Are you still confident in PS3 titles coming anywhere close to what devs promised?

[Undercover Cop]

Cause I'm not. yes I know they have target renders but they seem to be more for hyping us into a false belief as opposed to any standard they are actually aiming at. Only folks who have done as expected is Ninja Theory. Give them a round of applause for their hard work.

As for everyone else like Resident Evil 5, Final Fantasy XIII, and even MGS4, I'm losing hope. Every other minute I hear folk telling me the 360 and PS3 are extremely comparable to make the $100-$200 dollar difference ridiculous, and every other minute they seem to be proven right. :(

Hope TGS is a real banger... they need it...

[liver_kick]

Zzzzz... your schtick, is tired.

[Carlos]

Yes, I am confident, it will evolve in time.

[yoshaw]

I take the OP guy is on an agenda mission. Plenty of threads where disappointment is getting discussed. Why do we need another one all of a sudden?

*LOCK*

[dnpmakkah]

Well lets look at the list of Target Renders from 2005

Hevenly Sword (looks better than Render IMO)
Resistance (looks better than Render IMO)
Killzone 3 (Have not seen gameplay so I can't say)
Devil May Cry 4 (Doesn't look like Render as of yet)
Resident Evil 5 (Have not seen gameplay so I can't say)
Metal Gear Solid (MGS always looks good so no issues here)
Warhawk (looks better than Render IMO)

So...
4 of 7 look impressive and IMO surpass their targets
2 of 7 we have not even seen yet
1 of 7 doesn't live up to the hype

Percentage wise I'm happy. Some games look better than others. That is due to some developers not being as talented as others and some games might not look "real" due to its artistic syle. Basically it hasn't launched and the games already look good. I'm sure things will only get better.

[Nameless]

^
dnp, Good post & welcome to the forum!

Undercover Cop seems to only post negative thoughts regarding the PS3.
What's the point of being part of a PS3 forum if you have nothing positive to say and obviously do not plan on purchasing the console?

I'm looking forward to TGS, because I predict most exclusive titles will meet gamer's expectations based on 2005 E3 footage... I'm not expecting anything mind blowing from multiplatform titles, because I already own a 360, but all the PS3 only consumers will be blown away by all titles IMO. Peace

[Beenie Man]

He used the delay as a way to start off his negative agenda, so he is basically a troll.

[Siraris]

Go watch the new HD MGS4 trailer. It's the most beautiful game I've ever seen, and looks substantially better than at E3.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

can we lock the thread then?

[TEEDA]

Without forgetting than most of those titles are " first generation PS3 games " and some look really promising such as

Heavenly Sword
Final Fantasy XIII
Stranglehold
DMC 4 can upgrade
Motorstorm can be achievable
Fight Night 3 looks promising
MGS 4 is the top
Naughty Dog project looks promising.

what's more ?

and there are more to come

[saxdawg00]

Sony has never lacked on the games front, even the most hardcore Wii60 fanboy can't argue that so why is the opening poster even suggesting otherwise? Maybe he does have an agenda....

[Viper]

If that new Lair pic is the real deal, then no. It went from class to ass.

[ddaryl]

Resitance ended this debate IMO

[Nameless]

If that new Lair pic is the real deal, then no. It went from class to ass.
LMAO!!!

It went from a launch window hero to a PS3 zero...

[Siraris]

Has anyone here watched the new MGS4 trailer from IGN in HD? Seriously, this will answer all your questions.

[Nameless]

Has anyone here watched the new MGS4 trailer from IGN in HD? Seriously, this will answer all your questions.
Team Kojima is amazing look what they did with the PS2...
Too bad they are not part of Sony's first party dev team, because every developer could use their input...

When you think of next-gen, MGS4 is what comes to mind! :stirpot:

[agentorange]

Lair-failed
Motorstorm-failed
Eight days-?
killzone 2-?

[frosty]

agentorange-failed

[agentorange]

hehehe!!! hey frankly speaking look at the new pics of lair compared to the pics in the pass. Here is the link for the old topic and debate about lair

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=60437&page=1

There are some pics comparison there justs look for the right page. Flashback on the debate on how alot of you hated me but in the end i was right. Last year its also the same when I said Killzone 2 was realtime and in the end alot of you have shut up after Guerilia finally admited it is CGI.

[VG Aficionado]

Flashback on the debate on how alot of you hated me but in the end i was right.We don't hate you. We just think you're a damn idiot. And you are because you are unable to understand it.

[agentorange]

Okay look at the pics on the E3 video and see how different it is.

[Pistolero]

Some people manage to judge a very complex piece of hardawre on the basis of unofficial (fugly) screenshots of work in progress games that belong to the first generation. Not even on movies. So, according to this camp, Street Fighter EX (the one that was on the launch of the PS2) is a good way to measure the power of the PS2 !

[Pistolero]

Okay look at the pics on the E3 video and see how different it is.

Ok. So wait till WE SEE the next VIDEO of the game...

[overclocked]

To the thread question= YES.

[Maltroph]

wheres the two lair screens? why would they fail?

[Applefiend]

Close to obviously non in game CG adverts? Noooo... Close to what the actually promised, sure.

But being a graphics whore is so tiresome...

In general nobody knows **** about the next generation. Look back to this generation, think about Gamecube, I bet people were saying: "Oh yeah, it'll have all the best platformers, bet Rare will bring out a Banjo Kazooie sequel, yadda yadda".

Never know how things will turn out.

[Undercover Cop]

I came back to this thread, when I saw the Lair pics.

I'm losing hope. TGS better be a showstopper.

[yoshaw]

You had hope? No shit!

[Undercover Cop]

You had hope? No shit!
Indeed. Please check my previous posts.

In fact before you claim you can't, here are links:
http://forums.e-mpire.com/search.php?searchid=130793&pp=25&page=4
http://forums.e-mpire.com/search.php?searchid=130793&pp=25&page=3
http://forums.e-mpire.com/search.php?searchid=130793&pp=25&page=2
http://forums.e-mpire.com/search.php?searchid=130793&pp=25&page=1

[yoshaw]

Your hopes are all over the forum.

[cpiasminc]

I'm still lost where anybody gets the idea that things were actually promised by anybody. AFAICT, the only promises ever put out there are the things forum and press idiots assumed to be promises. The vast majority of so-called "target renders" were deemed to be targets by brainless morons scattered about through the net, and not by anybody who actually had some involvement in the matter.

It's because of such nonsense that people like agentorange even exist.

[frosty]

^QFT, QFT, QFT, QF fucking T. You couldn't have put it any better CPI. Guys, listen to what he has to say. He's a game developer, working on next gen games. He has more insight into the industry than you ever will most likley.

Man it's nice to have folks like him around the forums! +rep

[VG Aficionado]

The vast majority of so-called "target renders" were deemed to be targets by brainless morons scattered about through the net, and not by anybody who actually had some involvement in the matter.

It's because of such nonsense that people like agentorange even exist.

