Lair

[OmniCloud]

Anytime you can see the "carnage" meter on the left side of the screen you know it's gameplay (little observation;))

Either way, the cut-scenes don't look much better than the game...and I will just reiterate one more time-BEST WATER EVER! Seriously though, it's really a big game scope wise, looks like great fun and a AAA PS3 title hopefully is the result.

[Insane Metal]

Ok then courtesy to you :)

Yeah thanks. And its for realz, I made them. I posted them at first at neogaf and then here :)

[dnpmakkah]

Yeah thanks. And its for realz, I made them. I posted them at first at neogaf and then here :)Damn really...people should give credit from where and who they got it from, that way we can keep track of it. Oh well +rep to you.

[EvilTaru]

My god.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

[LiquidEagle]

All my worries went away with this new blast of information -- this game's looking amazing, and the story has me very interested. Artistically they made a great-looking world so I want to know what goes on in it :-D

[LiquidEagle]

What's the source footage for the animated gifs on this page?

[Insane Metal]

Damn really...people should give credit from where and who they got it from, that way we can keep track of it. Oh well +rep to you.

Yeah... thx

I´m seriously thinking about putting a mark with my nickname on the gifs... not the whole animation but atleast a few frames. I make a lot of them and I never get the credit :(

What's the source footage for the animated gifs on this page?

Developer walkthrough part 2 in this page: http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2657 ;)

[EvilTaru]

Did someone hijack Cliffbo's account? J/K.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

No, I'm not worried about Lair, not anymore, this thing is going to be big, the Game Trailers footage really made me alot more confident about the title.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

[dnpmakkah]

We're confident Lair will kick some ass for the PS3 when it arrives in July.

Games Rader Link (http://www.gamesradar.com/us/ps3/game/previews/article.jsp?articleId=20070412103723361067&releaseId=2005138888000000020735&sectionId=1001&pageId=2007041210397513057)

[mario25]

Has anyone seen the "creature presentation" and the "in-depth interview" videos at gametrailers yet??

If yes please share you thoughts

[overclocked]

Has anyone seen the "creature presentation" and the "in-depth interview" videos at gametrailers yet??

If yes please share you thoughts

Yeah i saw it, impressive imho.

[Applefiend]

Watching it now. The dragons are dinosaurs with bat wings!

[overclocked]

Watching it now. The dragons are dinosaurs with bat wings!

Yeah kind of hehe! Im so in touch with the water covering and foams/interacts with the cliffs so Fxxxxx nice...

[Diresu]

Just watched the creatures video. Man that coral snake is out of this world. First thought that came to mind was "its a damn good thing I am flying, I would NOT want to be in the water with that thing swimming around." It's a pissed of anaconda on steroids.

[overclocked]

Just watched the creatures video. Man that coral snake is out of this world. First thought that came to mind was "its a damn good thing I am flying, I would NOT want to be in the water with that thing swimming around." It's a pissed of anaconda on steroids.

Yeah it sure is, more waterlike-creature though..

[agentorange]

I hope its 60fps but 30fps maybee good enough even if there will be some small clippings and popups. Also lets hope that they include a multiplayer patch soon after its release.

[VG Aficionado]

They've stated several times that it'll be locked at 30 fps.

[KRA]

i would love to have option for 720p at 60fps.
but probablly it is to much additional work.

ahh and i am still wondering if ground knights can kill the dragon or are they just puppets to eat or die matrix style. it would be nice if there have some ways to kill dragon so it would be more chalenging.

[evillion]

HELLAVA rendering rendering engine Factor 5 has pulled! i just wanna give them credits and love purely on the graphical side. like the wise Kojima once said, if PS3 is the movie theatre, then i think Lair surely is the "LOTR blockbuster". getting it the moment when it hits EB.

[karibu]

i would love to have option for 720p at 60fps.
but probablly it is to much additional work.

ahh and i am still wondering if ground knights can kill the dragon or are they just puppets to eat or die matrix style. it would be nice if there have some ways to kill dragon so it would be more chalenging.

I wish I could neg rep every time someone says "matrix style".
Like there never was slow motion before.

[KRA]

I wish I could neg rep every time someone says "matrix style".
Like there never was slow motion before.

well i am not a big fan of matrix and don't think that there were no films before it. so it has some negative undertone in my mouth. furthermore my english it's not so good. but you can spank me anytime you want :)

[venomv]

To me, story ranks up there on importance level, the most important in certain genres, but we have so little togo on, and they have so many ways to implement a story with what they have going on, there is no reason to "worry".

[Viano]

I'm worried...








what's the release date?...

[satriales]

The game still looks like a mess to me.
The technology is very impressive and the city and water look stunning, but as a game it still needs buckets of polish and I don't know if 2 months is long enough for them to pull it all together.
I hope that they delay the game if it's not ready in time.

[KRA]

The game still looks like a mess to me.
The technology is very impressive and the city and water look stunning, but as a game it still needs buckets of polish and I don't know if 2 months is long enough for them to pull it all together.
I hope that they delay the game if it's not ready in time.

yeah i think it looks litlle chaotic.
and the whole game looks like a addition to the great technology.
i mean i am worried about what game will it be
it will be graphically stunning for sure but will it be fun to play ?
will it be as fun and deep from a gamplay point of view as from technology one ?.

[Lucent Beam]

I feel like even if the story is lame, it may not hurt the title itself.
Some of my favorite games have had utter shit stories, but it worked because the game fit the story. The suckage of the plot didn't really hurt my overall enjoyment of the game.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

So basically everyone's just wetting their pants on the typical fear of a hyped game crashing, and...this is nothing special. at all.


"This game looks fucking sweet oh my god!!!!!"

"Oh but what if it's bad????"


"Oh noes! what if it is bad?!!!"

[VG Aficionado]

Games are games after all. I prefer games with elaborate storylines and good narrative, but many games don't really need excellent ones. In some weird cases, a game might have a dreadful storyline, yet it works great because it actually creates a lot of awesome situations and if every other department is all right, the game is just totally fine. This is what I think of RE4.

[Leedogg]

I got alot of faith in Factor 5.

I don't think they will disappoint us.

[dnpmakkah]

Another GIF from GAF
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81/mckmas8808/Lair_Animation_3.gif

[dnpmakkah]

why do people have such HIGH expectations for anything Sony related. This game needs 'some' polishing, not BUCKETS of polishing. I think that was a bit over the top.

[mario25]

Worried!!!....hahaha :laugh:

This went trough mild interest to one of my most anticipated games of all time in one day.

