Catching Up With Sony's Kaz Hirai At E3

[Nerve-Damage]

Catching Up With Sony's Kaz Hirai At E3 (http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/06/catching_up_wit.html)

Sorry if this has been posted already. :uhh:

Here's an interview I did with Kaz Hirai, CEO of Sony's U.S. game division, at E3.

In the North American market for video game consoles, Sony has dominated the scene. Kazuo "Kaz'' Hirai is president and chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment America, a division he has run since 1999 and worked at since 1995.

As Sony launches its PlayStation‚3 worldwide in November, it is Hirai's job to make sure everything goes well as Sony fights off challenges from Nintendo and Microsoft's next-generation game consoles. Hirai is known for his controversial statements. In 2002, he declared, "The console wars are over'' because Sony had a commanding lead with the PlayStation 2. But Sony is now in a tough fight with Microsoft and Nintendo, and Hirai has to execute on the North American launch of the PlayStation 3.


Q: What was the reaction to your press conference about the PlayStation 3?

A: It was a positive reaction. People were generally excited we came out with a lot of news like the launch dates in each region, prices and the quantities we would ship. We had playable code for games that a lot of people were not expecting. There weren't too many
playables last year.

Q: Some people wondered why you revealed so much information about the PS 3 price, $499 or $599 depending on the version, when that might actually hurt you. If the price scares off consumers now, they might buy an Xbox 360 instead.

A: We get no breaks. If we didn't say the price, you would be all over us for that. I think that is the right price for what we're bringing to consumers.

Q: Why did you include the Blu-ray high-definition storage drive?

A: This is a console that is here for the long haul and is not on a five-year cycle. Microsoft is coming out with an HD-DVD accessory for HD movies as an add-on only a year after they launched. That is exactly the kind of thing we don't want to do.

Q: You said that "the next generation doesn't start until we start it.'' Some perceived that as a very arrogant comment.

A: It's been that way for three console generations. History has a way of proving the forward-looking things that we say. With our original PlayStation, we ushered in the era of the CD-ROM and 3-D. With the PlayStation 2, we correctly said that the next-generation starts with PS 2, not Dreamcast. With the PlayStation 3, we are keeping to our belief that we have the true next-generation console. It's all about the games. We all know that. It's about delivering compelling entertainment to the consumer once again. We are well on our way to showing that. We are in a very compelling position. I'm confident we will stay in the lead.

Q: What was the message you wanted to send at the Electronic Entertainment Expo show?

A: Everybody has different messages. What we wanted to do was put into context what we did at the press conference last year. Last year was technology-intensive as we talked about the technology behind the PlayStation 3. This year, we wanted to see that technology manifest itself in playable games. We give people a sense of the reality. It's coming in November. You can see we delivered the message.

Q: There is talk that game technology is going to be adapted to other purposes over time. What do you think?

A: Cell is designed for gaming applications. High-definition TV output. There are other applications of the Cell technology. Medical imaging is quite possible. It is image-intensive. It seems like a good example of application in other fields. But we have to build enough chips to supply the PlayStation 3. We have to meet the market demand first.

Q: How do you win the console war?

A: It comes down not to what you offer in terms of the console itself. It comes down to what you run on the console. Is it attractive or not? That doesn't change with any generation of console. Blu-ray and taking advantage of it is going to be important.

Q: Microsoft had a hard time supplying consoles at the launch. Will Sony do better?

A: We will have 2 million consoles for the launch, 2 million more by the end of the year, and 2 million by the end of March. The launch window and the supply you have at that time is very important. But 6 million is a pretty good number.

Q: What do you think of online games? Microsoft believes it has an advantage there.

A: Thank you, Microsoft, for helping us in taking consumers online. The most important thing for us is to make sure online is an integral part of the experience. It's not a "nice to have'' feature. It enables new businesses. But we do want to make sure that we have the content for both online and offline.

Q: Are you concerned that you're going to have higher costs than the other console makers?

A: This console is going to do much more. We have made sure this is a console for the long haul. If you look at the lack of Blu-ray on Microsoft, what do you do if the game requires 40 to 50 gigabytes? Put it on three disks? Let's look under the hood and see total value we are delivering to consumers. At five to 10 years, you see the lasting power of the PS‚2. If you go out there now, there is a lot of PS‚2 software out there. From a consumer's view, who got the better value? If you look at which console is giving the publishers more time to amortize their development costs, the answer is pretty obvious.