QFT!!!

http://pulp.orangephotography.com/blog/archives/squeeze.jpg

[yoshaw]

^QFT, QFT, QFT, QF fucking T. You couldn't have put it any better CPI. Guys, listen to what he has to say. He's a game developer, working on next gen games. He has more insight into the industry than you ever will most likley.

LOL, QFT

[frosty]

http://www.baysidevideoproductions.com/killzone.jpg

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I'm still lost where anybody gets the idea that things were actually promised by anybody. AFAICT, the only promises ever put out there are the things forum and press idiots assumed to be promises. The vast majority of so-called "target renders" were deemed to be targets by brainless morons scattered about through the net, and not by anybody who actually had some involvement in the matter.

It's because of such nonsense that people like agentorange even exist.

Quoted, bolded, and motherfucking turquoised for truth!

----------
Edit: That guy in the killzone pic, in the background operating the vehicle cannon looks terrified.

[section]

I don't know what for instance Kojima Productions have promised but what they've shown already looks so amazing I don't know what to expect anymore from any developer :)

[VG Aficionado]

Edit: That guy in the killzone pic, in the background operating the vehicle cannon looks terrified.He just looks to me like he's thinking: "Feel the taste of my metallic penis, you Helghast bastards!!!"

[CrumCon]

To me, MGS4 already beats Killzone 2 trailers, both animation and visual presentation.
To me, animation really is ONE of the biggest key in next-gen standard. It really present what next-gen is about.

Killzone 2 trailers envirenment isnt that gorgeous, many next-gen titles/in working titles, already come close to it and SOME already exceed it.

The key in that trailer is the animation. just like MotorStorm 2005 Trailer.

[Nameless]

I understand CPIs remarks and I agree, because I hold all trailer footage of games in skepticism based on the current gen. The one problem I have with CG trailers for next-gen titles is we have no frame of reference for the PS3... Most gamers (not the people who frequent these forums) remember the huge jump from PS1 to PS2 and have huge and somewhat unrealistic expectations for the PS3 as a result... I think the CG PS3 trailers only add fuel to the fire and is a monster that the game publishers created!

Now some developers feel it's necessary to included a notice that the footage is realtime gameplay, I think they have it backwards all CG trailers should include the disclaimer. Peace

[Undercover Cop]

I'm still lost where anybody gets the idea that things were actually promised by anybody. AFAICT, the only promises ever put out there are the things forum and press idiots assumed to be promises. The vast majority of so-called "target renders" were deemed to be targets by brainless morons scattered about through the net, and not by anybody who actually had some involvement in the matter.

It's because of such nonsense that people like agentorange even exist.What a whole lot of NONSENSE! The Lair devs have ALWAYS promised that what was being shown for the last year and a half was realtime. Do I have to get the interview links out for you? The GDC demonstration on youtube?

What about DMC4, the dev PERSONALLY promised what was shown in the pre-vis was the minimum bar for graphics? Again, this is a matter of RECORD.

So what GARBAGE are you talking about? The TWO games people are in uproar about have EARNED their detraction, simply because they specifically promised a minimum bar for their work, which turned out to be woefully under the mark. If you are truly a game dev, you're gonna need to suck in that fact (unless of course, you wokr for EA, in which case you can get away with bottom of the barrel stuff).

^QFT, QFT, QFT, QF fucking T. You couldn't have put it any better CPI. Guys, listen to what he has to say. He's a game developer, working on next gen games. He has more insight into the industry than you ever will most likley.If that were true then the devs behind "next gen games" like Over G Fighters and Bomberman wouldn't come out. So what if he claims to be a game dev? With those idiotic comments he's either one of the worst game devs out or needs to have more meetings with publishers to see what kind of damage false perceptions do.

Be careful who you cheerlead on the internet.

(In fact, what next gen game is he working on?)

[Undercover Cop]

Now some developers feel it's necessary to included a notice that the footage is realtime gameplay, I think they have it backwards all CG trailers should include the disclaimer. Peace
Yes.

[Nameless]

Duplicate post for new page...
I understand CPIs remarks and I agree, because I hold all trailer footage of games in skepticism based on the current gen. The one problem I have with CG trailers for next-gen titles is we have no frame of reference for the PS3... Most gamers (not the people who frequent these forums) remember the huge jump from PS1 to PS2 and have huge and somewhat unrealistic expectations for the PS3 as a result... I think the CG PS3 trailers only add fuel to the fire and is a monster that the game publishers created!

Now some developers feel it's necessary to included a notice that the footage is realtime gameplay, I think they have it backwards all CG trailers should include the disclaimer. Peace

[Coded-Dude]

@UnderCover Cop - its okay to have an opinion - but you share it rather arrogantly. CPI is one of the most technically knowledgabel(IF NOT HTE MOST technically knowledgable) users on these forums, so when he speaks you listen. Where does your plethora of info come from? Since you so adamantly liek to dismiss everything credited users are saying.......

[frosty]

If that were true then the devs behind "next gen games" like Over G Fighters and Bomberman wouldn't come out. So what if he claims to be a game dev? With those idiotic comments he's either one of the worst game devs out or needs to have more meetings with publishers to see what kind of damage false perceptions do.

Be careful who you cheerlead on the internet.

(In fact, what next gen game is he working on?)

I'll let him pwn your ignorance himself, and devs aren't always allowed to disclose what titles they are currently working on.

[cpiasminc]

I don't know what for instance Kojima Productions have promised but what they've shown already looks so amazing I don't know what to expect anymore from any developer :)
Most likely, their so-called promise was a statement that MGS4 was a work-in-progress so "there's still room for improvement" or something along those lines. Which is most certainly a possibility. That's a far cry from "We would like to make it known that the final product will look far better than what you see here." I'm sure some twit out there on some forum would have taken a sentence like that and interpreted it to mean "Kojima-sensei swears on his mother's grave that MGS4 will deliver graphics to put movie CGI up till now to such unbearable shame that film CG corporation execs everywhere will be driven to slit their wrists."

The one problem I have with CG trailers for next-gen titles is we have no frame of reference for the PS3...
Exactly. These sorts of whiny tantrums wouldn't be there if PS3 games were already out and about.

devs aren't always allowed to disclose what titles they are currently working on.
At least not until they're announced.

[Undercover Cop]

I'll let him pwn your ignorance himself, and devs aren't always allowed to disclose what titles they are currently working on.So how exactly do you know he's a dev? How do you know he's a good dev, and actually working on a next gen system.

I'm sure if you sat down with the devs for Bomberman and Over G Fighters, they would talk the talk about knowing about the business, yet they produce garbage.

And that's even assuming he's a dev. In any case he obviously doesn't have his information straight.