[Z]

how are they going to thread a immersive storyline [?]
you are worried about an 'immersive storyline'?

I have two things to say to you:

1- I never once looked at Lair as having a great story. I expect it to be very cliche and average at best. and story has absolutely no importance for me or priority as to why I am all over this game.

2- this could have been brought up in the current Lair thread.

[EvilTaru]

The lighting is amazing.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

[satriales]

why do people have such HIGH expectations for anything Sony related. This game needs 'some' polishing, not BUCKETS of polishing. I think that was a bit over the top.

It's just my opinion from the latest videos. I'm not sure when those videos were taken but if they are recent then I see lots of things that need to be fixed and I don't think 2 months is long enough.

Some of the problems I see are:

- The new LOD technology that they were demonstrating turns low detail objects in the distance into high detail objects as they get closer. This shouldn't be noticeable, but in the video it is very noticeable and off-putting.
- The dragon-on-dragon combat system seems very disorientaing and a bit awkward to control.
- The fire effects don't look particularly impressive.
- The Water looks stunning until you explode some boats and then the ripples just look weird.
- The whole idea of shooting fireballs at wooden boats and then they explode doesn't really seem right. They should burn and sink rather than explode.
- It's hard to tell what's going on in the cutscenes, too many quick cuts from strange angles.
- Frame rate needs improving

This is just from the few lvl's that were demonstrated and as I used to be a games tester I know that the lvl's they don't demonstrate are always the one's that need the most work.

I really want Lair to be a great game and I'd rather it was delayed that released in a poor state.

[TEEDA]

here's another one about the water :
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a81/mckmas8808/Lair_Animation_2.gif

[VG Aficionado]

I really want Lair to be a great game and I'd rather it was delayed that released in a poor state. It's certainly nowhere near the 'realtime' video that was shown about a year ago.What are you talking about? They're not even comparable. Those 2005 videos didn't show huge land environments or buildings, armies, ocean, etc. The dragons were different too.

By the way, Julian himself talked about those videos and he pretty much said they could recreate them and they would only look better now.

[angelcage]

I'm not worried at all about Lair,from what we can see,it looks like a very solid title(aside from some easy fixable defects,like the 2d ugly grass and the flames appereance)and storywise,it seems good too(i had read somewhere that the story implies political intrigues and such).
I consider Lair as the first real KA for the Ps3 and one of the most impressive games ever(it's not fanboysm but just the reality)

[dnpmakkah]

Last-gen that would have been CG this gen it's gameplay. :buldge:

[mario25]

I hope its 60fps but 30fps maybee good enough even if there will be some small clippings and popups. Also lets hope that they include a multiplayer patch soon after its release.

This game has always been intended to be 30fps, I don't know why you bring the 60fps and the popups argument when the games has a lot more positive things to notice, but I'm going to guess it's because you can't stand a PS3 games having a positive vibe around here.

Should I neg rep you?

[LiquidEagle]

:laugh: Agentorange has already been negative repped to hell

[mario25]

I guess one more wouldn't hurt his reputation

[satriales]

What are you talking about? They're not even comparable. Those 2005 videos didn't show huge land environments or buildings, armies, ocean, etc. The dragons were different too.

By the way, Julian himself talked about those videos and he pretty much said they could recreate them and they would only look better now.

I'm not too worried about the graphics as they generally look stunning, but they haven't quite met the quality shown in the early video's which we were told were realtime. It's no big deal though as like you say the recent videos show a game with a much bigger scale. Also it's hard to judge the graphics from a low quality video.

[Shogun042]

i wonder if some of these vids will be up on the PSN store Thursday. the vido about the music looks like a PR vid.

ah it still bugs me that the troops move in unison, but everything else is stunning.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I wish I could neg rep every time someone says "matrix style".
Like there never was slow motion before.

well it was one of the first movies to use it as stylishly as it did and there's no denying the impact the first movie had on pop culture. Everyone immediately gets what he means, so you can't really bash him for using that as an example.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I think you shouldn't be so quick to nitpick the hell out of an unreleased game. And that's just what it is, nitpicking.

[Creasybear]

i wish they can take the dragon, ocean, and city by the sea, and slap them into God of War 3!!!

that would be so damn cool

[cliffbo]

So basically everyone's just wetting their pants on the typical fear of a hyped game crashing, and...this is nothing special. at all.


"This game looks fucking sweet oh my god!!!!!"

"Oh but what if it's bad????"


"Oh noes! what if it is bad?!!!"

yes but we have to be honest about things even if it is on our chosen console. GOW textures looked better than RFOM textures... thats how it goes in the real world. the one thing that the devs demonstrated and went to great length to talk about was the so-called real world water physics. well i suggest he watches his own footage because every ship that was hit gave off two waves with no dissipation or variety. these niggles could well be ironed out of course

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Right. Niggles. Squibbles. Minor shit.

*Rolls eyes.*

And GeOW is a 2nd gen 360 title compared to a first gen PS3 title. The fact that they're at all comparable in my eyes renders that point moot.

[VG Aficionado]

i wish they can take the dragon, ocean, and city by the sea, and slap them into God of War 3!!!

that would be so damn coolI'd say there's a chance Factor 5 will end up sharing the code they're using for the procedural waves (if they haven't already) thanks to the SCEWWS initiatives.

[cliffbo]

Right. Niggles. Squibbles. Minor shit.

*Rolls eyes.*

And GeOW is a 2nd gen 360 title compared to a first gen PS3 title. The fact that they're at all comparable in my eyes renders that point moot.

but it is true though... on the other hand RFOM had bigger environments and more going on. you see it cuts both ways... and i'm not going into detail about why i think that is. I'm sure that the game will be polished to perfection by the time its released, but all of the focus seems to be on graphics.

[VG Aficionado]

I'm starting to wonder if there's a purpose to this thread anymore at this point. There's another big Lair thread where this could have been discussed (although it's probably better to separate some discussion paths sometimes) and the question posed in the thread title has been answered. Beating a dead horse FTL.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

All in favor of a lock say Aye.

[cliffbo]

i wonder what will happen?......................

[woundingchaney]

I think the thread has run its course and from all indications the game looks to be a AAA title, at this point Im not sure if any of us should "worry". If for some instance it isnt a good game or someone doesnt think they will enjoy it simply rent or dont buy.



Other than that AYE

[cliffbo]

ye close it...Sony's wonderful lol

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Zang Zabam!

