Lair

[GTShotoKen]

I want to appologize.
Im just a bit sensitive when it comes to Killzone because so many people called me an idiot just because i like this GAME...
You didnt made any mistake or something.

But never mind maybe LAIR isnt that great gameplay or control wise but i think those terrible scores are just not okay.
There are WAY more worse games that get better scores.
I wanna play it for myself that i can judge it.

I understand completely, I got kind of riled up in my own thoughts too.

I definitely don't think that a 4.9 is reasonable either since many worse games have scored better, but I do see the mind set of Penny Arcade eye opening in that I personally need to stop seeing "decent" playing games as "Magnum Opuses" just because they ment alot to me before their release as a current or future holder of the respective system, or systems, they are to be released on.

I guess the real question is if Lair is good enough to warrant a purchase at $60 or will gamers enjoy the game more if they wait until it gets cheaper.

[Fats]

I think that we're off the topic of remote play but I just had a thought, perhaps it's been mentioned before I'm not sure. With the new PSP coming out, with its TV out capabilities, does that mean that we can remote play AND have the PS3 running on a TV in another room from the PSP? :)

[GTShotoKen]

I think that we're off the topic of remote play but I just had a thought, perhaps it's been mentioned before I'm not sure. With the new PSP coming out, with its TV out capabilities, does that mean that we can remote play AND have the PS3 running on a TV in another room from the PSP? :)

Wait...wouldn't that be redundant?

Anyways, I believe remote playing lair will turn over controls to the psp completely so you can't play it on the actual PS3 in another room at the same time. That would also be like running two games at the same time on one PS3, which I don't think it can do.

[Fats]

Not if I can't use the TV downstairs because someone else is using it and I can't be bothered bringing the PS3 upstairs until they've finished. It's a much, much easier solution in theory.

[VG Aficionado]

Wait...wouldn't that be redundant?Not at all, but it wouldn't be 1080p, that's for sure. That's if it's actually doable.

[GTShotoKen]

Not if I can't use the TV downstairs because someone else is using it and I can't be bothered bringing the PS3 upstairs until they've finished. It's a much, much easier solution in theory.

Oh my bad, I thought you wanted to play the game on two two different screens at the same time.

I don't see why what you say isn't feasable since the image is being routed to your psp. I'm just not sure exactly how much bandwidth is needed to send lair data to your psp. The guy using remote play was probably standing right beside his PS3 in order for it to work.

[section]

Oh a group hug is needed now

:grouphug:

I love you all but I love myself more so I stick to my opinion. There are various underrated games, I think LAIR could by time become a classic; probably an example of a game gone awry wrong or a misunderstood gem time will tell but I can't to the name of my unbridled dick understand how could they release a game which is, according to the reviews, so seriously flawed when they at F5 definitely don't want or need a financial suicide.

I mean, I would be happy to read their own comments on the reviews & scores on the game, did they seriously even once dip their heads in the possibility bowl full of all review scores so low?

[GTAce]

Fully agree with ya sct-i.

Btw. didnt got LAIR a 8/10 from Kotaku?

[PS3LikeNoOther]

I can not believe the crap this game is getting. It is not hard to play in the least bit, in fact I wish they had a harder difficulty setting as I only died once thoughout the hole game. Mabye if these people would learn the controls like useing the R2 or L2 buttons to slow down, and thrusting the controller forwards to burst forwards. IMO there was nothing wrong with the controls in this game, what really hurt its gameplay was the crazy screen problems. When you lock onto someone coming at you they can fly by you and get the screen all out of wack. The other big one is the no stop during an informitive cut scence. Other than that the controls for this game are extreamly easy to learn.

This sixaxis bashing going on in the gaming world is beyond BS. The controller works like a charm if you give it a chance. Games like Motorstorm, Warhawk, and Lair are a hundred times better if you learn to use motion. I have nearly stoped playing GT because it does not support it (I don't currently have a wheel and am waiting for the Blue Tooth one for GT5). Motion is the real deal this generation and everyone had better get used to it or else go out and get a 360. I will continue to interact with my games and praise the developers that embrace the motion controls. I think the best game this gen will be on PS3 and will take advantage of motion, and EYE giving the player the most emersed possible experiance.

[section]

^^yes I love you too :)

*eats yet another magic mushroom*

[GTAce]

@PS3: Oh dont say this!
Your just a fanboy i can see it on your name.



j/k man. ;)

EDIT: *eats yet another magic mushroom*
:lol:

[Sephiroth_VII]

Oh my bad, I thought you wanted to play the game on two two different screens at the same time.

I don't see why what you say isn't feasable since the image is being routed to your psp. I'm just not sure exactly how much bandwidth is needed to send lair data to your psp. The guy using remote play was probably standing right beside his PS3 in order for it to work.

Which is why the PS3 supports remote play through a router ;)

Also, I really hope the new PSP is secretly updated with 802.11g WiFi. That would take care of most of the issues with remote play, and be fairly cheap to implement.

[Nameless]

^ Bluetooth and 802.11 B,G & N support would be great...

[Sephiroth_VII]

N would be pretty useless for PSP/PS3 connectivity, but yes, it would be nice, however I think it would suck too much power.

[NickSCFC]

Oh a group hug is needed now

:grouphug:

I love you all but I love myself more so I stick to my opinion. There are various underrated games, I think LAIR could by time become a classic; probably an example of a game gone awry wrong or a misunderstood gem time will tell but I can't to the name of my unbridled dick understand how could they release a game which is, according to the reviews, so seriously flawed when they at F5 definitely don't want or need a financial suicide.

I mean, I would be happy to read their own comments on the reviews & scores on the game, did they seriously even once dip their heads in the possibility bowl full of all review scores so low?

After the (at the moment) brilliant graphics become dated, no one will remember this game.

Gameplay-wise it's the biggest load of crap since Independance Day on PS1.

[evillion]

After the (at the moment) brilliant graphics become dated, no one will remember this game.

Gameplay-wise it's the biggest load of crap since Independance Day on PS1.
"no one" as in yourself or rest of us? in any case, Lair will always b remembered for pwning Gears in graphics and the very first true 1080p ps3 title with incredible amount of details.

[masteratt]

Nick is trying to stir stuff up again.

It's so touching to see him try so hard to make us care.

[Red_Eyes]

We already know the gameplay sucks. We don't need him to try to rub it in our face. Ban his ass.

[VG Aficionado]

Ignore list +1

[ddaryl]

This sixaxis bashing going on in the gaming world is beyond BS. The controller works like a charm if you give it a chance. Games like Motorstorm, Warhawk, and Lair are a hundred times better if you learn to use motion. I have nearly stoped playing GT because it does not support it (I don't currently have a wheel and am waiting for the Blue Tooth one for GT5). Motion is the real deal this generation and everyone had better get used to it or else go out and get a 360. I will continue to interact with my games and praise the developers that embrace the motion controls. I think the best game this gen will be on PS3 and will take advantage of motion, and EYE giving the player the most emersed possible experiance.



I thought Warhawk controled well with the six axis for flying.... but it sucks bad for hovering and vehicle control. There was no way to use the motion control for just flying so I shut it off. I'm not going to sit there and get my ass kicked for weeks while I try to master the control system.

I've hardly used the motion control in any games. I want to use it, but the games I played it was easier to play using the sticks.

[Sephiroth_VII]

I agree. I hope they allow us to enable motion control individually, for every vehicle, with the next update.

[drakkar]

Penny Arcade

"The game is not challenging, it's difficult to play,"

Not to piss in their cornflakes, but it is only difficult because the control scheme is alien to most game players. With this said an option to use the sticks could have remedied such backlash.

[VonGak]

It does scare me that according to IGN Lair is only a tad better than Eragon.

I really had high hopes for this title, perhaps another studio will lease Factor5's engine for a game of epic LotR proportions.

[BruceWayneIII]

It does scare me that according to IGN Lair is only a tad better than Eragon.

I really had high hopes for this title, perhaps another studio will lease Factor5's engine for a game of epic LotR proportions.

I honestly don't think Lair's engine is even remotely close to a licensing deal. Doing that requires a well-thought strategy and design from the very beginning and often requires a separate team dealing with that.

I agree about the scare :) However, I am still going to buy this game. All reviewers don't agree, so there might be some fun for me too. And I simply love the epic music -and dragons :)

[Sephiroth_VII]

I have bought it, and it'll be arriving from eBay any day now. If you guys can hold out for the EU release, I'll give you my impressions first. Hell, if I don't like it, I'll sell it to one of you at half the price.

[cliffbo]

has the new firmware update improved play in Lair?

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-65265.aspx

[BruceWayneIII]

I have bought it, and it'll be arriving from eBay any day now. If you guys can hold out for the EU release, I'll give you my impressions first. Hell, if I don't like it, I'll sell it to one of you at half the price.

:wave:

However, I'd rather prefer that you like the game...

[Shogun042]

great story, not so great gameplay. that about sums it up.

[cliffbo]

wow... people are so down on this game no-one wants to find out if the new firmware update has improved the Sixaxis control!!!

