DS3 Technology Is Not stolen from Nintendo

[xone_4]

Patent number: JP11099284
Publication date: 1999-04-13
Inventor: KOBAYASHI HIROAKI; YORIZUMI MINEO
Applicant: SONY CORP
Classification:
- international: G06F3/033; G06F3/033; (IPC1-7): A63F9/22; G06F3/033
- european:
Application number: JP19970265541 19970930
Priority number(s): JP19970265541 19970930


Abstract of JP11099284

PROBLEM TO BE SOLVED: To instruct an operation by the movement of a small controller that is close to the movement of a character by making the controller movable, detecting its movement and outputting a signal, and switch-recognizing the direction of the movement on the basis of the outputted signal.

SOLUTION: The controller detects an angular speed by a detection section provided in a connecting section that connects the right and left operating sections of a controller unit 82. For example, rotation in the direction of rolling in relation to the right and left operating buttons 55, 56 of the left operating section is detected as an angular speed in the direction of rotation in the XY plane by the detection section 70 with the Z axis as the central axis. The detection section 70 is comprised of a movement detection section 71 made up of an angular speed sensor 72 and an amplifier 73, and a direction detection section 74 made up of movement direction recognition switches 79, 80. Therefore, movement can be instructed by the movement of the controller without operating the operating buttons 55, 56, etc.


Data supplied from the esp@cenet database - Worldwide


http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?%20DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11099284&F=0

[Kabbage]

But But teh stolen :'(


Im sick of seeing every PS3 Forum on the internet being overrrun with doom and gloom and shitty articles from shitty sources.

And Trolls... they need to die as well.

[xone_4]

Too many many many miss-informed gamers out there, we need to spread the word im sick of that every big news source even engadget is talking about it as stolen idea damn :(

[PhYmon]

the link doesnt work man

[chrismt]

Well the article shows up on a database search, but apparently the article was removed......or something.

[SuperLuigiBros]

Who cares how it works, the idea was stolen.

[Smokey]

Who cares how it works, the idea was stolen.
but i gotta say WHO CARES if it was!

[SuperLuigiBros]

Well one one hand Im kinda pissed that Sony has stolen the idea after Nintendo took all the risks. But then other the other hand, Im glad that Nintendo is influencing the gaming industry how they want. They did say that (long story short) the industry is becoming shit and that they wanted it to change, which is why they made the Wii. If the industry really will change, then everyone has to change not just one part of it.

So I guess after writing that it seems Nintendo has some sort of control over the entire industry.

[Smokey]

i dont know much nintendo seems to TAKE risks gameplay wise & sony seems to take risks internal hardware wise EE, CELL, blu ray etc but i could be talkin out me arse & totally wrong lol :)

[PhYmon]

hehehe! the thing here is! lets face it Sony controls the market, so they can do what they want; even stole as u said the idea from Nintendo and make it even cooler to play (the controller)

[LaLiLuLeLo]

....the patent says april 13 1999. how did they steal it from nintendo? and even then gyroscoping controllers have been around since the 1996 microsoft pc gaming sidewinder controller. gyros are not new! the wiimote is new! gyros, not new!
wiimote-new!
gyroscopes-not new!

Are you with me?!!!
Shit man...this crybaby copycat shit is getting on my nerves.

[Smokey]

i agree LaLiLuLeLo2003 :) DOES IT MATTER!-my opinion :)

[PhYmon]

@ lalilulelo2003, hehehe u are pretty funny man and also im agree with u

[Viper]

Ok, as one who plays most games on a Nintendo developed console, allow me to clarify the stance of most knowledgable N gamers. The technology is not stolen. In fact, the technologies are very different and Nintendo is using a patent from a different company called Analog Devices Inc.

What has transpired is Nintendo opted to bring that innovation into home console gaming with the creation of Wii. We've known for years that this was to be implemented. Sony had not decided to actually include the function until after Nintendo had announced their motion sensing controller at last years TGS. Only two weeks ago, almost 3 now, was the first developer told of Sony's intentions to use the technology.