Q: What do you think of Microsoft's Live Anyware project where they will link the communications on the PC, cell phone and the Xbox 360?

A: The more interesting play for me is connectivity with portable devices. That means interaction with the PlayStation Portable and the PS‚3. Cell phones are not primarily designed for entertainment. We can make the PSP and the PS‚3 work together. That's a step up in entertainment and a new value to offer the consumer.

[whiteknight]

A: It was a positive reaction. People were generally excited we came out with a lot of news like the launch dates in each region, prices and the quantities we would ship. We had playable code for games that a lot of people were not expecting. There weren't too many
playables last year.

Why Kaz, why?

...

Needless to say this guy hasn't been on very many message boards.

[masteratt]

He seems like a down to earth guy, he bases his answers on the ideology Sony bases their decisions on and seems to have a pretty good logic behind his answers.

I like the gentlemanship the guy showed "Thank you, MS, for helping us take consumers online."

Overall, nothing new but all the points that were made previously are a bit more clear I think.

EDIT: You hardly expect him to say "Our E3 sucked..." I ignore questions about E3 in a Sony interview now, they all know it sucked but they all say "good info provided, playable for the 1st time blah blah"

[Viper]

A: It's been that way for three console generations. History has a way of proving the forward-looking things that we say. With our original PlayStation, we ushered in the era of the CD-ROM and 3-D. With the PlayStation 2, we correctly said that the next-generation starts with PS 2, not Dreamcast.I'll never get over KK's arrogance.

CD and 3D came out before PS and the Saturn was even decently popular. Dreamcast started that gen, period. It failed to finish it but it most certainly started it.

A: We get no breaks. If we didn't say the price, you would be all over us for that.KK, no one expected a price at E3. That figure has traditionally been held close to chest up until just a few months before launch, not half a year prior.

I'm just rambling on so I'll head for bed now.

[section]

A: It's been that way for three console generations. History has a way of proving the forward-looking things that we say. With our original PlayStation, we ushered in the era of the CD-ROM and 3-D. With the PlayStation 2, we correctly said that the next-generation starts with PS 2, not Dreamcast.
I'll never get over KK's arrogance.
Well it was Kaz Hirai's interview.

[kaphwan]

CD and 3D came out before PS and the Saturn was even decently popular. Dreamcast started that gen, period. It failed to finish it but it most certainly started it.

Motion sensing technology came out before Nintendo but they're allowed to tout it as their unique innovation, whilst arrogantly calling out Sony for developing an independent technology (oh wait, stealing).

Double standard.

Edit: To ensure this isn't misconstrued, let the record show that my statement imlplied that *all* businesses keep a certain level of bullshit to their speakings.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

No, playstation didn't pioneer 3d graphics and disc based game formats.
It did however make them relevant.

[Old_Timer!]

The Sega Saturn, did come out with that CD format first but it was a add-on. Unless you were trully hardcore you didn't get it, I knew one kid that had it, PS just made it standard. I believe that Microsoft HD-DVD add-on will be in that same boat.
Off topic, was there ever a topic made on the launch prices for all previous consoles, it just came to mind how expensive the Neo Geo was. :2cents:

[CARTIER90]

The Sega Saturn, did come out with that CD format first but it was a add-on

I think you mean the Mega-CD, the add-on for the magadrive/genesis, it sucked ass.............

[Hrama]

Well it did have Sonic CD, so it has an eternal place in my heart. So I guess it wasn't a complete failure, Oh wait...

[Sephiroth_VII]

Wasn't Sonic cd a total failiure, since most people didn't own the cd-add-on?

[Applefiend]

I'll put in a word for my previous life, coding Amiga software.

Commodore CD TV pioneered disk based games consoles. It had 3D, of a sort (Star Glider etc), could do motion video, directly spooled off the disk into a quarter of the screen. :)

It was eons before the Saturn or Mega CD. Phillips CDi was out the same time, but 3D and a real games console, forget abawt it!

If anything Sega Mega CD was the first indication Sega were losing it, it was the first of many disasters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDTV

[Sephiroth_VII]

I still love my old SEGA MegaDrive though. SEEEGAAA.... I can't forget that sound... Danm you Sonic, you have infested my mind!!!

