An important message for all members! *please read*

[stanDarsh]

I'm sure many of you know what I am regarding to already with this topic, but I will say this once, and for all! *This has got to stop!* The display of posts I witnessed in a thread that is now locked and the posts now removed, for the most part were appalling!

I have never in all my years as a member of these forums seen such behavior, even when Nintendo X was made an admin several months back, and that's saying something!

I cannot believe after all the hard work everyone pitches in around here, that this is what it has amounted to! Ask yourselves this, "Is the thread that got locked, the type of environment I want to be in and post around?" If the answer is yes, you may as well stop posting here and become a member of IGN's forums.

We need to work as a team if we are to continue being a strong close-knit community. That doesn't mean you can't have fun either, by all means, if you like to muck around keep it to the madhouse, it's a great way to blow off some steam, but by all means keep the PS3 forums (and most other E-mpire forums for that matter) in a presentable manner.

I'm not taking any sides either, all parties involved in today's incident are equally guilty. We all need to respect one another and what each member has to say. Remember that not everyone is going to have the same opinion, that is a part of life. Gaming is something that is meant to be fun, that we can all enjoy, choose your gaming platform (or platforms) and enjoy it for what it is, there is no need to knock others for the gaming platform they chose.

If you have a problem with someone, sort your differences over PM, if you are still not happy with the result you got, either; 1) Ignore that member, or 2) Report them to a Mod/admin. We take all feedback seriously, and do what we feel is best for the forums.

Anyway, I have said what I needed to say, I hope we can learn from this experience as a whole, and move forward.

[kaphwan]

It's unproductive and makes the forum look ugly.

I'll concede that everyone has the right to be pissed off when someone's being a total ass- hell, I'm guilty of this too- but you don't get anywhere by condescending and not showing the person in question any respect.

[VG Aficionado]

All right, I feel I have to post here.

I know my behaviour wasn't the best ever lately, and I have to say I have been harsh to two members here. I apologise for possible misunderstandings that led me to being overly harsh in particular moments.

woundingchaney, you of course are one of the two I'm talking about here; I want you to accept my apologies if you think I've been extremely harsh with you sometimes lately; you're probably going to say I have, and I'm probably going to say I haven't, but let's leave it at that.

I think I don't need to elaborate on the nature of the replies to the other member I'm talking about: it's not like he's the most loved guy around, so he reaps what he sows.

--------------------------------------------

EDIT: Big misunderstanding here.

--------------------------------------------

It is a moderator's duty to keep everything under control. Many of us here feel that the individual doesn't bother to behave correctly in the least and everything just keeps getting worse when it should be the contrary.

Anyway, once again, I do apologise for some recent childish posts of mine, and I want to let you all know that I want to contribute to make this forum interesting and more mature, and encourage clever people to come here to post their reasonable (seriously) opinions and contributions. Everyone has the right to be entitled to their own opinion and I respect that. I expect the same from everyone else towards me. I know nobody is perfect (and I don't expect that from anyone), but I'll make my best to not to be the opposite to perfect either.

[Black Dragon37]

What happened? What's going on?

[stanDarsh]

Kaphwan, VG, thank you for your comments.

@VG, I am a bit puzzled by one of your comments and I am still trying to work out this part of your post (If the comments below are about specific people you are referring to and want to talk about it, PM me, if it is something you feel I have done, I won't feel offended by your comments so don't worry if it is.):


I think I won't be alone when I say that it doesn't look like our moderators have cared enough about what's been happening lately. Actually, what I mean is that not only I feel they seem to have ignored some problems or they seemed to not having done anything to solve them, or being unable to solve it to say the least, but there's an incident that got me somewhat worried: I had the feeling a moderator deliberately ignored the problem and reproached a member of this forum for complaining about the behaviour of the individual that has caused so much stirring up lately while seemingly showing approval of said behaviour just because that member previously said something the moderator disliked at a personal level, which was an entirely different issue, and the fact that someone does something wrong in the particular opinion of a moderator doesn't automatically balance the wrongdoing of the individual. I could be totally wrong about this and I'd prefer to be wrong now, but just in case I am in the right track, I'd like to find out the truth about this and I would like to know if anyone knows what I'm talking about.

It is a moderator's duty to keep everything under control. Many of us here feel that the individual doesn't care to behave correctly and everything just keeps getting worse when it should be the contrary.

Let me say first and foremost, we've been watching the situation very carefully. It is very easy to say, "The staff aren't looking after our needs" but put yourself in our shoes for a minute. We wouldn't keep doing what we do, if we didn't care about the site, the forums and its members. I'd certainly stop being a Playstation forum moderator and staff member if I didn't care anymore.

It is certainly a moderator's duty to keep everything under control, but ultimately we are the last line of defense. We try to be here as much as possible, but as I'm sure you can appreciate, we all have other responsibilities in the real world too and hence can't be here for everything.

It is up to you guys to "moderate" yourself so to speak, you know what is appropriate here and what isn't, and therefor should post in a respectful manner, regardless of what has been said or done, and if someone posts something totally innappropriate, report it to a moderator or administrator.

I hate to name names, that's not what I'm about, however GLJVD, has had his posting priveleges removed from the Playstation forums until he has learned to post more appropriately here. However it takes 2 to tango. While it can be debated what his motives were for posting about the blu-ray laser diodes, would you say it was appropriate for many forums members to attack him and his credibility and dignity, calling him a liar and a fake, and asking him to show his E3 badge?

Many of the members here were asking for him to be banned straight away, however I raise the question is that fair? If we did that every time, we wouldn't have members like WoundingChaney still here. Everyone here deserves a second chance, and everyone can change should they be willing and have the desire to do so.

Perhaps this is not the case with JVD (Perhaps it is, who knows?) but he does make some good points from time to time. I believe if the members here could see where he was coming from and likewise he could see where you guys are coming from then this at large would be a more happier environment than it has been for the last few weeks.

Anyway I hope you can appreciate where I am coming from on this discussion, and feel free to continue it here or via PM. Alas I must retire to bed for now.

All the best

-Andy

[Angeljuice]

would you say it was appropriate for many forums members to attack him and his credibility and dignity, calling him a liar and a fake, and asking him to show his E3 badge?

In truth, that was entirely down to gljvd suggesting that Frosty was either a liar or an idiot. He made several claims that were proven untrue and others that he didn't even try to back up, draw your own conclusions.

[VG Aficionado]

@VG, I am a bit puzzled by one of your comments and I am still trying to work out this part of your post (If the comments below are about specific people you are referring to and want to talk about it, PM me, if it is something you feel I have done, I won't feel offended by your comments so don't worry if it is.):Yeah. Sorry, I haven't been specific because I thought I shouldn't post names and accuse this particular moderator here. It's not you, so don't worry about that. I will PM you after I find the posts that will explain what I'm talking about.

Let me say first and foremost, we've been watching the situation very carefully. It is very easy to say, "The staff aren't looking after our needs" but put yourself in our shoes for a minute. We wouldn't keep doing what we do, if we didn't care about the site, the forums and its members. I'd certainly stop being a Playstation forum moderator and staff member if I didn't care anymore. Just in case, I want to say I didn't mean your job is easy or that you don't care at all (you are actually very good at locking unnecessary threads and making this forum clean). It's just that the whole JVD thing made many of us think his behaviour didn't have any limits. I guess that's the reason why he was attacked eventually and many times before.

I hate to name names, that's not what I'm about, however GLJVD, has had his posting priveleges removed from the Playstation forums until he has learned to post more appropriately here. However it takes 2 to tango. While it can be debated what his motives were for posting about the blu-ray laser diodes, would you say it was appropriate for many forums members to attack him and his credibility and dignity, calling him a liar and a fake, and asking him to show his E3 badge?Like I said, I know I've behaved childishly myself. However, I do understand why several members attacked and disliked him.

That said, I'm glad we won't have to see him in a good while. I would be lying if I said I liked him in the least. And to be totally honest, I don't expect him to ever behave in a way his posts won't be refused by many members here in case he comes back. After so many complaints, he kept on calling us trolls and considering himself the voice of reason of this forum and the 360 avenging man. It's sad because he's serious when he says that.

Many of the members here were asking for him to be banned straight away, however I raise the question is that fair? If we did that every time, we wouldn't have members like WoundingChaney still here. Everyone here deserves a second chance, and everyone can change should they be willing and have the desire to do so.

