Killzone and Tomfoolery

[GTShotoKen]

These images are almost indestinguishable to movie CGI.

Here:
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614722/killzone-next-gen-20050516053732311.jpg

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614722/killzone-next-gen-20050516054000193.jpg

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614722/killzone-next-gen-20050516053731358.jpg

Our prayers have been answered!!! Killzone will appear on the PS3, and it looks freakin fantastic!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Edit: Well it seems that several other people posted these pictures at the same time, but if admins want to keep this as an official next-gen killzone thread, please do.

[nemesis121]

It's looks great, lets hope it plays better than the first part, I hope sony won't promote it as there halo killer.

[Brandon]

That is...incredible. Beautiful!! 8)

[GTShotoKen]

It's looks great, lets hope it plays better than the first part, I hope sony won't promote it as there halo killer.

Well, I am pretty sure that technical limitations won't plague this next title, so I won't mind if Sony claims it as such.

[julps31]

Oh yeah I said it in the other thread but...look at those textures. So much detail...super-hi poly or normal maps.

[TidusX]

I am just praying that that is in real time, tell me its in real time please because it looks simply amazing!

[LeoJG]

can you believe it!!!! these killzone images kicks off ghost recon 3 in the ass!!!!!!!!! i cant wait to see an image of GT5 or MGS4 :lol: :lol: :lol:

[stuffedsquirrel222]

I'm not much of a Killzone fan, but I think I will be, come next year... :D

[julps31]

can you believe it!!!! these killzone images kicks off ghost recon 3 in the ass!!!!!!!!! i cant wait to see an image of GT5 or MGS4 :lol: :lol: :lol:I wouldv'e never imagined lol. *chants* PS3...PS3..PS3!!!

[KiLLA2006]

Damn, i left to my sisters house and i came back, and almost s**T myself after looking at these screens, they made me cry in a way i have never cried before... LOUDLY!!! they are beautiful.... and im sorry but i love the PS3 design, i happen to think its much better looking that the 360, not to sound like a fanboy or anything, but... spider man in real time *tear* PS3...PS3...PS3!!!!

[The_One]

The PS3 design may suck, but the graphics are absolutely GORGEOUS!!!! GORGEOUS I TELL YOU!!! It's even prettier than my sis... uh... nevermind :lol:.

[LeoJG]

ohhh man im just look at killzone video, and just cant breath, seriously, its looks incredible in action!! tekken is impresive too , there are steam coming out of the body of the fighter!!!!!!!!! im going to dieee

[Junox50]

Here's a video of Killzone 2 in action from gamespot if anyone wants to see.

Just scroll down to the bottom to find it! :D

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html?q=1

Well Z, it looks like you were right about Killzone 2. :D

[Brandon]

The Killzone video put all the other war games shown to shame...except maybe Warhawk, but there wasn't as much action going on as there was in Killzone.

[UltimaGear]

I think the Killzone demo is actual gameplay!

[Brandon]

I think the Killzone demo is actual gameplay!
I think the demo is real-time, but not real-time gameplay.

[saxdawg00]

It's looks great, lets hope it plays better than the first part, I hope sony won't promote it as there halo killer.

Well, I am pretty sure that technical limitations won't plague this next title, so I won't mind if Sony claims it as such.

Not only would I not mind but I WILL BE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TO LABEL IT AS THE HALO 3 KILLER. MS is gonna try and take the air out of the PS3 launch by launching Halo 3 at the same time? They may want to rethink that move..........By the specs alone, the console war is over before it started.

On a side note, can you imagine this game at 1080p?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Red_Eyes]

I am just praying that that is in real time, tell me its in real time please because it looks simply amazing!

it is real time. just watch the video at gametrailers.com

you can tell it's real time

[The_One]

It's looks great, lets hope it plays better than the first part, I hope sony won't promote it as there halo killer.

Well, I am pretty sure that technical limitations won't plague this next title, so I won't mind if Sony claims it as such.

Not only would I not mind but I WILL BE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TO LABEL IT AS THE HALO 3 KILLER. MS is gonna try and take the air out of the PS3 launch by launching Halo 3 at the same time? They may want to rethink that move..........By the specs alone, the console war is over before it started.

On a side note, can you imagine this game at 1080p?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? I envy those lucky bums (or rather, not bums) who have 1080p HDTV's!! Man, my friend's uncle has TWO HDTV... Looks like he's gonna enjoy PS3's panoramic view feature!

[Crazy_Elmo]

This is realtime in game footage, my Bro works at Guerilla, and this one is gonna be a hell of a lot better than the first Killzone !!

[WolfWooD]

And me that was thinking about buying the xbox360 :shock:

Well i think we can say that the king is back, whit games like these.

I love the way the grenades explode :drool:

[Xtreme Autoz]

I am just praying that that is in real time, tell me its in real time please because it looks simply amazing!

it is real time. just watch the video at gametrailers.com

you can tell it's real time

How can you tell it's real time? Just asking cos that looks too good to betrue.

[Goki]

Anyone notice ther fire effect werent on par with the rest of the vid (when the guy gets burned) This leads me also to belive its real-time :D

Actually if this is realtime, its the most impressive demo of next gen ive seen to date, Blows Unreal enigne thinge

[dantruon]

I was thinking of waggin Uni for a day to enjoy e3 :D :D :D

Back to topic:

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: simply beautiful, i will sell my gf in exchange for this game. :D :D

[slider]

So how long do you think that Guerilla have had this in developement? And I mean with actual devkits rather than the concept stage.

It does look beautiful and that's watching it streaming from a games website. Sigh. Wish I'd been there.

What worries me (being the sensible type & having had lots of disappointments in my life!) is that it looks too good. Did anyone else think that? The most impressive thing about it was the artistic direction of it. But bear in mind that I was watching it on as teeny tiny screen on my PC so I couldn't compare resolutions/textures and to a lesser extent lighting.

Anyway, given the artistry of the demo which is almost film-like I just think that it's a mock-up based on targeted performance of the final PS3 hardware. I really hope not cos I want this game real bad.

[KiLLA2006]

it's awesome as hell and i thought the fire effect was awesome, did you notice the air had the heat effect going on above the fire, it was just awesome... :shock: :shock: i am honestly in amazement for the first time since i heard ps1 was out, and that was a long.... LONG time ago!!!
i know this console made me drool and get all gitty like a girl, just like i had hoped it would!!!! :D 8)

[Chris Metal]

I downloaded the trailer from gamespot, the low res one and its looks much better than when its streamed, I recommend you do that.


So how long do you think that Guerilla have had this in developement? And I mean with actual devkits rather than the concept stage.

It does look beautiful and that's watching it streaming from a games website. Sigh. Wish I'd been there.

What worries me (being the sensible type & having had lots of disappointments in my life!) is that it looks too good. Did anyone else think that? The most impressive thing about it was the artistic direction of it. But bear in mind that I was watching it on as teeny tiny screen on my PC so I couldn't compare resolutions/textures and to a lesser extent lighting.

Anyway, given the artistry of the demo which is almost film-like I just think that it's a mock-up based on targeted performance of the final PS3 hardware. I really hope not cos I want this game real bad.

Well considering I heard that the Devs started working on this as soon as they finished the first, for PS2 mind unless that was a lie, but pre-planning had already taken place. So they wouldn't of had long, and they are a first party developer for Sony now. The engine they've used probably is a huge upgrade of the one used for the original Killzone. And this is the result with new power available to them. The gameplay during the vid from a FPS gun standpoint is very similar if not identical to Killzones, but faster, and more visually stunning. I know this is a tech demo, but Killzone it is none-the-less and you can expect to see something matching this on release. At least I do. No crosshairs and such mean squat, as when Killzone was first seen it didn't have those either.

[Reality Bandit]

I think those are real-time. I was doubting after scanning through Xbox forums and seeing someone say their close friend in Europe was on the team that rendered it, but after looking at the Unreal engine demo ( http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748505/vids_1.html)... I'm not doubting it at all.

Now we just need this new Killzone online, hehehe :twisted:

[RichardCypher101]

It is real-time:

http://1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5345401

I ran into an old friend from the UK when we were leaving, and it turns out he's now working on Killzone at SCEE. When I asked him how "real" the video we'd just seen was, his response was "just about all of it."

-Rich

[FerrianX]

It is real-time:

http://1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5345401

I ran into an old friend from the UK when we were leaving, and it turns out he's now working on Killzone at SCEE. When I asked him how "real" the video we'd just seen was, his response was "just about all of it."

-Rich

Just what I wanted to hear... 8)

[delta110]

It is real-time:

http://1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5345401

I ran into an old friend from the UK when we were leaving, and it turns out he's now working on Killzone at SCEE. When I asked him how "real" the video we'd just seen was, his response was "just about all of it."

-Rich
no way.



im still in shock. it can't possibly be that good......it looks too good to be a game. he must be lying in some way.


if it is i'll be afraid to get this game because my head will literally explode because of the awesome graphics. :shock:

[julps31]

It is real-time:

http://1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5345401

I ran into an old friend from the UK when we were leaving, and it turns out he's now working on Killzone at SCEE. When I asked him how "real" the video we'd just seen was, his response was "just about all of it."

-RichStill hard to beleive but I will trust this guy. It might have been scripted but if its being rendered by the console I will die happy. :lol:

[Red_Eyes]

If the Unreal Engine 3 can be run on PS3 in real time and looks that awsome, why can't Killzone?

That Killzone video is real time for sure. Scripted? Yeah, maybe. But real time? Of course. I mean, PS3 can do 2 teraflops. PS3 wil be to pull that off without a sweat.

[GodZeRo]

It's definatly raytraced cgi. A company in England was hired to produce the trailer.
And it's a trailer for KZ3, not KZ2 (which is a PS2 title coming).

[trakais]

even if it is, i still expect something `at least` as good as the video. remember the guys have the dev kit for about two months only, so they still have a year to work on the games. don't rush it, i think the wait is well worth it.

[GodZeRo]

There's a funny thread on beyond3d about the ps3, where the xbox fans were saying gow was better than kz3, and then news broke it was cgi, then everyone backed up.

I hope the game engine will be close... seeing the live tech demos it seems possable, especially considering the devs have had the ps3 dev kits for only 2 months now.

[Illmatic]

This was taken from the end of that same thread

From John Davision blog-->1up (http://1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5345401)

I ran into an old friend from the UK when we were leaving, and it turns out he's now working on Killzone at SCEE. When I asked him how "real" the video we'd just seen was, his response was "just about all of it."


EDIT:

Ooops, already been posted by RC.

[rekkit]

I don’t believe that the Kill zone trailer was pre rendered fmv, pre-scripted yes, maybe even *pre-rendered* on ps3 devkits using the game engine. The whole "English animation studio" thing is true, they did do fmv, the only thing is, it was for the first game. The fact that people are saying that because there isn’t a ammo or health bars it cant be real, well I’ve seen the pg3 demos, can’t see a rev counter anywhere, therefore... People have to remember there not the finished articles, just get the game up and running and worry about crosshairs later.

Every time I see the trailer i just think unreal engine 3, the character models and textures, the vehicle models, even the lighting is very similar.

And as for ign trying to pull it apart in there new article, it’s kinda sad, the ps3 presentation was impressive so they write about how much of it was real? The x2 presentation wasn’t so impressive so guess what the next article is? Xbox360 - only using 1/3 of its power!!!


That must mean that fight night round three and the unreal game was the finished article, running on finished hardware, the possibility that ps3 development will get stronger that what has been already been seen must be unthinkable.

[KKS]

And as for ign trying to pull it apart in there new article, it’s kinda sad, the ps3 presentation was impressive so they write about how much of it was real? The x2 presentation wasn’t so impressive so guess what the next article is? Xbox360 - only using 1/3 of its power!!!

That must mean that fight night round three and the unreal game was the finished article, running on finished hardware, the possibility that ps3 development will get stronger that what has been already been seen must be unthinkable.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft paid IGN to try and write good things about them. It seems many relatively unknown gaming sites are stating ps3 is way better than xbox360 and I believe them more than the major sites like IGN.

Also i find the unreal engine 3 demos were all pretty dark in lighting and from what i've seen, darker games are easier to make them look better cuz they hide a lot of details and lighting effects are more obvious. I know unreal engine 3 can do massive outdoors but i doubt they are gonna look as good as the environment in killzone just based on the fact that the killzone engine was developed specifically for ps3.

[The_One]

It's definatly raytraced cgi. A company in England was hired to produce the trailer.
And it's a trailer for KZ3, not KZ2 (which is a PS2 title coming). GodZero, I trust you 100% of the time when there's no contradictions... But now that there's that IGN blog thing, I don't really know who to trust XD. I kinda expected that it was pre-rendered. It simply looked too good to be in real-time, no matter what hardware. However, if you look at the nVidia demo, it's equally impressive (even more so), and that was run in real-time, so I guess it's a possibility that the killzone tech demo was running in real-time.

In-game graphics aren't gonna be that good for the first-gen games, anyways, so no point getting all hyped up people :P.

[FLCL]

IGN clearly pointed out its just speculation:
This is just a warning before we start: what follows in this article is pure, unadulterated speculation. You hear that? S-p-e-c-u-l-a-t-i-o-n. This is based on what we know about the game, and what we were able to catch during numerous views of the trailer.

There has been tons of speculation about whether or not the videos that Sony had shown at their press conference were pre-rendered or done in real-time. Well, Epic Games's Mark Rein has gone on record to say that "in addition to the Sony demos being shown by Phil Harrison, the Epic and EA presentations were the only third party portions actually running on the PS3 in real-time."

also i have to say Guerilla isnt exactly third party :wink: as for the animation studio they couldnt have been easily hired to script and direct the scene
anyhow the trailer is simply a masterpiece, i think it could be a realtime cutscene like the way Konami demoed MGS3 but i agree its too good to be true, the following points could suggest it is:

- The popup at the start
- Game-like jaggies, like at the end behind the man on the turret and on the aircraft wings (when running the video on TV), checkout the 2x MSAA under on the turret edges!

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614722/killzone-next-gen-20050516075936538.jpg
- The burning ISA soldier under the bridge no displaying correct shadows, if its pre-rendered (say on 3dMax) correct shadows are for free
- The specular reflection on the gun looks realtime (obvious under the bridge)
- The wood texture bump shimmers like in chronicles of reddick pre-rendering eliminates jaggies and shimmer (to the right before climbing the stairway)
- Guerilla demoed NURBS technology to Sony before Killzone 1

Finally checkout what epic said about all of this:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615178p1.html?fromint=1

[KKS]

I've read somewhere PSP can do NURB rendering. This was before PSP came out tho and if this is true, its not hard to speculate killzone is using nurb modelling to render the character as FLCL stated. Maybe the environment and the textures will be done on the GPU with polys while the character meshes are drawn by CELL using NURB? I mean AI in Half Life 1 was amazing and physics are awesome in half life 2, which are calculated by current PC CPUs which are relatively VERY weak compared to CELL plus they are ridden with windows overhead. So I'm sure CELL will have enough free power to do that.

[indiekid4]

i was over on the teamxbox forum and they are stating that the guys from G$techTV said that they talked with the Killzone creators and such and that they said the footage from KILLZONE2 is CG. Now, I am not sure if this is just xboxfanboys trying to come up with excuses, but I think if that was CG, then I would be dissappointed...this is why I know that wasn't CG! that was realtime! Silly teamxboxers...plus I haven't read anywhere else which has stated that this was actually CG footage.

[Chris Metal]

Found interview.

Guerrilla's stunning PLAYSTATION 3 trailer, showing the future of the Killzone series, is the talk of the town here in LA (as well as the Internet at large). We did some digging...

Jan-Bart Van Beek is the Game Director of the PS3 Killzone at Guerrilla Games, and has spent the last few months working on the trailer that really blew the crowd away at Monday's PLAYSTATION 3 unveiling. After a second showing of the trailer at today's SCEE conference received another rapturous round of applause, we caught up with Jan to find out more.

How do you feel about the reaction to the trailer that was shown yesterday?

Jan-Bart: It's been an amazing reception, the rush you get from seeing your own stuff on the big screen like that, and then the reaction to it, it's a big rush, I'm really happy about it.

How long ago did work start on the sequence?

Jan-Bart: We started working on it in late November, and only finished it three days before the show, at the very, very last moment!

It seemed like Killzone, only more so! Is that what we can expect from the finished game?