[Fats]

A new firmware update shouldn't be needed to improve this game, they should have got it right the first time. Un-fucking-believable that so many people in the Development team actually played this and some how thought that people would take well to it. :doh:

[cliffbo]

A new firmware update shouldn't be needed to improve this game, they should have got it right the first time. Un-fucking-believable that so many people in the Development team actually played this and some how thought that people would take well to it. :doh:

WOW WOW WOW... that may be the case... but no-one is going to try it?

ps3forums are interested. heres the poll:

http://ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=96410

Yep, definitely able to nail those 180s every time now... I don't know how they did it, but it sure works now.


This also makes perfect sense. This update came out the same day as Lair's street date (not counting the EB/Gamestop deal).

This is why Lair got delayed to Septemper 4th.

IT'S ALL MAKING SENSE NOW!! HOORAY!!

well better controls for lair is good news. hopefully it will get people to stop the whinning.

perhaps they are better PS3 fans

[GTAce]

Now thats cool.
Wasnt there a rumor that the new PS3 controller with rumble would have better SIXAXIS?
So does this thing rumble now with games that have the function? :laugh: j/k.... or... :look:

[Viper]

But what of those that don't have a live Internet connection? Are they stuck with the bad controls until they buy a future game with the firmware upgrade on it? I ask because that concerns a friend of mine who doesn't have a connection.

[masteratt]

Tell your friend "yes you are I'm afraid" and apologise on behalf of Sony and Factor5 (or whoever made Lair).

You might also want to discuss a refund agreement but we are very strict on that.

[GTAce]

You can download it from the net via PC.
And if you dont have a PC (...) ask someone you know.

[Fats]

But what of those that don't have a live Internet connection? Are they stuck with the bad controls until they buy a future game with the firmware upgrade on it? I ask because that concerns a friend of mine who doesn't have a connection.

That's why, to me anyway, that this just doesn't make sense. You need the latest firmware update in order to enjoy improved sixaxis controls? Very odd.

[Shogun042]

That's why, to me anyway, that this just doesn't make sense. You need the latest firmware update in order to enjoy improved sixaxis controls? Very odd.

well the game technically doesn't come out til today anyways.

he can download the update onto a PC then onto a flash drive and install.

[Shadow Voa]

*shakes head* Releasing something unprepared or in this case, barely tested properly is terrible. A patch to fix up their own poor judgment now because the gaming media is telling them how poor their controls were.

Why the hell didnt they do it right in the first place? Fats is right, dont release something that poorly built in terms of handling that it completely gives the game a bad name.

[GTAce]

Yeah i agree but why not be happy NOW were there is a solution?

[OmniCloud]

LMAO!!! THis is the dumbest ISH I've ever seen:lol:

I mean, couldn't they at least asked a few gaming sites to hold off with the official reviews:huh:

I wonder how many sites will do another one?

OK...dummy smacks to Sony aside, this is still good news.

[Viper]

So this is how Sony planned to prove the PS3 is a computer?


*gets hit with tomato*

Geez, who showed up with a rotten tomato just for that?

[OmniCloud]

So this is how Sony planned to prove the PS3 is a computer?


*gets hit with tomato*

Geez, who showed up with a rotten tomato just for that?LMAO...whatever works dammit!!!

Whatever works..

[curryking1]

:lol:

Ya...... weird stuff....

I have a PS3 now yay! *runs off*

[LaLiLuLeLo]

FINALLY.
Sheesh.

[masteratt]

I have a PS3 now yay!
Hey where is the thread?

[curryking1]

I should make a thread? Lol :P

[Fats]

If you don't make a thread, it's a bannable offense.

[curryking1]

Wut no don't ban me! :cry2:

[Coded-Dude]

*sends to band camp*

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I'm sorry curry. But if it's banning someone on dubious reasons, I gotta get my hands dirty. Pity, that you're a victim of circumstance.

So long, mate.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/Lalilulelo/banned-1.gif

[cliffbo]

so has anyone tried it yet!!! look! it's a very simple question... i promise. i think it's not the cleverest idea and i've said i had reservations about Lair... but... but... SOMEONE TELL ME IF IT WORKS!

[dendj55]

Have any of you tried this?

Source (http://threespeech.com/blog/?p=563)

[cliffbo]

Have any of you tried this?

Source (http://threespeech.com/blog/?p=563)

where have you been! yes it's a FACT (in capital letters) it works

[curryking1]

Man, I would love to try that out. I can't wait for lots of games to support it.

[cliffbo]

Man, I would love to try that out. I can't wait for lots of games to support it.

ignore my commendation in the other thread, Curry, buy Warhawk, you will definitely love it

[BruceWayneIII]

Curryking1, buy Warhawk :thumbr:

[frosty]

Why the hell didnt they do it right in the first place? Fats is right, dont release something that poorly built in terms of handling that it completely gives the game a bad name.

Kinda like how Nintendo had to release multiple versions of Twilight Princess because the game would hang up at a certain point? Fact is, bugs sometimes slip through the cracks. this has been happening for a long time and not just to Sony. Though I do agree that they should have delayed the game to coincide with the release of the FW update. Has anyone tried it with warhawk? Not to say the controls were bad in it, but if they are better than it's even cooler.

[curryking1]

I can't play online lol! The internet is going to start going really slow also when all the people start using the reznet :(

I wish I could play it tho w/o the net being so complicated here, I was watching some stuff on Playstation.com, it looks so freaking awesome.

Do any of you hide in the clouds and stuff? Lol! That would be the coolest tactic ever :)

[Viper]

Frosty, bugs are going to happen but completely frikked up controls isn't a bug.

No one is complaining that they released a fix it's the fact they had to release a fix to fix the controls. It's not a bug, it's a fundamental problem with the programming of the controls.

Actually, I applaud them for getting a fix out so quick (though almost too quick :susp: )

[dendj55]

where have you been! yes it's a FACT (in capital letters) it works

To answer your question without Flaming, I have been trying to read through the 110 pages or so on this topic while sifting through the meaningless banter trying to find solid reviews/news and the like.

I do not own this game as of yet and I am getting to many mixed reviews to go out and purchase.

[cliffbo]

To answer your question without Flaming, I have been trying to read through the 110 pages or so on this topic while sifting through the meaningless banter trying to find solid reviews/news and the like.

I do not own this game as of yet and I am getting to many mixed reviews to go out and purchase.

ignore me, i was just playing ;)

by the way, i have an idea for Warhawk. it would be great if there were four randomly generated collectibles that enabled you to disappear from the radar for a minute. it would be great for those sniper moments or hiding behind clouds.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Lair was supposed to be released on the 4th, at the same time as the update. The problem is that some retailers sold their copies early.

Frosty, bugs are going to happen but completely frikked up controls isn't a bug.

No one is complaining that they released a fix it's the fact they had to release a fix to fix the controls. It's not a bug, it's a fundamental problem with the programming of the controls.

Actually, I applaud them for getting a fix out so quick (though almost too quick :susp: )
Have you considered that Factor 5 may have been finishing LAIR while using the enhanced motion control? It would make sense for them to have the update early since it means so much for a motion-only game like theirs.

That also explains why the "fix" came out so quickly.

[warmachine]

Improving the controls and the response time in general is IMHO no bug fixing!
Every game benefits from this update, not only Lair...

Anyways, nice to hear that the motion control now works a little bit better! ^^

[Viper]

Lair was supposed to be released on the 4th, at the same time as the update. The problem is that some retailers sold their copies early.


Have you considered that Factor 5 may have been finishing LAIR while using the enhanced motion control? It would make sense for them to have the update early since it means so much for a motion-only game like theirs.

That also explains why the "fix" came out so quickly.

I wouldn't have a problem with it except for like I said on the previous page. Those without an Internet connection are screwed. Why was the fix not part of the disc itself such as previous updates have been? If this fix was so crucial, they should have been far more prudent in how the game and fix were distributed.

[GTAce]

Theyre not screwed.
You can download the firmwares via PC.
And if you cant load it ask someone i dont see a problem here.

[cliffbo]

I wouldn't have a problem with it except for like I said on the previous page. Those without an Internet connection are screwed. Why was the fix not part of the disc itself such as previous updates have been? If this fix was so crucial, they should have been far more prudent in how the game and fix were distributed.

because the dream is to get every PS3 owner online. Warhawk is a must have title and it's online only, Lair runs badly without the online patch... crafty, i know, but it's a business

[PSXBatou]

Play the game enjoy the massive immersing environments and have fun.. thats the best thing to do. Once the controls are mastered its a great game.

Play = good
Whinging = bad/less play time

[Viper]

Factor 5 finally speaks out.

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=20070905102424500069&releaseId=2005138888000000020735


I think he's digging a ditch personally.

[masteratt]

Ouchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

If I were Factor5 I would change the company name and live in a cave for 10 years.

[cliffbo]

i'd say that was reasonable actually. this augers well for their next title and from reports Lair is bad here and their but not totally awful

[Viper]

Uh, Cliff, Rogue Squadron was a damn good title and very well received with reviewers. He's drawing some kind of analogy there that both were initial system titles but one rocked and others controls like one. Then went on to claim the bad reviews were from hardcore reviewers and that Lair is some kind of casual game. Que el fuck? Casual?

