The HDD and you (and Sony I guess)

[Danji Ikari]

I think that the HDD is mandatory bit is a very shocking part of the announcement so I made this thread to discuss just that as trying to do such in the megathread would not be fruitful.

As everyone and their mom has mentioned on these boards before the HDD has a certain pricepoint that it cannot drop below because of the mechanical nature of it. This means that the price of the PS3 will be limited down the road so it makes me wonder why Sony would do this after MS had such problems with it.

The price is no doubt $400 in the US if not higher. This is what I believe due to the nature of the launch and the HDD inclusion. Now that it is true that the PS3 and 360 are equal price we now have to compare the HDD bundle of the 360 with what you get with a PS3.

Here comes the Sony part. When Sony launched the PS2 they tried to get it to have smaller taxes as it came overseas because it was a home computer. They were, naturally, dejected because it was nothing of the sort. Now with the PS3 coming with a HDD with all of the PC glory that is Linux they can now market it as a (low cost and powerful) PC and appeal to the trade commisions for a lower tax on it.

I still haven't got over this explosive ejaculation of news we got today..but there's one thing that people always bring up. "How are the games gonna be?" well..consider this. From the time the developers of the 360 got their beta kits to launch was 2 or 3 months. For the PS3 developers will have their final kits for about the same amount of time after working with betakits for about a year (or a little under). I think the quality of this launch will be better than the 360.

And one last thing....HDD? WTF?! Sony has the mark of a silver tongue..alright.

[masteratt]

Interesting indeed. I am studying Media (finally stopped being patronisingly easy) and one of the sneakiest (cheating advert laws, cheating product in placements, sponsorship etc) companies were named Sony and after Nike, they are the best at shipment (Stats correct to of 2004) which mean that what you suggest well (and probably is) what Sony is going to do.

My expectation of price (in UK pound)= £349.99.

As you may have read, Sony is very careful about what developers make for their systems.
For PSP for example, they [Sony] said that games can be ported but they wanted something (anything) extra added to make it different. As you can see, this shows how sneaky they [Sony] are but also assures the gamers don't get a straight port.

Now we know Sony reminded the developers to have HDTV and 60GB of HDD in mind when developing for the PS3, which means that they want their launch titles to look "WOW" but I am assuming that Sony is also working 'closely' with famous 'hardcore developers' (Konami for example) to ensure and to give tips on making the best use of PS3 hardware.
Also, Sony themselves will of course spring out a few mediocre titles. I say 'mediocre' but the Jet-Li game on the PS2 remains one of my favs.

Well, while typing I forgot what this topic was about (haha, sorry) but nice to get all that off my chest.

[cliffbo]

I think that the HDD is mandatory bit is a very shocking part of the announcement so I made this thread to discuss just that as trying to do such in the megathread would not be fruitful.

As everyone and their mom has mentioned on these boards before the HDD has a certain pricepoint that it cannot drop below because of the mechanical nature of it. This means that the price of the PS3 will be limited down the road so it makes me wonder why Sony would do this after MS had such problems with it.

The price is no doubt $400 in the US if not higher. This is what I believe due to the nature of the launch and the HDD inclusion. Now that it is true that the PS3 and 360 are equal price we now have to compare the HDD bundle of the 360 with what you get with a PS3.

Here comes the Sony part. When Sony launched the PS2 they tried to get it to have smaller taxes as it came overseas because it was a home computer. They were, naturally, dejected because it was nothing of the sort. Now with the PS3 coming with a HDD with all of the PC glory that is Linux they can now market it as a (low cost and powerful) PC and appeal to the trade commisions for a lower tax on it.

I still haven't got over this explosive ejaculation of news we got today..but there's one thing that people always bring up. "How are the games gonna be?" well..consider this. From the time the developers of the 360 got their beta kits to launch was 2 or 3 months. For the PS3 developers will have their final kits for about the same amount of time after working with betakits for about a year (or a little under). I think the quality of this launch will be better than the 360.

And one last thing....HDD? WTF?! Sony has the mark of a silver tongue..alright.

i absolutely agree with you. i think the games are going to be the best ever released with a new console. another surprise no doubt.

[Old_Timer!]

Well guys, like I said and hoped. There is only one version of the PS3 and the HDD is included, Sony has their eyes on the prize (Console Domination) price point is secondary. I expect the system at a moderate $299-350.

[OmniCloud]

The news is starting set in on me too..But i think sony will bundle the PS3 w/HDD and make that the only way u can really buy a PS3. THe seperate PS3 by itself will probably be released in 07 like there doing with PSP...

[cpiasminc]

Well, as far as the HDD being standard, I guessed wrong on that side, but I guess that does mean they can offer the console itself at a higher price point. Also, using a 60 GB drive means it's probably a standard-size drive, which also means that it's a cheaper drive.

I was basically thinking that a non-HDD PS3 would have a price point somewhere in between the core and premium X360 prices because they have some costlier stuff, but putting it at or higher than the premium 360's price means risking comparing a "core" PS3 to a premium 360. Making the HDD standard means that it's feasible to put it out higher, but not too much higher than the premium 360 package.

[Crossbar]

Can't forget Deano Calvers blog:
"Then we have textures and geometry and least we forget animation data and sound. These content items consume the vast majority of the RAM. Off the top of my head its in the region of about 300Mb in total! This is all streamed as well, so be glad you have a nice big disk to put things on…"

I wonder if he really let his tongue slip or if he actually was thinking about the blu-ray disk which he later stated.

[frosty]

Team Xbox says KK later said Sony "might end up installing it in all PS3s, though that depends on the market". Is that true?

Also, it's going to be interesting to see what the devs have to say now that this information has been released.

[Domination]

I think that the HDD is mandatory bit is a very shocking part of the announcement so I made this thread to discuss just that as trying to do such in the megathread would not be fruitful.

As everyone and their mom has mentioned on these boards before the HDD has a certain pricepoint that it cannot drop below because of the mechanical nature of it. This means that the price of the PS3 will be limited down the road so it makes me wonder why Sony would do this after MS had such problems with it.

The price is no doubt $400 in the US if not higher. This is what I believe due to the nature of the launch and the HDD inclusion. Now that it is true that the PS3 and 360 are equal price we now have to compare the HDD bundle of the 360 with what you get with a PS3.

Here comes the Sony part. When Sony launched the PS2 they tried to get it to have smaller taxes as it came overseas because it was a home computer. They were, naturally, dejected because it was nothing of the sort. Now with the PS3 coming with a HDD with all of the PC glory that is Linux they can now market it as a (low cost and powerful) PC and appeal to the trade commisions for a lower tax on it.

I still haven't got over this explosive ejaculation of news we got today..but there's one thing that people always bring up. "How are the games gonna be?" well..consider this. From the time the developers of the 360 got their beta kits to launch was 2 or 3 months. For the PS3 developers will have their final kits for about the same amount of time after working with betakits for about a year (or a little under). I think the quality of this launch will be better than the 360.

And one last thing....HDD? WTF?! Sony has the mark of a silver tongue..alright.