Jan-Bart: We want to avoid having just Killzone with more beautiful graphics. We want to add a lot more to it than that. So we're adding a lot more character interaction, with the ways they respond to you and how you can react to them. There's a lot more interactions between characters like you see in the trailer, people dragging each other off out of combat and helping each other, giving each other their weapons - a lot more real human interaction, basically.

[Ben Duncan, the game's Producer] It's like with the Alfred Molina demo, the quality of facial animation we can get with the characters means you'll really feel that emotional sense of being part of a unit and fighting together. Characters working together, comrades pulling each other back from the field of battle; that kind of thing is really going to move the genre forward.

There's a great moment where you see an ISA ally take out a Helghan with his rifle butt to save your bacon... is that representative of the kind of sophisticated behaviour we'll start seeing in artificial intelligence when PS3 arrives?

Jan-Bart: Yes, totally, it's just the start. Characters will be very aware, very alert to how they might be able to help you. That moment [with the rifle butt] is a good example of how it can add a little visual 'wow' to it all.

Is the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on PLAYSTATION 3?

Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.

Have you found PS3 easy to work with?

JB: Yes, we're really impressed with it. The Cell is amazingly powerful, and the graphics CPU [the RSX, co-developed with Nvidia] in there... it's actually hard to mimic it on our development PCs, we have to see it on the PS3 hardware itself. It's really nice to be working with such powerful hardware.

As yet, high definition TV isn't that widespread, especially in Europe - are you concerned that some players won't get to see your game in as much detail as is intended?

JB: No, I think in two, three years' time, HDTV will be a lot more accepted, in Europe too. We'll start out with 720p and then [onto 1080p] as there's now this product [PS3] that people will want to buy a new TV for.

Thanks, and congratulations on the work.

JB: Thanks! [Beams proudly]


Source (http://www.playstation-e3.com/)

So there you have it, they've been working on this since last November and finished it 3 days before the show! Also this is the type of interaction and facial expressions we can expect in-game!

[Red_Eyes]

So that means he's talking about the whole sequence you see. So it took 6 months to create the stage, the models, the textures, and then script everything and then run REAL TIME on PS3. Then record that onto video to show off to the world.

[Bocuma]

i read somewhere that the demo was using the same assets of what will be in the game... models, textures.
If that's true all they would have to do is nail the gameplay and shader effects...... 1080p wow

[FLCL]

did anybody read this?

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=59180

Eurogamer is actually explaining why they found those demos believable and defending the "PS3 the real next gen" and the "Xbox 360 - The Undiluted Hyperbole " articles

I actually found those articles very objective unlike so many biased US sites (yes GameSpy im talking to you!!!)

its funny how sites like Anandtech, Gamespy, Gamespot all try to be so conservative about PS3 while hyping the x360 and defending the weak demonstration :roll:

[Z]

sites like those are playing it safe. the fact is PS3 is mind-blowing to say the least. if they find room for 'any' doubt they will go with that act. if prooven wrong, they will only say "wow" and all will be forgotten. but if they say PS3 is the real deal and then proven to be wrong, they will be in an unconfortable spot.

personally, interviews with Epic guy, Killzone team, PS3 tech specs and Sony's demo trach record all suggest to me that everything on PS3 shown is real- yeas, even Motorstorm!

heck, Epic guy even said that Killzone demo graphics are perfectly achievable and that such graphics WILL BE surpassed afterwords.

[Bocuma]

http://users.coditel.net/COD11731/kill.wmv
http://users.coditel.net/COD11731/teleport.wmv

I couldn't imagine why this would happen if it was CG animation.

I think it's a ps3 development kit which has a co-ordination issue with tandem cpu/gpu rendering

[Z]

due to the PS3 performance and power shock, opinions right now are more personal than professional. wait till things cool down in the coming few days and we will see editorials and professionals handling this matter. :wink:

[Coded-Dude]

The xboxb fanboys are driving kids nuts over on playstation.com forums trying to discredit the authenticity of the demo. :P
I have no doubt that Sony WILL deliver a most impressive experience wiht this machine!

[haggisns]

that video really does provide an argument that it was'nt pre-rendered.

the second video i'm not exactly sure what is being suggested or shown, it appears the deck of the ship goes from very light to shadowed.

I get a warm fuzzy just thinking how computer users out there are
analyzing the data scientifically frame by frame and such.



Thanks Bocuma

[.®]

why is it that people can watch trailers for dark sector, watch the unreal tech demo get paused, camera rotated, paned and zoomed. But can't stomach the fact that there is a great possilbilty killzone is in game.?????

I mean if they can't reproduce this first gen then they certainly can do it later in the ps3's life cycle. Can anyone rember what tekken 1 looked like? then look at tekken 5.

People are just pissed espeacially the closet xbox fanboys. My girlfriend said it best. "the xbox 360 just looks like pretty video games, and the ps3 looks so real." and honestly if you take half of that action off the screen in that demo, and can get it to run smoothly, with half of the NPC interaction. It would still look times better than any xbox 360 game.

I'm sorry man, people need to be honest with themselves. Dead or Alive for Xbox looks times better than pratically all ps2 games. Why the hell can't the ps3 gap the xbox 360 in the same way? why?

i've never said to an xbox owner hey ninja gaiden has to be cg it's too pretty, never, not once. so why can't the ps3 reproduce that killzone trailer in realtime?

[GUNDAMSEED]

Man i find it really funny , over at ign none of them think it's real time some say CG and you tell by certains things it is not . Hell one guy said that that it would take 7 years to make a game like that man ign need's to get some one on staff that know about tech stuff. I think it'spre-scripted yes and done on the ps3.

[Z]

such topics shows you how good sites are. IGN handled this very badly on a profissional side view. check out 1up, gameindustry.biz and eurogamer to see the difference in professionalizm. it is not by whether they say it is real or not, but how they say it and explain it. seriously now, IGN views look and read like your average posts in an average forum. other sites like the ones mentioned actually interviewed Epic and another one even asked a person that directly worked on it. they also refere to other great works like Unreal and Gears of War and such. you really feel they know what they are talking about and not sound like Xbots (Xbox fanboys). such acts is digrading for a big hit site. :roll:

[Coded-Dude]

....and doesn't G4 have an IGN editor on their E3 coverage staff.

sheesh! :?

[rekkit]

Don’t know if its been posted, but for what its worth, Phil Harrison says that the killzone demo was from video (as all the demos were , “for safety”) but was to ps3 spec.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=59243

[Domination]

why is it that people can watch trailers for dark sector, watch the unreal tech demo get paused, camera rotated, paned and zoomed. But can't stomach the fact that there is a great possilbilty killzone is in game.?????

I mean if they can't reproduce this first gen then they certainly can do it later in the ps3's life cycle. Can anyone rember what tekken 1 looked like? then look at tekken 5.

People are just pissed espeacially the closet xbox fanboys. My girlfriend said it best. "the xbox 360 just looks like pretty video games, and the ps3 looks so real." and honestly if you take half of that action off the screen in that demo, and can get it to run smoothly, with half of the NPC interaction. It would still look times better than any xbox 360 game.

I'm sorry man, people need to be honest with themselves. Dead or Alive for Xbox looks times better than pratically all ps2 games. Why the hell can't the ps3 gap the xbox 360 in the same way? why?

i've never said to an xbox owner hey ninja gaiden has to be cg it's too pretty, never, not once. so why can't the ps3 reproduce that killzone trailer in realtime?

While catching up on news, I stumbled across the very samething. What it comes down to is jealousy. This generation, closed-minded fanboys owning the Xbox console had the previledge of experiencing the best looking graphics on a console system. When they found that Sony could end up more powerful, it was like a nife piercing their hearts. What you are witnessing now is them trying to find every possible reason to remain a faithful Xbox owner. It isn't that they don't want a PS3, I'm sure they do, but it's buried deep within them. But, by becoming a PlayStation owner, it also means eating your words in which you might as well have swore you'd never do. It also means stripping a piece of Microsoft established fan base.

Killzone game was labeled a Halo killer by the media (not Sony). Xbox fanboys refused to believe it because Halo was so great to them with stunning graphics as a plus. The game getting any competition could break the hearts of those who dedicated their funds and soul to the Xbox over this one game alone. With Killzone 1 turning up to be another just another FPS to some, it was a releaf for Xbox fanboys. But as I said before, the PS2's hardware was two years older than the Xbox. It was extremely dated. The Xbox console was practically a half a generation ahead in advanced technology. Next-gen will be different, however, with these consoles about on the same scale. If what was dicussed and shown of the Cell and the RSX chip at E3 was truth, then I definitely see Killzone being way more adavance than the last one.

[.®]

off topic but it answers some interesting questions. and no i did not search to see if it was already posted.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051

off topic but it answers some interesting questions. and no i did not search to see if it was already posted.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051

also that is so so true. every xbox fanboy when asked the first thing that pops out there mouth is Halo. honestly i actually own both halo 1 & 2. and i spent more time playing metroid prime on my gamecube. it's a nice game but halo really isn't that great.

killzone will maybe be a very beautiful game but in the end if it plays like crap, then whats the sense.?

[Coded-Dude]

Quoting people either from our forum or elsewhere for the sole purpose of mocking them is not tolerated

[RichardCypher101]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051

Now Phil Harrison just told Morgan Webb that the KZ footage was "all game engine or done to spec" and that "it's just scratching the surface."

Webb: "So I'll be playing that in my living room?"

Harrison: "Absolutely."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/616/616591p1.html

Is the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on PlayStation 3?

Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051

And what about the game footage clips?

Not all of that - in fact, none of it was real-time because it was all running off video. If you make a presentation to two and a half thousand people, you're going to put some of it on video just to be on the safe side.

I've been asked this question a lot. The way we put those videos together, everything was done to specification. Everything was done to PS3 spec. Virtually everything used in-game assets; some things were rendered.

How representative of what we're actually going to be seeing in PS3 games were those videos?

I think very. I think depending on the game, different games took a different approach to their way of expressing what the games are like - but clearly, something like Motor Storm uses more cinematic, replay-like cameras than you would ever enjoy in-game. So that makes a big difference... But everything is done to spec.

-Rich

[spyshagg]

well... i did some homework. frame by frame.

i found the weapons and foots getting into the ground... foots crossing tubes of metal. Polygons on wheels and helmet. Characters that never appear fully rendered.

And those Popups are seen with the videos already posted in this thread.

so:

http://img285.echo.cx/img285/6334/weaponground25kj.th.jpg (http://img285.echo.cx/my.php?image=weaponground25kj.jpg)
http://img285.echo.cx/img285/274/thingleg4be.th.jpg (http://img285.echo.cx/my.php?image=thingleg4be.jpg)
http://img162.echo.cx/img162/2531/polyswheel0hm.th.jpg (http://img162.echo.cx/my.php?image=polyswheel0hm.jpg)
http://img279.echo.cx/img279/8708/noshadowgunground3lq.th.jpg (http://img279.echo.cx/my.php?image=noshadowgunground3lq.jpg)
http://img138.echo.cx/img138/9032/foottubehelmet3ah.th.jpg (http://img138.echo.cx/my.php?image=foottubehelmet3ah.jpg)
http://img138.echo.cx/img138/1810/characternotrendered6gh.th.jpg (http://img138.echo.cx/my.php?image=characternotrendered6gh.jpg)




to find other kind of "clues" i need really high Resolution video...

these mistakes can happen in CGI i think... if its really rushed.
but i also heard the team had 7 months doing this...

they had to do something in the Dev kits!
7 months for a fully CGI-render 2minutes movie is nonsense... !

At the end, i found this movie not to be very complex at all... only the lightning/smoke/shadows are very good, the rest of it is average and the characters close to you are very complex... the ones far away are just
simple.

EDIT: i dont know why, but this is the only FORUM i know that the imageShack doesn't let see the imagens!

[Bocuma]

"the characters close to you are very complex, the ones far away are just simple"

LOD information is a level indicating how precisely the object shall be rendered according to the distance from the viewpoint....
It was talked about in a tech demo when he jokingly said it stood for "lots of ducks"


I personally would still prefer the actual game to be closer in gameplay than the graphics of the demo

[indiekid4]

Ok, i'm gonna give my reason as to why I believe this game is in realtime. Anyone here who has ever played the original Killzone knows that this game is all about interaction with the AI. From the opening battle in the original killzone you are in control of your character but every now and then you are forced to stop what you are doing because the AI on your team needs to tell you something or give you something. This is EXACTLY what you see happening in the KILLZONE trailer at E3. You see the main character listening to the captian and then the camera swings back to the players control and you see him shoot a grenade at 3 Helghast AI on the bridge. This happens OFTEN in the original KILLZONE game where you are battling the enemy and then out of no where you are forced to listen to someone on your team shout orders deverting your attention from what you were doing.

Anyways, anyone who has played killzone should of picked that up in the killzone demo.

[Z]

Aaaahh yes, the intensity that is Killzone. I loved that game! there is simply no other game that gives you that feel of urban warfare. I swear you can smell that shattered concrete!

Now as for real or not, for me, it is enough what Epic said about this breath-taking Killzone demo when asked if this is possible or not. He said sure PS3 can do that. in fact, we can do better!

amazing work spyshagg. you should have been a sniper :wink:



P.S. since the answer to the poll is obvious, the question should be changed to whether it is real or not. Should I change it so?

[julps31]

Aaaahh yes, the intensity that is Killzone. I loved that game! there is simply no other game that gives you that feel of urban warfare. I swear you can smell that shattered concrete!

Now as for real or not, for me, it is enough what Epic said about this breath-taking Killzone demo when asked if this is possible or not. He said sure PS3 can do that. in fact, we can do better!

amazing work spyshagg. you should have been a sniper :wink:



P.S. since the answer to the poll is obvious, the question should be changed to whether it is real or not. Should I change it so?Lol @ Spyshagg...trying to find if the demo is real is like trying to find a damn UFO lol. Nice obdservations Spyshagg. And if you liked the origanal Killzone and felt like you where in the middle of the action just imagine playing this. :shock: And the actions of the other soldiers really don't make me think its fake. A lot of games have scripted events and a game like Killzone (including the first one) has a whole lot (planes crashing, vehicals blown up by your squad, ect.).

[Z]

besides, even IF it wasn't really in-game specs, how much will it differ? that demo is so high up there that even if it goes down conciderably it will still look kick-ass!

[Domination]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051

Now Phil Harrison just told Morgan Webb that the KZ footage was "all game engine or done to spec" and that "it's just scratching the surface."

Webb: "So I'll be playing that in my living room?"

Harrison: "Absolutely."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/616/616591p1.html

Is the Killzone sequence a fair example of what people can expect from realtime gameplay on PlayStation 3?

Jan-Bart: Yeah, it's basically a representation of the look and feel of the game we're trying to make.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9051

And what about the game footage clips?

Not all of that - in fact, none of it was real-time because it was all running off video. If you make a presentation to two and a half thousand people, you're going to put some of it on video just to be on the safe side.

I've been asked this question a lot. The way we put those videos together, everything was done to specification. Everything was done to PS3 spec. Virtually everything used in-game assets; some things were rendered.

How representative of what we're actually going to be seeing in PS3 games were those videos?

I think very. I think depending on the game, different games took a different approach to their way of expressing what the games are like - but clearly, something like Motor Storm uses more cinematic, replay-like cameras than you would ever enjoy in-game. So that makes a big difference... But everything is done to spec.

-Rich

I read a lot of the above else where, but not the Morgan quote. That's new. But if this is true, that's great. Gameplay still comes first to me, however.

[lilkoy123]

Other scenes that suggests that the footage is real time.

http://img199.echo.cx/img199/1410/killzone200100018wd.th.jpg (http://img199.echo.cx/my.php?image=killzone200100018wd.jpg)
http://img127.echo.cx/img127/9030/killzone200100026of.th.jpg (http://img127.echo.cx/my.php?image=killzone200100026of.jpg)
http://img186.echo.cx/img186/4704/kill3kn.th.jpg (http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=kill3kn.jpg)
http://img127.echo.cx/img127/6967/killzone200200035si.th.jpg (http://img127.echo.cx/my.php?image=killzone200200035si.jpg)


http://img283.echo.cx/img283/9646/soldier8mo.th.png (http://img283.echo.cx/my.php?image=soldier8mo.png)
After the next frame....
http://img288.echo.cx/img288/3416/jimm17ph.th.png (http://img288.echo.cx/my.php?image=jimm17ph.png)
This issues can be fix in the final build but I don't care. The game already looks good the way it is.

[Domination]

well... i did some homework. frame by frame.

i found the weapons and foots getting into the ground... foots crossing tubes of metal. Polygons on wheels and helmet. Characters that never appear fully rendered.