@UnderCover Cop - you're a dumbass - come in here and bash users liek that - its okay to have an opinion - but you share it rather arrogantly. CPI is one of the most technically knowledgabel(IF NOT HTE MOST technically knowledgable) users on these forums, so when he speaks you listen. Where does your plethora of info come from? Since you so adamantly liek to dismiss everything credited users are saying.......Hey pal, the "dev" wrote a nonsensical rant about how consumers are promised nothing by developers, when in fact this is not true, especially in this case where Lair and DMC4 are two specific examples of PS3 games where the devs are on record for making lofty promises. He/ she is WRONG and that's that.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Undercover Cop, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.

[VG Aficionado]

Undecover Cop = :loser:

[Undercover Cop]

Undercover Cop, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.And with nothing to back that up, your retort fails.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

*Nothing to back it up? Do you read the crap that you type up here?

PSSSHAAA!

Cpiasminc has been around long enough to establish his credibility with solid knowledge and facts, just because you're new here compared to him doesn't put his crediblity in question. If anyone's under scrutiny it's you. All you do is whine and scream about false promises and hype.
I remember the Devil May Cry director saying, "This is what we expect Devil May Cry on PS3 may look like, and it is just a CG representation."

The shot of lair has to be extremely dated, it's the only plausible explanation at this point.

[Undercover Cop]

Cpiasminc has been around long enough to establish his credibility with solid knowledge and facts, just because you're new here compared to him doesn't put his crediblity in question.
I know someone on an obscure videogame forum on rottentomatoes.com that would kill your dev with his insight on the industry, and he's not a dev. What's the burning proof that keeps you cheerleading this guy even when he spouts utter nonsense?

If anyone's under scrutiny it's you. All you do is whine and scream about false promises and hype.
I remember the Devil May Cry director saying, "This is what we expect Devil May Cry on PS3 may look like, and it is just a CG representation."
Dude, do you want me to get the Famitsu interview where Kobayashi stated this?
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27473
IGN/ Gamespot have this in a video interview as well.

The shot of lair has to be extremely dated, it's the only plausible explanation at this point.Or that the devs had to downgrade stuff when they realised that the PS3 couldn't realistically handle Crysis level graphics with such a large world.

How's that?

[Nameless]

Undercover cop I can't dismiss your arguments regarding how games are marketed to consumers, because I agree this issue needs to be adressed by the industry... Once again I believe publishers are responsible for some of the unrealistic expectations by showing CG footage of PS3 titles in development.

The issue with CPI is a different issue entirely...
CPI is a respected member of the forums and has provided some interesting thoughts into many discussions. Let's look at your contributions to the forums, you have yet to post a single positive response regarding the PS3 and I think we all see your true motives. Honestly you have nothing of value to bring to the forums, enough said... Peace

[satriales]

Both Lair and DMC4 are work in progress, so we don't know how the final game will look. Lair has had one bad screenshot released and plenty of others that look incredible. The odds are that the bad pic is not representative of the final game and is from an early build. I'm not sure when DMC4 is due to be released, but I imagine they've got atleast another 6 months yet.

As we have already seen with Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, Untold Legends and Resistance the quality of the visuals is constantly improving and I expect many other games will show massive improvement over time.

[edoshin]

After the price announcement at E3, I actually had some doubts as to how well the Sony platform will be received by consumers. But I truly believe that the PS3 will really shake the earth when its released .. there's going to be a launch more grand than anything we've seen up to now. Far from interest waning, PS3 is really building up to a spectacular debut .. next gen truly does begin with Sony and its what all the people, including myself are waiting for.

[Undercover Cop]

Undercover cop I can't dismiss your arguments regarding how games are marketed to consumers, because I agree this issue needs to be adressed by the industry... Once again I believe publishers are responsible for some of the unrealistic expectations by showing CG footage of PS3 titles in development.
Agreed.

The issue with CPI is a different issue entirely...
CPI is a respected member of the forums and has provided some interesting thoughts into many discussions.
Then let me judge for myself. Just because someone joined this website a long time ago and claims to be a dev doesn't mean squat to me. The mere fact that his bitter rant seemed to me more the backlash of a fanboy as opposed to an objective dev spoke volumes.


I'm still lost where anybody gets the idea that things were actually promised by anybody. AFAICT, the only promises ever put out there are the things forum and press idiots assumed to be promises. The vast majority of so-called "target renders" were deemed to be targets by brainless morons scattered about through the net, and not by anybody who actually had some involvement in the matter.

It's because of such nonsense that people like agentorange even exist.

He's wrong and I've already proven him wrong, so his condescending tone was completely out of line. Too bad. I could be talking to Bill Gates himself: if he talks crap I'm gonna call him out for it.

Let's look at your contributions to the forums, you have yet to post a single positive response regarding the PS3 and I think we all see your true motives.
You haven't look hard enough... or at all.
http://forums.e-mpire.com/search.php?searchid=130910&pp=25&page=4
http://forums.e-mpire.com/search.php?searchid=130910&pp=25&page=3
http://forums.e-mpire.com/search.php?searchid=130910&pp=25&page=2
http://forums.e-mpire.com/search.php?searchid=130910&pp=25&page=1

Hmm?
Honestly you have nothing of value to bring to the forums, enough said... Peace
Considering your opinion of forum is that I MUST speak positive about the PS3 at some point, enough said indeed, cause that's rubbish.

Peace.

[VG Aficionado]

You're one weird guy. And questioning cpiasminc's knowledge only means that you haven't paid attention to this forum at all.

[frosty]

Then let me judge for myself. Just because someone joined this website a long time ago and claims to be a dev doesn't mean squat to me. The mere fact that his bitter rant seemed to me more the backlash of a fanboy as opposed to an objective dev spoke volumes.

Dude, I personally know for a fact that Cpias is a dev, which company he works for, and all that good shit. However, he shouldn't have to prove who he is to every idiot that doesn't believe him. And his rant was coming from the point of view of a dev who sees ignorant people making ignorant comments about things they have absolutley no knowledge about. He has already stated in previous threads exactly why he feels that way, saying that it is the publishers, not the developers, that are responsible for these pre-rendered videos that are released for all systems out there. It is for that reason that he went on a rant against people like you screaming that devs promised something. Funny thing is, you can't prove anyone promised anything. Get me an official statement from a ps3 developer promising something that turned out to be false, or stfu.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Ah, I see (regarding dmc4). I knew it was something along those lines. Well, sucks for them, I still think it looks good.

In any case, your attitude is doing more harm than good, and for the past...oh I dunno, week or so you've just been setting up negative flame-bait threads and posts. Positive doesn't have to be 'I love playstation' at all. Addendum: Woundingchaney, an xbox fan, and viper a mod who is also a nintendo fan are positive and constructive members who post here on a daily basis and they don't start arguments, fueled by forum members' hatred for them. It does have a lot to do with not stating your concerns in ways that only piss everyone off and annoy people. The point is to use some f***ing tact. If you see 5 threads questioning people's feelings about the current affairs, you don't need to start another one. Fucking DUUHH.
And Cpiasminc is just echoing what I've been stating all along. And he's not just talking about the 2 games you're ragging on at the moment, this has been the case with almost every game that gets posted, that had a CG advertisement. It's retarded. You're the one posting flame-bait rubbish all the damn time.

