The Rebirth Of Interactive Movies...

[Nameless]

I know there has been a lot of debate lately regarding the use of Blu-ray with the PS3. I would agree we will not see a large number of games taking advantage of the BD disc capacity in the near future. Perhaps this new storage medium could create new gaming genres due to the increased capacity...

What I envision is a rebirth of interactive movies:
An interactive movie is a video game composed entirely of full-motion video of either animated or live-action footage.
Due to limitations of disk space and memory this genre would not be able to make it to the "HD era" without the power of the PS3 CPU and Blu-ray disk space...

Let's take this a step further and consider a convergence of current videogames like the MGS series and high end CG movies like Final Fantasy Advent children. Instead of Hollywood releasing standard movie versions of games, we could see interactive movie versions released via Blu-ray... Also, this could be a new arena for producers like Kojima to create his real MGS dream a full blown movie with interactive properties.

Through this convergence, an interactive movie may be based on dynamically-created computer graphics with virtual actors, cast into particular roles and behaviors, dynamically determined by the actor's character. The types of cinematic techniques available to the author include:

Nonlinear story trees: There are three common forms of story trees which provide distinct types of navigation:
maze, which converts the story into a physical model of interconnections;
character, which allows the viewer to follow a particular character throughout the story; and
alternate reality, which creates multiple, concurrent realities, and in which the viewer may switch among them.
Gradual disclosure: Presenting information to the viewer as it is needed; this prevents overloading the viewer with too much information at one time, and can also be used to add continuity, by incrementally filling in information that the viewer needs to know.
Parallel action: Cutting back and forth between two or more ongoing concurrent events which are linked.
Separation: Refers to the alternation of a scene into distinct views, eg. to show a conversation from the viewpoints of two actors, involved in a dialog.
Repetition: Building structure within the composition, this technique can be used in movies to improve the continuity by repeating a significant detail.
Camera movement: Used to control the viewpoint, focus, and level of detail in order to achieve various emotional and psychological effects.

Here's an example:
Consider a possible movie in which:

the author has used various cinematic techniques and software technologies to create a movie;
the viewer can interact at any level — plot, role, and character;
the presentation of the movie is controlled dynamically by a computer system which also monitors the viewer's behaviors as a source of interaction; and
the story is constructed from a scripting language which is interpreted at run-time by the computer. The movie script can therefore be modified, at any time, in response to the actions of the viewer. The scripting language is directly analogous to the movie script in that it controls the flow of events of the actors, camera movement, and scene.
Since a movie is a form of storytelling, the author can create a script which presents all the necessary information at the particular time and place, required to realize the story. The viewer, however, desires the freedom to navigate through the movie, in ways possibly not envisioned by the author. Since the computer is dynamically creating the movie, and monitoring the response of the viewer, complete knowledge exists concerning what the viewer has seen, what is required to understand later events, and the original sequencing of events as created by the author. The script can therefore be dynamically modified to include or exclude certain information, guide the focus of attention, or adjust the level of detail according to the viewer's previous experience.

As an example of this style of presentation, consider a detective story in which the author instructs the computer to use gradual disclosure to first show blood stains on the carpet, then at a later time, to show a knife on the table. Since the movie is synthesized from computer-graphic scenes and actors, the position of the virtual camera can be controlled, using standardized techniques for the camera movement. However, the viewer may also control the camera, and therefore not see the clues that the author placed in the room. In anticipation of the viewer, missing certain critical information in the development of the story, the author can embed a link to a flashback sequence within the story line. This link may or may not be followed, depending upon the previous experience of the viewer. If the viewer missed a critical detail, then this link will be followed, and the scene may be shown with a high or low level of detail, depending upon what the viewer has previously seen in this scene. Thus, in this style of presentation, the computer controls the cinematic features, and the viewer controls the subject or content. As such, the viewer has the illusion of freedom, and the author can still maintain control over the experience.

I know this was a long post, but I had some time to kill and was day dreaming during my work day...

I would like for everyone to post their thoughts and expand on this idea.

Honestly, I believe this could be a viable genre only available on the PS3...
...:hitit:

[LinpinWangyFoot]

i'm too drunk to read it... so i agree...

[Nameless]

i'm too drunk to read it... so i agree...
LMAO!!!:rockon:

[Handycrap101]

Interactive movies with real peple have been known to have worse graphics then 3D rendered models. I think this concept was done to death the second it was started. I prefer games like Snatcher and Policenauts to this kind of garbage anyway.

