Scathing PS3 Article From "The FiringSquad"

[Freeman_JI]

The Firing Squad (http://www.firingsquad.com/features/playstation_3_failure/)

Just read the article I must say they mirrored my sentiment but were very very bleak about the PS3's future. I think the name + Japan will still keep the PS3 in the hunt and may just give it the edge over the 360.

Thoughts Yay/Neigh?

Thanks to Jtyettis @ TeamXbox E3 original thread.

[PhYmon]

Is too early to predict such a thing like that "Playstation 3 Dead In The Water" lets see if Sony makes some changes on the consoles..

[Viper]

Agreed. Calling it a bad move is one thing but to predict its death is rather arrogant.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Agreed. Calling it a bad move is one thing but to predict its death is rather arrogant.
Quoted for truth.

[pari]

The article is more of a reactionary article. When the boundaries are pushed, people react even if that act of pushing the boundary is better for long term. SONY is being slammed left and right by anybody and everybody who writes. The same people who are slamming SONY, would be singing paeans saying how revolutionary SONY is , when PS3 turns out to be successful.
Like said in the previous posting, if SONY shows how good is Blu-ray for game content guess what is going to happen? 360 would be scrambling. SONY has made some smart moves Blu-ray and motion sensitive controller. The success of PS3 depends on how well SONY first party developers use Blu-ray and Motion sensors. If atleast one games is succesful using Blu-ray and Motion sensors (warhawk), then equation is changed. All the third party developers would have no choice but to take advantage of Blu-ray and Motion Sensor. 360 can have episodic content as consolation..
PS3 can fail only if SONY screws up in the game side which I believe would not happen. SONY has been improving its first party developer and games repertoire.

[sudzy]

The article is more of a reactionary article. When the boundaries are pushed, people react even if that act of pushing the boundary is better for long term. SONY is being slammed left and right by anybody and everybody who writes. The same people who are slamming SONY, would be singing paeans saying how revolutionary SONY is , when PS3 turns out to be successful.
Like said in the previous posting, if SONY shows how good is Blu-ray for game content guess what is going to happen? 360 would be scrambling. SONY has made some smart moves Blu-ray and motion sensitive controller. The success of PS3 depends on how well SONY first party developers use Blu-ray and Motion sensors. If atleast one games is succesful using Blu-ray and Motion sensors (warhawk), then equation is changed. All the third party developers would have no choice but to take advantage of Blu-ray and Motion Sensor. 360 can have episodic content as consolation..
PS3 can fail only if SONY screws up in the game side which I believe would not happen. SONY has been improving its first party developer and games repertoire.

QFT
Spot on Pari

[bigwig]

hmmm I thought the article was the same stuff kids have been spurting for the last few days...I think the ignorance of the games is stupid though....as some of the games do look pretty good for a launch...at least more appealing to me than many that came out for x360...

peace

[Z]

it's fun taking swings at the leader. it wouldn't be as interesting slaming Ninty.
besides, how many more so called 'articles' have been predicting Ninty's demise?

all unprofessional and kiddy stuff here. nothing to see.

[woundingchaney]

hmmm I thought the article was the same stuff kids have been spurting for the last few days...I think the ignorance of the games is stupid though....as some of the games do look pretty good for a launch...at least more appealing to me than many that came out for x360...

peace
The games have been in dev. for over a year now they should look good especially in comparison to 360 launch titles.



This is the typical reaction all across the internet, Sony laid the groundwork for this with ridiculous claims, pre rendered footage, and technical demos. Dont blame the fans/consumers/journalists blame Sony.

[Fats]

Eh, totally pathetic. Stating that a console brand as popular as the PS3 is going to fail based on the events that took place at this years E3 is very ignorant, given the high price of both models I wouldn't say that Sony are going to fail, perhaps just not perform as well as they hope when it's initially released (It wouldn't surprsied me if they still sold like hotcakes though).

[Viper]

Sony touted the 75 million polygons of the PS2 back before release too. Granted people didn't understand the differnce between raw wireframe polys and full in game environment polys and though that one still bites them everynow and then in an article it surely did nothing so much as to destroy the future of the PS2....Sony has 100 million sold to prove it.

