Killzone and Tomfoolery [Archive] - Page 2

Domination

07-26-2005, 07:32 PM

I somewhat have to agree with you guys. As much as it may seem impossible that those demos at E3 were actually done to spec, that Gundam demo pretty much puts a number of those rumors to rest its lonely grave, IMO. Also, the report on the software side seems to clear up some uncerntainties as to how some of the things we saw can be accomplished with such little effort. But I'm still not sure about the Tekken demo, though. Likewise, I won't be ruling it out just yet due to the Alfred Molina model showing some very similiar detail, if not superior.

One other thing I want to point out is Microsoft being a more formidable competitor to Sony than the others, not to mention the two launching much closer to one another this time compared to the last launch. Then there's the scarring of Sony's image where Microsoft used their disadvantages against them to gain recognition which resulted in fans not being as eager to dive into the hype pool as quickly, rather true or not.

Now, although it may sound delusional, I strongly feel that with a fan base that big (over 90 million) and many of them converting to pessimists, it could more than likely force a change, although Nintnedo seems to be a question mark at this point. But then again, Nintendo was never on the edge outside of the gaming market nor did they ever try to penetrate the market with a new format. With all that said, I think the odds are more positive this time than they are negative.

MediaStream

07-26-2005, 08:38 PM

cpiasminc

07-26-2005, 08:42 PM

I am reminded by a member here that said "no way Gundam could be real at E3". now, he is left speechles after the playble demo shown last week. now that is one happy gamer- understatement.
I'm not entirely sure why he'd be left speechless. I mean, the E3 Gundam demo showed features that were way beyond what was shown in the realtime demo. The realtime demo was pretty sterile and not very much was implemented, the movements were much more stilted, the shadows were more pixelly, and it still showed characteristic normal-mapping features. Given how far the project is, it pretty much sets in stone that the E3 demo was FMV with loads of post-processing.

For lighting, it's quite likely that they bake lighting and light probes using the same tools for both realtime and pre-rendered. Makes sense if they had planned from the start to use lightmaps and light probes -- keeps everything looking consistent.

MS sold ~20 million units worldwide.
Nintendo sold ~20 million units worldwide.

How exactly are they being 'more formidable'?
Nintendo isn't vying for an entirely identical market. There's much more overlap between MS's and Sony's target markets than there is between Nintendo's and Sony's.

MediaStream

07-26-2005, 09:05 PM

Nintendo isn't vying for an entirely identical market. There's much more overlap between MS's and Sony's target markets than there is between Nintendo's and Sony's.

But how exactly is MS being 'formitable'?

tazz3

07-26-2005, 09:16 PM

I just hope that this game is a launch game.
and it has a great story.
this game will make u for get about halo 3 .

Domination

07-26-2005, 09:19 PM

"One other thing I want to point out is Microsoft being a more formidable competitor to Sony than the others"

MS sold ~20 million units worldwide.
Nintendo sold ~20 million units worldwide.

How exactly are they being 'more formidable'?

Are you only looking at sales or the company itself? Microsoft has more than enough funds to match some of the basic parts of Sony's console. Microsoft also has enough funds to continue chipping away at Sony's fanbase if they were to continue their mistakes. Nintendo had to experience this the hard way. And although Microsoft cannot continue losing such an amount for long periods of times, let me remind you that they lost 4 billion on the last Xbox project and they still didn't give in while also managing to make their name known. Sega lost 500 million and were broken completely in two. Don't let the image fool you. These guys pack a lot more muscle than what you give them credit for. I just don't see Sony toying with these guys any longer - not with this much at risk.

xbdestroya

07-26-2005, 09:21 PM

But how exactly is MS being 'formitable'?

I think a lot of Domination's original comment on that stemmed from Microsoft being focused on the same demographics as Sony, being willing and with the means to fight a war of attrition in the way someone like Sega never could, and that the console markets as a whole for both these companies on some level serve as a proxy for a larger battle between the two; the quote-unquote "Battle for the Living Room."

PS - Looks like Dom came in with his own commentary, but I was close! :smoke:

@Mediastream: I see what you're saying though in terms of the precedent Microsoft has set with their current gen effort.

MediaStream

07-26-2005, 09:41 PM

xbdestroya

07-26-2005, 09:54 PM

I completely agree with everything you said Mediastream, and those are excellent points. It's definitely the case that for this gen, all the attrition was on Microsoft's side. Still, they have begun to dig in to Sony's North American mindshare, and are forcing (seemingly) Sony to launch their console a year earlier than they otherwise might have, having a very real effect on the costs of componentry like blu-ray and chips launching at 90nm that otherwise may have launched at 65nm.

I think Microsoft is hoping that this go around, Sony will be taking some attrition as well. Meanwhile on their end, all they have to do is scramble to become profitable this gen, and they will be able to stay in and fight the war... possibly indefinitely.

But your point is well taken - so far Microsoft has been the only one taking massive metaphorical losses in their siege of 'Fortress Sony.'

MediaStream

07-26-2005, 10:19 PM

I was afraid I might be coming off as hostile. I am totally wacked out on sugar after coding all night.

"Still, they have begun to dig in to Sony's North American mindshare"

But is there any evidence that that is the case?

As far as I can tell MS has captured the Dreamcast segment almost in its entirety plus a chunk of the pc gaming market. But have really had almost no effect on Sony or Nintendo's target consumers.

So far I have seen no evidence of anyone from the Sony or Nintendo communities expressing any interest at all in the 360 or any of the games for it. For the most part the range of interest seems to range from indifference to outright ridicule/hostility.

With essentially the same allocation of exclusive IP between Sony,Nintendo, and MS as this gen, I don't see any reason why there would be any shift from one platform to another for the vast majority of console owners.

rpgamer_2k5

07-26-2005, 10:28 PM

This just isn't happening.

Microsoft right now is being squeed very tightly not just in the Console market but their prime Window and the Server markets. Now Apple has switched over to the x86 hence are now a HUGE competition. We really don't know what Sony's Linux plan is all about which could end up being the first Cell home computer. Now we have Apple aiming for the server market with the Tiger and the x86 move could really help. What most tend to forget is Linux, sure it is not popular like Windows but it is VERY deadly. Linux is not just going to appear on IBM Cell Blade but also the HP blade servers. The HP blade servers are selling alot more units than the IBM counterpart and Dell is supporting Linux as well. MS is in a very tight situation and their prime sectors are the boss in MS so no attritions for MS's Xbox division.

What I see MS doing is rushing to launch a weaker console several months earlier than their competition. Also I don't believe that Sony pushed up their launch window, Sony was always looking at the 2006 time frame. We'll just have to see what Sony will doing in the manufacturing-end since no real info is available.

xbdestroya

07-26-2005, 10:36 PM

"Still, they have begun to dig in to Sony's North American mindshare"

But is there any evidence that that is the case?

It's hard to quantify, I know - but it's happened, of that I have no doubt.

It's the little things. It's the game store employees all talking the XBox up. It's my girlfriend's nephew wondering if I could bring over my 'XBox' so we could play Mario Party. (and he's never played XBox in his life, ONLY GameCube) It's Xbox's beginning to show up in cheesy MTV shows like 'Pimp my Ride.' It's parents thinking XBox is the 'cool' system to buy their kids.

And I think that's where Microsoft has begun to make inroads in the US - people who don't know, are starting to think 'XBox' by default rather than 'Playstation.'

News is willing to discuss Microsoft's Xbox in a much more serious light than they tend to discuss Sony's Playsation, the Wall Street Journal will write an ariticle on it any time there's a chance, etc etc...

So that's my feel on it all. Globally I think that Xbox is still very much an underdog brand, but here inthe US, I feel that even if their business prospects don't yet reflect it, the wind may be beginnign to turn in their favor.

Anyway we'll see.

You weren't coming off as hostile though, so don't worry about it. I'm enjoying this whole discussion tangent.

Domination

07-26-2005, 10:39 PM

"being willing and with the means to fight a war of attrition "

But Sony isn't fighting a war of attrition.

And even though MS lost an insane amount of cash they weren't willing to lose enough to overcome their higher priced hardware. As far as I know, MS's price cuts were never enough to force Sony to cut their prices on the PS2 to where they were losing money, or at least a significant amount of money for a significant amount of time.

I haven't looked at the numbers but just off the top of my head the price cuts by MS had no effect on PS2 sales. The only way MS could wage a war of attrition would be if they not only sold their console below their manufacturing cost but significantly below Sony's manufacturing cost.

The willingness of MS to lose money on the xbox I think is wildly over-estimated.

Very good point, but do you really think Microsoft has to make one single cent to make their name known to the public? THIS is where they stand now. They can only build on top of that. Now, if there is any major flaw in Sony's next console that Microsoft can take advanatge of, they are going to make it known to the public. It doesn't take a genius to guess where a few more heads will be turning next.

Raijin

07-26-2005, 10:50 PM

As far as I can tell MS has captured the Dreamcast segment almost in its entirety plus a chunk of the pc gaming market. But have really had almost no effect on Sony or Nintendo's target consumers.

Totally agree with this statement, look at how PS2 sells like hot cakes. It's truely unbelievable now. I mean around 37M of PS2 systems have been shipped only in the USA! Xbox has build its own market but I don't think the 360 will be outsell the first XBOX.

Look, in Japan, Sony is unbeatable (If I can say it like this :D ). 360 will do better than the first one (not too difficult you could say) btu certainly won't beat Sony over there.
In Europe, the situation is the same. XBOX here sells decently, either for the Gamecube but PS2 sells like hot cakes (~33M). The PlayStation brand name is even stronger here than everywhere else. I mean, you should have seen guys how people here (I live in France) were fighting each other to acquire the PS2 system at its launch. It was truly unbelieveble!