And those Popups are seen with the videos already posted in this thread.

so:

to find other kind of "clues" i need really high Resolution video...

these mistakes can happen in CGI i think... if its really rushed.
but i also heard the team had 7 months doing this...

they had to do something in the Dev kits!
7 months for a fully CGI-render 2minutes movie is nonsense... !

At the end, i found this movie not to be very complex at all... only the lightning/smoke/shadows are very good, the rest of it is average and the characters close to you are very complex... the ones far away are just
simple.

EDIT: i dont know why, but this is the only FORUM i know that the imageShack doesn't let see the imagens!

Just after you Captain is shot down after the tank is blown up, one of your team mates runs infront of you. If you look closely, your gun goes right through his back. I think you missed that one. :wink:

Hopefully this game is as good as it looks. And it looks mighty impressive after only seven months development time. The captain actually has realistic looking skin when the trailer first comes on with the camera zoomed in close on his face. It's a much bigger leap than what I thought it would be.

BTW, have any tried comparing the last game to this one?

[eggyoke]

Has anyone seen this interview? Jack Tretton confirms the Killzone vdeo was real-time gameplay footage.

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/vids_1.html

[julps31]

Yay this is fun. :D Find Killzones graphical mishaps so we can figure out if its real or not (seriously lol). Man I love when its confirmed. The more sources the better. Real-time gameplay? I'll be in heaven. I'm guessing that interview was on G4 yesterday? The only day where I missed a nice amount of the E3 coverage.

[Brandon]

Wow...just wow. The little flaws that you guys notice are just...beyond me. ;) You guys have keen eyesight.

[diOndOrAntt]

well... i did some homework. frame by frame.

i found the weapons and foots getting into the ground... foots crossing tubes of metal. Polygons on wheels and helmet. Characters that never appear fully rendered.

And those Popups are seen with the videos already posted in this thread.

so:

http://img285.echo.cx/img285/6334/weaponground25kj.th.jpg (http://img285.echo.cx/my.php?image=weaponground25kj.jpg)
http://img285.echo.cx/img285/274/thingleg4be.th.jpg (http://img285.echo.cx/my.php?image=thingleg4be.jpg)
http://img162.echo.cx/img162/2531/polyswheel0hm.th.jpg (http://img162.echo.cx/my.php?image=polyswheel0hm.jpg)
http://img279.echo.cx/img279/8708/noshadowgunground3lq.th.jpg (http://img279.echo.cx/my.php?image=noshadowgunground3lq.jpg)
http://img138.echo.cx/img138/9032/foottubehelmet3ah.th.jpg (http://img138.echo.cx/my.php?image=foottubehelmet3ah.jpg)
http://img138.echo.cx/img138/1810/characternotrendered6gh.th.jpg (http://img138.echo.cx/my.php?image=characternotrendered6gh.jpg)




to find other kind of "clues" i need really high Resolution video...

these mistakes can happen in CGI i think... if its really rushed.
but i also heard the team had 7 months doing this...

they had to do something in the Dev kits!
7 months for a fully CGI-render 2minutes movie is nonsense... !

At the end, i found this movie not to be very complex at all... only the lightning/smoke/shadows are very good, the rest of it is average and the characters close to you are very complex... the ones far away are just
simple.

EDIT: i dont know why, but this is the only FORUM i know that the imageShack doesn't let see the imagens!

I posted this on a dutch site, with credits to u. I hope u dont mind :oops:

[SheElf]

i really hope they let me use my MICROSOFT bluetooth mouse to play this game.

[Z]

Wow...just wow. The little flaws that you guys notice are just...beyond me. ;) You guys have keen eyesight.
It’s called ‘perfection passion’ otherwise known as PS3 for short ;)
This reminds me of when I was in the war. Why, back then, the graphics weren’t have as good as this baby. Hell we didn’t even have color!-which made differentiating between our tanks and theirs a real pan in the a**. Why, I remember the time I…*goes on and on with the heroics*

[LefrighJab]

I was thinking of waggin Uni for a day to enjoy e3 :D :D :D

Back to topic:

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: simply beautiful, i will sell my gf in exchange for this game. :D :D

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

This game looks incredible <---- understatment of the year lol

[spyshagg]

well... i did some homework. frame by frame.

i found the weapons and foots getting into the ground... foots crossing tubes of metal. Polygons on wheels and helmet. Characters that never appear fully rendered.

And those Popups are seen with the videos already posted in this thread.

so:

to find other kind of "clues" i need really high Resolution video...

these mistakes can happen in CGI i think... if its really rushed.
but i also heard the team had 7 months doing this...

they had to do something in the Dev kits!
7 months for a fully CGI-render 2minutes movie is nonsense... !

At the end, i found this movie not to be very complex at all... only the lightning/smoke/shadows are very good, the rest of it is average and the characters close to you are very complex... the ones far away are just
simple.

EDIT: i dont know why, but this is the only FORUM i know that the imageShack doesn't let see the imagens!

Just after you Captain is shot down after the tank is blown up, one of your team mates runs infront of you. If you look closely, your gun goes right through his back. I think you missed that one. :wink:

Hopefully this game is as good as it looks. And it looks mighty impressive after only seven months development time. The captain actually has realistic looking skin when the trailer first comes on with the camera zoomed in close on his face. It's a much bigger leap than what I thought it would be.

BTW, have any tried comparing the last game to this one?

yes i saw it now.... i was searching for such little errors and polygons that i miss that big one... and wow, thats a big one lol

guys, i think.... even if this was post-processed to make it a movie, this trailer had to be processed from game-code-real-engine. Even if each Frame took 10 minutes to render and later joined together at 30fps in a CGI program...

[GUNDAMSEED]

Well i to piont where i don't care any more if it was real time or CG there just so much hate on the net right now it's not even funny . This has to be best site right now .

Guys on the B3D fourm say it's CG no matter how many mistakes it has .Guys on other other sites say it was real time but pre script . Even gaming site now are acting like fan boys .I never thought that 1 vid would have the gaming world is such a up roar .

As for me i thing it was pre script just like how MGS movies are . i don't think it will have that level of AI and other stuff but i sure that ps3 might able to have games looking like that later on down the road .

[spyshagg]

i find amazing that this Demo does not have a single polygon showing! (well, its not true, i found 2 small ones)

But if one looks at the CELL demo LONDON city, it also doesn't have showing polygons, at all! (well, its not true.. some ppl models have polygons showing), other than that... i didn't found one single polygon on the entire "city"
and it was real time... the london demo. i suppose.

[Brandon]

and it was real time... the london demo. i suppose.
They were interacting with it at the conference, so yes...it was real-time.

[Red_Eyes]

And behold, the great marketing strategy of Sony and the Killzone developers. By not actually confirming anything, the developers got the whole world to talk about Killzone. Isn't that great? Now, everyone will know Killzone PS3. Lol. I just can't believe their marketing skills. Lol.

And oh, it's realtime, but some events were scripted, while others were real time. And I got proof. When the game give control to the player, right before he blow up the enemies on the bridge, he was shooting aimlessly at the ground, where there was no enemy in sight. A human mistake. If it was pre render, there would have been no mistake like that. So the player was actually shooting at nothing at the ground, then realize that there's nobody there, saw that the enemy were on the bridge instead. So he blew the hell out of them. But this aiming and shooting mistake confirms that it is real time, gameplay footage.

[Domination]

Has anyone seen this interview? Jack Tretton confirms the Killzone vdeo was real-time gameplay footage.

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/vids_1.html

Killzone is real time!!!!
G4: Was some of the stuff real, CGI. It look so good. Is some of the stuff in there computer, smoke and mirrors?

"It's definitely real. I guess we're good at keeping secrets because the dev kits were out there. The dev kits were very intuitive. People did some pretty amazing things, and that's one thing Ted wanted to make sure everyone understood. That is real gameplay everbody's seeing out there."

G4: So all that is gameplay?

"It is gameplay"

:shock: :shock: :shock: I knew it was real. That is one huge freakin' leap compared to the first Killzone. I guess now this put those nay-sayers to rest.

Great source, Eggyoke.

[Rallyracr420]

So with all these graphics, can we finally jump in the new killzone?

[Brandon]

So with all these graphics, can we finally jump in the new killzone?
I hope so. :lol: But I think they left out the ability to jump for a reason. I guess they thought it'd be unnatural to have people jumping around like lunatics like they do in Halo...making it impossible to shoot the other player. But I know what you mean. Walking over a twig was a mighty task in the original Killzone.

[Fazares]

hahah...cg quality gfx...a reality...finally.
i knew it 8)

[Red_Eyes]

There probably still isn't gonna be a jump button. I mean, jumping is pretty unrealistic. Do people jump in WW2 in real life? No, they just march.

[julps31]

hahah...cg quality gfx...a reality...finally.
i knew it 8)I remember when everybody thought the closest we'll get to CG is Tekken intro movie style graphics. I wouldv'e never imagined we would get graphics as good as Killzone (new killer app?). I love it. I wonder if its all real (I can't help but wonder) because the smoke and explosions are gorguse. 8)

[Saibo]

Oh yeah I said it in the other thread but...look at those textures. So much detail...super-hi poly or normal maps.

either ultra high polygon count or realtime displacement mapping.
as for texture, i think they could be procedurally generated texture. I dont know just a educated guess, as to why they are to high poly/texture. We dont know what features RSX has. Even the terrain demo, show off some realtime displacement mapping(but that was running off of Cell only, not RSX. procedural texture, AFAIK havent been done in PC or console..but if done right they can look really real, i dont think they are affect by the 512 MB memory either..they are generated by the Cell or RSX..no image maps(correct if im wrong , someone). Also maybe RSX supports high order surface types on HW, that would explain the ultra high polygon count(either that, or realtime displacement mapping, as i said earlier)

Killzone 2, thee best trailer for next gen console, bar NONE!! There has been great debate as to if its realtime or not, people are still debating over it. IMO, it might be a scripted scene running off the engine, that would explain all the pop up errors, and other errors in some of the frames. Most likely it could of been taken into a composting app(i.e. after effects) and touched up abit, though why the compositor didnt remove the pop up and other errors in the frames, laids me to believe it is real time even more.

PS, Killzone2 makes UE3 engine look like a walk in the park. :D

EDIT:

just no more thing i want to add. the power of procedural texturing:

http://www.darksim.com/

I think even the clouds in the Cell terrian demo was procedural perlin noise.

[julps31]

Oh yeah I said it in the other thread but...look at those textures. So much detail...super-hi poly or normal maps.

either ultra high polygon count or realtime displacement mapping.
as for texture, i think they could be procedurally generated texture. I dont know just a educated guess, as to why they are to high poly/texture. We dont know what features RSX has.True. I was thinking the same thing. Now that we have the PS3 specs we've been waiting years for we need to know the features (polygon processing, partical processing, pixel fill-rate, ect.).

[Z]

So with all these graphics, can we finally jump in the new killzone?
with those graphics, HELL I’ll crawl through the entire game if I have to!

And to note, Sony did officially confirm Killzone to be real-time!

[julps31]

So with all these graphics, can we finally jump in the new killzone?
with those graphics, HELL I’ll crawl through the entire game if I have to!

And to note, Sony did officially confirm Killzone to be real-time!Officially? In what way? A press release or something? You got a source?

[nlitement]

So with all these graphics, can we finally jump in the new killzone?
with those graphics, HELL I’ll crawl through the entire game if I have to!

And to note, Sony did officially confirm Killzone to be real-time!Officially? In what way? A press release or something? You got a source?
Yeah we want to know :(

[Fats]

I've been hearing all over that it wasn't in real-time, but was a demonstration of what they are trying to achieve with the PS3.

I'm really confused, I'm hearing different comments all over the place.

[nlitement]

I've been hearing all over that it wasn't in real-time, but was a demonstration of what they are trying to achieve with the PS3.

I'm really confused, I'm hearing different comments all over the place.
Listen man, it is real-time. Read this whole topic. The skeptics dont have any confirmed sources. Also check out what bigrick said: http://www.psinext.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6872.

And here's a small quote from z, he's right:

Also note that E3 is attended by some of the greatest talents in the industry form engineers, designers, programmers, etc. it is very risky to try to ‘pull a fast one’ here as you will be immediately caught on the spot and then scrutinized. THAT would be devastating to a company at such a time with such media focus with your rivals a couple of feet away. And if you think about it, all the ones that favor the demos were real give you good reasons why they think that. On the other hand, all those that doubt it base their opinions on simply saying “it is too good to be true”. So they ae in disbelief, and you get that clearly from the reasons they give to support their opinions- or should I say their first impressions.

Also, Sony never once lied in any tech demo ever. In fact, PS2 deos aren’t that good if you compare them to the games we have now. Even launch games surpassed some of them like the difference between the Tekken demo and TTT. You can also see the PSP demos. Death Jr. for example, wowed everybody. Now, that game is the ugliest on PSP though it hasn’t even been released yet!

Finally, of course nothing was running on PS3 hardware simply because there isn’t PS2 hardware out there. It is still being made. If there were PS3 hardware we will be getting PS3 in a few months. We are forced to wait an in entire year for a reason. As with X2, these demos are made to final hardware specs.

Yes, the demos are amazing, but is being amazing enough of a reason to downplay a system?
Mark my words: we will see games with such graphics in the first year!



and come on now, UT2007 is real-time with out question. is there REALLY THAT big a difference between it and Killzone? the art direction is very different, but graphically they are very similar.


I have read word from Phil Harrison though saying that the demos may well be recorded 'realtime' videos - just to make sure that nothing goes wrong on the day.

Well, it still wouldn't matter if it's rendered real-time live on PS3 or a video. As long as it is capable of it :).

[pdc]

I've been hearing all over that it wasn't in real-time, but was a demonstration of what they are trying to achieve with the PS3.

I'm really confused, I'm hearing different comments all over the place.

Indeed. It seems to me that some Sony people are saying it's not real-time and some say it is!

Watch this interview with Sony's Jack Tretton
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/vids_1.html
He says it is definitely realtime - running on a PS3 Dev Kit behind the scenes.

I have read word from Phil Harrison though saying that the demos may well be recorded 'realtime' videos - just to make sure that nothing goes wrong on the day.

Hmmmm...

[Mordecai]

Even if you read the statements from the Epic guy (which is what most people who claim the demos are pre-rendered will point to), he said that the only things in the PC running in real time on actual hardware were Fight Night and UT2k7. What he fails to mention is that the other demos weren't running in real time because they were recorded and played back for the audience, but they were rendered with the in-game engine and thus are the actual graphics that should be found in the games.

[Domination]

I've been hearing all over that it wasn't in real-time, but was a demonstration of what they are trying to achieve with the PS3.

I'm really confused, I'm hearing different comments all over the place.

Indeed. It seems to me that some Sony people are saying it's not real-time and some say it is!

Watch this interview with Sony's Jack Tretton
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/vids_1.html
He says it is definitely realtime - running on a PS3 Dev Kit behind the scenes.

I have read word from Phil Harrison though saying that the demos may well be recorded 'realtime' videos - just to make sure that nothing goes wrong on the day.

Hmmmm...

I think you're confusing the statements. Read between the lines. Yes, the footage is recorded as a video. But that recorded video was taken from the actual gameplay. Either way you look at it, it is real-time gameplay, and that's what Tretton is saying.

[lilkoy123]

Other scenes that suggests that the footage is real time.

http://img199.echo.cx/img199/1410/killzone200100018wd.th.jpg (http://img199.echo.cx/my.php?image=killzone200100018wd.jpg)
http://img127.echo.cx/img127/9030/killzone200100026of.th.jpg (http://img127.echo.cx/my.php?image=killzone200100026of.jpg)
http://img186.echo.cx/img186/4704/kill3kn.th.jpg (http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=kill3kn.jpg)
http://img127.echo.cx/img127/6967/killzone200200035si.th.jpg (http://img127.echo.cx/my.php?image=killzone200200035si.jpg)

These issues can be fix in the final build but I don't care. The game already looks good the way it is.

[Z]

interviews with Sony officials are popping all around- sadly most aren’t translated very well (mostly instant automated translations). In one of them the interviewer directly asked about Killzone’s demo if it was real or not. The official simply said: “yes. It is real”.
I’ll past it if I find it-although I’m sure it will be all over the place shortly ;)

[RichardCypher101]

Alright, think of a scene in Metal Gear Solid 3. Cut scenes ran on the games' game engine. So basically a cut scene would render the same way as it would in gameplay right? Right.