[Sypher]

You know I find ironic about this whole "ZOMG $600" thing is that Sony got exactly what it wanted, press coverage. In some ways it was the show stealer of this E3. Think about it, what is hot off of everyone lips right now? The Wii and PS3, albeit for different reasons. IMO I don't think this is the final price. I expect it to drop $50-$75 before launch.

[woundingchaney]

You know I find ironic about this whole "ZOMG $600" thing is that Sony got exactly what it wanted, press coverage. In some ways it was the show stealer of this E3. Think about it, what is hot off of everyone lips right now? The Wii and PS3, albeit for different reasons. IMO I don't think this is the final price. I expect it to drop $50-$75 before launch.
The old motto of any publicity is good publicity does not apply to a multi billion dollar gorilla like Sony (lol).


Thats the final price.:spiny:

[Nameless]

Pari,
I agree with your thoughts...
I deserve some rep fellas, because I stated the importance of hyping blu-ray from a gaming perspective before E3 even started. I even started a thread questioning if consumers were really ready for blu-ray and got blasted by some of the people on the forum... I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but the market is not ready for BD from a movie perspective, but if Sony proves the medium is superior to DVD for gaming Sony has a potential ace card up their sleeve.

Sony needs to do a good job convincing gamers that BD was included for gaming and not to force a new digital format on consumers. If Sony releases a killer app only possible because of the capacity of BD consumers will see the light... If Sony can't produce some compelling reasons why BD is important to gaming early in the consoles life cycle Sony could lose the #1 spot in the US... Microsoft is gaining momentum and the Rockstar move with GT4 is a prime example. Sony needs to focus on gaming more and technology a little less... Peace

[Sypher]

^^I would agree if this was make or break, but this is not the case

[Z]

The games have been in dev. for over a year now they should look good especially in comparison to 360 launch titles.



This is the typical reaction all across the internet, Sony laid the groundwork for this with ridiculous claims, pre rendered footage, and technical demos. Dont blame the fans/consumers/journalists blame Sony.
I haven't read the article and don't plan to. but I think what we are discussing here isn't Sony getting negative report, but the manor of the reports themselves. predicting Sony's demise due to one event isn't very professional now is it? ;)

[woundingchaney]

I haven't read the article and don't plan to. but I think what we are discussing here isn't Sony getting negative report, but the manor of the reports themselves. predicting Sony's demise due to one event isn't very professional now is it? ;)
No it is not but at the same time this event is momentus and thats what I was referring to. I do expect Sony to once again become the victor this gen but by no where near the numbers or percentage that was applied in prior studies or the results of last gen.

Sony left many people blind and in anticipation of a product that doesnt meet its previously indicated capabilities, now they attach a 500 to 600 dollar price tag. I think its hard to expect that many of these backlashes werent expected and arent reasonable to some degree (although this one is somewhat self serving).

[koldfuzion]

The backlash is predictible indeed. I think nearly everyone was expecting to get blown away by Sony at the press conference walking in, and walked out choking on the price tag and "GOOOOOOO RIDGE RAAAAAAAACER!".

Yeah, everyone knew PS3 was going to be $$$ but again, expecations going in I think were either $399 of $499. Very few people (myself included) thought $599 was really plausible. Lo and behold here we are. Do I think $600 is insane, no. Frankly it is pretty reasonable for what you get. But it's not whether it's reasonable or not, it's whether the perceived value is high or not, and the perception out there is clearly that it's pricey. Frankly I don't think Sony did a good job of presenting the value proposition at the conference or laying the groundwork for coming in 1/3 higher than it's competitor. Given the expecations, and the reality, the visceral reaction is hardly surprising.

Is this going to kill Sony or dethrone them? Um, no. Is it a setback? Of course. If anyone thinks sony went in to E3 thinking they'd spend 4 days doing damage control, they are dreaming. (Maybe some of them did, but I think KK with his "too cheap" comment are clearly out of touch and in denial). I have a feeling Phil knew damn well the world was about to puke on the price, probably Kaz too, hence the somewhat muted enthusiasm that showed throughout the conference. Frankly I think they were both pretty terrified knowing the bomb they were going to drop at the end. Anyway the absence of games like motorstorm and assassin's creed which apparently were demoable or close too it hurt (and I'm guessing Sony is pretty bumbed out that new moto model was 2 days late), 20 mins on GT4 was deadly, and the pricing bunch line was death. But is one stupid press conference going to ruin their PS3 strategy? I think not. The first 6-10 million units WILL sell very fast no problem at this price. If the price holds and they don't sell many tardpacks, that's $3.6-$6 billion in sales on those 6-10 million units right there. Not sure what their cut is, but that's a lot of recouped costs. Get those first 10 mil out of the way and the price chopping starts.