Microsoft will have a hard time to get Sony's market share, no matter how good is XBOX 360.

curryking1

07-27-2005, 02:47 AM

It's the little things. It's the game store employees all talking the XBox up. It's my girlfriend's nephew wondering if I could bring over my 'XBox' so we could play Mario Party. (and he's never played XBox in his life, ONLY GameCube) It's Xbox's beginning to show up in cheesy MTV shows like 'Pimp my Ride.' It's parents thinking XBox is the 'cool' system to buy their kids.

And I think that's where Microsoft has begun to make inroads in the US - people who don't know, are starting to think 'XBox' by default rather than 'Playstation.'

News is willing to discuss Microsoft's Xbox in a much more serious light than they tend to discuss Sony's Playsation, the Wall Street Journal will write an ariticle on it any time there's a chance, etc etc...

So that's my feel on it all. Globally I think that Xbox is still very much an underdog brand, but here inthe US, I feel that even if their business prospects don't yet reflect it, the wind may be beginnign to turn in their favor.

This is a truly excellent few points that you have made xbdestroya. The only thing I would change is to add Canada in with the US (to have North America minus Mexico, lol). I feel the same way about the marketing strategy Microsoft has set up, and in North America I have seen it is very effective. On Much Music (Canada's MTV but with fewer and less retarded advertising/people on it) Xbox 360 ads have been running for at least 2 months, if not more, and suprisingly often for any time during any consoles' lifecycle before.

This next part may seem crude (as in seemingly racially unforgiving, but I assure you I do not mean it in that context). Whenever I hear people in my school talk about videogames, the most popular and normal cliques (more casual gamers in general) in my school talk more Xbox (the only game I hear about is Halo 2 and if they like it or hate it compared to the original Halo) than PS2. PS2 in Canada lives amongst the Asian (you know, chinese, japanese) cliques mostly. Those people who are more into videogames in my school do prefer the PS2 over other systems however. I am confident with this observation because I am in touch with a lot of people at my school very often (however I know very, very few really well lol).

I think the best part of your post was the part about thinking by 'default.' I agree fully, this is where a massive quantity of sales come from, the parents (who today seem to just take no interest in what their kids are actually doing, and just get the thing that seems the best idea from the bare surface). In essence the parents will just go with the consumer flow, what they hear from the staff at Wal-Mart and EB Games, and go under the order of simple television and banner advertising.

Parents are not likely patient enough to wait for the PS3 and not tolerant enough to deal with kids' whining for 4 or 5 months. They don't care which system is bought so long as their kids are quie... I mean happy.

I think the Xbox 360 will enjoy a three million to maybe even four or five million unit sale holiday period in North America (from launch to year's end).

rpgamer_2k5

07-27-2005, 03:19 AM

CurryKing1: That's a pretty large estimate because there are just so many games releasing on the PS2, PSP, Gamecube, and DS. Most parents would rather purchase a game then go for a new system. What could happen is many Xbox users purchasing the Xbox 360 but 5 million will be way too high, a more conservative figure would be roughly 3 million. Atleast 1/20 Xbox users should be going for the Xbox 360 from Nov to Dec IMO along with very small number of PS2 and GC users potentially purchasing the 360.

[Added Later]
I will admit that the Xbox is recieving alot of hype within the US and Canada because of Microsoft. Since Bill Gates is the richest man in the world, many conclude that the Xbox will be like Bill Gates, rich in features and whatnot. This is probably a reason why Sony and Nintendo will be facing stiff competition from MS in the next-gen.

07-27-2005, 09:30 AM

Sons and daughters of Hellgan. we have been distracted from our main cause and have been lost in this 'financial' talk of two Earthly entities. it is our goal to take control. that includes the entire human planets and rule again! *chanting*

(spells; get back to topic guys)

09-07-2005, 05:57 PM

everything Killzone PS3 here, please.

Domination

09-07-2005, 09:42 PM

by: thedynamite007

I saw this in the other forum. Please comment on this one here is the link http://forums.gamespot.com/gamespot...23332480&page=0 (http://forums.gamespot.com/gamespot/show_messages.php?board=314159282&topic=23332480&page=0)

this is what is written:

sent in an email to Guerrila on August 18th and finally got a response. My email said

My email wrote:

Guerilla Games,

I am emailing you guys to ask you some questions about your upcoming Playstation 3 sequal to Killzone. You showed a video at E3, which was later rumored to be a CGI demo running at 5 FPS sped up, which was extremely impressive. Was the video run at E3 in real time, or are the rumors true? My second question regards to your current progress on the game. In the months since E3, work must have been done on the game. How is it running? Is it going to be as graphically impressive as the demo?

Thank you for your time,

Paul

I would have never posted this topic in the forums, if it weren't for the interesting email I received back from Guerilla games.

Arjan Brussee, Development Director of Guerilla Games wrote:

Paul,

Thank you for you email. I am glad to see that you are looking into the matter at hand rather than making false judgements. The video shown at E3 was not in real time. It was a CGI demo sped up from 5 FPS as you said. The development team did this because we could not make a demo of that calibur at 30-60 FPS on the hardware we had at the time. Now however, the team is working the game on PS3 alpha kits, and it is looking just as impressive as the demo, at 30 FPS. The game is still in the very early stages of development, and I expect that it will release with visuals that are just as impressive as those in the E3 demo. We are planning on showing in game footage before too long, and we can't wait to see the public's reaction to it.

Arjan Brussee

If this is true this made me sad, very mad and lost confidence on the integrity of Guerillia. Its dissapointing in a sense that we thought the E3 demo was from the ingame engine itself.They said that its ingame engine. But here it is CGI. Whats happening? Iam confuse. But then why did in the interview to the developer in the past he was so proud and beam proudly of what he done? Is he just being arrogant? Is he taking credit on the way they cheated us?

But come to think of it Sony reps solidly states that it is ingame and base on specs. And they said its only scratching the surfaces And 9 months for a CGI? CGI can be made more faster. Its only 2 minutes even toystory and Shrek there scenes where made in a week for a 3 minute scene. Still a big black hole. But then again there is still glimmer of hope since they said that they are starting to make the game and it looks the same in early stages. We have to wait and I hope in TGS they will enlighten us on some matters.

Maybe I'm missing your point, but that sounds like great news to me. Check out this part:

"Now however, the team is working the game on PS3 alpha kits, and it is looking just as impressive as the demo, at 30 FPS. The game is still in the very early stages of development, and I expect that it will release with visuals that are just as impressive as those in the E3 demo. We are planning on showing in game footage before too long, and we can't wait to see the public's reaction to it."

If the email is true, that means they are likely to reach or even exceed what we saw at E3.

Crossbar

09-07-2005, 10:09 PM

Maybe I'm missing your point, but that sounds like great news to me. Check out this part:

"Now however, the team is working the game on PS3 alpha kits, and it is looking just as impressive as the demo, at 30 FPS. The game is still in the very early stages of development, and I expect that it will release with visuals that are just as impressive as those in the E3 demo. We are planning on showing in game footage before too long, and we can't wait to see the public's reaction to it."

If the email is true, that means they are likely to reach or even exceed what we saw at E3.

I totally agree. 30 fps on alpha kits, that is a cell at 2.4 GHz and no RSX yet, that is at least 25 % from the final hardware performance. They probably have a lot of optimisation left to do as well. Can't wait for their new video.

Theo

09-08-2005, 11:28 AM

Sounds good to me too!!

If it indeed looks just as good as the E3 demo and it's running at 30 fps in real time powered "only" by a cell at 2.4 GHz like mentioned above, it should be very likely that the final product will look better than the E3 demo...Time will tell.

09-08-2005, 06:25 PM

GTShotoKen

09-08-2005, 09:50 PM

Sony wants to make the most of what they have got. they got this unbelieveably looking game that many people are doubting it is in-game at all. if Killzone makes a presence at TGS, you know that they will make it into a shock comparible to MGS2 at E3 200.

imagine this scenario for instance: they show more unbelieveabel footage. then someone steps up, hold a wireless controller, then starts playing it. Sony then hands out extra boxers for everyone.

-
8 days to E3's killer!

With the sheer graphical intensity of the Killzone trailer,and the fact that the RSX isn't in the dev kits, brings me to believe that Guerilla will need the final dev kit before they can truly start wowing people.

09-09-2005, 02:47 AM

if games won't surprise the public, they may have playables behind closed doors.

-
7 Days to MGS4!

Red_Eyes

09-10-2005, 07:12 AM

If this is true this made me sad, very mad and lost confidence on the integrity of Guerillia. Its dissapointing in a sense that we thought the E3 demo was from the ingame engine itself.They said that its ingame engine. But here it is CGI. Whats happening? Iam confuse. But then why did in the interview to the developer in the past he was so proud and beam proudly of what he done? Is he just being arrogant? Is he taking credit on the way they cheated us?

But come to think of it Sony reps solidly states that it is ingame and base on specs. And they said its only scratching the surfaces And 9 months for a CGI? CGI can be made more faster. Its only 2 minutes even toystory and Shrek there scenes where made in a week for a 3 minute scene. Still a big black hole. But then again there is still glimmer of hope since they said that they are starting to make the game and it looks the same in early stages. We have to wait and I hope in TGS they will enlighten us on some matters.

No, it wasn't 9 months just for a CGI, it's 9 months for building an engine, making the models, making the stages, making the textures, making scripts, and everything that a game needs. It's not like it's a movie. It is a game. And the engine needs to be built. Sure, a min in Shek can be rendered in a week. And in killzone, it can be render in several hours/days. But the 9 months is the time it took to built the engine and everything, not the time it took to render a 2 minute trailer.

Gounmckuber

09-10-2005, 10:18 AM

A lot of people seem to think that killzone isnt possible because of the animation. They say "There is no repeated animation in the whole video" but actually there are some animations that repeat in the video. For instance when the character goes up the steps youll notice a guy to the left of him who has his back against the wall and peeks out to shoot. Notice that later on in the video(when the plane shoots some missiles) that there are two guys(they are on the left side of the screen) doing the same animation. They even peek out to shoot in the same manner. There may be more repeated animation routines but i dont have the video anymore. Maybe ill download it again to check

09-10-2005, 03:50 PM

Domination

09-10-2005, 06:53 PM

After witnessing what the PS2 did for Killzone 1, I think people are going to be picking their jaws up in astonishment for the next installment.

