Mario's Future

[Kliq]

After a rather dissapointing Mario Sunshine ... what do you think is next for Mario? I hope Nintendo takes him back to Mushroom Kingdom ... either for a platform title or an RPG title. Mario 128 is supposed to be in production, but not sure if that will ever see the light of day during the Gamecube lifecycle.

[Mirai]

Mario needs to try something new. And by that I don't mean another spin off like Mario Party or Mario Kart. He needs to go off on a new adventure but he needs to step away from what has already been done. Maybe something like Zelda, but in Mushroom Kingdom with some platform elements.

[Blaksmoke]

I think it was already stated that Mario 128 will be for Nintendo's next system.

[smellslikenintendospirit]

Mario should become a baby again. I'm sure no one would mind another Yoshi's Island.

[Mirai]

No, Mario 128 is rumoured to be for their next system but nothing has been confirmed yet.

[Wafangor]

I agree with marai, there should be some platforming. That would be a lot like 64, and still fun.

[Darth Link]

Mario RPG. Play More Harvest Moon!

[speed stick]

I don't know what they will do next but I know it should be good. Well I hope!

[disrupter006]

yoshi's island would b good if it were a side scrolling game and 2d (like viewtiful joe) but i dont know how good it would play as a 3d platformer

[Sigma_Crow]

The biggest Mario related mistake Nintendo has made is the attempt to make the Mario world logical.

This bears clarifying. From the beginning of the Mario franchise, the entire series could be catalogued as a Surreal Platformer. This implies that there are two forms of platforming: Logical and Surreal. A logical platformer is a game where the world you're in makes some kind of physical sense. Banjo Kazooie, Pitfall, things like that. If you fall, you will eventually hit the ground in one form or another.

However, there is the realm of Surrealistic Platform. This is games like all the old Mario games, Rayman, stuff like that. Games where stuff floats for no apparent reason. And where if you fall of a cliff, you will likely fall into oblivion. If you recall, most of the levels in 64 were floating in the air, and if you fell, you would just fall into nothingness.

Unfortunately, Sunshine was far too logical.The only times that it ever looked like old Mario was during the secret levels where you had to traverse the constantly moving platforms to reach your goal, and if you fell, there was nothing for you to hit. In my opinion, and I believe it stands true, those were the best parts of the game, both in challenge and in entertainment. But the rest of the game was too logical. There were no bottomless pits. There were no platforms that floated for no reason (except for the ones Yoshi could make). It was all to physically correct. And that was a mistake.

However, despite those inherent flaws, I will say that Sunshine was one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played.

[Kliq]

Very well said Sigma_Crow. Interesting outlook on the whole Surrealistic and Logical platforms. I never thought of it that way.

[Gunpei]

I want SMB3 remade in 3D

[________]

They need to bring back the old powerups. Fire flower, super mushroom, starman, super leaf, frog suit, hammer bros suit, tanooki suit, metal cap. And the old school enemies: goomba, koopa troopa, paragoomga, koopa paratroopa, hammer brothers, fire brothers, boomerang brothers, sledge brothers, bomombs, the koopa kids, shy guys, bloopers, cheepcheeps, boss bass, big bertha, little goombas, chain chomps, fire chomps, buzzy beetles, parabeetles, amazing flying hammer bros, dino torch, dino rhino, bullet bills, banzai bills, is this list too long?

[Blaksmoke]

I don't want anything to be remade.

[Viper]

Sigma, how coincidental. I was talking about that with my wife yesterday. About how games used to have 'platforms' in places for no appeareant reason at all but now everything has to be realisticly set.

[[[tavis]]]

they need a mario game that has the desert level, ice level, couds, fuck they NEED a mario 64 sequal

[________]

Hell yeah. They were supposed to release a SM64 2 for the N64DD, but didn't. They should have taken the code for that game and ported it to the gamecube. And no dumbass FLUDD.

[Kliq]

Yea, FLUDD pissed me off.

[Sigma_Crow]

The reason that FLUDD was a bad idea is that it really ruined the platformer dynamic.

