PS3 Backward Compatibility Good news & Better news...

[Nameless]

I would like to include a few caveats:
Not sure if the source is reliable...
Dealing with Google translator = some mangled English...

PS3 will include PS2 EE+GS (Emotion Engine & Graphics Synth) in first batch of PS3s
Ultra ONE magazine of May 24th sale (and publication suspension last number. . .)Being similar, you wrote the article, but among those, in PS3, it touched in regard to “the interchangeability”. In regard to this point, because the article which refers securely it seems that almost is not, the filter which is already done you will in detail explain.

EE+GS of PS2, is loaded onto PS3, almost that way. This is something in order to move the title of PS2 normally. In PS2, the core tip/chip of PS1 they are the contents which make that it is installed as the I/O processor, but that of PS3 just a little is different. It means kind of that anyhow, function “of PS2 interchangeable” other than has not happened to have.
Originally, with SCE, it seems that is the schedule which is made to actualize with the PS2 interchangeable software. But development of emulator has a rough going, the compatibility which is close to 100% is actualized, time is not enough, that it was judged.
It is the structure that coming out, loads EE+GS that way, then. As for being harsh costwise, very becoming cause of the price hike of PS3 you are not wrong, but “the interchangeability which is close to 100% because it is necessary”, like this does is the case that it is not obtained as SCE. As soon as in the future, aim to be attached to the development of software emulator, the design of PS3 is modified, removes EE+GS and says that it is the schedule which to cost is converted low.


Source Japanese
http://mnishi.cocolog-nifty.com/mnishi/2006/06/e3winhec_9a1b.html
(Viano, if you would like to take a stab at a full coherent translation it would be very appreciated, +Rep!)

Translation:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmnishi.cocolog-nifty.com%2Fmnishi%2F2006%2F06%2Fe3winhec_9a1b.htm l&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

I would consider this good news, because the inclusion of hardware would mean guaranteed backward compatibility. The only questions is would we still see enhanced PS2 footage (i.e. better AA & 720P res?)

Also, the inclusion of PS2 hardware in the PS3 is a costly approach to ensure backward compatibility. Once the software emulation is up to speed this could easily have an impact on a price cut for the console in the near future!

Considering Microsoft is starting to slow down their emulation backward compatibility efforts less than a year after the 360 release...
I would like to hear how important is backward compatibility to you?
I think it's vital to the success of the PS platform, I'm looking forward to playing enhanced versions of God Of War 2 & FFXII later this year...:stirpot:

[cliffbo]

that is very interesting. this could be one reason that its a little more than expected (it is still cheap though) like you said if they can eventually do it all in software then the price could fall rapidly within a year. couple that with reduced chip size and.... there is a rumour in the new PSM that Sony may not release the smaller system at all, perhaps its dependant on whether they can create the software fix before release. top end PS3 for $100 less?

by the way PSM also says that the pressure sensitivity has also been taken out of the new controller...

[makeitlookreal]

Perhaps the PS3 could utilize the chip while not being in PS2 mode. If nothing else perhaps it could help decode compressed data from the Blu-Ray drive? Or perhaps there could be another use for the chip. For example, instead of having an SPE for sound could that chip be powerful to handle sound for the PS3?

[PhYmon]

To me is very important.. cuz I have games from the PS1 and PS2 so I would love to play them on one console, I also would like to see some improves on the quality image..

[Nameless]

Perhaps the PS3 could utilize the chip while not being in PS2 mode. If nothing else perhaps it could help decode compressed data from the Blu-Ray drive? Or perhaps there could be another use for the chip. For example, instead of having an SPE for sound could that chip be powerful to handle sound for the PS3?
MILR, I had the same thought, but I doubt this will occur.
I believe it would be very difficult to leverage the EE to assist with PS3 performance. Also, Sony would like to eventually remove the EE & GS to reduce the manufacturing cost once software emulation is more reliable.

If developers used the resources of the EE & GS in PS3 titles it would mean the games would not be compatible with the updated PS3s working off software emulation...

[cliffbo]

June 5, 2006 - A surprising report has emerged from Japan's Ultra One monthly technology magazine. The magazine's July issue reports that Sony will be achieving backwards compatibility on the PlayStation 3 not through software emulation, as previously announced, but through physical hardware.