Black Dragon37

09-10-2005, 07:17 PM

I'm not much of a Killzone fan, but I think I will be, come next year... :DI'm not even an FPS fans, let alone a Killzone fan! The only FPS I really liked was Goldeneye on the N64.

This game may just get me back into the FPS scene... :twirl:

julps31

09-10-2005, 08:36 PM

Its good to know that the guys at Gorrilla games are confident that the games looking as good as the E3 trailer at 30 FPS. Maybe we'll get some info at TGS!!! baby lol. 6 days. Less than a week. I can't wait.

Black Dragon37

09-10-2005, 09:44 PM

At TGS? Isn't that for Japanese games?

Gounmckuber

09-11-2005, 06:49 AM

I think the 'real or not' argument has been done to death. just go packa few pages and you can relive all the glory. the only thing both schools of thought can do now is wait for TGS and furthur details. everything was said and every point proven and countered. now it is time to sit it out and see who was right and who was full of ...unright?

-
6 days to D-day!
I know Z but I was just pointing out something that everyone seemed to ignore. Some of the animation isnt as smooth as people make out to be in my opinion. So........lets forget about all that and wait for the naysayers to eat crow when this game is released :bigpimp: I just cant wait for tuesday to come and tgs :rockon:

09-11-2005, 02:29 PM

"will you have that crow boiled or grilled?" -naysayers being asked after TGS

Crossbar

09-20-2005, 08:54 PM

The guerilla letter was a fake. Nice discussion though :aim;-]: .
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60856

Nerve-Damage

11-06-2005, 09:43 AM

Link: History (http://www.next-gen-deals.com/playstation-3.html)
Though, Killzone 3's footage has been argued greatly whether or not it is real; Guerrilla Games has stated that it was running of the PlayStation 3 hardware at 5 frames-per-second, and then sped up to 60FPS. Many supporters state that since it was an early in development game, that the game will look as good as it did, due to the engine becoming more advanced during the development of the game.

Alpha PS3 Kit (Killzone 3 @ 5fps):
* CPU: Cell @ 2.4GHz
* GPU: Dual 6800 Ultra's Cards
* Bus: 16x PCI-EX bus Interface
* System Ram: 256MB XDR
* Graphic Ram: 256MB GDDR3 @700MHz
* Underpowered: 25-30%

PS3/Final Dev-Kit Specs (Killzone 3 @ 60fps):
* CPU: Cell @ 3.2GHz
* GPU: RSX @ 550MHz
* Bus: FlexI/O bus interface
* System Ram: 256MB XDR PS3 (512MB XDR Final Dev-Kit)
* Graphic Ram: 256MB GDDR3

Honestly, I just don’t see it guys! The jump from 5fps to 60fps seems difficult with the supposed PS3 specs. Sony claims the PS3 will be able to handle all what was presented in the Killzone 3 video and then some. Yes, I know the dev-kit running Killzone 3 was around 25-30% underpowered, compared to the final kit. I’m not dismissing Sony commitment to it (Hardware), It’s just the 25-30% difference doesn’t seem great enough to accomplish the final task, without downgrading Killzone “WOW” factor. Maybe if the Dev-Kit were around 50-60% underpowered and running killzone 3 at 5fps, I wouldn’t have any problems believing it.

Please don’t bring up MGS4 as an example…yes it’s a great game!! But MGS4 had far-less presented (soldiers, effects, action, ECT…) going on compared to the Killzone 3 footage. And please remember “I’M TALKING ABOUT PERFORMANCE (FPS) AND NOT GRAPHIC CAPABILITIES”. I believe the PS3 will be able to produce all the Killzone 3 graphics and effects. It’s the performance that’s nagging at me with the current PS3 specs.

IMO:
I believe there’s more to the PS3 GPU (RSX) and memory configuration, than what Sony is letting on (letting us to believe).

Your thoughts guys?

CrumCon

11-06-2005, 09:49 AM

Well it not depends only on specs of the kit, but also how they are programmed, Guerilla are still learning how to optimize their engines for the hadrware.

Even if they had used the final SDK, Killzone will still run at 5fps if they dont know how to work with the hardware.

by the way.. where did find this? when did sony announce the increasement of ps3's system RAM, from 256mb XDR to 512mb XDR?

System Ram: 256MB XDR PS3 (512MB XDR Final Dev-Kit)

Voidler

11-06-2005, 09:52 AM

It was just an engine, fully unoptimized and the game as it was so unoptimized was getting low framerates so they locked it at 5FPS for the demo and then sped it up to 60FPS.It's not hard to believe on better hardware, with the engine being more polished that it'll get to 30 or 60FPS.

Nerve-Damage

11-06-2005, 09:53 AM

@ CrumCon: That 512MB XDR is for the final PS3 Dev-Kit...however you never know :-)

Danji

11-06-2005, 10:52 AM

Don't forget to take into account how much the low bandwidth on the first dev kit screwed over the engine.

I'm sure that they will be able to deliver, when is more of the issue.

Applefiend

11-06-2005, 12:21 PM

Well let's put it this way, I'd imagine it was just running on the PPE and none of the SPEs. They'll be using a tenth of the chip, so getting it up to 30 fps... Is very very doable.

lip2lip

11-06-2005, 04:11 PM

Article specifically states low framerate was an engine issue, not because of alpha kits. Also, how do you not know the bottle neck was the 2 gigabytes per second front side bus? increasing fsb to 35 gbps may alleviate this completely. Also, without trying to guess their algorythm proceedures, it would be silly to try to guess what their cyclic use deriviation is. The actual programmer do know this, and they clearly say it is possible to increase fps, there is no reason to doubt this.

Infernal

11-06-2005, 04:17 PM

Well lets see. The demo probably only used the 2.4ghz PPU and no SPE's. The jump from 2.4-3.2ghz is 25%. Now the 2 6800gts going to the g70 alone is supposedly over 2 times the power. Now going from the g70 to the RSX lets say another 50%. And lets not forget that the bandwith is near 10% of the final bandwith, that will make a massive difference.

luca29

11-06-2005, 05:31 PM

But it was not clearly that killzone it was a fmv? here in Italy they take in turn sony for this reason accusing it to have taken in turn :(

Effulgence

11-06-2005, 05:39 PM

Well 5fps is halfway to the framerate in killzone 1 :D

In all seriousness though, this sounds like one of those Sony plots where they host a convention 2 weeks later and have the game playable.

Nerve-Damage

11-06-2005, 05:51 PM

But it was not clearly that killzone it was a fmv? here in Italy they take in turn sony for this reason accusing it to have taken in turn :(

Killzone 3 was rendered in real-time (with in game assets). However it was re-rendered (Digitialy Recorded) or sped-up to make it fluid looking (60fps).

Well 5fps is halfway to the framerate in killzone 1 :D

LOL....

VG Aficionado

11-06-2005, 06:40 PM

CrumCon

11-06-2005, 07:01 PM

lip2lip

11-06-2005, 07:13 PM

final dev kits shipped in one to two months?

Nerve-Damage

11-06-2005, 07:21 PM

final dev kits shipped in one to two months?

PS3 Reference Tool = Mid December 2005

Notice how Sony never states "final" PS3 Dev-kit, but rather “reference”. :-X

casualkiss

11-06-2005, 07:27 PM

Theo

11-06-2005, 07:29 PM

lol it doesnt make sense.. you cannot compare numbers like that.

Specs doesnt mean anything if guerilla doesnt know how to work with ps3 hadrware.. Even if they had the final SDK, Killzone would still run at low frames if they dont how how to jack it off

That is true, but the point is that it can be done, comparing the alpha kits to the possible and likely final ps3 specs, that Infernal stated above. It is not exactly a matter of, if they can't use the final dev kit(s) properly. In that way those numbers are quite comparable in this subject.

Goki

11-06-2005, 07:30 PM

Does anyone have a clue when sony will show us the final RSX specs! I have a feeling threads like these will cease once sony shows us all the specs!!

On a side note, how would a game like say killzone benefit from Ram increase from 255 XDR to 512 ?? They wouldn be able to up the framerate alone with ram increse would they??

Nerve-Damage

11-06-2005, 07:31 PM

Nerve-Damage

11-06-2005, 07:35 PM

I have a feeling threads like these will cease once sony shows us all the specs!!

Pretty much!!

On a side note, how would a game like say killzone benefit from Ram increase from 255 XDR to 512 ?? They wouldn be able to up the framerate alone with ram increse would they??

Like many developers will tell you, you could never have enough ram. Back to your question, more texture and data storage will benefit from a greater increase in ram.

rpgamer_2k5

11-06-2005, 08:27 PM

Call of Duty 2 for 360 cost $14 million and it doesn't compare to killzone. What do you think killzone will cost? Doesn't it seem like GG is looking at a platinum? If they achieve such numbers, it's will cover even the CoD2 dev't costs. I doubt that GG will lie to their potential customers; we're probably going see similar quality, if not better for the PS3. Those that continue to doubt are up for a big suprise, and I have a feeling that Killzone 3 will sell very nicely too. The first, had much potential but was limited by the PS2.

lip2lip

11-06-2005, 09:18 PM

PS3 Reference Tool = Mid December 2005

Notice how Sony never states "final" PS3 Dev-kit, but rather “reference”. :-X

any later and they will not have many 3rd party games for spring Japan release. If it comes out after Revolution in Japan, they may as well wait for 65nm process.

Ps sounds like rev is coming out in the summer in n.a. I was so hoping to get both consoles. I sure will be happy to get rev 'early'

Crossbar

11-06-2005, 09:18 PM

I think we are missing the main point here.