[Z]

it doesn't matter who makes what first, what matters is who makes it popular- at least as far as the public is interested.

Matrix is the definition of bullet-time. even the name is taken from that scene that 'bullet' scene. ;)

[Segitz]

Yes, the Matrix did it VERY good, but part two and three made the cardinal mistake in overdoing it (just like NFS Underground sort of came to be as a fad from TFTF). (The first movie however, who did these slo mo turning stuff was... you wont guess it "Wing Commander - The Movie" (was released only some time before the Matrix^^

[cliffbo]

i'm serious when i say i hope this game gets delayed... i've really got this strange feeling about it. i'm confident with HS and MGS and FF but for some reason... i won't be blinded by hype if this game releases and does not live up to the devs own hype. not the media of course, only young children are swayed by that

[EvilTaru]

i'm serious when i say i hope this game gets delayed... i've really got this strange feeling about it. i'm confident with HS and MGS and FF but for some reason... i won't be blinded by hype if this game releases and does not live up to the devs own hype. not the media of course, only young children are swayed by that

This is crazy, the game is in alpha already, is feature-complete and Factor 5 will have a few months to polish it up, there's no need to delay it even more.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

[VG Aficionado]

i'm serious when i say i hope this game gets delayed...
i won't be blinded by hype if this game releases and does not live up to the devs own hype.In the first sentence you seem worried about this game (hence the thread you created recently). However, in the second sentence you state that you won't bother to care about it if the game isn't as good as you could possibly expect. Both sentences aren't separated contextually, which means you're contradicting yourself because of who knows why :shrug:

[cliffbo]

In the first sentence you seem worried about this game (hence the thread you created recently). However, in the second sentence you state that you won't bother to care about it if the game isn't as good as you could possibly expect. Both sentences aren't separated contextually, which means you're contradicting yourself because of who knows why :shrug:

not at all VG. i've got my own idea of what it should be. what i'm saying is that i won't be lead by the nose by the media to expect ridiculous standards. my evaluation in on what is possible now this evaluation will change over the years

[VG Aficionado]

Ridiculous standards? We just saw what Lair looks like. What you see is what you get, and hopefully it'll be ssslightly better with two more months of polishing, but I don't see who's hyping "ridiculous standards" when we've just watched several minutes of varied gameplay in different stages. It's not like they said "the difference between the current build you're seeing and the final build will be like the difference between night and day" or even close to that. You're fooling yourself, there's no such ridiculous hype from the developers in this case.

[cliffbo]

Ridiculous standards? We just saw what Lair looks like. What you see is what you get, and hopefully it'll be ssslightly better with two more months of polishing, but I don't see who's hyping "ridiculous standards" when we've just watched several minutes of varied gameplay in different stages. It's not like they said "the difference between the current build you're seeing and the final build will be like the difference between night and day" or even close to that. You're fooling yourself.

yes it look absolutely amazing for now. but that is for now. i can look into the future without getting frustrated with the past.

[EvilTaru]

yes it look absolutely amazing for now. but that is for now. i can look into the future without getting frustrated with the past.

What exactly are you saying? The game has already been delayed once, it should have been out already, it makes no sense to push it back even further just because all of a sudden you think it will be so much better with another year and letting the budget balloon out of control.

[cliffbo]

What exactly are you saying? The game has already been delayed, it should have been out already, it makes no sense to push it back even further just because all of a sudden you think it will be so much better with another year and letting the budget balloon out of control.

i just can't put my finger on why i feel this way about Lair... i've just got this feeling that its going to get hammered by the press. i'm not as confident with this title as HS or FF or RAC

[EvilTaru]

i just can't put my finger on why i feel this way about Lair... i've just got this feeling that its going to get hammered by the press. i'm not as confident with this title as HS or HH or RAC

It's a PS3 game, it will get hammered by the press, the same way Resistance got hammered by the press, the same way Ratchet and Clank FTOD will get nitpicked by the press, every single freakin' PS3 game will have to live up to being a "system-seller" when judged by the press. There's no point in trying to live up to unrealistic expectations established by the press, if Factor 5 thinks the game will be good enough for a July release then that's when it should come out.

[Shogun042]

i'm curious as to how the media will receive this game/how many copies it will sell. i'm confident it'll be a great game and i hope it'll sell a ton of copies because just by watching the dev videos, there was a LOT of $$ involved in making this game.

[VG Aficionado]

every single freakin' PS3 game will have to live up to being a "system-seller" when judged by the press. "Is *insertPS3gamehere* worth $600?" :realmad

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Y'all need to stop acting like your life is riding on this game.

[cliffbo]

Y'all need to stop acting like your life is riding on this game.

my life is about writing, games are just something to toss about with when i'm bored...

[LaLiLuLeLo]

mmmhm.

[mario25]

"Is *insertPS3gamehere* worth $600?" :realmad

I frigging' hate that phrase...really really bad

[julps31]

I figging' hate that phrase...really really badLol me too. Thats the ultimate 360 fanboy phrase right there. -rep Vg for bringing back bad fanboy memorys. lol...j/k.

[karibu]

well it was one of the first movies to use it as stylishly as it did and there's no denying the impact the first movie had on pop culture. Everyone immediately gets what he means, so you can't really bash him for using that as an example.

it doesn't matter who makes what first, what matters is who makes it popular- at least as far as the public is interested.

Matrix is the definition of bullet-time. even the name is taken from that scene that 'bullet' scene. ;)

It annous the living crap out of me. Everytime there's a movie with a slowmo sequense or in game intro people mostly say "that's so copied from matrix *rolleyes*" even if that movie/game was older. Especially when a director has used slowmo in his/her movies years before.
Hell, even Silver Fang anime had that rotating camera in intro.

It does matter, everyone is like matix invented it and everyone else using it is just copying. I seriously dont want read a review about Lair mentioning "you can do stuff in matrix style."

Sure alot people know what 'matrix style' means. And it does matter,
you can't do even slowmo in movies that someone says it's matrix.
It makes me wanna bust some testicles when people give too much credit to a movie where the only really good thing was the plot twist.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Um...sorry?

[Fillibuster]

It annous the living crap out of me. Everytime there's a movie with a slowmo sequense or in game intro people mostly say "that's so copied from matrix *rolleyes*" even if that movie/game was older. Especially when a director has used slowmo in his/her movies years before.
Hell, even Silver Fang anime had that rotating camera in intro.

It does matter, everyone is like matix invented it and everyone else using it is just copying. I seriously dont want read a review about Lair mentioning "you can do stuff in matrix style."

