Just a thought, what SONY would do for HUB.

[pari]

What SONY can do neturalize the 360 advantage ie LIVE. Currently 360 has a very good online service LIVE, other than that I do not see any compelling advantage and is not doing good in Japan which is crucial for MS this generation.
If the rumors are true and SONY annouces HUB, SOCOM as release game (with six months of free online access), SONY would instantly build a strong online community. SOCOM has been the most successful online game (ie in terms of number of people playing it). With six month free online access, SONY has got lots of time to retain the online user base. SONY does not need to have a perfect online network when PS3 releases. SONY can incrementally improve the online network and perfect its online service, as the online service is dependent more on the software than on hardware. So SONY would have about six month time (or more depending on how long it is giving the free access before charging) to keep improving the online service and rolling out more services as part of the HUB. If SONY is ready to think different and sign up iTunes for its HUB service, that would be a bloody blow for LIVE and WIN-WIN for SONY/APPLE. Bye bye MS's dream of digital dominance.
On other hand MS cannot do anything to stop the SONY online from becoming successful, as online play is not an unique advantage nor SONY dependent on windows for its product.
MS is playing the LIVE as the triump card for this generation, and LIVE is not an unique service or product that competitors cannot copy or produce. MS has advantage in software, but SONY has been running Everquest online play for long time and can use that expertise. Also as I mentioned earlier, online service is dependent on software and not on hardware, it can be continuously improved. iTunes started out with music, now does video also without any drastic change in user experience.
Without any unique advantage in the hardware or games it would be difficult for 360 to dominate PS3 if MS is depending on LIVE.

My reading of the tea leaves and pure speculation

[Loc]

Or have the majority of the service be free with extras only for those who pay. Maybe a free movie download a week for those who pay. And friend's list access to those who pay also. Anyways, the music and movie purchases can piggyback the costs of the rest of the service. Since the primary reason for people to go onto the service in the first place is to play games, it would be reasonably for music and movie purchases to pay for those costs. But anyways, wasn't it SCEE that was working on this service and not S.O.E.?

[Domination]

What SONY can do neturalize the 360 advantage ie LIVE. Currently 360 has a very good online service LIVE, other than that I do not see any compelling advantage and is not doing good in Japan which is crucial for MS this generation.
If the rumors are true and SONY annouces HUB, SOCOM as release game (with six months of free online access), SONY would instantly build a strong online community. SOCOM has been the most successful online game (ie in terms of number of people playing it). With six month free online access, SONY has got lots of time to retain the online user base. SONY does not need to have a perfect online network when PS3 releases. SONY can incrementally improve the online network and perfect its online service, as the online service is dependent more on the software than on hardware. So SONY would have about six month time (or more depending on how long it is giving the free access before charging) to keep improving the online service and rolling out more services as part of the HUB. If SONY is ready to think different and sign up iTunes for its HUB service, that would be a bloody blow for LIVE and WIN-WIN for SONY/APPLE. Bye bye MS's dream of digital dominance.
On other hand MS cannot do anything to stop the SONY online from becoming successful, as online play is not an unique advantage nor SONY dependent on windows for its product.
MS is playing the LIVE as the triump card for this generation, and LIVE is not an unique service or product that competitors cannot copy or produce. MS has advantage in software, but SONY has been running Everquest online play for long time and can use that expertise. Also as I mentioned earlier, online service is dependent on software and not on hardware, it can be continuously improved. iTunes started out with music, now does video also without any drastic change in user experience.
Without any unique advantage in the hardware or games it would be difficult for 360 to dominate PS3 if MS is depending on LIVE.

My reading of the tea leaves and pure speculation

This is where I believe this is going to change. For too long, online gaming has relied mainly on software, and because of that, a lot of these online servers operate about on the same scale. They can also be replicated a lot easier, and to a company like Microsoft, that isn't something you can just brush off. With Sony being an innovative hardware company, I wouldn't put it pass them to rely on their strongest side to push their next online server.