The magazine states that the PS3 hardware, in its current form, includes the core PlayStation 2 chipset. This presumably means that initial PS3 units will include the single Emotion Engine (the PS2 CPU) and Graphic Synthesizer (the PS2 graphics chip) combo chip that powers the slim model PS2.

Of course, including the extra hardware drives up costs. The magazine adds that Sony plans on removing the PS2 chipset from future revisions of the PS3 hardware once it has finished development of a proper software-based PS2 emulator. Such a removal would help bring down costs for the system.

Sony has repeatedly stated that PS2 software would run on the PS3 through software emulation, leaving many to believe that the company had developed a powerful emulator for the older hardware. This would have been a particularly impressive feat, considering that even the PlayStation 2 originally used a combination of hardware and software to maintain backwards compatibility with original generation PlayStation games.

If the Ultra One report is true, the use of hardware emulation casts some doubts on what kind of visual updates we can expect for PlayStation 2 games. PlayStation games saw a few marginal upgrades when running on the PlayStation 2 due to the PlayStation graphics chip being emulated entirely through software running on the PS2's Graphics Synthesizer.

On the other hand, hardware emulation pretty much guarantees that every game that runs on the current PS2 will do so on the PS3.

A few other revelations appear in the Ultra One report, an investigative story into the reasons for the PS3's high price point. Izumi Kawanishi, head of Sony's Software Platform Development Division, commented to the magazine that one difference between the PS2 and the PS3 is that the PS3, as it was announced, is "nothing more than just the basic system." Sony is considering releasing models with larger volume hard disks and upgraded network features in the future. However, Kawanishi noted, Sony won't be changing CPU clock speed or memory amounts, as all PS3s have to run the same games.

The PS3 comes equipped with, in addition to a default hard disk, a "large amount of flash memory," the magazine reveals. This is used to house the operating system and all future system updates. Based on the wording in the magazine, it seems that the hard disk is to be used exclusively for multimedia content and will not contain any system features; users will, after all, be able to swap the built in hard drive out with any standard drive they pick up at a computer hardware store.

The magazine also provides an assurance about the PS3's compatibility with its own games. The PS2 lost compatibility with older titles as new models were released featuring updated chip designs. This won't be a problem with the PS3, as the magazine reveals that in the event that problems are discovered following an updated chip design, the system will be able to connect Online to download any required patches, which will then be stored on the hard disk.

Finally, the magazine gives a solid price estimate for the high-end PS3 model in Japan. Sony officially lists the price as "open," meaning retailers will have to determine their own pricing, but Ultra One says that the price is "expected" to be 73,000 yen.

Who exactly is expecting this price is anyone's guess, as the magazine doesn't give specifics. We'll wait for official word from Sony on that price point, and on the other details in the Ultra One article, before considering this report confirmed.

http://www.gametab.com/news/589491/

[Red_Eyes]

Here's IGN's report.

Sony Bundles PS2 With PS3
Report from Japan suggests that a mini PS2 will be included in every PS3.
by Anoop Gantayat

June 5, 2006 - A surprising report has emerged from Japan's Ultra One monthly technology magazine. The magazine's July issue reports that Sony will be achieving backwards compatibility on the PlayStation 3 not through software emulation, as previously announced, but through physical hardware.

The magazine states that the PS3 hardware, in its current form, includes the core PlayStation 2 chipset. This presumably means that initial PS3 units will include the single Emotion Engine (the PS2 CPU) and Graphic Synthesizer (the PS2 graphics chip) combo chip that powers the slim model PS2.

Of course, including the extra hardware drives up costs. The magazine adds that Sony plans on removing the PS2 chipset from future revisions of the PS3 hardware once it has finished development of a proper software-based PS2 emulator. Such a removal would help bring down costs for the system.

Sony has repeatedly stated that PS2 software would run on the PS3 through software emulation, leaving many to believe that the company had developed a powerful emulator for the older hardware. This would have been a particularly impressive feat, considering that even the PlayStation 2 originally used a combination of hardware and software to maintain backwards compatibility with original generation PlayStation games.

If the Ultra One report is true, the use of hardware emulation casts some doubts on what kind of visual updates we can expect for PlayStation 2 games. PlayStation games saw a few marginal upgrades when running on the PlayStation 2 due to the PlayStation graphics chip being emulated entirely through software running on the PS2's Graphics Synthesizer.