Perhaps this is not the case with JVD (Perhaps it is, who knows?) but he does make some good points from time to time.Just my opinion, but I think he's already have his second and third opportunities, and more. I believe he's been PMed many times about his behaviour and he just got worse. I also know for a fact that he behaves the same way in other forums. I do not expect him to ever behave differently. And I don't care he makes 1 or 100 good points when he considers trolls everyone who disagrees with him and his overly negative point of view.

[xbdestroya]

I have to ask, why haven't members who are annoyed by JVD's posts put him on their ignore lists? I mean it almost doesn't make sense to me, because if not reading his posts anymore is what it's all about, there's a way to do that that does not require moderator intervention in the least.

[VG Aficionado]

I have to ask, why haven't members who are annoyed by JVD's posts put him on their ignore lists? I mean it almost doesn't make sense to me, because if not reading his posts anymore is what it's all about, there's a way to do that that does not require moderator intervention in the least.That doesn't work for me. I kept on seeing threads ruined and I didn't know what was going on, so I had to see what was happening. The fact I ignore a forum member won't make any problem disappear. JVD should have been massively ignored and it didn't happen.

[frosty]

GLJVD can make some decent posts from time to time. I debated him for quite a while in my Blu-Ray thread in the tech forum, and came to realize what his problem is. He always debates with such bias, and such an attitude, that it gets on the last nerve of whoever is debating him. Instead of backing up his points with factual information, and coming back with a strong fact supported counter point when a point of his is debunked, he begins to talk in circles and takes more and more of an attitude with each reply. Like he's getting mad that we don't see it his way and that he can't prove otherwise. So, he resorts to making such negative posts that it stops just shy of being an outright personal attack. It's this posting style, on top of trying to back up his claims with obviously bogus lies (like playing a game that wasn't even playable at E3) that gets on the communities nerves so badly. Unlike Wounding, who can debate quite well and oddly happens to share the same viewpoint as GLJVD on many issues, he can't just settle it with a "chalk it up as a dissagreement" when the debate boils down beyond the relm of fact and into that of personal opinion. I gotta say, I got mad respect for that dude. He doesn't resort to negativity when things aren't going his way. So, it's this that has people so pissed off, and why the firestorm erupted when JVD made a thread on Blu-Ray diodes. Yes, the information in the thread really was a true news report. No, he did not deserve to get roasted in the thread. It was just the collective anger that had been building up in all of us posters from his negativity boiling over. It was wrong. Yes, it was a post made to try and bash PS3, (even though it said Sony had set aside enough diodes for PS3) and was another attempt from him to try and anger all of us by bashing the system. I've noticed that is his sole intent, to go through the forums pissing as many people off as he can by bashing PS3 at every chance he gets, whether it be factual, opinion, or just plain made up lies. This is the reason I thank you mods for taking away his posting privleges. He wasn't even trying to debate us at all, he was simply a firestarter running around trying his best to stir up trouble. This is why the whole E3 badge thing blew way out of proportion, with him trying to make bogus claims and then saying he didn't have proof to back them because "who would keep an e3 badge?"

(ahem)
http://www.baysidevideoproductions.com/e3cred.JPG

[Infernal]

I have to ask, why haven't members who are annoyed by JVD's posts put him on their ignore lists? I mean it almost doesn't make sense to me, because if not reading his posts anymore is what it's all about, there's a way to do that that does not require moderator intervention in the least.
Yah that didn't work for me either. Sure ignoring doesn't show you their posts, but a few things happen. First there is the small chance that their post actually added to the discussion and could be useful to read or else you will misunderstand something others are referring to. Second the post can be quoted and responded to, and then you can see it anyway. Third when there are 100 new posts in a thread and every other one of them is by the same person it kind of ruins the purpose of being at these forums.

I am glad some action has finally been taken as I was planning to leave these forums. I admit I have been harsh to said person but only when he was harsh to others or myself first and I apologize for that. However there was really no purpose to these forums for awhile when every other thread just turned into an argument and I hope that doesn't happen again.

P. S. - If Frosty said it, it must be true. ;)

[frosty]

Ignoring also does nothing for those who are looking at joining our forums. If someone leaves a forum and comes here in search of greener pastures, and sees posts like his all over the place, what kind of image does that make for PSInext?

As you say XBD... "Respect to all those who debate their positions using facts and reason rather than rumor and passion."

[VG Aficionado]

I see that I am not the only one who thinks ignoring a forum member will make no good, not even to oneself.

Really, ignoring a problem won't solve it.

[Leedogg]

Ignoring also does nothing for those who are looking at joining our forums. If someone leaves a forum and comes here in search of greener pastures, and sees posts like his all over the place, what kind of image does that make for PSInext?

As you say XBD... "Respect to all those who debate their positions using facts and reason rather than rumor and passion."

But it also doesn't look good for the forum. When a guest comes in, and sees people bashing him. (And the guest doesn't truely know, why they are bashing him) All the guest see's is "JVD's where's your E3 badge?" That right there will give "the guest" a since of this forum is just like IGNforums.


Even though, this forum is way better. One bad mistake, and we could potentially lose a bunch of members and guests.

I don't like JVD either, I just ignore the bad posts and read the good ones.

(which ain't many ;) )

[frosty]

I agree with you. There needs to be change on both sides.

And mods, you have done a great job in handling this situation, as always. Keep it up.

[xbdestroya]

VG and Infernal, point taken on the futility of the 'ignore' function.

But now that JVD is out of the mix, it's time to turn internally and correct the latent issues lying under the surface here at this forum, because not all of these issues are due to JVD, he just helped to expose them.

The criteria for posting in this forum has got to ratchet up immediately, and IMO fanboyism and hostility in certain parts of the Sony boards has reached critical levels. A lot of members here today weren't a part of PS3Insider when it was in existence, but back then we had out own 'other consoles' section, philosophy section, etc etc... It was a very 'other platform' friendly place, and very tolerent of contrary opinions. Today we are a part of something larger, and PSINext's 'sphere of influence' is limited to only Sony discussion.

But still, that legacy should live on. This place isn't about reinforcing each others love of Sony products, contrary to what some may think. There are other forums for that if that's anyone's goal here. It's about discussing the technology going into Sony's systems and the games being prodced for them. Whether you realize it or not, it is the remains of that legacy that have drawn most of you here - the idea of an 'intelligent' console discussion forum. As long as we maintain the discussion ratio slightly more towards the technology side of things than the Sony side of things, that feeling will be preserved. But when Sony 'friendly' discussion starts taking precendence over raw analysis, that's the day this forum will cease to be, and become just like every other Sony support group forum out there.

[Smokey]

my opinion is alot of this has come from E3, alot of frustration & anger has taken over. and i think when someone is rubbing something in your face "people" dont take kindely to it. it is not the forum i joined, but still a GREAT forum. im only a noob here so i cant say how it used to be but it has more of a "sony,sony,sony ra ra ra" feel to it now :)

[Viper]

There has been a dramatic shift post-E3 on the Sony boards due to the fact that most Sony fans aren't used to reading the 'bad news' regarding their console and it's taking them time to adjust to accepting the negative with the positive. Take the good with the bad but when you've been spoiled and it's just been all good for two generations, accepting the bad with the good can be difficult and we're seeing that happen right now. Members like JVD don't help the situation and only tend to push the sensitive buttons even more.



XBD, the PSINext sphere of influence is not limited to the Sony boards at all. Some members have branched out but it's true that most stay exclusive to just the Sony boards. Proof of this is we just made Yoshaw the member of the month for July but most people outside of the PS3 boards had no clue who he was.

Overall, I think the boards will come back together again.

[Smokey]

EDITED:There has been a dramatic shift post-E3 on the Sony boards due to the fact that most Sony fans aren't used to reading the 'bad news' regarding their console and it's taking them time to adjust to accepting the negative with the positive. Take the good with the bad but when you've been spoiled and it's just been all good for two generations, accepting the bad with the good can be difficult and we're seeing that happen right now. Members like JVD don't help the situation and only tend to push the sensitive buttons even more.
thats exactually how i wanted to say it viper :)

[LaLiLuLeLo]

You kids better behave or I will turn this car around right now!!!
[2 cents]
JVD sometimes does have a constructive opposing spin on things, or raises good points. But that's not as often as we'd like. Most of the time he's just being confrontational, hitting the beehive with a stick, or comparing ps3 to xbox 360, in as many threads as he can manage, even when it's irrelevant to the topic. Most of his posts aren't constructive, they're just opposition. Wounding prefers xbox but he concedes to facts and respects other's opinions, regardless of what side of the fence it's on! And the majority of us return the favor. but trolling through a ps3 forum to talk down to playstation fans is just bad form.