Take the Killzone footage. Some reports may be misinterpreted, which is why some seem to be contradictory. The Killzone footage is like a scene in MGS3, it is using the game engine, but its scripted and even stated at the Pre-E3 conference, of course we'd never see some of those camera angles or even happening go on all at once, because for actual gameplay, it nearly impossible, too distracting and fast paced.

The Killzone footage is running in realtime on the PS3 kits, but like MGS3 its running the game engine as a cutscene.

-Rich

[Domination]

That I can believe. It kinda reminds me of Halo 2 when the main character gets dropped off near a fire fight against aliens and an amry of soldiers in which he has to help. I don't have th movie, but I do remember one of the soldiers confronting him while another lies bleeding on the ground. The teaser was shown at E3 03.

Although it was scriped, none of the visuals changed, not even in the slightest bit, to the actual gameplay. In Killzones case, I believe the whole thing was scriped.

[shadowofomioc]

Considering the immense power increase in every single area compared to Xbox ( being the most powerful system ), I dont see how this is really all that hard to believe. There is a topic right here on this forum about real-time CG quality graphics being reality, and we have been proven by now only PS3 but also Xbox360 ( Gears of War anyone? ) that it is indeed a fact.

If you go over to www.ign.com and watch the video with the dude from Killzone with G4TV he gets asked the question straight up, " Was Killzone 2 actual in-game gameplay or was it all CG smoke and mirrors? " And the guy says straight up " oh they wanted to make sure everyone knew this was actual gameplay, nothing rendered ".

So there you have it, the question answered. Those are gameplay screens. Why the hell would you make a movie showing someone actually running around shooting like he was playing the game and not be real? That would be retarded. You could just make a movie like .... Heavenly Sword, which looked really awesome but nothing was actual gameplay.

Killing Day, I8, Killzone 2, etc. all had gameplay.

[nlitement]

Considering the immense power increase in every single area compared to Xbox ( being the most powerful system ), I dont see how this is really all that hard to believe. There is a topic right here on this forum about real-time CG quality graphics being reality, and we have been proven by now only PS3 but also Xbox360 ( Gears of War anyone? ) that it is indeed a fact.

If you go over to www.ign.com and watch the video with the dude from Killzone with G4TV he gets asked the question straight up, " Was Killzone 2 actual in-game gameplay or was it all CG smoke and mirrors? " And the guy says straight up " oh they wanted to make sure everyone knew this was actual gameplay, nothing rendered ".

So there you have it, the question answered. Those are gameplay screens. Why the hell would you make a movie showing someone actually running around shooting like he was playing the game and not be real? That would be retarded. You could just make a movie like .... Heavenly Sword, which looked really awesome but nothing was actual gameplay.

Killing Day, I8, Killzone 2, etc. all had gameplay.
It's not gameplay. It is real-time though. As Rich said, the animations were scripted, the only thing amazing is that it is real-time. If that would've been gameplay the camera wouldn't move around that cinematic. But yes, that is the rendering level you will see when playing KZ2. :) I-8 is the only one with real gameplay footage shown. It had a crosshair and it was taken when it was played.

[Z]

Why the hell would you make a movie showing someone actually running around shooting like he was playing the game and not be real? That would be retarded. You could just make a movie like .... Heavenly Sword, which looked really awesome but nothing was actual gameplay.


I agree on the why show it as in-game if it wasn't. but Heavenly Sword is all in-game as well (except for the face close-up at the beginning). having said that, even that part could be easily made in game as that face looks nothing as Killzone's faces. not enough time I guess.

and whatever you think about Killzone, seeing crosshairs, life bars, bullet count, etc. as evidence of real game play is not accurate. those things are the last to be added and only matters to gamers. so even when testing a game you don't have to have those things showing up. plus you can easily put something up like a fake life bar. that isn't something to put your argument on.

[jaxmkii]

It's looks great, lets hope it plays better than the first part, I hope sony won't promote it as there halo killer. why not? thats what it is 8)

[Junox50]

found this over at IGN on the 3 page, I believe.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/618/618430p1.html


Killzone PS3

Publisher: Sony Computer Entertainment

Developer: Guerilla Games

Genre: First-Person Shooter

Release Date: TBA What We Know:


It's currently unknown if Killzone PS3 will eventually become Killzone 2 or something else entirely, but one thing's for sure: the war with the Helghast will definitely continue on the PlayStation 3. Rather than just recreate the gameplay elements of the first Killzone while giving it a better coat of paint, however, developer Guerilla Games is already working on specific mechanical improvements to make it a more complete experience. Interaction between you and your NPC cohorts, for example, will be a lot more realistic. People will help each other during battle by dragging the injured out of a firefight or by tossing you an extra weapon if you run out of ammo. Characters will be entirely aware of their environment and surroundings too, and they'll even have sophisticated adaptation behaviors that help them respond to problems on the fly. Finally, all of these reactions will be played out emotionally on each of your teammate's faces and the direction of the action will be a lot more cinematic along the way. But that's not all. A few other gameplay tidbits have been confirmed as well. The progression of each level, for instance, will be completely non-linear and will boast a number of destructible objects and environments. Additionally, users will be able to command a multitude of vehicles through the land, sea, and air, and even be able to customize the specifics of their online play. Despite the above details, however, the biggest controversy about the game has been the nature of the drop-dead gorgeous trailer that ran at Sony's E3 press conference. Is it real-time or is it rendered? The official answer from SCEA Vice President Jack Tretton is that it was real and actual gameplay, but SCEE Executive VP of Development Phil Harrison has stated that some of the trailers during the presentation were rendered using in-game assets. We're leaning towards Harrison's answer right now until we can play the game for ourselves -- but either way, the trailer rocked.


Cool, looks like the next gen Killzone will be everything everyone wanted :D

[The_One]

Yes, I'm reviving a previously dead topic, sue me.
Cool, looks like the next gen Killzone will be everything everyone wanted All I care about is the AI... The bugs in the first game's AI made it completely horrid... Ugh :roll:.

[GTShotoKen]

Yes, I'm reviving a previously dead topic, sue me.
Cool, looks like the next gen Killzone will be everything everyone wanted All I care about is the AI... The bugs in the first game's AI made it completely horrid... Ugh :roll:.

I agree. That was the most bitting issue with its first iteration.

[raVen]

well the intelligent AI of giving weapons watching your back and what not seen in the trailer are what the team is shooting for

[Z]

Yes, I'm reviving a previously dead topic, sue me.

not at all. there is nothing against posting anything useful or intertaining in any thread. and Killzone is by no means a 'dead' topic :wink:

[Fazares]

Yes, I'm reviving a previously dead topic, sue me.
Cool, looks like the next gen Killzone will be everything everyone wanted All I care about is the AI... The bugs in the first game's AI made it completely horrid... Ugh :roll:.
really...ai bugs were the last of killzone problems....

[GTShotoKen]

Yes, I'm reviving a previously dead topic, sue me.

not at all. there is nothing against posting anything useful or intertaining in any thread. and Killzone is by no means a 'dead' topic :wink:

Amen! :lol:

The one thing I am most curious about with this next incarnation is the usage of destuctable environments. I wonder if allies and enemies alike can use these new obstacles as cover. Using the changing and deforming environment to aid attack would add a whole new gameplay dynamic. The fact that the game is non-linear this time (thank God!) combined with the possiblities of destructible environments is just salivating!

Wow! This would mean some absolutly complex AI routines.

The one level I wish that Guerrilla will take a look at is the Jungle level from the original game. They could definitely flesh that out a emulate a FarCry style experience.

Oh! A Flamethrower. What would be cooler than having spectacular flamthrower battles in a swampy marsh with volumetric smoke flying everywhere.

Last but not least is the improvements to multiplayer. All these new gameplay mechanics like vehicles and non-linear environments could be used to make an absolutley amazing multiplayer experience. The likes of which "Battlefield" could only dream of. :D

[indiekid4]

Yes, I'm reviving a previously dead topic, sue me.
Cool, looks like the next gen Killzone will be everything everyone wanted All I care about is the AI... The bugs in the first game's AI made it completely horrid... Ugh :roll:.

Oh really? I have had the game sense it came out and i havent seen any problem with the AI.....lol...

I really dont know what everyones beef is with the org. Killzone game...i find it very entertaining and overlooked.

[Junox50]

I wonder if they'll include new characters or have the old ones make a return. According to some, the characters from the first Killzone were a bit Cliché. I didnt mind them, but i would like to see some new playable faces.

[LiquidEagle]

Yeah, if you look closely in the environment as that first craft gets shot down, you can see a small amount of pop-in, or something like it. I was just checking out the high-def. version and noticed that.

Also, the whole craft disappearing thing too... I wouldn't be surprised either way... if it's just a visual target then "okay, they're aiming high it seems." If it is real time, then "sweet, this is what I expected PS3 games to be like anyways!" :lol:

[Z]

Oh! A Flamethrower
since it was clearly shown in the trailer, I am certain there will be aflame thrower.

I really dont know what everyones beef is with the org. Killzone game...i find it very entertaining and overlooked
Same here. It is the best FPS I’ve ever had the pleasure of playing. GO HELLGAST!! :twisted:

[The_One]

well the intelligent AI of giving weapons watching your back and what not seen in the trailer are what the team is shooting for Yeah, I know they're aiming for it, I just hope they deliver with the actual game. They also touted about the complex AI of Killzone during development, yet there was still quite a few bugs in the final version.
Oh really? I have had the game sense it came out and i havent seen any problem with the AI.....lol... Sometimes, when you throw a grenade at the enemy, he's just walk around or simply stand there waiting to be blown up, or if he was already walking, he'd walk straight into the grenade and still die. I'm not saying this happens all the time, but it has happened a few time to warrant it as a "bug".

Of course, overall, the game was awsome, I'm just saying that the AI could have been improved some more.

[Z]

Of course, overall, the game was awsome, I'm just saying that the AI could have been improved some more.
The AI could have been improved for all games really. and though there are of course moments, the game showed some of the smartest AI I have seen in a game. It is also worth noting that the online mode has even smarter AI than the single player game which is the opposite in all the other games.

[dantruon]

I'm not a fan of FPS but after seeing that video trailer, it has turn me into a big fan of FPS.

I hope the gameplay look similar to the trailer, ok i dont mind a bit dowgrade in graphic as long as the feeling is still there. :lol:

[shadowofomioc]

The problem is, these games are now being built for High Resolution HD TV's first, and standard TV's 2nd. We will see this level of detail and quality, but you will only be able to REALLY see the massive clarity these games provide if you own an HD TV. These are becoming FAR more common of course, and thanks to PS3 and Xbox360 I think sales for HD Tv's will skyrocket but it will take time.

So you will inevitably see people saying, " omg this game doesnt look ANYTHING like the video! I see jaggies and its not too clear! " while the only 4% of gamers with HD screens are sitting back saying, " omg this is exactly what I expected this looks incredible!!! ".

Games usually look alot better on the PC because of simple resolution of the PC monitors, it makes a massive differences in video quality when your showcasing things in High Resolution.

We will see though. I can say this though, all I had to do was plug in an S-Video cable for my PS2 to make the games look tons crisper with more vibrant colors, less jaggies, etc. So it does make a huge difference.

[lshian]

I think the PC monitor would work fine. I will gladly get a 19" one :D

[TEEDA]

Artworks

http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/41181420050613_172337_1_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/41181420050613_164025_0_big.jpg
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/41181420050613_172337_0_big.jpg

source : http://www.jeux-france.com/news10670_killzone-3-artworks.html

[n1n9tean]

So then it was KILLZONE 3 that we saw demoed at the conference. KILLZONE 2 is in development for PS2 or (possibly) PSP.

New Killzone 3 Art
So the PlayStation 3 game will be Killzone 3 then?
by Ivan Sulic
June 13, 2005 - Just before Killzone launched on PlayStation 2 we spoke candidly with some of the developers at Guerilla. They told us that work on Killzone 2 was already underway and that it would not be a PlayStation 3 title. They would not, however, confirm Killzone 2 for either PS2 or PSP release.


That bit of information seemed to be contradicted by the 2005 Sony E3 press conference, which depicted a now controversial video of Killzone PS3. One thing to note from the video was that it was not ever referred to as Killzone 2.
Just recently, Jeux-France updated with artwork from "Killzone 3" (the art in question is at least labeled as such). This artwork depicts scenes specifically highlighted during the Killzone PS3 video demonstration.

Given the available information, we expect that the still unofficial Killzone 2 is in development for either PSP or PS2 and that Killzone for PS3 will in fact be Killzone 3, or at least the third in the series.

Check out the new artwork attached to our media page below. (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/624/624671p1.html)

[julps31]

Those concept schetches look pretty nice. Its exciting to see more news on the game. Now we only have to wait on actual screens. 8)

[dantruon]

the concepts arts image are very high quality ,it just make one wonder why the real game wont look and feel like the E3 trailer.

[shadowofomioc]

Well, someone needs to come up with a program that takes old games and increases everything visually by 200x lol. Because thats what this generation will provide. We are getting trully massive boosts in Vram, which will completely erase any and all blurry texture, low color pallete, variety problems and it will completely erase framerate problems ( unless your an early 360 game ). Then we are provided with massively more speedy processors that are capable of every kind of visual trick known ( even raytracing I hear ).

I think you can just look at Killzone and up everything going on by a good 50 - 100x and you'll get an idea of what Killzone 3 would be like. Which is why I will not be suprised in the least if the Killzone demo was in fact actual scripted gameplay ( like the Silent Choreographer landing of Halo ) and the actual game will look that way. We are recieving too high of a boost for the difference in graphics to be what the 360 showed in some cases ( NFS, Project Gotham, etc. ).

[Junox50]

Well, someone needs to come up with a program that takes old games and increases everything visually by 200x lol. Because thats what this generation will provide. We are getting trully massive boosts in Vram, which will completely erase any and all blurry texture, low color pallete, variety problems and it will completely erase framerate problems ( unless your an early 360 game ). Then we are provided with massively more speedy processors that are capable of every kind of visual trick known ( even raytracing I hear ).

I think you can just look at Killzone and up everything going on by a good 50 - 100x and you'll get an idea of what Killzone 3 would be like. Which is why I will not be suprised in the least if the Killzone demo was in fact actual scripted gameplay ( like the Silent Choreographer landing of Halo ) and the actual game will look that way. We are recieving too high of a boost for the difference in graphics to be what the 360 showed in some cases ( NFS, Project Gotham, etc. ).

I hope you are right, my friend. Because I am truly looking forward to this game. :wink:

[The_One]

Well, someone needs to come up with a program that takes old games and increases everything visually by 200x lol. Because thats what this generation will provide. We are getting trully massive boosts in Vram, which will completely erase any and all blurry texture, low color pallete, variety problems and it will completely erase framerate problems ( unless your an early 360 game ). Then we are provided with massively more speedy processors that are capable of every kind of visual trick known ( even raytracing I hear ).
I don't know where you're getting the idea that there will be no framerate problems, but one thing is for sure, there will always be crappily coded games that will have framerate problems :lol:.
Also, ray tracing is simply not possible on either the X360 nor the PS3, and the Xenos is supposedly more capable than the RSX.
At least those darned muddy texture problems will be a thing of the past ;).

[Z]

Xenos is supposedly more capable than the RSX

oh no, they got to you too? :?

[The_One]

Xenos is supposedly more capable than the RSX

oh no, they got to you too? :? Sadly, yes :cry:. Of course, I'll try refraining from judging either until the official specs are out :P.

[rpgamer_2k5]

Too much dreamers on the other forums. I'm so sure they will be upset in the end. To say the Xenos > RSX is a pipedream especially with the type of statements coming from MS ("power isn't everything") and Ken Kutaraji ("PS3 is a supercomputer").

That is enough hints for me. :P

[makeitlookreal]

1) Ray tracing is indeed possible on the PS3. But it will most certianly not have the power to do an entire game based on ray tracing. Perhaps a little bit of simple ray tracing here and there, but not the entire game. Ray tracing is indeed possible on the PS3. But to do very good ray tracing we would need something much more powerful.

2) There is no real way at this point to compare the XBox 360's GPU and the RSX. We don't have the final data on the RSX and still don't have all the information on the 360's GPU. Sony and nVidia still have a while to work on their GPU and make improvements.

3) The overall ammount of RAM in the PS3 is not an amazing increase over the RAM in the PS2. It is a big increase, but nothing amazing. We still may have problems cramming in enough data to have really realistic textures. If Sony really wanted to make their system stand out they would boost the RAM to one gigabyte.