On the other hand, hardware emulation pretty much guarantees that every game that runs on the current PS2 will do so on the PS3.

A few other revelations appear in the Ultra One report, an investigative story into the reasons for the PS3's high price point. Izumi Kawanishi, head of Sony's Software Platform Development Division, commented to the magazine that one difference between the PS2 and the PS3 is that the PS3, as it was announced, is "nothing more than just the basic system." Sony is considering releasing models with larger volume hard disks and upgraded network features in the future. However, Kawanishi noted, Sony won't be changing CPU clock speed or memory amounts, as all PS3s have to run the same games.

The PS3 comes equipped with, in addition to a default hard disk, a "large amount of flash memory," the magazine reveals. This is used to house the operating system and all future system updates. Based on the wording in the magazine, it seems that the hard disk is to be used exclusively for multimedia content and will not contain any system features; users will, after all, be able to swap the built in hard drive out with any standard drive they pick up at a computer hardware store.

The magazine also provides an assurance about the PS3's compatibility with its own games. The PS2 lost compatibility with older titles as new models were released featuring updated chip designs. This won't be a problem with the PS3, as the magazine reveals that in the event that problems are discovered following an updated chip design, the system will be able to connect Online to download any required patches, which will then be stored on the hard disk.

Finally, the magazine gives a solid price estimate for the high-end PS3 model in Japan. Sony officially lists the price as "open," meaning retailers will have to determine their own pricing, but Ultra One says that the price is "expected" to be 73,000 yen.

Who exactly is expecting this price is anyone's guess, as the magazine doesn't give specifics. We'll wait for official word from Sony on that price point, and on the other details in the Ultra One article, before considering this report confirmed.

Source: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/711/711242p1.html

The interesting thing is this:

The PS3 comes equipped with, in addition to a default hard disk, a "large amount of flash memory," the magazine reveals. This is used to house the operating system and all future system updates. Based on the wording in the magazine, it seems that the hard disk is to be used exclusively for multimedia content and will not contain any system features; users will, after all, be able to swap the built in hard drive out with any standard drive they pick up at a computer hardware store.

[VG Aficionado]

This contradicts what's been said to date (official sources?), but I think it also ensures >95% BC. I wonder whether EE&GS will have higher clock frequencies or whatever.

[cliffbo]

red-eyes take a look above your post lol

[xbdestroya]

This contradicts what's been said to date (official sources?), but I think it also ensures 95%+ BC. I wonder whether EE&GS will have higher clock frequencies or whatever.

Well, Kutaragi has said that they were working on a solution in both 'hardware and software,' and that it would be 'expensive.'

Only until they get the emulation up to speed though it seems.

Honestly the Flash information is the most interesting aspect of this; I was wonderign what they would do in order to allow for third-party hard drives, and here is the answer!

[Leedogg]

I wouldn't be surprised if the large amount is 512 mb or even 1 GB of flash memory.

It may be similar to the PSP, it has 32 MB of RAM, and has the equal amount of Flash memory.

[makeitlookreal]

Flash memory would be a very significant feature for the PS3. First of all, it would solve the problem of the OS using up the system's normal RAM. Additionally, could this RAM be used to help with caching data fromthe Blu-ray? Could it be used to supplement the RAM for the RSX or Cell?

[Viano]

to reply the original article the rest of the article was just saying the role of HDD.
There will be slim ver. or other verion for ps3 future, and different verion might not have 100% backaward ability like slim ps2 right now with some titles. However, this, in a away can be updated from the new patches. The problem is, the complexity will increase for users, and this is what they are still solving right now.

[Applefiend]

I've been thinking PS3 would have the exact same system as PSP, upgradable flash memory... This is great news. You'll download an update to your PS3 just like you do now and suddenly it'll do a bunch more stuff... just like PSP.

And thank god for the BC. I've been waiting from news from Sony that PS3 supports "Top selling titles only".

So I'm guessing PS2+PS1 games look exactly like they do on PS2 now, only perhaps with some basic upscalling to 1080i, 720p. The door is left open for flash updates than emulate PS1 and PS2 in software with enhancements, AF, HD native, FSAA, yadda yadda.

Super, my whole library of PS2 games will work. I'm a game collector so this is today's good PS3 news.

If anyone's interested there are PS2 emulators for PC now that run suprisingly well.