[Nameless]

Interactive movies with real peple have been known to have worse graphics then 3D rendered models. I think this concept was done to death the second it was started. I prefer games like Snatcher and Policenauts to this kind of garbage anyway.
I'm refering to using cutting edge CG like FF Advent Chidren in HD instead of using live action video. Imagine a MGS game with high end CG graphics using Kojima's directing style. Also, it would be a huge plus the footage would be interactive...:shocked:

Sounds good to me...

[Handycrap101]

I'm refering to using cutting edge CG like FF Advent Chidren in HD instead of using live action video. Imagine a MGS game with high end CG graphics using Kojima's directing style. Also, it would be a huge plus the footage would be interactive...:shocked:

Sounds good to me...

I don't see it as a necessity to exist. Why can't we keep the 2 separate. An MGS movie or just the MGS game. The combing of the 2 is just silly. IMO, a MGS movie isn't even needed. I dunno man, I just don't like the concept.

[Nameless]

I don't see it as a necessity to exist. Why can't we keep the 2 separate. An MGS movie or just the MGS game. The combing of the 2 is just silly. IMO, a MGS movie isn't even needed. I dunno man, I just don't like the concept.
It's cool man everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I believe this could be a genre unique to the PS3...
Honestly I think people automaticly dismiss this meduim based on past experiences... Peace

[Homeru]

I'm just afraid they might screw the mgs movie; they should keep as a game.
FF advent children is great, it would be cool if you could change the camera angles during the movie or customize the way you watch it.

[Nameless]

I'm just afraid they might screw the mgs movie; they should keep as a game.
FF advent children is great, it would be cool if you could change the camera angles during the movie or customize the way you watch it.
Just to be clear I'm not suggesting we replace games with interactive movies, I'm just saying this could be an additional outlet for projects...

[digital neXus]

You're high or something?
People will never realize that the movie is created for WATCHING, if I want to interact with it.......well.......it goes like this: "Welcome to your brand new PS3. What would you like to do?........Play MGS4? OK"
My point is movie must stay a movie.
What should I do when I go to see Spidey 6 or X-Men 9 in theatre?
Pick up a joypad from back of front seat????

Some games are not meant to become movies, that goes the same for comic books.

[Mach]

Very good post, Nameless. I have been a BIG advocate for the revival of interactive movies for a very long time. Ever since the horribly executed attempt to try them when CD's first came out, I've been disappointed with the game console community's neglect of the possibilities.

I've got many great ideas for interactive movies myself. And I hope that eventually interactive movies can serve as a very large alternative use of game consoles than traditional video games.

[Viano]

You definately will see this coming, the interactive "animations" anyone??loL.
Japanese Simulation(it's a genre, pure story telling) usually contains only pictures and words but I really see this coming because of the BD.

btw there was a interactive animation call "Momo Tenshi" from DC, and yes, had about 3 or 5 discs can't remember, it was cute.

[gljvd]

*GL JVd uses his green lantern ring to banish memorys of sewer shark , Night trap and that really bad game with the coreys in it .*

Seriously they were stupid with laser disc and cd , they will still be dumb with bluray no matter how nice the res is .

The interactivity just isn't there

[venomv]

I have no clue what you guys are talking about, lol.

[Loc]

Well DVDs had something like this, except more archaic. You could choose which angle you wanted to see a scene in.

[Viano]

*GL JVd uses his green lantern ring to banish memorys of sewer shark , Night trap and that really bad game with the coreys in it .*

Seriously they were stupid with laser disc and cd , they will still be dumb with bluray no matter how nice the res is .

The interactivity just isn't there

the who??

Yeah whatever the I-work-at-EB-n-called-The-Future-Predictor guy.

anyways this is just very exciting cause the only pure storytelling genre is japanese simulation, no battles, no lv, no weapons nor amrs, but only words and picture just like reading a book with mutiple endings(some crazy one have like 100+).
This will explode and get adopted from the people worldwide if they do it right imo, very interesting.
But the only thing I am worried about is the high production cost loL.

[gljvd]

I have no clue what you guys are talking about, lol.

The games Nameless are talking about are in the same vain as Dragon's lair .

On the sega cd it was revived (along with 3do) There were games like sewer shark , nite trap and other crappy games.