[Nodieza]

I'll never get over KK's arrogance.

CD and 3D came out before PS and the Saturn was even decently popular. Dreamcast started that gen, period. It failed to finish it but it most certainly started it.

KK, no one expected a price at E3. That figure has traditionally been held close to chest up until just a few months before launch, not half a year prior.

I'm just rambling on so I'll head for bed now.

Yeah viper maybe, but if you look at it this way...

"I was the first to climb Mt. Everest!"

"Did you make it to the top?"

"NO"

"Then shut up"

Can you see what I am getting at? They earned such braging rights. I enjoyed my Dreamcast, but Playstation was better in tearms of lastability and just overall goodness and the Ps2 beat the Dreamcast no questions and before the playstation nobody gave me a decent reason to buy their system after the Super Nintendo and Genesis. Maybe Nights and Panzar Dragon.

I think you can overlook the Saturn, etc. but I don't think you can overlook the Playstation. Maybe that was just my upbringing and such through that era of gaming. Even in my old (REALLY OLD) game review magazines the Saturn and such were fairly overlooked but once playstation came out everything changed. Nobody talked about the Saturn version of Resident Evil, but the Playstation Resident Evil was a huge sucess and only one system spawned sequels for it, PSOne anybody?

I don't know, I am rambling as well.

Peace!

[Nodieza]

The Sega Saturn, did come out with that CD format first but it was a add-on

I think you mean the Mega-CD, the add-on for the magadrive/genesis, it sucked ass.............

It was worth it for Sonic CD alone, that game rocked so much, but yeah overall not too many good games. I bought mine used, it game with my Genesis and 32X, oh no's the 32X!!!!!!!....... now THAT sucked.... :thumbl:

[LaLiLuLeLo]

No, playstation didn't pioneer 3d graphics and disc based game formats.
It did however make them relevant.

:smoke:

[Viper]

Well it was Kaz Hirai's interview.My bad, good catch. Not good though if two execs have such arrogance.



Motion sensing technology came out before Nintendo but they're allowed to tout it as their unique innovation, whilst arrogantly calling out Sony for developing an independent technology (oh wait, stealing).

Double standard.

Edit: To ensure this isn't misconstrued, let the record show that my statement imlplied that *all* businesses keep a certain level of bullshit to their speakings.Wait, NCL never once said Sony stole the idea and in fact publicly stated they were flattered that Sony was now using it too.



Yeah viper maybe, but if you look at it this way...

"I was the first to climb Mt. Everest!"

"Did you make it to the top?"

"NO"

"Then shut up"
That doesn't make sense. Just because they didn't win the console race means they shouldn't be given credit for their introduction of innovation to gaming?



This is exactly the kind of misconceptions I'm talking about. Old_Timer beloved Sony truly came out with CD standard first. How many people will now believe Sony did CD and 3D first with no one around to inform them of the truth?

LaLi, how did Sony make what was already a standard relavent?


Sony has a great product line and great console heritage, why the need to spout fallacies?

[Nameless]

I think Kaz handled the questions well and he was correct about the pricing, if they waited it would have been media lash back no win situation...

Kaz represents Sony you should expect him to be somewhat arrogant regarding their products. I noticed he mentioned Blu-ray a few times regarding gaming, but I have yet to see a gaming reason for the inclusion of the format. Sony needs desperately to release a killer app only available due to BD.

Also, Kaz comments regarding mobile gaming are incorrect...
Mobile handsets now support OpenGL and have powerful processors and memory. We will start to see more multi-player and compelling titles on the mobile platform. Microsoft doing Live Anywhere is forward thinking and an attempt to make the live platform more pervasive... It would not surprise me if eventually Sony moves into this space considering they manufacture cell phones... Peace

[venomv]

That was Kaz, not Ken, Nameless.

[Viper]

Hirai said he is "confident" Sony will maintain its position as market leader once the next-gen battle kicks off, stating: "With the PlayStation 3, we are keeping to our belief that we have the true next-generation console."
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17486

I thought they were no longer concerned with marketshare?
http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=57534

[masteratt]

That's the reason.
They are so confident that they don't actually think about the marketshare. They are like "pfft, fuck MS and Nintendo, we own this shit."
They will word it in every other possible way though "If market expands we don't care how much share we hold" ?? Yeah right, and blondes aren't dumb ;).