I don't have the exact quote on hand at this very moment, but it seems Ken Kutaragi never said that the 60GB HDD would be standard. The message was misinterpreted, I'm pretty sure of it. He said something along the lines of developers relying on the HDD as if it were standard or something to that effect, which is why it is required. So what I'm thinking is, Sony has devised a plan that is almost certain to get the consumer to purchase the HDD. I'm thinking something similiar to a battery pack in a handheld or a memory stick/card; without these things, performing certain tasks are doable/operatable, but you are very limited to some of the things you are able to do without it - kinda like the PSP as a media station. The best real example I can use is Rockstar's GTA series on the PSP that utilizes the memory stick for in-game features.

I just wanted to point that out.

[masteratt]

They gotta rip us off somewhere or they have to release the console for $600+. Just like having to purchase multitaps, memory cards, network adaptors for PS2- I am sure the PS3 will offer "optional" accesories.

[Coded-Dude]

the PSINext article says the HDD will be required; whether or not it will ship standard it still unkown, but highly likely....

[Domination]

Well, as far as the HDD being standard, I guessed wrong on that side, but I guess that does mean they can offer the console itself at a higher price point. Also, using a 60 GB drive means it's probably a standard-size drive, which also means that it's a cheaper drive.

I was basically thinking that a non-HDD PS3 would have a price point somewhere in between the core and premium X360 prices because they have some costlier stuff, but putting it at or higher than the premium 360's price means risking comparing a "core" PS3 to a premium 360. Making the HDD standard means that it's feasible to put it out higher, but not too much higher than the premium 360 package.

It's like I said awhile back, if sold as the bare unit with a controller, I see the PS3 at $350. But, if buddled with something that isn't usually included, I see it at $400. If the HDD is the be bundled with it, that alone, I'm predicting a hundred dollar price jump. I'm realy not seeing anything above $400 for consumer reasons alone and partially Blu Ray's success. So I'm thinking the HDD is either going to be excluded but advertised to the extreme, or we are clearly underestimating Sony's advantage to price matching. I won't be too surprise if the above so happens to turn up true since it won't be the first time.

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

I'm just going to put this out here and hope it's picked up and spread across the web. There is this assumption, spread by anxious game journalists and lamers alike, that to play PS3 titles you are required to have the HDD, which may or may not be included in the final hardware. It simply isn't true AFAICT. It's a complete misread of everything that's been said on the subject. Gamers aren't required to use the HDD, the devs are required to develop for it. No biggie.

Later

Dio

[Coded-Dude]

Sony gets their parts fabbed cheaper than MS doesn, and standard 60GB HD is NOT $100!

[woundingchaney]

The devs were told to dev games as if there was one present. This doesnt mean that a game wont run without a HDD. Devs could code around the presence of a HDD (much like MS's theory on the HDD, and their response on the matter). It turns out that there is no confirmation of a HDD being in every PS3 (as of right now). Simply stating a HDD is required could mean a multitude of things, such as reequired for internet play, downloads, web browsing, etc.

[masteratt]

Sony answers four questions and asks a million. They truly do keep us in the dark until release.
Most people will end up getting a HDD regardless though. To store games would be the most obvious reason since I doubt a Memory Card is...Oh man this is just too much questions to handle at this time of night. Memory cards? Storage capacity for MC (if there is one)? How much will that cost? Will there be bigger HDD available? How much does a Bluray needs to store saved games? ...

[Domination]

I'm just going to put this out here and hope it's picked up and spread across the web. There is this assumption, spread by anxious game journalists and lamers alike, that to play PS3 titles you are required to have the HDD, which may or may not be included in the final hardware. It simply isn't true AFAICT. It's a complete misread of everything that's been said on the subject. Gamers aren't required to use the HDD, the devs are required to develop for it. No biggie.

Later

Dio

Thank you for bring that up because it needs to be nipped in the bud....quick.

Because the 360 relies on this for backwards compatibility, due to the previous console having an internal HDD, it is also assumed that Sony's PlayStation needs this to pull off the same task, and that's just not true. Developers didn't have to rely on the HDD in the PS2 for anything because it was barely adopted, for the main part, and it was a peripheral.

I kinda misread that since I heard the both of 'em, but yeah, I agree.

[Coded-Dude]

Memory cards? Storage capacity for MC (if there is one)?It will defiantely be MS pro duo compatible(other than that I don't know) current limits are 2/4 GB with 8 GB being released later and 32GB as the theoretical limit. Though they will be pricy at first!
Will there be bigger HDD available? thats what UPGRADABLE means
How much does a Bluray needs to store saved games? ...huh

[Domination]

Sony gets their parts fabbed cheaper than MS doesn, and standard 60GB HD is NOT $100!

I don't doubt that one bit. It is why I say, we could also be underestimating Sony's ability to price match.

When the Xbox was at 8gigs, Sony was at 40gigs with FFXI included. While Microsoft was losing about $125 on the Xbox, partially due to its HDD, Sony was profitting on each HDD that was sold for $100.

This 2.5 60GB HDD is much smaller yet faster, therefore, more expense, but Sony has more access to these this things than a company like Microsoft since they are under that umbrella. But from a business sense, I'm thinking Sony may want to look out for themselves first, which is why I'm predicting about $100 for the drive. As much as it will allow, I'm not complaining.

[Z]

we have to keep or minds on what 'required' means. solve that, and everything will be crystal clear.
as said here, Sony will not ship an uncompleted system by forcing people to purchase add ons to do the basic funcion: play games and DVD/BD mvies.

so what 'required' means is that you have to get it for the Linux OS. that is for starters. I think MMOs will also require it as well.

it just doesn't make sense to make the HDD standard. and they never said that. it has been proven by Box that a standard HDD- though small- in size- is not finanically feasable. look at waht MS did with X2's case.

also, Kuturagi have already said in the past that the HDD will not be for gaming, but for other multimedia functions.

From the time the developers of the 360 got their beta kits to launch was 2 or 3 months. For the PS3 developers will have their final kits for about the same amount of time after working with betakits for about a year (or a little under). I think the quality of this launch will be better than the 360.
final devkits will be released in June. the launch is in November. that gives them 5 whole months till launch with final devkits. that is longer than what they had with X2. just to get things out of the way.

PS. R&C 2 took less than a year to make. Sega made a football game from the ground up in 5 1/2 months (on PS2 no less). although I don't expect miracles, I am happy they'll have 5 months to fix some potential bugs like framrate issues and what not.

[Mitri]

The devs were told to dev games as if there was one present. This doesnt mean that a game wont run without a HDD. Devs could code around the presence of a HDD (much like MS's theory on the HDD, and their response on the matter). It turns out that there is no confirmation of a HDD being in every PS3 (as of right now).

just a few questions. if the devs were told to develope as if there was a hdd present then why wouldn't they(why woulf they try to develope without it)? why wouldn't Sony put one in? MS told their devs to work as if one WASN'T their because they knew not all people would have the hdd. :shrug:

They gotta rip us off somewhere or they have to release the console for $600+. Just like having to purchase multitaps, memory cards, network adaptors for PS2- I am sure the PS3 will offer "optional" accesories

they just haf to rip us off to make profit somehow sooner. think about it. all the things you named plus dvd remote(xbox), rumble pak(n64), expansion pak(it was needed to play certain games)(n64) memory cards(everything), etc..(i'm tired):snooze: :piss:

i absolutely agree with you. i think the games are going to be the best ever released with a new console. another surprise no doubt.


how do you think that? because they have more time? yeah so....alot of games had plenty of time to be crap. for example on all of your beloved ps2's the game killzone...need i say more?(if so hit me up), PD0 on 360(had forever and is crap. don't just bash because its on 360. it would be the same if it was on ps3) same goes for Kameo(since 2001), Xenosaga II(it was a alright game but they dropped the ball), Madden 06 on 360(a better looking sega genesis version??)..alot of time but still were crap.