Sony created a motion sensing patent for a contol method to alter stereo volume or turn on/off yoru lights but it's application in that field never materialzed nor was it implemented into any gaming devices (though Sony contends that it thought to use it in the PSP of which would have been a brilliant move).

The problem is not so much Sony stole the idea because certainly Sony has had the idea for several years but they simply never put it to use and Nintendo being known for taking methods of control in new directions presented a control system that not only produces the tilt sensing capabilities but triangulated object tracking as well. Sony's decision to announce their own tilt sensitive control may have truly been independant of Nintendo but even devlopers are leary of that given the've never heard Sony discuss it with them and worse yet most were just as shocked as gamers during their media briefing when Sony displayed the controllers tilt functions.

So there it is. A confessed N gamer that agrees the possibility that Sony developed the idea and implemented it completely independant of Nintendo but believes fully that they acted only after the technology was acceptable by gamers which makes them not a thief of ideas or technology but a cunctator of risk and uncertainty.

[Smokey]

i get what ya saying viper its not a matter of STOLEN hardware ideas per se but afraid of taking risks & waiting to see what happens :)

[xone_4]

Well It DOES NOT IT MATTER If any one steal from any one but the problem is the negative feedback on the normal consumers how well look for the original not the stolin thing and it just work like the snow ball effect.

and if it dosn't matter why it take all that interest on the forums and all ?!

i dont understand the online community they for one night sware to god the well never call the nintendo console wii even protest and make alot of noise and the other day thay keep saying wii all around the place!!

any one who make a full judgment on all that talk on the net forums well be screwed big time.

DAMN!!

[SuperLuigiBros]

....the patent says april 13 1999. how did they steal it from nintendo? and even then gyroscoping controllers have been around since the 1996 microsoft pc gaming sidewinder controller. gyros are not new! the wiimote is new! gyros, not new!
wiimote-new!
gyroscopes-not new!

Are you with me?!!!
Shit man...this crybaby copycat shit is getting on my nerves.
Alot of things are patented and used much later or even never at all. This was patented in 1999 but Sony only decided to use it now when Nintendo, again, has taken the risk. Theyve had it sitting there for 7 years and they decide to bring it out after everyone is on board with Nintendo's idea. Quite convenient dont you think?

Plus your (not specfically you) crybaby sony-didnt-steal-the-idea shit is getting on my nerves.

Ok, as one who plays most games on a Nintendo developed console, allow me to clarify the stance of most knowledgable N gamers. The technology is not stolen. In fact, the technologies are very different and Nintendo is using a patent from a different company called Analog Devices Inc.

What has transpired is Nintendo opted to bring that innovation into home console gaming with the creation of Wii. We've known for years that this was to be implemented. Sony had not decided to actually include the function until after Nintendo had announced their motion sensing controller at last years TGS. Only two weeks ago, almost 3 now, was the first developer told of Sony's intentions to use the technology.

Sony created a motion sensing patent for a contol method to alter stereo volume or turn on/off yoru lights but it's application in that field never materialzed nor was it implemented into any gaming devices (though Sony contends that it thought to use it in the PSP of which would have been a brilliant move).

The problem is not so much Sony stole the idea because certainly Sony has had the idea for several years but they simply never put it to use and Nintendo being known for taking methods of control in new directions presented a control system that not only produces the tilt sensing capabilities but triangulated object tracking as well. Sony's decision to announce their own tilt sensitive control may have truly been independant of Nintendo but even devlopers are leary of that given the've never heard Sony discuss it with them and worse yet most were just as shocked as gamers during their media briefing when Sony displayed the controllers tilt functions.

So there it is. A confessed N gamer that agrees the possibility that Sony developed the idea and implemented it completely independant of Nintendo but believes fully that they acted only after the technology was acceptable by gamers which makes them not a thief of ideas or technology but a cunctator of risk and uncertainty.
Exactly. Nintendo wants to change the industry, and what better way than to have everyone else change with them?

