much from my cable company. Could be a very long time before that level of resolution is broadcast on cable, if ever. But if compression tech keeps improving who knows, maybe they'll have plenty of bandwith in a few years. Hard to say, but I bet on them stuffing more channels down the same pipe, which doth not bode well for higher res TV.

Also, pardon my idiocy, but can someone explain to me how the HDMI output on the 360 not digital? :/

[jaxmkii]

wait a second aside from lan parties, when on earth would you EVER use dual 1080p outputs? Do you even know anyone who has two 1080p TVs? sterioscopic glasses

[woundingchaney]

There will be a lot more 1080p tvs coming down the pike. Indeed there are several out there already. I imagine many of the new toshibas with Cell in them will be 1080p in 2006, and certainly the Canon/Toshiba SEDs in 2 years, with 100,000:1 contrast ratios. The sand is already shifting, and I'm already holding off my HD purchase until I can get a hold of 1080p at a decent price point, since I think it's pointless to buy a ($5000) set I'll be bummed about in 18-24 months anyway. Thinking of buying an OK DLP in the meantime, but the damn DLPs are all full of speakers and huge stands that take up too much room (not in terms of depth, which I don't actually care much about, but width/height). Be nice if someone made a straight up DLP display without all the extra crap.

Anyway, as for the overall point that there is no 1080p content, that is certainly true, but I imagine that will change with BRD, and in theory some subset of PS3 games will probably be in 1080p down the road.

However, I don't expect much from my cable company. Could be a very long time before that level of resolution is broadcast on cable, if ever. But if compression tech keeps improving who knows, maybe they'll have plenty of bandwith in a few years. Hard to say, but I bet on them stuffing more channels down the same pipe, which doth not bode well for higher res TV.

Also, pardon my idiocy, but can someone explain to me how the HDMI output on the 360 not digital? :/


SED technology is looking to be the course for future televisions (really looking forward to this).

Oh and the 360 is not equipped with an hdmi output.

[Infernal]

Yes, they have, the only one I can think of (off the top of my head) is the Westinghouse 37" 1080p lcd and it is getting rather good reviews from critics. There are also I believe a few 1080p dlp sets on the market as well but I personally dont care for dlps so I know rather little about them.


Oh and the Westinghouse is really rather affordable.
Yah its really cheap actually (Well for 1080P anyway...) This week it was only 1699$ in the Best Buy ad so its really not much more expensive than a 720P LCD TV is these days.

[cpiasminc]

Yah its really cheap actually (Well for 1080P anyway...) This week it was only 1699$ in the Best Buy ad so its really not much more expensive than a 720P LCD TV is these days.
That's what you call "really cheap"? In wouldn't be prepared to call it that in any context until you dropped that amount by about $1600.... Though, admittedly, that is the Best Buy price which is rarely if ever the "best buy".

[Infernal]

That's what you call "really cheap"? In wouldn't be prepared to call it that in any context until you dropped that amount by about $1600.... Though, admittedly, that is the Best Buy price which is rarely if ever the "best buy".
Well what I meant was that in comparison a 720P LCD TV would only be 100$ less, so in comparison it seems like a good deal...

[frosty]

Umnmmm well how many of us are gaming on res. of 1600x1200, 1280x1024 and using an analog signal. High def can be done with analog, not only that but the majority of hd in homes do not have a digital input. I as well would have liked to see a digital out on the 360 but it doesnt hinder the quality at 720p (of course some televisions may see a "slightly" better refresh rate with the digital).

First of all, you are gaming on a PC monitor with a VGA connecter, something that is not available to a console without an adapter. Consoles are restricted to TV's, so the connectivity the TV supports is what the console is limited to. TV's only have component for analog HD input. Look at a component cable's 3 tiny wires and your big thick 15 pin VGA cable and tell me which will produce a more stable signal. 720p may be ok on component, but it can't even handle 1080p output, and it still isn't as good as digital for the resolutions it does support. If M$ had expected this machine to be around for more than a couple years, they would have included digital output. Especially considering that many of the HDTV's being released at the time if 360's launch already had DVI or HDMI input. 360 is supposed to be a next generation game machine, so why does it only offer the same video outputs that the origional x-box supported?

[OmniCloud]

I think M$ rushed a little bit that's why some of the features aren't in there...But they'll probably be some "adjusted" systems and add-ons down the road. Doesn't really matter to me, cuz they haven't interested me in the game department yet anyway...

[cpiasminc]

Well what I meant was that in comparison a 720P LCD TV would only be 100$ less, so in comparison it seems like a good deal...
Which is partly why I said "cheap in any context." Well, either way, 1080p isn't difficult to achieve at all on the display side of things. It simply needs a transmission mechanism that will support it. So the fact of the matter is that most companies are already cheating for extra money when they add on "1080p" support. All it really means is it can do a 1080 resolution and has some variety of connector that can handle the bandwidth.

Also, I've seen 720p LCDs that have some more impressive specs for far less than $1700. I've seen Samsungs with a 3000:1 contrast ratio, which for an LCD is quite impressive, for the $700-$1000 (23"-26") range.

If M$ had expected this machine to be around for more than a couple years, they would have included digital output. Especially considering that many of the HDTV's being released at the time if 360's launch already had DVI or HDMI input. 360 is supposed to be a next generation game machine, so why does it only offer the same video outputs that the origional x-box supported?
I wouldn't mind too much what Allard says. The guy simply carries around a buzzword dictionary for everything he says. I mean, the proactive synergy that guy yields to us is all part of the aggressive zero-tolerance customer loyalty paradigm that will springboard them through the following generation. Anyway, I'm pretty sure there were other forces at work behind the HD connection array.