Sure alot people know what 'matrix style' means. And it does matter,
you can't do even slowmo in movies that someone says it's matrix.
It makes me wanna bust some testicles when people give too much credit to a movie where the only really good thing was the plot twist.

:whogives:

But seriously...
I was never very interested in this game until just recently. But all this talk about being worried is nonsense I believe. It's isn't out yet, it's got a little more time for polish, and it looks outstanding right now. Sure it will get hammered by the press, but since when do we here give a shit about what they say? We're going to buy it, and we're going to enjoy it, and that is all that matters.

[yoshaw]

^Words of wisdom right there. Everyone worried, take heed.

[Cless]

Some new footages I haven't seen in other videos.
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761161/vid_1964272.html

[KRA]

:whogives:

But seriously...
I was never very interested in this game until just recently. But all this talk about being worried is nonsense I believe. It's isn't out yet, it's got a little more time for polish, and it looks outstanding right now. Sure it will get hammered by the press, but since when do we here give a shit about what they say? We're going to buy it, and we're going to enjoy it, and that is all that matters.

i have just stated to think what 'to worry' really means.
seriously...
it isn't nonsense. yeah it has time for polish and it looks great. but i am worried about gameplay as i had wrote earlier and this is a time to be worried. maybe it's stupid but i thought that maybe someone from factor5 reads some forums and reading some worries can see things in a diffrent light. and then when this will be out there is no time to worries. there will be game we will check it and we will know how it is. how it plays how it looks. and i don't give a shit about press nor about you telling me that i will enjoy it. i will try it and i will know if i enjoy it :)

[Fillibuster]

i have just stated to think what 'to worry' really means.
seriously...
it isn't nonsense. yeah it has time for polish and it looks great. but i am worried about gameplay as i had wrote earlier and this is a time to be worried. maybe it's stupid but i thought that maybe someone from factor5 reads some forums and reading some worries can see things in a diffrent light. and then when this will be out there is no time to worries. there will be game we will check it and we will know how it is. how it plays how it looks. and i don't give a shit about press nor about you telling me that i will enjoy it. i will try it and i will know if i enjoy it :)

Oh it wasn't directed at you KRA, just in general people complaining about it getting a downgrade in graphics and what not...

[curryking1]

I must say I'm a little iffy about the gameplay as well.

Either way, I really want to try it both to see how it actually plays for myself, and definitely for what a technical achievement this game appears to be.

[VG Aficionado]

New interview with Julian. Long and great! (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20070424/sheffield_04.shtml)

At a recent event for Lair, in which the PlayStation 3’s finer points were put on display for a group of select journalists, Gamasutra spoke one-on-one with Factor 5 president Julian Eggebrecht about the game and its future. In particular, Eggebrecht highlighted design considerations for the Sixaxis, Factor 5’s discoveries in terms of how to use the PS3’s SPUs and RSX GPU, also hitting on the company’s work on a new entry to the Turrican series.


You're obviously taking advantage of the Sixaxis. Why do you think that hasn't happened so much so far?

Julian Eggebrecht: On the one hand, you have to have the time for it. On the other hand, you have to have the right game for it. Lair was just screaming Sixaxis. As I said in the presentation earlier, I'm a firm believer by now that you really shouldn't force motion control on functionality which it really isn't made for.

So that's why, for example, we switched the ground control back to the stick. Lair just lends itself in so many aspects to the motion control. It actually is better than the stick. For some other game types, there might not be a single aspect which is better with motion controls, so [it would be better to] leave it out.


As I've also noticed with the Wii, sometimes it's a little difficult to know the limits of how far you can turn, for example, in a game with motion controls.

JE: In Lair, we're mapping the level of the controller exactly to the dragon. Basically, if you lean the maximum 90 degrees, the dragon will turn that much. The angle matches perfectly.

We found that very important, because that came after focus testing after TGS. We were watching people fly, and they were having some fun, but they were having more problems than later on, when we made sure that [the controller matched on-screen movement]. Humans seem to have a pretty keen sense for what the angle of something is, and are able to correlate that subconsciously to what's on-screen. It helped a lot.


Did you have to hand-animate the dragons? I saw videos of the mocap that was done for the humans, down at SCEA San Diego – it was really nice.

JE: The dragons obviously have to be hand-animated. There aren't any dragons to motion capture!


You could’ve used a lion or something!

JE: The interesting thing about the dragons is that most of the time they're actually biped. They're kind of dinosaurish. The sole reason for that is that you want to have the front arms able to do something.

We had an early prototype where the dragons were completely four-legged on the ground. It made it way too hard to control. Just spinning on the spot was impossible, so it turned very much into horse-like or tank-like gameplay. That's actually why we raised them up a little and went with more T-rex-like proportions.

From the presentation, it feels like there is a lot of importance and focus being placed on Lair on the Sony side. Sony always used to focus on exclusive titles, and that's not as possible now with budgets people have.


How important do you think first- and second-party titles are to Sony's and the PS3's future?

JE: I think they make all the difference. That's why it's important that you have a strong first-party slate throughout the year. The fact that the other games are multiplatform inherently means that most of them probably won't take advantage of the platform the way they should. That applies to both [the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3].

I'm sure that there are enough titles which come out on 360 because they also have to be on the PS3, which don't even take full advantage of the 360. It's a two-way street. That's the one thing where you really have to show the strength of your system: with the first-party exclusives.

Secondly, there's this generation's very interesting structure regarding controllers. We've never had that before, that we've had so vastly different controllers. And who else but first-parties will take advantage of that in the way it should be?


It seems like a game like Lair would be relied upon to move system units, too, when you have multiple SKUs and other systems have been out longer.

JE: We've never designed like that. Lair is fresh in terms of genre because it's a new genre - we call it "fight and flight" - and using the controller actually came out of the fundamental design involving dragons.

When the dragon thing happened, the motion control aspect was just a glimpse on the horizon. It might have happened, it might have not happened. I think we just lucked out, but on the other hand we also always try to use every single feature in a new machine simply because we get a kick out of it.


How far do you think there is to go, graphically, on PS3?

JE: It's huge. I think (PS3 GPU) RSX isn't a big secret. What's really interesting is that we're starting these days in the optimization process for Lair to use Cell to do certain things on the graphics side, which you normally wouldn't expect.