The bottom line is every company is about profit otherwise they won't be a company.
Learn to over-look the "mind games" and "tricks" that bussiness brings.
Sony do it better than anyone else but I don't mind since they do actually deliver the goods.

[Old_Timer!]

This is exactly the kind of misconceptions I'm talking about. Old_Timer beloved Sony truly came out with CD standard first. How many people will now believe Sony did CD and 3D first with no one around to inform them of the truth?

LaLi, how did Sony make what was already a standard relavent?


Sony has a great product line and great console heritage, why the need to spout fallacies?

Well Viper at the time you speak of, Nintedo was top dog and so the standard was cartridge based.....

[Nameless]

That was Kaz, not Ken, Nameless.
My bad...

[Viper]

Well Viper at the time you speak of, Nintedo was top dog and so the standard was cartridge based.....
2 things.

1. Nintendo was quickly on its way to using CDs because Sony was partnering with Nintendo to supply a CD drive for their next system. Sony wanted high royalties and equal name branding and Nintendo balked and had no CD supplier to work with at the time so stuck with carts.

2. Before the N64 came out with its carts, 5 systems had already released that had CD gaming as standard, plus 2 game system add ons. To add to that, Sony had a huge sales lead prior to N64 coming out so how were cartidges leading the market at that point?

[Old_Timer!]

2 things.

1. Nintendo was quickly on its way to using CDs because Sony was partnering with Nintendo to supply a CD drive for their next system. Sony wanted high royalties and equal name branding and Nintendo balked and had no CD supplier to work with at the time so stuck with carts.

2. Before the N64 came out with its carts, 5 systems had already released that had CD gaming as standard, plus 2 game system add ons. To add to that, Sony had a huge sales lead prior to N64 coming out so how were cartidges leading the market at that point?

I'm talking to the years prior to Playstation debut, I'm talking about super nes, turbo graphics days etc. I know there were other systems that used the CD format for games but they never became the industry standard. Anyways Viper why are we here talking about this crap? Let the past rest in peace.
Nintendo Divorces Sony and Marries Philips
Sony and Nintendo abandon their joint CD peripheral, which Sony had reputedly completed in prototype form. Rumors surface indicating that Sony lawyers had skillfully crafted an agreement that allowed Sony to reap publishing profits from SNES/Super Famicom CD-based games, profits Nintendo sought to retain. Nintendo announces plans to work with Philips to create a CD-ROM compatible with the Philips CD-i. Sony, disgusted, finishes work on a number of SNES games, scraps the old "PlayStation" developed for Nintendo, and sets its engineers to work on developing a 32-bit CD-only game machine to unseat Nintendo in Japan and the United States.
source: http://www.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/video/hov/p7_02.html

[Domination]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17486

I thought they were no longer concerned with marketshare?
http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=57534

I don't think it was meant per se, though. Just selling 100 consoles and profitting a small amount of money is not the same as selling 100 consoles packed with mainly YOUR products sold outside of that market and profitting twice the amount. I'm sure marketshare matters, but incase enough isn't achieved, they will still remain in a comfortable position through profit, still. It is like Nintendo; they are the most profitable firm of the three, yet lacking a large consumer base compared to the other two. So by focusing on profit first and marketshare last, you are consolidation your future and not someone elses.

[pari]

2 things.

1. Nintendo was quickly on its way to using CDs because Sony was partnering with Nintendo to supply a CD drive for their next system. Sony wanted high royalties and equal name branding and Nintendo balked and had no CD supplier to work with at the time so stuck with carts.

2. Before the N64 came out with its carts, 5 systems had already released that had CD gaming as standard, plus 2 game system add ons. To add to that, Sony had a huge sales lead prior to N64 coming out so how were cartidges leading the market at that point?

1. Not exactly, Nintendo kind of ditched Sony at the last moment and went with Philips for their CD-i stuff. At that time CD-i was to become the next big thing

2. PS one did not exactly have the market share what it had later, till Sega Saturn every console was pretty much cartridge based. And N64 cartridge cost about $60.00 (Paper Mario $59.99). The Sega CD add-on didnot fly anywhere.