[Coded-Dude]

Then let me judge for myself. Just because someone joined this website a long time ago and claims to be a dev doesn't mean squat to me. The mere fact that his bitter rant seemed to me more the backlash of a fanboy as opposed to an objective dev spoke volumes.

And the fact that every thread you have involved yourself in has portrayed the PS3 in a negative light only shows the rest of us what a potential fanboy you are. You make claims that are more abusrd than the calims you are bashing.

[woundingchaney]

Hmmmmmm

So what are we talking about anyways.

[Coded-Dude]

How CPI doesn't know anything........... :wtf:

[Undercover Cop]

Dude, I personally know for a fact that Cpias is a dev, which company he works for, and all that good shit. However, he shouldn't have to prove who he is to every idiot that doesn't believe him. And his rant was coming from the point of view of a dev who sees ignorant people making ignorant comments about things they have absolutley no knowledge about. He has already stated in previous threads exactly why he feels that way, saying that it is the publishers, not the developers, that are responsible for these pre-rendered videos that are released for all systems out there. It is for that reason that he went on a rant against people like you screaming that devs promised something. Funny thing is, you can't prove anyone promised anything. Get me an official statement from a ps3 developer promising something that turned out to be false, or stfu.Didn't I just do that? The DMC4 dev said in Famitsu magazine about the TGS trailer being the minimum bar that would be achieved. I gave you a link to the beyond3d.com forums where devs and techphiles discussed it.

Obviously with the new screens, it was false.

With Lair
And just to make sure there's no question on the matter, the trailer begins with the following: "The following is comprised entirely of in-game footage." It seems that Factor 5 has been listening.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/635/635510p1.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgW81km74lk

What more must I do? The dude is wrong and that's that. Do you seriously want me to suddenly say he's right because he says he's a dev or something? Do you accept everything this ONE DUDE says (even if he IS a dev)? Are all devs equal? Why not learn to think for yourself? The man is WRONG, and I've proven him WRONG, thus he had no right to fly off the handle with such a bitter strewn post. Get over it.

And get this thread back on topic.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

how some people by the initials of Undercover Cop are making the world a meaner place to live.

and UC, the only thing you proved was the DMC thing. Everything else is just you insisting in capital letters that we're wrong and you're right. How does that make you any more correct than us?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Haha, you just... tried to neg rep me. But you have no repping power. BAHAHAHAHAHA.

[satriales]

Why is he even here?
I really hate the TV show Big Brother, but I would never visit the forums and continually post about how bad it is, infact even visiting the forums would prove that I do have an interest in it, which means I would have been lieing when I said I hated it.

Conclusion: Undercover Cop is really a Sony Fanboy, but has somehow lost his way and now he is confused which causes irrational behaviour against the one thing he loves more than anything else in the world... the PS3.

[Undercover Cop]

and UC, the only thing you proved was the DMC thing.I just showed the Lair thing. In fact:

All I know is:
these screenshots (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/651/651387/lair-20050916042717444.jpg) were taken from last year. (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/635/635751/lair-20050721064734439.jpg)

The trailer made it abundantly clear, and I quote: 'the following is comprised entirely of in-game footage."

So logic suggests (I won't say dictates) that really, really crummy ps2 looking screenshot is from a dated build/version of the game.

You JUST made a post where the devs made a commitment in the GDC conference interview AND in the video that what they had was realtime and representative of what the game would be like.


Everything else is just you insisting in capital letters that we're wrong and you're right. How does that make you any more correct than us?I know I'm right because I have proof. I've provided proof. This proof is from the rest of the industry. It is verified as such.

That's the idea behind peer review material, so one dude (even if he is a dev) can't fly off the handle spouting things that are obviously untrue and expects everyone on a message board to follow what he says just because.

You've yet to show why I should all of a sudden say he is right just because he MIGHT be a dev.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Is it TES syndrome?

Uh, he's not the one flying off the handle, it's clearly you. Making a huuuuge fucking deal about dumb little shit. I granted you the Devil May Cry bit. Despite it not being up to part with a 15 second clip of CG they showed, it still looks really good, and is still in development. As far as lair is concerned, what proof did you show? The only confusion is how old or new that really bad picture is (and at least 2 people have said it's pre-E3 '05 old). But to even suggest that all of a sudden Lair's graphics went from amazing to down right poor overnight because little old ps3 isn't strong enough is ridiculous. Even if the graphics took a hit it wouldn't be that drastic. So you're off base. And Cpiasminc knows what he's talking about, whether you want to accept it or not. He's probably the most reasonable person up here.

[VG Aficionado]

Haha, you just... tried to neg rep me. But you have no repping power. BAHAHAHAHAHA.You can try and make him liek teh cokc lol :drunk: I already contributed to that ;)

[Viano]

Haha, you just... tried to neg rep me. But you have no repping power. BAHAHAHAHAHA.

oh? I never know the system works that way loL


anyways we are all idiots and he's the genius and if he thinks that's true I have no idea why he's still here and posting th7t, lmΩo

[Undercover Cop]

Why is he even here?
I really hate the TV show Big Brother, but I would never visit the forums and continually post about how bad it is, infact even visiting the forums would prove that I do have an interest in it, which means I would have been lieing when I said I hated it.

Conclusion: Undercover Cop is really a Sony Fanboy, but has somehow lost his way and now he is confused which causes irrational behaviour against the one thing he loves more than anything else in the world... the PS3.
Why is it you folks NEVER actually check my posts? When I first got here there were games I liked on the 360 and PS3. Only after the E3 debacle did you ever see me begin to post negative stuff (about BOTH the 360 and PS3, and not all the time either. I even stopped for a while to see if things get better.

However, it's coming down to crunch time and Sony has been delivering bad news after bad news. This is a business: unless Sony has something REALLY GREAT up its sleeve it's not magically gonna turn itself around enough.

And what do you mean "lost my way"? Is this a cult or something? I wouldn't even expect such blind fanboyism from an actual PS3 website, and this is a discussion board. Are the people on Windows Vista only supposed to speak flowers and candy if that product messes up? How about the latest Volkswagon that gets recalled?

Or are we only supposed to talk about this stuff in passing, as one would mention the weather?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Yeah, when you +rep someone, you add however many points to their reputation score (in your case, you'd add 6 points to someone's score). But he has 0 (wonder why) so he tried to neg-rep me because he's a little shit, and only little shits neg rep people and get neg-repped, so his attempt at hurting my internet identity proved fruitless. Anyway, I have to go to work. Have fun with this guy.

[Coded-Dude]

So....wai a second dude.........are you saying that the in-game footage wasn't actually in-game(Lair)?
Can you pleas provide teh proof(yet again) that it wasn't in-game....thanks bunches!