[Z]

this is the first confirmation for me that EE+GS will be present in PS3.
but what do they mean by the initial batch? will they shrink the die to a smaller size and maybe include it with Cell's 65n version or what?

[Applefiend]

They're migrating emulation to software. You can take the PS1 CPU, turn that into software, remove that silicon, then emulate the PS3 CPU in software on Cell, remove that silicon, in 5 years your PS3 will be entirely PS2/PS1 component free. Or maybe just one very hard to emulate chip like the PS2 GS still lingering in hardware.

Sony constantly cost reduce their consoles. Making the console is just step one for them.

I can see early PS3 units being the best in 5 years time with a switch on the dashboard. Emulation: Hardware or Software

[makeitlookreal]

I just hope the extra FLASH memory could be utilized by the Cell and RSX. This is something we really, really need more information about! This is major news!

So the 32MB of RAM in the PSP is actuall FLASH memory?

[xbdestroya]

Don't get too excited - Flash memory sucks and is slow. Sure, it can be faster than a hard drive, and it uses a hell of a lot less power, but the PS3 is still going to be loading into system memory for actual work performed.

Really what this means is that your PS3 will remain 'yours,' OS and all, even when you swap out the hard drive and replace it with another.

It's good news, but not from the performance standpoint.

[makeitlookreal]

XBdestroya,

So are you saying that the OS for the PS3 is still going to be using system memory even though the Flash memory exists in the system? If so, that is very, very frustrating.

Edit: It is good news IF it means that system RAM will be saved. The rumor has been circulating that the OS is going to take up 96MB of RAM. If this can be eliminated even if the Flash memory does nothing else it would help preserve RAM for games.

[xbdestroya]

XBdestroya,

So are you saying that the OS for the PS3 is still going to be using system memory even though the Flash memory exists in the system? If so, that is very, very frustrating.

Yeah, it still will.

[makeitlookreal]

Then I don't see the benefit of having Flash Memory other than having a place to put the OS other than the HDD.

Darn it, everytime we hear about something that sounds good it seems really it does not help the system at all!

[cliffbo]

i'm really starting to think that its best to be in the dark about all of this stuff because its getting on my nerves. all the xbox fanboys have done a good job of ruining this forum lately and any joy from new information is deflated immediately by so called ballanced thinking. surfing is getting tedious and unrewarding, perhaps i'm better off without this PC?

[makeitlookreal]

Cliffbo,

I am seriously considering giving up on the PS3 and just forgetting it even exists. I am sick and tired of Sony causing all this turmoil just because they will not be honest with us their consumers. All we do is debate rumors and tidbits of information until we are exhausted and as a result figure out little or nothing new. I am guilty of this myself, and find that I become more frustrated with every little drop of possible information we get.

What we really need is the big picture presented to us clearly by Sony. They need to lay all the specifications on the table clearly explained for everyone. It would be done with once and for all and we could move on.

[cliffbo]

Cliffbo,

I am seriously considering giving up on the PS3 and just forgetting it even exists. I am sick and tired of Sony causing all this turmoil just because they will not be honest with us their consumers. All we do is debate rumors and tidbits of information until we are exhausted and as a result figure out little or nothing new. I am guilty of this myself, and find that I become more frustrated with every little drop of possible information we get.

What we really need is the big picture presented to us clearly by Sony. They need to lay all the specifications on the table clearly explained for everyone. It would be done with once and for all and we could move on.

its not Sony mate, they're a business after all, its the trolls, flaming and fanboys that are pissing me off

[xbdestroya]

It's over-eager Sony fans that are the problem here. This forum isn't about a Sony feel-good session, it'a about understanding what's going on with the Playstation 3; both the good and the bad.

Makeitlookreal, I mean if you think that Sony has a responsibility to tell it's customers everything about the console... then well, give up on it, because they're not going to.

You have to ask yourself why you're getting the console in the first place; if those reasons no longer stand, then maybe it's best to save the money. If they do still stand, then what does Sony's information-release policy have to do with anything?

[cliffbo]

It's over-eager Sony fans that are the problem here. This forum isn't about a Sony feel-good session, it'a about understanding what's going on with the Playstation 3; both the good and the bad.

Makeitlookreal, I mean if you think that Sony has a responsibility to tell it's customers everything about the console... then well, give up on it, because they're not going to.