[ Simply stating a HDD is required could mean a multitude of things, such as reequired for internet play, downloads, web browsing, etc./QUOTE]

[QUOTE]As part of the PlayStation Business Brief today in Tokyo, Ken Kutaragi confirmed that the PlayStation 3 will require a hard drive peripheral for games
"The hardware was developed with the hard disk in mind," Kutaragi said.


REQUIRE it to play games. it doesn't say go on the net, it doesn't say download it says PLAY GAMES. going by what kk said the ps3 was designed for the hdd or the hdd was designed for the ps3. however you want to take it.

:matrix:

[woundingchaney]

This leaves the potential for a non gaming PS3 and a gaming PS3 with the harddrive.



I dont find this likely but somebody had to say it. After all KK said that the PS3 wasnt a gaming machine.:trismile:

Flame away

[Z]

just a few questions. if the devs were told to develope as if there was a hdd present then why wouldn't they(why woulf they try to develope without it)? why wouldn't Sony put one in? MS told their devs to work as if one WASN'T their because they knew not all people would have the hdd.

that is what we are trying to figure out...
This leaves the potential for a non gaming PS3 and a gaming PS3 with the harddrive.
forcing people to by an add-on to get the basic functions (in this case playing games) will not only put them in a tough spot, but also is a reason for lawsuits.
it is one idea though, but I think it is highly unikely.
Flame away
who can flame you with that face?

[Smokey]

who can flame you with that face?
too true Z :smoke:

[Smokey]

well my opinion is that it is going to be made standard with a HDD otherwise why would kk say
As part of the PlayStation Business Brief today in Tokyo, Ken Kutaragi confirmed that the PlayStation 3 will require a hard drive peripheral for games
"The hardware was developed with the hard disk in mind," Kutaragi said.

[RavenFox]

The HDD will be there. Its pretty obvious with what the machine will be doing other than games.

[Domination]

just a few questions. if the devs were told to develope as if there was a hdd present then why wouldn't they(why woulf they try to develope without it)? why wouldn't Sony put one in? MS told their devs to work as if one WASN'T their because they knew not all people would have the hdd. :shrug:

they just haf to rip us off to make profit somehow sooner. think about it. all the things you named plus dvd remote(xbox), rumble pak(n64), expansion pak(it was needed to play certain games)(n64) memory cards(everything), etc..(i'm tired):snooze: :piss:



how do you think that? because they have more time? yeah so....alot of games had plenty of time to be crap. for example on all of your beloved ps2's the game killzone...need i say more?(if so hit me up), PD0 on 360(had forever and is crap. don't just bash because its on 360. it would be the same if it was on ps3) same goes for Kameo(since 2001), Xenosaga II(it was a alright game but they dropped the ball), Madden 06 on 360(a better looking sega genesis version??)..alot of time but still were crap.

[ Simply stating a HDD is required could mean a multitude of things, such as reequired for internet play, downloads, web browsing, etc.



REQUIRE it to play games. it doesn't say go on the net, it doesn't say download it says PLAY GAMES. going by what kk said the ps3 was designed for the hdd or the hdd was designed for the ps3. however you want to take it.

:matrix:

http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/erm.gif Did you even read that quote or did you just snatch that comment out of thin air?

Let's review that quote, shall we:

As part of the PlayStation Business Brief today in Tokyo, Ken Kutaragi confirmed that the PlayStation 3 will require a hard drive peripheral for games
"The hardware was developed with the hard disk in mind," Kutaragi said.

Now, maybe I'm just seeing spots or something, but to me, I'm reading, "required for games," not play games. A memory card is required for games unless you are looking to unlock secrects and finish the game in one setting each time it is played. I think it would really help your debate if the text wasn't skewed first before pronouncing it as legit.

As far as the HDD in mind, I had already explained this on the first page. Maybe you missed. Sony is obviously going to force the consumer to purchase it - somewhat similiar to the PSP, I'm guessing. Really, man, the image is not worth it.

[woundingchaney]

who can flame you with that face?


Im too sexy for Z
too sexy for Z
So sexy is ME

[Mitri]

Now, maybe I'm just seeing spots or something, but to me, I'm reading, "required for games," not play games. A memory card is required for games unless you are looking to unlock secrects and finish the game in one setting each time it is played.

what else would you do with a game other than play it? you can stare at it and you can use it as a mirror but what else? you can't compare a hdd and a memory card like that. they are both used to store data but other than that...what? the memory card can't be used to cache data? it can't be used to store full fledged games?(if what their planning comes to fruit)

for instance if the game is developed for the hdd(like Sony told the devs) and it wasn't there how would it work correctly? to put it simple that's like telling a clothing designer he should make clothes that have 3 arms and you sell it to people with 2 and a hole in the back.

[my name is Nobody]

I can't believe people think that Sony is going to release
the Playstation 3 video game console and make it not able to
play games unless you have a hard drive. Gamespot reported
that as as well as game informer and gamepro. Gamepro even
called and asked spokesperson if the hard drive is standard
the spokesperson said they plan on it being but circumstances
my prohibit it from being so they can't make it official. Then
gamepro says worst case scenario is it won't play games with
out the hard drive. Unfortunatly they didn't ask the spokesperson
about that. there is no way you will need the hard drive it will
play games out of the box. My prediction is the first year it comes
bundled standard then they release the PS3 with out it lower the
the price and release hard drives with differnt amount of space.
to chose from. I think that makes sense if it dosen't i'll rework it.

[venomv]

They want the games made with a HDD in mind, so you will get better preformance with a HDD, I doubt it would be to the point where you couldn't play without a HDD. Considering the HDD is removable at least as of last E3.

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

Just wante to point out this is the same exact situation as MS was in back at E3. It's just been misinterpreted and convoluted this time through. It's been stated that 360 devs were told to design their games as though the system would NOT have a HDD. That's actually not true. They were told expressly to design them as though one WAS present, but not to rely upon them. It's why every game but two that I know of will work without it, but at a performance hit.

In short, required that the devs design for it, but not to place all their eggs on that feature.

People are still bringing this up, so that's why I keep restating this.

These statements do not mean that a HDD is standard, and they do not mean that a HDD is required to play games, or that a lack there-of mames the machine a game console. They mean that an HDD is still optional, and that having it will allow for some nice features in games, but without it, PS3 is still that, PS3: It's still a game system.


Later

Dio

[Lekko]

Do you think you could just throw any HDD in the PS3 and utilize it for basic storage? As long as the pins lined up and the drivers worked....

Or do you think that ONLY PS3 branded and formatted drives will work in the PS3? I know that the "official" drive will have Linux on it, but if we're talking about basic basic necessities like savegame files. Do you think a "normal" HDD will work if you just slap one in? Or only "official" ones?

[Coded-Dude]

For the PS3 interface(gamesaves files, etc.), I would imagine that it will have some sort of proprietary filesystem format that cannot be reproduced by unofficial hardware(without some extreme hacking of course) but that is just a guess.......