As for itunes, Sony doesn't necessarily need it. They have their own music division, which is one of the worlds largest. They cover a wide range of entertainment across the globe. I'm pretty sure they are going to lean on this for their next online server.

[Domination]

Or have the majority of the service be free with extras only for those who pay. Maybe a free movie download a week for those who pay. And friend's list access to those who pay also. Anyways, the music and movie purchases can piggyback the costs of the rest of the service. Since the primary reason for people to go onto the service in the first place is to play games, it would be reasonably for music and movie purchases to pay for those costs. But anyways, wasn't it SCEE that was working on this service and not S.O.E.?

I'm still not sure whether to take that as a rumor or not, but I do know some of the guys at Sony said something about Exchange/P2P playing a small role. And from what I know, that comes from SOE. So right now, the waters are still murky as to who might be behind the server.

[Raitei]

well all the information based around HUB was SCEE as far as i remember.

iTunes? why would sony, who curently have their own service (connect), use iTunes.. They wouldn't recieve any or much revenue on the song sales as opposed to using connect.. in which case their would be a sony benefit, although sony music.

Personally i see 6 months as too long for a free service.. maybe a month?

[Infernal]

Personally i see 6 months as too long for a free service.. maybe a month?
Actually I would prefer it be free forever... Buts thats just me I guess.

But seriously how hard would it be to copy Live? I mean Sony recently bought Zipper who makes SOCOM, and SOCOM online has almost everything Live has, except for the marketplace and stuff like that. But it has friends lists, clans, chat rooms, easy search options, and all that other good stuff, except its free. So if that can be free, why not Sony's online service. Add to that the fact that on their online they will probably sell music and movies for an added profit, also the additional content for sale for games and they shouldnt need to charge a monthly or annual fee. They could add other features quite easily too like video chatrooms and web browsing and they could easily make a better service.

[Sephiroth_VII]

In regards to hardware, what about useing those new Cell blade servers, from IBM? Since sony helped develope Cell, they could probably get them at a discount. Also, isn't this what Cell was designed to do?

[pari]

This is where I believe this is going to change. For too long, online gaming has relied mainly on software, and because of that, a lot of these online servers operate about on the same scale. They can also be replicated a lot easier, and to a company like Microsoft, that isn't something you can just brush off. With Sony being an innovative hardware company, I wouldn't put it pass them to rely on their strongest side to push their next online server.

As for itunes, Sony doesn't necessarily need it. They have their own music division, which is one of the worlds largest. They cover a wide range of entertainment across the globe. I'm pretty sure they are going to lean on this for their next online server.

May be because of my bias against MS. MS software side is strong but not exemplary. MS innovatived in xbox by putting together a disparate online in the PC world as an unified online service in the console world. Once you have the hardware in place, then its easy to make changes to the software. This is the problem SONY had with the original PS2, they had to make an expensive changes to hardware(users shelling out $40 for network card) for online play. The redesigned PS2 included the network adapter.

Between 360 & PS3 on the hardware side I see more innovation in PS3 than in 360, if any of things in PS3 like Bluray, HDMI, CELL, gigabit ethernet, makes it very succesful, then MS has to change the hardware is which is expensive. On the other hand for online which is software, making changings would be a software update.

iTunes, because there about 1billion songs out there in the world and only iTunes can play that song. Because of DCMA, the Apple's DRM cannot be reversed engineered by either MS or SONY legally. So Apple's DRM format is here to stay. In past, MS reversed the wordperfect format, so MS word could read it and uses that capture the market. Now with people having purchased songs from Apple, they are useless with all other software except iTunes. So it is in SONY's best interest to do a Co-opetition with Apple to neturalize MS. Because MS is a threat to both SONY and Apple.