[Viper]

You guys are trying to stretch my point beyond its original point and that is Sony did not use CD first nor make it popular despite what Kaz said. Look at what some of you guys are saying. You're saying anything and everything you can to ensure some validity to Kaz' statement even though it's flat out wrong.

I'm just trying to find out why he'd state something so blatantly incorrect and after hearing KK say it as well with regards to 3D as well, I'm really taken aback at some arrogance and false vaunting.

[pari]

You guys are trying to stretch my point beyond its original point and that is Sony did not use CD first nor make it popular despite what Kaz said. Look at what some of you guys are saying. You're saying anything and everything you can to ensure some validity to Kaz' statement even though it's flat out wrong.

I'm just trying to find out why he'd state something so blatantly incorrect and after hearing KK say it as well with regards to 3D as well, I'm really taken aback at some arrogance and false vaunting.

Sorry, I agree with you Sony did not introduce CD(optical memory disk) first, nor the 3D system. They made it popular by default since PSone got huge market share. Since no company is Saint(including Sony, MS, Nintendo..... etc), rap Sony for stretching the truth.
Arrogance is the first step towards fall, hopefully Sony does not Stumble with PS3. Sony has pushed the hardware boundary better than Nintendo and Sega in introducing newer technology. But Nintendo was the first to put Rambus memory in the console... Sega also pushed the boundary but ran out of cash to sustain it....

[PhYmon]

Motion sensing technology came out before Nintendo but they're allowed to tout it as their unique innovation, whilst arrogantly calling out Sony for developing an independent technology (oh wait, stealing).

Come on! get over it Sony has it and Nintendo too.. everybody is coping or stealing ideas from others.. and we already made a thread about this topic (the controller)

[Nodieza]

My bad, good catch. Not good though if two execs have such arrogance.



Wait, NCL never once said Sony stole the idea and in fact publicly stated they were flattered that Sony was now using it too.




That doesn't make sense. Just because they didn't win the console race means they shouldn't be given credit for their introduction of innovation to gaming?



This is exactly the kind of misconceptions I'm talking about. Old_Timer beloved Sony truly came out with CD standard first. How many people will now believe Sony did CD and 3D first with no one around to inform them of the truth?

LaLi, how did Sony make what was already a standard relavent?


Sony has a great product line and great console heritage, why the need to spout fallacies?


People don't care what you do nowdays, people care how you do it.

Yes he is arrogant to say that but if you read closely he said he "ushered in the era", "not the invention of" so in that reguard he's just stating an opinion and to some it is fact, cd and 3d games weren't very popular untill the Sony Playstation is basically what he said.

EDIT: Sony practically made 3d+CD a standard from that point on, therefore making it fiting to say they ushered in the era of cd and 3d.

So who has the misconceptions? I don't see any fallacies.

Bill Gates stole The Macintosh GUI idea but nobody gives props to Apple for being the first even though it shaped what Windows is today. And I am sure Bill Gates has made a claim of "ushering the new era of OS's" Would he be wrong to say so?

[PhYmon]

See noone cares now.. and to tell u the truth stealing or coping are what makes this world move.. if not we would be stacked by now..

[Black Dragon37]

Q: What was the reaction to your press conference about the PlayStation 3?
A: It was a positive reaction. People were generally excited we came out with a lot of news like the launch dates in each region, prices and the quantities we would ship. We had playable code for games that a lot of people were not expecting. There weren't too many playables last year.The reaction was mixed. Very mixed. Maybe there was a positive reaction to the games, but not to the console itself, especially on its price and SKUs.

Q: Some people wondered why you revealed so much information about the PS 3 price, $499 or $599 depending on the version, when that might actually hurt you. If the price scares off consumers now, they might buy an Xbox 360 instead.

A: We get no breaks. If we didn't say the price, you would be all over us for that. I think that is the right price for what we're bringing to consumers.If anything, the announcement of the prices six months in advance is one of the better things Sony did at the conference. The prices may be right, but it's seen as too expensive by most gamers (even the Japanese, which is saying something), and now complaints like "I didn't ask for a Blu-ray drive or an HDMI or this/that bullshit - I just want a console" are emerging rapidly.