[makeitlookreal]

One thing that makes the PS3's technology even better is that it detects more than just tilt. It also detects movement or acceleration left, right, up, down, crossways, etc.

The ONE thing I *really* liked this E3 from Sony is the announcment of the motion detecting wireless controller. If it can be finely tuned so that smaller movements can serve the same purpose as large ones (to be truthful I don't usually like to be exercising while playing games) then I think it will be a GREAT addition!

For example, you could tilt forward to run and tilt a little backwards to stop and tilt a little more to walk backwards! You could tilt sideways to determine which direction you are facing and perhaps hold a button down while tilting the controller to control the camera! A jerk downwards (not a tilt but a small movement downwards) could make your character dive and a jerk up could allow him to jump. Shaking the controller in anger could allow your character to power up or taunt! Jerking forwards could allow you to power dash or something.

There are so many control options with motion sensing technology it is almost unimaginable!

Nintendo's system will be more precise due to the triangulation that was previously mentioned in this thread. However, even the PS3's motion sensing of tilt and acceleration or movement will be enough to provide vast new gameplay options.

But if they are not optimized then the same options could become very unpopular!

[Smokey]

i get what youre saying tooo xone_4 its a crazy back stabing place the internet__EVIL i reckon :) i dont get whats going on half the time either!

[makeitlookreal]

Again, Sony didn't steal anything. I will totally be on Viper's side on this issue. There are two different technologies or at least schemes of using the technology being used. No one stole anything from anyone, and if two companies want to use a similiar technology then I don't see anything wrong and in my opinion it's GREAT because the best technology will hopefully win out in the end.

Nintendo put all it's eggs into one basket this time around with the Wii. Yes, it has slightly more power than an XBox 1. However, other than that the only really good thing going for it is the motion sensing. The fact Sony took a chance with a similair technology is going to hurt Nintendo somewhat, because it is a reason people could consider before purchasing a Wii.

What Nintendo needs to do now, if they really think their version of the technology is superior, is to prove that it is much better in games. Obviously, due to the remote sensor and triangulation it will be more precise in 3d space. Will that mean it is truly superior? Then Nintendo needs to make a mock PS3 controller and show tests comparing it and the Wii controller.

I like competition and in the end it is good for all of us!

[xone_4]

i know if you try to inform some one about somthing they dont care about and you are a copycat crybaby and if you stay cool you are a negative person!!.

[Viper]

i dont understand the online community they for one night sware to god the well never call the nintendo console wii even protest and make alot of noise and the other day thay keep saying wii all around the place!!Kinda like how $500.00 was too expensive last week but $600.00 is ok this week?

One thing that makes the PS3's technology even better is that it detects more than just tilt. It also detects movement or acceleration left, right, up, down, crossways, etc.You do know the Wii-mote contains two accelarometers? One in the Wii-mote itself and another in the nun-chuck analog attachment.

Madden football on Wii will have stiff arms, jukes, passes, hikes, lateralls and more al based on motion.

At least you are talking gameplay elements so that's cool.

[xone_4]

well if the companies start to ignore the net communitys i dont blame them any more

and nintendo did just thet (Wii !!) and sony doing it with the psp homebrew issue

[PhYmon]

Pues tienes razon makeitlookreal, some competition is not bad for anyone it makes it fun and more innovating! make the industry grow in ways never imagined before!

[backbreaker]

long time lurker, first time poster. XBD will fix the link.

link (http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11099284&F=0&QPN=JP11099284)

[backbreaker]

long time lurker, first time poster. XBD will fix the link.

hp://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=JP11099284&F=0&QPN=JP11099284

The pic will not load for some reason, maybe because its my first post? I can email it too some one and they can post it.

[D3adcell]

Link isn't working, got another one?

[xbdestroya]

Link seems to be working for me.

Welcome to the forum by the way Backbreaker, and thanks for the link. :smoke:

(ok but now it's not, weird...)

Just to break it down though, this Sony patent is for a motion-sening controller, and it's dated 1999.