[Crossbar]

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there were other forces at work behind the HD connection array.
What do you have in mind?

You don't think it was just a voice saying: "Make it dirt cheap this time, I want to keep my Windows money!!!"

[cpiasminc]

I do think cost was a factor, not so much because connectors are expensive, but because having both digital and analog outputs adds on board complexity. It also means the GPU has to be more complex as it will have to support more output protocols. There may well have been a hard limit on the GPU cost.

Also, the related use of the HD-DVD drive as a non-standard feature may have had something to do with it. While it means that the 360 isn't the media hub that PS3 may be, they'll still at least support HD resolutions through component and RGB cable. There was also the whole HD video streaming from a Windows PC, which 360 apparently supports and the same protocol is carrying though to Vista... I believe they said the protocol they use is supposedly not HDCP compliant, though I'm not sure why that's a problem as HDMI/DVI don't actually *require* HDCP, AFAIK.

[woundingchaney]

First of all, you are gaming on a PC monitor with a VGA connecter, something that is not available to a console without an adapter. Consoles are restricted to TV's, so the connectivity the TV supports is what the console is limited to. TV's only have component for analog HD input. Look at a component cable's 3 tiny wires and your big thick 15 pin VGA cable and tell me which will produce a more stable signal. 720p may be ok on component, but it can't even handle 1080p output, and it still isn't as good as digital for the resolutions it does support. If M$ had expected this machine to be around for more than a couple years, they would have included digital output. Especially considering that many of the HDTV's being released at the time if 360's launch already had DVI or HDMI input. 360 is supposed to be a next generation game machine, so why does it only offer the same video outputs that the origional x-box supported?
What is the difference these days between a pc monitor and a high def television these days (infact most hd tvs double as monitors). The 360 supports an assortment of diff. res with the vga connector. Also these days a console isnt restricted to a tv, monitors and even projectors are found in many homes. At 720p component connections are just fine, if your arguing that 1080p should infact be the standard, well to a point I agree but at the same time by the end of this gen Im willing to bet that we see relatively few 1080p PS3 games. On the other hand if your wanting just to belittle MS's console because the lack of a digital output surely you can find something better than that.

Also the concept of pc connectivity should recieve more lime-light from MS, some of the capablitites and messing around I have done has been a lot of fun. Also I personally look for a few more console options to arise as the next windows is released.

[Crossbar]

I.. There may well have been a hard limit on the GPU cost.
Yes and probably a hard limit on the console in total and hard limit on total components with limited possibility of cost reduction and then a hard limit on total components with greater possibility of cost reduction.

I am sure MS had a long list of things they wanted, but Allard said: "This is too expensive it has to go and this too, and this too, and hdmi... how many average joes have hdmi?....uhu...well then it has to go.
OK guys, I think we made something that fits the budget, lets squeeze this out to the market as fast as possible to grab as much market share as possible before we get some competition."

While Sony had the same long list, but Kutaragi said: "This we really need and this, and this, and hdmi... hmm.. let's make it two, I'm sure someone will use it one day. Expensive???? Let's the engineers have another go on this stuff and then we extend the life cycle another year."

Yes, my friends there you have the story behind the missing and the double hdmi output. :heybaby:

[VG Aficionado]

... And God removed 360's HDMI port and gave it to PS3, so it has two of them. That's the indisputable truth.

[frosty]

I'm not trying to belittle the 360, but MS for making such a big deal out of 360's HD capabilities, which beyond being able to offer it on all of it's games rather than some, are exactly the same as the origional xbox. Hell, even the PS2 can hit 1080i. And like I said, component for 720p is ok, but still is not as good as digital, which is slowly becoming the standard. That is something they should have considered. 360's PC integration is very cool, but I would prefer to have a game console that IS a PC (HDD w/ os), that can serve as a media hub for my living room. I'm not saying 360 is a bad system, but for $400 I would want the system that is a little more future proof.

[venomv]

At 720p component connections are just fine, if your arguing that 1080p should infact be the standard, well to a point I agree but at the same time by the end of this gen Im willing to bet that we see relatively few 1080p PS3 games.

I don't think 1080p should be standard or even pressured to make it, but it is good for it to be supported by the games that will want to use it, like I've said before, some companies like to push the graphical envolope, and 1080p helps in that regard.

Not that is any part of the reason I probably won't be getting a 360, I probably won't be getting an HDTV for awhile anyway.

[Smokey]

does it really matter if theres not much 1080p tvs out there its there for the future, some people will use it some wont. ill be running 720p anyways.1080p is like a bumper its there if you need it but you might never use it. *probably not a good example* lol

[frosty]

well, you say that now, but 5-10 years down the road, 1080p will be standard, and newer higher resolution sets will begin to pop up. Sony already has 2k x 4k projectors, 4 times the res of 1080p. In 5-10 years the tech behind them will be affordable to the general public, and you will be able to pick up a 1080p set for cheaper than most 720p sets today.

[woundingchaney]

well, you say that now, but 5-10 years down the road, 1080p will be standard, and newer higher resolution sets will begin to pop up. Sony already has 2k x 4k projectors, 4 times the res of 1080p. In 5-10 years the tech behind them will be affordable to the general public, and you will be able to pick up a 1080p set for cheaper than most 720p sets today.

No argument here, although I wouldnt doubt that higher resolutions could be standard in 5 years.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

To settle the 2x 1080p output thing. That's just a biproduct of Nvidia's chip engineering. The vast preponderance of their graphics cards have dual output of some kind. They didn't spend more money to make it as a gimmic or feature. It's just there. They just decided to tell us about it like it's a big deal.