Q: Why did you include the Blu-ray high-definition storage drive?
A: This is a console that is here for the long haul and is not on a five-year cycle. Microsoft is coming out with an HD-DVD accessory for HD movies as an add-on only a year after they launched. That is exactly the kind of thing we don't want to do.Apart from the criticism towards Microsoft, this is a pretty justified answer, especially when the PS3 is supposed to be the trojan horse for the Blu-ray disc.

Not forgetting its big space for games too. ;)

Q: You said that "the next generation doesn't start until we start it.'' Some perceived that as a very arrogant comment.

A: It's been that way for three console generations. History has a way of proving the forward-looking things that we say. With our original PlayStation, we ushered in the era of the CD-ROM and 3-D. With the PlayStation 2, we correctly said that the next-generation starts with PS 2, not Dreamcast. With the PlayStation 3, we are keeping to our belief that we have the true next-generation console. It's all about the games. We all know that. It's about delivering compelling entertainment to the consumer once again. We are well on our way to showing that. We are in a very compelling position. I'm confident we will stay in the lead.While he's given some good back up, it's a little arrogant. History has a way of repeating and not repeating itself at the same time, e.g. Nintendo at its prime back in the day.

Q: Microsoft had a hard time supplying consoles at the launch. Will Sony do better?

A: We will have 2 million consoles for the launch, 2 million more by the end of the year, and 2 million by the end of March. The launch window and the supply you have at that time is very important. But 6 million is a pretty good number.Fingers crossed for this. :thumpsup:

Q: What do you think of online games? Microsoft believes it has an advantage there.

A: Thank you, Microsoft, for helping us in taking consumers online.That sentence sounds more arrogant than grateful, IMO. lol

Q: Are you concerned that you're going to have higher costs than the other console makers?

A: This console is going to do much more. We have made sure this is a console for the long haul. If you look at the lack of Blu-ray on Microsoft, what do you do if the game requires 40 to 50 gigabytes? Put it on three disks? I doubt we'll see games exceeding 25GB for at least 5 years. I think he should've criticised on the HD-DVD drive not being built-in for the Xbox 360... but he's a Sony biggie. ;)

Let's look under the hood and see total value we are delivering to consumers. At five to 10 years, you see the lasting power of the PS‚2. If you go out there now, there is a lot of PS‚2 software out there. From a consumer's view, who got the better value? If you look at which console is giving the publishers more time to amortize their development costs, the answer is pretty obvious.I think that'll depend on the consumer - if the PS3 doesn't sell well, publishers will gradually leave it for another console, no?

Q: What do you think of Microsoft's Live Anyware project where they will link the communications on the PC, cell phone and the Xbox 360?

A: The more interesting play for me is connectivity with portable devices. That means interaction with the PlayStation Portable and the PS‚3. Cell phones are not primarily designed for entertainment. We can make the PSP and the PS‚3 work together. That's a step up in entertainment and a new value to offer the consumer.Hmmm...
Fair comment on connectivity between PSP and PS3. But what about mobile phones? Doesn't Sony make mobile phones? On top of that, mobile are being designed more and more for entertainment.

I can't comment anymore - I think my brain is fried. :jacko:

[Viper]

People don't care what you do nowdays, people care how you do it.

Yes he is arrogant to say that but if you read closely he said he "ushered in the era", "not the invention of" so in that reguard he's just stating an opinion and to some it is fact, cd and 3d games weren't very popular untill the Sony Playstation is basically what he said.

EDIT: Sony practically made 3d+CD a standard from that point on, therefore making it fiting to say they ushered in the era of cd and 3d.

So who has the misconceptions? I don't see any fallacies.

Bill Gates stole The Macintosh GUI idea but nobody gives props to Apple for being the first even though it shaped what Windows is today. And I am sure Bill Gates has made a claim of "ushering the new era of OS's" Would he be wrong to say so?
What do you mean wasn't very popular until PS? You say that like no one was buying the Sega Saturn. Several systems were already using CDs and polygons so how did the 6th system to use them make it a standard? You want a trade off, Nintendo didn't use analog controllers first, Vectrix did.

Yes, Gates would be wrong and there are millions that hate windows and prefer Macs. How can you say that no one give Apple props for the first windowed style OS? Those that don't simply don't know any better but that still means they are wrong.

[Nodieza]

Let me put it this way, my life could've gone by without me ever knowing the Saturn existed I saw it in K-mart one day and thought "Wow knights looks like a cool game" and never saw the system again, nobody I knew had it, nobody I knew wanted it.