[cliffbo]

1999 eh! i think some people owe Sony an apology.

[VG Aficionado]

Every link for that web never works for me either. Let's just attach the picture.

This should have arisen when Nintendo showed their controller back at TGS 2005 and posted in Nintendo boards.

[cliffbo]

Every link for that web never works for me either. Let's just attach the picture.

This should have arisen when Nintendo showed their controller back at TGS 2005 and posted in Nintendo boards.

it went to a patent VG 1999 sony!

[Handycrap101]

When did Nintendo patent their controller?

[TEEDA]

Well don't swant to troll anything guyz , you know me but look at this lol

old commercial though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyEC7bQZGS4&search=dualshock%203

[VG Aficionado]

it went to a patent VG 1999 sony!I'm not sure whether you actually understood my post :huh:

[cliffbo]

I'm not sure whether you actually understood my post :huh:

lol. ye i did but the link didn't go to a pic as far as i can see, it went to a patent

[cliffbo]

Handy it doesn't look like Nintendo actually patented their controller

Pixart's Tracking Sensor Technology Provides Quick, Responsive Play Experience on Wii Remote

May 11, 2006. PixArt Imaging Incorporation (PixArt), a market leader in CMOS sensor SoC (System-On-a-Chip) and related application semiconductors, today announces a strategic relationship with Nintendo Co., Ltd., to provide object tracking technology for Nintendo's new-generation gaming controller, the Wii Remote. PixArt's premium tracking technology will enable Nintendo to present innovative interaction gaming controllers for its new-generation gaming platform, Wii.

PixArt's Multi-Object Tracking™ engine (MOT sensor™) technology can track multiple objects in an unbelievably quick and responsive way. As a result, Nintendo can enable its new gaming controller to interact with people by tracking the movement of the Wii Remote. The playing experience will be unprecedented, exciting and easy, even for young children or older people who cannot operate the traditional gaming controllers.

"PixArt's technology enables a quick, dynamic play experience," commented Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director/General Manager, Integrated Research & Development Division, Nintendo Co., Ltd. "With PixArt's technology, Nintendo will usher in a new era of video games."

"It is PixArt's pleasure to partner with Nintendo, a technology leader, to launch the most powerful and pleasing solution for a gaming platform," said Sen Huang, Chief Executive Officer of PixArt. "The Multiple-Object Tracking™ engine (MOT sensor ™) has the highest performance ever in the market, and teaming with Nintendo means a gaming experience that is truly intuitive and inspiringly easy."

"In the world of interaction, every realistic operation can be simulated in a computerized game. Through play of such simulation, any person can learn very quickly and efficiently in a virtual way. Integrated tracking technology from proven vendors like PixArt will enhance the gaming experience for the overwhelming majority of all-generation gamers." said Sen Huang.

http://planetgamecube.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=11557

[Killing Moon]

Beautiful find, man!!

[venomv]

That's strange, you'd think Nintendo could manage to patent their own.

[xbdestroya]

I'm sure they could, but just like a lot of devs are using UE3 this gen, sometimes it's just easier/faster/cheaper to license someone else's technology.

I'd honestly be surprised if Nintendo didn't have a couple of patents in relation to their controller yet though; I see this licensing deal as a part of the package rather than the whole package.

[VG Aficionado]

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/4732/tiltcontrollerdiagram7wm.jpg

Thanks to Backbreaker. Note the lack of analog sticks. This is certainly from the PS1 era.

[xone_4]

i think that was my thread is all about!

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=56491

[xbdestroya]

See what happens when I've been gone for so long... duplicate thread right under my nose. :)

I'm just going to merge the two in this case though to avoid locking.

[xone_4]

thanx XB

[LaLiLuLeLo]

[BORG VOICE]WE ARE THE SONY PLAYSTATION. SURRENDER YOUR CONSOLE. ALL TECHNICAL, CULTURAL AND BIOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS WILL BE ASSIMILATED INTO OUR OWN. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.[/BORG VOICE]

lol...