Remember the name of the game here folks:
1) Invest heavily in R&D :stirpot: and up front costs on new tech.
2) Recoup as much cost as possible by ass raping :tardbang: early adopters :drool:who are price inelastic.
3) Bust ass and reduce manufacturing costs.:grouphug:
4) Then reduce price after step 1 is complete. Hopefully later than sooner. (this is the part where you get bummed about your marketing flop)
5) Get price to = manufacturing costs.
6) Maximize installed base.:praise:
7) Watch royalty revenues roll in.:djparty:
8) Cut manufacturing costs more.
9) Cut price again, but now to slightly above cost
10) Watch profits on hardware roll in, and royalties on software go through the roof. :djparty:
11) Make so much money you feel dirty.:rockon:
12) Rinse. :drunks:
13) Repeat.:wank:
14) (Wake up and wonder wtf you aren't the CEO of this company.):emo: :honor:


Sony has reason to be bummed for a major marketing floppola of epic proportions (hey M$ had its bad days too--remember the MTv disaster?).

But if I were them, I wouldn't be all that worried. Not one bit.

[Phryne Astynome]

Great post Koldfuzion!

Anyways, I agree with most of the people here. It is NOT their demise but it is a setback. I think people should be more concerned about the state of the industry though, game development costs are rising and not many developers have the money to push either of the systems to their limits like before.

Also, I don't want to defend Sony's marketing and hype but I will. Their last E3 was like that primarily to take attention away from their competitors. Was it wrong? That is you opinion and if you think it is; well I can't change your mind.

Also, why do people get mad about Sony's marketing hype? Personally, I think it is funny and exciting even if I don't believe it all. If you want to know a life damaging hype, maybe you should talk to a first year law associate at Skadden. Skadden is infamous for hyping their law firm. Their summer associate program is incredibly fun where they go out to baseball games with the partners and also party at the partners' houses. The firm tells everyone that this is how the daily life is and all those poor associates believe them. When these associates are hired full time, they are worked to death at around 70-80 a weeks doing boring document review and memos. They don't do any of that summer stuff and instead they are on call 24/7 and treated like garbage by the partners (who are infamous for being screamers).

Well that is my two cents. Oh and if you think Sony's hype is bad, you haven't seen anything when it comes to other companies.

[Hrama]

The old motto of any publicity is good publicity does not apply to a multi billion dollar gorilla like Sony (lol).


Thats the final price.:spiny:

(Ah, this is the perfect opportunity for my senseless rant on stupid publicity, not to knock you Wounding.)
Errr sure, publicity is publicity. Hell, look at commercials for umm let's say.... milk! anyone remember "Got milk?" As if people are going to stop buying milk. Last time I checked I wasn't putting grape juice on my cereal or dipping my oreos in soda. "Behold the power of cheese" Oh I was right! I knew cheese was something that could only be harvested from the moon, making it a precious commodity. "Beef, its whats for dinner" Yes, support beef as farmers loose more and more cows everyday to cow-abducting aliens. EVERYTHING get's advertised, from high end stuff that only appeals to a small niche market to stuff that people have been buying since the beginning of time that is not going anywhere. Not to knock you Wounding as you do have a really good point, but its just to show that things that don't even need advertising get milions in advertising every year. :)

/rant

Now as for Sony, I just hope they can pull it off. It all becomes public perception at this point. If people percieve it as an awesome deal for the technology, well then Sony has a market. If they say "WTF!1 I am not paying a billion dollars for teh game machine LOLz @Sony. Well then Sony is quite thoroughly fucked. They honestly think they can sell the thing for that much, so let's say if people will buy into it or not. Oh, and yes, they had better start dropping the price by next year honestly, or that innitial spike in sales from the launch is going to go into a real deep slump. 100 million people are not going to pay 500-600 bucks for the thing. And yeah, one press conference is not going to deflate them at all, just like Revolution's name change to Wii has not put people off from wanting to play the thing. It is the long run that is going to be a hurdle and if Sony plays their cards right, it shouldn't be that bad.