While I agree I do hope they learned from it but they apparently didn't learn form the horrid ground battles on RSIII and given he's love of blaming reviewers for the craptasticness of circumstances in their games, I doubt they'll learn much and continue the blame game.

Sucks something fierce too 'casue I know these guys can do better.

[masteratt]

i'd say that was reasonable actually.
:duh:

Seriously c'mon man.....He made everything he talked about sound bad, I can imagine him sweating and looking into space as he said all those things.

That was simply embarrassing.

[frosty]

Frosty, bugs are going to happen but completely frikked up controls isn't a bug.

I didn't have any problem at all with the controls when I played it at E3. They could have been tighter, but they weren't broken as many seem to think.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Gaming media: Lair sucks.
Jules Eggebrecht: No...you suck.

[cliffbo]

Uh, Cliff, Rogue Squadron was a damn good title and very well received with reviewers. He's drawing some kind of analogy there that both were initial system titles but one rocked and others controls like one. Then went on to claim the bad reviews were from hardcore reviewers and that Lair is some kind of casual game. Que el fuck? Casual?

While I agree I do hope they learned from it but they apparently didn't learn form the horrid ground battles on RSIII and given he's love of blaming reviewers for the craptasticness of circumstances in their games, I doubt they'll learn much and continue the blame game.

Sucks something fierce too 'casue I know these guys can do better.

fair enough. i've had my reservations about this game since the outset and incurred quite a bit of negativity because of it. what amazes me though is that i could see problems in the vids with framerate, graphic anomalies and some physics question (such as the waves that radiate from a ship when you destroy it) i also had reservations about the concept itself. i could also see the possibility of repetitive gameplay. the one thing i didn't see coming was bad motion sensing, although i reckon the patch and the street release date were supposed to redress this. Lair is exactly what i expected, which is why i advocate being honest with yourself, otherwise you risk being very disappointed. RFOM was called out as being a game that was 'put out there to die' that was wrong. Lair on the other hand...

[Viper]

I didn't have any problem at all with the controls when I played it at E3. They could have been tighter, but they weren't broken as many seem to think.

I'll flat out admit, I have yet to play it. But when several reviewers and gamers knock the controls....we have a problem.

[frosty]

Also, IIRC you can request a disc with updates on them from Sony should you not have an internet connection (however, since you can download them to a USB stick from any PC that shouldn't be an issue).

[BruceWayneIII]

The fact that some think there are problems with the motion controls in Lair and others seem to think they are spot on is enough to at least discuss how to review games with new controller technology.

I am still waiting for Lair here in Europe, though..

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I'll flat out admit, I have yet to play it. But when several reviewers and gamers knock the controls....we have a problem.

that's the thing, viper. I picked it up after hearing a lot of skepticism pre-E3 this year, and I'm like, '......okay this is sweet. what's the big fucking deal?'

[Viper]

Also, IIRC you can request a disc with updates on them from Sony should you not have an internet connection (however, since you can download them to a USB stick from any PC that shouldn't be an issue).Again I applaud the ability to quickly access the issue and offer a fix but the fact these steps must even be taken is the problem. As large of a budget they had to play with, this should have been noticed and dealt with long ago.

The fact that some think there are problems with the motion controls in Lair and others seem to think they are spot on is enough to at least discuss how to review games with new controller technology.

I am still waiting for Lair here in Europe, though..
Other PS3 and Wii titles haven't had this kind of issue at least not to this degree. This also raises the same question again as to why analog sticks weren't offered. I promise you the play testing had the same divide the consumers/reviewers are having so something should have been done about it.

that's the thing, viper. I picked it up after hearing a lot of skepticism pre-E3 this year, and I'm like, '......okay this is sweet. what's the big fucking deal?'
I brought up a question before btu obviously no way any of us could answer it and it was based on this huge rift between the loves/hates regarding the control......could some copies have shipped with the fix pre-installed and some shipped flawed?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I doubt it. I bought it on day one so that just wouldn't make sense on a production level.

[Viper]

I doubt it. I bought it on day one so that just wouldn't make sense on a production level.

Sure it could. Production isn't a single batch and even day one shipment could contain a recent batch run.

Many patches and fixes get installed on discs and if the update and game were supposed to be a package of sorts, it's possible some discs went to press in time to have the patch added.


Let me ask this, if a patch is already installed via a game disc, can you download and install the patch again or will it tell you it's already installed?

[frosty]

It isn't a patch, it's a firmware update for the PS3. So lair doesn't have any idea it's even been tweaked. By the same logic all PS3 games should now have enhanced motion control being that the fix was done at the system level.

[cliffbo]

It isn't a patch, it's a firmware update for the PS3. So lair doesn't have any idea it's even been tweaked. By the same logic all PS3 games should now have enhanced motion control being that the fix was done at the system level.

yep i was thinking the same thing. has warhawk improved?

[Epix]

yep i was thinking the same thing. has warhawk improved?
I'm not sure about the motion controls but it sure does boot up a hell of a lot faster. Even the menu transitions are much faster. :thumbl:

[cliffbo]

Lair's secret "Hot Coffee" code is exactly what it sounds like

Posted Sep 5th 2007 5:15PM by Andrew Yoon
Filed under: Community
Did you know that Lair has a secret "Hot Coffee" code? Inspired by the controversy sparked by Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Factor 5 has included a video in the game that lampoons the ESRB's overly harsh decision. You can experience it for yourself by inputting code 686F7420636F66666565 (case sensitive) into the game. Or, you can take the lazy way out, and watch after the cut.

vid:

http://www.gametab.com/news/1028098/

[Viper]

I was thinking "Ooh, this ought to be good." It's almost a metaphor for the game as the delivery didn't do justice to the expectations.

[GTAce]

:lol: Funny imo.

[Jasonps3]

Lair developer flies to its defence
Wednesday 5-Sep-2007 10:25 PM But still admits that bloody dragon doesn't always do what it's told

It hasn't even gone on sale yet, but Lair developer, Factor 5, has already started passing the buck for why Lair was utterly panned.

Developers usually keep quiet when the shit hits the fan, so we're mildly surprised to say the least. In an interview with MTV's GameFile, director Julian Eggebrecht first announced that the whole project was cursed from the start, before excusing Lair's faults as not entirely their own. First off the bat, the fact that developing for PS3 isn't like painting by numbers.

"That is exactly the kick of creating a first-year game: exploring the not-yet-finished hardware and growing the technology while the hardware is coming together.

Advertisement:
"I think both Rogue Leader and Lair gave a good stab at poking into the depths of the systems for such early titles, and from that you have a second-generation growth opportunity that surpasses most developers that jump onto the bandwagon later."

We're not saying that developing for new hardware isn't tricky; but "a good stab" wasn't expected from a game with so much hype or time spent in development. Sony clearly don't consider the challenging nature of the hardware to be a problem. Maybe, Eggebrecht suggests, it panned because of reviewers' conservatism. Yep, all of them.

"The Sixaxis motion control itself feels a lot more organic and free-form than the rigid controls of other flight games and does much better for casual players, as we saw in focus tests. It does seem to alienate some reviewers who are at the top of the hard-core crowd and seem to have a passionate hate for all things motion."

The killer, however, came when pressed on how often he could pull off a 180 with the much-slated vertical flick of the pad. "About eight out of 10," he revealed, before trying to justify it with, "Which is the same ratio that I get in Wii Sports tennis when I try to do a backspin."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=171485

[GTAce]

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showpost.php?p=1672851&postcount=2318

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Just beat it. I'll have a review up sometime tomorrow morning.

[FLCL]

It really seems a matter of taste

Game Informer review is up, the first reviewer didn't like it a lot giving it 7.25 the second opinion was much better he gave it 8

Review

FLYING WITH CLIPPED WINGS

In The Lord of the Rings’ battle of Helm’s Deep, what if it wasn’t Gandalf and his cavalry that showed up to save the day, but rather one lone dragon and his rider? Most of the wars in Lair unfold with huge armies banging on castle gates, only to be foiled by a fire-breathing demon from the skies. Now, this may sound like the ultimate adventure – a scenario that every nerd across the globe has dreamed at least once. Unfortunately, in Lair’s case, the amazing sensation of flying saddleback on a death-dealing dragon is greatly marred by the wobbly motion-based controls.

As it turns out, Factor 5 knew that players would have difficulty controlling these dragons, which is evidenced in painfully slow speed (hot air balloons may drift faster), and the skill-stealing lock-on targeting system. If you hold down the lock-on button, you will not only establish a sure fire hit on your closest adversary, you will swirl and bank with it without having to adjust your aim. At this point, you just have to jam on the fire button to mow down the attacker. Hit auto-target button again, and the next opponent will suffer a quick death – a death that always felt cheap to me. It’s borderline god mode.

Where Lair lacks any form of grace in its flight or intensity in its firefights, it does set the stage for battles that are the very definition of epic. As catapults pound castle walls, and thousands of soldiers collide on the battlefield, the sky is a flurry of dragons spewing fire and ice. What it all boils down to, however, is you feeling foolish to be a part of these epic events – mostly because a dragon that flew this poorly would never be allowed to participate in battle, it would be back in the village pulling a plow in the fields, or doing stupid tricks for scraps at the bar.