[Lekko]

It would defenitly need a proprietary filesystem no doubt. Whatever HDD you put in there will have to be reformatted to work. But a program to reformat a drive is pretty small, and could be embedded in the PS3 OS.

It's just that whatever drive you would put in there would not be fully featured to have the "full" linux OS (if there is one even). The "full" Linux would have to be installed onto the drive either preloaded or on a special formatting disc. For basic stuff like savegames and media, I think it would be fine. Look at the PSP MS, same kinda thing for basic functions out of the box.

[Coded-Dude]

The drives for PS2 were modded with differnt pinouts for this very reason, I would expect the same from the PS3 drive.........

[Domination]

what else would you do with a game other than play it? you can stare at it and you can use it as a mirror but what else? you can't compare a hdd and a memory card like that. they are both used to store data but other than that...what? the memory card can't be used to cache data? it can't be used to store full fledged games?(if what their planning comes to fruit)

for instance if the game is developed for the hdd(like Sony told the devs) and it wasn't there how would it work correctly? to put it simple that's like telling a clothing designer he should make clothes that have 3 arms and you sell it to people with 2 and a hole in the back.

Of course it's not a memory card nor did I ever hint at such a thing. I was giving you an example for the term "required" in relation to games being played. Who knows what Sony has planned, but I know well enough that it will have little to do with disabling the console from playing games unless you had an HDD on hand. What you are saying is not only a bogus rumor, but it's totally ridiculous at that. I would be better convinced if that were some sort a prank, to be honest with you.

[Junox50]

how do you think that? because they have more time? yeah so....alot of games had plenty of time to be crap. for example on all of your beloved ps2's the game killzone...need i say more?(if so hit me up), PD0 on 360(had forever and is crap. don't just bash because its on 360.



Not everybody here bashs something because its on 360. Also, could you perhaps rewrite your post over? No offense, but I could not understand half of what you were saying.

Anyway, that would be well beyond ridicolous to have PS3 not play games without HDD. I don't see how Sony would consider such a thing.

[Mitri]

Not everybody here bashs something because its on 360. Also, could you perhaps rewrite your post over? No offense, but I could not understand half of what you were saying.

i know not everyone bashes things because its on the 360. i was talking about those people that do bash because of that. if you don't then it wasn't directed at you. but everyone in here is 1 of that 1oomillion+ proud owners of the ps2. right?(i am)

all i was really saying was that extra time doesn't mean much anymore. for example look at killzone. it was a highly anticipated game, the halo killer(some people called it). it had som many push backs you would think that it would be a great game. if you've played it you know that it isn't as great as all those delays would suggest(i put in a reserve as soon as they previewed it. by the time i got to use my receipt it was faded out). the other games i mentioned were in similar situations.

[Junox50]

i know not everyone bashes things because its on the 360. i was talking about those people that do bash because of that. if you don't then it wasn't directed at you. but everyone in here is 1 of that 1oomillion+ proud owners of the ps2. right?(i am)

all i was really saying was that extra time doesn't mean much anymore. for example look at killzone. it was a highly anticipated game, the halo killer(some people called it). it had som many push backs you would think that it would be a great game. if you've played it you know that it isn't as great as all those delays would suggest(i put in a reserve as soon as they previewed it. by the time i got to use my receipt it was faded out). the other games i mentioned were in similar situations.

That's understandable, but your posts sometimes tend to suggest otherwise.

About Killzone: Yes, it was a highly anticipated game. Yes, it did not meet the hype the media built for it. But where did you hear about it being delayed so many times? There was a rumor that killzone was going to be delayed to 2006, but it never happened. Killzone was not delayed at all. It was in development for a long time yes, but it was not delayed.

Besides, most of the game's flaws were mostly technical. The hardware was outdated and Guerillia couldnt acheive what they wanted with Killzone on PS2.


These statements do not mean that a HDD is standard, and they do not mean that a HDD is required to play games, or that a lack there-of mames the machine a game console. They mean that an HDD is still optional, and that having it will allow for some nice features in games, but without it, PS3 is still that, PS3: It's still a game system.

That's exactly what I thought.

[rpgamer_2k5]

The HDD would probably sell well as a standalone unit if Sony allowed us to download a limited number of games/movies for free. I would definitely go for a $100 if it allowed me to download Wild Arms II and say, 3-4 other games for free. After the free downloads, one must pay.

[Z]

Just wante to point out this is the same exact situation as MS was in back at E3. It's just been misinterpreted and convoluted this time through. It's been stated that 360 devs were told to design their games as though the system would NOT have a HDD. That's actually not true. They were told expressly to design them as though one WAS present, but not to rely upon them. It's why every game but two that I know of will work without it, but at a performance hit.

In short, required that the devs design for it, but not to place all their eggs on that feature.

People are still bringing this up, so that's why I keep restating this.

These statements do not mean that a HDD is standard, and they do not mean that a HDD is required to play games, or that a lack there-of mames the machine a game console. They mean that an HDD is still optional, and that having it will allow for some nice features in games, but without it, PS3 is still that, PS3: It's still a game system.


Later

Dio

agreed. there will be alot of misconceptions sadly. even after the launch. some still think Sony said PS2 will have Toy Story graphics...

rpgamer; that is what I am hoping for. I said it before, Sony should allow a few free downloads of not only games, but even music and other things their new Connect service will offer. they once made a 1 free download offer with every big mac. they should allow this at least for every Sony multimedia player.

[cliffbo]

another subject layed to rest. many where suggesting that Kuturagi never actually said it would be included, even though to me it was obvious. this is great news for us and bad news for the doubters:

Our Sony representative has confirmed this morning that PlayStation 3 will come with a 60GB HDD as standard, but that can be upgraded if preferred.

Some of the larger US websites have been speculating that PlayStation 3 would be shipping with an optional 60GB hard disc drive. However we can confirm this morning that all PS3 consoles will be sold with the HDD out of the box. Sony's president of Computer Entertainment, Ken Kutaragi, announced on Wednesday that all PS3 games are being developed to take advantage of the 60GB HDD.

Another essential use for the HDD will be Sony's online service, which will offer downloads in a similar way to Microsoft's Xbox Live platform. Clearly now it is Sony's intention to standardise the PlayStation 3 community, so that all developers know that everybody who owns PS3 will benefit from HDD-related features in-game. Bizarrely this used to be Microsoft's standpoint with its original Xbox, but the Redmond corporation has since taken an about turn with Xbox 360

http://uk.videogames.games.yahoo.com/25/news/ps3-will-have-hard-drive-as-standard-3c0925.html

[Coded-Dude]

ony should allow a few free downloads of not only games, but even music and other things their new Connect service will offer.
Well didn't they say they were working on a model in which games WOULD be free, except for the micropayment in-game feature? I would expect alot of "on-line" games down the road to be free..... Certainly they will give you specials/discounts/etc., they already do that. Tuesday is currently buy one album get one freeday on Connnect, and there are other specials as well. I have received several free song downloads just for the hell of it. I think one was, heres soem free downlaods, thanks for being a customer. SO you can porbbaly bet some stuff will be free, especially when it first starts! - they want to grow their userbase.

Anywho, remember one of the SCE execs(can't remember which one) hinted at the HDD coming pre-loaded with stuff.....