[jaxmkii]

Who cares how it works, the idea was stolen. DUDE WHERE YOU HATCHED! :huh: the patten shows that the idea was made long before nitendo decided to make powerglove 2.0

[jaxmkii]

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon: [BORG VOICE]WE ARE THE SONY PLAYSTATION. SURRENDER YOUR CONSOLE. ALL TECHNICAL, CULTURAL AND BIOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS WILL BE ASSIMILATED INTO OUR OWN. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.[/BORG VOICE]

lol...:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[Z]

though the technology behind both pads are totally different that they don't even function precisely alike, Sony was indeed 'motivated' or 'incouraged' by Ninty as Phill Harrison said himself. SOny had gyroscope technology for quite a while, but the time to use it wasn't right. remember Ninty's Virtua Boy? somethings aren't ready at certain times.

with Ninty going for the remote, Sony saw an oportunity to play along as well. there is nothing wrong with that. more features than less, I say.

saying things like 'stole' is silly, especially in the time we live in where you could pritty much sue on anything. coffee is hot? bam, McDonald pays an old lady 2 million. *sigh*

[xone_4]

[BORG VOICE]WE ARE THE SONY PLAYSTATION. SURRENDER YOUR CONSOLE. ALL TECHNICAL, CULTURAL AND BIOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS WILL BE ASSIMILATED INTO OUR OWN. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.[/BORG VOICE]



HaHaHa Good One

[n1n9tean]

OK, Viper. NOW I see where you're coming from (post#14) and I can totally understand that. Not saying that's a fact (we'll never know.....now that's almost a fact) but it's more understandable than when you guys were implying that Sony outright ripped Nintendo off for no reason other than the similarities between the two technologies. I respect that you are basing what you're saying on solid knowledge though.

Sony created a motion sensing patent for a contol method to alter stereo volume or turn on/off yoru lights but it's application in that field never materialzed nor was it implemented into any gaming devices (though Sony contends that it thought to use it in the PSP of which would have been a brilliant move).

Yea, I agree. I came across this article this morning but even before then, I thought about Sony possibly using it in the next PSP.>>

Kawanishi was asked about the timing of the decision to include motion sensor technology in the controller. Asked if the motion sensor was considered for inclusion at the start of the controller's development, he responded that Sony actually wanted to add the sensors long ago, but had to wait for the technology to progress. Responding "Not at all" to the possibility of Sony having been "inspired" by Nintendo's Wii controller, he noted that Sony had actually wanted to use the motion sensor technology in the PSP.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/708/708601p1.html

Again, as usual, I am slave to no system and I could care less what really happened. I just hate to read a bunch of false accusations. I would even defend MS in the event that someone said that Sony's controller (DS2) is the only reason they rearranged the 360 controller the way they did.....and I don't like Xbox at all. Hey, many people found the controler uncomfortable/slightly confusing so they did what made sense to do.

[Data Drain]

I think any innovation to the console from here on will be considered stolen from Nintendo.

Even if the idea was implemented solely to compete with Nintendo, I'd say it was a smart and logical move. While stealing ideas and making money off of it doesn't make you original, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as there are people to enjoy it.

[Domination]

Who cares how it works, the idea was stolen.

No one ever used the Dual Shock 3, so how can you be so sure? There is nothing to prove this except for fanboy hearsay.

[Domination]

1999 eh! i think some people owe Sony an apology.

Indeed.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Who cares how it works, the idea was stolen.

*cough* fanboy *cough*

[Nasadus]

Interview with Satoru Iwata (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/269772_e3iwata11.html).


Q: Sony showed its own motion-sensing controller this week. What do you think?

A: A motion-sensing controller that you hold with both hands is completely different from one that you can use with either your right or left hand. Worldwide, bloggers have been writing that they copied us, but I don't really think we've been copied.

I don't think at all that we've lost Wii's advantage.

We've come out with a unique, new innovation. I think the fact that a company would do something similar is an admission from the outside that it has value. So instead of getting angry, we should celebrate.


Guess that's final then?