There’s a hint of Rogue Squadron (Factor 5’s most famed work) in Lair’s blood, but it mostly comes out in the soundtrack and the mission structuring. The Zen of shooting down TIE Fighters is sadly nowhere to be found, which is a shame because you can clearly see that the potential is there. Without a workable control scheme (standard analog movement is not an option), I fear most people will find themselves flustered beyond belief with the game like I was.

CONCEPT:
The creators of Star Wars: Rogue Squadron show us that dragons are not nearly as cool as X-Wings
GRAPHICS:
The battles span as far as the eye can see, and the high level of detail (especially when viewed in native 1080p) never ceases to amaze
SOUND:
The pulse pounding score oddly sounds like it belongs in Star Wars, but definitely gets the blood pumping. This is also one of the few games out there to support 7.1 surround sound
PLAYABILITY:
This is where Lair plummets. The motion-based controls just don’t work as well as they need to for an intense aerial combat game
ENTERTAINMENT:
Lair’s disappointing critical path comes to an end at approximately six to eight hours, but getting all the gold medals will take some time
REPLAY:
Moderate
Score: 7.25

Second opinion

As a fulfillment of childhood dragon-flying fantasies, Lair triumphs through its phenomenally huge conflicts and vicious vertigo-inducing midair duels. Your dragon is like a nuclear bomb in a knife fight, capable of turning the tide in a conflict of thousands. Your score is actually the tonnage of destruction left behind in the wake of your passing. Variety fills the gameplay experience, from a remarkably well thought out switch-up of mission styles to the evocative orchestral score that weaves its way through the game. This variety extends to the numerous combat moves available in a fight – enough to offer excitement in what is otherwise a relatively simple gameplay mechanic. I’m not a fan of the color palette for the game, filled as it is with so many earthy hues that objects just don’t stand out on the screen at times. While the motion controls for flight are unique, they’re also the weakest aspect of the title – it was several hours into the game before I felt like I had a firm handle on moving around. Even so, Rogue Squadron fans would know this was a Factor 5 game without seeing the logo – it’s not the longest ride, but you’ll be coming back again and again for those brief flashes of gameplay brilliance.
Score: 8

http://www.gameinformer.com/Games/Review/200709/R07.0904.1533.57252.htm

in anyway i think the game should at least 7, scoring it below the 50% is just unfair, neglecting to give any credits to its presentation, graphics, soundtrack and originality, there are some of us who are willing to practice the controls

[section]

It mostly boils down to the fact you are not allowed to like Sixaxis or PS3 altogether. And motion sensor control is good when it goes with Wii.

:moon:

But surprisingly high score considering almost all others are giving LAIR a 6 at highest.

[the poe collector]

I'm still not sure about it. There's a huge difference between 7.25 and 8. I mean, it's almost a whole point!

Now if the first reviewer had just given it a 7.45 instead of being a biased fanboy I wouldn't have any doubts.

[VG Aficionado]

Who can you trust except yourself anyway. Too bad there might not be a downloadable demo for a while.

[makeitlookreal]

Instead of a demo they need to focus on a patch that would fix the control problems.

[evillion]

just got Lair today. gotta say i absolutely love this game! for some reason i instantly picked up the control as if i've played it before. it really felt natural and smooth although i sitll need to perfect the turns. the 180 thingy is spot on for me, i seriously dont get why some people are having troubles though. i was suprised it all turned out so great coz i was expecting issues and wat not. the graphics is amazing! although the enemy AI do need some more work. the sound is fantastic it brings me right into it. only complain so far is that the missions are little too short, im on 4th mission now and it's been really enjoyable. how many missions are there anyone know?

[VG Aficionado]

Some people have trouble with the controls and others don't. Just don't believe anyone until you play it.

[makeitlookreal]

I think there are enough people having problems with the controls that it proves there is at least a problem of some sort. Perhaps the problem is not a gigantic one, but I think it is significant. I think an optional patch that would allow options to refine the six axis controls would be a good idea.

[Passive]

or a patch to be able to steer with the sicks would be a good way to go

[makeitlookreal]

I totally agree. A patch that would allow you to steer with the sticks would be a great idea.

[section]

...steer with the sicksThem throwing up all over the car especially in tight corners :D

Doing 180 degree turns would be out of the question because vomit in a plane's cockpit is a big nono.

[cliffbo]

it's nonsense to want them to patch this so that you can use it with the analogue still, hell why not get a screwdriver and take motion sensing out?! Go play a Wii title without using it. the argument should be that they haven't implemented it properly. if no-one gets used tp using motion sensing and everyone complains about it, the devs won't use it fully and it might as well not be there.

[cliffbo]

Sony didn't know about it?

Sony enthused by Lair PSP connectivity
Posted on September 6th, 2007 at 09:34 EDT

Sony has expressed its interest in the PlayStation 3-PlayStation Portable connectivity present in Lair, according to website Pocket Gamer.

The PSP has already had some PS3 interactivity, demonstrated in the rear-view mirror functionality in Gran Turismo. But, the ability to download and play a game on the PSP via the PS3 is a new feature for the Sony consoles.

In Lair, all the processing and such is done on the PS3, while the PSP sends control signals, and receives video signal. So, although the graphics might be downgraded somewhat, some people may prefer the controls.

A Sony technical insider commented: "It's a nice start. Over time, I'm sure we'll have more advanced features."

As a further example, such functionality could be used to control a game with the PSP that’s being played on the PS3, with an inventory option displayed on the handheld’s LCD screen. Similar controls could also be employed by a second player using a Sixaxis to support a friend. Additionally, mini-games could be downloaded to your PSP to play on the go.

Sounds good, no? Well yes…but then it did when the GameCube and Gameboy Advance was doing all this a few years ago, and is noted by some people to be one of the reasons why the GameCube ended up fighting for second place with the Xbox while the PS2 was storming ahead.

Let’s hope Sony stops repeating Nintendo’s mistakes.

http://www.psu.com/Sony-enthused-by-Lair-PSP-connectivity-News--a0001218-p0.php

[VG Aficionado]

Wow, that's one poorly written and documented article.

[GTAce]

The PSP has already had some PS3 interactivity, demonstrated in the rear-view mirror functionality in Gran Turismo
It was planned for F1...

Sounds good, no? Well yes…but then it did when the GameCube and Gameboy Advance was doing all this a few years ago, and is noted by some people to be one of the reasons why the GameCube ended up fighting for second place with the Xbox while the PS2 was storming ahead.
You can play NGC games on a GBA? LOL

[Segitz]

It was planned for F1...


You can play NGC games on a GBA? LOL

No, there were some games, were you could use the GBA as a gamepad. In Windwaker this was possible I think, but not much more.

The problems were plentyfold. Not one single third party game supported it, it was not wireless and never gave you any sort of added feature really (the rearview mirror in F1 is also something completely idiotic imho!)

[Viper]

Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles used it (I'm pretty sure it did, I think) but overall the whole idea sucked yards of wang. A definite low point for fans since that was their big thing that year.

[frosty]

It could be used in, say a football game where you can choose plays without the other team seeing you, or to play lair from anywhere in the world, or to control Metal Gear MKII, the possibilities are endless really. Imagine being able to play UT3 and steer the redeemer with the PSP while still being able to see and control your character with the sixaxis.

[cliffbo]

this is entirely different to anything Nintendo did. this is running a PS3 game on a PSP without any modification. the idea that it will fail is absolutely stupid. it's there, that's all, if it doesn't get used who cares?

[cliffbo]

It could be used in, say a football game where you can choose plays without the other team seeing you, or to play lair from anywhere in the world, or to control Metal Gear MKII, the possibilities are endless really. Imagine being able to play UT3 and steer the redeemer with the PSP while still being able to see and control your character with the sixaxis.

yep, stats for football and strategies would be a great use for it. all the stats in RPGs is another. there are many uses for it, but games won't stand or fall depending on it. i can't believe the spin that article put on it... it's friggin amazing that Lair runs on a PSP...

i can feel it in the air: here we go again. 'Sony copied the idea' it's really getting quite tiresome

[Viper]

The football play was either used, or at least they wanted to do it, on the Sega Dreamcast with the VMU thing in the controllers.

Um, Cliff, it's not running on the PSP, it's the PS3 using the PSP screen for a monitor and using the PSP buttons as an external control input. I'm not knocking the feature, just making sure you understand the PSP isn't running Lair itself.

Wow, who said anything about Sony copying? It was simply brought up which similar features have been tried in the past.



Frosty, how would your UT3 idea work? Would you need to put down the 6ax, and pick up the PSP to guide the Redeemer?

Also, if the PSP will only display what is being displayed (or would be displayed) on your TV, then anything that would be best if hidden like football plays won't work.