I am willing to believe that the trailer is possible in actual gameplay, but creating a 5-10 hour game with that level of detail would cost a fortune!!!

There was so much wondeful character reaction and art assets being used for mere seconds before being blown appart beautifully... is it affordible?

Call of Duty 2 for 360 cost $14 million and it doesn't compare to killzone. What do you think killzone will cost?
Valid question. The level of detail is impressive, it took them 6 months to create the demo sequence according to Jan-Bart Van Beek, Game Director of the PS3 Killzone at Guerrilla Games. http://www.sonygamers.com/r/index.php/mod/article/id/371

I you extrapolate that to 5-10 hours gameplay, it will take them quite a few years to finish the game and it will cost a fortune. Of course that is unreasonable, but if Sony is willing to make Killzone a show case for PS3 the market department of Sony could probably offer some money to make this game extraordinary. If the game is a bestseller they will likely have their money back as well.

CrumCon

11-06-2005, 09:22 PM

saxdawg00

11-06-2005, 09:35 PM

Well, most have come to the conclusion that the PS3 Killzone is the third in a series and if that is true, they (GG) will have alot of time for researching the in's and out's of the PS3 hardware and developing the Killzone engine accordingly while part 2 makes its run in stores.

Crossbar

11-06-2005, 10:15 PM

6 motnhs.. thats including exploring the PS3 hadrware.
PS3 is a new hadrware, so dont expect them to make miracle like Killzone within 2-3 motnhs.. especially with the alhpa-beta kit.

so they had to explore it first

once their engine are ready and Go.. within 1 year its done i think.
Actually, if you read the interview, you will see they started the development before they had cell development kits. They used PC:s to mimic the PS3 hardware. It wouldn't surprise me if the 5 fps figure comes from the PC environment, maybe they didn't bother to port the demo to alpha kits if the alpha kits were reserved for "cell explorers".

Carn

11-06-2005, 10:23 PM

Valid question. The level of detail is impressive, it took them 6 months to create the demo sequence according to Jan-Bart Van Beek, Game Director of the PS3 Killzone at Guerrilla Games. http://www.sonygamers.com/r/index.php/mod/article/id/371

I you extrapolate that to 5-10 hours gameplay, it will take them quite a few years to finish the game and it will cost a fortune. Of course that is unreasonable, but if Sony is willing to make Killzone a show case for PS3 the market department of Sony could probably offer some money to make this game extraordinary. If the game is a bestseller they will likely have their money back as well.

I believe it took Team Kojima a few months to get a standard "testscreen" on a monitor when they started Ps2 development for MGS2.. The creation of actual content is "no biggie", you just need the manhours. You oftenly see that a developer hires x-amount of extra people just for content. It wouldnt suprise me if only a handfull people of Guerilla were involved with making that demo.

Domination

11-06-2005, 10:37 PM

GTShotoKen

11-07-2005, 01:19 AM

I feel some of you are so underestimating the PS3. Kojima said it himself, he was not looking to make a graphically intense MG game. He his motive/goal was to focus on things we could not see rather than those we can, whether or living breathing environments for instance, to basically sum it up. His words were, with the PS3, he could, if he wanted to, build an incredibly realistic looking world, but he wanted to keep Snake and other characters within the game more to the roots in a visual sense and focus on things we hadn't seen before.

Killzone has already exceeded what I thought the PS3 would be able to do, but I feel this is only the begining. I say that because, if they are pulling this stuff off now without the final hardware, then there is a definite possibility that you are going to see something much more impressive once developers wrap their heads around it's hardware.

I completely agree.

What most surprises me is that devs are just throwing polygons and game code at the PS3 and it's still performing better than they ever had hoped. They haven't even gotten much of a grasp around what they can do with the PS3 and they are making games look this good.

This makes me think...would we really need a PS4 if PS3 games will look as good as the Killzone demo, and even better?

Effulgence

11-07-2005, 01:21 AM

I completely agree.

What most surprises me is that devs are just throwing polygons and game code at the PS3 and it's still performing better than they ever had hoped. They haven't even gotten much of a grasp around what they can do with the PS3 and they are making games look this good.

This makes me think...would we really need a PS4 if PS3 games will look as good as the Killzone demo, and even better?

Not until there are virtual reality 3d headset tv like devices. (yes, virtual boy but better)

casualkiss

11-07-2005, 02:00 AM

Not until there are virtual reality 3d headset tv like devices. (yes, virtual boy but better)

So far VR has a nasty habit of making people VERY nascious... but if they can work that out it would be tres cool!

Nodieza

11-07-2005, 04:06 AM

So far VR has a nasty habit of making people VERY nascious... but if they can work that out it would be tres cool!

Maybe that's the government's true plan, get us all addicted to games (I am...) and then on the dawn of the first day of 2010 they shall release "Teh New Virtua Boy".... for free! and we will all try it... and be nascious!!!..... Mwa ha ha ha.... that's all I have... heh, it would be cool though. VR... hmm MGS..

11-07-2005, 06:22 AM

Gaming Guru
This makes me think...would we really need a PS4 if PS3 games will look as good as the Killzone demo, and even better?
the correct question is will a PS4 be needed/have a worthy difference than PS3 in a mere 5 years? if PS3 is all that it seems to be, a new PS4 may not be necessary in 6 years (the traditional PS gen cycle). it may take 2 or 3 more years to appear. but if it takes that long, won't that lure new and current competitors into the market? if they have capable systems by then, Sony will need to re-istablish its lead again (presuming PS3 leads). and the cycle keeps on going.

another thing, there are very good points raised by everyone. I would like to reiterate that even the systems GG worked on for the initial demo weren't fully utilized. I think their aim at this particualr time is to get a graphical shock and not to fully exploite and test the system at hand. now that SDKs are roling out, they can focus more on the technical aspects and build of the game.

PS: mark my words; even if Killzone finally releases with better graphics than the demo, you will still hear sore and blind gamers still say it isn't as good as the demo. heck, I am still seeing people say the GT and Tekken game demos for PS2 before it launched are still not reached. someone even said Tekken 3 (on the PSOne, mind you) leeks better than Tekken Tag Tournament (on PS2, mind you again)! and he said it with no shame. of course he got scrutinized, but the example still stands.

finally, no matter what anyone says, the truth about Killzone, MotorStorm and F1 will only be revieled when they launch on PS3- or of course, if playable demos prove the point before launching. those three games are nore amazing than each other!

chrismt

11-07-2005, 06:13 PM

A PS4 will likely be needed before another 10 years because of two factors: Microsoft likely launching a new console in another four years, and what Z said about luring competitors into the market. Who knows, maybe someone can out of the blue outSony Sony:) But I do know Killzone makes me salivate, and again if this is achievable within a year I can only imagine how good games could be in another couple of years.

On another note I'm wondering about the game noone talks about anymore, Dark Sector. It might end up being the MGS2 of the PS3.

11-07-2005, 09:50 PM

but will it be exclusive? many games are under the radar like Dark Sector, Metronome, and others.

Chris Metal

11-07-2005, 11:30 PM

GTShotoKen

11-07-2005, 11:53 PM

I don't know how long exactly, but it doesn't look like we'll get much more information about Killzone Next gen or other projects from Guerrilla for sometime yet. I spoke to Alastair Burns from Guerrilla recently, and currently they're not ready to release any information on any future projects or the PS3 yet. They have their plans and they're sticking by them.

Thankfully though he's doing a Q&A for me for the website on the current gen Killzone and Guerrilla. Just waiting for it to get back to me. Should be interesting.

Should be.

I talk with several of the devs all the time in the Killzone forums on the Playstation website.

We are always pestering them about the next iterations of Killzone and the PS3 demo. They don't let much of anything out, but they let some things slip when we give them our ideas for futures titles like; sort of like,"Hey this so and so feature would be great in the next killzone," and they will be like, "Yeah we are already thinking about those features."

They won't let anything slip out about the PS3 hardware though. They just say cell is powerful and they don't know anything about the RSX yet (which is most likely true).

As a side note, I asked one of the devs awhile back about the PSM interview where one of the spokes persons for Guerilla games said that the tech demo was created with ingame assests and was spead up from 5fps to 30fps. Surpisingly, she wouldn't admit to the quote and said that Guerilla hasn't officially said anything.

I should ask the devs if the next eye-toy will be incorporated into one of their next-gen titles.

:Edit: I had previously asked the devs on their thoughts on AI based on floating-point ops and they were pretty mum about the subject. I don't think they have ventured into that particular area yet.

Chris Metal

11-08-2005, 12:32 AM

Yeah we'll see what the Alastair says in this Q&A, I've suggested a 3 part Q&A 1st being about the PS2, Killzone 1 and Guerrilla. 2nd about PS3 tech after its been launched say in Japan, It would be interesting to get their view and lastly on The PS3 title supposedly in development. Whether he'll agree on this is another matter.

I know they let things slip sometimes, but I don't take too many answers seriously when devs says "yeah, we've been thinking about that". I think a Q&A is a good way to go about things, and get direct and factual answers and you never know, he may let a few clues slip in he answers about what'll appear. He would like to discuss about the PS3 SDK they're using and the PS3Killzone, but logical guess is Sony asking them to keep things under raps.

He's got a schedule and he intends to keep to it. They've learnt from a few mistakes in the past with Killzone. Although he finds it a little boring that he can't divuldge/discuss any info to us on anything future project or tech wise at this time. At least KNG has been added to his favourites list. I'm hoping to get KNG onto the Guerrilla-games company website like KillzoneGame had been. I want to know about Killzone PS3 as much as anyone but the devs really shouldn't be letting things slip no matter how nice they are lol

GTShotoKen

11-08-2005, 03:35 AM

Yeah I understand, but I always thought the publishers are the one's who want the devs to keep game info under-wraps.

Most devs say the same things,"I really would like to tell everyone what we're doing, but the higher ups would kill me."

I'm not really in much of a hurry to know about Killzone PS3.