You have to ask yourself why you're getting the console in the first place; if those reasons no longer stand, then maybe it's best to save the money. If they do still stand, then what does Sony's information-release policy have to do with anything?

guys like jvd need banning xb. many people complained about MILR with one agenda, but at least he's a PS owner. jvd posts large assaults on every thread and causes anoyance to everyone without exception. if your going to lock threads that are anti MS on a PS3 forum then it goes without question that MS fans should be locked out entirely because they spread their poison throughout this forum and spoil it for the rest of us. i don't mind people disagreeing with me or having different views but when its carte blanche it becomes obvious that these people are just going out of their way to derail this entire forum. perhaps a thread on this matter could be posted by yourself asking for suggestions on what appropriate actions should be taken. this is our forum XB after all. :)

[makeitlookreal]

Basically, I know gaming can take up a lot of time and money. I really want to decide NOW if I want to "really" get into gaming again. So far I am very impressed with MGS4, but really want to know the true technical specifications of the PS3. You see, if the console is not powerful enough in my opinion to produce the kind of games I want this generation then I will simply move on and wait for the PS4.

I would love to become an avid gamer again, but I am at the point now where anything but the best graphics really, really turns me off. Now, I realize that the PS3 will only produce BETTER graphics as time goes on, but at the same time I want to know EXACTLY what is under the hood of the PS3! If I am going to continue posting about gaming stuff, eventually buy the PS3, post more about games, purchase additional games, and so fourth then I really want to know NOW if I should stay INTERESTED in the PS3 or leave it alone until the PS4.

I really am not at all interested in the Wii and am only marginally interested in the 360 and then only because of Fight Night Round 3. If I am to purchase a console this gen I want it to be the PS3, but only if I think it is truly worth the investment of money, time, and energy.

[Nameless]

Basically, I know gaming can take up a lot of time and money. I really want to decide NOW if I want to "really" get into gaming again. So far I am very impressed with MGS4, but really want to know the true technical specifications of the PS3. You see, if the console is not powerful enough in my opinion to produce the kind of games I want this generation then I will simply move on and wait for the PS4.

I would love to become an avid gamer again, but I am at the point now where anything but the best graphics really, really turns me off. Now, I realize that the PS3 will only produce BETTER graphics as time goes on, but at the same time I want to know EXACTLY what is under the hood of the PS3! If I am going to continue posting about gaming stuff, eventually buy the PS3, post more about games, purchase additional games, and so fourth then I really want to know NOW if I should stay INTERESTED in the PS3 or leave it alone until the PS4.

I really am not at all interested in the Wii and am only marginally interested in the 360 and then only because of Fight Night Round 3. If I am to purchase a console this gen I want it to be the PS3, but only if I think it is truly worth the investment of money, time, and energy.
MILR, you need to chill man, really...
The PS3 is still over five months away and considering the demand most of us will not get our hands on a PS3 until 2007. Sony will release the final specs when they are ready, how about leaving the forums for a few months and come back, I'm sure new solid info will be available at that point...

If you continue to expect new PS3 news everyday and review this forum with those expectations you will be disappointed for several months my friend...:crazy2:

PS: Check this out it should get you excited for the PS3!
http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=4289

[Sephiroth_VII]

Okay, first to clear up the issue of flash memory. To be honest, I've been expecting this for awhile, since thgis is exactly the same as what they did for PSP. The firmware(Cross Media Bar, internet browser, codecs etc...)will be loaded from the read-only flash memory to the RAM, every time the system boots. The only thing that surprised me, is that it seems that Linux will also be stored in flash, as I had expected it to be stored on the HDD, and of course be upgradeable via a built-in updater. If you swapped out the HDD for a bigger version, I expected that you could simply install Linux via the internet. But alas, I was wrong, and I'm happy that I was.

Now, on fanbots, I agree with Cliffbo. JVD and GleefullFarewell should be banned, as they since thier first posts has done nothing but spread rumours and lies. I feel that Wounding and MILR should be allowed to stay, since at least they do listen to our opinions, post things relevant to the topic, and learn from their mistakes. Admins, please ban these trolls.

[xbdestroya]

JVD has altered his posting style to be much less confrontational on the 360 vs PS3 issue - while still expressing opinions - and as such he's welcome to stay as long as that continues to be the case.

The rest I'll answer in your 'Forum Back' thread Cliffbo.