[Undercover Cop]

anyways we are all idiots and he's the geniusIs this how it works here? I prove one person wrong, all of a sudden I'm an elitist telling everyone their idiots? Even strawman arguments on political forums are a less blatant than that...

[Nameless]

Undercover Cop, I agree with your argument regarding publishers misleading the consumer with prerendered footage... (That's established by my previous post) Also, I respect that you provided proof regarding DMC4 & Lair, but the footage shown to date is not final build footage just like the CG trailer shown was not final footage unfortunately like CPI stated games in development are subject to change. Once the final product is released and the results are disappointing we hold the ultimate power not to purchase the title. In many ways this argument is a moot point...

My primary concern is when publishers do not show any real-time footage in advertisements and some gamers do not find out until they have purchased the game and fired up their consoles... Now that's a major issue IMO!

I agree with LaLiLu that your post have no tact and you are not making a positive contribution to the forum. I'm a videogame fan not a console fan and if you bother reading any of my post it's very clear in all my statements. Peace

[section]

edit:fuhgeddabaudit

[Undercover Cop]

SO wiat dude.........ar eyou sayin ghtat the in-game footage wasn't actually in-game(Lair)?
Remember the Sony conference 2005 at E3?

Remember the Lula and Peter Molina demos?
Those things look incredible, and were in-engine, but weren't representative of how characters in PS3 games would ACTUALLY look. They were localised images in a small environment.

All I'm saying is that what the guys had at GDC, while probably running an a realtime engine, was NOT representative of how the game is going to be. It functioned like a prerendered movie - they spent a couple weeks or months working on that isolated demo alone so it looked good and they could urn around the camera. However when it came time for the real big game with everything turned on, obviously that couldn't be done.

This happens all the time.

The problem is that they claimed otherwise when they clearly would have known. They didn't wake up yesterday and say "oh wow we really can't do this with all the elements in!"


Can you pleas provide teh prrof(yet again) that it wasn't in-game....thanks bunches!I've posted it TWICE. The GDC vid on Youtube and IGN's report. There should also be a report on Gamespot. Even Attack of the Show talked about it when they did that cross interview with that guy from IGN on the evening of the conference. It's on this page.

[section]

anyways we are all idiots and he's the geniusI prove one person wrong, all of a sudden I'm an elitist telling everyone their idiots?

It's called sarcasm. To certain extent at least.

[Viano]

Is this how it works here? I prove one person wrong, all of a sudden I'm an elitist telling everyone their idiots? Even strawman arguments on political forums are a less blatant than that...

oops I'm wrong then, genius never reply the post like that.. I'm soo sorry

I ~ believe~ on~ce awhi~le, som~e wei~rd, peopl~e wi~ll come to~ forum~ an~d wri~te som~e wei~rd th~~7*t~

woO! just finished a song in 10 sec, beatles got owned! jk. ignore me will ya q(’　-`)p

[Pluto]

Time can only tell with situations like this.

So, it doesn't make sense for us to beat our heads over things regarding graphical integrity.

Would you absolutely rule out the possibility of it looking the way it was presented in the trailer, Undercover Cop?

[woundingchaney]

Well I think a few Sony titles have come very close to rendered footage shown like FNR4 and HS, not so much MS or Lair but they are still good looking titles. Im not sure what undercover is concerned about or trying to say, would you please refresh me Im somewhat in a haze as I cant find much of an origin to all of this.

[Undercover Cop]

Undercover Cop, I agree with your argument regarding publishers misleading the consumer with prerendered footage... (That's established by my previous post) Also, I respect that you provided proof regarding DMC4 & Lair, but the footage shown to date is not final build footage just like the CG trailer shown was not final footage unfortunately like CPI stated games in development are subject to change. Once the final product is released and the results are disappointing we hold the ultimate power not to purchase the title. In many ways this argument is a moot point...
Fine I guess we'll see whether magic happens within a couple months...

My primary concern is when publishers do not show any real-time footage in advertisements and some gamers do not find out until they have purchased the game and fired up their consoles... Now that's a major issue IMO!Mine too. All I'm saying is that there are bigger developers who can afford to run a different version of this deceit: by making "realtime trailers" in the same way they make prerendered trailers, and showcase them, when that is NOT representative of the actual game.

A technicality if you will. Remember EA with Madden?

I agree with LaLiLu that your post have no tact and you are not making a positive contribution to the forum. I'm a videogame fan not a console fan and if you bother reading any of my post it's very clear in all my statements. Peace
Sorry, but between that dev FIRST flying off the handle at other posters when he's clearly wrong himself, to you and other members calling me an idiot when I constantly post proof to my arguments and my post history, I have no choice but to view you as a hypocrite.

Maybe it's better you don't speak to me anymore in this forum, and vice versa. I've made my point, I've backed it up more than once, and I'm tired of the arguing.

Peace.

[PUNK em 733]

How about this...DON'T BUY the FUCKIN' SYTEM!!!!!!

[satriales]

Why is it you folks NEVER actually check my posts? When I first got here there were games I liked on the 360 and PS3. Only after the E3 debacle did you ever see me begin to post negative stuff (about BOTH the 360 and PS3, and not all the time either. I even stopped for a while to see if things get better.

However, it's coming down to crunch time and Sony has been delivering bad news after bad news. This is a business: unless Sony has something REALLY GREAT up its sleeve it's not magically gonna turn itself around enough.

And what do you mean "lost my way"? Is this a cult or something? I wouldn't even expect such blind fanboyism from an actual PS3 website, and this is a discussion board. Are the people on Windows Vista only supposed to speak flowers and candy if that product messes up? How about the latest Volkswagon that gets recalled?

Or are we only supposed to talk about this stuff in passing, as one would mention the weather?
I haven't checked your past posts and I'm not going to as I really can't be bothered. If you really aren't a troll and all this negativity is just a phase then I apologize. I was joking about the whole 'lost my way' thing. I thought I was accusing a PS3-hating troll of loving the PS3 (that really annoys them ;)), but maybe I was wrong.
I have been on xbox forums and posted lots of negative things even though I do like the 360 (and own one) it's just I have lots of bad stuff to say about it, which to xbox fanboys would look like I'm trolling so I wouldn't be surprised if everyone's got the wrong idea and you actually mean no harm.

[venomv]

@Undercover Cop: CPI was speaking in generalizations.....and you proved him wrong (whichs he's not) because something that is a work in progress does not match up to it's FMV trailer, and screens from another game that are in all likelyhood extremely old.....

Congrats moron.......

Ohh, and those links you keep posting to your supposed positive remarks don't lead anywhere.....don't bother reposting them though, I'm ignoring you.

[Viano]

topic> yes, duh, what's the reason not to believe it after watching so many crazy clips?

[Coded-Dude]

So....wai a second dude.........are you saying that the in-game footage wasn't actually in-game(Lair)?
Can you pleas provide teh proof(yet again) that it wasn't in-game....thanks bunches!


again.......?