[cliffbo]

Um, Cliff, it's not running on the PSP, it's the PS3 using the PSP screen for a monitor and using the PSP buttons as an external control input. I'm not knocking the feature, just making sure you understand the PSP isn't running Lair itself.

come on Viper, do you really think i'm that stupid? i sometimes wonder if people are actually taking notice of what i say... only a total moron would think that the PSP could actually run the game. it is running on the PSP in the sense that you can see it on the screen, that's what i meant. we've actually discussed this ages ago with most people disagreeing with me that it's possible... give me some credit fella :)

as far as the copying is concerned i was referring to the net at large.

[venomv]

I think there are enough people having problems with the controls that it proves there is at least a problem of some sort. Perhaps the problem is not a gigantic one, but I think it is significant. I think an optional patch that would allow options to refine the six axis controls would be a good idea.

No you have it backwards, there rae enought people that can use them just fine that proves there is nothing really wrong with the controls people just have some trouble getting used to using them. Just like tons of people had trouble with thumbsticks when they first came out, myself included....

And why should a huge reptile turn on a dime anyway?

[section]

only a total moron would think that the PSP could actually run the gameThere was one guy on official PS forums who insisted just on this idea :D

Although he claimed "it's impossible for PSP to run LAIR because it hasn't got cell processor" lol

[cliffbo]

There was one guy on official PS forums who insisted just on this idea :D

Although he claimed "it's impossible for PSP to run LAIR because it hasn't got cell processor" lol

lol... it's just that some people can't get their heads around it. it's only using the PSP as your telly and the controller at the same time... it's simple really, but for some reason some people think there has to be an actual physical program running on the PSP. this is why i had so much trouble way back when some of us were arguing there was no reason why it wasn't possible

[Segitz]

It could be used in, say a football game where you can choose plays without the other team seeing you, or to play lair from anywhere in the world, or to control Metal Gear MKII, the possibilities are endless really. Imagine being able to play UT3 and steer the redeemer with the PSP while still being able to see and control your character with the sixaxis.

If you had 4 arms and hands maybe^^

The problem here is, that you have to switch between input devices, which is NEVER a good idea. Noone has ever done it, because it just sucks. I am already pissed at the Wii, that I have to attach and detach the Nunchuck for every second game there is.


Some people just don't understand what remote play is... It is essentially what the name suggests... Remote Play. Not local play :P

[Shogun042]

i still don't have 1.92, so i'm going to play a few missions before i download the update, then download the update to see how big of a difference it is.

[-gin-]

has anyone here tried running lair on the psp remotely, say, from your car? miles away from home? Im intrested in how it performs

[Red_Eyes]

has anyone here tried running lair on the psp remotely, say, from your car? miles away from home? Im intrested in how it performs
Maybe not so well for a game like Lair. But for an RPG like FF13, it will perform greatly.

[Red_Eyes]

I think there are enough people having problems with the controls that it proves there is at least a problem of some sort. Perhaps the problem is not a gigantic one, but I think it is significant. I think an optional patch that would allow options to refine the six axis controls would be a good idea.
Maybe those people are just too lazy to wave their arms around properly?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Review should be up soon. It's done, just has to be proof read by some of the other guys.

[Sephiroth_VII]

"Heads to the staff forum to read the review"

[BruceWayneIII]

"Not heading to the staff forum to read the review"

[Viper]

"Edited the review in the staff forum"

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Lair Reviewed. (http://psinsider.e-mpire.com/index.php?categoryid=17&m_articles_articleid=923)

[BruceWayneIII]

EDIT: followed the link...

[Viper]

"Reformatted the review on the site"

[masteratt]

I never got why we had to click the review link on the front page and then click another link leading to the review?

[Viper]

Only news articles can be displayed in the main column. Sucks, we know.

[Fats]

Spot on LaLi, I was expecting you to go a tad fanboyistic on our asses but you played it cool and did us proud.

[gibmonster]

Got this game last monday, and though it has some problems it really is a fun game to play. I love the level where you invade the Mokai and blow up their buildings. So much fun. Picking big things up and throwing em down on people is really satisfying.

I hope they make a sequel with some online modes. Like dragon vs dragon or modes where you try to cause as much shit as possible.

If you have played Drakengard or Panzer Dragoon Orta (I have both) and like either one or both of em. Pick this one up and give it a go. This, in my opinion, shits on those games and I love PDO...Drakengard...not so much.

[OmniCloud]

I'll be picking up Lair as soon as I finish HS...

GOtta say...Warhawk has been consuming too much PS3 time:-(

[FLCL]

I've got the game, i've been playing it for a while and i'm loving every second of it

I'm playing it in 1080p and it's shockingly impressive, amazing looking game, very artistic like SOC, there are some frame rate problems but only in some levels and you get used to it, many levels are very smooth, everything else a masterpiece

As for the controls i went back and finished all the tutorials before playing the first level, and now i show off the levels to my girl & friends in a straight flawless play through and they walk away stunned, it's elegant, very easy and fun once you get used to it, in fact i suck with the psp analog flying..really responsive and unique controls, now i enjoy collecting the medals and put simply the reviews doesn't make sense

all the problems are easily forgiven with such impressive and ambitious game, just like morrowind, gta and SOC and besides there is always patches

anyway you can read my detailed review here http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=lair&thread.id=11405 a word of warning i'm very pissed at the reviewers and it shows :devious:

[evillion]

I've got the game, i've been playing it for a while and i'm loving every second of it

I'm playing it in 1080p and it's shockingly impressive, amazing looking game, very artistic like SOC, there are some frame rate problems but only in some levels and you get used to it, many levels are very smooth, everything else a masterpiece

As for the controls i went back and finished all the tutorials before playing the first level, and now i show off the levels to my girl & friends in a straight flawless play through and they walk away stunned, it's elegant, very easy and fun once you get used to it, in fact i suck with the psp analog flying..really responsive and unique controls, now i enjoy collecting the medals and put simply the reviews don't make sense

all the problems are easily forgiven with such impressive and ambitious game, just like morrowind, gta and SOC and besides there is always patches

anyway you can read my detailed review here http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=lair&thread.id=11405 a word of warning i'm very pissed at the reviewers and it shows :devious:
nice to hear someone's playing it @ 1080p. can you like post a pic of lair on your tv please? really wanna c how good it looks.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

A shitty picture (no matter how well shot) of a tv, then posted on the internet at 72 dpi isn't going to relate how it actually looks man. :-/

[evillion]

A shitty picture (no matter how well shot) of a tv, then posted on the internet at 72 dpi isn't going to relate how it actually looks man. :-/
true indeed, but i still would love to c it jsut for the heck of it.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Well, use your imagination and you can go anywhere!

[Nameless]

:lol:

[Passive]

Close your eyes and pretend it's all a bad dream. That's how i get by

[flipflop]

Wow, that's one poorly written and documented article.
PSU are one awful horrible little site. For quite some time have been very strangely anti PS3.

[FLCL]

PSU are one awful horrible little site. For quite some time have been very strangely anti PS3.

and they gave lair a very good review?

Lair is definitely a stupendous game with astonishing gameplay, beautiful graphics, and a soothing soundtrack. The only thing that dents Lair from becoming all that it potentially could have been is definitely the temperate replayability that arises from the linear gameplay. Despite all these issues, the game inculcates a sense of visceral excitement to anyone who gets his/her hands on it.

http://www.psu.com/Lair-Review--a0001164-p0.php

in my opinion a very fair review around

[section]

^^Was about to write the same as FLCL :)

dunno if the review is FAIR but they are definitely not anti-PS3 :D

[flipflop]

and they gave lair a very good review?




in my opinion a very fair review around
Probably worded it wrong. Alot of what they post is intended to get hits to the site by being controversial. A bit like Kotaku. Just ignore my post.:closed:

[NeoPlayStation]

Lair Review (Famitsu):
9/7/8/9

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8074890&postcount=1

[VG Aficionado]

That's a lot better than most reviews out there. I wonder how it could sell in Japan, although I don't expect it to be a huge hit.

[masteratt]

I guess they added gameplay to the Japanese version.
Hahaha.

I think Famitsu are being a bit generous.
Wish someone would translate what the review says.

[FLCL]

Hahaha.