As for Wounding he and I have been in contact over PM, and he has left for the time being due to the atmosphere here.

[Z]

I really want to know NOW if I should stay INTERESTED in the PS3
you can't know that at the moment, not untill PS3 launches. and even then, some will leave it for a year or two till they see the real games appearing on it. MGS4 won't come out till 2007 at the earliest (delays may still happen even if an official date was given). so, after PS3 launches, you can keep checking up on it from time to time and see if you fancy what it can do then and what kind of games are on it.
as for tech specs, they are interesting an dall, but in reallity, you can't really predict what exactly a system can do or what the limits are based solely on the hardware. I look at my tiny PSTwo when playing GoW, SotC, Tourist Trophy, Ace Combat, etc. and I can't beleive this little thing can produce these kinds of games. so numbers are only good for us to pass the time till the full product is out. general specs do count as they tell you what kind of media you can play, storage platforms, online apps, etc. but looking deeper at numbers doesn't meen alot for most gamers. even techies just like to discuss the numbers for geek sake.

just take it easy and enjoy the ride. we aren't talking about what kind of gaming PC super grid you should invest in. they are only consoles. :)

[makeitlookreal]

Seph,

So are you saying the OS will require main system memory or not?

[Applefiend]

I think to be honest we kind of know everything there is to know about the PS3. Cell has been done to death, RSX well... I'd like to think Nerve Damage is correct and it's some monster, but I imagine it's what we've been told, a doubled up 6800U on a 128 bit memory bus, which actually means for some operations it's actually slower than a single 6800U on a 256 bit bus, for others, faster.

To be honest, I'm impressed by a single 6800U, my PC GPU is way less powerful than that. Applying 2 of them to say Metal Gear blows my mind.

I think there's a point the speculation goes and we talk about the great things the machine we have rather than the machine we'd want can do for gaming. There's great technologies behind PS3, Blu Ray, Bluetooth, Cell, RSX, HDMI, OpenGL, Linux, that are unique to PS3.

I'd like to see more on the cool way nVidia GPUs do shadows, or more on upcoming games, or deeper into programming examples.

I'm not that interested in how people aren't interested in gaming anymore. If you're not, leave, there are other hobbies and interests. Or how poor people are. I don't know, get a paper round or work some overtime if you can't scrape together $499.

The idea that some people have that they won't let a controller touch their hands unless every single game is photo realistic seems silly to me. Go play some Tetris or Lemmings, these are what gaming is all about. Fresh ideas.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Right on, applefiend.

I'd been guessing they might be putting an EE/GS in the ps3 for a while now, considering how much trouble MS has had with software emulation right out of the gate. The ps2 had a psone inside it (essentially), didn't seem out of the question for this to happen. And the PS2 hardware probably isn't that expensive to manufacture at this point(?)... The flash drive makes sense to me, you won't be losing your ps3 personalizations when you swap out hard drives. I think I'm gonna pick up one this summer....hmm.... MILR, I think we all agree you stress to hard on this shit and need to chill. It's gonna be a few years before developers start taking advantage of more than 2, even 3 SPEs in the cell, let alone 5 or 6, so taking one out for the ps3's OS isn't as detrimental as you seem to think, if at all.

[makeitlookreal]

Applefiend,

If the PS3's RSX does turn out to be a tri-core monster the system would be VERY valuable to purchase. I really, really hope that turns out to be the case. The PS3 has a great CPU and it really needs a great GPU to match.

[Nameless]

I think to be honest we kind of know everything there is to know about the PS3. Cell has been done to death, RSX well... I'd like to think Nerve Damage is correct and it's some monster, but I imagine it's what we've been told, a doubled up 6800U on a 128 bit memory bus, which actually means for some operations it's actually slower than a single 6800U on a 256 bit bus, for others, faster.

To be honest, I'm impressed by a single 6800U, my PC GPU is way less powerful than that. Applying 2 of them to say Metal Gear blows my mind.

I think there's a point the speculation goes and we talk about the great things the machine we have rather than the machine we'd want can do for gaming. There's great technologies behind PS3, Blu Ray, Bluetooth, Cell, RSX, HDMI, OpenGL, Linux, that are unique to PS3.

I'd like to see more on the cool way nVidia GPUs do shadows, or more on upcoming games, or deeper into programming examples.