I think there is a huge room for growth. RSX, as well as the GPU in the 360, are known quantities. Around the middle of the cycle, most people will have figured out what you can do with them. But then you suddenly have the connection between Cell and the SPUs and RSX, and you can do a lot more with that, graphically.


How are you splitting stuff up to the SPUs? What sorts of things are you finding you're able to stick in there?

JE: We initially started out by saying, "Wow, we're going to do physics," and everybody should do that at least. But it very quickly became a matter of "oh, let's put this on the SPUs, and now let's put this on there." We've got the fluid dynamics, all of the physics including ragdoll, and all of the collisions.
In a game like Lair, if you've got a couple of thousand soldiers running around and hundreds of dragons, one of the big issues you have is a ton of collision checks, which other games simply don't have. It's always been a big issue, and the SPUs are perfect for number-crunching like that. Other things which you can do nicely on the SPUs is to prepare tasks for the RSX, which normally you'd have to do with the CPU, because the GPU really can't do it at that moment.

We've got a lot of things, including army AI. If you have primitive AI for the distant armies, you can easily run that on the SPUs. As the army comes closer and these guys need to get more intelligent, you move the more intelligent army AI code onto the PPU.


So you've got to find these certain bite-sized areas that you can optimize?

JE: Yeah. You need to find all of these systems, and you need to pre-design systems. We found that out rather early on in a nasty way with the collisions. We assumed our collision system wouldn't be done on SPUs, and that was a big mistake. We designed it around general access and not small chunks.
We had to completely kick that out the door and redo it. We realized that we should look out for that in the future, and every single system which would even remotely lend itself to that was designed like that from the beginning.


How close is it to release?

JE: We're releasing in July. The state of the game we're in right now is alpha. Alpha means that we've got all of the levels in final memory, which was our biggest push. Now that all of the features are in, we start optimizing, tweaking, and bug fixing.


Can you tell me more about the progressive mesh? I noticed that things were being generated on the fly, and mountains were just kind of popping up. It's cool in a way, but it probably shouldn't happen.

JE: In the end it comes down to tweaking, and we're probably going to tweak the progressive mesh until the last day. Somebody who is running on a 1080p system and who is really accustomed to look for stuff like that will probably see a little bit of growth here and there. Then again, at least we can do something like that. Without progressive mesh, I don't think that the thing would have been possible, quite frankly.


Are those mountains generated differently each time? What is important about progressive mesh?

JE: Progressive mesh is not only the mountains. Every single thing you can see on screen is running through the SPUs' progressive mesh code. On the landscape, it's basically using more traditional techniques. It is progressive mesh, but we've had landscape generation since the GameCube days. We never had a CPU which was strong enough to do it for the whole world, though. It's really cool.

The big thing on the landscape is the detail level. I don't think any landscape has been done with that level of detail. Back in the day for the GameCube landscapes, the typical approach was to tediously hand-texture everything on the landscape. What the RSX does in Lair is we give the graphics chip a pixel-shader program which is actually a rule set. That makes texturing of landscapes an extremely quick thing.


Why draw from the movie world for your script and score? Obviously they have established good work there, but it's a different industry from ours. What is important about that Hollywood feel versus the game feel?

JE: I don't think that there's a Hollywood feel when it comes to music. I think music is something universal, and I think that we simply don't get the best composers. It has nothing to do with Hollywood, per se. It's just the attraction for someone who writes a good orchestral score, and has a choice between working with movies and games. I still think, sadly enough, that most people choose to work in movies.

The deal with John [Debney] was very unique in the sense that when we thought about using somebody who has mostly been working in movies, I was really afraid of it. On the one hand it was a matter of who can deliver something like John Williams, but on the other hand there was the matter that all of the guys who can do that are probably not interested in games, which means that we're going to get this half-baked soundtrack that doesn't have much to do with the game, and to work with them will be a real pain.

The cool thing about John was when he really started asking the right questions. I think his son had gotten him into video games just a couple of months before we contacted him. He was playing, and he was wondering about the medium. John has an interesting history, because before he became the John Debney we know nowadays, he was actually at Disney and was composing songs for the theme parks. He was very much an on-staff composer back in the '70s. So he has dabbled in the media, because the requirements for theme park music are quite different for what you do for a movie score. He actually tapped back into that experience when he was working on Lair.

We explained that we needed to have pieces which can quickly fade from one piece to another; we can't have long, drawn-out tracks. Normally, every composer would just say, "Come on, you guys, I'll compose you something and you figure it out for your game thing." John really said, "Ah, interesting. Okay, then let's figure this out." It wasn't the Hollywood thing with him specifically.


That's good, because a lot of the time when you get Hollywood composers it ends up like that. It's a game, so obviously the music should be somewhat interactive.

JE: You know how interactive our Star Wars games were. Basically the best example of that is probably when you're landing on the ground. There's drums setting in, in addition to the piece. The whole mood is changing. That was actually created on huge boards which we did with John and our music director. They really mapped out for what motion and what branches are possible at certain moments in the game and in the level.

John really looked at it in his score and said, "I can give you three types of that general theme." The general theme is important, because it's this overall arc that goes through the whole game. But some moments you need something where drums can come in and more tension is created, or it can fade down. He really did all of that collaboratively. It wasn't something that we had to suck out of the material at the very end.


That was really cool. So I hear that you hired on some guys for universe creation?

JE: No, the universe creation we did at Factor 5. We hired the guys when the universe was finished. That was the whole point. We did the whole universe and the basic overarching themes and certain archetypes of characters we knew we would have to have in there. It's the approach that George did with Star Wars. Before he wrote the story, he created the universe.

We had all this pre-design going on. We had a universe, and then we reached out for scriptwriters and basically said, "Here, guys. This is your universe to work in. Now create characters and a plot." That was the process.


Is it worth the extra cost to get that sort of extra world creation, culled together from different cultures' tapestries? Will that ultimately pay off?

JE: Yeah, I think so. The most convincing IPs which are being created in the game space are ones that A) have a vision that's strong, and B) go to that sense of detail. The best examples are with BioWare and their games. Of course they're going to these lengths, otherwise you wouldn't get a believable IP. Some of the other guys out there who create successful IPs always go to that length.


You were saying that if the game is really successful, there will probably be a sequel. How do you measure the success of a game like this, given that we're still in a part of the PlayStation 3's lifecycle where not many consoles have been sold?

JE: In the end, you have to see it in an absolute way. It has to break even. If it breaks even, I think for a new IP that's almost the best thing that can happen. The best thing that can happen is that you've got such a huge installed base that you basically go gangbusters in terms of profit. But quite frankly, for Lair, I would be happy if it breaks even, because that would be something huge already.