I really just want to know if the finalized game will look that good and run at a smooth framerate...and any new AI skeems they are cooking up?

:Edit: Hey Chris Metal, have you played any of the devs, such as Ferret, in Killzone online multiplayer? I always wanted to know how good they were.

Shadow Voa

11-08-2005, 03:44 AM

I think it looks pretty good for a game thats only been shown so far in pre-rendered form. I hope it looks good in real time since this game had a lame story (which I beat) but a better exp in multiplayer then Halo and Halo 2 put together imo.

Nodieza

11-08-2005, 05:40 AM

The more I look back at it the more I believe it is possible (for all you doubters). It in matter of fact seems like it will be topped sometime in the ps3 lifespan. After seeing Mgs4 trailer and knowing that was on an alpha this doesn't seem like that big of a problem. But that's just my opinion. Some of those gamplay elements might be slightly difficult to pull off but overall it's most certainly possible.... all up to devs.

Chris Metal

11-08-2005, 12:10 PM

Hey Chris Metal, have you played any of the devs, such as Ferret, in Killzone online multiplayer? I always wanted to know how good they were.

No unfortunately. But I want to, would be interesting, Ferret and Viper seem to spend most of their time at the american forums though so I don't know If they spend their time monitoring the american online server. I think they're all pretty busy atm to be playing online with us lot in eu. heh

I'm not really in much of a hurry to know about Killzone PS3.

I really just want to know if the finalized game will look that good and run at a smooth framerate...and any new AI skeems they are cooking up?

Yeah I'm having to be very patient with Killzone 2/PS3 or whatever, it's a pain in the a** to get any information to fill the site with. But I'm sort of more interested to see how developing for the PS3 compares to PS2 in terms of ease of development, Cell, graphics capabilities, Blu-ray and all the usual stuff we all wanna know. Thats why I would like him to agree to the Q&A about the PS3 dev kit later on after they get the final SDK so they can answer these questions properly.

O.D.S

11-08-2005, 04:34 PM

I found some artists impression artworks for Killzone PS3 which i havent seen till now. Ive posted it up incase somebody else hasnt seen it aswell.

http://img121.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_ab7_test.jpg (http://img121.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=ab7_test.jpg)http://img105.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_e76_test_1.jpg (http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=e76_test_1.jpg)http://img41.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_53e_test_2.jpg (http://img41.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=53e_test_2.jpg)http://img109.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_332_test_3.jpg (http://img109.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=332_test_3.jpg)http://img7.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_6b8_test_4.jpg (http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=6b8_test_4.jpg)
http://img41.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_d22_test_5.jpg (http://img41.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=d22_test_5.jpg)http://img105.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_be6_test_6.jpg (http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=be6_test_6.jpg)http://img15.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_c3e_test_7.jpg (http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=c3e_test_7.jpg)http://img22.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_16f_test_8.jpg (http://img22.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=16f_test_8.jpg)

Chris Metal

11-08-2005, 11:37 PM

I had to take those off of KNG out of respect for the artist and Guerrilla. Xavier Marquis(artist) was quite embarressed about the whole affair. He made a rather big mistake in publishing these on the web and regrets it I believe.

Anyway, they're awesome concept artworks all the same.;)

raVen

11-09-2005, 03:41 AM

theres actaully much more than those u have... should i try to look for them?

... I think i will:laugh:

O.D.S

11-09-2005, 04:52 AM

yeah i know theres much more of them, but i didnt want to post too many since i had a feeling people have seen them.

But still if you want put them up!

11-09-2005, 09:45 PM

there are also some with PSP written in them. but keep in mind that these could very well be mere concepts and sketches that were used for the first game. some maybe re-thought for the sequal, of course, but nothing is certain. that also doesn't indicate a PSP version in the works. many concepts are made and most are scrapped in making of a game. just look at the extra's of some games where they show concepts like Onimosha and God of War. you would see the diofferent possibilites that were concidered. also, they maybe used for promotion like wallpapers, mag/site hype, etc.

unless something is official, I wouldn't take some drawings as seriousley.

GTShotoKen

11-09-2005, 09:47 PM

That impressive artwork gave us all some delightful things to thing about.

I wonder how much of those concepts will actually be implemented in the game.

Nodieza

11-10-2005, 05:09 AM

Sweet concepts I must agree, all art is apreciated, anyone here gotz some skizites on photoshop?.... Killzone how sweet you are.... why can't you be here when I need you???? Why???? I loved you at "Kill" killzone... please come back to me.... please..... I'll stop... peace!

11-10-2005, 06:29 AM

if gian robots (huge mobile tanks will do) appear in the game I will dance the Hula Hula backwords at midnight under a full moon!

GTShotoKen

11-10-2005, 11:06 PM

if gian robots (huge mobile tanks will do) appear in the game I will dance the Hula Hula backwords at midnight under a full moon!

And I will do it too....again. http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/050.gif

Nerve-Damage

11-19-2005, 04:54 AM

It's a real partial interview!! (http://levade.homeip.net/addicted/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=23&mode=&order=0&thold=0)

The answere to the ultimate question, is Killzone 2 prerenderd? And some gaming insight from Motherh. Killzone is a very great game, even for a shooter, the art style is amazing the gameplay is good. The production quality is off the chart. A devolper of a the Halo Killer tells all. -Editor Rambling-

Grandmas's special secret sauce. The secret is sawdust and tobasco. We have a great visiual design department and a very strong art department with strong views. Every corner and texture has to be perfect. We used streaming technology to get a little more juice out of the old girl (PS2). Sometimes we managed it sometimes we failed. -Developer Rambling-

What inspired the story of this game?

A drunken night in the red-light district.

This is LONG before my time. Not a clue.

In what ways do you think graphics influence gameplay?

As much as gameplay imitates art. Graphics are important, but gameplay is king. If your game looks great, but plays like a wet dog then you have failed. A good game does not NEED great graphics, but it helps.

Which of the charcters do you relate to the most?

Personally? Pvt Billinghurst. He is the glue that keeps the whole story together. He will emerge from the Killzone universe as the true hero. Expect a film-trilogy based solely around him.

In the presentation of the story has many ways of setting the mood and speed of the game, what do you think the most important element suport the mood of the story?

Good lighting and lots of f-words. Oh and lots of explosions.

What are some of the main differences between devolping for the Playstation 2 and devolping for the Playstation 3? Is it as hard as people say?

PS3 has a lot more flashing green lights. It is quite unnerving. That and it is powerful enough to kill a man from 200 yards using thought alone.

Was Killzone 2 Pre Render? Could you move the camera around in real time?

Of course not. That is silly talk.

Do you think in someway shooters are lacking depth? What are some ways you would add more depth without throwing more enimies at the problem?

The storylines are usually too contrived and poorly thought out or too long and complicated. We need to find a suitable balance which involves the player a lot more with the characters and the situations.

Do you think online is improtant? Do you think story mode is more important the online?

If a game is not online it is a huge downside to 'any' game these days. There is a strange mentality these days were a game without online capability is immediatly frowned upon. Developers seem to include Online as an afterthought and because of marketing pressure or because they feel they 'have to'. Even on the PC.

delta110

11-19-2005, 05:35 AM

It was posted by one of the killzone devs at playstation.com.

i can't post the link to it unfortunatly though cause of the site restrictions.

Nerve-Damage

11-19-2005, 05:50 AM

It was posted by one of the killzone devs at playstation.com

Thanks for the info!! :)

Viper

11-19-2005, 05:52 AM

You have 12 posts, now you can.

delta110

11-19-2005, 05:57 AM

Unfortunatly it still wont let me. but it's in the killzone section of the forum and the name of the thread is "Ask the dev team..." it's on page 11.

Viper

11-19-2005, 06:00 AM

Must be set higher than 10, sorry.

Loc

11-19-2005, 06:30 AM

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone&message.id=66993&page=9

Theres page 9. Never knew that an actual Dev would be posting in the zoo that is the US Playstation forums... I'll chip in 5$ to get him to come here.

axia777

11-19-2005, 06:32 AM

Loc

11-19-2005, 06:37 AM

Go read the entire thread. There is incredibly information in there.

axia777

11-19-2005, 06:40 AM

Go read the entire thread. There is incredibly information in there.

I am I am!! SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!

xbdestroya

11-19-2005, 06:44 AM

Well, I'm too lazy to go read through all that madness so whoever's keeping up with it be sure to post the relevent summary points or choice quotes back here. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/wink4.gif

Good find btw Nerve!

Loc

11-19-2005, 06:46 AM

Vehicles
have you played this upcoming killzone yourself (referring to development team)

Of course I have. I have to put on my QA manager hat very often.

might some vehicles of the previous killzone be featured in the next one?

ehm... what vehicles? The heavy tanks, jetbikes etc? Them and many more.

why dont the ISA soldiers wear helmets?

Visual design decision, makes them look tougher. I answered this question a while ago with quotes form the Lead Artist and Lead visual designer.

and is it possible that the helghast masks will be of some advantage towards the ISA?

As in, The HGH have an advantage over the ISA due to their masks? I don't think so, it is mostly for visiual styling and product recognition.

Xbox-Live Service good?
Would you guys like to see a Unified Online Service (Xbox Live) or do you want it to stay the same way it is right now?

If it helps run a tighter and more managable community then yes. If it helps create a fun atmosphere without cheaters, team-killers and people generally being twats then yes. If it speeds up the process from the moment a player switches on his console until he joins a game and starts playing then YES!
I don't know all too much about XBox Live's ideas for their next gen, but from what I hear it is going to be pretty cool (if it all works as intended), but I am not here to talk about rival games or consoles.

Downloadable Content
And as for downloadable content...

As long as players are not ripped off I am for having additional payable content. By ripped off I mean, giving the player a short, incomplete game and then expect them to shell out $xx for 2 or 3 add-ons until they have the "complete" experience. I think players should get the whole polished game from the start but still want more, and there is viable and decent extra content available then brilliant.