[Viper]

One aspect that we don't seem to be taking into accoutn that could really be a problem (and pardon me for sounding negative, I'm merely trying to help convey how serious it is for Sony to cut the price asap) is that MS could cut it's price near the PS3 launch.

MS cut the price of the Xbox from $299.99 to $199.99 only 6 months after launch. If they cut the price of the top end model to $299.99 a few weeks before PS3 hits, that could really put Sony in a bad spot. It would be wise for Sony to announce it's own price cut 6 months after launch (which would be E3 2007).

[jumbo]

Maybe it's just me but I'm not interested in what the competition does. MS could give their systems away for free and I would still buy a PS3.

Sony is right to hype their system. I'm sure even the casual gamers anticipate PS3 to some degree.

My father is an amateur photographer. He won't be any digital camera but SONY. It does not matter to him that there are cheaper ones out there and that he may not be that great at taking pictures. It's him wanting the best he can get for his money and he's willing to spend a $1000 on it.

I would imagine all these speculations are based on all these being equal but none of the systems are the same. They offer different things. People are aware of what they're buying and they are aware of their needs.

If Sony can prove they have the best system, they'll sell it. It makes no difference what MS does. It's all in Sony's hand right now.

[Phryne Astynome]

One aspect that we don't seem to be taking into accoutn that could really be a problem (and pardon me for sounding negative, I'm merely trying to help convey how serious it is for Sony to cut the price asap) is that MS could cut it's price near the PS3 launch.

MS cut the price of the Xbox from $299.99 to $199.99 only 6 months after launch. If they cut the price of the top end model to $299.99 a few weeks before PS3 hits, that could really put Sony in a bad spot. It would be wise for Sony to announce it's own price cut 6 months after launch (which would be E3 2007).

Microsoft has to recoup their losses from last gen. I would think that since the price of the PS3 is much higher, they would not have any incentive to drop the price.

[Clixx]

I don't know if it's my boundless optimism speaking, but I think that $600 is not the final price.
A few people of the industry spoke that Sony's price announcement came rather unexpectedly,
the price should not have been released until August at the earliest.

It seems that, at least to me, Sony's pulling the same stunt as with DS3, announce something
most would hate and then go back to what everyone loves.
I wouldn't be surprised if in the end they come out with only one SKU and price it at 500-550.

[Viper]

Phryne, while I fully agree with that sentiment, this E3 should have taught us all one very big lesson....our own expectations are of no consequence to the reality that befalls them.

We both assume that as such and with good logic supporting it yet MS wishes to be as competitive as it can be and a price cut would go a long way to establishing that and allowing them to fly through this gen with few needs for further price cuts as an establishment of market ownership would then be in their hands (Wii aside but that's a different story altogether).

[koldfuzion]

Yeah I wouldn't be too surprised to see one SKU at $550 or even $500. (Then again, I'm not sure that's in the cards if they ripped out KK's dual-HDMI baby and his card slots and his wi-fi and his 3 ethernet ports--if they had to do all they they must have had one bitch of a time getting down to the current price point.) Anyway if they do come November everyone will say OOH SONY we love you what a deal! Not a bad strategy. I'm giving up on speculating, I was pretty much dead set on $499 or $399. :shrug:

rant: As an aside: Skadden sucks ass. Any idiot should know that. But agreed every year Harvard grads go there in droves. Go figure. (Skadden isn't the only firm however with a ridiculous summer program--ours is off the hook, but in general we don't sugar coat shit--after your summer the firm pretty much owns your ass (and mine). And most folks do know that's the case. My firm unlike Skadden however isn't populated with a-holes. :P Well just me. ;)

And yeah there are some really dumb ass things that get advertised. Like Con Ed. WTF do they advertise?? Hmm Con Ed works hard, I guess I'll leave all the lights on now? WTF. End rant.

[Zer0-Sum]

Lame. I read it and thought, LAME. PS3 fail? Yah right...

[Goki]

Sony is smart in revealing price early as it will have time to settle down in the mind for the conusmer to know the price early, 6 months from now, we wont be as bitchy about it and more likely to have accepted the truth, but if they had revealed the price just suddenly b4 the release or only 2-3 months, it would have hurt the launch, as people are still in schock of the price announcment.