What do you think it would take for that? One million units or so?

JE: I don't know, but we'll see.


Can you talk at all about any PSN titles you will be working on?

JE: I cannot talk about it. We're working on it, that's the only thing I can say.


Any progress on Turrican?

JE: Yeah. We've been concepting quite a bit internally. That's another universe creation thing. I was looking at Metroid Prime's reinventing of a franchise that had been out there for quite awhile, and we're facing the same thing with Turrican.

There's aspects of the old games where people will feel betrayed if we don't transform them into the next generation. On the other hand, there's other stuff which is simply cheesy, let's face it. I don't think gamers will accept those things anymore. It's a fine line to balance.


It seems like it would be difficult to get some of those things across, because some of those things really have to do with 2D level design. The way you explored had a lot to do with vertical and horizontal scrolling.

JE: Yeah, 2D was all about world exploration in our games, but also about scale. That is one of the things we've transformed into our 3D games, where it's all about scale from macro to micro. I think some of these elements actually do apply, and they're quite different from what you've seen, say, in Metroid, which has a very rigid design.


So, [in Lair], why are all these guys on the ground when there are all of these dragons in the sky that can tear them to pieces?

JE: That's not true! They have kites on many levels loaded with explosives, so if a dragon approaches too closely, the thing blows up and harms you quite badly. They're not completely exposed.


Do you think you're going to eventually get to a scale of actual warfare? Right now (in the bridge level) you've got like ten guys on the front lines fighting, while everyone else is just waiting in the background going, "Yeah!" I know it's got to be difficult because you've got to separate the blue army from the red.

JE: That's the inherent problem. It's not so much the problem of displaying all of these guys, it's how you then interact. You immediately get punished if you start whacking your own guys too much. That's why we kept it separate. It's a tricky design issue.

I know that if we should do a sequel, we want to refine the army combat for sure. It's a tricky case, because you're this monster, a tank in the middle of a bunch of guys, so you would probably kill too many of your own. Having said that, though, there certainly should be ways of getting more fights next to you going, so that they also cleverly avoid you so that you don't accidentally kill too many of your guys.


It's interesting how design scope kind of explodes when you get these worlds so much bigger. When you're getting close to realism, it calls all of your old tropes into question.

JE: But it actually helps the gameplay so much in ways you didn't imagine. You're kind of afraid of it in the beginning, because you're saying, "Oh boy, the old tricks won't work. I don't know what the player is going to do." But embrace it, because in the end, as we've seen in Lair, those levels are the best ones.

There's quite a few plate-spinning levels where you have sandbox-like gameplay, and they are by far the best. They're so cool.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Awesome. July can't get here any sooner.

[dnpmakkah]

Does the part about the armies mean that the soldiers will continue to be zombie like in the final product?

[NeoPlayStation]

Nice find, VG.
+rep.

Did you have to hand-animate the dragons? I saw videos of the mocap that was done for the humans, down at SCEA San Diego – it was really nice.

JE: The dragons obviously have to be hand-animated. There aren't any dragons to motion capture!

LOL.

[curryking1]

There's... komodo dragons... ;P

[GTAce]

:lol:

Sorry VG cant rep you. 8(
I owe you one lol.

[acousticvan]

How do we give reps to someone?

Thanks,

[LaLiLuLeLo]

you have no powa! so you can't really rep anyone.. where it says rep power, on the right side of your username, there's a zero. your rep power grows as other people +rep you, and your post count goes up.

[frosty]

You have to hit 200 posts to get rep power.

[Sephiroth_VII]

How do we give reps to someone?

Thanks,

Follow the instructions given in the attached image once you reach 200 posts.

[curryking1]

Dammit! I should've posted something. I wanted my avatar to be in the picture....

[LaLiLuLeLo]

don't be such a ho curryking. we know you exist. it's okay :)

[Epix]

Seph's on an attachment bing today...:salute:

[user friendly]

There's... komodo dragons... ;P

And Bearded Dragons.

[Shogun042]

nice interview. can't wait for this game.

[Domination]

New interview with Julian. Long and great! (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20070424/sheffield_04.shtml)


Good read. Lair sounds like it's shaping up quite nicely.

[mario25]

Everybody in this forum PLEASE BUY LAIR (except the xbots) so we can help it to breakeven OK....if not....you'll see :matrix:

[BecomeAnHero]

And Bearded Dragons.

what about...

Bearded Komodo Dragons?

[VG Aficionado]

Another Lair interview. I think these are the highlights:

Lair devs: "We were blown away by Cell" (http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=110348)

When you were designing Lair, what about the PS3 was really surprising or even amazing to you?

The most amazing thing for us always is the scope. We are about wanting to see large 32-by-32-kilometer/mile levels, but at the same time, being able to land and have intricate detail almost on the level of a first person shooter. That has never been possible before, and in the last game we did (Rebel Strike for the GameCube), you basically had the flight parts, and when you landed, it would load up at a completely different level that had ground scale. You would basically cheat around that, which really prevented you from doing a lot of the cool stuff that you wanted to do in terms of game design, such as seamlessly going back and forth to get a little more emergent game play going there and not be as linear. So, our big question with the PS3 was: "Can it do it?"

And the answer is...?

[Laughs] We were blown away by Cell. Not so much by the graphics chip because that was basically what was known and what we expected, but the Cell suddenly made it possible to use techniques in Lair that we had talked about before, but which we never thought a system would be fast enough to actually support. We were able to make this insane level of detail changes possible from the very, very highest point up in the sky all the way to the ground.

In what other ways does Lair take advantage of the Cell?

We have all of our animations running on the S.P.U.s of the Cell's chip because you couldn't draw armies or basically animate armies of that amount and size without it. And our physics are completely on there. We are also doing fluid dynamics for the first time in a game, as far as I know. Water is not basically a sheet of a base surface, but completely animated and sub-divided, and you actually can direct with it thanks to the Cell. We actually do part of our rendering on the Cell. Simply because it's so powerful, we spent months and months moving more and more systems onto the S.P.U.'s.

Do you dedicate one S.P.U. to enemy A.I.?

Not a specific S.P.U. Our S.P.U. code works dynamically, so we are not locking up one S.P.U. and saying "OK, you are the A.I. S.P.U., but we instead say, "OK, here are these 15 things including A.I." We run them on the S.P.U., and the code automatically distributes them. And sometimes, yes, A.I. certainly can take up a full S.P.U.