I think Famitsu are being a bit generous.
Wish someone would translate what the review says.

yes thats one sensible review, as you can the scores are ranging between 7 and 9 which reflects how lair is not for everyone but definitely offer a lot for those patient enough to learn the new controls, when mario 64 first came out the new obliged analog controls were also intimidating ironically mario 64 also had gesture moves and were difficult to pull out

the game is good despite what the unforgiving reviews make you think, play gave it 90% while game informer gave it both 7.25 and 8, PSU like it a lot and there are so many positive user reviews all over the web, check amazon and the playstation forums everybody is pissed for the low scores

every game have some issues or bugs hell even halo 3 single player is short, with jaggies and some slow down, what matters is the whole and in that case lair is a sweet and original game, the control are excellent once you learn them and you get used to the few frame rate drops otherwise the graphics are simply stunning and the popup minimal ign said "the game doesn’t look in motion" which is simply BS and biased, Morrowind got the GOTY award while being the most bug infested game of all time some bugs were so bad you couldn’t continue your 40hours long journey

i'm still playing since it come out, playing for the gold medal is very fun & rewarding and in fact i'm loving the controls you just need to learn them, finish all the tutorials and not be hectic while playing it

a funny comment by 1up during the podcast discussion with Julian, the reviewer said "in the third level i kept trying to save the grain boats but they kept being shot down, eventually at one point i figured out it's the game fault and not my fault as player" to me this is hilarious since every time i play this level i get a Gold medal which requires me to save every boat, finish the level in a time limit, collect a massive score and not loose a single life... so you tell me bad game or bad reviewers who are so used to play fast first person shooters that they suck at anything new and innovative?

too bad many of you are missing out, many in the forum loved super rub a duck despite the reviews, lair is the same, i'm hoping Sony will release a demo so you get to judge it for yourself...Lair doesn't deserve to be scored below 8

[KRA]

yes thats one sensible review, as you can the scores are ranging between 7 and 9 which reflects that lair is not for all but definitely offer a lot for those willing to learn the new controls, when mario 64 first came out the new obliged analog controls were also intimidating ironically mario 64 also had gesture moves and were difficult to pull out

the game is good despite what the unforgiving reviews make you think, play gave it 90% while game informer gave it both 7.25 and 8, PSU like it a lot and there are so many positive user reviews all over the web, check amazon and the playstation forums everybody is pissed for the low scores

every game have some issues or bugs hell even halo 3 single player is short, with jaggies and some slow down, what matters is the whole and in that case lair is a sweet and original game, the control are excellent once you learn them and you get used to the few frame rate drops otherwise the graphics are simply stunning and the popup minimal ign said "the game doesn’t look in motion" which is simply BS and biased, as for the occasional bugs Morrowind got the GOTY award while being the most bug infested game of all time some bugs were so bad you couldn’t continue your 40hours long journey

i'm still playing since it come out, playing for the gold medal is very fun & rewarding and in fact i'm loving the controls you just need to learn them, finish all the tutorials and not be hectic while playing it

too bad many of you are missing out, many in the forum loved super rub a duck despite the reviews, lair is the same, i'm hoping Sony will release a demo so you get to judge it for yourself...Lair doesn't deserve to be scored below 8

as i woudn't mind learning controls.
i hate frame issues with games.
so i probably will never get lair in my hands as i can't spend money that easlly.
anyway i think that factor5 was to ambitious.
they should stick with 720p.
the game could only benefit from that kind of decision.
but that's just my opinion :)

[Segitz]

I will surely rent it...

I am still having higher hopes for this game. I mean, a rental costs me not much money, so not much is lost in the end. If the controls work, I can learn them, and I think, they are working, else the good reviews would have simply been wrong!

Lair comes to EU in two or three weeks though

[Cyrus]

I think I saw a release list somewhere where it said Lair had been moved to 14 November or something like that.. dunno if the list was correct or not.

I will still definitely buy it. If only for the music and nothing else. I think the game has potential to be very good but if not, at least the music makes it worth the purchase. :p

[LaLiLuLeLo]

It's a good game. It's not amazing and has some flaws, but dammit it's not a 4/10 game by any means. Good 7/10, could be an 8 if not for a few bugs you might encounter.

[Cyrus]

Yeh, I read your review and that's one of the reasons I still think after those 4's and 5's that it might still be a good game overall.

[bilbobob007]

Help. according to play the euro release is now another month away. Does anyone know if i buy this from america if it will have any problems on a ps3 bought in england. I'm so sick of waiting. enough.

[Sephiroth_VII]

All PS3 games are region-free, so you won't have any problems.

[FLCL]

Help. according to play the euro release is now another month away. Does anyone know if i buy this from asmerica if it will have any problems on a ps3 bought in england. I'm so sick of waiting. enough.

I'm playing the US version on my Euro ps3 right now,in HD there are no problems at all however playing in 576p the cut scenes will stutter a little

[bilbobob007]

I'm playing the US version on my Euro ps3 right now,in HD there are no problems at all however playing in 576p the cut scenes will stutter a little

HD is no problem to me. Just wanted to check thank you. I know they are all suppose to be region free ect but does not hurt to see if anyone has had any issues. Can i ask did you purchase it off the net. If so where from. I have seen it on amazon.com. Wondered if there was anywhere cheaper?

23:38 pm Just discovered i cannot get it from Amazon. Great. Anybody?

[AC!D]

Well i believed the 9.7 hype about Halo and got burned so now im doing the opposite and pre ordering Lair!

[FLCL]

HD is no problem to me. Just wanted to check thank you. I know they are all suppose to be region free ect but does not hurt to see if anyone has had any issues. Can i ask did you purchase it off the net. If so where from. I have seen it on amazon.com. Wondered if there was anywhere cheaper?

23:38 pm Just discovered i cannot get it from Amazon. Great. Anybody?

i got it through a local importer

[Red_Eyes]

Famitsu:

Rise from Lair (PS3, Sony): 9, 7, 8, 9 - (33/40)IGN probably typed up their Lair review on their brand new free laptops from Microsoft.

And the interesting thing is...

RISE FROM LAIR (PS3): 9, 7, 8, 9 (33/40)
PGR4 (360): 9, 8, 8, 8 (33/40)

[Viper]

IGN probably typed up their Lair review on their brand new free laptops from Microsoft.

And the interesting thing is...

Or maybe Famitsu typed up their Lair review on their brand new free Vaio laptops from Sony.


Just playing parity, dude.

[Bsack]

That was a stupid statement Red_Eyes.

[Fats]

Yeah, I've seen him come out with quite a few of them to be honest.

[Red_Eyes]

That was a stupid statement Red_Eyes.
Did you typed that up with your free laptop from Viper?:whip:

You need to have a sense of humor.

[Bsack]

I worked graveyard, so my sense of humor is gone until I wake up. My bad.

[Viper]

I would have laughed if you hadn't tried to justify it with the other review scores below it.

[Segitz]

Well, the difference is, we KNOW MS does this stuff and got flak for it, and Sony did not (at least noone said something about it yet).

I find it rather strange, that Famitsu rated it that good. Maybe F5 changed the controls on the japanese version (analogue option?), or they could just play :D

And the 7 is off a bit with the others, maybe he wasn't as able to learn the controls as well as the others (or he "only" got a Celeron notebook instead of a Core2Duo^^)

[section]

FFS, it's multi billion dollar business and both Sony and MS are known for bribing the journalists, I would guess it's easier for both to do it on their own turf.

Too bad so many westerners are only/mostly seeing the results on IGN and like though.

[FLCL]

Julian Eggebrech defending Lair, he mentions the ps3 potential again

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/679907/Lair_Director_Responds_to_Critics.html

[cliffbo]

looks like Japan like Lair:

PS3 title takes number seven spot on first week in the charts

Sony's PlayStation 3 title Lair has entered the Japanese software chart at number 7, selling 22,000 units in its first week of release, according to the latest data from Media Create.

Top of the chart for the sales week ending October 14 was DS title Nishimura Kyotarou Suspense Detective Series: Deadly Intent, another new entry, that sold 61,000 copies.

Project Gotham Racing 4 entered the chart at number 25, and was the only Xbox 360 title to feature in the top 30, following Halo 3's earlier positive showing.

The full top ten is as follows:

01. DS Nishimura Kyotarou Suspense Detective Series: Deadly Intent (DS)

02. Dragon Ball Z: Sparking! Meteor (PS2)

03. Gundam Battle Chronicle (PSP)

04. Pokémon Mysterious Dungeon: Time Expedition Party (DS)

05. Arcana Heart (PS2)

06. Pokémon Mysterious Dungeon: Shadow Expedition Party (DS)

07. Lair (PS3)

08. Archaic Sealed Heat (DS)

09. Kanji Test 2 (DS)

10. Flash Focus: Vision Training in Minutes a Day (DS)
Related Information

http://www.gametab.com/news/1077005/

[curryking1]

The crap?

Japan is purchasing Lair... The games below it aren't on their first week of releases I assume then.

[VG Aficionado]

22K units is not that remarkable in Japan, but it certainly could have been worse. It should at least end up selling 500K worldwide, although I don't think that will be enough to make it profitable.

[bilbobob007]

Well I would like the chance to either love or hate Lair. But someone keeps moving the release date in eu back again.

[yankeefan06]

I finally rented this game a few days ago. After finally sitting down and playing it for a few days, in my opinion, the production values are the only thing this game has going for it. Sure, it looks amazing, but it doesn't feel natural to play this game. I think more should have been done to make the gameplay solid. Now, I'm glad I didn't spend the $50-$60 on it.

[EvilTaru]

I finally rented this game a few days ago. After finally sitting down and playing it for a few days, in my opinion, the production values are the only thing this game has going for it. Sure, it looks amazing, but it doesn't feel natural to play this game. I think more should have been done to make the gameplay solid. Now, I'm glad I didn't spend the $50-$60 on it.

The game looks great, but I guess the gameplay just wasn't developed enough, it's not broken per se, there just wasn't alot to do and what you get to do as a player just wasn't particularly exciting after awhile, things like take out cannons, bombing runs, take out enemy dragons, the way everything was set up just lacks that intensity, it made me want to get them out of the way instead of wanting more.