[Gounmckuber]

A gig seems a bit much dont ya think? Im hoping that sony will increase the gpu ram to 512mb while leaving the cpu with the 256mb xdr. I say forget that small triviality known as the "HDD". Take that money elsewhere and increase system specs. :P

[Games Lord]

killzone is killzone and i think that the game going to be more cool than
halo 3 .. we will wait ti know !

[Z]

I wonder what will they show for Killzone PS3 in TGS? I do expect Killzone 2 to be there. So they might not show the third one to keep the focus on the next game. That is why I think K2 didn’t appear at E3.

hmmm……..

[Domination]

Well, someone needs to come up with a program that takes old games and increases everything visually by 200x lol. Because thats what this generation will provide. We are getting trully massive boosts in Vram, which will completely erase any and all blurry texture, low color pallete, variety problems and it will completely erase framerate problems ( unless your an early 360 game ). Then we are provided with massively more speedy processors that are capable of every kind of visual trick known ( even raytracing I hear ).

I think you can just look at Killzone and up everything going on by a good 50 - 100x and you'll get an idea of what Killzone 3 would be like. Which is why I will not be suprised in the least if the Killzone demo was in fact actual scripted gameplay ( like the Silent Choreographer landing of Halo ) and the actual game will look that way. We are recieving too high of a boost for the difference in graphics to be what the 360 showed in some cases ( NFS, Project Gotham, etc. ).

I think what the problem is are people realising one thing about video games and that is that they should look like video games. And I admit, this game reaching such high visual levels is a huge leap from the PS2's Killzone. But, IMO, it isn't unlikely if you're looking back at the PS1.

When the graphics thread first started in this forum, I remember members talking about how the next-gen consoles will reach visuals like Doom 3, and how they'll be struggling with them at that. Therefore, expecting anything but a very small improvement beyond this would be insane. It seemed too underrated to be true to me, based on what I have been seeing. But, not until recently did many think different of the possibility after the unveiling of the Unreal Engine. All I'm seeing now is that same cycle making its turn.

As unrealistic as it may sound, quite a few of the next-gen titles most likely won't look anything like a video game, and that's basing a lot of that on what I am now seeing of our current PCs. It would be like comparing a 95 to 98 PC to the current consoles, and we all know how that went.

Xenos is supposedly more capable than the RSX

You need some time off. :lol: Please tell me you don't honestly believe that? I don't care what Microsoft or ATI boosts about the 360. The fact is, this thing is launching early. The two can pull as many numbers and excuses as they want out of their butt, but the way i see it, if the others are launching later, that usually means getting the latest versions after Microsoft's design already finalised ahead of time. The last thing I would expect is for their console to be the most powerful. If anything, I would expect Nintendo to hold a better challenge regardless to how they were viewed.

On top of that, Sony has mentioned very little about the workstation's assitance to the PS3 console as well as the RSX processor. These two are still in the dark. This console is being based on related specs and the usual, but not surprisingly, hypothetical solutions. Unitl these two are out in the light, my final judgement will not be made until then. But unitl then, I will say that Sony has the greater chance to reaching this spot than that of the Microsoft from what I have seen thus far.

[Raijin]

I wonder what will they show for Killzone PS3 in TGS? I do expect Killzone 2 to be there. So they might not show the third one to keep the focus on the next game. That is why I think K2 didn’t appear at E3.

hmmm……..

I dont think Killzone will be at the TGS mainly because it is more for japanese editors to show thier games rather european ou american's ones...

I'm pretty sure some new games will be presented by the japanese companies (maybe a Ridge Racer game...).

[Junox50]

I wonder what will they show for Killzone PS3 in TGS? I do expect Killzone 2 to be there. So they might not show the third one to keep the focus on the next game. That is why I think K2 didn’t appear at E3.

hmmm……..

I dont think Killzone will be at the TGS mainly because it is more for japanese editors to show thier games rather european ou american's ones...

I'm pretty sure some new games will be presented by the japanese companies (maybe a Ridge Racer game...).

Halo 2 was at the TGS last year, was it not?

[GTShotoKen]

I wonder what will they show for Killzone PS3 in TGS? I do expect Killzone 2 to be there. So they might not show the third one to keep the focus on the next game. That is why I think K2 didn’t appear at E3.

hmmm……..

I don't think that Killzone will appear for 3 reasons.

1. The japanese gaming market shows very little interest in FPS games. Halo 2 may have been at TGS last year, but the booth got little attention.

2. The devs at Guerrilla are going to be the busiest game devs on the planet until Killzone for the PS3 gets finished because it is carrying an insane amount of expectations on its shoulders. They also need to finish their actual game engine too.

3. I don't think Guerrilla is even targeting the Japanese market for Killzone.

When are we gonna see anything about Killzone 2 anyways? I would have though Gamespot or IGN would have flown over to Europe to get the scope. Why show Killzone 3 before Killzone 2 anyways?

[Raijin]

I wonder what will they show for Killzone PS3 in TGS? I do expect Killzone 2 to be there. So they might not show the third one to keep the focus on the next game. That is why I think K2 didn’t appear at E3.

hmmm……..

I dont think Killzone will be at the TGS mainly because it is more for japanese editors to show thier games rather european ou american's ones...

I'm pretty sure some new games will be presented by the japanese companies (maybe a Ridge Racer game...).

Halo 2 was at the TGS last year, was it not?
No idea... however, I don't think Halo is the type of the game that could interested japanese gamers, so as Killzone and other european games.

[Raijin]

I wonder what will they show for Killzone PS3 in TGS? I do expect Killzone 2 to be there. So they might not show the third one to keep the focus on the next game. That is why I think K2 didn’t appear at E3.

hmmm……..

I don't think that Killzone will appear for 3 reasons.

1. The japanese gaming market shows very little interest in FPS games. Halo 2 may have been at TGS last year, but the booth got little attention.

2. The devs at Guerrilla are going to be the busiest game devs on the planet until Killzone for the PS3 gets finished because it is carrying an insane amount of expectations on its shoulders. They also need to finish their actual game engine too.

3. I don't think Guerrilla is even targeting the Japanese market for Killzone.

When are we gonna see anything about Killzone 2 anyways? I would have though Gamespot or IGN would have flown over to Europe to get the scope. Why show Killzone 3 before Killzone 2 anyways?

I absolutely agree with these statements and especially the second one. Everyone has to be aware that the developers need a lot of time to reach this level of details presented in the E3 demo footage. It will take years to have a perfect game running on this engine.

Additionally, do you remember how much time did it take to develop this first Killzone game? Something like 3 years and finally, the fact is this game was too ambitious for the PS2 hardware... So at least, expect this delay for Killzone 3.

[GTShotoKen]

I absolutely agree with these statements and especially the second one. Everyone has to be aware that the developers need a lot of time to reach this level of details presented in the E3 demo footage. It will take years to have a perfect game running on this engine.

Additionally, do you remember how much time did it take to develop this first Killzone game? Something like 3 years and finally, the fact is this game was too ambitious for the PS2 hardware... So at least, expect this delay for Killzone 3.

Actually, The games development cycle was pretty average for a PS2 game. What took so long was that they spent many years dedicated to just researching the PS2 hardware.

I see the first Killzone as a technical demo in many ways because the devs had this super powerful game engine that could completely max out the PS2, but they just didn't have time to use its power in the right places or to maximze the game's use of the engine.

[Z]

When are we gonna see anything about Killzone 2 anyways? I would have though Gamespot or IGN would have flown over to Europe to get the scope. Why show Killzone 3 before Killzone 2 anyways?
K2 is scheduled for release on PS2 in 2006.

The reason why show K3 before K2, is that it is a next-gen game. There was the unveiling of ‘the’ next gen console. What did you expect? ;)

in any case, keep in mind that Sony has its own Playstation Event. I also expect a special PS3 Event a couple of months before launch. that is where every nook and cranny will be spilled and put on fire!

[Viper]

Good point. They didn't show Killzone 3. They showed a demo of what they'd like to achieve. Neither game has been displayed. That would be dumb as can be to show KZ3 looking absolutely stunning for PS3 to millions around the world and then announce, oh yeah, we have KZ2 for PS2 coming out about the same time.

[GTShotoKen]

Good point. They didn't show Killzone 3. They showed a demo of what they'd like to achieve. Neither game has been displayed. That would be dumb as can be to show KZ3 looking absolutely stunning for PS3 to millions around the world and then announce, oh yeah, we have KZ2 for PS2 coming out about the same time.

If what was shown was indicative of KZ3 instead of KZ2. Guerrilla would still be Killing the hype for their second title in someways because the situation you explained is sort of what is going on now.

You see nothing of KZ2 before or during the conference, but you see all of this stunning footage of what the devs want to achieve with the third title.

The only way I can think of hype not being diverted is if KZ2 is being developed for the PSP instead of the PS2.

Again, this is all subject to change based on the fact if what was shown was to be apart of KZ2, or if KZ2 would be going to the PSP.

I'm just racking my brain on this because the devs said before that KZ2 would not go to the PS3.

[dantruon]

Xenos is supposedly more capable than the RSX

That is very misleading statement because we dont have a complete spec for the RSX and what you are saying is just foolish to say the least. Both the RSX and the Xenos will have strength and weaknesses but without the complete specification is it very difficult to compare them for now. Statement likes your and others are very misleading.

[The_One]

Xenos is supposedly more capable than the RSX

That is very misleading statement because we dont have a complete spec for the RSX and what you are saying is just foolish to say the least. Both the RSX and the Xenos will have strength and weaknesses but without the complete specification is it very difficult to compare them for now. Statement likes your and others are very misleading. C'mon people! Don't just pick on me! HELP!!
Okay, before anyone else starts flaming me about this point, let me point something out to you people:
the word "supposedly".

'nuff said :roll:.

[Domination]

Microsoft having some capabilities better than the others, I can understand. But, I'm not convinced in the least that they'll have the more capable console/GPU if they are launching much earlier than the others. The sole purpose of that is many of tasks not being as acheivable in a shorter, yet demanding, time as that of another with a more flexible schedule. But that's marketing, and I uderstand that. It is Microsoft, as well as any other competitors', duty to make their product seem more capable to the consumer. So, of course you're going to hear a lot of positives related to their product while down sizing everyone elses. It would be silly of any competitor to make their product any less capable than the other unless they're looking to die an early death.

As as said awhile back, if you aren't confident in your own product, neither will your fanbase.

[slider]

The strange thing is it seemed that for a while MS thought it'd have a less capable machine. Maybe it was all the talk of Cell teraflops that they bought into. Now it seems the common view outside of fanboys is that the difference won't be that great between the the PS3 and 360... (PS3 still superior though :D )

But this may be a corollary of the 360 being much closer to launch - people have more tangible stuff to think about.

On the other hand I think PS3 is way more of an unknown quantity than the 360. This is all dreamer stuff but if I was able to change the PS3 specs & still remain relatively realistic it'd have to involve making all the 512 Mb's XDR, upping the clock speed of the Cell + activating the 8th SPE! Where everyone is unsighted is the RSX - if there is a 6 month delay between launches I don't think we can guarantee RSX superiority. Nvidia & ATI seem to have taken totally different philosophies on their GPU's (for a change!).

I think I'll have to stick to the 360 is slightly more efficient view for now given that we know that much less about the PS3.

[Z]

both GPUs will be more similar than different. I don’t expect any big difference in their performance. The key point here is Cell. One of those GPUs will have the huge advantage of working with Cell. And that would be the differentiating aspect. If PS3 switched RSX with ATI’s, I still see the same outcome.

About Killzone; it is true that they didn’t say it was the third chapter. If they did, that would be the mistake Viper talked about. That is why they won’t show both footages simultaneously
Now the demo shown actually helps boosting K2.

[GTShotoKen]

About Killzone; it is true that they didn’t say it was the third chapter. If they did, that would be the mistake Viper talked about. That is why they won’t show both footages simultaneously
Now the demo shown actually helps boosting K2.

Maybe. :)

But I guess it is too early (and there is too little information) to worry about this right this minute.

I am still anxious to see how Guerrilla handles these two titles though.

Coming in to the next title, I want to hear the enemy speak in their native Helghian language, since they have a very noticeable accent, and you will only be able to understand them if a character, such as Hakha, translates for you or if you play as that character.

One thing is for sure. I don't want Guerrilla to let their impressive PS2 engine to go to waste. They need to make a game that shows to maximum potential of the PS2.

[Ducey]

My biggest gripe (if it can be called such) with current gen tech, is that complex effects such as fire, water and smoke (I feel the word volumetric will pop up) had never been accurately represented.

But looking at that... wow. I watched it quite a few times and marvelled, MARVELLED I tell you, at the smoke, the lighting, the shadows. Everything.

This next generation is going to be a leap of proportions never before seen. Im so truly excited to be around at this time.

10 Years ago I wouldnt have imagined this sort of thing to be possible for at least 20 or 30. When playstation first came out it was the bees knees, the ps2 shattered my perceptions. This is bigger than both combined.

I dont care what console you prefer (if any), next gen will knock you down, steal your wallet, and you'll thank it.

P.S I wholly believe that next year will be the heralding of the HD era.

[Junox50]

About Killzone; it is true that they didn’t say it was the third chapter. If they did, that would be the mistake Viper talked about. That is why they won’t show both footages simultaneously
Now the demo shown actually helps boosting K2.

Maybe. :)

But I guess it is too early (and there is too little information) to worry about this right this minute.

I am still anxious to see how Guerrilla handles these two titles though.

Coming in to the next title, I want to hear the enemy speak in their native Helghian language, since they have a very noticeable accent, and you will only be able to understand them if a character, such as Hakha, translates for you or if you play as that character.

One thing is for sure. I don't want Guerrilla to let their impressive PS2 engine to go to waste. They need to make a game that shows to maximum potential of the PS2.

They should make the characters more interesting and not so stereotypical. I hope the next Killzone will provide some interesting characters.

I would like to see the Halghast speak in their own language as well, that would be cool.

[Z]

I would like to see the Halghast speak in their own language as well, that would be cool.
Naaah. I want to understand everything the Hellgast say (I love the red-eyed freaks!). and they already have a distinct accent. Also, I got a bad experience with a RTS game called Goblin Commander. All conversations were voiced. Thing is they were in Goblin! So you had to read the text to understand a word. That really was confusing for me; how can you waist time and effort on recording Gibberish and then expect gamers to read all the text instead of listening?

[GTShotoKen]

I would like to see the Halghast speak in their own language as well, that would be cool.
Naaah. I want to understand everything the Hellgast say (I love the red-eyed freaks!). and they already have a distinct accent. Also, I got a bad experience with a RTS game called Goblin Commander. All conversations were voiced. Thing is they were in Goblin! So you had to read the text to understand a word. That really was confusing for me; how can you waist time and effort on recording Gibberish and then expect gamers to read all the text instead of listening?

You don't have to read text. The Helghast never said anything interesting, so you can have them speak their own language during battle or in their different bases.

Like I said before, have a character like Hakha on your team whom is a spy for the Helghast army that can translate what they say to you when the enemy speaks of important information. Also you can play as the Helghast spy to enfiltrate Helghast occupied territory, then by which the Helgian speech will change to English, but with their Helghian accent since you can now understand them.

I also hope that with the next title, there will be many more different variations of the Helghast troops.

[Domination]

The strange thing is it seemed that for a while MS thought it'd have a less capable machine. Maybe it was all the talk of Cell teraflops that they bought into. Now it seems the common view outside of fanboys is that the difference won't be that great between the the PS3 and 360... (PS3 still superior though :D )

But this may be a corollary of the 360 being much closer to launch - people have more tangible stuff to think about.

On the other hand I think PS3 is way more of an unknown quantity than the 360. This is all dreamer stuff but if I was able to change the PS3 specs & still remain relatively realistic it'd have to involve making all the 512 Mb's XDR, upping the clock speed of the Cell + activating the 8th SPE! Where everyone is unsighted is the RSX - if there is a 6 month delay between launches I don't think we can guarantee RSX superiority. Nvidia & ATI seem to have taken totally different philosophies on their GPU's (for a change!).

I think I'll have to stick to the 360 is slightly more efficient view for now given that we know that much less about the PS3.

I really don't see how that's so when Microsoft claimed a teraflop themselves. The only difference this time is Sony leaping higher than expected after those numbers were first claimed. There is also a bit more that hasn't yet been exposed.

[julps31]

I'm pretty sure MS did say they did reach a Teraflop with the 360. I don't beleive either. But I don't know how close they'll be. Its been said many times that they'll be so close that we wouldn't focus on the graphical difference.