[Z]

I just wish to point out something: Sony's vision of what they want to achieve will never happen in PS3. in fact, it will never happen.
you see, these guys think way ahead...I mean waaaay a head. though they ome closer to their original plans by their successes, their goals go further.
those who think PS3 will be the perfect media and online hub of their dreams will have to keep dreaming. reality proved that people aren't rerady for PSX in Japan-of all places! and that is just PSX.

concidering online, their goals from pre-PS2 launch is manifisting. PS2 started it. PSP got it closer, PS3 will get them closer some more and they will aim higher. that is how innovative companies are- thank God :)

[masteratt]

Sony likes to think they are un-stoppable and that they are the best hence their undoubtful sucess in electronic entertainment and I have no doubt that this "HUB" will provide us with great service (although I am worried about the monthly subcription fee...And the name)
If Sony keep to their word and actually stick with PS3 for nine years without releaseing another console, they will have plenty of time to develop their "perfect media and online HUB" dreams.

Comment on original post: You are very right about this false hope of MS thinking Live will win the console war for them...GET SOME GOOD GAMES YOU DUMBASSES!

[Dradien]

Or have the majority of the service be free with extras only for those who pay. Maybe a free movie download a week for those who pay. And friend's list access to those who pay also. Anyways, the music and movie purchases can piggyback the costs of the rest of the service. Since the primary reason for people to go onto the service in the first place is to play games, it would be reasonably for music and movie purchases to pay for those costs. But anyways, wasn't it SCEE that was working on this service and not S.O.E.?


I would believe it would be SOE. God knows I've spend many many nights loading up EQ1 and 2 and looking at those three damn letters.

[Danji]

SOE and SCEE/A/J are not related at all other than they both are a part of Sony. They don't collaborate as much as you would believe they would...really.

[Z]

If Sony keep to their word and actually stick with PS3 for nine years without releaseing another console...
ah, they didn't say anything about not releasing another console during its life cycle. PSOne and PS2 both have a decade long life cycle. but that didn't stop them from releasing a new system every 6 years.
although I am worried about the monthly subcription fee...And the name
only take facts as facts. things aren't announced yet. Sonyt always has style. I believe the service will have a sleek looking logo, name and looks whether it turns out good or not.

like.no.other

[Mitri]

Sony likes to think they are un-stoppable and that they are the best hence their undoubtful sucess in electronic entertainment and I have no doubt that this "HUB" will provide us with great service (although I am worried about the monthly subcription fee...And the name)
If Sony keep to their word and actually stick with PS3 for nine years without releaseing another console, they will have plenty of time to develop their "perfect media and online HUB" dreams.

Comment on original post: You are very right about this false hope of MS thinking Live will win the console war for them...GET SOME GOOD GAMES YOU DUMBASSES!

look at what i have made bold. and you will see why SONy believes they are unstoppable. :thumbl:

MS has some good games. just like SONY its just that your not seeing them. some of them are soo good that they are ported to SONy(splinter cell, rainbow six) Game informer, and many other reviews gave Forza a better rating than GT4.

[Viano]

I just wish to point out something: Sony's vision of what they want to achieve will never happen in PS3. in fact, it will never happen.
you see, these guys think way ahead...I mean waaaay a head. though they ome closer to their original plans by their successes, their goals go further.


Either way, thinking ahead is the only way to be ahead ya know.

[stanDarsh]

Comment on original post: You are very right about this false hope of MS thinking Live will win the console war for them...GET SOME GOOD GAMES YOU DUMBASSES!

Comments like these are uncalled for. Xbox does have good games, otherwise people wouldn't buy Xbox. It is as simple as that.

Whether they have as many good games as Playstation is open for debate and depends on personal preference ultimately.

[Z]

Comments like these are uncalled for. Xbox does have good games, otherwise people wouldn't buy Xbox. It is as simple as that.

Whether they have as many good games as Playstation is open for debate and depends on personal preference ultimately.
agreed. a 'good' game is a personal opinion. some may say Hello Kitty is the best game ever designed, while some still argue that the first Mario game on NES is as emotional and deep as FFX. anmd though I am not sure, I think the odds that you will find at least one guy that thinks Mortal Kombat is 'scarry'-but I think that is taking it too far...
Either way, thinking ahead is the only way to be ahead ya know.
yeah, totally. I was just pointing out that not the next system won't be te dream come true. it will be the next system twords that ever growing dream. so don't expect you can do anything on PS3. :)

[Maltroph]

microsft owns a good portion of apple

[cliffbo]

microsft owns a good portion of apple

all that Microsoft get out of Apple is royalties on certain things like podcasting. other than that they are fierce rivals and MS do not own any of Apple.