[Siraris]

TGS cannot get here soon enough, seriously. All these people shitting all over Lair, that is NOT what the game will look like, I will stake my lifes savings on it.

This just shows how fickle people are. One second they are praising something, the next second they see ONE screenshot and they change their mind. Does anyone understand how ludicrous this is? I'd understand if this was coming from people who weren't big gamers, or who weren't posting on a gaming messageboard, but ALL of these people know that screenshots don't reflect a games quality, and that this game still has a WAYS to go in development.

The footage from GDC was real time, in game, as stated by the developer. Some guy on another forum started going nuts on me today saying that MGS4 was completely pre-rendered, which is why it looks so good, and I'm an idiot for thinking the PS3 has any potential.

And no one has commented on how AWESOME F1 looks.

[Raijin]

Well I think a few Sony titles have come very close to rendered footage shown like FNR4 and HS, not so much MS or Lair but they are still good looking titles. Im not sure what undercover is concerned about or trying to say, would you please refresh me Im somewhat in a haze as I cant find much of an origin to all of this.


FNR3 is better looking imo than E2k5 video. HS on certain points is better but we have to see more from the game to make further judgement. MS has the feeling but is obviously far from the CG trailer in 2005 technically speaking. However Lair is a total disappointment in every aspect... The downgrade is absolutely massive and yees I know It's not fair to judge the game from screens (which I hope they are from an old build, very old build) but even this... It's hard to hide your disappointment especially coming from this team. :(

So about Lair, I dont know there will be the TGS in 2 weeks and It has been said It will be playable, wait and see.

EDIT: The weird thing is the video last year (at the PlaySatation event, not E3 2k6) about Lair didnt seem to be out of this world but wow.

[Undercover Cop]

@Undercover Cop: CPI was speaking in generalizations.....and you proved him wrong (whichs he's not) because something that is a work in progress does not match up to it's FMV trailer, and screens from another game that are in all likelyhood extremely old.....
He was speaking in absolutes... and I could have used a lot more examples that show that devs DO promise people (among them potential customers) what a game is gonna look like. If this wasn't true Activision wouldn't have been successfully been sued for those misleading trailers in Europe.

There are a lot more examples. I just used Lair and DMC4 cause they are what is being discussed at the moment. And in any case he spoke in absolutes and is thus invalidated.

I'm still lost where anybody gets the idea that things were actually promised by anybody. AFAICT, the only promises ever put out there are the things forum and press idiots assumed to be promises. The vast majority of so-called "target renders" were deemed to be targets by brainless morons scattered about through the net, and not by anybody who actually had some involvement in the matter.

Congrats moron.......
:dur:
Ohh, and those links you keep posting to your supposed positive remarks don't lead anywhere.....don't bother reposting them though, I'm ignoring you.
Those links are my posting history. Free free to ignore me whenever you please. Just don't post wrong things and expect not to be called on it.

[woundingchaney]

FNR3 is better looking imo than E2k5 video. HS on certain points is better but we have to see more from the game to make further judgement. MS has the feeling but is obviously far from the CG trailer in 2005 technically speaking. However Lair is a total disappointment in every aspect... The downgrade is absolutely massive and yees I know It's not fair to judge the game from screens (which I hope they are from an old build, very old build) but even this... It's hard to hide your disappointment especially coming from this team. :(

So about Lair, I dont know there will be the TGS in 2 weeks and It has been said It will be playable, so wait and see.


The screens of FN was very impressive, I dont think they are beyond the trailer but the trailer does show action and the "sense" of gameplay, but I see what your saying.

Anyways since when has consoles ever fell in performance with the continuation of a generation?? I believe as the gen progresses games will look better thats a give in. Do I think that they will ever be the equivalent of the pre-renders we have seen, well - in some cases yes but overall most likely not.

[Coded-Dude]

Are you goign to answer my fucking question or keep dodging me?
You are yelling and screaming about your proof but I don see it......could you please show me?

[Undercover Cop]

Are you goign to answer my fucking question or keep dodging me?
You are yelling and screaming about your proof but I don see it......could you please show me?
If Lalelulelo2003 found it (and acknowledged it, you can find it for your damn self. I've posted it more than once.

Good Will Hunting. And mind your manners.

[frosty]

FNR4? what is that? I hope you aren't talking about fight night, because it never had a pre-rendered target trailer. All footage ever shown of that game on PS3 has been real time.

[Coded-Dude]

sorry I had to ask 3 fucking times before you acknowledged me, that would be a problem with your manners mate(not mine)

and all I have found is this: "Ah, I see (regarding dmc4)."

Still nothing that confirms Lair......if you knwo where it is please post it
(its a lot easier than me searching)

[Domination]

Are you still confident in PS3 titles coming anywhere close to what devs promised?

Cause I'm not. yes I know they have target renders but they seem to be more for hyping us into a false belief as opposed to any standard they are actually aiming at. Only folks who have done as expected is Ninja Theory. Give them a round of applause for their hard work.

As for everyone else like Resident Evil 5, Final Fantasy XIII, and even MGS4, I'm losing hope. Every other minute I hear folk telling me the 360 and PS3 are extremely comparable to make the $100-$200 dollar difference ridiculous, and every other minute they seem to be proven right. :(

Hope TGS is a real banger... they need it...

I don't mean to sound boastful, but I am more than confident. We've had these discussions here since 2003, maybe even earlier. The results were all the same as they are now. Back then you could convince very few that something like Vitual Fighter 5 could ever be possible this generation. But take a good, long, hard look at where we are now.

If last-gens leap is any indication to this one, I strongly believe that in the coming future, developers are going to pull off some amazing things. They may not necessarily equal or exceed what you want them to, but I do believe that the gap is going to be much smaller than imaginable in some cases. What is being seen right now is early footage (first generation or premature development) - some of it not even close to taking advantage of the hardware while others server a completely different purposes.

Give it time.

[Raijin]

The screens of FN was very impressive, I dont think they are beyond the trailer but the trailer does show action and the "sense" of gameplay, but I see what your saying.

Anyways since when has consoles ever fell in performance with the continuation of a generation?? I believe as the gen progresses games will look better thats a give in. Do I think that they will ever be the equivalent of the pre-renders we have seen, well - in some cases yes but overall most likely not.

Oh, that's a no-brainer to me. In fact, I expect the progression between this first gen and say, 4th or even 5th generation of next-gen games to be greater than last gen and more noticeable.

[woundingchaney]

FNR4? what is that? I hope you aren't talking about fight night, because it never had a pre-rendered target trailer. All footage ever shown of that game on PS3 has been real time.
Yeah I know thats why I referred it to a trailer.

Is it FNR4 or FNR3.

[cpiasminc]

I'm still failing to find the word "promise" anywhere. All the links are of someone else's summations of what they heard or read, and not anybody's particular statements. Even the DMC quote you had was a summation from a translated transcript -- where's the original Japanese quote where there's words like "yakusoku" or "kanarazu"?