The Playstation on the other hand changed everything, just about everyone I knew had one, planing on getting one or planning on getting a second.

In otherwords you can almost interchangably exchange the phrases

ushered in an era.
and
made mainstream.

Are you going to argue that Saturn was more popular than Playstation?

Yes so in a sense you could say Nintendo ushered in the era of Analog controllers. Because they made them mainstream after they came out.

In all honesty I dont know what the Vectrix is.

How can you say that people DO give props to Apple? Almost nobody knows, certainly the next generation of kids wont have a clue. The Windows OS was so popular that it started an era of GUI interface, Apple invented it, but Microsoft pushed it mainstream starting the era.

Tell me this, is it wrong to take an idea, let's say a disk based system + Polygons, make it better than all the rest of them at the time, in matter of fact so good that disks became standard afterwards (except the 64) is it so wrong for them to say they ushered in the cd + polygon era when one in three households had a Playstation? I'd call that the beggining of an era.

Sony showed that there was no going back to cartriges.

EDIT: Let me use this example, somebody invented guns it doesn't matter who, the era of guns didn't start when the first gun was invented or used. Untill guns became popular, or mainstream and used as a standard for combat, then they became mainstream and the era of the gun started and the era of the sword and arrow ended, not when they were invented, but when they were used widely to a large extent with effectiveness.

I am not trying to argue, I am just trying to get you to see the way I am thinking.

[Coded-Dude]

The Windows OS was so popular that it started an era of GUI interface, Apple invented it, but Microsoft pushed it mainstream starting the era.


Actually, Xerox invented it.....

[Nodieza]

double post mistake

[Nodieza]

^ Yes the Alto and its OS, 3 button mouse and keyboard, that just further goes to prove my point that an era doesn't really start untill the item is mainstreamed.

[Viper]

Nodieza, the problem is you're trying to dispute fact with anecdotal evidence. Do you realize how popular it was in Japan? Home of Sony? More Saturns were sold in Japan than N64's.

Sony didn't make them standard, Sony just sold the most. It was standard already given that 5 other consoles before it used CD's and most used polygons too. The only one of the time that didn't use CD's came out AFTER the PS anyway.

So by your logic you are saying it's OK that MS gets credited with ushering in the gui and windows style interface even though that's wrong?

[Nodieza]

Nodieza, the problem is you're trying to dispute fact with anecdotal evidence. Do you realize how popular it was in Japan? Home of Sony? More Saturns were sold in Japan than N64's.

Sony didn't make them standard, Sony just sold the most. It was standard already given that 5 other consoles before it used CD's and most used polygons too. The only one of the time that didn't use CD's came out AFTER the PS anyway.

So by your logic you are saying it's OK that MS gets credited with ushering in the gui and windows style interface even though that's wrong?

Viper you are right and I am wrong, sorry my arguement was faulty. :( I had a terrible night and morning and I guess I was just looking to argue...

Yes Microsoft should recieve credit for ushering in the gui style interface, definitly not all the credit.

Why is that wrong? If they made it mainstream and popular they deserve credit for that, no they don't deserve credit for inventing it because they didn't. Ushering in doesn't mean invented.

But ushering it in as a standard for home users was a big feat, once win98 (2nd edition *cough*) came out almost nobody would go back to a Dos command line interface (I know windows is just a shell for Dos but you know what I mean.) and a lot of people still chose command line DOS over the GUI Mac os and Win 98 (buggy as hell) for standard home operations .

So in other words the era of GUI operations didn't truely start untill win 98 2nd came out because that's when GUI became used the most, when the largest percent stop using the old way (command prompts) and changed over to the new (GUI style via Windows, not MacOS). Schools, homes, just about everyone except artists of various flavors used Windows 98 over the MacOS. Hence Win98 stared the GUI era, not invention.

Just like the Beatles and the Rolling stones ushered in the era of rock. African Americans invented it long before (earlier than the 1930's) the Beatles were around but the era of rock and roll didn't start untill the 1950's when it became mainstream due to the Beatles, etc, thus they are credited with ushering the era of rock and roll.

Do you not see what I am seeing?

OBTW I hate Windows :nono: I hope the PS3 starts a Linux revolution...