[edoshin]

Either way, thinking ahead is the only way to be ahead ya know.

Aim low and u will always hit your mark and give yourself a pat on the back

[Raitei]

One Question I would like to ask everyone is, do you think their is any reason sony cannot atleast rival M$. Think of This from a non fan-boy point of view, or even a M$ Fanboy. Try and Pick Any faults why it wont be better or match Live. I personally dont see any reason.

Oh and just on a sidenote, Z, i saw my first mortal Kombat Fatality at the age of four, from then on you know you'll be a gamer for life ^^

Oh, and i just slapped my moniter, thought those were flies. damn you StanDarsh

[edoshin]

I don't know if a Live-like experience is really such an important goal for Sony. Its not like they really need it as a hook to reel in some more users to increase their userbase. They have their sights on the type of success that Apple has achieved thru iTunes .. that's the Holy Grail for both Sony and MS. Sony has movie and music studios, and if they are able to deliver content anywhere near the level of iTunes, they will be rolling in the money. Whereas begging for subscribers to an online gaming community, and keeping that community happy is hardly worth the effort for the investment they are putting in.

[Z]

Aim low and u will always hit your mark and give yourself a pat on the back
yes, if you want to kid yourself ;)
One Question I would like to ask everyone is, do you think their is any reason sony cannot atleast rival M$. Think of This from a non fan-boy point of view, or even a M$ Fanboy. Try and Pick Any faults why it wont be better or match Live. I personally dont see any reason.
as I said, there isn't any technical reason why a firm like Sony can't make an online gaming service like Live. the question is should they? is that what their plans are, to copy live? if so, why haven't they made any kind of unified service on PS2 if only for starters? Sony, Ninty and MS all have different plans.
I think you may get a better idea looking at PSP's online apps to get a glimps of what PS3's online maybe like.

remember, we aren't talking about an operating system to think that MS is the only one that could do something so incredible. Live is the very first unified console gaming online service that although is good, it isn't that hard to copy. you something? game publishers do most of the work by reaching the Live terms and quality levels for MS to accept a game for online.

[stanDarsh]

Oh, and i just slapped my moniter, thought those were flies. damn you StanDarsh

:) Surprisingly you aren't the first to make that type of comment. Hope you didn't hit your monitor too hard ;)

[Domination]

One Question I would like to ask everyone is, do you think their is any reason sony cannot atleast rival M$. Think of This from a non fan-boy point of view, or even a M$ Fanboy. Try and Pick Any faults why it wont be better or match Live. I personally dont see any reason.

Oh and just on a sidenote, Z, i saw my first mortal Kombat Fatality at the age of four, from then on you know you'll be a gamer for life ^^

Oh, and i just slapped my moniter, thought those were flies. damn you StanDarsh

I think Live is a great server, but when I think of it, I think of a chatroom and a message board fused together. It's really nothing all that different from what's been done for over a decade now. Do I see Sony matching this? Well, with the first online server, a lot of these things were already covered but at a basic level. Then there's things like online marketing. Sony was already talking about these things when they were hyping the first online server (CyberWorld). When I look at that and compared it to a lot of what Sony is made up of, I have to question the big fuss around its structure. The problem was only getting all of these things up and running in a more comprehensive sense, which Microsoft proved to be more successful at doing with the last server.

But to answer your question, no, I don't see Live being hard to match at all. I think hardcores only want to believe this because it was the first unified server at its time that stood out.