The Lair link referred to an older trailer which indeed was stated to be realtime on the video itself -- not anything said in an interview or a talk of any sort. You seem to think it's a promise when it's not, and never has been.

[Undercover Cop]

Yeah I know thats why I referred it to a trailer.

Is it FNR4 or FNR3.It's Round 3.

Another things that bothers me about that is that, is it gonna be worth buying FNR3, when Round 4 is coming out for both next gen consoles shortly afterwards?

[Coded-Dude]

The Lair link referred to an older trailer which indeed was stated to be realtime on the video itself -- not anything said in an interview or a talk of any sort. You seem to think it's a promise when it's not, and never has been.

I am still trying to find out how it is proven false........
The only difference between that trailer and the new ones is that they removed the "shinyness" oon the dragons; right?

[woundingchaney]

Oh, that's a no-brainer to me. In fact, I expect the progression between this first gen and say, 4th or even 5th generation of next-gen games to be greater than last gen and more noticeable.
Thats wasnt directed towards you but more along the lines of the thread starter or discussion within the thread.

LOL

[cpiasminc]

The only difference between that trailer and the new ones is that they removed the "shinyness" oon the dragons; right?
Pretty much. And the "shininess" was probably valid on that first one because, IIRC, those shots were in a rainy scene.

[Coded-Dude]

.....still waiting for that Proof "Cop?"

[Domination]

I don't know what for instance Kojima Productions have promised but what they've shown already looks so amazing I don't know what to expect anymore from any developer :)


Kojima is pretty much straight on with his targets. I'm pretty confident in his work. :stirpot:

[Smokey]

Kojima is pretty much straight on with his targets. I'm pretty confident in his work. :stirpot:
yeah ive always noticed what he shows ya you GET or better! awsome man :)

[Undercover Cop]

I am still trying to find out how it is proven false........
The only difference between that trailer and the new ones is that they removed the "shinyness" oon the dragons; right?
You've got to be kidding. They removed a lot more than "shinyness".

GDC demo With "shinyness".
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/651/651387/lair-20050916042717444.jpg

GDC demo without "shinyness"
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/698/698558/lair-screen-20060327004958573.jpg
How about you quote this, then post the new images immediately afterwards, and then argue that "it really looks as great, just without the shinyness from the rain!"

See if you can honestly convince yourself of that.

[OmniCloud]

@Undercover Cop-ur making a lot of enemies real fast guy..Slow down man!! PS3, just like PS2 is off to a pretty Rocky start we ALL REALIZE THAT!! The games that ur bashing aren't finished AND aren't even launch games to my knowledge. I seriously can't understand ur post tho?! There's like no other game on any system that looks as good as say MGS4. And that is a year away from being released!!! Just take a look at Gears or Resistance, Check out the HS trailer man--SOME devs are getting the job done already with these new systems.

DOn't u guys remember with DC and PS2 was out??! What game look a GAZILLION TIMES better than PS and N64??! But guess what did, that MGS2 trailer that wasn't coming out for another year.

How quickly some of us forget, and how easily some of get sucked into bashing and ranting about things that we don't have yet. Cell=PS3 and it's amazing!! STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE GAMES!! There will be 2 systems that deliver the graphics everyone is waiting for. 2!!! Get a FREAKIN 360, and when something u like comes out on PS3-GO get 1!!! What the freak is the problem??

The bashing is utterly ridiculous. and I only comment because I'm sick of all the flaming when I come home from work and wanna talk about video games on the forums. Now I'm not gonna say wait for TGS or wait for launch-cuz u seem pretty pessimistic about PS3 in general right now man...I will simply say wait untill ur impressed...

btw-if u don't like being sooped up for a CG trailer and then seeing the actual game-suggestion??! Don't get sooped??!! LOL...how the hell r people seriosly madd about there own emotions...this forum is hilarious...LOL

[Undercover Cop]

Kojima is pretty much straight on with his targets. I'm pretty confident in his work. :stirpot:
Well, yeah, but that's because he's freaking Hideo Kojima - probably the most honest and talented dev today.

[cpiasminc]

How about you quote this, then post the new images immediately afterwards, and then argue that "it really looks as great, just without the shinyness from the rain!"

See if you can honestly convince yourself of that.
Well it wouldn't really matter if we did or not, because you've already convinced yourself to the contrary and that's not the point anyway. All it really shows is that things have changed since the TGS 2005 demo (the "shiny" one). And you seem to be under the highly misguided notion that there was a promise made in that video. All they said is that everything that was in THAT video was in-game. Didn't say anything to suggest it would always look like that. Simply that the game looked like that at that stage.

[Coded-Dude]

How about you quote this, then post the new images immediately afterwards, and then argue that "it really looks as great, just without the shinyness from the rain!"


I think it looks better.....the dragon is impressive!
Wrinkly skin, slightly visible veins, and discoloration
(exactly how I would imagine an ancient reptile's skin - NOT smooth and shiny)

How about you quote this fool; whent the final product is out and it doesn't meet/exceed the "allegeld" in-game graphics showed from the shiney demo, you can come here and tell us all how fucking stupid and fanboyish we really are. Until then you are comparing nothing to nohting(an unfinished product) how can you PROVE its wrong when its not even finished?

btw - you "opinion" on those two screnes is not "proof" of anything.

[woundingchaney]

Well that screen looks good but the others I have seen are definetely not anywhere near as impressive. Im wondering if they are incorporating some sort of gameplay feature or maybe they are still working on much of the games content.

[Coded-Dude]

Well give it a day or two wounding, I am almost positive it will be playable at TGS
(if not - then we may have reason to believe they are being deceptive about something)

I would be happy wiht jsut another demo, but I think they have a playable product already
(even if its jsut a few minutes of roaming/flying)

[woundingchaney]

Well give it a day or two wounding, I am almost positive it will be playable at TGS
(if not - then we may have reason to believe they are being deceptive about something)

I would be happy wiht jsut another demo, but I think they have a playable product already
(even if its jsut a few minutes of roaming/flying)
LOL

Im not writing the game off or anything here man.

[makeitlookreal]

It's my opinion that we have a lot of games that are matching or coming very close to matching their target renders. We even have a few that look like they are exceeding their target renders (Heavenly Sword and Resistance as examples).

Overall, I believe that we have a LOT to look forward to when it comes to PS3 games.

However, if you have a lot of companies producing games some of them are either NOT going to hit their target renders. It's just logical to assume that not every company is going to hit their goals.

Also, I agree with Agent Orange when it comes to one thing. That if they push super great looking CGI then they need to live up to those images. If they don't then they should be ready for the gaming community to be upset with them.

Now, how I differ from Agent Orange is that I still think those games can be fun, great looking, and good games WITHOUT hitting their target render.