[yankeefan06]

The game looks great, but I guess the gameplay just wasn't developed enough, it's not broken per se, there just wasn't alot to do and what you get to do as a player just wasn't particularly exciting after awhile, things like take out cannons, bombing runs, take out enemy dragons, the way everything was set up just lacks that intensity, it made me want to get them out of the way instead of wanting more.

Right, and I agree. There wasn't really a lot to keep you coming back. It had so much potential, but I felt it was a let down.

[curryking1]

I still strongly believe that Factor 5 made the mistake in assuming a dragon can play exactly like an X-Wing and that's where they screwed up.

A dragon is a mythical lizard. It should be tearing things apart with it's hands, climbing onto towers, landing on and ripping wooden structures to pieces. It doesn't make any sort of sense to have a creature shooting fireballs at a rate of 5 per second or something and have them launch infinitely far.

Completely unnatural, a dragon should act like an animal, not a spaceship.

[masteratt]

Completely unnatural, a dragon should act like an animal, not a spaceship.
That made me chuckle.

Yeah X-Wing with dragon skins is what I've been hearing as well.
And it feeling like flying through a month old cow shit.

My interest for this game plummeted so there is no way I'll get it now.....I don't even know why I click the thread anymore, my bad.
Hey at least I got a chuckle out of it :p

[EvilTaru]

I still strongly believe that Factor 5 made the mistake in assuming a dragon can play exactly like an X-Wing and that's where they screwed up.

A dragon is a mythical lizard. It should be tearing things apart with it's hands, climbing onto towers, landing on and ripping wooden structures to pieces. It doesn't make any sort of sense to have a creature shooting fireballs at a rate of 5 per second or something and have them launch infinitely far.

Completely unnatural, a dragon should act like an animal, not a spaceship.

The problem with Lair was that Factor 5 thought X-wing era gameplay (taking down tie fighters as a dragon, bombing runs as a dragon, taking down AT-AT walker with tow cables as a dragon) would be fun in 2007, as cool as dragons are, you can't play AS a dragon, dragons are not fun to play AS, not really, you have to play as a character controlling a dragon and there has to be time on AND off the dragon otherwise the gameplay will get stale which it did, probably why Warhawk as a single player game didn't work and ended up as a multi-player online only title.

They just didn't spend enough time figuring out HOW exactly the gameplay should be designed. Flying around on a dragon is great, but how one creates a quality gameplay experience around that was what Factor 5 failed at. I'm not even sure if X-wing was all that fun back when I was playing it, Rogue Squadron sure as hell wasn't, frankly I didn't like shadow of the empire at all, and I think that's the problem, they're employing gameplay designs that just aren't fun by today's standards.

What they needed to build wasn't RS with dragons, it wasn't even some type of soft RTS with the player controlling a dragon, it needed to be a HARDCORE EPIC ACTION-ADVENTURE GAME, with giant bosses that lets you attack with your dragon while letting you jump on as a character to take out certain weak spots, with puzzles, with platforming, it would only work as something like that and to make something like that is just fucking super ambitious, that's like a next-gen Zelda with dragons and even Zelda will never be as ambitious as that.

[Shadow Voa]

Lair 2?

[curryking1]

For the love of god no, and definitely not if it's remotely like the first.

Like EvilTaru said, it needed to be a hardcore epic action adventure game, not X-Wing Dragon.

If anything, to be safe, I want Factor 5 to simply make a Star Wars game. For me it'd be good because I haven't played a single Star Wars flight game by them. Preferably just start at A New Hope and make a new trilogy lol.

[EvilTaru]

For the love of god no, and definitely not if it's remotely like the first.

Like EvilTaru said, it needed to be a hardcore epic action adventure game, not X-Wing Dragon.

If anything, to be safe, I want Factor 5 to simply make a Star Wars game. For me it'd be good because I haven't played a single Star Wars flight game by them. Preferably just start at A New Hope and make a new trilogy lol.

LOL.

If you don't want another Lair why would you want to play another Star Wars flight game by Factor 5? There's no difference between the two, a next-gen RS will just be another Lair, only lamer.

The gaming community as a whole is better off if Factor 5 don't waste a couple of years of their time to pump out yet another RS game.

Factor 5 has already milked RS to death.

The problem is they've been playing it safe for YEARS in terms of gameplay design, because of that they got burned BIG TIME when they're making Lair, being unable to introduce fresh gameplay mechanics, and if they don't evolve now they'll become irrelevant. They simply need to do something fresh gameplay-wise with their engine, or evolve Lair in a significant way if that's even possible. It's not safe for them to remain stagnant by making the same shit over and over again, not after Lair, it's clear that RS-style gameplay is totally outdated and is not going to be well received.

[curryking1]

Maybe they can try another flight game that is not Rogue Squadron then? I would definitely assume that they've lost a good bit of confidence both from within and from the outside, so if I had to choose for them I'd make them go back to something they've done and at least know in the slightest; even if they've overdone it to death with RS.

If I were choosing for them to do something, I personally would think they are lacking some serious confidence right now and have to go back to something they are genuinely familiar with instead of trying to go a bit out of their own skill set (read - way out of their league) like with Lair which needed far more... and far different..... everything... in a lot of gameplay stuff.

I think it'd be best to go for a flight game for them next, that's just me. Any type of flight game (with planes or spaceships or something) even an arcadey one with modern jets and fighter planes maybe.

I just say I want a Star Wars game because I've never been able to experience one of their graphical showcases for the GC. I was always totally amazed by the graphics in screens of the GC games though.

Maybe they should do Independence day lol. It'd be like fighting the Death Star but completely upside down lol.

[EvilTaru]

...

[EvilTaru]

Maybe they can try another flight game that is not Rogue Squadron then? I would definitely assume that they've lost a good bit of confidence both from within and from the outside, so if I had to choose for them I'd make them go back to something they've done and at least know in the slightest; even if they've overdone it to death with RS.



What did you think Lair was? It was THAT FLIGHT GAME THAT IS NOT ROGUE SQUADRON. It's not what label they're using for their flight game, it's their FUCKING FLIGHT GAME DESIGNS, THEY SUCK SHIT AND ARE NOT FUN. That's why Lair was panned, not because it's called Lair or has dragons in it, but it's the same tediouis and boring flight game designs shit that people fucking hate even back then but couldn't come out and say it because RS games were the few GC games that looked pretty.

[masteratt]

Your old post was better, why did you remove it?

[EvilTaru]

Your old post was better, why did you remove it?

Cuz I sounded angry and I don't really want to offend anyone.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

[masteratt]

Well you made a great point though.
Shame it's not there any more.

[curryking1]

Damn I missed the post... now I want to read what it was before.

And by a different flight game... I mean a flight game that's actually like planes and something that Factor 5 at least knows a bit about lol. At least it would make sense, an X-Wing firing lasers super fast or a F22 firing bullets crazy fast.... unlike a crazy dragon barfing out fireballs 20 times a second.

Dragons + X-Wing = does not comply and can't be categorized as anything.

Actually...

Dragons + X-Wing = Worst Mod in History

P.S. Factor 5 needs to be reshuffled by SCEWW and Phil Harrison personally.

Very badly. Although that wouldn't exactly be representative of the creed that goes along with SCEWW and allowing largely creative freedom by the devs.................... I think they should make an exception here to be honest.

Factor 5 is like a less talented version of Geurilla... and with a lot less dream and substance... they need some work....

At least it's easy to pick out the worst SCEWW studio? Maybe a bit too easy... Factor 5 just makes it that way...

[EvilTaru]

It's not the control scheme or the fact that you're controlling a dragon and you're shooting dragons that made Lair suck, but X-WING GAMEPLAY that made it suck, because it's outdated, unrewarding and repetitive, putting that SW label back on that sort of tired gameplay doesn't make it more palatable.

SCEWW can't reshuffle Factor 5, they don't own Factor 5, they just signed Factor 5 to a publishing deal for a couple of games.

[curryking1]

Damn... then no one can help Factor 5 lol :P

[EvilTaru]

Damn... then no one can help Factor 5 lol :P

They can help themselves by hiring some competent gameplay designers and implement some new gameplay mechanics and scenarios that don't involve "fly over there and take out a few flying things and fly back here and bomb this and then fly over there and shoot a few more flying things down". Frankly I don't think it's that hard given Factor 5's situation.

[karibu]

What happened to ripping rhinos head off??

Also I hate that THX thing you can't skip >:(

[ded5850]

Lair could have been sweet on the Wii...

[EvilTaru]

Lair could have been sweet on the Wii...

It wouldn't, because it would have shit gameplay AND ugly shit graphics.

[KRA]

GameTrailers: Game of the Year Awards 2007 (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/29275.html)

whate a nice surprise :)

[woundingchaney]

Bringing it back simply because it must be done.


http://www.lair.justgotowned.com/

[Diresu]

Bringing it back simply because it must be done.


http://www.lair.justgotowned.com/

Wow my eyes and ears bled after watching that.

[jako]

For myself, I love Lair.
But does anyone know some cheats ? I must be a noob but I can't get throw one level (the one hapenning during the night where you don't have to be cought buy the lights). I tried it about 20 times and can't go to the end of the level :(

If someone can help, I would love because I could continue this adventure.