Like I said earlier, I believe Sony is going to go beyond the software solution which made a lot of these online servers function about the same. I also believe they have found a way to compete with Live without the investment of a few billion smackers. *hah* That sorta reminds me why a fair number believed the Xbox (no matter which one you look at) wouldn't be matched in performance by other competitive rivals: a lot of money was invested into it. Being the first of your kind does not mean being the last, and I think many have become so blinded by that that they can focus on anything else beyond what's infront of them.

Also, in no way do I think Live is going to cease here. I believe Robbie Bach will be adding a music store to Live either this coming E3 or later down the line.

[pari]

I think Live is a great server, but when I think of it, I think of a chatroom and a message board fused together. It's really nothing all that different from what's been done for over a decade now. Do I see Sony matching this? Well, with the first online server, a lot of these things were already covered but at a basic level. Then there's things like online marketing. Sony was already talking about these things when they were hyping the first online server (CyberWorld). When I look at that and compared it to a lot of what Sony is made up of, I have to question the big fuss around its structure. The problem was only getting all of these things up and running in a more comprehensive sense, which Microsoft proved to be more successful at doing with the last server.

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jul05/1561
"On the other hand, there are many ways for game makers to increase revenues. For example, Sony recently tested a service that let players order pizza from a national restaurant chain from within the game."

The cover article for July 05 of IEEE spectrum, Engineering Everquest. The article talks about the challenges in keeping the Everquest going non-stop and what they had to do. So basically Sony has the experience in providing online service. Its the question of different parts of Sony working together as one.


But to answer your question, no, I don't see Live being hard to match at all. I think hardcores only want to believe this because it was the first unified server at its time that stood out.

Like I said earlier, I believe Sony is going to go beyond the software solution which made a lot of these online servers function about the same. I also believe they have found a way to compete with Live without the investment of a few billion smackers. *hah* That sorta reminds me why a fair number believed the Xbox (no matter which one you look at) wouldn't be matched in performance by other competitive rivals: a lot of money was invested into it. Being the first of your kind does not mean being the last, and I think many have become so blinded by that that they can focus on anything else beyond what's infront of them.

I totally agree with you, MS innovated by unifying disparate service. Is this innovation difficult to match absolutely no. This is similar to ICQ bringing IM, was IM difficult to copy NO. If it was then there would not have been no MSN. So Sony can definitely match Live and go beyond Live too.

Also, in no way do I think Live is going to cease here. I believe Robbie Bach will be adding a music store to Live either this coming E3 or later down the line.

If Sony is smart, it should better buddy up with Apple. This would be knock out punch to MS. By tying up with Apple, Sony gets instant 1Billion songs sold collection. In digital music download world there is only two camps, Apple Vs Playforsure (MS), the third front Sony connect failed. miserable. Apple also wins by tying up with Sony, they expand their market beyond iPod. iPod needs iTunes, iTunes needs iPod. Now with PS3, iPod & PS3 needs iTunes scenario is much more powerful and would deliever a sucker punch to playforsure camp.

[venomv]

I don't think Sony would be smart to partner with Apple in that area, Sony has their own service to worry about, and are currently being beatten bad by Apple. Adding Connect to PS3 could maybe help tip the balance, something I'm sure they want or they wouldn't have made Connect in the first place.

[Mitri]

Being the first of your kind does not mean being the last, and I think many have become so blinded by that that they can focus on anything else beyond what's infront of them

i'm not sure and i'm REALLY asking the question. wasn't SEGA Net for the dreamcast the first thing like live(i forgot what its called)?

[Z]

Being the first of your kind does not mean being the last
of course. and being first usually mean you have to pay more.
you really think it takes billions to make somethng like Live?
allow me to put it this way; Box took more than 4 billion dollars. now, do you think if MS could go back intime, would they still spend that much? these guys spent a billion on marketing for Box....
it took three companies only 400 million to make an evolutionary CPU that is amazing everyone with astonishing results.

I don't know about you, but I think MS over spends. of course, having to outsource nearly everything means you don't have that much choice, but I still say they could have spent a lot less while maintaining the same level. look at X2's project and expenses. not as big as Box is it? while keeping in mind X2 is so much more than Box- and I'm not only talking about Live.