Platformers, no matter what breed, all rely on one idea: if you miss step, you are dead. This is the principle set out by Pitfall, which was basically the first platformer. The entire genre rests on that fact holding true. And that is where FLUDD messed up.

In order to maintain that level of peril, you have to be aware of the fact that if you miss a jump, walk too carelessly, or fail to hit the enemy just right, you're likely to be a pancake. But with the Hover Nozzle, suddenly you had a safety net. If you miss a jump, you punch the nozzle and can adjust you're flight path and make the minor course corrections neccessary for a safe landing. You can't do that with platformers. They have to have the "do-or-die" aspect.

And not only that, there is the ever present danger of having to make physical contact with you're enemies. But again, FLUDD changed things by letting you snipe out you're enemies and bring them to their moistened doom without getting anywhere near them.

All things considered, what FLUDD did was take all the chalenge out of what could have been a decent game.

[________]

I'm going to go replay Mario Sunshine and not use FLUDD. Mabye it will be better.

[monkey_pirate]

Fuck giving mario a water gun, give him a sword and have him meet up with link to tag teem Ganondorg and Giga Bowser

[C.J.]

I'm going to go replay Mario Sunshine and not use FLUDD. Mabye it will be better.

Aside from being impossible, yes, it may be better.

[The Dude]

I loved Mario Sunshine, but it was one of the weaker mario games. The next mario should combine 2-D and 3-D. A new revolution in games.

[MagicJuggler]

Hell, they need a Mario Realtime Strategy. Select your Faction (Mushroom Kingdom, Koopa Clan, Smithy's Gang, etc.), and get a going. Start off with basic troopers that damage each other by walking into themselves, then get more advanced units, like spellcasters, etc. If anybody has seen the Flash film on videogamedc.com "Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom 2," then you'll see what I mean.

[neo999955]

mario 128 should be for GCN (ad if they do move it to the next gen they'll have to change the 128). I also think they should not remake the nes/snes mario, but go back to it. We want those old powerups, and nintendo has the ability to create something new with it, what i don't know, but I know they can do it. Oh and the Mario RPG, they are making one, Paper Mario 2 or whatever they are calling it. I never played the original on N64, but I hear it was awesome, so that's something to look forward to.

[Blaksmoke]

Paper Mario has nothing to do with Mario RPG, aside from Mario.

[________]

And it was an RPG. And there were 7 things you had to get. Also, some levels in SMS can be beaten without FLUDD. Also, they should release Mario 128 for Gamecube if their next system is backwards compatable, meaning that people would still buy it for the next system. Another thing, Nintendo's next system, if backwards compatible, should improve the graphics of the Gamecube games played on it like the N64 expansion pack did.

[Majora]

Sigma Crow, why the hell do you talk in such a try-heard techy manner? Surreal platform... logical... what the fuck dude.
Old Marios were kick ass cos you got Mazza eating mushrooms and grabbing leaves and shit and flyin through the air and exploring castles! Sunshine is playing with water on a stupid island filled with badly designed chaarcters! Nuff said!


Gyarrr next 3D Mario musy be old school mario with playable Peach/Luigi/Toad.

[HolyPaladin]

After a rather dissapointing Mario Sunshine ... what do you think is next for Mario? I hope Nintendo takes him back to Mushroom Kingdom ... either for a platform title or an RPG title. Mario 128 is supposed to be in production, but not sure if that will ever see the light of day during the Gamecube lifecycle.

A score of 92% is dissapointing?

Electric Playground 100.0%
Gamespy 94.0%
GamePro.com 100.0%
Games Domain 90.0%
GameSpot 80.0%
GameNow 100.0%
Electronic Gaming Monthly 95.0%
IGN 94.0%
Nintendo Power 100.0%
Game Informer 97.5% (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/533287.asp)

[Sigma_Crow]

Sigma Crow, why the hell do you talk in such a try-heard techy manner? Surreal platform... logical... what the fuck dude.
Old Marios were kick ass cos you got Mazza eating mushrooms and grabbing leaves and shit and flyin through the air and exploring castles! Sunshine is playing with water on a stupid island filled with badly designed chaarcters! Nuff said!