[xbdestroya]

T
XBD, the PSINext sphere of influence is not limited to the Sony boards at all. Some members have branched out but it's true that most stay exclusive to just the Sony boards. Proof of this is we just made Yoshaw the member of the month for July but most people outside of the PS3 boards had no clue who he was.

Overall, I think the boards will come back together again.

Well, member influence isn't really what I meant (congratulations Yoshaw by the way!)

I meant more, save for Sony discussion, the 'other' boards we used to have were subsumed by their E-mpire equivelents. And that's fine, I was really just more alluding to the origins of PSINext as a 'multi-console' friendly place of discussion - it wasn't a tangent to trying to echo the 'good old days' or anything.

By all means, I think members have no more or less influence than they choose to. I wasn't saying that individual voices have gotten weaker in the least. :smoke:

[yoshaw]

I am the one responsible for the E3 badge questioning. Yup, the first one who brought it up in the NT/RSX thread. Anyone else, they just were frustrated and probably saw it as a meaning to join in on taking it all out on JVD. So I'd personally not see any of these people responsible for the issue at hand.

There were many reasons that led me into that nervebreaking mode. Was I always like this? I don't know, you guys tell me?(!). I respect the mods, but I wouldn't have found myself in this post if things would have sorted out themselves sooner. Frosty's post words the situation better than I could ever attempt.

Still, I am truly sorry for my recent behaviour. Now that certain things have become realized, I feel there won't be another moment where I'll be cornered in the same situation as with JVD around.

[xbdestroya]

There were many reasons that led me into that nervebreaking mode. Was I always like this? I don't know, you guys tell me?(!). I respect the mods, but I wouldn't have found myself in this post if things would have sorted out themselves sooner. Frosty's post words the situation better than I could ever attempt.

I'm going to emphasize this sentence, because I think it warrants discussion here. The fact is, JVD was not prior banned, because he wasn't breaking any forum rules. If people can be tossed out of here when demanded by other members, then is there 'freedom' here to begin with? This is not a democracy, but what you have to understand is that myself and the other mods will use out powers to protect the voices of the minority, rather than automatically go with whatever the majority demands.

As it stands now, the present situation has come around via an executive admin decision, not because JVD was found 'guilty' of breaking the rules.

I am all for coming up with a PSINext 'code of conduct' in order to quasi-codify what we as a forum find acceptible behavior or not; let me know your thoughts. Maybe in the future it will make situations like this of the past month or so more easily manageable.

[frosty]

1. When debating someone, remain respectful of their opinions.

2. Back your points with facts. If it is an opinion, state it as such.

3. Do not derail a thread to argue your stance on any particular pice of hardware/software. Remain on topic.

Any other suggestions?

[VG Aficionado]

As it stands now, the present situation has come around via an executive admin decision, not because JVD was found 'guilty' of breaking the rules. Hmmm, let's see:

Message board rules (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=32198) (the rules I read before I joined this forum)

Keep to the thread topic: I don't think I need to explain this.It was characteristic of him to derail threads, either by bringing PS3-360 comparisons out of the blue or by opposing to every single sentence he didn't approve, which ended up becoming an obstacle to sensible discussion.

No Personal Attacks: Do not flame or attack anyone. If you don't agree with them then argue your point in an intelligent way. We don't mind heated discussion, just be sure to keep your cool.JVD repeatedly called us trolls even when we just disagreed with him. He did say that if he didn't exist, Xbox 360 would just be mercilessly attacked by us trolls (:huh:!!!). The "voice of reason" thing was a mixture of hilarity and "WTF?" to many of us, but it seemed to mean "I'm totally right and you're all wrong". I wouldn't consider his replies intelligent most of the time anyway, since he made up a lot of things instead of backing his points with evidence, called us liars many times, posted wrong information (intentionally?), and so on.

What's more ironic though, is that by not making him guilty of breaking this rule, some of us ended up attacking him. Anyway, I think our reaction was something closer to flaming than to attacking in the most strict sense of the word.

Board Moderators and Administrators reserve the right to delete, cancel, censor, expurgate or modify any post, in part or in whole, without prior notification or further explanation. We may also ban you from the forums, by prohibiting the post of messages, for any reason, without prior notification. I'm afraid we didn't see enough JVD posts deleted, censored or modified. As a result, threads were ruined too soon.

[xbdestroya]

VG, what are you dragging up there? Those are PS3Insider rules.

I don't see your join date as being pre E-mpire, and you and everyone else should realise, that those rules don't apply any longer.

Not that I disagree with the spirit of those rules in the least, I'm just saying... those aren't our rules.

@Frosty: I think that's a good start for a post-E3 2006 'ethics' framework.

[yoshaw]

Some members have branched out but it's true that most stay exclusive to just the Sony boards. Proof of this is we just made Yoshaw the member of the month for July but most people outside of the PS3 boards had no clue who he was.

I don't get it. Is that a good thing or bad thing? Because I think I've made it clear why in the MotM thread :)

I'm going to emphasize this sentence, because I think it warrants discussion here....

.... As it stands now, the present situation has come around via an executive admin decision, not because JVD was found 'guilty' of breaking the rules.

I am all for coming up with a PSINext 'code of conduct' in order to quasi-codify what we as a forum find acceptible behavior or not; let me know your thoughts. Maybe in the future it will make situations like this of the past month or so more easily manageable.


If you recall Xb, I think I was all for sending JVD PM warnings not long ago. And I'm all for minority rights but there should be a clear and distinct line between what's wrong and what's right. The same limit that has become the center of attention for the rest of us should also be there for the one who starts bending it first.

I think we'd have a difference of opinion on the JVD matter. Not long after Viper pointed that JVD has been addressed. He was back to his usual habits including namecalling, flamebaiting and thread derailing. Something like that was frustrating to see. I notice you mods don't share the sentiments but was it that hard to notice the obvious difference between JVD and Wounding?

A PSINext 'code of conduct' isn't needed. You guys are doing a great job as it is. If there is a need, the many senior members deserve a word in it more than I do.

[xbdestroya]

Yoshaw I appreciate your support for the mods and such, but I think the fact is a lot of members have felt 'abandoned' during this time to fend for themselves. I don't think a code of conduct is indicative of any sort of deteriorated state; on the contrary, maybe it's something we should have had long ago.

It would make easier to understand what members should be saying to other members, and help remove grey areas from situations in which moderator action should be taken. Plus, it might help to reduce the fanboyism in general, as it would add a structure to reprimand those who lash out at 'visitors' with opposing viewpoints. The 'respect' thing is paramount.

[Viper]

Yoshaw, it was to point out that many don't traverse beyond the Sony boards and vice versa. No, it's not a bad thing just proving a point.

Action was taken but he ignored it and continued so I revoked his Sony access completely.

Wounding has never really been a mod concern at all.

[cliffbo]

for Christ sake, is this still going on! VG has a valid point! (yes i do understand what you had to say in a convoluted way) this, to me, is the root of the problem. i also agree that the mods did seem a little tardy in their actions.

this is how society works I'm afraid: an individual refuses to succumb to the general rules of communication in a given arena and so the public begin to gravitate towards the said individual, who because he refuses to fall in line is condemned and rejected. good societies live and breath by these rules. unfortunately because of the nature of forums and the immunity from direct rejection is removed we have to rely on mods to do it for us, but still we try to follow the rules of society.

its got nothing to do with disagreements and differing opinions. it has everything to do with certain individuals deliberately provoking the usually placid posters that frequent E-mpire

everyone has bad days. everyone makes mistakes. everyone feels angry from time to time. but a combination of all three over a three to four week period is blatantly deliberate.

[xbdestroya]

Well Cliffbo I couldn't disagree with that line of thinking any more than I do right now.

Those theories are the sort that prop up fascist regimes. :smoke:

[Smokey]

i cant belive wounding is even being brought up in this thread? :( he is an awsome poster.

[VG Aficionado]

VG, what are you dragging up there? Those are PS3Insider rules.
I don't see your join date as being pre E-mpire, and you and everyone else should realise, that those rules don't apply any longer.Well, I did say "the rules I read before I joined this forum". I've been watching this forum long before I joined!