I want to say something to you. The truth of the matter is that there are a LOT of great looking games being made for the PS3. Also, you are NOT doing your homework when you make your comments that this game and that game has not met it's target. For example, when it comes to Lair that first image simply cannot be of the current build. It's like comparing a whole bunch of brand new cars that have came out and then looking at a Model T. Also, I want to say you are judging games before they are even officially launched. A LOT of the graphical work comes near the END of game development. You see, a lot of times game developers build the basic models, AI, animation, and other features FIRST. Then they spruce everything up in the end.

Every game that we know of today will end up looking better by the time it is launched.

I would like to suggest something to you Agent Orange. I am also a critical person like yourself. I also try to demand the best for my gaming dollar. But before you continue judging various games WITHOUT EVEN ALL THE INFORMATION you need why don't you wait until TGS in a few weeks?

Almost all of these games will be coming out with playable demos or new trailers. It is going to be a fantastic time to see tons and tons of games.

Then you will have a lot more information to look at before you make claims.

I think you will be surprised in a GOOD way.

[Coded-Dude]

LOL

Im not writing the game off or anything here man.

no I know dude, I'm jsut saying TGS is litereally a day or two a way, and hopefully - we should know A LOT more than we do now........my hope is that the info we discover will help lay to rest a few of htese "threads."

I know you are lookign forward to new vids/demos/etc. as much as I :beer:

[Domination]

TGS cannot get here soon enough, seriously. All these people shitting all over Lair, that is NOT what the game will look like, I will stake my lifes savings on it.

This just shows how fickle people are. One second they are praising something, the next second they see ONE screenshot and they change their mind. Does anyone understand how ludicrous this is? I'd understand if this was coming from people who weren't big gamers, or who weren't posting on a gaming messageboard, but ALL of these people know that screenshots don't reflect a games quality, and that this game still has a WAYS to go in development.

The footage from GDC was real time, in game, as stated by the developer. Some guy on another forum started going nuts on me today saying that MGS4 was completely pre-rendered, which is why it looks so good, and I'm an idiot for thinking the PS3 has any potential.

And no one has commented on how AWESOME F1 looks.

Y'know what, I would give you two or three reps if I could, but I can't. I completely agree with you. It kills me how some people (no one in particular) are so easily persuaded by every piece of information they recieve, rather it be constructive or destructive to the situation. I would have thought some people would be more decisive and intuitive. :nervous:

[Domination]

Well, yeah, but that's because he's freaking Hideo Kojima - probably the most honest and talented dev today.

Maybe that's the case, and maybe that's all you need. But I'll tell you this much: NO ONE believed the PS2 to be capable of what it is now. It took experience and dedication. All I'm simply saying is instead of immediately jumping to conclusions every chance you get, give it a little time to establish some momentum once in awhile.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Your stupidity is only exceeded by the likes of Agentorange. The LAIR footage was obviously real-time, and bashing a long-time member, who has proven himself countless times, is just plain stupid.

Cpi has posted tons of technical info, and made it easier for us to digest. I honestly DON'T CARE whether he's a Dev or not, as long as he stays a good forum member!

The only thing I agree is that those CG trailers need to stop.

[cpiasminc]

I am still trying to find out how it is proven false........
If anything, he's been helping to prove it as true, since he's been finding summations and state-of-affairs statements and misconstruing them as promises.

The only thing I agree is that those CG trailers need to stop.
Right or wrong, I don't see that happening. I do think all the fuss people are making now will be forgotten once there are games available for the PS3. It's happening now because people get confused between the images they see and the images they expect because of all the contrived notions of what it means to be "truly next-gen." People have already forgotten that the same circus took place prior to the Xbox360 launch -- and it's forgotten because 360 and several games for it are out there now. The same will happen with PS3, I expect. And the only reason it hasn't happened with Wii is because Nintendo already told everybody not to expect miracles.

[.®]

Ok ok let me be the first to say the fact that this thread made it to 6 pages is amazing. Untill november 17th, it's the 17th right? Anyway untill then Mr. Cop guy, just chill, your vibe is just killing it man, just chill. Please stop your head strong arguing it's pointless on another forum you might get the results your looking for but I've seen many like you try and fail at their attempts here. It just doesn't work. Anyway gone again.

[BruceWayneIII]

There will always be CG trailers:

- in terms of editing, drama etc. they are supposed to get you excited. Like a movie trailer (there's also heaving cutting/editing).

- how can you a show finished, polished gameplay trailer, when the game isn't nearly finished?

- and NOBODY understands and relates to 'work in progress' video/screens. If they actually showed their current state of quality during the whole process, everybody would ridicoule the game.

You can see the same behaviour in advertising agencies. If you show a client a mockup/sketch of a website made in e.g. Photoshop, the client act's like it's going to look EXACTLY like that - even though you clearly state it's a sketch.

The way to get around this is making a drawing/painting on paper. Just like the artwork images you see released from the game developers. The client clearly sees it's a sketch and nothing more.

In the gaming industry, artwork is just not enough to get the message across - hence the CG trailers.

[Domination]

Deano C is not a member of Ninja Theory!!! http://tpl4life.com/images/smilies/haha.gif

I'm sorry, guys but I just had to add that. Such a debate is completely pointless, IMO. Why don't we just move on to something different and more um......general in discussion to the members here.

[Viper]

What the hell did I just read?

UC, I think many of us are agreeig with you in certain fashions just not the extent you portray. The use of target rendors internally is valid and good but once they get seen by the optical receptors of TES sufferors, they become unintentional holy grails. I'd prefer they not get used for promotional materials but as you can tell, they obviously work for the publisher and a few raning TEST sufferors won't change that. Though the FCC might but that's another story.

As for the last two pics of lair posted together, they look to be from the same build in my opnion. The textures, poly count and even atmospheric conditions appear the same. The big difference is the top pic appears to be captured during a lightening strike. Nothing else could explain that kind of 'shine'. Just being wet doesn't create a shine especially in completely overcast weather as the second pic denotes.


As for Cpi, the first time we told you collectively he was a dev, you should have accepted it. Do you think us admins would let someone post around claiming to be a dev and us not look into it (if for nothing else than to hit him up for info on PSINext)?



To answer your question. Maybe. Impossible to tell before games are in our hands. Further still what of years down the road? Madden target render.....now THAT was just bullshit but most of these that you speak of are the exceptions and not the rule.

[Omega]

The flaming in threads like these needs to stop. We don't call people dumbass, idiots, etc because of their opinions. Let's handle debates and differences of opinions with a little more maturity regardless of your stance on the issue.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

what.....what about when they act like dumbasses and idiots?

[Coded-Dude]

i apologize for my violent outburst, but when a well respected member of the forums gets called a moron, I get all bipolar and shit(maybe its jsut PMS)........ O:-]

[Applefiend]

We all need to relieve the tension in some games of Resistance in 70 odd days. (Well, the ones in the US and Japan).

I'm sure even our vice president Dick Cheney would agree nothing makes friends better than shooting a guy in the face... :)

Ack chill, it's Factor 5, they don't make ugly games.

[Red_Eyes]

People, all these arguing is pointless. There is only one truth: TGS. Soon...