[Z]

oh yeah, MS claimed 1TFolp alright. I remeber that clearly as I was stunned by this. Sony didn't respond, things got tense. then at E3 Sony said "we double that. HA!" and then Allard was 'doing' the 360 on the show flour...

or mabe that was in a dream?

in anycase, MS did claim that.

[.®]

wow that's so weird. i had that exact same dream.

[julps31]

I just got my new issue of PSM and they pretty much sum up all the quesions I had about Killzone at E3. Heres the info-

Here's the deal: None of the game footage was taken from software running on systems using the final PS3 graphics chip, the reality synthesizer (RSX). As of early June, developers have just received development kits that have a single NVIDIA GPU near the power of the RSX. Most of the game footage at E3 came from "alpha" systems, which are basically custom IBM PCs containing an early Cell processor and two Nvidia 6800GT graphics cards working together in SLI configuration. The most stunning demo, Killzone PS3, was from the actual game engine running on an alpha kit- at less than five frames per second. The footage was sped up to 60fps in post production."

A couple of trailers were simply pre-rendered using textures and other visual elements intended for the final game."

What do you think about this? Is it possible with the RSX or just not going to happen?

[GTShotoKen]

When Sony said that the games were made to spec, does that mean even though the demo's shown at E3 were speed up in post production; the actual engines will run fine when put on the final hardware?

I hope that Guerrilla isn't just shooting for 30 fps with their next-gen engine like many 360 devs are. They already got steep backlash for the Choppy framerate issues of the first Killzone. They need to make their engines run at 60 FPS.

Well then again, the MotorStorm demo look just as impressive as the Killzone demo and racing games need to run at high framerates, so I guess these games are sure to run well when the final hardware is sent out.

I am just hoping that no frames-per-second or image quality will have to be lost when the Final Hardware is sent out.

Sony and Nvidia really need to make sure that the RSX is up to snuff. 8)

[stanDarsh]

I just got my new issue of PSM and they pretty much sum up all the quesions I had about Killzone at E3. Heres the info-

Here's the deal: None of the game footage was taken from software running on systems using the final PS3 graphics chip, the reality synthesizer (RSX). As of early June, developers have just received development kits that have a single NVIDIA GPU near the power of the RSX. Most of the game footage at E3 came from "alpha" systems, which are basically custom IBM PCs containing an early Cell processor and two Nvidia 6800GT graphics cards working together in SLI configuration. The most stunning demo, Killzone PS3, was from the actual game engine running on an alpha kit- at less than five frames per second. The footage was sped up to 60fps in post production."

A couple of trailers were simply pre-rendered using textures and other visual elements intended for the final game."

What do you think about this? Is it possible with the RSX or just not going to happen?

Seeing as that PSM issue wont be here (Australia) for at least a month, is there any chance you could scan the whole interview into your computer and post the images here?

[julps31]

I just got my new issue of PSM and they pretty much sum up all the quesions I had about Killzone at E3. Heres the info-

Here's the deal: None of the game footage was taken from software running on systems using the final PS3 graphics chip, the reality synthesizer (RSX). As of early June, developers have just received development kits that have a single NVIDIA GPU near the power of the RSX. Most of the game footage at E3 came from "alpha" systems, which are basically custom IBM PCs containing an early Cell processor and two Nvidia 6800GT graphics cards working together in SLI configuration. The most stunning demo, Killzone PS3, was from the actual game engine running on an alpha kit- at less than five frames per second. The footage was sped up to 60fps in post production."

A couple of trailers were simply pre-rendered using textures and other visual elements intended for the final game."

What do you think about this? Is it possible with the RSX or just not going to happen?

Seeing as that PSM issue wont be here (Australia) for at least a month, is there any chance you could scan the whole interview into your computer and post the images here? Too Stan Darsh-Yeah i'll get em up by tommorow morning. To gaming Guru- I don't know how many games where Cg and what not but the say Killzone was sped up...not all of the demos.

[FLCL]

I just got my new issue of PSM and they pretty much sum up all the quesions I had about Killzone at E3. Heres the info-

Here's the deal: None of the game footage was taken from software running on systems using the final PS3 graphics chip, the reality synthesizer (RSX). As of early June, developers have just received development kits that have a single NVIDIA GPU near the power of the RSX. Most of the game footage at E3 came from "alpha" systems, which are basically custom IBM PCs containing an early Cell processor and two Nvidia 6800GT graphics cards working together in SLI configuration. The most stunning demo, Killzone PS3, was from the actual game engine running on an alpha kit- at less than five frames per second. The footage was sped up to 60fps in post production."

A couple of trailers were simply pre-rendered using textures and other visual elements intended for the final game."

What do you think about this? Is it possible with the RSX or just not going to happen?

waw! that clears up a lot! finally!!

so what do we know till now?
The alpha devkits had a 2.4Ghz Cell chip, 2 Geforce6800GT in SLI connected through a lowly 4x PCI express bus, it ran Killzone at 5fps max
the new devkits contains a single geforce7800GTX

Nvidia confirmed the RSX will be a second gen G70 but for now all we know for sure is that its 550Mhz 90nm G70, the pc counterpart is the 430Mhz 110nm G7800GTX

here is G7800GTX performance in a next gen game (SM3+HDR):
http://www.elitebastards.com/hanners/g70/ue3perf_tn.png

the RSX is expected to be at least 27% faster then G70, the G70 is roughly 25% faster then 6800Ultra SLI (2cards) which in turn is 15% faster then its GT counterparts in the alpha devkits, which makes the RSX almost 65% faster then those 2 Geforce 6800 GT in SLI

This alone is enough to double the killzone frame rate to around 10fps, now its assumed that most of the demo games were running single threaded on just the PPE which was confirmed in case of heavingly sword, and since the devkit is using 4x PCI Express im sure the cell isn't assisting the GPU that much

So if we offload most of that massive vertex work to the SPEs in the final cell which is 33% faster and connected to the RSX by an awesome 35GB/s bus (very fast texture and vertex fetching as opposed to the piss poor 2GB/s of the dev kit) along with further optimisations in the code and some sacrafices with LOD they shouldnt have a problem hitting 30Fps , I recall the Guerilla guy saying they are aiming for 720p first

Seems to me Guerilla is making its own engine, which is better then using a universal one like unreal3, I don't expect 60fps for killzone, especially not from the 5fps of the devkit engine, by the way the e3 video was 30fps its fine with such detals as long as its stable and doesnt dive below, the first killzone was very unstable, it dropped a lot as opposed to Halo which is also 30fps

[Z]

This isn’t surprising. ‘done to specs’ and ‘final look’ means that this is how they game will look when finished and most importantly when the hardware is finalized. They had to do without PS3.

P.S. for me, MotorStorm is technically a little more impressive than Killzone, despite the later having more action. 

[Gounmckuber]

If true this is great news. :D Hopefully those graphics are a reality on ps3. I also dont mind 30fps as long as that 30 is unflinching no matter what happens on screen. Lets hope they get a solid 30 with no drops anywhere

[slider]

I really don't see how that's so when Microsoft claimed a teraflop themselves. The only difference this time is Sony leaping higher than expected after those numbers were first claimed. There is also a bit more that hasn't yet been exposed.

Domination: Sorry, slightly off-topic and an unnecessary discussion so far before launches: but thats the impression I (& I'm sure a few others) picked up from MS's Nintendo-a-like quotes "it's not about power but, ease of development, and quality of gameplay".

You're defo right about the un-exposed stuff though. The stuff thats been shown with the G70 launch - has any of it been comparable to PS3 KZ?

[julps31]

Okay heres one of the pages from PSM (Its not the one I wanted because my comp is acting stupid). I'll scan the other one later.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psmscan1.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psmscan3.jpg

EDIT: Okay I got the image up but its not the best scan. But you should be able to read it.

[FLCL]

the scans are alright, the size isnt, can you read it?! :)

[julps31]

the scans are alright, the size isnt, can you read it?! :)Uhh...well I know what they say so I guess I can lol. I'll resize and repost. I'll be right back.

EDIT: Okay I resized both.

[GTShotoKen]

:lol: So the whole point of the controller redesign was because of copy infrengment issues. :lol:

I thought there was more to it. :lol:

Well, at least Sony has a legitimate reason for changing the conroller design.

[julps31]

:lol: So the whole point of the controller redesign was because of copy infrengment issues. :lol:

I thought there was more to it. :lol:

Well, at least Sony has a legitimate reason for changing the conroller design.Ha, ha...I didn't even read that part. I just skipped right over it. Well that explains a lot. I wonder what type of shock the controller will have than.

[FLCL]

:lol: So the whole point of the controller redesign was because of copy infrengment issues. :lol:

I thought there was more to it. :lol:

Well, at least Sony has a legitimate reason for changing the conroller design.Ha, ha...I didn't even read that part. I just skipped right over it. Well that explains a lot. I wonder what type of shock the controller will have than.

can you post the other pages? :oops:

[TEEDA]

Okay heres one of the pages from PSM (Its not the one I wanted because my comp is acting stupid). I'll scan the other one later.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psmscan1.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psmscan3.jpg

EDIT: Okay I got the image up but its not the best scan. But you should be able to read it.

do you have the second page please :)

and if there is a dvd do they have the entire conference in HD ? :)


:roll: :roll:

[The_One]

Do Not Quote Images. Thank you for your co-operation. (I'm not talking to myself, I'm talking to you guys above ^)

[TEEDA]

Do Not Quote Images. Thank you for your co-operation. (I'm not talking to myself, I'm talking to you guys above ^)

Okay , sorry mate for this little accident .

I found early conceptual design of Killzone ideas from a french designer who is working in Guerilla studios now .

Xavier Marquis (Concept designer and illustrator)


I changed of country during the 2003 year to Amsterdam in Holland. The Guerrilla Games's company was my new house. I released in 2004 a video game : Shellshock Nam' 67 (Marketting / illustration).

Today I live with my son Owen in Paris, France, and work for Guerrilla Games as Illustrator and concept designer for the Killzone Univers "

here are the concepts .

http://www.xavier-marquis.com/g/79.jpg
http://www.xavier-marquis.com/g/72.jpg
http://www.xavier-marquis.com/g/69.jpg

his website with more interesting stuffs
http://www.xavier-marquis.com/page1.php

[The_One]

Nice find TEEDA ;). Those are some sweet concept images.

[Raijin]

What? There's a DVD in the Mag? With the PS3's conference?

[julps31]

:lol: So the whole point of the controller redesign was because of copy infrengment issues. :lol:

I thought there was more to it. :lol:

Well, at least Sony has a legitimate reason for changing the conroller design.Ha, ha...I didn't even read that part. I just skipped right over it. Well that explains a lot. I wonder what type of shock the controller will have than.

can you post the other pages? :oops:Yeah i'll post em. I'm new at this image hosting thing lol. I try to upload them and it resizes it. I don't even know how those other pics didn't get resized. Oh and i'll post the MGS 4 artical in that section because they reveal what no where to run and no where to hide means. I'll edit this post when I get the image thing figured out.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psm10-2.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psmscan3.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psmscan1.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psm14.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psm16.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psm18.jpg

[FLCL]

thanks mate, PSM managed to answer many of our questions, particularly the following:

- The alpha devkit was using 2 Geforce 6800GT in SLI, the new one uses the G70
- Killzone was in-game engine running at 5fps on the alpha devkit
- I-8 and Warhawk were realtime on the alpha devkit
- GT vision was just a hi-res GT4 engine, its just a tech demo not the final game
- They were forced to changee controller because of the copyright lawsuit

anyway at the top of the third page (the one with the controller) has a paragraph discussing the RSX pipelines, the preceding page is still missing, the first page of the article i guess, any chance of posting it? :wink:

[julps31]

thanks mate, PSM managed to answer many of our questions, particularly the following:

- The alpha devkit was using 2 Geforce 6800GT in SLI, the new one uses the G70
- Killzone was in-game engine running at 5fps on the alpha devkit
- I-8 and Warhawk were realtime on the alpha devkit
- GT vision was just a hi-res GT4 engine, its just a tech demo not the final game
- They were forced to changed controller because of they copyright lawsuit

anyway at the top of the third page (the one with the controller) has a paragraph discussing the RSX pipelines, the preceding page it still missing, the first page of the article i guess , any chance of posting it? :wink:Yeah man. I'll get it. it was just a bad scan so I didn't post it and I didn't want to rescan at the time. Ok I pulled a good scan. Here you go. Glad I could be of service lol.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psm08.jpg

[FLCL]

thanks again! lol i knew i was pushing my luck :D

[thedynamite007]

Do Not Quote Images. Thank you for your co-operation. (I'm not talking to myself, I'm talking to you guys above ^)

Okay , sorry mate for this little accident .

I found early conceptual design of Killzone ideas from a french designer who is working in Guerilla studios now .

Xavier Marquis (Concept designer and illustrator)


I changed of country during the 2003 year to Amsterdam in Holland. The Guerrilla Games's company was my new house. I released in 2004 a video game : Shellshock Nam' 67 (Marketting / illustration).

Today I live with my son Owen in Paris, France, and work for Guerrilla Games as Illustrator and concept designer for the Killzone Univers "

here are the concepts .

http://www.xavier-marquis.com/g/79.jpg
http://www.xavier-marquis.com/g/72.jpg
http://www.xavier-marquis.com/g/69.jpg

-Edited by moderator - Please don't repost images when quoting someone, unless your post specifically talks about that image.

his website with more interesting stuffs
http://www.xavier-marquis.com/page1.php

Oh my! I hope that big mech like robot will appear in killzone ps3 and it will be playable. By the way how did you know that art was for killzone well in fact it was not specified?

[TEEDA]

Oh my! I hope that big mech like robot will appear in killzone ps3 and it will be playable. By the way how did you know that art was for killzone well in fact it was not specified ?

Because it looks like an earlier version of killzone doesn' it ? lol
and also this Xavier Marquis is responsible for Killzone art .
and is already working on killzone PsP .
you can see his name here .
http://www.playfrance.com/news/images/675,,2,37/zoom/2182.jpg

[TEEDA]

thanks mate, PSM managed to answer many of our questions, particularly the following:

- The alpha devkit was using 2 Geforce 6800GT in SLI, the new one uses the G70
- Killzone was in-game engine running at 5fps on the alpha devkit
- I-8 and Warhawk were realtime on the alpha devkit
- GT vision was just a hi-res GT4 engine, its just a tech demo not the final game
- They were forced to changed controller because of they copyright lawsuit

anyway at the top of the third page (the one with the controller) has a paragraph discussing the RSX pipelines, the preceding page it still missing, the first page of the article i guess , any chance of posting it? :wink:Yeah man. I'll get it. it was just a bad scan so I didn't post it and I didn't want to rescan at the time. Ok I pulled a good scan. Here you go. Glad I could be of service lol.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psm08.jpg

thanx mate for those scans

[Domination]

I really don't see how that's so when Microsoft claimed a teraflop themselves. The only difference this time is Sony leaping higher than expected after those numbers were first claimed. There is also a bit more that hasn't yet been exposed.

Domination: Sorry, slightly off-topic and an unnecessary discussion so far before launches: but thats the impression I (& I'm sure a few others) picked up from MS's Nintendo-a-like quotes "it's not about power but, ease of development, and quality of gameplay".

You're defo right about the un-exposed stuff though. The stuff thats been shown with the G70 launch - has any of it been comparable to PS3 KZ?

It doesn't even stop at the G70; I'm almost sure of it. I am still waiting for
the workstation's unveiling and the RSX in full. Just give it time. Then
make your judgment.

EDIT:

It seems I was dead accurate on the functionality of the wireless controller.

[Z]

First off, many thanks to julps31 for the scans. I am a subscriber to PSM for years, yet sometimes, some issues do not arrive. So you can imagine how I felt when I didn’t get June’s eagerly anticipated issue. Thanks again, you saved a lot of hair on my head from getting pulled out…well, at least what’s left that is.

They were forced to change controller because of the copyright lawsuit


not really. The lawsuit is specifically towards the rumble mechanism in particular. Change that and you’re fine. I say they changed it because the want to establish PS3 as a ‘new’ device, especially when everybody else seems like are copying it- both next gen systems stand vertically, both support DVD playback, both online, X2’s controller is a DS clone, etc. If you look at PS3, only the name is reused and the trademark controller button names and position, everything else is new; inside, outside, style, architecture, etc.

but if we want to talk about the controller, let us go the controller thread.

- as far as I know, Killzone PSP is still a rumor. Nothing was announced.