Not that I disagree with the spirit of those rules in the least, I'm just saying... those aren't our rules.Fine, but just where are your rules??? Those were the only ones I could find related to the PS forums (E-mpire Forums > PSINext > PSINext Information > Message Board Rules). I see no direct link to any rules here (http://forums.e-mpire.com/forumdisplay.php?f=199), here (http://forums.e-mpire.com/forumdisplay.php?f=44) or here (http://forums.e-mpire.com/index.php), so please tell me what rules were you following and where they are!

Anyway, in my memory there's a sentence along the lines of: "if you've been banned, that means we don't want to see you around for some time and you should spend that time to think over about what you did". I think I didn't see anything like that in those rules I posted before, so it's also possible I read other rules somewhere else here. Or maybe my memory is tricking me and I'm thinking of other forum's rules.

In any case, I think there was a direct link to some rules in the PS3 section a while ago. I don't see any now.

[cliffbo]

Well Cliffbo I couldn't disagree with that line of thinking any more than I do right now.

Those theories are the sort that prop up fascist regimes. :smoke:

i couldn't disagree with them more myself XB. but i'm afraid thats how it works :)

edit: good societies = calm, but calm isn't always progressive. point taken.

[yoshaw]

Yoshaw I appreciate your support for the mods and such, but I think the fact is a lot of members have felt 'abandoned' during this time to fend for themselves. I don't think a code of conduct is indicative of any sort of deteriorated state; on the contrary, maybe it's something we should have had long ago.

It would make easier to understand what members should be saying to other members, and help remove grey areas from situations in which moderator action should be taken. Plus, it might help to reduce the fanboyism in general, as it would add a structure to reprimand those who lash out at 'visitors' with opposing viewpoints. The 'respect' thing is paramount.

I'll do whatever I can in finding ways to make PSINext a better place to post. Thanks for the support you guys, I would have long gone from this place if it wasn't for you staff people and the amazing friendly atmosphere that you guys nurture here.

Yoshaw, it was to point out that many don't traverse beyond the Sony boards and vice versa. No, it's not a bad thing just proving a point.

Action was taken but he ignored it and continued so I revoked his Sony access completely.

Wounding has never really been a mod concern at all.

Oh, I see now. Well, mine is mostly due to constrained time on the net. I'm sure other would have similar viable reasons.

I'm sorry if I came off as complaining about you. It wasn't how I meant it. I was just trying to highlight the point where I really felt JVD was totally out of limits. I apologize for earlier my post as I didn't explain it clearly.

And for good reason. Wounding is a great and a very respectable member!

[xbdestroya]

Cliffbo, we'll avoid a philisophical discussion on the matter.

Right now I'm sure we'll all agree that it's more important to discuss how this will get handled the next time it comes up than to analyze what specifically applied to the JVD situation.

@VG: Yeah, there really *isn't* a current E-mpire set of posting rules. It's a combination of common sense and moderation rules on the mod-side of things. Which is why I'd like for there to be an informal set adopted here to help new members out.

[cliffbo]

don't get me wrong here fellas. the mods here are the best on the net. but sometimes they can be so understanding and thoughtful that things drag on a little. i too support the devs.

[xbdestroya]

1. When debating someone, remain respectful of their opinions, even if they disagree with your own.

2. Back up the points you make with facts. If it is an opinion, state it as such.

3. Do not derail a thread to argue your stance on any particular piece of hardware/software. Remain on topic.

Frosty I modified these slightly, but I think they make for a good framework to build upon.

[frosty]

well... I know one thing. E-mpire has always had lax rules, which is great. It is what brought me here from PS3forums. I got tired of being repremanded and having my little "points" taken away (more so than others who had committed the same offense) for things I get away with every day here at E-mpire. With that laid back freedom comes a drawback, we have to give a user a chance before pressing the ban button. Viper did the right thing. He warned JVD, gave him due time to shape up, and then did something about it when he failed to do so. He didn't even ban him from E-mpire all together either. The funniest thing is, the other forums I came from a year ago let people like JVD run amok all over the place, but ban people for things (like language, or link posting to a site that competes with them) that we do here all the time. I couldn't count the number of times I've seen articles or threads at PS3forums posted here, with no fuss made, but I get banned for linking to the E3xperience thread when we announced it? Things like that make me appreciate what we have here, even with the drawbacks that come with it. Action was taken, we just all needed to be patient.

Edit: Thanks XBD! :)

[VG Aficionado]

Is it me or are those rules heavily inspired by jvd's behaviour? :laugh: Anyway, I agree with them so far.

jvd, jvd, jvd... if there hadn't been such a drought of PS3 news we wouldn't be talking so much about this. I am so much looking forward to discussing what we're really here for.

[cliffbo]

XB i don't really think that a set of rules will help certain posters because they are not here to debate or have fun but are here to cause a stir. remember another poster way back? i mentioned that none of us really knew his personal problems and actually wished him luck. enough is enough though.

[frosty]

OK. Yeah, no news sucks...

Wait, forgot... Found new RSX specs here. (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?p=1150401#post1150401)

[xbdestroya]

Cliffbo I'm not saying that those rules *will* help anything, but they will give the mods more freedom of action than they presently have.

Something like the JVD situation is too complex on too many levels, which is why I feel more comfortable with it having been handled on the admin levels. Remember, despite everything here in the Sony section, JVD is actually a constructive member in the XBox and Nintendo sections.

...anyway, the rules aren't actually only to prevent a JVD recurrence, but to prevent hostility towards members who come post here that don't think Sony or PS3 are all that great. If someone from the NNow side of things comes and says: Sony's cosnole is too expensive..., well under these informal rules that statement would be protected from anyone that decided to rag on him or his opinion.

They're simple, yet they lead to a more respectful atmosphere. Like Frosty said, the truth is that this forum really does afford a lot of freedom.

[cliffbo]

Cliffbo I'm not saying that those rules *will* help anything, but they will give the mods more freedom of action than they presently have.

Something like the JVD situation is too complex on too many levels, which is why I feel more comfortable with it having been handled on the admin levels. Remember, despite everything here in the Sony section, JVD is actually a constructive member in the XBox and Nintendo sections.

...anyway, the rules aren't actually only to prevent a JVD recurrence, but to prevent hostility towards members who come post here that don't think Sony or PS3 are all that great. If someone from the NNow side of things comes and says: Sony's cosnole is too expensive..., well under these informal rules that statement would be protected from anyone that decided to rag on him or his opinion.

They're simple, yet they lead to a more respectful atmosphere. Like Frosty said, the truth is that this forum really does afford a lot of freedom.

agreed XB. suppose i was just stating the obvious.

[Beenie Man]

Well I am a new member here but I have been a long time reader. These forums have some of the most intelligent posters that I have ever seen on a PS3 section of a forum ever. However, the main villian in alot people's eyes has been gjvd for his anti Sony posting nature. I usually ignore most of his posts as it is his personal opinion even though his logics are very scewed(in my opinion). However, he has become the main target of hatred as he has so much hate in his post.

But I think he is just an angry gamer who might have had horrible past experiences with Sony and all their products. Or he might just a fanboy who wants to see how people reacts when he posts his beliefs on a subject matter or anti stature. Now, he is just an online poster. I am not going to have a grudge against somebody over the internet. If it were in the real outside world were he was an immature anti angry then yeah, but I have come across faaaaaaaar worser people.

So basically in my opinion, your opinion will always be your opinion, and somebody's opinion will always be their opinion. If you feel that your beliefs are right and good, then go ahead as nobody controls what you think. But anyway, he is one poster who may stir some trouble here and there(sometimes can be entertaining), but there will always be a forum with that person. What we must do is find a way to get pass the situation and learn to co exist with that person.

[venomv]

If it weren't for him constantly called us trolls I really wouldn't have much of a problem with him. Sure he always put his opinion forward as fact but really I got used to that.

[Infernal]

Whats the difference between the Black, Red, and Orange admin colors?

[Applefiend]

Guys who run e-mpire are lovely lovely people and aren't the type to blame something on one person... But I'm not.

Every positive being portrayed as a negative, every negative being over emphasized. Every PS3 game getting compared to a 360 game. I'd watch jvd post a piece of negative(often very old) piece of PS3 trash talk in the PS3 forum, then a hopelessly optimistic bit of 360 info in the 360 forum, and you understand what's happening, it's an agenda. Everything is bad with the Sony label on it. Your processor do 200Gflops? Well they're the wrong kind of Glops... They're sony glfops. and so on...