Is there a multiplayer mode for this game or an online mode?

There is an online mode, so we are permanently integrated into a network platform. Inside the game, you'll have community features, such as messaging between players. You'll also have leader boards and online stats, which I think is very important because we have a replay value system very similar to the Rogue Squadron's where you earn medals. You'll basically want to track your stats against other the guy's to see what he did to get that gold medal.

We don't have multiplayer because we had so many other systems to figure out for the first time, especially the fight aspects for a flight game that nobody ever tried before. So we spent enough time with that, and basically, to do multiplayer on top of that really wasn't feasible.

Now, if people like Lair and we do a sequel, which we certainly would love to, then of course multiplayer will be on the table.

[jaxmkii]

^ kinda makes you wonder what if they just didn't bother with RSX and just installed 2 or 4 cells insted.

[VG Aficionado]

PS3 was meant to have 2 Cell chips instead of Cell + RSX. I think developers would have had a very tough time though.

[frosty]

VERY tough time. Plus Cell just isn't as good at those sort of things, so it wouldn't provide the power RSX has.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Basically, which is why the took it out in the first place and went to nVidia.

[VonGak]

Please do not say that SONY had initial plans about using a CELL as GPU, the game developers and SCEI engineers will just rip your heads off.

No matter how powerful the CELL would have been a more powerful specialized GPU would have been possible with the same transistor budget (silicon die).
Not forgetting that even if the CELL FLOP performance had been the same as the one of the GPU the CELL would still have been worse at graphics because the CELL FLOPs aren't specialized.

It's like saying that the people at SONY do not know what they are doing. :)

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I do remember them experimenting and being in talks about using a dual-cell architecture. At the very least they were researching the possibility before any of this came to fruition, and scrapped it to approach nVidia later on.

[Domination]

Please do not say that SONY had initial plans about using a CELL as GPU, the game developers and SCEI engineers will just rip your heads off.

No matter how powerful the CELL would have been a more powerful specialized GPU would have been possible with the same transistor budget (silicon die).
Not forgetting that even if the CELL FLOP performance had been the same as the one of the GPU the CELL would still have been worse at graphics because the CELL FLOPs aren't specialized.

It's like saying that the people at SONY do not know what they are doing. :)

Actually, they did but Ken felt that there were things the Cell just weren't able to achieve that a GPU could. Thus Sony went with the RSX and used Cell as an assisting GPU since it was better at certain tasks than a GPU, hence you have a balance relationship, as far as graphics, between the two processors. I can get you a quote if you need me to.

[curryking1]

So basically, the Cell, now, can be used to help the RSX in things devs want it to do more, and it can also do few, and very specific, but helpful things better than the RSX as well.

[Domination]

So basically, the Cell, now, can be used to help the RSX in things devs want it to do more, and it can also do few, and very specific, but helpful things better than the RSX as well.

Exactly.

[VonGak]

Actually, they did but Ken felt that there were things the Cell just weren't able to achieve that a GPU could. Thus Sony went with the RSX and used Cell as an assisting GPU since it was better at certain tasks than a GPU, hence you have a balance relationship, as far as graphics, between the two processors. I can get you a quote if you need me to.
Remember to getthe quote in its context and instead of showing it to me you should put it up on B3D. :D

[Z]

When you were designing Lair, what about the PS3 was really surprising or even amazing to you?

The most amazing thing for us always is the scope. We are about wanting to see large 32-by-32-kilometer/mile levels, but at the same time, being able to land and have intricate detail almost on the level of a first person shooter. That has never been possible before, and in the last game we did (Rebel Strike for the GameCube), you basically had the flight parts, and when you landed, it would load up at a completely different level that had ground scale. You would basically cheat around that, which really prevented you from doing a lot of the cool stuff that you wanted to do in terms of game design, such as seamlessly going back and forth to get a little more emergent game play going there and not be as linear. So, our big question with the PS3 was: "Can it do it?"
which Lair and especially WarHawk really show off that ability. seeing an online multiplayer splitscreen ground level in the latter with many gamers running and gunning then one of them hijacks a plane and then soars into an online, multiplayer splitscreen filled sky all in real time, all butter smooth is just...by3ond. extremely amazing no matter how you look at it. simply wow.

[Domination]

Remember to getthe quote in its context and instead of showing it to me you should put it up on B3D. :D

I'll make you a deal, I'll quote Ken, give you the source, and you can post it anywhere you like. ;)

IPW: The most surprising thing about the PS3's architecture is that its graphics are not processed by the Cell. Why didn't you make a Cell-based GPU?

KK: Cell's seven Synergistic Processor Elements (SPE) can be used for graphics. In fact, some of the demos at E3 were running without a graphics processor, with all the renderings done with just the Cell. However, that kind of usage is a real waste. There are a lot of other things that should be done with the Cell. One of our ideas was to equip two Cell chips and to use one as a GPU, but we concluded that there were differences between the Cell to be used as a computer chip and as a shader, since a shader should be graphics-specific. The Cell has an architecture where it can do anything, although its SPE can be used to handle things such as displacement mapping. Prior to PS3, real-time rendered 3D graphics might have looked real, but they weren't actually calculated in a fully 3D environment. But that was OK for screen resolutions up until now. Even as of the current time, most of the games for the Xbox 360 use that kind of 3D. However, we want to realize fully calculated 3D graphics in fully 3D environments. In order to do that, we need to share the data between the CPU and GPU as much as possible. That's why we adopted this architecture. We want to make all the floating-point calculations including their rounded numbers the same, and we've been able to make it almost identical. So as a result, the CPU and GPU can use their calculated figures bidirectionally.

Ken Kutaragi's interview Part 3

I can get you a direct link if you still need it, but I figured a search under the topic here wouldn't be hard to find at all.

You may also want to checkout the PLAYSTATION Edge (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=70520&highlight=Cell) topic.

[VonGak]

I'll make you a deal, I'll quote Ken, give you the source, and you can post it anywhere you like. ;)



I can get you a direct link if you still need it, but I figured a search under the topic here wouldn't be hard to find at all.

You may also want to checkout the PLAYSTATION Edge (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=70520&highlight=Cell) topic.

Maybe in the initial planning stage they have been considering the possibilities with CELL but they never had any hardware up and running.