It is just slowly getting closer to the PC and the shelflife of a game can be increased a great deal with extra maps/levels/characters/weapons or whatever.
As well as that it will also help developers retain staff and stay focused. i.e. Main product is complete 75% of the team start working on the next project, the remaining 25% continue to work on the original title and continue to bring out content for it. As well as that I think the overall quality of titles will improve fundamentally if more time is allocated for a project.

And lastly, it keeps me in a job and busy for longer if we ever do downloadable content

Hint at PSP-Killzone? Game-Sharing
I agree wither motherh's idea, the thought of it being a "complete experience" to begin with and being able to pay for more options is a great idea. the only thing then though, would be people who didnt want to pay would be facing people who did, and the people who payed would have the better guns, you know? some people cant afford to just dish out money for some extra guns on a game. I like the idea, its just it could get really expensive for someone that doesn't have loads of money, that games all the time.

Well that is something where a balance has to be met. There is going to be a lot of interesting things possible on PSP and PS3 like for instance game-sharing, which could allow people without the certain map to still play on it because their buddy has the 'upgrade v2' or something. Then the buddy can think, "Hey maybe I want this upgrade too! I like the map and my buddy says the other stuff is cool too".

I have no idea what kind of stuff can be made downloadable, but there is tons of possibilities. Watch this space.

xbdestroya

11-19-2005, 06:57 AM

Thanks Lookitsloc! http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/thumb.gif

I actually ended up reading through the whole thread though. The Guerilla devs seems cool, but not too much new information actually. You've definitely picked out the best quotes. I thought the PSP and PS3 sharing was honestly the most interesting thing discussed, but then again Phil Harrison has already mentioned this exact thing. Still though I get the feeling that when the PS3 launches, it's going to make the PSP a cooler device as well.

axia777

11-19-2005, 07:44 AM

That was very kool man. He is still obviously vague on many issues as he should be. They are developing a game and can't tell to much for spoiling the suprise. But what he does talk about rules. I cant wait for that game on-line. Halo 3 killer anyone??? I think that the second that Microsoft starts playing Halo 3 commercials, Sony should dump a ton of commercials for KZ2 on the same channels. HAH! That will show them!!

CrumCon

11-19-2005, 10:54 AM

I see a lot of info and almost none at all at the same time. Kool ass info. though.

"Was Killzone 2 Pre Render? Could you move the camera around in real time?

Of course not. That is silly talk."

Either no, it is not prerendered, or no you cannot move the camera around. This in turn could mean, yes it is prerendered and thus he is doing a little C.Y.A. action there. His statement is very vague. That is a problem for me. I choose to and hope that he means, no, it is not prerendered. If it is truly not, then DAMN!!!! I can not wait for Killzone2!!

this info gave me a smlie bad also left me a question.

why didnt he answer the second question, about if the camre could be moved around in real life.

i guess it is not pre-rendered but pre programmed, like many MGS scenes.

they all use the in-game-engine for all the cut-scenes.

warmachine

11-19-2005, 12:07 PM

Have you ever thought about the reason, WHY they aren't allowed to tell, if the Killzone shown at E3, is possible on PS3 or not?

Maybe thats Sonys ace in the sleeve! (is that a right saying in english)

From one day to another, wham, here look at this: Killzone graphics in realtime on PS3!
Suck on this, bitch! :P

Red_Eyes

11-19-2005, 05:37 PM

Yes, Sony might just be waiting for the righ time to come out and say, "It's realtime, and here, you play it." Then turn around and take out a PS3 with Killzone playable demo.

VG Aficionado

11-19-2005, 05:50 PM

Wouldn't it be great that PS3 shipped in the US and Europe with, among other things, a Killzone PS3 demo? :)

Red_Eyes

11-19-2005, 05:53 PM

Have you received PS3 dev kits?

Do you believe the level of Geometry, AI and physics in the E3 Killzone video will be achievable on PS3 hardware?
Are you excited about what the possibilities will be on the PS3 hardware? You guys certainly have a vision for Killzone in the future which can be achieved with PS3 hardware so how far do you expect to take Killzone 3?

I'm sure as first party devs you guys are aware of the PS3 architecture/hardware, which is subject to change of course, and can't wait to get your hands dirty with it.

Yes.

Seb Downie - Lead Tester - Guerrilla Games

ARNOLD

11-19-2005, 06:44 PM

the question was, was killzone 2 prerendered?? i thought killzone2 is a ps2 game,or am i wrong? and killzone 3 was the footage shown at e3. maybe the dev was answering a question for the ps2 game even though the person asking the question really meant the e3 footage. -

GTShotoKen

11-19-2005, 07:16 PM

I read and post on the Killzone forums all the time.

Most of those quotes I believe are from motherh, a game tester working for Guerilla.

He (well I think it's a he) is pretty cool and is willing to give his own comments on his thoughts on Killzone concepts and industry talk.

I don't think he knows as much about the development of the next iterations of Killzone as he knows about the concepts the main devs want to put into the games.

Ferret, another insider, I think is one of the lead programmers for Killzone an and likes to answer questions on the board.

I'm not sure about the whole Killzone 2 thing because the devs usually say that no other Killzone has been officially announced.

Effulgence

11-19-2005, 07:27 PM

It seems kind of odd that another one would come out for PS2, when it is nearing the end of its life cycle, and they could make a brand new start on PS3. After all, it seemed like Killzone 1 was ruined by the ps2 hardware and they were really looking for something more powerful.

NeoPlayStation

11-19-2005, 07:48 PM

Was Killzone 2 Pre Render? Could you move the camera around in real time?

Of course not. That is silly talk.

Of course not what? Pre render or move the camera around in ral time?

This interview doesn't explain anything.

That is a silly answer :(

Nerve-Damage

11-19-2005, 08:40 PM

Of course not what? Pre render or move the camera around in ral time?

This interview doesn't explain anything.

That is a silly answer :(

We all know (I thought we all knew) that PS3 Killzone 2/3 was real-time assets @5FPS, and then re-rendered or digitally re-encoded to run at 60fps for the E3 presentation. The game at the time was un-optimized, running on Alpha PS3 Kits, and rushed to meet the E3 deadline.

So this pre-rendered stuff is getting old, real quick, dont you think? ;)

NeoPlayStation

11-20-2005, 12:03 AM

We all know (I thought we all knew) that PS3 Killzone 2/3 was real-time assets @5FPS, and then re-rendered or digitally re-encoded to run at 60fps for the E3 presentation. The game at the time was un-optimized, running on Alpha PS3 Kits, and rushed to meet the E3 deadline.

So this pre-rendered stuff is getting old, real quick, dont you think? ;)
No, I don't. At least until we can see a realtime/in-game demonstration with the same graphics of the E3 demo.

Effulgence

11-20-2005, 12:11 AM

We all know (I thought we all knew) that PS3 Killzone 2/3 was real-time assets @5FPS, and then re-rendered or digitally re-encoded to run at 60fps for the E3 presentation. The game at the time was un-optimized, running on Alpha PS3 Kits, and rushed to meet the E3 deadline.

So this pre-rendered stuff is getting old, real quick, dont you think? ;)

I never saw it confirmed. I saw it as a rumor on some random site.

Nameless

11-20-2005, 02:59 AM

Of course not what? Pre render or move the camera around in ral time?

This interview doesn't explain anything.

That is a silly answer :(
Here's my 2 cents on the topic of Killzone 3 realtime or not. Due to the E3 rush the trailer was their "vision" of the game and perhaps the engine can handle all the events taking place during the trailer. The development team has put their backs against the wall due to all the debate caused by this trailer. If the team does not launch a title with 90% of the visual quality of the trailer their will be an uproar against Sony due to some of the past claims during the PS2 pre-launch hype. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, because this issue has been debated on far to many forums. Trust me the PS3 will be a beast, the MGS 4 trailer proved the level of graphics shown during the Killzone trailer is possible. The only question is how long will it take for Killzone to be developed with a decent frame rate with similar action that took place during the trailer. If your planning on Killzone being a launch title your dreaming... I just hope the NPCs are as life like as the characters in the trailer and let's hope multiplayer is on the same level on lag free servers... Also, I thought the Heavenly Sword trailer was outstanding, but it did not create the same amount of dabate as Killzone hmmm.

Nerve-Damage

11-20-2005, 05:41 AM

I never saw it confirmed. I saw it as a rumor on some random site.

History: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps3)
However, many have disputed the authenticity of the Killzone 3 footage; Guerrilla Games has stated that it ran the game on PlayStation 3 prototype hardware at 5 frames-per-second, and then sped up the recording to 60FPS for the E3 presentations. Developers state that since it was an early in-development game, it will look at least as good as it did in the presentation when released, due to the engine becoming more mature during development

Effulgence

11-20-2005, 05:46 AM

Anyone can put anything they want in there though...

Nerve-Damage

11-20-2005, 06:03 AM

Anyone can put anything they want in there though...

Well I’m not going to split hairs over who said what…very pointless too do so. In my opinion PS3 can handle Killzone 3 without breaking a sweat…100% guarantee on that!!

Domination

11-20-2005, 06:04 AM

Here's my 2 cents on the topic of Killzone 3 realtime or not. Due to the E3 rush the trailer was their "vision" of the game and perhaps the engine can handle all the events taking place during the trailer. The development team has put their backs against the wall due to all the debate caused by this trailer. If the team does not launch a title with 90% of the visual quality of the trailer their will be an uproar against Sony due to some of the past claims during the PS2 pre-launch hype. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, because this issue has been debated on far to many forums. Trust me the PS3 will be a beast, the MGS 4 trailer proved the level of graphics shown during the Killzone trailer is possible. The only question is how long will it take for Killzone to be developed with a decent frame rate with similar action that took place during the trailer. If your planning on Killzone being a launch title your dreaming... I just hope the NPCs are as life like as the characters in the trailer and let's hope multiplayer is on the same level on lag free servers... Also, I thought the Heavenly Sword trailer was outstanding, but it did not create the same amount of dabate as Killzone hmmm.