It just comes down to recognising in your self that everyone is biased, I've never met an unbiased gamer in my life and never will, and being on your best behaviour in forums that are kinda... enemy territory. Which is the way to win favour really. "That Applefiend is cool, he's a sony guy but he plays a bit of Halo and Mario Kart!"

So there's an agenda, this is it: they think this console is an over priced piece of junk with a crippled processor that's only good for streaming media,that's impossible to code for,and floating point doesn't matter anyway, an underpowered off the shelf GPU, hopelessly segmented memory, a crappy online service, a doomed Blu Ray player that's not needed for games,because every format Sony have ever made is a failure, there's no supply of components so only one thousand will be available at launch, and Sony are liars, promised the poor Sony fan boy fools Toy Story graphics, they used FMV to dupe idiot fan boys. And don't forget crappy japanese games with guys with giant girly spikey hair, because all japanese games are crap, well, except for the ones on 360 like Team Ninja. Not that it matters as Sony will be bankrupt in 2 years, and all their products break down in the first 3 months anyway. And theives, they stole the Wiimote.

Did I miss anything?

And every post is there to support it.

I just don't want to hear that crap. I know different. There's a real attempt to get the above message into everyone's head with so called "facts" to support it, and I don't want to read it at eMpire. If you dismiss the agenda, you're an idiot, a fanboy. Sony duped you. Then one day you'll walk into a shop and buy a 360 and you'll be redeemed, finally saw through the Sony lies...

Constantly hearing the agenda stated and dismissed is unreadable, unentertaining, and whenever anyone states the agenda they need to leave.

[xbdestroya]

Whats the difference between the Black, Red, and Orange admin colors?

Well, of those, only Black is admin-level. Red is 'super' mod, and Orange is section-specific mod.

[woundingchaney]

All right, I feel I have to post here.

I know my behaviour wasn't the best ever lately, and I have to say I have been harsh to two members here. I apologise for possible misunderstandings that led me to being overly harsh in particular moments.

woundingchaney, you of course are one of the two I'm talking about here; I want you to accept my apologies if you think I've been extremely harsh with you sometimes lately; you're probably going to say I have, and I'm probably going to say I haven't, but let's leave it at that.

I think I don't need to elaborate on the nature of the replies to the other member I'm talking about: it's not like he's the most loved guy around, so he reaps what he sows.

--------------------------------------------

EDIT: Big misunderstanding here.

--------------------------------------------

It is a moderator's duty to keep everything under control. Many of us here feel that the individual doesn't bother to behave correctly in the least and everything just keeps getting worse when it should be the contrary.

Anyway, once again, I do apologise for some recent childish posts of mine, and I want to let you all know that I want to contribute to make this forum interesting and more mature, and encourage clever people to come here to post their reasonable (seriously) opinions and contributions. Everyone has the right to be entitled to their own opinion and I respect that. I expect the same from everyone else towards me. I know nobody is perfect (and I don't expect that from anyone), but I'll make my best to not to be the opposite to perfect either.


There really is no reason to apologize to me man dont worry about it. Sure we disagree often but thats just what it amounts to, nothing but a disagreement (hey afterall sometimes your right, like when I posted comparison picks of MGS4 that had a bad feed on one of them that I didnt realize. :)).

Im not completely sure what is going on around here or whats up with this thread but I never thought you owed me an apology.

Glad to be mentioned so often I think and I truly appreciate the gracious statements but maybe someone could PM me a link to this calamity that JVD supposedly started or just what caused this large rift in the forum.

Somebody wanna clue me in on whats going on here??

[xbdestroya]

Applefiend I appreciate where you're coming from - there is a cabal of individuals out there trying to push that agenda - but I don't think JVD was a part of any conspiracy; rather those were honestly just his own feelings on the matter.

With new guidelines, hopefully it will be easy enough to address most forms of agitating behaviour.

@Wounding: This thread stems from the Blu-ray diodes thread, which won't give you a good idea of what triggered it, as it has roughly ~40 posts deleted in it right now.

[woundingchaney]

TY XBD maybe its better off that I dont know :angel:

but any ways what color is the TOP TECH CREW



LOL

[OmniCloud]

Man...u guys need to start letting me know when a "text" fight breaks out. I'm always missing the freakin ACTION! LoL...It seems like it got outta control tho and was pissing a lot of people off so I'm glad it's over. I'm still pretty new here but this is by far some of the best gaming discussion across the web. Go to Gamespot, or IGN forums and it's like everyone there is 12 years old and under. I know I don't want this type of discussion to go anywhere soon-so I'll try my best to make respectable post in all areas of discussions. Really tho-even tho I'm still a Sony fanboy (cuz I've spent most of my gaming with playstation consoles) this forum has made me realize that there's nothing wrong with being a fanboy. Being an idiot is the problem! Not buying a game that u know is Awesome, and the reviews are criticially approved-yet u don't buy because your sticking to your console is stupid! Even with every game out there your still gonna have a preference. And making that preference known in a respectable way is what this forum is all about. Shoutout to Wounding Chaney, Cliffbo, Z, XB, hell everyone1-ur a big part of why I kept coming back to this place...Cheers MATES:cheers:

[Applefiend]

Yeah, you just got to be well behaved and polite, that's the problem. Not what you think but how you express it. Guys in the PS3 forum are there because they like PS3, ditto for 360 or Wii. Saying stuff just to hack people off is pretty low.

Today I saw Frogger for 360 XBLA was out, grumbled "Oh whoopy **** finally that Major Nelson twat has taken time out trash talking PS3 to do some real work and upload a new game to XBLA". Downloaded it, thought: "Jesus the 360 dpad is crap, I can't even play frogger on it", considered buying it, thought "You want 7 dollars for ****ing frogger, go **** yourself". Saw the demo quit after one level, thought "Thanks for wasting my time". Grumbled about the tiny amount of space left on my 360 drive,wished it had 60GB like a PS3, thought about selling my 360 again... Then thought... "I'll tell the guys on the 360 forum about it, they get excited about ***** like this"

It condensed down to:

"Hey guys, frogger is out on XB Live Arcade, download it now! I really like frogger"

Gotta be polite! In enemy territory, can't act the fool, gotta have some manners!

Go back to playing Frogger then....

On my GP2X. :)

[xbdestroya]

Well, I *do* hope we can toss this idea of 'enemies' out altogether, but yes good condensation there Applefiend. :smoke:

By the way, by owning a 360, you really shouldn't view yourself as being on one side of the fence or the other; it just comes down to personal preference.

EDIT: Applefiend I deleted your post below because, well I think we're already starting too much to go into the corporate side of things rather than keeping it poster-focused. But your opinion on Microsoft is duly noted. :)

[Domination]

OK, first of all, this is my first time viewing this thread. I hadn't noticed it until today.

I have PM'd JVD numerious times already. I'm not sure whether his suspension took place before or after I first started PMing him, but I have explained the situation to him from what I thought may have been the case, which he still doesn't understand nor agree with. The most surprising part is the majority of points brought up on the first page by a few members (maybe even others,) if not the complete bit, was exactly what I was trying to have him understand about his behavior here. Don't get me wrong, I think sometimes he can bring up some good points, but they are only far and very few the majority of his time.

Sadly, the situation has just recently become weary to me as well.

[Infernal]

OK, first of all, this is my first time viewing this thread. I hadn't noticed it until today.
It only began today. :angel:

[Nameless]

Honestly, I think everyone is taking things too seriously...
Come on we are talking about gaming consoles, technology & entertainment. We are not discussing politics, religion, race or other volatile subjects of greater importance... Don't get me wrong I understand this forum is a community and we visit the forum to discuss the PS3 with other fans, but let's not lose sight of reality...

I never had a problem with JVD and he usually objected to my post and tried to debate issues, but I quickly realized it was worthless to debate with JVD, because he usually refused to respect others opinions. I just usually ignored the dumb post and offered encouragement the few times he made logical statements. After reviewing this thread and seeing the amount of frustration and anger JVD caused on the forums I guess his banning was for the best, but honestly was his posting that bad... I think not, but perhaps I'm wrong. Peace

[Domination]

Ignoring also does nothing for those who are looking at joining our forums. If someone leaves a forum and comes here in search of greener pastures, and sees posts like his all over the place, what kind of image does that make for PSInext?

As you say XBD... "Respect to all those who debate their positions using facts and reason rather than rumor and passion."