[Coded-Dude]

I wonder who their Sony rep is....?

[cliffbo]

I wonder who their Sony rep is....?

i know what your saying here. but we can only hope that its legit. i think it is though.

[VG Aficionado]

Interesting if true, but I don't know how likely a 399 € price could be now. They must know what they're doing because it seems too good to be true, and at the same time I don't think they want to kill our wallets.

On the other hand, the basic online service (including multiplayer gaming) should be free and as such there wouldn't be rebills at all. I'd definately prefer paying 450€ for the console with an HDD and free online than 400 € and having to pay a yearly fee for the online service until the end of the life of the console.

[cliffbo]

Interesting if true, but I don't know how likely a 399 € price could be now. Does they really know what they're doing? It seems too good to be true, and at the same time I don't think they want to kill our wallets.

On the other hand, the basic online service (including multiplayer gaming) should be free and as such there wouldn't be rebills at all. I'd definately prefer paying 450€ for the console with an HDD and free online than 400 € and having to pay a yearly fee for the online service until the end of the life of the console.

i can't remember where i read it but one site stated that the PSP made more in revenue than the DS and the Xbox combined. if true then that would go a long way in offsetting any innitial losses.

[VG Aficionado]

i can't remember where i read it but one site stated that the PSP made more in revenue than the DS and the Xbox combined. if true then that would go a long way in offsetting any innitial losses.Yeah, I read that recently too. Actually, I always thought that the money they'd lose with PS3 could be compensated with the huge revenue of PS2 game sales for two or three more years yet. I don't know about PSP's real profitability though.

[cliffbo]

Yeah, I read that recently too. Actually, I always thought that the money they'd lose with PS3 could be compensated with the huge revenue of PS2 game sales for two or three more years yet. I don't know about PSP's real profitability though.

Sony announced a US price drop of PSP to $199 on March 22, the new package will only include the PSP, AC adaptor and battery. Currently 15 million units of PSP were shipped worldwide, the PSP generated US$1.6 billion in 2005, more than both Xbox 360 and Nintendo DS combined.
http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm

here it is.

[Smokey]

im thinking theyve submitted to a HDD not for our convienience but because the bluray drive might be still on the slow side?? anyone tell me im wrong plz

[cliffbo]

im thinking theyve submitted to a HDD not for our convienience but because the bluray drive might be still on the slow side?? anyone tell me im wrong plz

no-one can tell you that your wrong but cripes!!! start a thread on this immediately! never thought of it myself and i wish you hadn't either. but it is a valid question i think.

[Smokey]

shes up & running cliff

[Domination]

http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm

here it is.

:buldge: That's something I definitely missed.

I also thought Sony would sell the handheld as a bare unit and nothing else - kinda like they did over in Japan. This thing is going to sell quick.

I'm still not convinced on the source just yet. But if this so happens to turn up true, that will be great. I just think it'll be sold seperately.

[Smokey]

The Console Charts and Japanese Most Wanted Charts are updated.

- GameSpot revealed the February 2006 videogame sales in North America, software sales decreased by 22% from last year, but hardware sales went up by 31% due to the two portables and Xbox 360:

Hardware


PlayStation 2 - 300,000 units
PSP - 170,000 units
Xbox 360 - 160,000 units
Nintendo DS - 150,000 units
Software


Madden NFL 06 (PS2,EA)
Fight Night Round 3 (Xbox 360, EA)
Fight Night Round 3 (PS2, EA)
Call of Duty 2 (Xbox 360, Activision)
Animal Crossing: Wild World (NDS, Nintendo)

[section]

300 000 units of PS2? I guess people are wanting to get into some game franchises they haven't yet tried before converting to PS3..

But again about the HDD, I'm pretty sure Sony wants to push HDD as much as possible now because of their network plans, they will gain lot of money from selling games through their service. But I somehow don't still buy it that it will be mandatory if it's not bundled so there will be only one SKU, 60 GB HDD will be be enough for most of the users. I don't trust any sites who say that "their Sony contact told us that...", I only trust info straight from the horses mouth.

Sony will shoot themselves in the foot if they abandon their "one SKU" tactic so it's either bundled HDD or no HDD at all until much later.

[cliffbo]

The Console Charts and Japanese Most Wanted Charts are updated.

- GameSpot revealed the February 2006 videogame sales in North America, software sales decreased by 22% from last year, but hardware sales went up by 31% due to the two portables and Xbox 360:

Hardware


PlayStation 2 - 300,000 units
PSP - 170,000 units
Xbox 360 - 160,000 units
Nintendo DS - 150,000 units
Software


Madden NFL 06 (PS2,EA)
Fight Night Round 3 (Xbox 360, EA)
Fight Night Round 3 (PS2, EA)
Call of Duty 2 (Xbox 360, Activision)
Animal Crossing: Wild World (NDS, Nintendo)

Smokey, where did you get these figures from. could you post a link please. :)

[xbdestroya]

Revenues aren't the same as profits though, just so everyone's clear. The product with the higher revenues can of course make losses in the end just as a product generating fewer revenues can end up making crazy profits. In the end it's all about margins. I'm not surprised PSP has surpassed 360 and DS, simply because it has both a relatively high price and has shipped a large number of units. But I wouldn't take it's revenue surpassing those other two systems as being an indicator in and of itself of anything fantastic.

Thay'll be a nice price drop though on the PSP, especially at a time when it's functionalty is going to be greatly expanded.

[woundingchaney]

Excellent news regarding the PS3's HDD :laugh:

This is infact a very risky move by Sony but could infact pay off. In a few years they may wish they never went with a standardized HDD. Although irregardless of this it is a good move from a consumer point of view (well consumers like me anyways).

Has this been confirmed by anyone other than this one instance. Something about "our" Sony representative doesnt sit right with me.

[Junox50]

:buldge: That's something I definitely missed.

I also thought Sony would sell the handheld as a bare unit and nothing else - kinda like they did over in Japan. This thing is going to sell quick.

I'm still not convinced on the source just yet. But if this so happens to turn up true, that will be great. I just think it'll be sold seperately.

I'm not convinced on the source either. That quote of "our Sony representative" doesnt seem concrete enough. It it turns out true, that'll be one unexpected twist.

[Old_Timer!]

Wounding, and Junox, why are you guys are always looking for an angle on these stories. I mean there is something to be said about not be gullable but don't go overboard...

[Junox50]

Wounding, and Junox, why are you guys are always looking for an angle on these stories. I mean there is something to be said about not be gullable but don't go overboard...

Just what are you talking about? The source seems vauge to me. Therefore, i don't believe it until its proven otherwise by a more concrete source.

[Infernal]

I just dont understand whats not to believe? I mean the slides almost obviously say the HDD is bundled with the system and is required for use. I think people are just overanalyizing and thinking everything is just too good to be true.

[woundingchaney]

Wounding, and Junox, why are you guys are always looking for an angle on these stories. I mean there is something to be said about not be gullable but don't go overboard...


Why is it that when an article that comes out in favor of Sony it isnt criticized in the least bit, but when anything negative is released its considered trash or poor journalism.

I stay speculative in nearly in not only my views but my responses as well. I try not to play favorites and often times find myself defending others viewpoints as well as my own.