-finally, I just got the July PSM issue, the one with MGS4 on the cover. I take that your scans are from the previous issue? I didn’t get June’s issue in the mail!

[TEEDA]

First off, many thanks to julps31 for the scans. I am a subscriber to PSM for years, yet sometimes, some issues do not arrive. So you can imagine how I felt when I didn’t get June’s eagerly anticipated issue. Thanks again, you saved a lot of hair on my head from getting pulled out…well, at least what’s left that is.

They were forced to change controller because of the copyright lawsuit


not really. The lawsuit is specifically towards the rumble mechanism in particular. Change that and you’re fine. I say they changed it because the want to establish PS3 as a ‘new’ device, especially when everybody else seems like are copying it- both next gen systems stand vertically, both support DVD playback, both online, X2’s controller is a DS clone, etc. If you look at PS3, only the name is reused and the trademark controller button names and position, everything else is new; inside, outside, style, architecture, etc.

but if we want to talk about the controller, let us go the controller thread.

- as far as I know, Killzone PSP is still a rumor. Nothing was announced.

-finally, I just got the July PSM issue, the one with MGS4 on the cover. I take that your scans are from the previous issue? I didn’t get June’s issue in the mail!

is it the US or the Uk one ?

[raVen]

I got the july issue with metal gear on it june 5 I always get them a month early so im expected the issue he scanned to come july 5th which would be the august issue

[julps31]

I'm glad everybody apreciated my scans lol. I'm happy to help. This is the August (E3) issue. I just received it in the mail on thursday. True Crime: New York City is on the cover. Nice issue. They even reveal the details on MGS 4 (what the new concept means). I might post that artical in the MGS 4 section later on.

[Z]

is it the US or the Uk one ?

US.
by the way, is there a UK version? I don't think so. I think PSM2 is a whole different mag.

[nesman]

I can't believe Killzone was rendered in real-time. :shock:

[jaxmkii]

I can't believe Killzone was rendered in real-time. :shock: @ 5fps i dont know guys think they can speed it up to 32 with out cheesing out? :?

[The_One]

I can't believe Killzone was rendered in real-time. :shock: @ 5fps i dont know guys think they can speed it up to 32 with out cheesing out? :? 30FPS shouldn't be a problem, but those thinking that they can squeeze out a 60FPS game on a next-gen console on the first try is most likely dreaming. I really don't see 60FPS happening for ANY first-gen games, not just Killzone.

[CrumCon]

Could anyone confirm MororStorm was done in real-time like Killzone?

[FLCL]

I can't believe Killzone was rendered in real-time. :shock: @ 5fps i dont know guys think they can speed it up to 32 with out cheesing out? :? 30FPS shouldn't be a problem, but those thinking that they can squeeze out a 60FPS game on a next-gen console on the first try is most likely dreaming. I really don't see 60FPS happening for ANY first-gen games, not just Killzone.

why is that? the Final Fantasy tech demo was running at 60fps, it all depends on the developers approach! expect to see many less detailed launch games that runs at a perfect 60Fps

[dantruon]

With such graphical prowess, i dont think Killzone for ps3 will be a launch title since it require lots of work to get the real game play visual to match the E3 trailers. So when will Killzone hit the stores? I reckon in fall 2007

[thedynamite007]

Oh my! I hope that big mech like robot will appear in killzone ps3 and it will be playable. By the way how did you know that art was for killzone well in fact it was not specified ?

Because it looks like an earlier version of killzone doesn' it ? lol
and also this Xavier Marquis is responsible for Killzone art .
and is already working on killzone PsP .
you can see his name here .
http://www.playfrance.com/news/images/675,,2,37/zoom/2182.jpg

I just hope and I REALLY HOPE that that big mech thing will appear in the Killzone PS3. I really hope and pray

-Edited by Moderator - Repeat, do not repost images when quoting someone unless your post directly reflects that of the image. Second warning!

[KKS]

I also dont think 60fps will be possible with that graphics. Maybe 30fps considering the dev kit has 2.4ghz cell and geforce6800U in SLI which is clearly worse than G70 for upcoming games. And you have to remember that RSX will be running at 550mhz while G70 is running only at 430mhz and they share the same architecture so that frequency difference can be directly translated to performance difference.

[rpgamer_2k5]

Well you need to acknowledge that the final PS3 is far more powerful than that Dev't kit. Not only is there a 2.4Ghz vs 3.2Ghz difference but even the G70 is significantly more powerful than the 6800 SLI. The Cell did not hardly do any work in the graphics compartment since the bandwidth is lacking.

I'm quite confident that we'll be seeing Killzone at 60 fps since that is what the demo at E3 was set at.

[Z]

The problem is that we Base our assumptions Of what we know today. Once some people said the Killzone demo Was totally bogus. Then they Agreed on it being done to spec. Now that we have confirmation they believe that It is possible running in 5 fps. Now they also agree that it is possible to run on 30 fps. Yet they still see at 60 fps as impossible.

Now whether the final game would end up on 30 frames per second or 60 frames per second the point now wanna give here is that we shouldn’t be basing all our assumptions only at what we know today. The coming next generation systems are indeed “next gen”. If you think about it only a couple years ago nobody thought sell was possible. Everybody doubt that the one teraflop PS3 target. If you check the first pages of that CG in game thread, You’ll be surprised to fiI'll give it credit for being able to render it at all. 5 fps is actually surprising but I don't see it going to 5 fps on 75 % hardware to 30-60 fps on final.

nd that that the best assumptions Was that the next generation systems will be able to do Doom 3 and half life 2 , and only that.
Of course I am not saying that the next generation of systems will do miracles. I am saying it is time to be open to the possibilities of new things that we do not know today. It isn’t accurate it. Based on assumptions on the knowledge we have off the systems today. The next generation console as open better than the highest PCs at the time.

RSX blew everyone away. Cell Is a monster. I think the final hardware design with all these equipment working together will be able to push the 60 frames per second. And I also reiterate Epic’s Statement that this is only the beginning.

Finally I do agree that It’s slim chance that Killzone will be a launch title. my best assumption is that the game will be at least six months after the PSC launch

I'll give it credit for being able to render it at all. 5 fps is actually surprising but I don't see it going to 5 fps on 75 % hardware to 30-60 fps on final.


Yes, the devkits ran at 75% of the power of the final hardware. But what makes you think that that demo maxed out the devkits? What makes you think that the demo squeezed every last bit of juice of the devkits?
Development teams around the world still have a year to the PS3 launch. Put in mind that not all of them are aiming for the launch window. They also have access to the final devkits and final specs before the launch of the PS3. Barely devkits and their lead builds do not have any indications of the systems fall potential. As a matter of fact it’s the opposite thy give you an idea from where to start expecting the power will be like.


P.S. I did this with speech recognition, so if you notice anything weird you will know why
:D

[Leedogg]

I didn't even know a game could be run smoothly at 5 fps. Because if it did there had to be some lag. The demo had to be running at 15-20 fps. Oh yea about that Doom 3 and Half-Life being run on next-generation consoles. XBox has a game called Doom 3 out. :wink:

[solidus]

I didn't even know a game could be run smoothly at 5 fps. Because if it did there had to be some lag. The demo had to be running at 15-20 fps.
It was rendered @5fps with the Alpha kits and speeded up afterwards. Nothing can run smoothly at 5fps!

[CrumCon]

Could any confirm MotorStorm was done real-time or not??

please cause it's the best of show to me!

[Z]

my guess is that it was the same; running around 5fps then sped up for the show. another demo that is as good is the F1 demo. photorealistic? hell it looked like it. :shock:

[FLCL]

my guess is that it was the same; running around 5fps then sped up for the show. another demo that is as good is the F1 demo. photorealistic? hell it looked like it. :shock:

yes F1 was photorealistic but with the most jagged edges! :wink:

[Domination]

I didn't even know a game could be run smoothly at 5 fps. Because if it did there had to be some lag. The demo had to be running at 15-20 fps. Oh yea about that Doom 3 and Half-Life being run on next-generation consoles. XBox has a game called Doom 3 out. :wink:

That's very true. But, before that game was ever officially annouced or
released publically for the console, many could not comprehend the
possibility two years ago. As I said before, most consumers are used to
video games looking exactly like how they are labeled; video games.

[Red_Eyes]

Oh, 60 frames per second is very possible. Just wait. Sony and Guerilla will shock the world once again at Tokyo Game Show.

[raVen]

Oh, 60 frames per second is very possible. Just wait. Sony and Guerilla will shock the world once again at Tokyo Game Show.

Preach on, preacher!

[cpiasminc]

The use of the word "sped up" is just a poor choice of words. What it means is that they are not able to get better than 5 fps in reality. What they do instead is lock the update rate to 30 fps (not 60! No one encodes 60 fps VIDEO! That's just stupid) -- so even running at 5 fps, the movements and time steps for everything during play is stepped as if the framerate is 30. On each frame render, a screen capture is dumped and saved to disk. The screen captures are all saved as numbered image files and then compiled into a video from those numbered images (a lot of tools will do this in one shot for you). Nothing new. Pretty much ALL in-game footage is captured that way. Even when games can run faster than 30 fps, we often still lock to 30 (or 29.97, rather) because it's just more suitable for video formats.

the Final Fantasy tech demo was running at 60fps
Which FF tech demo were YOU watching? That had 2 or 3 hitches where it clearly stalled for at least a quarter of a second or so. And there were plenty of points (particularly as the camera zoomed out and you got a full city view) where it was clearly running below 30 fps. I'm surprised that people have trouble seeing these things when I could spot them even without my glasses on (my eyes are -8.50). Do people just wear rose-coloured glasses when they go to E3 or something or have I just gotten too accustomed to being a wet blanket?

[NeoPlayStation]

Good explanation, cpiasminc.

Do you believe that Killzone Demo could be running at 5 fps in the game engine?

Isn't just graphics, but animation. The animation is very impressive.

I believe that is real. But my eyes don't. :D

[cpiasminc]

Do you believe that Killzone Demo could be running at 5 fps in the game engine?

Isn't just graphics, but animation. The animation is very impressive.
Yeah, well, that's what made me say, no way in hell is it realtime. Everything except the characters looked reasonable. One thing people forget is that when animating characters, it's not the polygon count that matters -- it's the vertex count. And characters are always broken up into separate packets by primary bone... And then, there's the hair and fuzz, which is something that doesn't share vertices much if at all.

On top of that, the facial animation was pretty heavy... Either extremely high number of facial bones, or several variations of phoneme morph targets.

Lighting-wise, and environment, nothing looks impossible for 5 fps. The particles are way over the top, but that's mostly a fillrate issue, so they might just be assuming that RSX has ridiculous fillrate. The same could be said of the clouds -- clouds are basically just done as particle systems that don't move... but yeah, fillrate eaters they are. And yes, any type of alpha blending effects eat through fillrate faster than you can say "pixel."

There were however a few things in some screen captures that seemed to throw it off -- like noise in the shadows, which was conveniently characteristic of Monte Carlo renders. If I'm supposed to believe that it came out of a game engine at any frame rate, I'd also have to be told that it got a whole lot of video post-processing and retouching.

[Red_Eyes]

And once again, people underestimate the power of PS3, even after it's been confirmed to run real time at 5 frames per second, people would still choose to disbelieve it because they can not handle the truth. Lol.

[Don _Shqiptar]

Well who can blame them it looked like high class CG.
I still cant belive that it actually was real time :o

[cpiasminc]

And once again, people underestimate the power of PS3
As I've said many times before, I'd rather underestimate and be wrong about it than expect the world and be wrong about it. The former at least means I'll be pleasantly surprised. The latter means my anticipations will be for naught.

even after it's been confirmed to run real time at 5 frames per second
I'd like to know where this purported "confirmation" came from.

people would still choose to disbelieve it because they can not handle the truth.
The "truth" that I always subscribe to is nothing ever works out so conveniently. The brighter the picture, the darker the negative, if that makes sense. I've been programming for more than 20 years now, and if there's one thing I've learned, it's that there is no such thing as a technological miracle.

[senas8]

Hey don't question cpiasminc....he is considered a God by many. ...consider yourself lucky to be in his presence. Can't you see the wisdom in this man?

[Coded-Dude]

there is no such thing as a technological miracle.

......the internet! :roll:

[FLCL]

I'd like to know where this purported "confirmation" came from.

from the latest PSM issue:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psm14.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/julphotobucket1/psmscan3.jpg

cpiasminc i respect your technical opinions and all! but even DeanoC from B3D and for those who don’t know he is a PS3 developer working on Heavenly Sword, confirmed his game as real-time with the army part sped-up he's seemed confident they reach 30fps although they are aiming for 60fps

Sony asked for 1080p for the trailer, so we provided it... Assuming all things being equal I can't see why the final game wouldn't...

FPS I'll be really disappointed if we can't keep a steady 30 at worse and would prefer 60 but given time scales 60 may not be possible (I'm personally fussy about framerate so I'll try for a steady 60fps)



Graphics and framerate are the low hanging fruit. Just threading up the animation system and procedural graphics (hair, cloth, flags etc.) will gives us a large amount of CPU time back for the game. The army need this the most.

Longer term, Physics and AI services are obvious candidates.

As for what improves?, thats a good question. The priority is to move the heavy weight stuff off the main game thread, hopefully doing this will provide lots more time for the game code. That should improve the gameplay in lots of ways.

Its in-engine but I'd be lieing to say its very playable at the moment BUT we have lots of work to do in this area. There is something like 2000 people on screen there, we have shown 500 people @ 30fps on our old PC demo (GDC2004 time). Were not currently as efficient as we were back when we did the last demo, a new more advanced shadow system and a few other changes make each bloke a bit more expensive. To be honest though, we knew we were about the change to the target platform when we made those changes so optimising for a PC engine was a bit pointless. Given the power and architecture of the target platform, it seems achievable (if a bit hard Wink )

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22971&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=80

[FLCL]

and this from the Latest OPM Uk issue

http://www.a2astudio.com/face/Phil_Real.jpg

[cpiasminc]

Hey don't question cpiasminc....he is considered a God by many. ...consider yourself lucky to be in his presence. Can't you see the wisdom in this man?
Okay... that's really a bit much. Those who consider me a "God" would reconsider if they knew me. The poor souls.

......the internet! :roll:
The miracle being? The internet is one of a thousand examples of formerly ubiquitous military technology (ARPANet) trickling down to mainstream. On top of which, it got melded together with a lot of existing technology that we'd had for years prior, and only saw a handful of advances, really. You could say the same thing about optical disc formats.

As much as you might think the uptake of the internet was fast... on a time scale, it really wasn't. The only thing that made it seem fast was the fact that it was decentralized enough that every region on the planet could independently go through its own spread.

[Coded-Dude]

Militarty to College to Mainstream but yes - miracle, I still think so......ARPANet was a network which the internet is based on, but by no means was it THE INTERNET
ARPANet was cool but very unstable(when comparted to todays network topologies)

Internet:(Dude's definition)
A global communications forum where knowledge/ignorance, hate/love, porn and virtually anything else can be accessed from almost anywhere in the world.
Thats one major fucking leap of technology.

Can't imagine life without it, I mean what would I be doing if the internet didn't exists?
Not sitting at my well paid job(supporting a networking team) talking to you through this message board.
Probably doing some manual labor out in the hot sun! 8)
Anywho, I would say optical disc was more of a revolution not a miracle.
Its was only logical that another medium besides tape be used for stoage purposes

If there were one thing that did change the world dramatically and forever it was the internet.

Just my opinion though

[cpiasminc]

but even DeanoC from B3D and for those who don’t know he is a PS3 developer working on Heavenly Sword, confirmed his game as real-time with the army part sped-up he's seemed confident they reach 30fps although they are aiming for 60fps
Nothing looked impossible to me about Heavenly Sword either. Granted, of the 3 HS videos, 2 of them looked reasonable in realtime, while the 3rd was quite obviously pre-rendered. Deano doesn't deny that either.

from the latest PSM issue:
Again, I don't buy the idea that just because they're the "official" Playstation magazine, they speak the gospel truth. All the word "official" means to me in that light is just that Sony sanctions their carrying of the "Playstation" name. I never saw anything in PSM at any point throughout its years of existence that suggests that they speculate less than any other gaming magazine.

I'm not saying I refute the possibility of 5fps in-engine. But the reason I don't entirely doubt the possibility is because there's actually quite a world of difference between what you can do at 5 fps vs. 30 fps. What I doubt is that people make the leap of faith from 5 fps to 30/60 as if it was no big deal. Faith in technology is a losing proposition.