Gyarrr next 3D Mario musy be old school mario with playable Peach/Luigi/Toad.


Two reasons:

A.) That's how my brain works.

B.) Smart people tend to distiguish themselves from the ignorant masses in that manner. Not that I am implying that you are among those masses, of course. As I've said before, I'm not the Virtual Philosopher for nothing.

As far as Holy Paladin's report goes, while ratings do tell what professional reviewers thing of the game, it doesn't neccessarily ensure that it is an entirely good game (though it usually does). That is left up to the consumer. I for one loved Sunshine, flawed as it was. I know people that hate it with the burning anger of a thousand suns. And I also know advocates that reject any notion of errors in the game. I suppose this is just one of those games that divides people.

[Viper]

I agree with you Sigma, the lack of 'instant doom' took away some of the Mario formula.

It needs to go back to the block bashing, head stomping, shroom consuming, jump-a-thon, ethereal non-sensical worlds we have come to love.

We need the fireball and falling spikes for no appearent reason, the lakita tossing spikes, not following with a damn camera like some film student, hidden blocks, the return of the suits, water worlds (done properly), ect.....

[Sandman]

A score of 92% is dissapointing?

Electric Playground 100.0%
Gamespy 94.0%
GamePro.com 100.0%
Games Domain 90.0%
GameSpot 80.0%
GameNow 100.0%
Electronic Gaming Monthly 95.0%
IGN 94.0%
Nintendo Power 100.0%
Game Informer 97.5% (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/533287.asp)
It was disappointing for a Mario platformer. As a game, it was very good, just nowhere near expectations for a Mario game.

[jonapete2001]

They should re release all the old mario games from nes through 64. Just like they did the zelda games. I know this would not really affect the future of mario games but it might get that upcoming future game to sell better.

[peasantlover]

A score of 92% is dissapointing?

Electric Playground 100.0%
Gawd, Tommy Lamarcho (sp) is retarded... he bashes really good Nintendo games (he hated Metroid Prime, and SSBM even though he helped design the music for it) then he raves on Mario Sunshine, a LOUSY game, which has all the flaws he hates in video games (such as invisible walls, etc.)

Electronic Gaming Monthly 95.0%

eh, I rarely see EGM give a Nintendo developed game a bad review. You have to be more critical than that, guys

IGN 94.0%
Nintendo Power 100.0%

^^^ not reliable
(http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/533287.asp)


the most important review:
Peasantlover - 20%

Sigma, all the reasons you gave are not the reason Mario Sunshine was disappointing. the real reason: it was not fun. If Mario 64 was like a excstacy induced bliss, Mario Sunshine was waking up the next morning with a 300 pound transvestite. ugh.

[________]

Dear god, I hope we see Mario 128 sometime during the gamecube's life cycle, but only if the next nintendo system is backwards compatible, so that people will still buy it for the next system, it would be like having it for gamecube and nintendo's next system.

[Sigma_Crow]

Sigma, all the reasons you gave are not the reason Mario Sunshine was disappointing. the real reason: it was not fun. If Mario 64 was like a excstacy induced bliss, Mario Sunshine was waking up the next morning with a 300 pound transvestite. ugh.


Wow. That is probably the greatest analogy I've every heard. And, ironically, those two things are often related.

While I did in fact say that I had gobbs of fun playing Sunshine, it didn't come near the trancendental experience of playing 64. There was one movie critic (I think it was Ebert) who said that he wished he could see Citizen Kane for the first time again. That was one of the reasons that Mario 64 was great. It had never, never been done before, and it was so fresh, so new, that it rocked the gaming community to its knees. This effect would not be repeated untill FF7 came out, and even then it wasn't as great. But more importantly, it was a seriously fun game.