There is many reasons as to why Sony wouldn't incorporate a HDD, so until more confirmations other than this sketchy article Im staying skepticle. Im not saying its true but why only one source that is releasing a very vague article to begin with.

Personally as a consumer I would love a standard in package HDD, but my wishes should not skew my perception of the situation until the haze clears and we recieve additional confirmation.

[Garfunkel]

This is indeed good news but we should hold our horses for now until something more official comes around. just as woundingchaney said.

[Coded-Dude]

I was the second person to post in this thread, and I was skeptical!
How mcom I gets no love? j/k - I really don't care......
But until teh source is revealed or an official Sponser openly admintss to such a plan, I will remain indifferent

[Old_Timer!]

Yea dude I remember that quote as well, they're supposed have some extra's on the HDD. But that might have changed since there was no mention of it.

[chrismt]

Recently, Sony revealed a large amount of information about their upcoming console, the PlayStation 3. Among those details was the fact that the system would require a Hard Disk Drive (HDD) to play PS3 games. At the time, it was unclear whether the HDD would be included with the system or sold separately.

However, Yahoo! News is now reporting that the system will indeed ship with a 60 gig HDD. While this is contrary to statements made by Ken Kutaragi last year about the system shipping with a memory device, it will no doubt come as a relief to consumers. The PlayStation 3 is expected to release November 2006 worldwide.

Another site reporting off of the yahoo story.

[Smokey]

sorry cliffbo it was off that link you had wasnt trying to steal nothing off ya mate http://www.the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm

[Raitei]

Well really we have nothing to go on until we here it from the horses mouth. GDC is our onearest hope, speculation til then

[Smokey]

i really hope & think it will come standard with a HDD. theyre wanting to future proof it.

[cliffbo]

how much of that 60gb will you actually get? remember the 360s out of 20 you got 13. with os preinstalled and other software, will it be nearer 50 free?

[Smokey]

well my computer is 80g and im pretty sure ive got 74g to play with

[cliffbo]

well my computer is 80g and im pretty sure ive got 74g to play with

so, what, about 50 then. now how much HD stuff will that hold? two HD movies?! doesn't sound much. upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. but its still a good size though

[Smokey]

it depends on OS and everything. isnt a hd movie something like twice the size of a normal dvd. it all comes down to bitrates used etc. i spose theres a few variables.

[Smokey]

my dvd recorder does 4400 megabytes for a 2hr 8m movies. using a fixed bitrate. if i use variable it can use less OR more depending on the action thats going on.

[cliffbo]

it depends on OS and everything. isnt a hd movie something like twice the size of a normal dvd. it all comes down to bitrates used etc. i spose theres a few variables.

its doubtful whether you will be downloading full movies straight out of the box anyway, more likely dvd stuff to start with and music etc... it'll be good enough to begin with.

[woundingchaney]

Im getting confirming evidence all across the internet, and some of it not relying off of the Yahoo article. Im saying that it is safe to bet on a standard 60 gig HDD packaged with the PS3.


Oh and Cliff 50 gig would be a safe bet.

[Sephiroth_VII]

What about caching? Wouldn't that take up a chunk of space?

[Z]

not really. besides, it gets erased rather quickly- like RAM info.

[MasaC]

Hey! I just thought of something..

What if Sony are planning to relase the PS3 in november as a "PS3 Value Pack" with a 60 GB HDD and perhaps also a headset, a HDMI cable and a network cable.

At the same time they'll require the devs to make use of the HDD in the games and "program them as if the HDD was present" but still make it possible to play them without it.

Why would they do this you may think? Well, it would give Sony the oppurtunity to release a profitable PSThree in a couple of years, perhaps on a 65nm or 45nm process, without a HDD at a much lower price to the consumers than the original "PS3 Value Pack".

What do you think? A possible scenario or just a pipe dream?

[ddaryl]

without a HDD included in the PS3 Sony's grand plan for online content download fails

Sony plans on making big profits on its download on demand internet business model. if Sony does not include a HDD more then 50% of the PS3 owqners will not buy the HDD and will not try the online service.

Include it with the PS3 and you essentially bait many PS3 owners into particiapting and ulitmately preferring and returning as consumers.


SO IMO there is NO DOUBT the PS3 will inlclude a HDD and the price will not exceed $449 US... but I predict $399.99 US.

there will not be 2 differtn SKU's either

have a nice day

[rog27]

Hey! I just thought of something..

What if Sony are planning to relase the PS3 in november as a "PS3 Value Pack" with a 60 GB HDD and perhaps also a headset, a HDMI cable and a network cable.

At the same time they'll require the devs to make use of the HDD in the games and "program them as if the HDD was present" but still make it possible to play them without it.

Why would they do this you may think? Well, it would give Sony the oppurtunity to release a profitable PSThree in a couple of years, perhaps on a 65nm or 45nm process, without a HDD at a much lower price to the consumers than the original "PS3 Value Pack".

What do you think? A possible scenario or just a pipe dream?


Hey, stop stealing my brilliant ideas!... :happy:

Seriously, though, that was the basis of the heated argument I was having over at B3D with Scooby_Dooby for the past 5 days. I claimed Sony would 'bundle' the hard drive with a "PlayStation 3 Value Pack" in attempt to solidify a user base with a HDD present in every machine, so as to not have two divergent user bases growing independently of one another, which might lead to less support of HDD usage by developers. Then, in an attempt to avoid a cost floor, revise the SKU to be 'less' a HDD when the console's production costs are lowered through the ramping up to a more efficient manufacturing process (65/45 nm process, etc.). This would pass a considerable cost saving to the customer, allow for a choice of HDD (different sizes will be available by then), and, with the initial SKU setting the precedent that a HDD must be present for full functionality of the machine, maintain full developer support of HDD usage in games for the life of the console. Everybody wins...end of story.

I'd give you a link to the thread at Beyond3d, but the site is down for some reason right now.

[cliffbo]

Sony Computer Entertainment Europe has told Next Generation that the PlayStation 3 will indeed ship with an included hard drive.
Following up on a Yahoo Games UK & Ireland report that apparently confirmed that the hard drive would be included with the PS3, SCEE told Next-Gen.biz that it had been confirmed all along.

A Sony spokesperson said, "We [SCEE] didn't confirm it, but it was confirmed at the media briefing by Ken Kutaragi. It's a fully upgradable, 60 gig hard drive that will come pre-packaged with the system."

Although the rep did say that the inclusion of the hard drive was confirmed at the recent PlayStation Business Briefing, it was unclear whether or not Kutaragi's comments about the hard drive being "mandatory" equated to the hard drive being "included".

Kutaragi told developers at the briefing to develop games under the assumption that a hard drive would be integral for all games.

or are we being played with again so that we feel disappointed if it isn't included?
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2529&Itemid=2

[woundingchaney]

or are we being played with again so that we feel disappointed if it isn't included?
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2529&Itemid=2


That has got to be the most misleading article I have read in the last couple of years.:flamed:

[NeoPlayStation]

March 20, 2006

PlayStation 3 Hard Drive Confirmed As Standard

Sony has confirmed to Gamasutra that the PlayStation 3 will come with a 60GB hard drive as standard, removing the ambiguity on the issue, following potentially confusing statements from Sony's Ken Kutaragi at the developer's Tokyo conference last week.