Likewise, I don't take a magazine's guess as proof.

If there were one thing that did change the world dramatically and forever it was the internet.
Meh. I could also say the same about the microtransistor... or the computer in general. Although if you wanted to look at it as cynically as I might, you could say that the microtransistor was a miracle because it was the result of a human being using his brain.

[Coded-Dude]

Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. - Will Durant

[shadowofomioc]

I personally don't see how anyone could question the PS3's titles after seeing even Gears of War on the Xbox360!

I mean, when you look at todays games, like God of War or Halo 2 or Battlefield 2 on the PC, and then realize that even the top of the line PC's are nowhere close to as powerful as these upcoming consoles ... how can it be such an unbelievable thing from what we are seeing of the PS3 demos? HOOOWWWWW???

Especially considering that all we are using in todays console is a measily 52MB of Ram on the Xbox side with a slightly upgraded Geforce III(like) GPU, and on the PS2 the EE-GS combo that has only 4MB of V-Ram but with impressive streaming capabilities! And then look at todays massive machines. GHZ processors, 512!!!MB's of RAM, massive bus's, massive FLOP calculation potential ( say goodbye to idiot computer AI and bad physics ), massive storage ( Blu-Ray atleast ), etc. etc. I mean the leap from the PS2 to the PS3 is much much much much much higher then that of the PSX - PS2, so why is it soooooo unbelievable that we are seeing a leap in graphic capability that is on par with the leap in technology? The Xbox and PS2 are trully ancient graphical machines, yet they are still pumping out beautiful titles and hell the Xbox can even run Doom3 with impressive capabilities.

Consoles have ALWAYS had far more potential graphically then PC's. It has been the staple ever since the PSX. It does not require the best GPU's or the best processors or the highest amounts of RAM for consoles to be able to handle stride for stride what the newest PC's are doing, and this generation has us with consoles with hundreds of times more power then yesteryears and better processors, GPU's, architectures, etc. then even the best PC's.

Killzone I think was a realized in-game graphical engine that was running in high resolution. The GT Vision video was simply the GT4 engine running in High Def and High Res and look how good it looked compared to GT4.

Anyway, im just baffled as to how it all seems to impossible to some people, especially those are technically smart as cpiasminc

[O.D.S]

heres some info on killzone:

DEVELOPED BY AMSTERDAM-BASED GUERRILLA, Killzone PlayStation 3 is a military first person shooter that builds upon the graphical and gaming excellence seen on PlayStation 2. A non-linear, intense cinematic gameplay experience that combines elements from multiple gaming genres, Killzone PlayStation 3 thrusts players deeper into the conflict between the ISA and Helghast.

Set in a rich and highly interactive gameworld, Killzone PlayStation 3 utilises benchmark facial and character animation, advanced physics, destructible environments, amazing sound and special FX, immersing players in the most intense and warlike gameplay experience to date. Combining on-foot and vehicle combat across air, land and sea, with both off-line play and a customisable on-line portion, Sony is promising Killzone PlayStation 3 will revolutionise the first-person shooter for the next generation.

its not entirly new but any little info is good

[Domination]

I personally don't see how anyone could question the PS3's titles after seeing even Gears of War on the Xbox360!

I mean, when you look at todays games, like God of War or Halo 2 or Battlefield 2 on the PC, and then realize that even the top of the line PC's are nowhere close to as powerful as these upcoming consoles ... how can it be such an unbelievable thing from what we are seeing of the PS3 demos? HOOOWWWWW???

Especially considering that all we are using in todays console is a measily 52MB of Ram on the Xbox side with a slightly upgraded Geforce III(like) GPU, and on the PS2 the EE-GS combo that has only 4MB of V-Ram but with impressive streaming capabilities! And then look at todays massive machines. GHZ processors, 512!!!MB's of RAM, massive bus's, massive FLOP calculation potential ( say goodbye to idiot computer AI and bad physics ), massive storage ( Blu-Ray atleast ), etc. etc. I mean the leap from the PS2 to the PS3 is much much much much much higher then that of the PSX - PS2, so why is it soooooo unbelievable that we are seeing a leap in graphic capability that is on par with the leap in technology? The Xbox and PS2 are trully ancient graphical machines, yet they are still pumping out beautiful titles and hell the Xbox can even run Doom3 with impressive capabilities.

Consoles have ALWAYS had far more potential graphically then PC's. It has been the staple ever since the PSX. It does not require the best GPU's or the best processors or the highest amounts of RAM for consoles to be able to handle stride for stride what the newest PC's are doing, and this generation has us with consoles with hundreds of times more power then yesteryears and better processors, GPU's, architectures, etc. then even the best PC's.

Killzone I think was a realized in-game graphical engine that was running in high resolution. The GT Vision video was simply the GT4 engine running in High Def and High Res and look how good it looked compared to GT4.

Anyway, im just baffled as to how it all seems to impossible to some people, especially those are technically smart as cpiasminc

As CP said before, it's better to aim low and be wrong than the other way
around. And IMO, that philosophy makes a lot of sense if you feel that
you'll be let down come launch time.

[Z]

it's better to aim low and be wrong than the other way
aroundI don’t agree with that. Respectfully, for me that’s for the week to say.

Secondly, and ballet your opinion but when it’s confirmed buy officials sources that It ran on five frames per second Then I tend to believe that.

Now for the jump from five to 30 frames per second one has to keep in mind that all the demos shown run only on one thread. also, the devkits That were used are not as capable as the final hardware. Throughput, Processing , The rating , final GPU , etc. Of all much higher in the final hardware And the final devkits.

[cpiasminc]

Anyway, im just baffled as to how it all seems to impossible to some people, especially those are technically smart as cpiasminc
You just answered your own question. It's because people like me have experience having seen claims and then seeing the reality of things that we refuse to take anything at face value. Yeah, it's easy to just look at things like 218 GFLOPS and 24 pixel pipes and say everything will work out okay, but nothing ever goes so smoothly in real life. It's not that I don't think CELL and RSX are powerful. It's that I at least have *some* idea of how many things can go horribly wrong.

Sometimes, you get lucky. And then the other 9,999,999 times, Murphy's Law prevails. Okay, so I'm a pessimist. So sue me. I invariably expect a let-down no matter what it is.

It's also not entirely surprising that I was less negative about next-gen in general the less data came out and the less in-depth system architecture coverage there was. Yes, they're massively powerful, and yet they will also punish you for extending beyond register space. I've seen all too many real-life cases on the PC where instruction latencies cost you 97% of your performance, and 360 and CELL both seem well-suited to magnify that problem.

Secondly, and ballet your opinion but when it’s confirmed buy officials sources that It ran on five frames per second Then I tend to believe that.
Again, I ask... what is the source? A magazine, no matter how supposedly "official" they are, is not a source to me. A marketing rep is not a source. Many times, I'd have to doubt even the words of a team lead (mainly because I've seen all too many incompetent and/or totally oblivious leads before). A developer on the project, whether programmer or artist, is a valid source to me. Is there anywhere where they say who told them 5 fps in engine?

[Applefiend]

K2 is scheduled for release on PS2 in 2006.

So Killzone 2 is confirmed for PS2. Some people were saying it was headed to PSP.

Sorry to be boring but, I'd take a new Killzone on the PS2 right now, I don't want Killzone 3 any time soon. Want them to keep it, take their time on it. Give it to me christmas 2006, or even 2007.

I was one of the few huge fans of Killzone before this demo, now I'm just godsmacked.

[Domination]

it's better to aim low and be wrong than the other way
aroundI don’t agree with that. Respectfully, for me that’s for the week to say.

Secondly, and ballet your opinion but when it’s confirmed buy officials sources that It ran on five frames per second Then I tend to believe that.

Now for the jump from five to 30 frames per second one has to keep in mind that all the demos shown run only on one thread. also, the devkits That were used are not as capable as the final hardware. Throughput, Processing , The rating , final GPU , etc. Of all much higher in the final hardware And the final devkits.

Z, I kinda agree with you, but then again, I'm my own person. There are
certain things I believe and others where I'm just plain skeptical. You
should have quoted my entire response. With you quoting small parts of
what I said, it kinda takes the meaning out of context. The philosophy
that CP is trying to explain to you makes a great deal of sense IF you are
the type that feels a sense of disappointment that could possibly surface
in the end.

As I addressed before, I am my own person. I believe what is possible
through what I have experienced in the pass and to this current day.
Saying that, it would be rather difficult to disappoint me, unless absolutely
nothing said at E3 was true.

So Killzone 2 is confirmed for PS2. Some people were saying it was headed to PSP.

Sorry to be boring but, I'd take a new Killzone on the PS2 right now, I don't want Killzone 3 any time soon. Want them to keep it, take their time on it. Give it to me christmas 2006, or even 2007.

I was one of the few huge fans of Killzone before this demo, now I'm just godsmacked.

It's still in the air. I'm thinking it's for the PSP, though, since it's their
latest piece a hardware that needs an uplifting to the competition.

[Z]

So Killzone 2 is confirmed for PS2. Some people were saying it was headed to PSP.


K2 for PS2 is confirmed and will be coming out next year. a PSP game is a rumor- but a very likely one at that. Keep your fingers crossed! SOCOM and GTA for PSP turned out true :wink:

[dantruon]

I dont know why most of you guys here compare the quality of Killzone on the PS3 to Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within. Spirit Within strive for realism and lifelike characters BUT when we play games we want to play something that is not real, something is fantasy, SO I think is better to compare Killzone on the PS3 imageries to another Final Fantasy. That is Final Fantasy 10 CGI.
If you look at the image below, killzone come close to look FFX CGI.

http://www.ffonline.com/media/wallpapers/800/ff10/ffx12-800.jpg


http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614722/killzone-next-gen-20050516075937991.jpg

Even though the Final Fantasy 10 CG looks more vibrant and colorful but is due to the difference art directions that both games are trying to created. For example, FFX is more of a fantasy treat while Killzone on the PS3 is more of a dark, dull war zone.

My point is that, stop comparing Killzone on the PS3 to Final Fantasy :The Spirit Within, because we will never gonna get that level of imagery with all those textures and ray tracing like in the movies on the next gen.

[Z]

continue next-gen Killzone discussions here.

[rev>thanu]

like you said killzone strives for a more realistic art direction. the darker colors also reflect a more realistic world. specially the hair physics strive for a more realistic feel. non gravitaty affected hair kind of gives a disadvantage to FFX CG over killzone LOL.

[raVen]

gravity did affect the hair in ffx the just had some super gel only found in Spira

[rev>thanu]

gravity did affect the hair in ffx the just had some super gel only found in Spira

lol actually air is what affected the spirian hair dues, i think gravity didn't really exist because if you say that spirian super gel can hold this then that's one heck of a gel LOL.


http://w3.ffuniverse.nu/img/ff10/ffx-20011106_25.jpg

PS: probably with super crazy glue but not hair gel LOL.

[raVen]

Lol i stand corrected

[Z]

whats funny is the hair dues suppose to look silly, yet they look perfectly normal, just like anime hair.

anyway, yeah, I prefere 'fire'arms, bullets and hot lead over cyber light weapons.

[thedynamite007]

I dont know if this is new but here I will post the link http://www.dgs-online.nl/news_display.asp?id=16093

[O.D.S]

nice find there dynamite,

some concept images are new but the majority of them have already been posted somewhere around here.
great find anyway (i was really hyped up when i firstly read your thread title)

[agentorange]

Oh my the last pic is so mindblowing if you imagine it if its ingame. I hope that they will put those thing in the game llike the dog fight and especially the big mech and it will also be playable WOW!!! Talk about driving a 50 feet mech stomping on those puny humans hehehe!!!!

http://www.dgs-online.nl/image.asp?id=27525

[Illmatic]

I love the art direction, really nice style.

[Z]

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?p=633784#post633784

[thedynamite007]

Oh my the last pic is so mindblowing if you imagine it if its ingame. I hope that they will put those thing in the game llike the dog fight and especially the big mech and it will also be playable WOW!!! Talk about driving a 50 feet mech stomping on those puny humans hehehe!!!!

http://www.dgs-online.nl/image.asp?id=27525

Oh my!!!! Imagining that mech will be in the game gives me the chills and makes me drool with the possibilities. I REALLY HOPE that guerillia will consider including that mech thing and also be playable along with the crafts

[thedynamite007]

Any body here have translation of the website http://www.dgs-online.nl/news_display.asp?id=16093 please

[xbdestroya]

Any body here have translation of the website http://www.dgs-online.nl/news_display.asp?id=16093 please

Machine translation off of AltaVista:

Conceptual art Killzone
PS3 - Leviathan - 30/6/2005 - 1:58:48 PM

The picture material of the new Killzone (in development for PS3) stocked as a bomb on last E3. Directly after appearing the material on also a controverse of unprecedented scope on several game-gerelateerde the forae arose exactly - did we look at monster here to the brutal strength of Sony's, or we were fooled with picture material, yes or no gerendered? The term fanboy got in any case a new dimension in the discussions, in which proponents swaid with frames in which clear ' errors ' are visible (objects which in walls slide and such) and antagonists spoke concerning tampering with the afspeelsnelheid and the number of frames by second.

Guerrilla is silent in all languages, and up to that time the truth in the middle lies. We do not expect that the shown quality of Killzone will be already as from the lanceerdatum on PS3 feasable, but we do not exclude definitely that shown quality can be realised in former days or later on PS3. This vision connects also on (very carefully formulated) the remarks of several spokesmen of Sony.

We encountered information of complete an other source on the Internet site of Xavier Marquis. This name does not do a bell tinkle possibly immediately, but these number French man has been for a large part responsible for unique, grim-futuristic at the latest of Killzone. Since it correctly this unique look of Killzone has been that much praise could, it is not astonishing harvest that also for Killzone on PS3 the guerrilla this draughtsman in the hand has taken.

Marquis plaatse on its Internet site small two dozens to conceptual drawings, a seizure from the work which he performs for guerrilla at present. Became remarkably enough these art within short time without some comment removes from online port folio of Marquis. To the reasons for this we can guess of course only, but it speaks of course for itself that it has been intervened of hogerhand. Fortunately have we thanks to these and gene the superb work of Marquis still on ours HD'tjes stand . Below you find the artwork. The last image still stands on the Internet site, the rest has been removed. Part of mentioned below drawings (mainly of the vehicles with which troops are transported) were retrieve earlier already on exactly, the rest is new.

Since the still ' concept ' art is, is not certain that the locations, personages and vehicles such as them below are shown, also effectively will emerge in Killzone on PS3. A number of the elements from the images has however already emerged in the picture material as shown on E3, what makes it more plausible that matter also other from these drawings will emerge in the game. It is remarkable further that in drawing the #10 words ' Killzone PSP concept ' be to retrieve. Carefully directed hint of guerrilla or slip-up van Marquis? The time will learn it.

Keep in mind the article is dated 6/30, just for reference.

[thedynamite007]

Machine translation off of AltaVista:



Keep in mind the article is dated 6/30, just for reference.

thanks for the translation. I think Guerillia already shifted there ps2 and psp project to Ps3 so those consecp art will appear in Ps3

[rpgamer_2k5]

Hmm, what I say? Speculations that are meant to 'please' a crowd is no better than no speculation. The advocates of the "Killzone = CG" tend to come from a crowd that fancy the idea of travelling all the corners of the net, even the hostile regions. So do expect the media to make speculations to please such a large and 'energetic' population.

Re-Cap:
From [total CG] to [real-time but not in-game] (Cutscene/Battle/Quest config of RPGs) to [graphics that would appear in another 5 years).

I am not going to be swayed, I know that Killzone trail is the real stuff. :)

[Z]

I believe every demo and trailer showed for PS3 is real, just as I believe everything showed for the competition is also real- which is not hard to believe anyway.

about the Killzone projects; to be clear the PS2 version coming 2006 is still on track. there is no reason to shift it. Killzone PS3 will be on the new system. how many people wil be owning PS3 compared to PS2? why not make two games on two different systems than making one on a new, still young, one? beside, there will be around a year between the two games's releases.

as for the PSP version; this is still a rumor. for what its worth, this rumor is stronger than the SOCOM PSP one and definitly stronger than the GTA PSP one. both those surprisingly ended up true. so being optimistic (and a Hellgast fan!) I want to believe it will become true. in any case, even if it doesn't, a PS2 sequel and a PS3 bomb will be enough to make me forget anything else :spiny:

PS; I am reminded by a member here that said "no way Gundam could be real at E3". now, he is left speechles after the playble demo shown last week. now that is one happy gamer- understatement. :3eye: