Japan Talks E3

[Old_Timer!]

source: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/710/710778p1.html
The biggest game talent in Japan shares its thoughts with Famitsu.
by IGN Staff
May 31, 2006 - We've all heard the gamer and analyst reactions to E3, but what about the Japanese development community? The latest issue of Famitsu scored brief comments from Japan's most respected development staff on May's big trade show. While the comments ended up being, for the most part, neutral, there were a few hints at where priorities lie in the next generation race.

Many of the developers mentioned PS3 and Wii but ignored Xbox 360. Flight Plan's Masami Watanabe (Black Matrix, Summon Night series) said that, given its specifications, he imagines the PS3 being the standard for the next 10 years. The PS3 is something that a developer has to make games for, he said, while the Wii is something developers out to try out if they have a good idea for it. Sega's Takumi Yoshinaga of Feel the Magic fame said that his attention is most focused on the PS3, as he's interested in seeing what type of developments the Cell will bring about. He's also interested in the connectivity between the DS and Wii.

A few developers were surprised by the PS3 announcements at E3. Capcom's Hiroyuki Kobayashi was surprised that Sony set a firm price and release date at E3. He noted that, looking at the PS3 titles that are being developed overseas, development for the system seems as though it's being handled differently in Japan. The thing that made him most glad about going to E3 is that he was able to get a final image for Devil May Cry 4.

Kobayashi's former coworker, Noritaka Funamizu, who now heads up Craft & Meister, also experienced some Sony shock at E3. While he was surprised to see the PS3 controller lose its rumble, the biggest impression from the show was the PS3's price. He actually expected the 60,000 price point, but he was also expecting Sony to hold off on release until March of 2007. He doesn't feel that Blu-Ray will have as much impact on sales as DVD did, and he believes the PS3 has yet to show what will make it sell. He believes the system's networking will be a sales point.

Gaia's Kouji Okada had a somewhat pessimistic reaction to E3. He was most surprised by the PS3's price -- cheap for a Blu-Ray player, but expensive for a game machine. He noted that, for people who just want to play games, this price point will be difficult. For the Wii, Okada believes that playing the system for lengthy periods could be tiresome. He also feels that Wii games will have to, from here on out, avoid being extensions of current style games and instead make proper use of the controller. Noting that console gaming could be entering a period of confusion, he suggested that players can expect great things from portable machines.

Some developers look a more neutral stance, touching on all three platforms. Level 5's Akihiro Hino (Dragon Quest VIII) had praise for the high visual quality of Final Fantasy XIII. Wii gave him the sense of taking gaming back to the basics and simply being fun to play. For Xbox 360, he noted that the system seems to have strong software going into its second year.

Q Entertainment's Tetsuya Mizuguchi also commented on all three platforms. He feels that E3 offered a more solid image of the different approaches being taken by the hardware manufacturers: the PS3, with its movie-like qualities, the Xbox 360, with its Vista connections and digital convergence of content, and the Wii, which inherits its sense of control from the toy world.

Finally, because we don't have enough Xbox 360 love in this article, we turn to Team Ninja's Tomonobu Itagaki. The chief ninja said that it took guts for Sony to change the controller design back to the original Dual Shock design, but added that as a developer of action games, Team Ninja has to consider that the controller no longer has rumble features. Regarding the Wii, he disclosed to Famitsu that someone asked him to make beach volleyball game using the controller. This made him wonder if one might get tired using the Wiimote for something like Dead or Alive Xtreme 2, which can be played for over 100 hours. Itagaki feels that the 360 had its usual strong showing, but he expressed hope that the heated overseas Xbox 360 market could be brought over to Japan.

[LiquidEagle]

Thanks :)

It's funny that IGN's become little more than translation service for Famitsu and other Japanese publications IMO :laugh:

[OmniCloud]

yeah i read this the other day old-timer-it seems what people are currently going crazy over and what the actual devs think are somewhat opposite. Whateva tho..I just hope Sony add the damn rumble and motion/sensing...seriously I haven't been much of a complainer but this is one thing tha I really would like to see changed. On the plus side of things, it looks like PS3 still has most developers intrigued by it... On the down side, it looks like 360 will still suck in Japan...

[Old_Timer!]

LoL well if you can't beat'em join them. We've been more on top of the new than them lately. I feel that their editors have been browsing forums alot lately, they gotta come to the underground for info :D
Yea Itagaki really want's the X360 to succeed, but it just doesn't seem to have that magic in the land of the rising sun.

[OmniCloud]

Yea...that's too bad too cuz 360 is a good piece of hardware. I'll be glad when all 3 systems are out so we can finally have somewhat "normal" threads again bro...

[Killing Moon]

Itagaki, "360 with it's usual strong showing"? It DID? When did I miss this BS?

[Old_Timer!]

Well it seems that Gears of War won Best console game award from the game critics. I don't know how the Wii got best of show but it did.
source: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/710/710776p1.html
Why didn't they interview Kojima, it's not as if he's biased for PS3, and Kazunori of (Polyphony).

[LiquidEagle]

Gears of War??? looks stupid.... Disappointed in that award.

[Old_Timer!]

Best of show could've easily gone to Heavenly Sword, I actually like Eye of Judgement because of it's interactive nature. I feel that game was the most innovative game of the show. I don't know who these critics are, but I demand a recount lol

[D3adcell]

Itagaki, "360 with it's usual strong showing"? It DID? When did I miss this BS?

If you would have checked out the 360 stuff you would have seen that it had a strong showing of software. They had probably the most playables on the floor. Then a good showing of games behind close doors and videos aswell.

No need to throw any insults here towards any console.

[Viano]

x2 did does or did have alot ads but mostly not needed ...

[venomv]

The 360 had a pretty good showing, a lot of people like Gears of War, even though I'm not one of them, Mass Effect, and Too Human.

[Z]

A few developers were surprised by the PS3 announcements at E3. Capcom's Hiroyuki Kobayashi was surprised that Sony set a firm price and release date at E3. He noted that, looking at the PS3 titles that are being developed overseas, development for the system seems as though it's being handled differently in Japan. The thing that made him most glad about going to E3 is that he was able to get a final image for Devil May Cry 4.
okay, what does that part mean?
They had probably the most playables on the floor.
obviously. they're out for half a year already. still, although X2 had a good showing, the anticipation for the yet un released competitors took away some of the spot light. next E3 -when everyone is out- will have a better view of the interest level.

[Old_Timer!]

I agree Z

[gljvd]

but he was also expecting Sony to hold off on release until March of 2007


Wow there is no way this would have happened. Sony would rather ship 10 consoles this holiday and nothing else till march than to officaly postpone the launch till that far away.

Giving ms over a year on the market alone (or just with nitnendo) would have killed sony. Ms expects 10m shipped by nov . By march they would have shipped at least 15m . I doubt sony could come back from that .

Anyway other than that wierd comment , the rest seems to be what I expected. Japan just doesn't care for the xbox 360. All the press in japan is negative on the 360 and its really not selling at all out there

[Gaul]

I saw 2 videos on Heavenly Sword, as well as a bunch of other stuff including Warhawk, the MGS4 15 min trailer (freakin' awsome), and a few others.

From what i saw, i think MGS4 and Heavenly Sword could have won best in show. Heavenly sword had amazing combat, it looked like a fight scene you would see in a cut-scene in real time. MGS4 was in a word stunning, but i just hope kojimas dialogue translates better this time around. MGS3's wasn't that appealing. (thats my only gripe with the game though.)

[Zer0-Sum]

It is not suprising that the 360 sales in japan are sucking wind. X-Box did miserably over there. I dont care how powerful the system was or what game it had, I think they wont buy an American system, period. Microsoft might as well foresake Japan. It is hopeless.

As for PS3 getting the most support that is no big news either. Look at PS2 support, nuf said.

Same with Wii support. No surpises there at all. The system is so kool it begs to be developed for!

My prediction: 360 sales will dwindle world wide as the launch of PS3 and Wii gets closer. 10 million? I doubt it. But that is just me. Good luck Microsoft....

[Gaul]

Well this may very well happen, but microsoft is one of the richest companies in the world, and you can be damn sure they will be back for a third season whether or not they do good.

[LiquidEagle]

MGS4 wasn't playable so I don't think it could have gotten best in show...

Anyways, I think Killing Moon's comments were a little more towards the word "usual." 360 didn't have a strong showing at E3 '05... This year it had a pretty strong showing there but that doesn't mean they had their "usual strong showing," does it?

[Applefiend]

Too Human was the suprise turkey of the show. Poor sods at Sillcon Knights have spent the last 5 years remaking Contra.

But it seems destined that Gears of War is the Christmas hit. kill.switch jokes aside, I'm really looking forward to playing that, should be a real blood'n'guts roller coaster ride. Mass Effect had a lot of people saying it was game of the show. So good show for 360. Not a great deal there for the japanese there though. They couldn't give a rats ass about Fable or Forza. The japanese and I would rather play with our DS Lites thanks!

So you know, let's not get into the console bashing thing. Although us 360 owners will probably be driven mad from playing Ping Pong between now and Gears. Gibber.

[Zer0-Sum]

I am personnaly not bashing any one console. I just think that all that info from Japan is not a suprise at all. 360 not doing good in Japan? Gee whiz guys, who dah thunk it? I hope they didnt pay anoyone to come up with that info! PS3, Wii and Ds Japanes favs? Wow, what a suprise! Not....

[Applefiend]

Yeah, all of japan collectively went "Oh! Final Fantasy 13! Oh! Nintendo!" then went back to bed.

[Zer0-Sum]

Yeah, all of japan collectively went "Oh! Final Fantasy 13! Oh! Nintendo!" then went back to bed.

No freaking joke man! Japan said "360 what?" So sad for them really. It is a good machine. Oh well. Forsake japan Microsoft and sell all units in America and Europe! You are going to lose sooooooo bad in Japan it will be like me getting my ass whupped by Jet Li!

[D3adcell]

I believe the 360 has already sold better then the original xbox in japan. In korea it is kicking ass due to online gaming and all. Australia I believe it is selling strong too. Japan of course isn't going to be won overnight. They may turn some heads though when ever Blue Dragon and Lost Oddysee come out.

[Viper]

I believe the 360 has already sold better then the original xbox in japan.
Actually, it's doing worse than the Xbox did at this point in its life cycle.

Original Xbox sold almost 500K in Japan but X360 has only barely passed 100k. The Xbox already had 3 times that much by now.

[Zer0-Sum]

Actually, it's doing worse than the Xbox did at this point in its life cycle.

Original Xbox sold almost 500K in Japan but X360 has only barely passed 100k. The Xbox already had 3 times that much by now.

The man is right. Sorry guys, but the Japanese could give two craps about 360 and some game called Blue Dragon which is gonna do squat when they have FFXIII on PS3 looking like it does. Which is so freaking amazing it blows my mind. Not to mention Wii.

And I would love to see sales numbers for Korea. As for Aussie land it is not suprising that 360 would do well there, it is a Western based nation now no matter where it is geographically....

[gljvd]

My prediction: 360 sales will dwindle world wide as the launch of PS3 and Wii gets closer. 10 million? I doubt it. But that is just me. Good luck Microsoft....


I dunno , have you looked at the release list on the xbox 360 this holiday season ?

Lost planet , dead rising , chrome hounds , Call of duty 3 , Splinter cell , Rainbow six vegas , Bioshock , Gears of war all off the top of my head , Then arcade titles like pacman , galaga , uno , street fighter , mortal kombat .

They will be fine this year and into early 2007 . I think all 3 console makers will sell all that they can make .

[LaLiLuLeLo]

^agreed^ Lost Planet is the hotness.

[Zer0-Sum]

I dunno , have you looked at the release list on the xbox 360 this holiday season ?

Lost planet , dead rising , chrome hounds , Call of duty 3 , Splinter cell , Rainbow six vegas , Bioshock , Gears of war all off the top of my head , Then arcade titles like pacman , galaga , uno , street fighter , mortal kombat .

They will be fine this year and into early 2007 . I think all 3 console makers will sell all that they can make .

Time will tell, but I still say that the sales of the actuall 360 units will go way down. Games? Sure they will sell like mad. But consoles? I dont think it will be so great for them....

[D3adcell]

I dunno , have you looked at the release list on the xbox 360 this holiday season ?

Lost planet , dead rising , chrome hounds , Call of duty 3 , Splinter cell , Rainbow six vegas , Bioshock , Gears of war all off the top of my head , Then arcade titles like pacman , galaga , uno , street fighter , mortal kombat .

They will be fine this year and into early 2007 . I think all 3 console makers will sell all that they can make .

You forgot to add Dead Rising to that list.

As for the system selling bad? Maybe in japan. But in the US i think it will be fine.

[gljvd]

Hehe , dead rising was the second one on my list D3adcell haha.

Yea in japan its going to be a stinker. In the usa its going to sell well.

Not everyone can afford a 500-600$ console and the 360 has a solid line up now (it still sucks for us who have it since the start as we've played everything , but a new user buying has some great games) and its just going to get better . Ms shouldn't have any problems this holdiay season. Esp if they do a small price drop like i think they are going to do .

Japan wont sell much , but i suspect some of those mystwalker rpgs will boost thier sales . Esp if japan gets another 50$ (whatever that is in yen) price drop. They only have the premium unit . So if that drops again ( i think it was 350$ usd there and now cheaper) along with Lost odessy it may sell a hundred thousand units or so.

Wow they really need to do something in japan . They should bite the bullet and just buy square-enix haha

[Viano]

Japan wont sell much , but i suspect some of those mystwalker rpgs will boost thier sales . Esp if japan gets another 50$ (whatever that is in yen) price drop. They only have the premium unit . So if that drops again ( i think it was 350$ usd there and now cheaper) along with Lost odessy it may sell a hundred thousand units or so.

Wow they really need to do something in japan . They should bite the bullet and just buy square-enix haha


Nah, in japan, most people won't pay something they don't want just cause it's cheaper, but that might boost some sales maybe.
BD and LO are probably the only hope but comparing to FFxiii and other rpgs I actually feel kinda sad for sakaguchi, he knows how to create things using his heart, what a waste.

[Applefiend]

Blue Dragon is about number 10 in the Famitsu most wanted list, so expect a small growth spurt for 360 around then. Genuine next gen jRPGs from well known producers are very thin on the ground.

Although I think it may drop out of the top ten next month. Dragon Quest on Wii and FF13 should push it out. It's already dropped from No.8 in the charts.

Blue Dragon is the only 360 game in the top 30.

http://insider.ign.com/articles/709/709621p8.html << The list, if you have IGN Insider.

The comment "That's one ugly top 5" is kinda true. Appears the japanese would rather replay FF3 on their DSes than play MGS4. Stagnation a gogo.

[Viano]

yeah there are many crazy people but buying a system just for a game is really crazy some how.

[Killing Moon]

If you would have checked out the 360 stuff you would have seen that it had a strong showing of software. They had probably the most playables on the floor. Then a good showing of games behind close doors and videos aswell.

No need to throw any insults here towards any console.
Not for nothing, but I've seen the Xbox showing and "strong software" wasn't the first thing that came to mind after viewing everything offered. An abundance of lackadasical software, bland software, by-the-numbers software, uninspired and dull software, maybe.

But "strong", not in the slightest. The "strongest" thing that they had to show was Bioware's own Mass Effect and even that wasn't on display too much to make up for everything else.

There aren't any insults needed, really. But the game industry is just too full of people using "pretty, sugar coated" words. In some type of effort to be "diplomatic" or "politically correct".

I say, "fuck that", I'm callin' it like it is. This industry needs people to be straight forward and raw about the truth of certain matters. There's already enough hokey, flip-flop people here, tip-toeing around one another so that they don't get into any type of trouble.

T'hell with that.

Microsoft's game offering were extremely bland and uninspired. I have no problem saying it and it's mostly the fault of Allard and his new President. While Sony made quite a few mistakes, I was intrigued by most of the software that they had to show, along with Nintendo. I've yet to see MS create anything for console that didn't have an "assembly line" stench to it.

As of right now, they're games have zero creativity or imagination behind them whatsoever. So until that changes, my view on them will be just as uninspired and dull as the games that they produce.

[OmniCloud]

As dull as and negative as that sounds Killing Moon...I have to agree with you...we'll see if M$ can produce some compelling first party stuff in time...but yea, right now, the only reason 360 is selling IMO opinion is because it's the only thing out. The best games on 360 are ports from PC or multi-platform games. Being that 360 is the only next-gen platform out now-it gets all the kudos. They better do a worldwide studios thing like Sony if they want to compete with the other guy's software, especially Nintendo's...

[cliffbo]

i know i shouldn't agree with you Killing moon but... hell your right. its not that the 360 games are terrible its just that they don't inspire.

[Zer0-Sum]

The best games on X-Box were always thrird party games or games that I could get on PC. The games always looked better on the PC. That includes Halo, which is sad and now Halo 2. Better graphics and controls for both. KOTOR1/2 were both better on PC and now Jade Empire is finally comeing for PC. It will be the same for the 360. Oblivion sales? PC sales blow 360 out of the water. So sad Microsoft, so sad for you.

[OmniCloud]

Halo 2 is on PC? I dunno bout Halo deadboyz, that one was more fun to me with a controller...I'm not a PC gamer tho (except for Warcraft) so I can't really speak on both sides. I think I like playing Halo on a TV with a Xbox controller over a 17in. High Resolution monitor...

[Zer0-Sum]

Halo 2 is on PC? I dunno bout Halo deadboyz, that one was more fun to me with a controller...I'm not a PC gamer tho (except for Warcraft) so I can't really speak on both sides. I think I like playing Halo on a TV with a Xbox controller over a 17in. High Resolution monitor...

See I am a FPS PC person. Mouse+Keyboard will always kick a controllers ass for me. The accuracy is way higher(can you say head shot?). But that is just me.

[Applefiend]

I do tend to think there's a desease in Western game production which a certain games console is a reflection of.

All across the Western world games developers sit up at night and wonder...

"How can I make my AI cutting edge?"
"How can I effectively use shaders to best effect?"
"How can I make my game as real as possible?"
"What kind of games are selling, how can I make one just like that".

Then they go to work and produce these horrible generic uncompelling soulless derivative games that are no fun to play, but get 9 out of 10 from IGN.

So screw them. Let's go play some Loco Roco, Okami or Katamari instead. Let's train our brains, look after our Nintendogs, and conduct orchestras. What they should be sitting up and thinking is...

"How do I make something unique using this machine's unique assets?"
"How do I give my game a unique art style?"
"How do I make my game fun. Laugh out loud fun"
"I've come up with a really good story I need to tell".
"How do I make a game that emotionally connects with my audience?"

Maybe this should go in the rant section. :)

[OmniCloud]

@deadboyz-I hope PS3 supports Mouse+Keyboard for gaming on PS3 so I can see what u guys have been boasting about all these years...lol Resistance looks like a pretty good online game to get into, hopefully I can try it out w/that game

Yea Apple...it probably does belong in the rant thread...but good point nonetheless-that's why we have Sony and Nintendo-all types of developers support it and it shows in the software...

[LiquidEagle]

You've got a point Killing Moon, but have you seen Lost Planet?? That game is absolutely fantastic!

Applefiend, we've got some western developers who do ask those questions when making their game. David Jaffe certainly comes to mind.

[Z]

when I compare game offerings between consoles, I don't mention multiplatforms since they are offered on all of them, so they don't realy matter. after all, you can get them with what ever system you buy.
I tend to look at exclusives, and promising exclsives at that. Dead Rising? I don't think it'll make much of an impact. Oblivion, Halo 3, Forza? now those are what count.

just to show how powerful the dev support behind PS3 (without mentioning it currently has the most game projects in the works) is how much some announcements for other systems apper to be. when SE announced FF11 on X2 ( a game getting in its third year) people jumped for joy. when SE announced FF:Crystal Cronicals 2 on Rev, people jumped for joy. I kept reading in bolds; "SE behind X2!", "SE supporting Rev!" and all that, while at the same time, they haven't announced their big guns for other than a Sony console. now if those offerings sound great, how do you think announcing not only a main FF, but another follow up to it on PS3 would sound?
Namco will make something for X2 and Rev, but where will the next AC and Tekken most likely end up? Konami will support both as well, but where will MGS and Silent Hill will most likely end up?
BD and LO are probably the only hope but comparing to FFxiii and other rpgs I actually feel kinda sad for sakaguchi, he knows how to create things using his heart, what a waste.
that is what I am talking about.

so far, X2 and Rev look to have a good lineup coming up. but they need to keep it up to gain momentum against PS3 which is blazing faster than ever in dev support. that is Sony's true strength; games, games and more games. look at the Jap charts. it seems there are only DS and PS2 on them. the reason? games.

I believe X2 can sell anywhere if it only has the titles. Japan? secure some of what SOny is having and you'll get it. RE on X2 and Rev is a fantastic addition for both. now work on the other big names.

[Viano]

I do tend to think there's a desease in Western game production which a certain games console is a reflection of.

All across the Western world games developers sit up at night and wonder...

"How can I make my AI cutting edge?"
"How can I effectively use shaders to best effect?"
"How can I make my game as real as possible?"
"What kind of games are selling, how can I make one just like that".

Then they go to work and produce these horrible generic uncompelling soulless derivative games that are no fun to play, but get 9 out of 10 from IGN.

So screw them. Let's go play some Loco Roco, Okami or Katamari instead. Let's train our brains, look after our Nintendogs, and conduct orchestras. What they should be sitting up and thinking is...

"How do I make something unique using this machine's unique assets?"
"How do I give my game a unique art style?"
"How do I make my game fun. Laugh out loud fun"
"I've come up with a really good story I need to tell".
"How do I make a game that emotionally connects with my audience?"

Maybe this should go in the rant section. :)


I think this is worth having its own thread discussing about.

+♪

[Applefiend]

Yeah there's great Western developers out there. The Eyetoy guys come to mind, as do Rockstar. I suck at Rockstar Table Tennis so badly but it's exactly the kind of game required. You wouldn't catch Rockstar making another generic shooter based on Unreal 3.0 Engine.

But most of the quirky original little games do tend to come out of Japan.

I think a lot of the guys here really get it, that what really drives console sales is compelling games, not hardware. So gameboy sold millions on Tetris and Pokemon, DS on Brain Training and Nintendogs, NES on Mario and Zelda and Dragon Quest and FF and the rest. Compelling original games.

[Killing Moon]

I do tend to think there's a desease in Western game production which a certain games console is a reflection of.

All across the Western world games developers sit up at night and wonder...

"How can I make my AI cutting edge?"
"How can I effectively use shaders to best effect?"
"How can I make my game as real as possible?"
"What kind of games are selling, how can I make one just like that".

Then they go to work and produce these horrible generic uncompelling soulless derivative games that are no fun to play, but get 9 out of 10 from IGN.

So screw them. Let's go play some Loco Roco, Okami or Katamari instead. Let's train our brains, look after our Nintendogs, and conduct orchestras. What they should be sitting up and thinking is...

"How do I make something unique using this machine's unique assets?"
"How do I give my game a unique art style?"
"How do I make my game fun. Laugh out loud fun"
"I've come up with a really good story I need to tell".
"How do I make a game that emotionally connects with my audience?"

Maybe this should go in the rant section. :)

Jeezus, this is so true. Western developers become way too concerned with technology that they end up making bland games (mostly Americans though, if you notice).

LiquidEagle: I've seen Lost Planet. I'm none too excited about it, but it seems a tad bit different. I want some hands on time w/ it though for any real judgment.

[LiquidEagle]

But most of the quirky original little games do tend to come out of Japan.

No truth to that at all. *looks at my avatar* oh snap! ;)

You're absolutely right -- why do you think I play PS2 & Gamecube and not XBox? I'm convinced that Japanese are better lovers considering the kind of love I get on those systems :-D

[Killing Moon]

No truth to that at all. *looks at my avatar* oh snap! ;)

You're absolutely right -- why do you think I play PS2 & Gamecube and not XBox? I'm convinced that Japanese are better lovers considering the kind of love I get on those systems :-D
And the trouble with Japanese developers is that they'll let themselves get into redundant ruts all too often and way too fast.

That and they're generally very poor at 3D level design.

[LiquidEagle]

btw, you can download a demo of Lost Planet on XBL, so find somebody with a 360 and bum off them for a bit! Check the game out! :-p

[Z]

different styles. the West and the East are both very talented. the good thing is that they complete each other. Westersn know how to make FPS, and Japanese know how to make RPGs. I think both are good at racers and what not.

the thing Ninja Theory said that was interesting is that Japanese know how to make third person action games and Westerners aren't that good. they said they want Heavenly Sword to show that they too can make good third person action games. :)
I love all styles and genre of gaming and hope they all thrive. liking one more than the other is purely personal taste. ;)

[Old_Timer!]

I'm convinced that Japanese are better lovers considering the kind of love I get on those systems :-D
LoL @ Liquid, I'm looking for a Japanese hottie to see if it's true. They are usually loveable and cute, I knew a few at school of design in NYC.

[Viano]

To have passion on what you love is what makes you better on what you love.

[Old_Timer!]

And see Viano just proved it.... One Love

[LiquidEagle]

Don't limit yourself to just women. If Hideo was coming on to me, I'd hit it! :laugh:

Anyways, Viano's also right -- when you do what you're passionate about you're gonna be the most productive. Not sure how that fits in but it could be some code that Japanese devs live by that I don't know about :-p

I think that's why Insomniac's games really shine as genuine works too -- they're such enthusiastic gamers and creators, you can tell they clearly love their job there :)

[Viano]

well, I meant the genre will improve itself depends on the amount of people who play/like it.

[Killing Moon]

different styles. the West and the East are both very talented. the good thing is that they complete each other. Westersn know how to make FPS, and Japanese know how to make RPGs. I think both are good at racers and what not.

the thing Ninja Theory said that was interesting is that Japanese know how to make third person action games and Westerners aren't that good. they said they want Heavenly Sword to show that they too can make good third person action games. :)
I love all styles and genre of gaming and hope they all thrive. liking one more than the other is purely personal taste. ;)

Meeeehh, I dunno.

The Japanese USED to be great at RPGs. Now, much like the "rut" description that I've noted, they're regurgitating the same formulas over n' over again.

I'd have to say, Western developers have FAR surpassed Japanese developers in that genre exponentially.

Just about every genre within this generation has been executed better by Western developers. The only genre exempt...for now, are fighting games.

[venomv]

The Japanese still do RPG's way better then anyone else in my opinion, they are hard to compare on the same level as there are major diffence between JRPG's and WRPG's.

[gljvd]

when I compare game offerings between consoles, I don't mention multiplatforms since they are offered on all of them, so they don't realy matter. after all, you can get them with what ever system you buy.
I tend to look at exclusives, and promising exclsives at that. Dead Rising? I don't think it'll make much of an impact. Oblivion, Halo 3, Forza? now those are what count.



This is a narrow view. Great games are great games. Esp considering some of what i listed will be on the xbox 360 first . Some can have as many as a 6 month lead over the ps3 versions , coupled with the excelent first party offerings this holiday season and the likely platnium sellers (Graw , cod2 and others) and the general cheap games from the launch , will make a very compelling arguement for people to pick up readly avalible xbox 360s in europe and NA than to wait longer for the ps3 .

so far, X2 and Rev look to have a good lineup coming up. but they need to keep it up to gain momentum against PS3 which is blazing faster than ever in dev support. that is Sony's true strength; games, games and more games. look at the Jap charts. it seems there are only DS and PS2 on them. the reason? games.


The xbox 360 has just as many games coming to it . It also has a slew of games already on it .

Japan is a diffrent case all together . I highly doubt its the games because the psp has games , lots of them , they are just crap. So quanity hardly matters there , its quality that apeals to thier tastes . Sadly Ms is a western dev. Thier only option is to buy eastern devs

Not for nothing, but I've seen the Xbox showing and "strong software" wasn't the first thing that came to mind after viewing everything offered. An abundance of lackadasical software, bland software, by-the-numbers software, uninspired and dull software, maybe.



Yet the amount of sequals sony has isn't uninspired ? What makes mgs 4 (thats 4 of them now) any diffrent than Gears of war ?

What makes the hundreth final fantasy so much more inspired than mass effect ?

Sony has just as many if not more sequals coming for it than ms .

Then look at heavenly sword , fun ass game let me tell you , but all that flashed through my mind was ... God of war .... but prettier !

The only reason I can see why you think sony had a better showing is because your simply a fan of thier games. The rest of your comments read off as totalty slanted

Even nintendo relied on more sequals , another zelda ? another mario ? another metriod ?

I love each and every one of them , and I can't wait to play them , but how are they suddenly inspired after thire 5th or 6th version

[LiquidEagle]

Anybody care to count how many 360 games are upgrades of readily available (and cheaper) console/PC games? That's not what I'd call a slew :-/

Which games are going to have a 6 month lead, too? Are you assuming that PS3 won't have similar games that come out for it first? What's in Microsoft's first party?? I can't think of a single first party game they've got coming besides Halo 3, and that's not this holiday season! I also don't think GRAW and CoD2 are going to magically pick up when the PS3 comes out because they'll have some uber-budget offering. That's never happened before -- did SSX or Zone of the Enders pick up in sales because they became cheaper around Xbox & Gamecube's launch? No, because people want new games to compete with a new system. It's never happened like that and there's no reason to imagine it will IMO.

MS's only option is to buy eastern devs? In their eyes, maybe. Putting out crap like Sudeki sure isn't gonna turn people over. It's clear that they've never taken Japan seriously and their paying for it by having terrible sales. Buying seems to be MS's answer to almost everything though, so they can buy away...

EDIT:
Yet the amount of sequals sony has isn't uninspired ? What makes mgs 4 (thats 4 of them now) any diffrent than Gears of war ?

OMG 4 MGSs!!?!?!? Nobody wanted that! I think it speaks for itself that Kojima has wanted to do something new since MGS2 ended, but fan demand keeps him coming back. We're getting all 4 MGSs because MGS is on the forefront of games as stunning pieces of technology and well-crafted storytelling devices. Gears of War couldn't even dream of being half the visionary game MGS is.

What makes the hundreth final fantasy so much more inspired than mass effect ?

Pedigree goes a long way, and people love the style of Final Fantasy. Each new entry is a new world being created and few games pull emotional strings like Final Fantasy can. Surely you can understand this, or do we need to talk about the basics of games?

Sony has just as many if not more sequals coming for it than ms .

Sony also has more established names on their side than MS -- it scales and isn't cause for concern like you try to make it. Also, Resistance, Fatal Inertia, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, and plenty of other games that will be coming at or near launch are totally original IPs, compared to the 360 having...Condemned? Other than that there was PGR3, Call of Duty 2, Perfect Dark 0, a new Ghost Recon on the way, and what else? How can you imagine the 360 launch to have been so much more original and compelling than the PS3 launch?

Then look at heavenly sword , fun ass game let me tell you , but all that flashed through my mind was ... God of war .... but prettier !

Did you ever play God of War?? I can't imagine you did because there is so much more to separate the two. Besides a completely different story and protagonist, I didn't see any puzzles in Heavenly Sword and...I really shouldn't have to go on. Play God of War, look at Heavenly Sword -- if you think they're the same because they have a semi-fixed 3rd person camera and combat with NPCs, then go for it -- anybody could use your logic to absolutely destroy every 360 game we've seen so far. I needn't mention the Gears of War/kill.switch comparisons...

The only reason I can see why you think sony had a better showing is because your simply a fan of thier games. The rest of your comments read off as totalty slanted
*sigh* I don't think you're in a position to say that at all, man.

[gljvd]

Anybody care to count how many 360 games are upgrades of readily available (and cheaper) console/PC games? That's not what I'd call a slew



Care to count how many of the ps3 announced titles are just ports of xbox 360 titles ?

MS's only option is to buy eastern devs? In their eyes, maybe. Putting out crap like Sudeki sure isn't gonna turn people over. It's clear that they've never taken Japan seriously and their paying for it by having terrible sales. Buying seems to be MS's answer to almost everything though, so they can buy away...


Just like sony paid for exclusives when they started the playstation brand. Money talks my friend

[Old_Timer!]

Ok GLjvd we all know that the industry lives off sequels, and the consumers on a whole love them or else they wouldn't sell. I still think Sony had the best showing, Eye of Judgement should've been given the title best of show because of it's truly interactive nature. Only nintendo's Wii games come close to matching it's interactivity. For everygame that MS showed you could say Sony countered and up the odds, if you said Gears of War sony had MGS4, etc, etc.
MS does have a few new IP's one that comes to mind is Viva Pinata, I really don't see it selling. But I didn't see Nintendog's selling well either, so who knows

[venomv]

Yet the amount of sequals sony has isn't uninspired ? What makes mgs 4 (thats 4 of them now) any diffrent than Gears of war ?

What makes the hundreth final fantasy so much more inspired than mass effect ?

Do you even know what these games are? How can you compare Gears of War and MGS? Spinter Cell and MGS yes, Gear of War, a huge no. How can you compare Mass Effect and FF, they are both RPG's, but that is were the similarity ends. Compare Mass Effect with Oblivion if you want, but not FF.

[gljvd]

Ok GLjvd we all know that the industry lives off sequels, and the consumers on a whole love them or else they wouldn't sell. I still think Sony had the best showing, Eye of Judgement should've been given the title best of show because of it's truly interactive nature. Only nintendo's Wii games come close to matching it's interactivity. For everygame that MS showed you could say Sony countered and up the odds, if you said Gears of War sony had MGS4, etc, etc.

We do know . Thats why I don't understand the comments by posters here. Why is the 4th sequal in a franchise inspired and a brand new ip isn't ?

Eye of judgement was relaly cool , but it wasn't palyable and extremely bugy

As for your little every game speach. I disagree. Mgs4 is a great game , but when is it coming .

Ms showed up for this holiday season , sony didn't . Ms has great line up from now till e3 2007 and further and at e3 2007 ms will be showing new stuff.

Sony will be showing us metal gear solid 4 again .


As I've siad , just say you like the sony games more . Just dont claim that everyone does , don't say that sony has inspired games and the spout off sequals , because that is just bs and bias .

Say you like what is on the system more than on the ms system and that is fine. I understand that comment. That comment makes sense and is honest.

Ms is getting great press coming off e3 because they had a better showing at e3 than sony . The press clearly sees that . For this holiday season the ps3 can't compete at all against ms's line up .

[gljvd]

Do you even know what these games are? How can you compare Gears of War and MGS? Spinter Cell and MGS yes, Gear of War, a huge no. How can you compare Mass Effect and FF, they are both RPG's, but that is were the similarity ends. Compare Mass Effect with Oblivion if you want, but not FF.


I am making a point .

Why is the 4th metal gear solid game inspired and the first gears of war isn't

Its simple fan boy logic that is painting one as inspired and the other isn't .

Just say your a fan of metal gear and aren't of gears of war.

To say one is uninspired and another isn't even though its the 4th in the series is bs . Pure and simple .

[Infernal]

We do know . Thats why I don't understand the comments by posters here. Why is the 4th sequal in a franchise inspired and a brand new ip isn't?
Well just because something is a new ip doesnt mean its original or inspired in any way. Look at all of the world war 2 shooters out there. Whenever a new world war 2 shooter comes out do you say "damn thats original". Hell no, thats what hes saying. Every MGS and FF game offers a completely new twist on gameplay and the storyline that drives these games is always completely new.

[Zer0-Sum]

@deadboyz-I hope PS3 supports Mouse+Keyboard for gaming on PS3 so I can see what u guys have been boasting about all these years...lol Resistance looks like a pretty good online game to get into, hopefully I can try it out w/that game

Awesome! UnReal 2007 with M-KB here I come on PS3 baby! Ah YAh!!! headshot! BOOM!!! Thanks for the info....

[Viano]

don't really care if I get banned but really have to say this,
gljvd you're pathetic.

[masteratt]

4th in the series....I don't see your point.
I don't care if MGS goes upto 55, the important thing that he delivers the fun and he shows inspiration in his work as it shows in the final product.

Just saying "oh look at our new covering and reloading system!" is not inspiration to me.

Agree with Viano...I mean for months now you've been down-talking PS3 with let's be honest- petty reasons and now it's just enough. You might have had some valid points now and then but the ratio between BS and gd points is not good.

[Z]

This is a narrow view. Great games are great games. Esp considering some of what i listed will be on the xbox 360 first .
they are great and all. but they are coming to every console (or PS3 and X2 at least) so they don't give a certain system that advantage. if you say PS3 is getting Y game. another will say X2 is getting it too. so what is the point in comparing game offerings then?

it is true that X2 will be getting some of them first since PS3 haven't even launched yet, but that is only a limited advaantage to a couple of more months or so. at launch and for the holiday, PS3 will be getting many of the offerings appearing on X2. it should have a technically better performing and more launch games than X2 (which had to deal with many current-gen direct ports) that is the price you pay for getting out too early.

What makes the hundreth final fantasy so much more inspired than mass effect ?
not to talk about sequels in particular, but I wanted to mention to those who think of FF as a continuing sequels of one game. those who think that obviously don't know the gmaes (notice I didn't say series) at all and only judge by the name. SE keep the name because it has its huge weight behind it. but in reality, every FF game is new and fresh. they have totally different worlds, designs, stories, characters, monsters, effects, etc. there are very general comcepts that are present in each like calling money 'gils' and some of the summon names depending on their elements (though they look and behave totally different). some spell names are present as well like elemental names (which by the way get repeated in many RPGs).

as for sequels, I absolutely love to be given another chance at playing incredible games after I've done everything in the previous one. how many hear would literally jump for joy for only reading the inititals Z.O.E.3?!
we aren't exactly talking about annual sports games (which even those offer new things every time). this of course goes for everyone that complain about sequels. hey, if you don't like them, don't buy them. they wouldn't be making them if they weren't selling. ;)

The Japanese USED to be great at RPGs. Now, much like the "rut" description that I've noted, they're regurgitating the same formulas over n' over again.
ah, I keep making that mistake; sorry, I should have said JRPGs since they are very different rom Wester RPGs. you know that the whole concept of what makes a game an 'RPG' is totally different in the West than it is in the East? some gamers won't even consider one side as an RPG to begin with. lol.

by that, I am sure you meant the likes of Jade Empire, Dark Alliance, Baldor's Gate, KOTOR, and what not as being much better RPGs (or should I say action RPGs?) than 'traditional' or Japanese RPGs. ;)
The only reason I can see why you think sony had a better showing is because your simply a fan of thier games. The rest of your comments read off as totalty slanted
that has some truth to it sure. that reason effects your judgement as well as many long time gamers. we spent so many years playing certain series of games. I bet there isn't a Ninty fan on earth who wouldn't dance when learning there is a new Mario thingy coming out. why do you think many of us are dead set on systems before they even launch? because we know we'll be getting what we love (hence, this may be brought back to the sequel discussion). I've been a crazed Tekken fan since 95. how can I not get excited about a new Tekken coming out with new characters, more movies, better visuals, new CG endings, advancing the story, etc.? (*secret messege* you can do that by showing me the E3 footage again...)

that is one side of the excitement. the other is anticipating the new games. Gears of War, Heavenly Sword, Red Steel are only three examples of the brand new games coming out for the new systems that people are very excited about. who narrow will someone be when saying GoW is just another shooter, HS is just another 3rd action adventure/fighter and Red Steel is just another FPS? what? does anybody really expect every game to be an Okami, SotC, Katamari and Nintendog? I want that too, but get in the real world; innovation doesn't pop up every day. that is why it is sought after and wanted so damn much.
Yet the amount of sequals sony has isn't uninspired ? What makes mgs 4 (thats 4 of them now) any diffrent than Gears of war ?
you can phrase that as: what makes X game better than Y". in which the answer would be much clearer and simpler.

[gljvd]

I disagree , I think each mgs is overly hyped.

See how it works Infernal . This is what i'm pointing out . I'm more excited about the game play in gears of war , than I am in mgs4 . I think gears of war is better than mgs4.

Notisce how I say I think . I don't make general comments that ms games are all uninspired while sony's aren't .

To me ffs haven't been inspired since ff6 and I have never enjoyed a mgs game in my life.

But they are my opinions .

Obviously there are people who agree with him and people who agree with me. After all Gears of war was talked about greatly by everyone , it allways won multiplayer sometimes action game also. Point is it won alot of awards and my playing it showed me how fun it was. If they can keep the quality of those multiplayer maps consistant , it may be the first system to actually have a real sniper class.

I found it very inspired when I played it .

Again notice how I actually use my opinion and refrain from grand statments that everything sony showed was uninspired.

[Infernal]

Eye of judgement was relaly cool , but it wasn't palyable and extremely bugy
Havent heard anything about bugs from anyone you have a link? Then again im not too interested in the game myself. Could be cool online though.
Ms showed up for this holiday season , sony didn't . Ms has great line up from now till e3 2007 and further and at e3 2007 ms will be showing new stuff.
And so will Sony. And what do you mean, Sony will be out this holiday season. Lineups are opinions guys and shouldnt be stated as facts, no one can argue who has a better line up because it all depends on your personal game preferences.
As I've siad , just say you like the sony games more . Just dont claim that everyone does , don't say that sony has inspired games and the spout off sequals , because that is just bs and bias .

Say you like what is on the system more than on the ms system and that is fine. I understand that comment. That comment makes sense and is honest.
JVD I have been asking you to do that forever, every time you see something on PS3 you just say something about 360 and say its better to everyone. Thats your opinion, dont state it as fact. Also dont ask other people to do what you cant seem to do yourself.
For this holiday season the ps3 can't compete at all against ms's line up .
Once again, opinion, dont state it as fact.

[Viper]

It was buggy in that many times the guy tried to move something and nothing happened. I don't know how final the hardware is though so I can't knock it for that yet.

[gljvd]

they are great and all. but they are coming to every console (or PS3 and X2 at least) so they don't give a certain system that advantage. if you say PS3 is getting Y game. another will say X2 is getting it too. so what is the point in comparing game offerings then?

But it is an advantage for this holdiay season. When I ask for my x mass gifts as will most americans . I can ask for those games on the xbox 360. i most likely can't for the ps3.

Yes its only a limited time diffrence. But look at the sales of the gta 3 series on ps3 compared to xbox and you can see the time really effects the sales.

not to talk about sequels in particular, but I wanted to mention to those who think of FF as a continuing sequels of one game. those who think that obviously don't know the gmaes (notice I didn't say series) at all and only judge by the name

Well there is now a sequal . however I agree with your point . However , I hope you can look past that and see what my point is

as for sequels, I absolutely love to be given another chance at playing incredible games after I've done everything in the previous one. how many hear would literally jump for joy for only reading the inititals Z.O.E.3?!
we aren't exactly talking about annual sports games (which even those offer new things every time). this of course goes for everyone that complain about sequels. hey, if you don't like them, don't buy them. they wouldn't be making them if they weren't selling.


I agree with this , however i take offense against the uninspired tag . What makes gears of war uninspired yet a sony game inspired ? That is whats at question now.

I said in my other posts about nintendo , the best games were sequals , yet i can't wait to play all of them. If its a good game , its a good game as I've said .

that has some truth to it sure. that reason effects your judgement as well as many long time gamers. we spent so many years playing certain series of games. I bet there isn't a Ninty fan on earth who wouldn't dance when learning there is a new Mario thingy coming out.


I certianly agree as you can see by my nintendo posting . However I will never claim that ms's line up is uninspired yet nintendo's filled with sequals are inspired. I'm not going to make generlizations (sp?) That is what I take offense too.



you can phrase that as: what makes X game better than Y". in which the answer would be much clearer and simpler.



That is the point . However the thing i was discusing was the instance by the poster that ms's line up was uninspired and sony and nintendo's were.

I don't agree with that . I think they all had great showings and lots of fun games. However for this upcoming holiday season , ms had the most .


Anyway its allways fun talking to you as you have good poitns and thoughts .

[Infernal]

Obviously there are people who agree with him and people who agree with me.
Exactly, so what the hell is everyone arguing about? Everyones just arguing opinion, some people prefer certain games, no one can argue that.

[LiquidEagle]

PS3 exclusives:

November 17, 2006 Warhawk Sony Computer Entertainment
November 17, 2006 Resistance: Fall of Man Sony Computer Entertainment
November 17, 2006 Fatal Inertia KOEI
November 17, 2006 EA Sports Fight Night Round 3 Electronic Arts
(devs say this may as well be a new one, but we'll see...)
November 17, 2006 flOw (PS3 Hub Download) *TBA
November 17, 2006 Full Auto 2: Battlelines SEGA
November 17, 2006 Ridge Racer 7 Namco
November 17, 2006 Bladestorm: The Hundred Years War KOEI

Sports games will always be present, so look at the rest of the launch lineup (according to IGN) and see how many unique games are headed to PS3 at launch.

Here's the 360 launch lineup, with ports underlined and parts of a series in bold.

Amped 3 (2K Sports)
Call of Duty 2 (Activision)
Condemned: Criminal Origins (Sega)
Gun (Activision)
Kameo: Elements of Power (Microsoft Game Studios)
Need for Speed Most Wanted (Electronic Arts)
Perfect Dark Zero (Microsoft Game Studios)
Peter Jackson's King Kong (Ubisoft)
Project Gotham Racing 3 (Microsoft Game Studios)
Quake 4 (Activision)
Ridge Racer 6 (Namco)
Tony Hawk's American Wasteland (Activision)

I didn't bother with sports games since it's pretty much a given... So if you totally ignore sports games in the XBox 360 lineup, that leaves 2 games that are exclusive and original titles (Condemned and Kameo), but Condemned is already out on PC now. PS3's launch has Resistance, Fatal Inertia, flOw (arcade game), Bladestorm, and Warhawk. How can you be so down on PS3's launch when by your standards the 360 launch was even worse? "Then games came later," right? Let's see, the 360 got Fight Night round 3 -- a port, GRAW -- a port, and Oblivion -- also a port. How many of all these games were first party? PGR3, Kameo, and PD0? I don't think any first party games have come out since then, have they? Sony will be putting out Heavenly Sword soon, which is already more than Microsoft seems to have put out for Xbox. Nevermind the fact that Sony's still supporting the PS2, unlike Microsoft cutting off the Xbox!

It's too much work for a useless point to look at all the PS3 games that aren't ports of 360 games, and it's really wearing me out that you have this completely dim and narrow view of the PS3 as having only one option (failure) for so many things but yet the 360 is this miracle platform that will exceed expectations on all accounts.

Why is the 4th metal gear solid game inspired and the first gears of war isn't

Its simple fan boy logic that is painting one as inspired and the other isn't .

I hate to see you make these uninformed statements (I'm convinced you've never touched a Metal Gear) and then say that the only way somebody can disagree with you is to be a "fan boy." Why is the 4th MGS game inspired and Gears of War isn't? That's a good question, something Epic should probably be asking themselves. Every new MGS has reinvented its attack on the genre and its message, and we've had something 90% (the other 10% is what we love about MGS and want to keep the same :-D) different to look forward to in each entry. Since you don't sound like you own a PS2 even, I don't expect you to understand that, but there's a reason why people got in your way at E3 so they could stop and watch a 15-minute video every hour of an upcoming game. It's the best display of a compelling game, and I have to wonder why you're considering the opposite given all this. I don't like to call a bias and I never use the word fan boy (unless quoting), but it's inescapable that you're showing some severe slant, dude.

[gljvd]

Havent heard anything about bugs from anyone you have a link? Then again im not too interested in the game myself. Could be cool online though

Um watch the press confrence. Yes its not indictive of final hardware , however it was really bad

And so will Sony. And what do you mean, Sony will be out this holiday season. Lineups are opinions guys and shouldnt be stated as facts, no one can argue who has a better line up because it all depends on your personal game preferences.


Sony's big guns are all next year , assians creed , hs , mgs4 . The only game getting good hype that isnt multiconsole is resistance from sony.

JVD I have been asking you to do that forever, every time you see something on PS3 you just say something about 360 and say its better to everyone. Thats your opinion, dont state it as fact. Also dont ask other people to do what you cant seem to do yourself.

No , actually I come in to defend ms from constant attacks. Like in this thread a poster called ms's line up unsinpired.

There are certian games I do'nt like ( I don't like mgs4) but i like heavenly sword , I do like the eye of judgemnet and talked abut the possibilitys on these forums

Once again, opinion, dont state it as fact.


Looking at the lists it is fact.

Ms has games that have won many awards at e3 this holiday season. Ms's line up has many unique games that are highly anticapted. They also have many games that are apearing on the ps3 months ahead of hte ps3 versions. The ps3 big titles have all been pushed back to 2007. The sole stand out is Resistance. Ms already has a slew of titles out that will be reduced in price by the holiday season to help bulster thier line up. Sony doesn't have this .

There is no bias in this . Looking at release lists from the sony rep and from the ms rep and ms is leading the way.

Of course sony is launching to a limited audiance and ms is in thier second holiday so this skews things .

[Viano]

I disagree , I think each mgs is overly hyped.

See how it works Infernal . This is what i'm pointing out . I'm more excited about the game play in gears of war , than I am in mgs4 . I think gears of war is better than mgs4.

Notisce how I say I think . I don't make general comments that ms games are all uninspired while sony's aren't .

To me ffs haven't been inspired since ff6 and I have never enjoyed a mgs game in my life.

But they are my opinions .

Obviously there are people who agree with him and people who agree with me. After all Gears of war was talked about greatly by everyone , it allways won multiplayer sometimes action game also. Point is it won alot of awards and my playing it showed me how fun it was. If they can keep the quality of those multiplayer maps consistant , it may be the first system to actually have a real sniper class.

I found it very inspired when I played it .

Again notice how I actually use my opinion and refrain from grand statments that everything sony showed was uninspired.


guess you don't enjoy movie nor reading books.

and inspire what.. the excitment of killing?

just my opinions so hold your fire.

[LiquidEagle]

Ms showed up for this holiday season , sony didn't . Ms has great line up from now till e3 2007 and further and at e3 2007 ms will be showing new stuff.

Sony will be showing us metal gear solid 4 again .

...And Sony will have nothing new, you must be right! I'm literally shaking my head at this logic (or lack of it) you're using, saying MS will have new stuff at E3 while Sony will be 100% recycling games that they aren't even publishing! Do you honestly use this kind of judgement to validate your statements and sell products to people? This wouldn't be half as bad if I didn't imagine you spouting the same stuff to impressionable kids at a game store...

[gljvd]

Dude , this isn't ms's launch . They launched a year ago and they competed against no one .

Sony is competing with ms's 2006 holiday line up , not 2005.

Aside from that , All the titles u listed up there for ms , wil lbe much cheaper this holiday season. Actually both cod2 and graw are over 1m sold now , Im sure many of the other launch titles are close also . Along with many of them (like king kong and other crap) getting big price drops . Ms will have 20-30$ games for the system already. Some of them will be high quality games some of them wont . But it will make the system much more attractive to consumers.

[gljvd]

...And Sony will have nothing new, you must be right! I'm literally shaking my head at this logic (or lack of it) you're using, saying MS will have new stuff at E3 while Sony will be 100% recycling games that they aren't even publishing! Do you honestly use this kind of judgement to validate your statements and sell products to people? This wouldn't be half as bad if I didn't imagine you spouting the same stuff to impressionable kids at a game store...

Dude chill out . This thread is specificly about e3 and what has happened becasue of it .

Sony certianly can announce new titles. HOwever they haven't and they certianly didn't do it at e3 which this topic is about.

Chill out and stick with the thread instead of trolling

[Infernal]

Just one question. Does anyone doubt that all three systems will sell out this holiday season? Because honestly I cant see all three of them not selling out. I really dont think the titles that come out this year are really going to matter, its next year that the system war truly begins.

[Handycrap101]

Just a question a for you gljvd and a suggestion for everyone else. First, gljvd, before I begin to say anything, where you at E3 and where you able to try out games for yourself hands on?

And for everyone else, take it down a notch in terms of this big argument... Z is watching the thread and I wouldn't put it against him to lock it up.

[gljvd]

I've already said all 3 will sell out this holiday season .

however i think many under estimate the importance of this holiday seasons games.

This will be the second wave of cheap titles on the 360 next holiday season. Will will have the launch titles (the good ones will all be platnium sellers at 20$ish) we will also have this years holiday games at platnium seller status. I'd be surprised if For x mass 2008 we don't see

Gears of war , 20$ , Call of duty 2 20$ , ghost recon 20$ , Dead rising 20$ , Lost planet 20$ , Call of duty 3 20$ , Splinter cell 20$ , Rainbow 6 vegas 20$ and so on.

Sony on the other hand will only have this years titles as the cheap games for selling to people .

Working at retail you understand how important these titles are .

Many people will buy a system after its first price drop and not the hot new games , but the cheap old games . Picking up an xbox core in 2008 for 150$ and then getting 2 great platnium sellers will be a big selling point .

[Viano]

Dude , this isn't ms's launch . They launched a year ago and they competed against no one .

Sony is competing with ms's 2006 holiday line up , not 2005.

Aside from that , All the titles u listed up there for ms , wil lbe much cheaper this holiday season. Actually both cod2 and graw are over 1m sold now , Im sure many of the other launch titles are close also . Along with many of them (like king kong and other crap) getting big price drops . Ms will have 20-30$ games for the system already. Some of them will be high quality games some of them wont . But it will make the system much more attractive to consumers.

I found it that you are trying to off-topic everyday, and you're not even a pro xbox fanboy because all the "mY xBoX rUleZ" from others sound much better than your bollthyts.

[gljvd]

Just a question a for you gljvd and a suggestion for everyone else. First, gljvd, before I begin to say anything, where you at E3 and where you able to try out games for yourself hands on?

And for everyone else, take it down a notch in terms of this big argument... Z is watching the thread and I wouldn't put it against him to lock it up.

Yes , i've stated many times that I was .

I loved gears of war , I loved playing the wii (got to play zelda , tenis and mario) I hated warhawk and loved heavenly sword ,


My fav thing was spore :-) it was fun , to bad its delayed.

[LiquidEagle]

Dude , this isn't ms's launch . They launched a year ago and they competed against no one .
a lack of next-gen competition is your explanation for a lackluster launch? Doesn't cut it. I'll leave it alone since I proved my point. Also, nobody's addressed the fact that every big game to come out on it since then has been a port as well. Oblivion, GRAW, and FNR3.

Sony is competing with ms's 2006 holiday line up , not 2005.
I never said they weren't, but the issue arose about a launch lineup and I commented like you asked. It also says something that Sony's launching a new console and competing with a 2nd-gen holiday lineup, no?

Aside from that , All the titles u listed up there for ms , wil lbe much cheaper this holiday season. Actually both cod2 and graw are over 1m sold now , Im sure many of the other launch titles are close also . Along with many of them (like king kong and other crap) getting big price drops . Ms will have 20-30$ games for the system already. Some of them will be high quality games some of them wont . But it will make the system much more attractive to consumers.
Got proof of this? Again you're assuming that MS will implement a Platinum Sellers system to combat the PS3 launch but there's no evidence of that at all yet. $20 - $30 games is a stretch and there's no proof to back that up either. You also haven't explained how this will garner any interest comparable to a hardware launch, something that's never happened before.

Dude chill out . This thread is specificly about e3 and what has happened becasue of it .
I understand that, but I responded to your quote about E3 2007. If you make claims that I feel are outrageous, even if they're on a sort of tangent (but not really since next year's E3 is very relevant), I'm going to respond.

Sony certianly can announce new titles. HOwever they haven't and they certianly didn't do it at e3 which this topic is about.
Eye of Judgement was a new title, but they didn't really need to announce anything new since they've shown off works in progress since last year's E3. Things are different for Sony since they announced next-gen offerings the same time MS did, only Sony's console is coming out later and those games they showed are getting more time.

Chill out and stick with the thread instead of trolling
...

[Viano]

lOl Eagle "...", loL.

[gljvd]

a lack of next-gen competition is your explanation for a lackluster launch? Doesn't cut it. I'll leave it alone since I proved my point. Also, nobody's addressed the fact that every big game to come out on it since then has been a port as well. Oblivion, GRAW, and FNR3.



What was sony's excuse with the ps2 ? just shit software in general ? We will go with that excuse.

However what ms's launch has to do with sony's ps3 launch is beyond me. Sony isn't competing against those titles .

Most likely those titles will be bargianed priced anyway and they will make up the 20$ range for ms

I never said they weren't, but the issue arose about a launch lineup and I commented like you asked. It also says something that Sony's launching a new console and competing with a 2nd-gen holiday lineup, no?


Yes , sony is launching against xbox 360's 06 line up , so why post ms's 05 line up ? Obviously coming second has its advantages , devs have been developing xbox 360 games and can port them to the ps3 and ps3 gets games with good grpahics on par with ms's second showing of games.

however what this has to do with ms's line up isn't clear. Sony isn't going up against those and while they were enough for gamers last year , ms didn't have any next gen consoles to compete with. If sony launched with that line up they would be dead in the water as there will be 2 other new systems one of which have a full set of games .

Got proof of this? Again you're assuming that MS will implement a Platinum Sellers system to combat the PS3 launch but there's no evidence of that at all yet. $20 - $30 games is a stretch and there's no proof to back that up either. You also haven't explained how this will garner any interest comparable to a hardware launch, something that's never happened before.
Prices of some games have already droped . We've also been told in july we are reorginizing the xbox 360 section to allow for multiple price segments . We are assuming we will have 60 and 40$ games in july . They will be less later on.

Do you believe games like amped wont drop in price ? or king kong ? As for the platnium seller status , its a good marketing push and will surely happen if ms has enough million sellers .

I understand that, but I responded to your quote about E3 2007. If you make claims that I feel are outrageous, even if they're on a sort of tangent (but not really since next year's E3 is very relevant), I'm going to respond.


My quote about e3 2007 is simple that what we've seen from e3 2006 ms has a great line up from now untill e3 2007 and beyond . While sony doesn't.

I never made any claims on what will be shown at e3 2007. Please point out where I did .

Eye of Judgement was a new title, but they didn't really need to announce anything new since they've shown off works in progress since last year's E3. Things are different for Sony since they announced next-gen offerings the same time MS did, only Sony's console is coming out later and those games they showed are getting more time

Sony didn't show new titles (yes eye of judgement that was very bugy and a eye toy game)

They showed assians creed , resistance and a few others. So yea they showed a few new things . However the big 2 from them wree still hs and mgs4 . Followed by the ff announcment and AC . Ms showed many more new things than this .

[LinpinWangyFoot]

What was sony's excuse with the ps2 ? just shit software in general ? We will go with that excuse.

However what ms's launch has to do with sony's ps3 launch is beyond me. Sony isn't competing against those titles .

Most likely those titles will be bargianed priced anyway and they will make up the 20$ range for ms



Yes , sony is launching against xbox 360's 06 line up , so why post ms's 05 line up ? Obviously coming second has its advantages , devs have been developing xbox 360 games and can port them to the ps3 and ps3 gets games with good grpahics on par with ms's second showing of games.

however what this has to do with ms's line up isn't clear. Sony isn't going up against those and while they were enough for gamers last year , ms didn't have any next gen consoles to compete with. If sony launched with that line up they would be dead in the water as there will be 2 other new systems one of which have a full set of games .

Prices of some games have already droped . We've also been told in july we are reorginizing the xbox 360 section to allow for multiple price segments . We are assuming we will have 60 and 40$ games in july . They will be less later on.

Do you believe games like amped wont drop in price ? or king kong ? As for the platnium seller status , its a good marketing push and will surely happen if ms has enough million sellers .

oh man you make me feel sooooooooooooo mad when you mension MS.



My quote about e3 2007 is simple that what we've seen from e3 2006 ms has a great line up from now untill e3 2007 and beyond . While sony doesn't.

I never made any claims on what will be shown at e3 2007. Please point out where I did .


Sony didn't show new titles (yes eye of judgement that was very bugy and a eye toy game)

They showed assians creed , resistance and a few others. So yea they showed a few new things . However the big 2 from them wree still hs and mgs4 . Followed by the ff announcment and AC . Ms showed many more new things than this .

[LiquidEagle]

In regards to your first point, I ended by saying that it says something when Sony's launch lineup is competing with Xbox360's 2nd-gen lineup, and it's doing just fine.

Prices of some games have already droped . We've also been told in july we are reorginizing the xbox 360 section to allow for multiple price segments . We are assuming we will have 60 and 40$ games in july . They will be less later on.

Do you believe games like amped wont drop in price ? or king kong ? As for the platnium seller status , its a good marketing push and will surely happen if ms has enough million sellers .
I hope you know what they say about assuming... Amped and King Kong going down in price doesn't matter at all -- you called them crap earlier so why does their price really matter? Yes platinum seller status & budget titles would be nice, but that doesn't mean MS is gonna do it...

I never made any claims on what will be shown at e3 2007. Please point out where I did .
Okay...
Ms showed up for this holiday season , sony didn't . Ms has great line up from now till e3 2007 and further and at e3 2007 ms will be showing new stuff.

Sony will be showing us metal gear solid 4 again .
You typed that, right? With that you're saying that MS will be showing us new stuff in E3 2007 (which is perfectly fine to say), and say "Sony will be showing us MGS4 again." as though that's their only card. If that isn't a skewed perspective then I must be out of the loop...
Sony didn't show new titles (yes eye of judgement that was very bugy and a eye toy game)

They showed assians creed , resistance and a few others. So yea they showed a few new things . However the big 2 from them wree still hs and mgs4 . Followed by the ff announcment and AC . Ms showed many more new things than this .
Assassin's Creed was 1UP's PS3 game of show and was on a lot of peoples' lists for best game of show, so I'd say it had a pretty strong showing too (stronger than HS, as strong as that was). Sony's still working on hardware so they don't have as much room to show pure games like MS did, yet they still showed an enormous amount of support for PS3 and some pretty sweet looking PS2/PSP games. Like I said, Sony didn't need to show that many new titles since the ones they showed at E3 '05 were still works in progress and we got a real update on them now, and they fleshed out their launch lineup a lot more. They can't show us a whole new generation of games if the first generation hasn't even launched yet!

I'm done with this though...this is too aggrevating for me :honor:

[Killing Moon]

The Japanese still do RPG's way better then anyone else in my opinion, they are hard to compare on the same level as there are major diffence between JRPG's and WRPG's.

I believe that there's a distinct difference between making a good Role Playing Game and just being able to tell a story.

Japanese developers seem more keen on the latter than the former. And considering that the stories mostly seem to be horribly cliche'd, not much there either. You're either reading mounds of text, or sitting there watching overly drawn out CG FMV cinemas.

That's not an RPG, really. That's a virtual storybook, or a movie.

[LinpinWangyFoot]

if you persue excitement you lose depth. western devs beware

[VG Aficionado]

They showed assians creed , resistance and a few others. So yea they showed a few new things . However the big 2 from them wree still hs and mgs4 . Followed by the ff announcment and AC . Ms showed many more new things than this .:laugh: Yes, we all know that quantity is always better than quality ;)

Not that I bothered reading your posts anyway (that was inside Liquid's post :cowboy:) You're so damn biased and write in such an annoying way and post so much FUD and deliberately piss other members off and don't even try to write properly that you're damn boring and frustrating to read and reply to, so I'll just keep on ignoring you even though you seem to be in a posting spree to ruin PS3's reputation in this forum or something. You're not going to be very popular I'm afraid, and not because everyone else is a blind Sony fanboy!

[gljvd]

In regards to your first point, I ended by saying that it says something when Sony's launch lineup is competing with Xbox360's 2nd-gen lineup, and it's doing just fine.


By who's standards ? None of sony's launch line up won awards at e3 .

I hope you know what they say about assuming... Amped and King Kong going down in price doesn't matter at all -- you called them crap earlier so why does their price really matter? Yes platinum seller status & budget titles would be nice, but that doesn't mean MS is gonna do it...


Cod2 already droped in price, cod2 goty came out with added maps for the same price. Both have 10 rebates on them for the first week of june with a price drop schedualed for july

You typed that, right? With that you're saying that MS will be showing us new stuff in E3 2007 (which is perfectly fine to say), and say "Sony will be showing us MGS4 again." as though that's their only card. If that isn't a skewed perspective then I must be out of the loop...


Are you saying they wont ? It wont be thier only card , however it will once again be one of thier biggest , for the third year of game shows .

Assassin's Creed
Febuary at the earliest .

So this doesn't have any effect on on this holiday , yes it will be out before e3 2007 . However you have AC , HS as thier big titles till e3 2007.

Sony's still working on hardware
The cell was completed before the xenon. Devs hae had them longer.

The rsx is based on the 7900 family and devs have had gpus from that family for longer than devs have had xenos . Alos the rsx has already tapped out.

Like I said, Sony didn't need to show that many new titles since the ones they showed at E3 '05 were still works in progress and we got a real update on them now, and they fleshed out their launch lineup a lot more. They can't show us a whole new generation of games if the first generation hasn't even launched yet!



Sony did a poor job showing us whats coming out after the launch. Its all ports from the xbox 360 and 2 big titles .

Ms on the other hand showed us award winning titles for this holiday season and great games for early 2007 like mass effect , bio shock , and lost planet.


I'm done here too. As I've already discused the original points enough.

ALl these secondary posts are just nonsense

[masteratt]

Like. No. Other.

SONY

Get used to it.

[gljvd]

Originally Posted by venomv
The Japanese still do RPG's way better then anyone else in my opinion, they are hard to compare on the same level as there are major diffence between JRPG's and WRPG's.


I disagree , Japanese devs have yet to show me anything as good as the ultima series (Even though 9 was a dog) and the elder scrolls are all above and beyond what has come out from japan .

The problem with the japanese rpgs , is that your just playing a story adventure game with almost strait foward advancement .

Western rpgs are more open ended where your actually role playing .

[Viano]

to killing moon:

I think people have different ways to percieve (sp?) things. However, if you think about it, JRPG and WRPG are actually aiming at different things or feeling. The "J"RPGish stories could be done using different art styles or textures etc to make it more apealing to the people who only play WRPG's, but then again, people love different things.

there are thousand kinds of noodle in different countries and some taste bad for some people some taste good for some people, yet we all call it "Noodle" in general.

[Gaul]

My fav thing was spore it was fun , to bad its delayed.

how was that game anyway? I'm thinking about getting it but i was curious on how the multiplayer was going to work.

(sorry for being offtopic)

[Zer0-Sum]

Guys guys guys. Opinions are shared here, not fired at each other like shot gun rounds. One person likes FPS's and another person likes stealth games. I like both.

I like Gears of War and think it stinks that it is never coming to PS3, where it would most likely look better(in my opinion, I have nothing to back that up YET). But oh well. We get FFXIII and they dont, pretty much ever.

I am still not buying a 360 least I get a whole bunch more cash in my bank account. Hell, lets all admit freely that fs anyone of us won the lottery, we would get EVERY video game system known to man with the hugest Hi-Def TV out there. The PS3, 360, and Wii all hook up to that new 1080p 120 FPS Hi-Def TV with every good game made. Now that is the stuff.

[Old_Timer!]

Wow this thread has really gone off track, the original post was what the Japanese Devs thought about working on the systems so far. And we all know they aren't supporting it(360) as heavily as the Devs abroad. :queer:
Now that said, most of the industry still believes that PS3 will set the standard. And with Sony having the most powerful system of the 3, plus having a movement sensitive controller they got all the bases covered. I percieve devs making games on the PS3 and downgrading them for the other systems, for Wii that would be Graphics wise, for the 360 it would be motion.

[Zer0-Sum]

In Japan:

PS3 = Number 1
Wii = Number 2
360 = Number 3

It is obvious what will happen there. I think most of the Japanese Devs just dont want to invest a bunch of cash for a game on 360 that will only sell really well in America and Europe. It would be a loss for them if it does not do well at home in japan. Sad for 360, but oh well. it is getting SOME japanese love, but nottoo much at all.

[Z]

Hell, lets all admit freely that fs anyone of us won the lottery, we would get EVERY video game system known to man with the hugest Hi-Def TV out there. The PS3, 360, and Wii all hook up to that new 1080p 120 FPS Hi-Def TV with every good game made. Now that is the stuff.
and a model for each one (with unique theme clothes)! and a cat! I want a cat dammit!

get back on topic. don't let me delete every coming off topic post please- unless you are sadistic!

[venomv]

Man, you guys have posted about 100 posts in like 3 hours, I can't keep up.

I disagree , Japanese devs have yet to show me anything as good as the ultima series (Even though 9 was a dog) and the elder scrolls are all above and beyond what has come out from japan .

The problem with the japanese rpgs , is that your just playing a story adventure game with almost strait foward advancement .

Western rpgs are more open ended where your actually role playing .

The only Ultima game I have been able to play for any period of time was 9 (and my computer suddenly refused to play it and I couldn't fix it) and it wasn't to bad. I have played some of the older ones, but they couldn't hold my attention. Ultima Online I have played though, I love that, but MMO's are a differnt story entirly. The only ES's games I've played are Morrowind and Oblivion, I thought Morrowind sucked, but Oblivion has grown on me, but both lack an engaging story. Which is the reason I like JRPG's, almost no matter the genre story are what get me. Which is why my favorite series are FF and MGS, well and Twisted Metal, which has a good backstory at times.

[Killing Moon]

to killing moon:

I think people have different ways to percieve (sp?) things. However, if you think about it, JRPG and WRPG are actually aiming at different things or feeling. The "J"RPGish stories could be done using different art styles or textures etc to make it more apealing to the people who only play WRPG's, but then again, people love different things.

there are thousand kinds of noodle in different countries and some taste bad for some people some taste good for some people, yet we all call it "Noodle" in general.
I hear this excuse quite a lot when this subject comes up, y'know.

Seriously, most of these Japanese RPGs aren't RPG's at all. Actual GAMEPLAY within the realm has to come into focus and this is where they fail miserably. Mostly, not all of them, of course.

While Western RPGs have drab stories, the actual gameplay resembles what an RPG is supposed to be in the first place. You're spending countless hours in many different aspects of what makes up the game world. KOTOR and Oblivion are prime examples of this.

The most "gameplay" that you'll ever seem to get from Japanese "Story Books" are leveling up and moving through random battles through and overhead view map screen, really.

I refuse to be complacent about it just for the sake of being nice. J-RPGs aren't RPGs in the slightest. They're storybook games and or bad, melodramatic, cliche'd movies.

Okay, that's all I'll say on the matter for now.

[digital neXus]

Killing Moon, have you ever played a real live RPG based on book, a game master, cards, dices..... For example, if I am a game master, and you are a palladin, i could take you through my story, and attack you any time I wish. And everything in that attack depends what number will come out by throwing dices (Offence or Defence). That kind of dice throwing is generated randomly ingame, of course in game you have an element of random evading. J-RPGs are sticking to the real path of RPG gaming.

[Infernal]

I hear this excuse quite a lot when this subject comes up, y'know.

Seriously, most of these Japanese RPGs aren't RPG's at all. Actual GAMEPLAY within the realm has to come into focus and this is where they fail miserably. Mostly, not all of them, of course.

While Western RPGs have drab stories, the actual gameplay resembles what an RPG is supposed to be in the first place. You're spending countless hours in many different aspects of what makes up the game world. KOTOR and Oblivion are prime examples of this.

The most "gameplay" that you'll ever seem to get from Japanese "Story Books" are leveling up and moving through random battles through and overhead view map screen, really.

I refuse to be complacent about it just for the sake of being nice. J-RPGs aren't RPGs in the slightest. They're storybook games and or bad, melodramatic, cliche'd movies.

Okay, that's all I'll say on the matter for now.
Well your arguing the definition on an RPG here. Considering the original video game RPG's were more like what JRPG's are now, I would have to say that an RPG is defined as what a JRPG is.
I personally consider western RPG's to be more like action adventure games. I guess technically you are "playing a role" and it is a "game" but then again you play a role in God of War and thats not an RPG. Western RPG's are more about creating your own path with less of a storyline and more about the character customization and battles. While JRPG's tend to have more linear storylines that pull you through the game while you follow the role of a person or group of people. Personally I prefer JRPG's because I feel western RPG's are too open ended and theres nothing pulling you through the game (same reason I hated FFXI). The storyline just doesnt keep me interested because it seems that you become too engulfed in just trying to level your character and get good items, that you never move on in the game. Anyway thats my thought on the matter.

[digital neXus]

Western developer people don't have fantasy, they are hiring or stealing from Eastern people.

[Applefiend]

The only ES's games I've played are Morrowind and Oblivion, I thought Morrowind sucked, but Oblivion has grown on me, but both lack an engaging story.

I think I'm alone in thinking Oblivion sucks, really badly.

First up is the constant move*load off disk*move*load off disk way the game works out doors. If Final Fantasy did that I'd chuck it out a window.

Then there's the face mapping etc. If this is next generation, why do the faces on MGS3 on my antique PS2 look better?

So I level up, and the entire world levels up around me you say... Then... Why bother. Isn't it great playing DQ8 and getting your ass kicked by a slime, so you work hard, get tough, then can beat up anyone... Kinda the point of the game.

Complete lack of engaging characters, storyline, boss battles.

Terrible, terrible fight system, I'm used to better.

Awful horse riding, horses in Shadow of the Colossus are way better.

And as far as Open Ended RPGs go, why would you choose this over say... World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, yadda yadda. Offline ones seem so dated. I'd kill for a good next gen MMORPG, seems like Oblivion is a huge lost opportunity.

But you know, can't say anything bad about Oblivion, the Elder Scrolls Mafia will get you. :)

And yes, I'll hate it on PS3 too. Great Western RPG, there it is, World of Warcraft. Biggest game in the world probably.

[OmniCloud]

Wow apple...from all the reviews I thought the game was pretty good...I'm more into FF anyway. DQ8 and Dark Cloud 2 were also 2 of my favorite RPGs the gen...

[Gaul]

I am a big fan of the Elder Scrolls series. It jus't cant be denied that the game is amazing. Some would consider it revolutionary. I know morrowind rocked my socks when i first played it.

WoW is extremely fun though. I own it. I love it.

[Xerxes]

Morrowind sucked. The only reason I hated it was of the style it had and the gameplay. At times it seemed you were walking in a vast wasteland.

[Viano]

I hear this excuse quite a lot when this subject comes up, y'know.

Seriously, most of these Japanese RPGs aren't RPG's at all. Actual GAMEPLAY within the realm has to come into focus and this is where they fail miserably. Mostly, not all of them, of course.

While Western RPGs have drab stories, the actual gameplay resembles what an RPG is supposed to be in the first place. You're spending countless hours in many different aspects of what makes up the game world. KOTOR and Oblivion are prime examples of this.

The most "gameplay" that you'll ever seem to get from Japanese "Story Books" are leveling up and moving through random battles through and overhead view map screen, really.

I refuse to be complacent about it just for the sake of being nice. J-RPGs aren't RPGs in the slightest. They're storybook games and or bad, melodramatic, cliche'd movies.

Okay, that's all I'll say on the matter for now.


Sorry if i sounded like atkn loL, you should blame jvd loL.

It would probably be an excuse if both are aiming at the same thing/feeling.

I was just saying even they are both noodles, they are made for completely different tastes/kinda people in the world/people who use chopsticks and the one who don't/etc.

[venomv]

@Applefiend

My freind owns the game, and he bought a seroiusly nice computer mainly for it, so the load times for him (and me when I play it) are not bad at all about a quarter of a second or so. The facial animation and horse riding does suck horrably. And the battle system isn't be best, but works fine. I probably wouldn't buy the game for any more then $20 but its an ok game, like I said growing on me. It is cool to see the enimies fly when I smack them with my warhammer, that is probably the main reason I gave the game a chance, cause it looked so cool that you accually looked like you were doing damage, minus blood though.

[Applefiend]

I've got Oblivion for 360, probably played it for ten hours, you wonder: "So... when's the fun going to start". People talk about it like it's the second coming but frankly... It ain't all that.

The problem is I play a lot of RPGs, in packs of four, and I'm not much of a graphics whore, so the last thing I want to do is devote 20 hours of my gametime to a quest for only 500 gold coins or all that other crap Oblivion makes you do.

I'm going to quickly bang through the main quest then ebay it. It's nothing special.

[gljvd]

The only Ultima game I have been able to play for any period of time was 9 (and my computer suddenly refused to play it and I couldn't fix it) and it wasn't to bad. I have played some of the older ones, but they couldn't hold my attention. Ultima Online I have played though, I love that, but MMO's are a differnt story entirly. The only ES's games I've played are Morrowind and Oblivion, I thought Morrowind sucked, but Oblivion has grown on me, but both lack an engaging story. Which is the reason I like JRPG's, almost no matter the genre story are what get me. Which is why my favorite series are FF and MGS, well and Twisted Metal, which has a good backstory at times.


Well the old ultimas are limited by thier time frames.

http://www.u5lazarus.com/ ultima 5 remade using dungon siege . It looks pretty good considering the age of dungon siege.

Trust me the depth is still not rivaled on some of these .


As for your comments above. Thats the thing. You make the story. Your role playing and the store is made by you . Only the broad strokes are taken care of for you.

The JRPGS are more of an adventure game with rpg elements than they are a true rpg .

Basicly your just following the story from the begining to the end .

[gljvd]

10 years from now what will people remember-how many spells and weapons they had w/their character in oblivion? Or will they remember the ending to FFXll? I don't knock any developers-Ideas from all over the world is why PS2 is such a good console. And if the trend continues, so will PS3


Says who ?

I remember my days with the ultimas and the elder scrolls with great fondness.


Hell anything u spend 200 hours or so per game on , you will remember.

As i've said , Role playing is about playing a role. In ultima and the elder scrolls you make that role and then you play it . You controll the world. The only thigns you can't control are the big strokes.

In the JRPGs its very diffrent. Your given a role and you follow a scripted story from start to finish. Sure you can go from one town to another and get stronger before you go some where else , but you don't affect the story. If you have to kill person x , you have to kill him to move on.

WRPGs are very diffrent. You can kill x , or you can help him or hell you never have to go talk to x .

When ever I talk to people about the diffrences in rpgs , they tend to tell me that the storys are much easier to follow in a jrpg . Thats because in a ton of games the cgi used is very high. Its also because they have to follow a story and you have to watch it in cut scenes or in cgi. They don't seem to get that in wrpgs you play the role and its your world to do with as you please .

The other problem is the lvl of difficulty. FFs aren't long because they are hard and thought provoking on stat upgrades and weapons or because there is a great big story to play through.

They are long because of the tedious lvl grinding so you can go see the next cut scene or the next cgi part.

Its two diffrent schools. As tech catchs up to the WRPG makers dreams , you will see the WRPG pull ahead of the JRPG

[Viano]

Well the old ultimas are limited by thier time frames.

http://www.u5lazarus.com/ ultima 5 remade using dungon siege . It looks pretty good considering the age of dungon siege.

Trust me the depth is still not rivaled on some of these .


As for your comments above. Thats the thing. You make the story. Your role playing and the store is made by you . Only the broad strokes are taken care of for you.

The JRPGS are more of an adventure game with rpg elements than they are a true rpg .

Basicly your just following the story from the begining to the end .

Yeah, that is to say, all movies and books suck.

and are you starting arguing using opinions again?

[Gaul]

Hes right though. The point is your playing your own character, however the hell you want to play him. The game is the exact opposite of linear. You can do whatever you want, whenever you want.

[venomv]

I have never level gained in a FF, it's isn't required just a bit of stratigy is.

But WRPG's are defently gaining more from the new consoles as they are finally able to do what they have always to do. But I like the JRPG style better, and I do like WRPG's but they are just a filler for me till the next good JRPG comes out.

[Infernal]

Guys its pure opinion. Neither are going to "pull ahead of the other" or anything like that. I have and probably always will prefer JRPG's and many people agree with me. Then again some people hate JRPG's and prefer western RPG's, so thats just the way it will always be.

But if your going to argue that one isnt technically an RPG then a western RPG wouldnt be. The original RPG's were JRPG's thus an RPG video game is defined as a JRPG. Its just like that Hidden Valley Ranch commercial, they made it first, they made it the way Ranch is supposed to be.

[OmniCloud]

Says who ?

I remember my days with the ultimas and the elder scrolls with great fondness.


Hell anything u spend 200 hours or so per game on , you will remember.

As i've said , Role playing is about playing a role. In ultima and the elder scrolls you make that role and then you play it . You controll the world. The only thigns you can't control are the big strokes.

In the JRPGs its very diffrent. Your given a role and you follow a scripted story from start to finish. Sure you can go from one town to another and get stronger before you go some where else , but you don't affect the story. If you have to kill person x , you have to kill him to move on.

WRPGs are very diffrent. You can kill x , or you can help him or hell you never have to go talk to x .

When ever I talk to people about the diffrences in rpgs , they tend to tell me that the storys are much easier to follow in a jrpg . Thats because in a ton of games the cgi used is very high. Its also because they have to follow a story and you have to watch it in cut scenes or in cgi. They don't seem to get that in wrpgs you play the role and its your world to do with as you please .

The other problem is the lvl of difficulty. FFs aren't long because they are hard and thought provoking on stat upgrades and weapons or because there is a great big story to play through.

They are long because of the tedious lvl grinding so you can go see the next cut scene or the next cgi part.

Its two diffrent schools. As tech catchs up to the WRPG makers dreams , you will see the WRPG pull ahead of the JRPG

I see what your saying bre'...I just prefer being told a great story through a video game rather than walking through my own one-which is usually bland at best. I love leveling up, and I love stats and customization, but whats it all for in the end? All the great stories out there are somewhat "linear" in nature. Some games may have multiple endings and whatnot but they follow the same style as a movie basically-and that style my friend is never going anywhere. Plus like Infernal said with the hidden valley Ranch comparison (lol) Japan made it how it was supposed to be. Now if a game comes out that tells a FF calibur story while letting you customize you characters as much as say Oblivion-then we're in for a real RPG!!

[LaLiLuLeLo]

JRPGs for life.

[Applefiend]

JRPGs for life.

Ahem brother.

If Oblivion has all this great customization, why does any woman you make it in look like a bull dyke? :) Don't fancy yours much mate.

[D3adcell]

^Because you don't spend enough time customizing them?

[Applefiend]

OK, find me a picture of a woman in Oblivion who doesn't look like a security guard called Alice.

"The malls closing in 5 minutes,we gotta close the Oblivion Gates, move along".

Perhaps after a few hours of customisation I could make one that looks like a careworn spinster. OK, two types of women in Oblivion. Bull dykes, careworn spinsters.

OK, I'll shut up about Oblivion now. We get it, I didn't like that one. :)

[Gaul]

Perhaps after a few hours of customisation I could make one that looks like a careworn spinster. OK, two types of women in Oblivion. Bull dykes, careworn spinsters.


No way man. They are seeeeeeeeexay :buldge: :wank:

[venomv]

Lol, I hope you are not serious.

[Z]

OK, find me a picture of a woman in Oblivion who doesn't look like a security guard called Alice.
lol.

Japaneses or Western RPGS are still technically just that; RPGs. it's just dofferent styles. think of it as GT and Burnout. both racers. both play, and feel totally different. like Ace Combat, Afterburner and those flight sims. like Tekken and Street Fighter, like...*hears screams* Okay already, we get it! *scary stares*
>_<'

[Gaul]

No venom i was not serious. I've never actually played the game anyway.