I'm not that interested in how people aren't interested in gaming anymore. If you're not, leave, there are other hobbies and interests. Or how poor people are. I don't know, get a paper round or work some overtime if you can't scrape together $499.

The idea that some people have that they won't let a controller touch their hands unless every single game is photo realistic seems silly to me. Go play some Tetris or Lemmings, these are what gaming is all about. Fresh ideas.
Apple, you understand what this forum is all about! (+rep for you ;-))

[Infernal]

If the Ultra One report is true, the use of hardware emulation casts some doubts on what kind of visual updates we can expect for PlayStation 2 games. PlayStation games saw a few marginal upgrades when running on the PlayStation 2 due to the PlayStation graphics chip being emulated entirely through software running on the PS2's Graphics Synthesizer.
Thats the part that worries me the most. I was looking forward to seeing upscaled games with increased AA and whatnot but that seems to be almost an impossibility now.

[Nameless]

Thats the part that worries me the most. I was looking forward to seeing upscaled games with increased AA and whatnot but that seems to be almost an impossibility now.
Agreed, but I will take a more reliable backward compatibility over enhanced performance anytime... I find it very frustrating with the 360 when my approved XBox titles freeze up my console...

[LaLiLuLeLo]

@ infernal-no, ps2 had a psone chip inside of it for the psone games.

[Infernal]

@ infernal-no, ps2 had a psone chip inside of it for the psone games.
Yes but I didnt notice any upscaling or AA on PS1 games.

[venomv]

As for Wounding he and I have been in contact over PM, and he has left for the time being due to the atmosphere here.

And I don't blame him...........has crossed my mind too as every thread turns into the same crap.

About the flash memory, I think it's a good idea, should add more security. And adds to the possibility that you may be able to hook up a non-PS3 HDD and it would function correctly.

[Kiosko]

Backwards Compatability is very important to me. Sometimes when i'm playing a game, then i think for a moment: "How did games get this good?"And a bunch of other times I just want to revist the lands of some of my favorite characters.

[Sephiroth_VII]

As for Wounding he and I have been in contact over PM, and he has left for the time being due to the atmosphere here.
I'm thinking about taking a break to. If it wasn't for things like the MGS4 thread, I probably would too. I think I might take a few months break, chasing XBOX trolls over at the IGN PlayStation forum... Never looses it's charm.[J/K]

[Smokey]

I think to be honest we kind of know everything there is to know about the PS3. Cell has been done to death, RSX well... I'd like to think Nerve Damage is correct and it's some monster, but I imagine it's what we've been told, a doubled up 6800U on a 128 bit memory bus, which actually means for some operations it's actually slower than a single 6800U on a 256 bit bus, for others, faster.

To be honest, I'm impressed by a single 6800U, my PC GPU is way less powerful than that. Applying 2 of them to say Metal Gear blows my mind.

I think there's a point the speculation goes and we talk about the great things the machine we have rather than the machine we'd want can do for gaming. There's great technologies behind PS3, Blu Ray, Bluetooth, Cell, RSX, HDMI, OpenGL, Linux, that are unique to PS3.

I'd like to see more on the cool way nVidia GPUs do shadows, or more on upcoming games, or deeper into programming examples.

I'm not that interested in how people aren't interested in gaming anymore. If you're not, leave, there are other hobbies and interests. Or how poor people are. I don't know, get a paper round or work some overtime if you can't scrape together $499.

The idea that some people have that they won't let a controller touch their hands unless every single game is photo realistic seems silly to me. Go play some Tetris or Lemmings, these are what gaming is all about. Fresh ideas.
your a ledgend mate totally agree :)

[Domination]

The PS3 comes equipped with, in addition to a default hard disk, a "large amount of flash memory," the magazine reveals. This is used to house the operating system and all future system updates. Based on the wording in the magazine, it seems that the hard disk is to be used exclusively for multimedia content and will not contain any system features; users will, after all, be able to swap the built in hard drive out with any standard drive they pick up at a computer hardware store.
http://www.gametab.com/news/589491/
Interesting... It's just like the PSP. I wonder will you be able to cut the game off and pick up where you left off as well.

[Smokey]

Interesting... It's just like the PSP. I wonder will you be able to cut the game off and pick up where you left off as well.
that is a great feature of the psp i love :)

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Yeah really great. Games don't hold you hostage if you can't save 'em on the spot anymore!