[GTAce]

The game is cool, the controls arent that bad but the mission design, checkpoints etc are bad!

[TimmyJ]

For myself, I love Lair.
But does anyone know some cheats ? I must be a noob but I can't get throw one level (the one hapenning during the night where you don't have to be cought buy the lights). I tried it about 20 times and can't go to the end of the level :(

If someone can help, I would love because I could continue this adventure.

What's the specific part that you're struggling with? If it's the part where there are those big, gold steam things... then you just have to shoot the giant chains leading up to them to turn off the spotlights.

And on the subject of crappy game designers : agreed :smile: give me a sheet of paper and a few hours (and a pen too ideally) and I could conceive a game head and shoulders above this... *sits assuredly*

That said, this game does still have certain things still going for it: the level in the enemy city - I didn't really pay much attention to this game's non-story - really stands out in my memory.

[cliffbo]

the one great thing that Lair did for the PS3 is to demonstrate that you could play a 1080p game via it on the PSP (something that many said was impossible)

[dnpmakkah]

Bringing it back simply because it must be done.


http://www.lair.justgotowned.com/There was something similar to this about PD0, were you the one that posted that a long time ago too?

[Segitz]

There was something similar to this about PD0, were you the one that posted that a long time ago too?

You mean like this one

http://www.PD0.justgotowned.com/

[jako]

What's the specific part that you're struggling with? If it's the part where there are those big, gold steam things... then you just have to shoot the giant chains leading up to them to turn off the spotlights.

Thanks for the answer but that is what I do. Even if you shhot those giants chain, there are still lights on the sides of the valley and they always catch me. What a noob I am :)

+rep for the one that finds me the right cheat code.

[TimmyJ]

Thanks for the answer but that is what I do. Even if you shhot those giants chain, there are still lights on the sides of the valley and they always catch me. What a noob I am :)

Hmmm, well I'm not entirely sure what it does, but part of the structure in the centre of the area can be targeted and destroyed (it's on the side of the building iirc).

There's a chance that it turns off all of the spotlights in the area but by the time I discovered that you can do this, I'd already destroyed them all as well as two of the three big, gold steam things... I guess that's just how leet I am...

[cliffbo]

Official: Factor 5 Back on Wii
Company president confirms that it's making at least one non-Virtual Console project for Nintendo's new system.
by Matt Casamassina

US, January 14, 2008 - The maker of the hit GameCube series Rogue Squadron is back. In a phone conversation with IGN Wii this morning, company president Julian Eggebrecht confirmed that the studio is underway with at least one all-new Wii project -- and it's not a Virtual Console game. Beyond that confirmation, Eggebrecht was mum, but he did note that the new title would not simply re-use old Rogue Squadron tech; whatever it is, significantly updated or even completely new tech has been developed to help accommodate it.

Factor 5's previous title, Lair, released for PlayStation 3 to mixed reviews. However, it is worth noting that the developer is intimately familiar with the GameCube hardware, whose technology extends to Wii. Not only did Factor 5 work with Nintendo to develop GameCube's audio solution, but it pushed the console harder on a graphics level than just about every other studio, Nintendo included. Bearing that in mind, fans can rest assured that whatever the company's new Wii game is, it's a safe bet that it'll look good and push the hardware.

At one time, Factor 5 was pegged to develop a sequel to Pilot Wings for the then-codenamed Revolution. Nintendo even went so far as to list the San Rafael-based studio as a "partner" in its official E3 presentation. Since that time, though, the company has been busy with the PS3-exclusive Lair and thus, work on any Pilot Wings sequel is thought to have been halted or cancelled altogether. Incidentally, IGN believes Factor 5's Wii title is an altogether different beast.

We'll have much more on the project as information becomes available. For now, though, Nintendo fans who loved the Rogue Squadron games should be happy to know that one of GameCube's best contributors is now lending its support to Wii.

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/845/845353p1.html

[frosty]

and that relates to the ps3 how?

[cliffbo]

and that relates to the ps3 how?

because it begs the question: will they drop the PS3...

[VG Aficionado]

Factor 5 had 3 ongoing projects, and one of them was a PSN project. Unless it's news of F5 "defecting" to Wii, don't post that here.

[cliffbo]

Factor 5 had 3 ongoing projects, and one of them was a PSN project. Unless it's news of F5 "defecting" to Wii, don't post that here.

lets assume it's a 'could happen'. would anyone be bothered? i for one would because although Lair was a bit of a failure, i could see that they at least tried to come to grips with the PS3 and it would be a shame if they stopped making games for it... (this conversation could now go three ways: 1) everybody just keeps reminding me that it shouldn't be here and ignore what it could mean, or 2) discuss the possibility that it could mean a defection and so comment on whether they would miss them or say good riddens, or 3) discuss why they don't think it will happen, either way the threads yours fellas.

[VG Aficionado]

OK. I won't be discussing it though, I've got better things to do than discussing a what-if with no facts, mostly in a game thread :-p

[cliffbo]

as you pointed out, they are supposed to be working on a PSN title so i'm opting for 'no they won't defect'. i hope so anyway :)

[Zer0-Sum]

If Factor 5 did defect to the Wii and did not make Lair 2, I would want someone else to take up the job of making a KILLER dragon combat game. Fully realized next gen dragon combat is what I wanted out of Lair. If Factor 5 is unable of making truly next gen gameplay, then they can go with no tears from me. if they do stay on the PS3 to make Lair 2, then they had better get their asses moving, worry less about the graphics and more about gameplay. They graphics are all ready killer, it is gameplay ideas that are important. Gameplay > Graphics.

[dnpmakkah]

It's pretty relevant to the PS3 because this is a company that just this year produced a game for the PS3. Sure it wasn't a powerhouse game but if true this is still discussion worthy in this section.

[VonGak]

NO, just no! Factor 5 needs to learn from their previous mistakes (controls, level design, mission design and X-Wing fireballs) and try again.

There's nothing wrong with a Dragon game and there'll be a huge market if it's done right, there's a ton of geeks running around in the woods.

But like with mech games, the devs tend to forget that riding a dragon needs to be put in perspective.

[lips]

lair was not a complete failure. Can the market really handle a system with not one; I cannot comment, I just fantasize.

[lips]

. double post

[evillion]

need Lair2. i just wanna c how much further factor5 can push ps3.

[Zer0-Sum]

I am getting the feeling that Factor5 is going to make a Wii game to make a crap load of cash. But I would also expect Lair 2. Sony still believes in Lair. They still advertise for it all over the place. They are NOT screwing Factor5. Factor5 just needs raw cash to keep operating. Once PS3 hits a certain mass of sales, Lair 2 will look VERY juicy.

[evillion]

I am getting the feeling that Factor5 is going to make a Wii game to make a crap load of cash. But I would also expect Lair 2. Sony still believes in Lair. They still advertise for it all over the place. They are NOT screwing Factor5. Factor5 just needs raw cash to keep operating. Once PS3 hits a certain mass of sales, Lair 2 will look VERY juicy.
i assume it would take abit less resources since they already got a good head start with the system. so lair2 production should be much faster and efficient.the graphics would surely redefine PS3.

[TrueVCU]

Plus all they need to fix Lair 1 are three critical things:

1: Kill the Glitches
2: Improve the targeting system
3: Fuck the skywhales

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Agreed!

[amuront]

Plus all they need to fix Lair 1 are three critical things:

1: Kill the Glitches
2: Improve the targeting system
3: Fuck the skywhales

What's wrong with the skywhales? They look cool. I've never played the game...

One thing that really bugs me from the videos I have seen is the camera. They cut-change the camera too often. Why can't they just rotate/zoom?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

You have to protect them is stupid escort missions. But they die at the drop of a hat.

[amuront]

I see, let them get fucked then. :lol:

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Sure if it didn't fail your mission! Bastards. Escort missions = fail.

[TrueVCU]

also their flying animations are... less than smooth >_>

[LiquidEagle]

Do you have to protect them from Japanese fishermen?

[TrueVCU]

considering the efficiency with which the enemy can exterminate the damn things if left to their own devices, yes

[LaLiLuLeLo]

To answer your question, Liquid, you might as well, they die off so fast.

[Zer0-Sum]

You have to protect them is stupid escort missions. But they die at the drop of a hat.

Ah shit, I HATE escort missions. That is a major downer for Lair.

[Viper]

Sales update:

PS3 - 300,000*
US - 224,195
Euro - unknown*
Japan - 75,589

* - Figures not released yet.

[cliffbo]

Lair updates coming

A free update for Lair will come on Apr 17th in Japan.

It adds control by the left analogue stick (instead of SIXAXIS), DualShock 3 support, better aim function, 2 bonus dragons (Wind Dragon and Poison Dragon) and custom themes that change randomly on startup.


http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-133213.aspx

[VG Aficionado]

Yet another confirmation of the 100% reliability of the leaked PSN schedule.

[zero 7]

yeh analog control i cn finally play it lol

[Bsack]

meh still not much of an incentive for me to even want to play this game because it was so boring...

[masteratt]

It'll be like £5 when this patch c