The news was reported today by various news sites, and has been confirmed to Gamasutra by Sony Computer Entertainment Europe PR Manager Jonathan Fargher. The 60GB hard drive will be the default size, with other larger sizes available as separate peripherals. This follows Kutaragi's already acknowledged comments that all games will require a hard drive in order to run.

As previously reported on Friday, additional details on the PlayStation Network Platform, the PlayStation 3 equivalent of Xbox Live, have revealed that it will apparently provide a free basic service that includes online gameplay. According to these reports, only specific massively multiplayer online (MMO) titles and other premium services will require an additional fee.

Additional information on the hard drive and other technical aspects of the PlayStation 3 are expected during Phil Harrison’s keynote speech at GDC this Wednesday.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=8579

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[Sephiroth_VII]

That has got to be the most misleading article I have read in the last couple of years.:flamed:
Seconded:shrug:

[chrismt]

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=8579

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Wow someone actually got Sony to clarify an issue before they held a press event. I give a +rep to Gamasutra. We actually know things about the PS3 now! :queer:

[rog27]

Now I'd question Next-gen...as the tend to sensationalize everything. But Gamasutra?...They did their own follow up on the matter and spoke with a NAMED PR manager (not just an anonymous rep) makes it sound like a 'firm' confirmation.

It could change, but for now, I'd assume PS3 will be shipping with a HDD.

[rog27]

[Speculation. (but going to happen...mark my words)]

Sony is bundling a HDD with every unit. This is awesome because PS3 is a 'Location Free Server/Client Unit', meaning you will be able to use another device (i.e. PSP, another PS3, etc.) in some remote location and access files on the PS3 HDD at the home location (because PS3 is always on, probably with some sort of standby enabled, and connected to a broadband network). In this way, the PS3 HDD will not have to be made physically portable (even though it is 'removable') like that of the X360's HDD. If there is ever a reason you need to access content physically stored on your PS3's HDD while at a friend's house playing his/her PS3, you can do so using this 'Location Free' feature. Pure unadulterated awesomeness.

[/Specuation that will come true.]

[cliffbo]

[Speculation. (but going to happen...mark my words)]

Sony is bundling a HDD with every unit. This is awesome because PS3 is a 'Location Free Server/Client Unit', meaning you will be able to use another device (i.e. PSP, another PS3, etc.) in some remote location and access files on the PS3 HDD at the home location (because PS3 is always on, probably with some sort of standby enabled, and connected to a broadband network). In this way, the PS3 HDD will not have to be made physically portable (even though it is 'removable') like that of the X360's HDD. If there is ever a reason you need to access content physically stored on your PS3's HDD while at a friend's house playing his/her PS3, you can do so using this 'Location Free' feature. Pure unadulterated awesomeness.

[/Specuation that will come true.]

do you think that you would be able to do this through wi-fi with your mate next door? think of the community aspect of this. the more PS3 the bigger the community. whats the distance of wi-fi?

[rog27]

do you think that you would be able to do this through wi-fi with your mate next door? think of the community aspect of this. the more PS3 the bigger the community. whats the distance of wi-fi?

Not that far. Wi-fi was meant to be used indoors. Location Free has nothing to do with the type of connecting interface you use to the network....It has to do with the World Wide Web. You can stream things off of the home location's mass storage unit, use the www as the transmission protocol, and access it on the device on the other end anywhere in the world. The device on the other end can be wired or wirelessly connected to the internet...just like the PS3 on the originating end.

[xbdestroya]

Ok first of all, I've been saying the whole HDD/Value-pack/PS3/bundle thing for months now - so you all get in line! :smoke:

It'll be interesting to see how it actually plays out now though. On the 'confirmation' front of things, it'll take more than Jonathan Fargher to feel confident in the situation myself, just because PR guys sometimes don't even know - even if they think they do. I need to hear it from someone in the chain of command.

[section]

But if Ken has told the developers to 'develop with HDD in mind' doesn't the clause confirm the HDD itself? Because if you create a game to use HDD it benefits from it but if you don't then you won't lose anything, the game doesn't notice the existence of HDD at all.

So you aren't forced to develop your game for HDD use but you have the possibility to do so if you want, and are now even suggested to do so :happy:

[chrismt]

Well I suppose it would be similar to developers creating games with the memory card in mind, except the HDD will likely be priced substantially higher. Because of that higher price, I doubt they would launch the PS3 without a standard HDD.

[Z]

Hey! I just thought of something..

What if Sony are planning to relase the PS3 in november as a "PS3 Value Pack" with a 60 GB HDD and perhaps also a headset, a HDMI cable and a network cable.

well, that is what everyone is thinking. I don't think there is a single person that actually thinks an HDD is standard. it is a safe bet that they will handle it just like they handled PSP. they will most likely make only one version; the HDD bundle (with other accessories). about a year later, instead of a price cut, they will introduce the 'standard' or 'core' version without an HDD and all the fireworks.
I said they will do that for PSP and the PSP base pack will be released this month for 199. that is a much better choice since a Duo under 1G means nothing to me. every PSP owner that I know immediately buys a much bigger Duo with his PSP. so might as well get the base version.

[Goki]

Hate to dispell people's assumptions..

"Now, though, reports have surfaced claiming that Sony has confirmed that the PS3 will indeed come with a hard drive. Along with a number of European sites, GamaSutra is reporting that Sony Computer Entertainment Europe PR Manager Jonathan Fargher has officially said that the next-gen console will be packaged with a detachable 60GB HDD. He also said that higher-capacity HDDs will be available as premium add-ons, though he did not list any specific storage sizes."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146269.html

[Coded-Dude]

^yes that quote from Gamasutra has been posted........
*(of course there are still doubters)*

[cliffbo]

i can't believe people are still doubtful! i absolutely believe it will be there from the off... (what are you doing to me)... i think.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

If it's an end to buying memory cards, then hurray for hard drives.
The kicker for me is after you buy the console for hundreds of dollars you need to buy more and more accessories. A 2nd controller came standard with super nintendo and genesis. But not since then. So so if the number of 'sold seperately' items comes down then sign me up.

[VG Aficionado]

i can't believe people are still doubtful! i absolutely believe it will be there from the off... (what are you doing to me)... i think.I wouldn't say it can't be true, but I still find it hard to believe. I would prefer to wait for further confirmation rather than assuming it's just true. I can't be sure yet whether it's as simple as that.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Agreed. I'm all about optimism, but nothing beats the official word.

[Z]

so how much would Linux approximatly take on the HDD?
with PS2's 40G HDD, FF11 took a whole lot. would Linux take something linke half of the capacity?

[VG Aficionado]

If it's not a full-fledged OS with optional components and other stuff, it could take very little room in the HDD. There's a Linux PC distro that needs just around 50 MB, and it could very probably require much less than that to work in a closed environment like the PS3 and even PCs.

[lips]

question: are all laptop hard drive hot swappable? I have a laptop here from 2003, but i don't want to try this experiment myself, as it is a one drive system.

[VG Aficionado]

It should depend more on the rest of the hardware and the OS and its software than on the HDD itself, I think.

[Domination]

Im getting confirming evidence all across the internet, and some of it not relying off of the Yahoo article. Im saying that it is safe to bet on a standard 60 gig HDD packaged with the PS3.


Oh and Cliff 50 gig would be a safe bet.