Actually, it is worsen far beyond even that. It can also lead to false information, rumors and such since you may have answers that others may not, yet you aren't able to see misleading infor being posted, therefore making you unable to respond. So when a guest does stop by insearch of information.... Well, you get the picture.

[pari]

We are different people from different backgrounds but come together for a common interest we share which is about PS3. There are no system which is perfect and no one is either. Everyone here is learning something new and I am definitely learning something new. Nothing being taken for granted has stroked my thought process and increased my curiosity to expand my horizon in the processor design.

I believe there should be humility regard less whatever one's position is. Yes I have argued with JVD, then it cool down. Then after sometime I have posted back and forth without questioning his sanity or anything. But there is a limit to which one would tolerate. Insulting a person without knowning the person is totally bad. I have never said what I do for my work nor where I work which I believe is immaterial to this forum. But that does not mean someone can insult me on my work experience without even having any idea. Yes I do make mistakes aware of it and accept it. Insulting me on my day today stuff is totally incorrect.

It is easy to be an arm chair expert, and everybody is an armchair expert in one or another field without any real world experience. I am an armchair expert in the field of opensource software. Now would it make sense for me to argue with Bruce Perens or Raymond and insult them with childish remark? Definitely not. I believe humility is best thing to have and its very difficult to achieve and I am struggling to achieve it.

I might be an armchair expert but I am a real world experience person in terms of microprocessor design, both in backend design and digital circuit design. Does that give me an instant passport to insult every wrong post in this forum? I do not think so and nor have I insulted somebody for their lack of knowledge in the digital circuit design.

In digital circuit design what is taught in the class room and written in the textbook are not close to the real world stuff. I do not know about Analog/RF circuit design, but in digital circuit design (Adder, L1 Cache, L2 Cache, Register File,...) there is a sea of difference from academic to real world. Why I am saying this is, there are lots of information about processor and process technology, but none of the informations are complete. Pretending to be a real expert based on information out there without any real world experience is not correct. So acting as one and insulting is totally wrong. This is from my observation, right or wrong I do not know.

XBD, Standarsh: Yes I am guilty too. It takes two to tango, two to fight and two to argue. So instead of blaming the other person, I need to look at myself first. If have done that, then there would not have been any problem. So I accept my part.

[Viper]

Really tho-even tho I'm still a Sony fanboy (cuz I've spent most of my gaming with playstation consoles)
You're no fanboy (regardless of console exclusivitey). You're a fan. Fan-boys are ignorant fans that argue blindly with opinion in the absence of facts, logic and reason.

It's one of the things that have truly stunned me most about this board was the almost complete lack of real fanboys, just fans.

Though fans can spout fanboy like rants when provoked with enough irritating events and that is what we've experienced lately.

You guys may want your forums back, but I want my fans back and so I did what had to be done to limit the provocation that was relagating otherwise quiet and peaceful fans into hardcore pissed off fanboys.

[Domination]

You're no fanboy (regardless of console exclusivitey). You're a fan. Fan-boys are ignorant fans that argue blindly with opinion in the absence of facts, logic and reason.

It's one of the things that have truly stunned me most about this board was the almost complete lack of real fanboys, just fans.

Though fans can spout fanboy like rants when provoked with enough irritating events and that is what we've experienced lately.

You guys may want your forums back, but I want my fans back and so I did what had to be done to limit the provocation that was relagating otherwise quiet and peaceful fans into hardcore pissed off fanboys.

I totally agree, Viper.

"This also goes back to what I explained before about fanboys making fanboys. I'm not saying everyone else is innocent except for you, but if you aren't willing to listen to others or gather the proper information before accusing everyone else of lying (Sony's online server,) anything you present later on will be immediately disregarded by those same people. So the point is don't expect to be heard if you refuse to hear what others have to say."

[Viano]

Well, of those, only Black is admin-level. Red is 'super' mod, and Orange is section-specific mod.

everyone's black!!

well sony fan + sony stocks make you a fan boy/girl lOL

[Delirious]

What? I obviously missed something big today. From the sounds of it, Im glad I did. I hate console wars, they always end up hurting a forum rather than helping it.

[Smokey]

this is what this forum is about, seeing the "problem" & talking & solving it :)

[Coded-Dude]

It's one of the things that have truly stunned me most about this board was the almost complete lack of real fanboys, just fans.
:-*

[Sephiroth_VII]

Okay, everyone who didn't ignore JVD has a share of the blame, I agree with that. That includes me, of course, though I think I've been much less invloved than most of the guys. But, if it wasn't for JVD constantly stating his opinions as the true meaning of life, none of us would get so angry. Also, I know that this has been said before in this thread, but the ignore system is totally useless, when used against a guy such as JVD, since he posts way too much to ignore. Unless everyone agrees to ignore the person, it just doesn't work.

Now, a ruleset. Personally, I'm all for the current very free rules that E-mpire is using. However, it seems to be neccesary to implement more strict rules, to counter incidents such as this. With the PS3 launch coming up, it's doubtless that we'll soon receive more people like JVD, especially when rumours about the DVD's and other media E-mpire will be manufacturing from now on, starts to really spread, which I think will happen pretty soon. I just pray that we won't end up like IGN...
What about using the old PSinsider rules? They seemed very fair to me at the time.

Well, for now, let's see what'll happen now that JVD isn't here. I expect that it'll cool down now, though of course, these issues still has to be addressed. If we get this reaction everytime someone like JVD joins the forum, it won't be a nice place to post anymore.

[VG Aficionado]

We are guilty for behaving incorrectly, jvd is guilty for intentionally posting tons and tons of crap and the mods are guilty (:look:) for allowing him to post more garbage than anyone should have ever beared in this forum.

[Infernal]

We are guilty for behaving incorrectly, jvd is guilty for posting tons and tons of crap and the mods are guilty (:look:) for allowing him to post more garbage than anyone should have ever beared in this forum.
And gods guilty for creating us, and the internet is guilty for allowing such forums to exist. :clapping:

[Coded-Dude]

me i don't mind the "tons and tons of crap," in I still talk to JVD, except insted of being in the PS forums we are in the MS forums. Some of what he says is worth debating, the other stuff is jsut humerous. Though I like to debate.......

[VG Aficionado]

Whatever. A guy that considers himself "the voice of reason" and scorns everyone else periodically whenever they (reasonably or not) disagree with him does not deserve my respect*, even if he doesn't behave like that under different circumstances.

* - I do not mean by this that I have the right to attack the guy and expect approval from everyone else.

My point being that we'd regret giving jvd yet another opportunity in this forum. I think it would be like dropping a time bomb, and after some agitation for a little while... boom! History repeats itself!

All right, all right, no more jvd from me. I think I've made myself clear.

[RavenFox]

I saw the thread but I dont think I ever went in. Anyway you guys are great bunch and its a pleasure to post here.
I knew a jvd at B3D is it the same individual? He was very pro xbox. Anyway glad to see things have been handled so lets get back to posting eh. :-)

[jaxmkii]

everyone's black!!

well sony fan + sony stocks make you a fan boy/girl lOL

i purchaced 12k of sony stock... im not a fanboy am I?

i bought it cause i see the possiblity of huge gains but the risk is there that this (BR/PS3) could hurt sony.

i see it no differant than my GM stock or RSSI stock

just that i happen to be a fan of the stuff they make:angelgrin

[EvilTaru]

Actually, it is worsen far beyond even that. It can also lead to false information, rumors and such since you may have answers that others may not, yet you aren't able to see misleading infor being posted, therefore making you unable to respond. So when a guest does stop by insearch of information.... Well, you get the picture.

To be honest, when I come by the forum and I see negative threads spreading misinformation, I don't even bother posting anymore, I just move on the next board on my list, just like I hardly post on the IGNPS3GB. I come here because someone else recommended this place to me, and I enjoyed my time here and thought things were great in the beginning but now the fun is almost all gone, I do nothing but lurk here now and then.

What pisses me off more is how someone can come in here, bash the PS3 in every thread he makes, call everybody else a troll, and then everybody is told they're wrong because the guy is "misunderstood" and everybody has to be nice to him, sorry but I just don't buy it, that's just a big smurf-U to the entire community in defense of someone who's not worth defending.

[Viper]

OK. 2 things.

1. You can help by reporting bad posters in a few different manners. Use the Report Bad Post feature (the red flag next the the rep button in the top right corner fo every post), PM a mod/smod/admin or use the Contact Us link at the bottom of every page (lord knows the spammers use the hell out of it).