But it was because of the reason I listed that it was fun. That ever present peril, that ehileration of making it to the top, the joy of crushing some massive bosses. Because these things (among others) were lacking in Sunshine, it wasn't as fun.

But I still contend that it was in fact a fun game, just not as fun as 64.

[Kliq]

Yea, the 64 version was innovative ... something new that we'd never seen. Sunshine was just the same old recycled stuff with FLUDD and a new setting.

[________]

They should put Mario 64 on a bonus disk with improved graphics, extra stars, and Luigi, and the unreleased SM64 2.

[Pep33]

I think they should get rid of the idea of finding 150 gold shiny things. The levels should be in the mushroom kingdom and you should have to do certain missions like beating up enemies and fixing 'blank.' They HAVE to bring back all the classic enemies and characters there holding to much back.

[Mirai]

We just need to get back to basics. 2D platforming was the shit. If Nintendo remade SMB3 but with updated graphics, redesigned levels, new worlds, new enemies, co-operative play and cube exclusive extras like the GBA connectivity fans will rejoice. It would be something old and something new at the same time. Fans would by it just for the nostalgia and because they'd know they're getting a good quality game.

[TheIronJew]

I liked FLUDD, but I think they should make it into a powerup, like the fire flower or cape feather.

[Mirai]

I would have much prefered the Fire Flower and Racoon Suit in Super Mario Sunshine than FLUDD.

[________]

Here's my idea:
A Mairo game that is 3-D, but has the theme of "get to the end of the level" instead of "find a crapload of shiny things". There would sometimes be stages with multiple exits like in Super Mario World. Most stages would be like the platform parts of Super Mario Sunshine, except with environments, enemies, and items.

[peasantlover]

Wow. That is probably the greatest analogy I've every heard. And, ironically, those two things are often related.

While I did in fact say that I had gobbs of fun playing Sunshine, it didn't come near the trancendental experience of playing 64. There was one movie critic (I think it was Ebert) who said that he wished he could see Citizen Kane for the first time again. That was one of the reasons that Mario 64 was great. It had never, never been done before, and it was so fresh, so new, that it rocked the gaming community to its knees. This effect would not be repeated untill FF7 came out, and even then it wasn't as great. But more importantly, it was a seriously fun game.

But it was because of the reason I listed that it was fun. That ever present peril, that ehileration of making it to the top, the joy of crushing some massive bosses. Because these things (among others) were lacking in Sunshine, it wasn't as fun.

But I still contend that it was in fact a fun game, just not as fun as 64.


Yer right about all that, of course. But even if I had never played mario 64, I dont think I woulda like sunshine. Just because it had to many internal flaws... (and I think, prolly a few bugs)...

[MagicJuggler]

I still say that they make a Mario RTS, dammit. The concept is pure gold!

[DLX]

they need a mario game that has the desert level, ice level, couds, fuck they NEED a mario 64 sequal


Best Fucking Idea Ive heard yet in this fuggin thread.

[Sigma_Crow]

Just because it had to many internal flaws... (and I think, prolly a few bugs)...

I don't know about bugs, but the flaws I listed do in fact stand alone. while playing Mario 64 does make the errors in Sunshine stand out like to one White Guy at in the Apollo, they also show up in without that reference. Those facets of the game ruin the platforming experience in general. And pigeon holing the game into various tropical locals, while being highly aesthetic, really screwed up any chance of level variety.

And does the Mario Tema fear powerups? Honestly.

What I would like to see is a psuedo 3D side scroller like the Mario Level in SSBM. That would be perfect. Plus, nobody would see it coming. Nobody.

[pyroblaze15]

I herd that Mario 128 has been taken off the GC game list and maybe evey any list because i herd that Nintendo is putting Mario to rest and coming out with something new. I know that sounds crazy and it would really suck if they did but it is something that Nintendo could very well do. I mean what else could Nintendo do with Mario I cant think of anything... puting the old power up's into a new 3-D game would be awsome but still theres not much that Nintendo can really do with Mario anymore other than remaking old games or Mario Party, Kart, Golf, or tennis games.