[Z]

One aspect that we don't seem to be taking into accoutn that could really be a problem (and pardon me for sounding negative, I'm merely trying to help convey how serious it is for Sony to cut the price asap) is that MS could cut it's price near the PS3 launch.

MS cut the price of the Xbox from $299.99 to $199.99 only 6 months after launch. If they cut the price of the top end model to $299.99 a few weeks before PS3 hits, that could really put Sony in a bad spot. It would be wise for Sony to announce it's own price cut 6 months after launch (which would be E3 2007).
I see what you mean, but MS doesn't even have to cut prices. they are already $200 less. and Rev will be cheap as well- presumably.

I think PS3 could sell out for at least 6 months with any price tag. after that, they could cut the price a little and/or get rid of one model.

with the crazy dev support, Sony will make profits out of licensing before a year passes. they did that with PSP. it and Bravia were the two main profit channels last year (one year after PSP launched). of course it will take longer for them to make profits from the hardware itself- if ever. yet still. how can you not get excited about the leader's new system especially when they show footage comparible to CG. you only need to say FF to win over the Japs. SE announced two FF13!

when sales cool down, Sony will either introduce a new pack or directly cut the price. don't worry about Sony. they need to work hard to mess PS3 up. ;)

[Viper]

Z, they may need to work but and by many accounts have got to work on that early. Please recall this exact same arrogance and egotism that befell Nintendo.

[Z]

they may be getting too confident with the pricing, but the dev relation, licensing, support, etc. is stronger than ever. Ninty was practically shooing devs away.
as for MS cutting price, they don't have too. they have a powerful system going for $299. that is around 50-100 more than Rev.

besides, there is alot of things that could happen with in six months. there are two major PS3 announcements: the new camera and real look at the online service.

[Applefiend]

Maybe it's just me but I'm not interested in what the competition does. MS could give their systems away for free and I would still buy a PS3.

That's the spirit. I want my MGS4, FF13, GT5, Dragon Quest 9, Tekken 6,Virtua Fighter 5, there's only one system that delivers that. No, Dead or Alive is no substitute for Virtua Fighter 5, Splinter Cell is no replacement for MGS4, Forza 2 will be no GT5, and Blue Dragon is no DQ9 or FF13. I want the best, that's PS3.

Damn the haters.

[Viper]

For the hardcore gamers that is the spirit BUT that is not the sentiment of the casual consumer that has made Sony so big.

Z, a price cut that I mention would only further seperate the price barrier with minimal graphic advantages being perceived by the general gaming audience. Sure, they don't exactly have to but if they want to dominate, a price cut would be wise.

[Zer0-Sum]

Games are what will sell PS3. GT5 will sell PS3's like crack to crak heads. MGS4? The same. FFXIII? Oh yah, that is a system seller if I have ever seen one. So what if it costs? People will pay because they love Sony. The sales record speaks for itself with over 200 million PS 1/2 units sold worldwide. it is the gameplay that makes these games so great. People love them and want to play more.

And as for the graphical division between 360 and PS3 I reiterate that the games we saw on PS3 are only builds as we all know. These are builds that are as good or in some cases better looking than finished 360 games. So when they are done, how much better looking will they be? Who knows, but my money is on WAY better. If Heavenly Sword looks that good now, imagine what it looks like in six months. GT5? Most likely look so good it will make your mind explode. Gameplay may be important, but graphics are good graphics are great too.

[Domination]

The Firing Squad (http://www.firingsquad.com/features/playstation_3_failure/)

Just read the article I must say they mirrored my sentiment but were very very bleak about the PS3's future. I think the name + Japan will still keep the PS3 in the hunt and may just give it the edge over the 360.

Thoughts Yay/Neigh?

Thanks to Jtyettis @ TeamXbox E3 original thread.

Just as I said before, the price is high and out of range for the average consumer, but by no means do i see the PS3 failing because of it. That's preposterous. Sony has a wide fanbase, much wider than the others. Their advantage also seems to be greater this time. Unless Sony continues selling the console at that rate is when you will witness a sharp drop like that. But to reach the average consumer, theirs a pretty good chance that that won't be the case for long.