1. He's gone. Back to discussing PS3.

[Viano]

i was kidding ;P

[Applefiend]

It's you know, a shame, I see it all the time, forums going to hell because of one bad poster with an agenda, and the mods are too nice to string him up by the gonads. Then the mods go "That's it, I'm quitting!". You know, the primary purpose of this place is a place to hang with our PS3 homies. If you ain't a PS3 homie, there are other forums...

Indeed, back to discussing PS3...

[woundingchaney]

What really worrys me is are we going to ban every person that doesnt agree with forum "truth". JVD represents a lot of poster out there that arent hardcore Sony fans, but are very interested in gaming and the progress of the industry. I dont think banning is the anwer, we all want the forum to grow and doing so means that quite often we are going to have to accept differing opinions and different preferences. Nearly everytime JVD made a statement half the forum ravenously attacked him - well of course he became defensive and hostile I would too under the situation as would anyone here. Its a drastic oversimplification to say that the problem originates from one man, when in reality its a lack of respect from many sides of the situation, I am by no means trying to defend JVD (as he was very standoffish and rude at times) but to simply point the finger isnt valid at all.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Well, we did attack JVD, there's no doubt about that. But we didn't do it because of his choice in gaming, we did it because of him behaveing like an omni potent entity, who knew everything about the industry, the games and the hardware. This has been said many times before. We don't attack you, just because you like Xbox more than PS. That's because you make constructive and informative posts, which JVD didn't, IMHO.

Not to mention him repeatedly lying about attending E3.

[RzrWire]

Seeing as how there has been virtually no real good/interesting PS3 news for quite a while I haven't been around much if at all. I'm just kind of curious as to when the shit exactly hit the fan? I know when things get really slow around here stuff like this happens so I assume this was an on going problem that just got worse and worse.

[Sephiroth_VII]

You assume correctly. I sure hope that TGS will be an eyeopener. I hope that whatever they announce, it'll get people positive about PS3 again. I'm tired of hearing negative BS.

[EvilTaru]

What really worrys me is are we going to ban every person that doesnt agree with forum "truth". JVD represents a lot of poster out there that arent hardcore Sony fans, but are very interested in gaming and the progress of the industry. I dont think banning is the anwer, we all want the forum to grow and doing so means that quite often we are going to have to accept differing opinions and different preferences. Nearly everytime JVD made a statement half the forum ravenously attacked him - well of course he became defensive and hostile I would too under the situation as would anyone here. Its a drastic oversimplification to say that the problem originates from one man, when in reality its a lack of respect from many sides of the situation, I am by no means trying to defend JVD (as he was very standoffish and rude at times) but to simply point the finger isnt valid at all.

Let's get this straight.

First of all there is a huge difference between not being a "hardcore" Sony fan (you don't need to be a "hardcore" Sony fan NOT to attack Sony and the PS3 in every single thread you make, and you don't need to be a "hardcore" Sony fan to purchase a PS3 and play its games) and being a genuinely disruptive influence on the board (someone who can't back up his points when being challenged, calls everybody else a troll). There's really no real reason to post here if you're not interested in playing the PS3 and its games at all (because that's what JVD was, someone who genuinely hates on the PS3 and its games), I don't think you're like JVD, and I sure as hell hope you don't become like JVD.

And it's NOT the forum's responsibility for someone being disruptive and other people having to put up with it, JVD does NOT have a "right" to be here pissing the majority of posters off on a regular basis like he did, no one does, and he does NOT have any business whatsoever being "defensive" and downright hostile whenever he's challenged. If someone is having a bad day, guess what? Take a day off the forum, don't take it out on others, it's not the responsibility of the forum to put up with you or anyone else if you're having a bad day or just feeling emotional over something.

If you're worried the same thing (banning) might happen to you, it won't if you don't behave like JVD, don't try to defend this kind of behavior because there's absolutely no justification for it, and JVD was warned before he was ever banned. To suggest the forum can't ban anyone because you're worried that people will be banned just for having a different opinion on something, that's not going to happen, and that's not what happened to JVD AT ALL, so you really shouldn't be so concerned.

[yoshaw]

Alright guys, calm down now. No need to be frustrated or aggressive over something that has been resolved.

EvilTaru,
The real issue at hand (now) is the implification of some sort of a guideline. I'm sure wounding was only trying to convey what really needs highlighting in these new rules. It's quite pleasing actually because If you read both posts carefully, you'll find that the gist of what you said back to wounding is quite exactly the same he wanted :)

So cheer up mates.

And let us not go into heated discussions over things that are mentioned alongwith JVD. Xb has made this very clear that he wants some proper guidelines set up for PSINext. There have been some good propositions by a few members. I'm sure we can add to them too. So lets do that instead.

[VG Aficionado]

What about a rule about never posting "news" or "articles" from the following sources:

- The Inquirer
- Spong
- GameSHOUT
- Kotaku
- Jostiq
- Engadget
- pro-g.co.uk
- add sensationalist and / or intentionally misinforming site here

No, seriously :cowboy:

[Sephiroth_VII]

I second that. Engadget/Joystiq aren't that bad though.

[VG Aficionado]

Maybe not as bad as the other ones, but they never hide their negative feelings towards Sony or the PlayStation brand. Every time I read Sony related news from them they have to say something bad. Anyway, the worst thing about them is that they're not pro in the least, so...

[EvilTaru]

What about a rule about never posting "news" or "articles" from the following sources:

- The Inquirer
- Spong
- GameSHOUT
- Kotaku
- Jostiq
- Engadget
- pro-g.co.uk
- add sensationalist and / or intentionally misinforming site here

No, seriously :cowboy:

I agree. Just because someone throws it out there doesn't make it "news" worth posting.

[EvilTaru]

Alright guys, calm down now. No need to be frustrated or aggressive over something that has been resolved.

EvilTaru,
The real issue at hand (now) is the implification of some sort of a guideline. I'm sure wounding was only trying to convey what really needs highlighting in these new rules. It's quite pleasing actually because If you read both posts carefully, you'll find that the gist of what you said back to wounding is quite exactly the same he wanted :)

So cheer up mates.

And let us not go into heated discussions over things that are mentioned alongwith JVD. Xb has made this very clear that he wants some proper guidelines set up for PSINext. There have been some good propositions by a few members. I'm sure we can add to them too. So lets do that instead.

I am calm, and no offense, disagreeing with someone should not be interpreted as being "frustrated" or "aggressive".

Wounding was, and still probably is, against the banning of JVD, something which I have advocated all along (probably to a more severe degree), it's pretty obvious we do not want the same thing. And to be honest I do NOT agree with the rationale he has provided against the board having the ability to ban disruptive individuals, because I don't think it's about "what if one day, I don't follow the rules? I don't to be banned so I advocate no banning at all", it's like abolishing prison sentences because one is worried about going to jail if he breaks the law one day, my answer to such concern would be, "don't break the law".

The banning was administered after careful consideration (something I thought was an eventuality), I'm glad it was done.

And yes, banning CAN be abused, but it doesn't mean it WILL be, we just need good implementation, meaning stable and grounded moderators, and that's a matter of proper moderator selection.

And just because there's a possibility for the abuse of that measure shouldn't mean the forum should not be empowered to deal with totally disruptive individuals because no individual has any right to deliberately subject everyone else on the board to put up with his disruptive antics, especially when it involves outright console-hating on the very board dedicated to said console, to defend such behavior is simply against common sense.

It doesn't mean everyone needs to think of the console as the best thing ever, but if one hates the PS3 and won't get one anytime soon, one really shouldn't be here, this should not be a forum where people come in just to say how much they hate the console (or Sony for that matter) which they have no intention of ever owning or playing, to allow such people to troll on the board is absolutely the worst way of trying to grow the community because you lose more dedicated posters who are genuinely interested in the console than you'll ever gain people who are just coming to the board to incessantly seek arguments with people.

Obviously there needs to be things like "terms of service" or "code of conduct" and offenses like trolling should be included so the board members can be protected from such disruptions, we should NOT be forced to put up with things like this for so long. Ultimately it's the well-being of the community that should be held at a higher priority than what someone thinks he's entitled to do on the board.

[cliffbo]

I am calm, and no offense, disagreeing with someone should not be interpreted as being "frustrated" or "aggressive".