I totally agree with your entire post. I, too, was thinking something very similiar, and it's what I tried to explain. It also answers the question as to why Sony is being so silent on quite a few things dispite the sales of the PSP and PS2.

When the PS2 first launched, Sony was very vocal to what they wanted to do with the PS2 - from it being a computer to an entertainment hub to it having a cyberworld. Sadly, though, most of the ideas were were either forsaken early within the console's life or never ripened to the point of existance. With the PS3, however, Sony has done nothing more but give hints and little hype. This time, it has mainly been about less talk and more proof for them this round. It's like I tried to say in the very begining: they know Microsoft is a threat to them, and they know people aren't buying their story, and it doesn't help much when Microsoft continues to throw this is their face. It is why I believe we are going to see more positives than negatives this time.

Domination

11-20-2005, 06:06 AM

Anyone can put anything they want in there though...

Umm... I have the magazine. It's PlayStation.

Effulgence

11-20-2005, 06:19 AM

Umm... I have the magazine. It's PlayStation.

Im talking about wikipedia. If youve seen it in a magazine then okay, i just dont usually trust things on non-gaming websites that anyone can write in information for if you know what i mean :P

rpgamer_2k5

11-20-2005, 02:14 PM

Was Killzone 2 Pre Render? Could you move the camera around in real time?

Of course not. That is silly talk. It's obviously in realtime; just ask youself, why would GG raise their standards? The question asked by the inteviewer is rediculous. Move the camera around? It is the like the previous "stringed-realtime" cutscene garbage that was on many forums in the past.

Effulgence

11-20-2005, 05:52 PM

I think that if you were asked 2 questions in succession, the first of which you knew was coming and you had something planned to say, you would only respond to the first question.

rpgamer_2k5

11-20-2005, 09:42 PM

I think that if you were asked 2 questions in succession, the first of which you knew was coming and you had something planned to say, you would only respond to the first question. I guess so, but the following question is just weak. Moving the camera around in realtime...what the hell?

rog27

11-21-2005, 02:14 AM

Why can't someone ask a carefully worded question for once, instead of being a moron and asking these dev guy's a string of questions to which they can respond with the most ridiculously ambiguous answers? The questioner should have worded his single question like this:

"Was the Killzone PS3 trailer presented at both the 2005 E3 and 2005 TGS events prerendered or a prescripted, realtime sequence utilizing the in-game engine of the future PS3 Killzone game?" for a finite answer such as "trailer was prerendered" or "trailer utilized PS3 in-game engine"

-or-

"Was the Killzone PS3 trailer presented at both the 2005 E3 and 2005 TGS events utilizing the future PS3 Killzone in-game engine?" for a definitive "yes" or "no" answer.

If anyone posts at the official PlayStation forum and has the chance to ask one of the Killzone dev guys one of these aforementioned questions, please do so...for everyone's sake.

Saibo

11-21-2005, 02:16 AM

Well I’m not going to split hairs over who said what…very pointless too do so. In my opinion PS3 can handle Killzone 3 without breaking a sweat…100% guarantee on that!!

want to put some money on that? :crazy:

im not so sure about Killzone and Motorstorm, if it will look 100% like the E3 footage, once the game is out. key word is 100%.

example of this would be the Gundam footage at E3, and the new one shown at TGS, they are different visually speaking, the E3 footage boost lighting that is 2 times better than the TGS footage. The E3 footages can compare to a offline renderer, were as the TGS show something different.. STILL Gundam is not finish, and the RSX is not finish, so my opinion on that game can change.

rog27

11-21-2005, 02:31 AM

I just asked boys and girls....I'll let you know if i get a straight answer from the devs...keep an eye on that thread over there, though.

Red_Eyes

11-21-2005, 07:30 AM

I totally agree with your entire post. I, too, was thinking something very similiar, and it's what I tried to explain. It also answers the question as to why Sony is being so silent on quite a few things dispite the sales of the PSP and PS2.

When the PS2 first launched, Sony was very vocal to what they wanted to do with the PS2 - from it being a computer to an entertainment hub to it having a cyberworld. Sadly, though, most of the ideas were were either forsaken early within the console's life or never ripened to the point of existance. With the PS3, however, Sony has done nothing more but give hints and little hype. This time, it has mainly been about less talk and more proof for them this round. It's like I tried to say in the very begining: they know Microsoft is a threat to them, and they know people aren't buying their story, and it doesn't help much when Microsoft continues to throw this is their face. It is why I believe we are going to see more positives than negatives this time.

Which is why Sony isn't saying anything. Even though Sony is telling the truth, without real proof, nobody will listen. That is why Sony will rather wait until Feb. when Sony has gather all the evidences it needs and then at that time, will show to the world. Show, not tell.

Red_Eyes

11-21-2005, 07:57 AM

Someone made an exmaple of Killzone running at 5 frames per second and this is what it should look like on the original early developer's kit. (56K warning):

http://media.putfile.com/killzonefps5

I want to make this clear. This doesn't prove that it's real time or it's running at 5 frames per second. All it shows is the Killzone video running at 5 frames per second base on the original information about killzone running at 5 frames per second that comes from PSM. It is just an example of how slow Killzone runs, when it's running at 5 frames per second.

Dralor

11-21-2005, 08:34 AM

Except they forgot to slow the sound down as well

L3XO

11-21-2005, 10:23 AM

damn, i thought ps3 games would be smoother than that. im definately not getting a ps3 now. im telling all my friends about this.

Illmatic

11-21-2005, 10:36 AM

damn, i thought ps3 games would be smoother than that. im definately not getting a ps3 now. im telling all my friends about this.

XD

That made me lol

:laugh:

Saibo

11-21-2005, 11:24 AM

XD

That made me lol

:laugh:

yeah that made be smile also..unless he was joking, if he is not..than he doesnt understand why its running at 5 FPS.

L3XO

11-21-2005, 11:29 AM

huh? i could only see 1 fps game in that vid, where are the other four ???

VG Aficionado

11-21-2005, 11:56 AM

Whoever made that video has no idea what 5FPS means when playing videogames whatsoever. That video has as many frames as the original ones that have been around, only that it plays around 6 times slower (or maybe 12 times slower if who encoded that assumed it was a 60FPS video when there are only 30FPS videos available), that is, each second from the original video stretches for 5 (or 10) seconds - that's not what 5FPS means.

When playing games at 5FPS, refreshing speed is really bothersome but the tempo remains the same since the hardware has to skip the frames it doesn't have time to draw - as long as the program is meant to work this way, which is the case of Killzone running on alpha kits. As a matter of fact, the only correct thing in that clip is the audio because it keeps the original tempo.

L3XO, I really hope you didn't believe that's how PS3 games will look like...

FLCL

11-21-2005, 01:32 PM

"Was Killzone 2 Pre Render? Could you move the camera around in real time?

Of course not. That is silly talk."

I would just like to clear up the rather ambiguous answer given to a poorly stated question(s) already asked

So, I will reiterate-

This question is directed at the KILLZONE dev team members:

Was the Killzone PS3 trailer presented at both the 2005 E3 and 2005 TGS events utilizing some form of the actual PS3 Killzone in-game engine?

Rog27

Wow that is a loaded question, well done. And of course not, but thats what it will look like.

Seb Downie - Lead Tester - Guerrilla Games

Rog27 - we aren't deliberately trying to be annoying with our answers, but whenever you guys ask us stuff that we aren't allowed to comment on yet - then we have to dance a little....sorry....

Dr. Ekter - I don't believe the forum admins here will bleep out the X word for us, sorry.

Ferret7
Killzone Dev Team

i think we've got an answer here!

stanDarsh

11-21-2005, 01:52 PM

I think he is referring to the black screen (no picture) with sound. I get that as well, I guess I am missing a codec or something.

Nameless

11-21-2005, 03:05 PM

VG is correct you misunderstood the concept of frames per second. If you reduce the number of frames it does not slow down the video you just lose a lot of the frames creating horrible character animation. Perhaps a definition of FPS will help clarify:
Frames per second is a measure of how much information is used to store and display motion. Each frame is a still image; displaying frames in quick succession creates the illusion of motion. The more frames per second (fps), the smoother the motion appears.
It was nice seeing the entire trailer in slow motion I saw a few things I missed watching it a full speed. ;-) Peace

Nodieza

11-21-2005, 05:47 PM

Sorry but watching it a "5fps" (slomo) has only made me further realize how much detail is in that "trailer." I agree with Namless.

Nodieza

11-21-2005, 05:49 PM

srry, messed up

Junox50

11-21-2005, 06:58 PM

damn, i thought ps3 games would be smoother than that. im definately not getting a ps3 now. im telling all my friends about this.

Are you serious?

Viper

11-21-2005, 07:00 PM

That was sarcasm fellas, I'm pretty sure of it.

L3XO

11-22-2005, 02:00 AM

lol, at least viper knows what he's talking about :P

Saibo

11-22-2005, 02:05 AM

That was sarcasm fellas, I'm pretty sure of it.

lol, still some kids arent very bright :spiny:

tazz3

11-22-2005, 02:14 AM

frist off we know that it was speeded up from 5 fps.
it was an early build of the game.
the final game will run at 60 fps.
and just because the frams are slow the music will still be fast lol

rog27

11-22-2005, 07:12 PM

:wave:

Presidential Wave for pretty much directly resolving the most debated question.

And we have a prerendered target videa after all (not too stiffling)...

Sometimes if you want to get shit done you just have to do it yourself.

redrei

11-22-2005, 09:19 PM

hmmm the whole sped up process seems a bit twitchy to me,, so the console can produce that cuality ingame but at only 5 frames a second?
Then what the hell is the whole sped up thing to 60 frames good for if the end game wont be above five? Or does it all just mean that guerrila needed some more time to get the code running at a higher frame, but chose to speed th engine up for the presentation at e3?
Explain to me please?