Nite trap was esp crazy . It had Dana plato . Who in the 80s was the sister on Diffrent strokes. She later killed her self . Also there was a special versoin that required the genesis , sega cd and 32x . They used the power of the 3 systems to display much higher quality video


Basicly in Nite trap. You would watch a movie and at certian times had to press a button to make an event happen or to stop something for happing. Nite trap was a horror game. A punch of Girls were in a house with a kill outside. You had to set traps and go to each room and get lucky and save the girls.


These games are really not fun because the interactivty isn't there. In alot of ways it will be a huge step backwards .

[Viano]

The games Nameless are talking about are in the same vain as Dragon's lair .

On the sega cd it was revived (along with 3do) There were games like sewer shark , nite trap and other crappy games.

Nite trap was esp crazy . It had Dana plato . Who in the 80s was the sister on Diffrent strokes. She later killed her self . Also there was a special versoin that required the genesis , sega cd and 32x . They used the power of the 3 systems to display much higher quality video


Basicly in Nite trap. You would watch a movie and at certian times had to press a button to make an event happen or to stop something for happing. Nite trap was a horror game. A punch of Girls were in a house with a kill outside. You had to set traps and go to each room and get lucky and save the girls.


These games are really not fun because the interactivty isn't there. In alot of ways it will be a huge step backwards .


being lazy is one of the reason people like watching movies instead of games.

interactive movies/animations really have a lot potential, but I guess it will not be popular till the production price get down, which is not a near future talk if speaking about the high quality movies or animations.

[gljvd]

The only good movie with more than one ending (that was actually released in thearters with more than one ending) was Clue.

When I was in highschool (way back in the late 90s) we saw a testing of a movie where you choose what happened. It tested so badly its not even funny. They planed on having 4 test groups and each test group would go through 10 stages as they improved the movie and the tech behind it.

They got to the 4th test and decided to quit. No one like the branchign story ideas.

Also for a short while when I was in 8th grade , they had novels with diffrent story lines. You would get to a page and it would say

If Viano decided to go up stairs to the spooky attic go to page 84. If he decided to go down to the dark cellar go to page 102.

These were popular for a little while but peopl esooned moved on because they were not a great form of story telling .

[Viano]

The only good movie with more than one ending (that was actually released in thearters with more than one ending) was Clue.

When I was in highschool (way back in the late 90s) we saw a testing of a movie where you choose what happened. It tested so badly its not even funny. They planed on having 4 test groups and each test group would go through 10 stages as they improved the movie and the tech behind it.

They got to the 4th test and decided to quit. No one like the branchign story ideas.

Also for a short while when I was in 8th grade , they had novels with diffrent story lines. You would get to a page and it would say

If Viano decided to go up stairs to the spooky attic go to page 84. If he decided to go down to the dark cellar go to page 102.

These were popular for a little while but peopl esooned moved on because they were not a great form of story telling .


no offense but I have no intention debating on this thing because you obviously don't konw or have not experienced any JSimulation I was refering to, well, since none of them are in English, it's not anyone's fault.

However, as what I have experienced from those simulations I played, interactive animations/movies does have alot potiential, period. If you have any chance going to japan you'll actually find out just the genre of simulation is actually sometimes 2-3 times larger than the x1+x2 section...

[Nameless]

I stand behind my post and believe the power of the PS3 could take this genre to the next level and bring it to the mainstream...

When online gaming first started with Sega people actually believed it was not important to mainstream gamers and it has now become one of the main features being discussed for next-gen gaming... Peace

[gljvd]

Ready for it ... watch what i'm going to do .


Interactive movies have no future , they were already deemed a dead end . The only new tech is higher res. They are not worth the effort period

See what I did there. I did what u did... I said period ... so now My point must be fact .... cause I said period

:fighting: :twitch:

[Nameless]

Ready for it ... watch what i'm going to do .


Interactive movies have no future , they were already deemed a dead end . The only new tech is higher res. They are not worth the effort period

See what I did there. I did what u did... I said period ... so now My point must be fact .... cause I said period

:fighting: :twitch:
LOL... You can't be serious...:loser:

[gljvd]

I stand behind my post and believe the power of the PS3 could take this genre to the next level and bring it to the mainstream...

When online gaming first started with Sega people actually believed it was not important to mainstream gamers and it has now become one of the main features being discussed for next-gen gaming... Peace


The only people who believed it wasn't important to mainstream gamers were idiots. Mainstream gamers were playing online since quake. On the pc side it exploaded.

The key benfit is that online is getting faster , thus more players can go on a map or in a game.


With interactive movies , the main problem is the interactivty and that is not something solved by brute force.