Wounding was, and still probably is, against the banning of JVD, something which I have advocated all along (probably to a more severe degree), it's pretty obvious we do not want the same thing. And to be honest I do NOT agree with the rationale he has provided against the board having the ability to ban disruptive individuals, because I don't think it's about "what if one day, I don't follow the rules? I don't to be banned so I advocate no banning at all", it's like abolishing prison sentences because one is worried about going to jail if he breaks the law one day, my answer to such concern would be, "don't break the law".

The banning was administered after careful consideration (something I thought was an eventuality), I'm glad it was done.

And yes, banning CAN be abused, but it doesn't mean it WILL be, we just need good implementation, meaning stable and grounded moderators, and that's a matter of proper moderator selection.

And just because there's a possibility for the abuse of that measure shouldn't mean the forum should not be empowered to deal with totally disruptive individuals because no individual has any right to deliberately subject everyone else on the board to put up with his disruptive antics, especially when it involves outright console-hating on the very board dedicated to said console, to defend such behavior is simply against common sense.

It doesn't mean everyone needs to think of the console as the best thing ever, but if one hates the PS3 and won't get one anytime soon, one really shouldn't be here, this should not be a forum where people come in just to say how much they hate the console (or Sony for that matter) which they have no intention of ever owning or playing, to allow such people to troll on the board is absolutely the worst way of trying to grow the community because you lose more dedicated posters who are genuinely interested in the console than you'll ever gain people who are just coming to the board to incessantly seek arguments with people.

Obviously there needs to be things like "terms of service" or "code of conduct" and offenses like trolling should be included so the board members can be protected from such disruptions, we should NOT be forced to put up with things like this for so long. Ultimately it's the well-being of the community that should be held at a higher priority than what someone thinks he's entitled to do on the board.

i agree with every word of this. all i ask for is that next time could the mods please take swifter action. the whole JVD incident brought this forum to its knees for weeks and even made me consider not bothering to post. some may say that was a good thing lol. :)

[frosty]

don't sweat it guys. it's over. e-mpire has learned a lesson from those involved, and not banning the user was the appropriate way to handle it. This is because whether you want to admit it or not, jvd is a decent poster in other areas of the forums (though too quick to a standoff). He has been removed from here, and now he can post pro 360 or wii threads until his fingertips bleed. none of us have to deal with it anymore. To say he should be banned is the same to say you should be banned. Although he was the firestarter, we were the fuel. And we kept pouring it on in gallons. We stooped to that level, and look what it brought us to! from now on, just start PM'ing all mods and admins until something gets done. After seeing how much trouble this incident caused, I don't see any mod around here hesitating to take action.

[yoshaw]

don't sweat it guys. it's over. e-mpire has learned a lesson from those involved, and not banning the user was the appropriate way to handle it. This is because whether you want to admit it or not, jvd is a decent poster in other areas of the forums (though too quick to a standoff). He has been removed from here, and now he can post pro 360 or wii threads until his fingertips bleed. none of us have to deal with it anymore. To say he should be banned is the same to say you should be banned. Although he was the firestarter, we were the fuel. And we kept pouring it on in gallons. We stooped to that level, and look what it brought us to! from now on, just start PM'ing all mods and admins until something gets done. After seeing how much trouble this incident caused, I don't see any mod around here hesitating to take action.

Quoted for truth!

:pope:

[xbdestroya]

What about a rule about never posting "news" or "articles" from the following sources:

- The Inquirer
- Spong
- GameSHOUT
- Kotaku
- Jostiq
- Engadget
- pro-g.co.uk
- add sensationalist and / or intentionally misinforming site here

No, seriously :cowboy:

News is news. If the forum isn't able to handle it's digestion, well then the problem lies elsewhere. Do we add something to the list everytime someone publishes anti-PS3 FUD?

I think most of us agree that we're here to discuss all aspects of PS3, and if an article is BS, let it be vetted and proven as such. If it's not BS, isn't that something we should be aware of?

Engadget... what's wrong with Engadget?

No one on this site dislikes Charlie D from the Inquirer more than me, because me and him have traded jabs with each other on a personal level... but even I'll post an article of his if I feel like it warrants discussion, y'know? It doesn't even matter if it's total BS or not - it's the discussion that can arise from the topic that has value, not the topic itself.

That's not to say I think it's cool to post every single article on PS3 out there; I always recommend checking for duplicate threads, using personal restraint to keep from posting obvious nonsense, and trying to make sure threads are phrased such that they encourage discussion. It's just a reality though that sometimes people ignore these common sense rules; the mods lock bogus threads all the time, but we can't go banning members everytime they post a thread like that. I mean, everyone does that at some point or another.

If people need to travel to other forums to learn what 'negative' vibes are out there with regard to the PS3, then frankly this place isn't doing it's job as a forum for PS3 discussion. It's the discussion that makes the place worth visiting, not the topics. :smoke:

Yes, a loose code of rules in the works though.

[OmniCloud]

Can JVD ever come back? Sometimes it's fun debating and arguing. Cuz in the end-you realize ur getting upset about a FREAKIN VIDEO-GAME and I usually get a good laugh outta it afterwards. I mean, don't get me wrong videogames and music are my hobbies and any1 saying videogames are any less of a form of entertainment than movies or books I'll defend to the death! But seriously, it's still videogames. Most gamers pick up all systems anyway it's just a matter of what console they get first and put the most money into. This is a GAMING DISCUSSION! If everyone remembers that, I think a lot of the squabbles and issues will be resolved.

[woundingchaney]

Let's get this straight.

First of all there is a huge difference between not being a "hardcore" Sony fan (you don't need to be a "hardcore" Sony fan NOT to attack Sony and the PS3 in every single thread you make, and you don't need to be a "hardcore" Sony fan to purchase a PS3 and play its games) and being a genuinely disruptive influence on the board (someone who can't back up his points when being challenged, calls everybody else a troll). There's really no real reason to post here if you're not interested in playing the PS3 and its games at all (because that's what JVD was, someone who genuinely hates on the PS3 and its games), I don't think you're like JVD, and I sure as hell hope you don't become like JVD.

And it's NOT the forum's responsibility for someone being disruptive and other people having to put up with it, JVD does NOT have a "right" to be here pissing the majority of posters off on a regular basis like he did, no one does, and he does NOT have any business whatsoever being "defensive" and downright hostile whenever he's challenged. If someone is having a bad day, guess what? Take a day off the forum, don't take it out on others, it's not the responsibility of the forum to put up with you or anyone else if you're having a bad day or just feeling emotional over something.

If you're worried the same thing (banning) might happen to you, it won't if you don't behave like JVD, don't try to defend this kind of behavior because there's absolutely no justification for it, and JVD was warned before he was ever banned. To suggest the forum can't ban anyone because you're worried that people will be banned just for having a different opinion on something, that's not going to happen, and that's not what happened to JVD AT ALL, so you really shouldn't be so concerned.


I can assure you that I am still against the banning of JVD or anyone else under these circumstances.

[stanDarsh]

JVD was never banned, just had his posting privileges removed from Playstation forums for now.

[woundingchaney]

JVD was never banned, just had his posting privileges removed from Playstation forums for now.
thank you for the clarification

[lips]

Ahh... Is this new policy the reason my posts are being deleted? Without trying to take this topic off its rails and place it on a new track, are posts being deleted for not following topic; or possibly more likely content moderatoring?

[Viper]

I checked and you've had one post deleted from a topic that had many deleted to keep it from becoming a flame fest. We don't delete posts very often and even still its only soft deleted (meaning it can be seen by mods and undeleted at any time).

[VG Aficionado]

I think most of us agree that we're here to discuss all aspects of PS3, and if an article is BS, let it be vetted and proven as such. If it's not BS, isn't that something we should be aware of?That's exactly what I meant, even though I may have been too subtle and unclear. When I wrote "news" and "articles", I meant that anyone could post them and say: "C'mon, let's debunk this piece of crap.", instead of posting it as truly factual news.

Engadget... what's wrong with Engadget?This is just the tip of the iceberg (http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/20/are-the-playstation-3-delays-really-over/), and actually, this is one of their less inflammatory posts lately. The FUD, the ceaseless posts based on rumours and treated like facts, the constant offensive jokes and underestimation when talking about anything Sony, and more specifically PS3, is just shameless. Not that I'd expect everyone to post news that would favour Sony and their products, but I certainly don't want to read this garbage all the time.

[xbdestroya]

Ah ha... well that explains a lot.

BTW, CoreytheGent - the contributor mentioned in that article - is a TXB member, so a deliberate PS3 smear campaign on the part of him and others like him is probably where Engadget gets a lot of that anti-PS3 news from.