Then we are clearly underestimation Sony's ability to price match. Not even a little bit can I see the console exceeding $400 at all. Blu Ray will never be adopted quick enough, and Microsoft or Nintendo's offer could easily sway the market differently.

[Sebastiano]

This not related to the PS3, but since we are talking about HDD I wanted to share this article with you all.

Samsung launches 32 GB Flash disk for mobile computers
Wolfgang Gruener
March 21, 2006 05:07


Taipei (Taiwan) - Samsung is first to announce a Flash storage device that aims to completely replace the traditional hard drive in some mass market mobile computers. The 32 GB solid state disk (SSD) drive comes in a 1.8" form factor and reads data at more than twice the speed of hard drives. Best of all: The SSD is promised to consume 95% less power than a hard drive.

Apple's decision to replace the 1.8" hard drive with a Flash memory device in the iPod Nano last October sparked a discussion whether Flash memory could soon replace hard drives in more applications than just MP3 players. We did not have to wait for an answer very long.

Samsung said it will be offering its 1.8" NAND Flash-based SSD in the not too distant future for mass market mobile computing applications. While the SSD's capacity of 32 GB cannot compete with traditional hard drives that currently offers up to 80 GB space, it offers superior performance and power consumption features that are likely to make the device the ultimate storage solution in some applications such as ultra-mobile computers, Tablet PCs and performance notebooks.

According to Samsung, the SSD will read and write data at 57 MB/s and 32 MB/s, respectively. We will have to benchmark such a drive in our test lab to verify this claim but if correct, the Flash disk would be about twice as fast as the latest 1.8" hard drive generation, which was measured at a read speed of 24 MB/s by the engineers of Tom's Hardware. The acceleration is most likely not enough to enable instant-on computers, but we would expect Windows computers to cut the system boot time at least in half.

Pure performance is only half the story of a SSD; the drive's light weight (15g), noiseless operation and a reduced power consumption may be even more important in most mobile applications. Samsung says that the Flash disk consumes only 0.1W when not in use and just 0.5W under load. For comparison, a typical mobile hard drive consumes somewhere between 1W and 2W of power in seek, read and write processes and between 0.2W and 0.8W when idle. Samsung may be a bit optimistic that the SSD uses just 5% of the electricity needed to power a hard disk drive, but it is clear that SSD will provide a substantial additional amount of battery time in mobile devices. In a common model that assumes that a hard drive consumes about 10-20% of the battery power, the SSD could add about 20-40 minutes of operating time in a notebook that runs about 4 hours on one battery charge.

Samsung did not provide a specific introduction date of the drive, but mentioned that it would offer 32 GB SSDs "soon." There was no detailed information on how much the drive will cost.

In a statement to TG Daily, Don Barnetson, director of Flash marketing at Samsung said that "pricing of Samsung's SSDs will be market determined, based on the cost of the underlying flash components at time of shipment. The assembly cost of the SSD is very small in comparison to the flash component cost, thus we believe it to be an attractive medium for customers who choose to take their notebooks to the next level and go entirely solid state." He mentioned that Samsung "does not expect to replace 50 - 60 GB hard drives with SSDs soon, due to flash's price premium." Intstead, the company is aiming for the sub-notebook market that typically requires 8 - 16 GB capacities. In this segment, SSDs are believed to "be cost effective over the next 12 months," he said.

However, the fact that Samsung aggressively moves into the mass storage space (see: Hybrid hard drives: Can Samsung and Microsoft invent a new market for 2007?) and Flash prices are forecasted to experience sharp drops, leads us to believe that the 32 GB device announced today will be priced significantly below (commercial grade) SSDs and hit the market in a price range between $750 and $1000 when introduced.

Flash disks that are offered today are almost exclusively sold into enterprise, military and government markets and offer higher performance and often more extreme temperature ratings than Samsung's mass market SSD. One of the few 32 GB Flash disks on the market is currently sold by Silicon Systems: The device comes in a PCMCIA form-factor and is priced around $6400. Other commercial SSDs include Adtron's (2.5") Flashpak, which is available in a 4 GB version for $546 and in an 8 GB variant for $1900.



SOURCE (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/21/32gb_ssd_samsung/)

If the PS3 will be equipped with a 2.5 HDD, I expect the PS4 to be release with a Flash disk in 6 years from now :cheers:

[Mitri]

Originally posted by ME
going by what kk said the ps3 was designed for the hdd or the hdd was designed for the ps3. however you want to take it.

just wanted to gloat. i was right.

[Z]

there is nothing like quoting yourself. lol

now wait till they give a price for the systme to see everyone posting "see? I was right!" ;)

[chrismt]

Sony also confirmed at GDC today that the price of the Playstation 3, which will be releasing in November, will be set at $299.99. We've also heard that Killzone, a gritty war game previously released for Sony's PS2, will be a launch game. No reason why Sony would announce this since it was a game that people wouldn't even care about (We think). Expect to hear more of our fake news coverage as time goes on here at GDC.

:google: Told you guys so!

I think Sony will announce the price of the PS3 at GDC, at $299.99, along with other info like if it will come with a HDD, the online service they likely have planned (I have a feeling it will be named Playstation Network Platform), etc. Maybe some new videos too. Quote me on this in some future unrelated thread to GDC.

;) So has there been any confirmation at GDC for the HDD yet?

[cliffbo]

jesus man its FAKE news. don't do that again :whip:

[chrismt]

Read the context around the bold such as the source being someobsurenewssite, and ....expect to hear more of our fake news coverage as time goes on here at GDC. Just kidding with you guys! :wave: Maybe I should try journalism though if I was able to make that seem real....

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I dunno know if this has been mentioned but it occured to me today, with an HDD in the system, quicksaves should be standard for games. Like you know, how they've been in pc games forever. Quick save for the win!

[CrumCon]

From chrismt

Sony also confirmed at GDC today that the price of the Playstation 3, which will be releasing in November, will be set at $299.99. We've also heard that Killzone, a gritty war game previously released for Sony's PS2, will be a launch game. No reason why Sony would announce this since it was a game that people wouldn't even care about (We think). Expect to hear more of our fake news coverage as time goes on here at GDC.


Told you guys so!


LOL, thgis is funny!

I guess you miss this part : Expect to hear more of our fake news coverage as time goes on here at GDC.

how could you miss that lol

[chrismt]

I dunno know if this has been mentioned but it occured to me today, with an HDD in the system, quicksaves should be standard for games. Like you know, how they've been in pc games forever. Quick save for the win!

There is the fundamental problem, though, over whether user controlled quick saves should be used at all since it would downgrade the skill needed to complete a certain section. But then again, it would be better than going into the progression in some games of Start>Options>Data>Save and taking a span of a minute or two to actually save it.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

pc games have had quick save since dirt. There's still plenty challenge to them last time I checked. Maybe designers should build the difficulty of their games around the level design and game mechanics and not the impracticality of scattered save points?!!
*eyes darting*
just a thought.

[kaphwan]

^Agreed.

Final Fantasy + Quicksave - Random Encounters = Flawless Game?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

it just might be, kaphwan.

[chrismt]

Well two out of three ain't bad with FFXII, unless it does have a quicksave feature too. If that is the case, I will prepare my soul to be consumed by metrosexuality and simulated MMORPGs. Not that it wouldn't occur anyways...