The main problem stems from the interactivity of the player and the game. Using pre rendered assets will make them just that , pre rendered. Games have been moving away from that for some time. They are trying to make everything more interactive . Gamers in general wnat to interact with everything in the scene . If there is a wall adn we hae a strong enough weapon , we want to be able to destroy it.

The main problem is it will allways be a limited set of options that you can do and the production costs will be insane. Its a marriage of two diffrent formats and it will be worse for wear. You will loose the scripting and pacing of the movie and loose the freedom of the gaming .

In the end the best you can hopefull is an expensive adventure game like monkey island

[Handycrap101]

I'll step in a skew my views just a tad. Now while my opinion isn't as harsh and straight forward as the open minded gljvd, I still fully support the evolution of the genre and hope it does find a way to become more accesible and practicle. Currently though, it's rather bland and the 'gameplay' aspects are relatively closed...almost non-existant. Now I COULD see a spark in genre if the right game testers where brought whos opinions towards the game could make it more appealing. A dev would need legit feedback for somthing like this so they know what to start from....because currently there is nothing in existence that they could try and model a game from.

I don't know.... I just think with what it takes to make a game of this kind is too limited and overall not fun. But if someone can pull it off then I'll be sure to check that out.

[Nameless]

gljvd, Its people with a lack of vision that hinder the gaming industry.
I'm not stating this genre would replace traditional games, but it could be a new genre that would bring gamers that do not want to deal with intricate console control schemes... Also, if done correctly could appeal to people who love eye candy like FF Advent children CGI flicks (MILR comes to mind...)

Once again I believe this genre if done correctly with new innovations like some of the examples listed in my post (not sure if you even read the entire post...) this genre could increase gaming market share and bring a different demographic to gaming...

In some ways I envy Nintendo for taking some risk to broaden the videogame industry market share...

[gljvd]

The genere your talking about exists , its called Adventure games which can be easily made.

The thing with cgi flicks like FF advent children is that the Writers have a single vision in which they all work and craft the story for . It has heavy tweaking done over a long time .

For what you want , you would need to make a story that supports a large number of possible out comes at every turn. To much and the game will ever get finished, to little and its limited and has very little replay value .

The other problem is getting story lines that would make sense with x amount of branches in x amount of areas .

The risks your talking about were taken a long time ago. The format proved to be the wrong way to go .

I'd rather get a real adventure game using a game engine than any interactive movie deal.

With a game engine they could simply (and its been done for years) Make beautifull backrounds out of large textures and simply devote the power of the systems to the characters and interactive portions of the games.

This was done to death in games likes grim fandango and other lucas arts games. (many were cartoon backrounds) the problem is , this was a niche market and the market as moved on

[Viano]

why not quote my sentences cause you said to put me in your ignore list?jk, lol.

I am just asking this to those who haven't really tried the simulation games I've tried before since I know jvd usually doesn't answer people's question directly.

What's the main difference between watching Matrix and playing DMC?

in movies, you can simply get the ideal concepts of various scenes, action, stories, senses which can not be achieved by oneself, and I am not saying watching matrix gives more excitement than controlling Dante.
It's art, in a sense because for movies/animation, we mostly perceive, yet games will require both perception also to control things.

in another word one is to enjoy through our eyes and ears and one is nearly oppisite.

just because the reason above will give so much wider audience if the concept is adopted. And why have over 100+?.. well, it's fun as a gameand, you are actually enjoying a movie.

Kamaitachi no yoru, the series had sold over million, most people who played give all 5 stars(actually four cause there's no level of difficulty)

http://www.psphyper.com/games_psp/kamaitachinoyoru2.php

this is the only english site I found has the info but it's originally for PS and PS2, this is like something so popular in japan and people have no idea what that is when they are always refering jp devs supports=JRPGs, but wrong.

[Viano]

The genere your talking about exists , its called Adventure games which can be easily made.

The thing with cgi flicks like FF advent children is that the Writers have a single vision in which they all work and craft the story for . It has heavy tweaking done over a long time .

For what you want , you would need to make a story that supports a large number of possible out comes at every turn. To much and the game will ever get finished, to little and its limited and has very little replay value .

The other problem is getting story lines that would make sense with x amount of branches in x amount of areas .

The risks your talking about were taken a long time ago. The format proved to be the wrong way to go .

I'd rather get a real adventure game using a game engine than any interactive movie deal.

With a game engine they could simply (and its been done for years) Make beautifull backrounds out of large textures and simply devote the power of the systems to the characters and interactive portions of the games.