Nerve-Damage

11-22-2005, 09:29 PM

UM the whole sped up process seems a bit twitchy to me,, so the console can produce that cuality ingame but at only 5 frames a second?
Then what the hell is the whole sped up thing to 60 frames good for if the ende game wont be above five? Or does it all just mean that guerrila needed some more time to get the code running at a higher frame, but chose to speed th engine up for the presentation.
Explain to me please?

Factors:
* E3 presentation deadline!!
* Un-optimized code because of the E3 deadline.
* Un-optimized code using PS3 Alpha Dev-Kits (30% underpowered compared to the final kits). And the un-optimized code itself, probably isn't pushing the PS3 Alpha Kits to the max.

TEEDA

11-22-2005, 09:32 PM

we ' re approching december, the Final Devkits should come i think.

Domination

11-22-2005, 09:56 PM

Factors:
* E3 presentation deadline!!
* Un-optimized code because of the E3 deadline.
* Un-optimized code using PS3 Alpha Dev-Kits (30% underpowered compared to the final kits). And the un-optimized code itself, probably isn't pushing the PS3 Alpha Kits to the max.

I think that 30% underpowered only applies to the Cell. Seventy percent doesn't sound right at all. I think that's a rumor.

VG Aficionado

11-22-2005, 10:09 PM

I think that 30% underpowered only applies to the Cell. Seventy percent doesn't sound right at all. I think that's a rumor.Right. Remember the alpha kits used 6800 GPUs, which should be inferior to RSX (final hardware). Besides, alpha kits don't have nearly as much bandwidth as the final hardware nor the Killzone PS3 demo was using any Cell SPE (most likely). So, we can say that a very early Killzone PS3 runs at 5FPS on CELL (PPU only, no SPEs in use) at 2.4GHz, 6800 (SLI'd?) GPU and low general bandwidth.

That's assuming that the 5FPS thing is true to begin with, it could be better or worse than that.

Red_Eyes

12-11-2005, 10:43 AM

There were some new thread at the Killzone Next Gen forum talking about the realtime-ness of Killzone PS3. Some guy asked if Guerilla can/has achieve the level of graphics shown at E3, motherH (the lead test?) at Guerilla answered with this:

Trust me on this. You will be pleasently surprised.

VG Aficionado

12-11-2005, 01:21 PM

Is it just me, or does time go by extremely slowly until February 2006 surprise event? :)

kaphwan

12-11-2005, 03:48 PM

No, time does go incredibly slowly.

Nerve-Damage

12-11-2005, 04:49 PM

There were some new thread at the Killzone Next Gen forum talking about the realtime-ness of Killzone PS3. Some guy asked if Guerilla can/has achieve the level of graphics shown at E3, motherH (the lead test?) at Guerilla answered with this:\\

Trust me on this. You will be pleasently surprised.

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

Saibo

12-11-2005, 05:11 PM

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

Dude, im pretty much sold on this, if they can tap that much potentail from the PS3 for a first gen game like MotorStorm or Killzone, than you can say good bye to the XBOX 1.5. :bigpimp: :swear:

Even Phil(one of the Sony exec) said Killzone/MotorStorm is "only the tip of the iceberg" at E3, i thought he was joking at the time..now i think he was dead serious. By "tip of the iceberg" he means, thats the minium the PS3 can do, it only gets better from here on.

Bottomline, the PS3 is going to make the XBOX 1.5 look like last gen stuff(or just look 1.5!)

Handycrap101

12-11-2005, 06:50 PM

julps31

12-11-2005, 07:08 PM

I don't want to start any trouble but wasn't the E3 Killzone demo already confirmed CG (I could be wrong). I for one DO think that the game will look that good (in terms of textures, models, and just the overall level of detail) but when you play the game I don't think it will play like that. What I mean is just the overall look to it. Just how smart everything was, how they interacted with each other, how they moved, it's just seems to out of reach to having that kind of AI and level of physics. With that said, the game will have that graphical level, it just won't be as immersive.

EDIT: C'mon guys... Lets behave, stop calling the 360 the 1.5. It just makes you sound like an idiotic fanboy and it doesn't add to the discussion at all.You must be a pessimest. And x-box 360 is x-box 1.5. At least now it is. But the reason it looked so "imersive" is because it was scripted. Of course no games gonna look as good as a scripted cinema. But look at the MGS series. It didn't have to. The cinematics just added to the game with out dilluting it. If they have realistic animations for the enimies and your partners it'll look fine.

CARTIER90

12-11-2005, 07:15 PM

thinking of killzone, the bots move with a real - life fluidity, almost like they were mo -capped. In -game bots tend to have much more scripted , stilited movements, say if a character was to turn left, they would, if you watched closely almost swivel on the spot....i think this is to do with 'uncanny valley' perhaps ?
Basically, once the bots on screen move within the constraints of a scripted animation ( excuse the poor expression ) to walk , run , find cover , they will look much more like in game footage.

Of course if such 'random' behavour was shown by AI that would be great, by random i mean not moving the same way twice.....my lack of techical knowledge makes is hard to make a point on these forums sometimes ! :)

Saibo

12-11-2005, 07:19 PM

.

EDIT: C'mon guys... Lets behave, stop calling the 360 the 1.5. It just makes you sound like an idiotic fanboy and it doesn't add to the discussion at all.

dont take it personal, i have my opinion on why the 360 is IMO more of a 1.5, that has nothing to do with being a fanboy. So im going to continue to call it 1.5(regardless of what Sony and XBox fanboys say). misbehaving would be saying something like "XBOX 360/1.5 IS CRAP ON A STICK!!!!" now that is misbehaving.

like someone said, KillZone being scripted is going to look as good as it did, but in real gameplay it wont be that good...unless they implemented something other than looped walk,run, shoot cycles(wash, rinse, repeat). With the PS3 power, it might be possible. For some reason, i think this si were Kojima is headed with MGS4, no more looped animation, everything is dynamic and reacts in realtime. i.e. When a enemy looks/runs around the corner, it'll be different all the time, base on his fear level, surrounding,treat level,etc. sometimes he might jump out fast, other time he might be cautious and take it slow.

Some people say its prerendered done by a outside company, not GG. But other say its 5 fps, speed up tp 60 fps..i dont know who to believe. But i do believe Phil, "rendered to specs", so the final KillZone / MotorStorm game should look like that.

Domination

12-11-2005, 08:49 PM

Is it just me, or does time go by extremely slowly until February 2006 surprise event? :)

I'm waiting unitl after the holidays. But I agree, time does seem to stand still as the wait continues.

senas8

12-11-2005, 09:04 PM

Anyone know when in December the final specs for PS3 hardware will be released?

senas8

12-11-2005, 09:08 PM

I don't want to start any trouble but wasn't the E3 Killzone demo already confirmed CG (I could be wrong). I for one DO think that the game will look that good (in terms of textures, models, and just the overall level of detail) but when you play the game I don't think it will play like that. What I mean is just the overall look to it. Just how smart everything was, how they interacted with each other, how they moved, it's just seems to out of reach to having that kind of AI and level of physics. With that said, the game will have that graphical level, it just won't be as immersive.

EDIT: C'mon guys... Lets behave, stop calling the 360 the 1.5. It just makes you sound like an idiotic fanboy and it doesn't add to the discussion at all.
I for one have a 360 and I can assure you its an xbox 1.5 :)

GTShotoKen

12-11-2005, 09:11 PM

julps31

12-11-2005, 09:47 PM

Well, the Cell is able to process physics based animations which would bring the fluidity of animations up by an order of a magnitude.

Instead of canned animations, the Cell will be able to make all objects react based on physics calculations, so in a way...no two animations will ever be the same.Exactly. The cell is a beast of a chip. That way of physics processing is perfect for realistic animations and vital for sports games and useful to make games like Killzone more realistic.

Sklaar

12-13-2005, 11:12 PM

NAVWAS wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
raider557 wrote:
i wasnt planning on getting a psp just yet but now it looks like i have to rearrange my budget again to get one. congrats on being with sony now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Y do they have to make a game for the PSP. I dont want a PSP and they should spend more time wit more people on the KZ for the PS3 but this is just me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because every developer with half a mind will have a number of projects on the go at different stages of development. That way when one project closes down the people can go straight to work on finishing off the other project while Design starts work on the next title. That way by the time the second game is done they can move on to the third title and finish that off while work on the fourth title beings.. etc etc etc etc etc rinse and repeat.

If you have only 1 project on the go people are going to be sitting idle or have to be made redundant. This way everyone keeps busy and noone needs to be sacked. And you have a regular flow of games being completed.

Seb Downie - Lead Tester - Guerrilla Games
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone&message.id=68604&page=8

Probably this means Killzone is going to be finished (Launch title?)

Saibo

12-28-2005, 04:50 AM

Anyway, i think we all can put to rest that Killzone was even realtime(the asset maybe be reuse for the game though) but the rendering(rendered to specs) was done offline with LightWave3D. I've used many software in the past, LightWave3D is one of them. LW3D does support a form of subdivision surface(only support, hence why the models in the trailer are so smooth, the explosion are post effect and combination with LW3D hypervoxel technology. IMO the explosion would be more than doable with the this new information(post effect is one of the strong points of the RSX<-->Cell combo. Im still not sure about realtime subdivison surface in the extreme nature presented in the KillZone trailer(im not sure if they are doable in realtime, since no RSX info yet). Realtime global illumination is even more unlikely feasible in realtime(without no RSX info, this might change in the future?):

(the demo of Killzone) http://jeremy.lwidof.net/demoreel/

(break down of the shots) [http://jeremy.lwidof.net/demoreel/jeremyhardin_shotlist.html

http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9904&highlight=killzone

This is why i doubt the RSX will be a G70-G71-G72 it wouldnt be able to produce this type of offline rendering in realtime, even with the Cell help. The RSX has to be totally different architecture for it to be even possible..