This was done to death in games likes grim fandango and other lucas arts games. (many were cartoon backrounds) the problem is , this was a niche market and the market as moved on

ok so it's called adventure games.

and it might be dead in the state but simply growing in japan, and personally no offense though, it's not a western type of game imo, so note that I am not convicing you to like it or something but for ex the game(or digital books) I stated above is absolutely amazing, and I really want to share you how great that it but sadly..cant. it's actually more scary than Siren if you are a casual gamer loL.

[Viano]

http://chun.sega.jp/kama2.html

they got a nice lil clip, and I am waiting for the 3 coming out on july... it's simply too good..

[gljvd]

The diffrence between the adventure game and what he is talking about , is that an adventure game is all a game engine . he wants to marry movie footage with game engine. That is going to limit what can be done and send the cost up through the roof .

Also the lead time for anything approaching ff advent rising quality will take 3 or 4 years to make . Not to mention that is only what 2 hours of video. That would make for a short and boring movie. 10 hours would be about right for a game (20 is ideal) and that would up the years it takes to make by a very large margin .

[Viano]

The diffrence between the adventure game and what he is talking about , is that an adventure game is all a game engine . he wants to marry movie footage with game engine. That is going to limit what can be done and send the cost up through the roof .

Also the lead time for anything approaching ff advent rising quality will take 3 or 4 years to make . Not to mention that is only what 2 hours of video. That would make for a short and boring movie. 10 hours would be about right for a game (20 is ideal) and that would up the years it takes to make by a very large margin .

who??

and no one said the ffa quality on those.. animations are good enough.

gijvd I know you are a western gamer and I respect that, but you simply don't get what's going on on another side of the earth, so try speak with knowlodge please.

need to do concert now.. please don't bother replying if you don't even know what you are talking about because it's not a vs-x2 issue you are defending, it's the possiblity of new gaming in future for PlayStation.

good topic nameless♪

[gljvd]

Yea alright , now i remember why i put you on ignore.

Let's take this a step further and consider a convergence of current videogames like the MGS series and high end CG movies like Final Fantasy Advent children.


Thats from the first post in this thread.

Perhaps you should worry about whats happening in the thread your posting in , than trying to act like your some great cultured poster on these forums .

[Viano]

Yea alright , now i remember why i put you on ignore.



Thats from the first post in this thread.

Perhaps you should worry about whats happening in the thread your posting in , than trying to act like your some great cultured poster on these forums .

It's nice to have movie/CG quality interactive games, but as I said, the production cost will be way to high. However, interactive games the the Next-Gen sound/imaged novels or adventure games.

So what the fuc are you debating? you simply don't even know the games I was refering to not have ever experienced them.

Culture? you don't wanna start this with me cause you obviously never step out of your home town. Get another job!! game store you are working at is washing your brain!!! LOL.

[gljvd]

So now your wrong and your back tracking

and no one said the ffa quality on those.. animations are good enough.


As for where i've been. I've been to 32 of the 50 states in the USA , i've been to mexico . I've been to Italy many times , i've been to england (London is friggen gloomy ) , I've also been to singapore and of course those crazy people to the north of the USA .

I think i've gotten out of my own back yard once or twice. As a matter of fact , soon i will be visting my 33 state and I will possibly be going to aulstraila (sp?) if i can get the vacation time for my birthday.

[Viano]

So now your wrong and your back tracking



As for where i've been. I've been to 32 of the 50 states in the USA , i've been to mexico . I've been to Italy many times , i've been to england (London is friggen gloomy ) , I've also been to singapore and of course those crazy people to the north of the USA .

I think i've gotten out of my own back yard once or twice. As a matter of fact , soon i will be visting my 33 state and I will possibly be going to aulstraila (sp?) if i can get the vacation time for my birthday.

yeah nice places but hey, I'm not showing off even though I am qualingual and have lived more than 4 countries in my life, but hey, who cares.

I wasn't back tracking, I clearly stated the production cost will be huge at begining.

those stated are my opinions according to what I have experienced from japanese market, why bother debating on thme using your opinions.

I am not trying to change your mind but you are trying to change everyone's who doesn't have the same opinions to you.

pointless, helpless.

[gljvd]

If the production costs are huge , how then does it equal a viable format ?

You would either have to sell with the best of the games relesaed (or possibly higher) .

Game costs are already hitting 20m for a low end game , god only knows what the big bugets are like. Adding 10 hours of high quality cgi footage even if its only 720p footage is going to balloon that cost up greatly.