My point is just that RSX wasn't an afterthought when everything else failed, an ongoing spin found on boards like SW. :)

[curryking1]

It might've not have been a total after thought, but it was certainly a drastic change in plans. Which makes sense. When it doesn't work as well as you want it to, fix it! :)

[VonGak]

It might've not have been a total after thought, but it was certainly a drastic change in plans. Which makes sense. When it doesn't work as well as you want it to, fix it! :)

Developers never had any white specs about a CELL GPU and they can be quite vocal about it.

Also Ken has told why they went with a PC GPU for PS3, the vision to make PS3 a computer.

[Domination]

Maybe in the initial planning stage they have been considering the possibilities with CELL but they never had any hardware up and running.

My point is just that RSX wasn't an afterthought when everything else failed, an ongoing spin found on boards like SW. :)

I understand what you're saying, and no I don't in any way believe that it was an after thought, but rather something you discover when you began testing the processor to see just what it is and isn't capable of doing, hence the reason Ken says one of their ideas was to implement two Cells into the console...

[VonGak]

I understand what you're saying, and no I don't in any way believe that it was an after thought, but rather something you discover when you began testing the processor to see just what it is and isn't capable of doing, hence the reason Ken says one of their ideas was to implement two Cells into the console...

But hardware isn't needed to see this, it's simple math done on paper and on simulation tools.

I'll agree if whe confine the two CELL plan to the initial planning stage. :)

[VG Aficionado]

PSU interview with Julian:

PSU interviews Julian Eggebrecht on Lair (http://www.psu.com/node/10510)
Added on 01/05/2007.

PSU recently had the chance to interview with Factor 5’s co-founder and president, Julian Eggebrecht about his inspiring new game called ‘Lair’ for PlayStation 3.

What is the story behind the characters and civilizations at war in Lair?

The Asylians and Mokai split many generations ago over different interpretations of god. Both left their place of origin and settled at opposite ends of the continent. When the game starts, the world is on the brink of starvation due to water and food shortages, which are being caused by a global warming of sorts. Volcanic activity has ravaged especially the Mokai land and the war breaks out due to their desperation. Your hero, Rohn, is part of the Asylian military. He is an ace pilot in a squadron of so-called “burners”. With their dragons, these guys support the troops from the air and on the ground.


What sort of fiction did you take your inspiration from for the design of the dragons and some of the other creatures we've seen? Any other games that inspired the artists?

We deliberately tried to not be inspired by one specific take on dragons. There was a very deliberate attempt to make our dragons in a believable way, as if Evolution simply took a different turn and these creatures evolved. In fact we used this approach for all of our fantastic creatures, as opposed to mining other media, games, or references. We did compare our dragons to depictions in movies and games, but only to verify that we were unique and didn’t accidentally use elements used elsewhere.


How do you feel about possibly being the first game to really show what the PS3 can do? What would you say to developers not taking advantage of its potential at all?

I certainly would say so as to one game showing all. You do see nice Cell usage in some games, you do see the graphics hardware stretched in others, and there are games out there using the Sixaxis a bit, but there is no game that brings it all together in one package. That’s what we are trying to do with Lair.


Will there be any customization with the dragons or characters? If so, can you give some examples?

I would give away plot-points if I would tell you, so sorry!


How many different enemy creatures do you have planned for Lair?

There are quite a few – there is a whole range of ground army types, horses, and more advanced beasts like the Taurus and elephant-like warbeasts. In the air, we have flying mantae filled with Hydrogen, different dragon races and types, and several types of spider-like flying insects.


Will there be destructible environments and if so to what extent?

You can set things on fire, and oftentimes you can also destroy them. It really depends on the environment, but in one area you can lay waste to a whole city.


Do you plan to incorporate other modes outside of the single player campaign?

As for multiplayer modes, no, we are keeping that for potential sequels. We try to give you as much replay value as possible due to an advanced medal and rewards system, though.


What features/items do you have planned for PlayStation Home? Can you give us an example of one of the trophies that players can earn for their trophy showroom?

If you watched Phil Harrison’s keynote at GDC, there were quite a few Lair-related things in his Home-demo. I think we glimpsed a dragon trophy there. But there will be more…


Will there be downloadable content for Lair after the game releases?

We would love to pick up story strings that had to be dropped due to our schedule; those levels would fit right in and would make the game into a true director’s cut. In addition, we are talking about new armor types and other upgrades to help the player. Well, and then there is of course the issue of additional dragon types. It all really depends on the success of the initial Blu-ray release.


Do you plan on releasing a demo on the PSN before the game ships? If so, when can we expect to see it?

I don’t know about the “when” just yet, but I expect that we will do a demo.

[VG Aficionado]

We all know G4TV sucks, but apparently there's a good Lair preview here among others (Warhawk, Mercs2, Hellgate: London, The Darkness, Stanglehold and more):

http://www.g4tv.com/pile_player.aspx?video_key=16148

[9thPower]

VG see G4TV!?? This is Blasphemy!! Lol, J/k nice find! Nice interview and preview.

[VG Aficionado]

A good selection of Lair videos I just stole from PS3forums:

G4 preview <-must watch

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pfe6Jn0eYks

Oct 4th 06 video interview

http://youtube.com/watch?v=N5696zKDvGI

April 15 video interview

http://youtube.com/watch?v=t4Ht893biSk

1up preview
http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/10722

Other videos
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=19743&type=wmv&pl=game

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=19722&type=wmv&pl=gameThe latest footage has to be the best one in terms of polish. This post is aimed at those who are still feeling "meh" about Lair. Remember that a demo is coming next month too.

[Shogun042]

btw Lair got moved to August 7th.

http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3

[LiquidEagle]

Cool... demo's supposed to be in June, right? The August release date was to be expected (from the Gamer's Day announcement), and I'm glad it's early August :)

[NeoPlayStation]

New screens, artworks and more (http://ruliweb.empas.com/ruliboard/read.htm?table=game_ps04&num=27093&main=ps)

[evillion]

Lair is beyond PWNAGE.
http://i15.tinypic.com/4zw0fad.jpg


Mod Edit: It's not nice to rape people's H-Scroll. Nice pic, but resize it or link it please.

[curryking1]

*points* Look at ze bad texturez!

Nice find, the technical side is totally nuts, but I can't say I'm a fan of a lot of the gameplay stuff lol.

[dnpmakkah]

I think graphics will be fine (maybe not great) but will suffice. From what I'm gathering I think the story will be one of those epic tales. I agree with the gameplay. This will be a new experience for me so I'm not sure if I will like it or not. I can see why some might think it could get boring and repetitive.

[LiquidEagle]

*points* Look at ze bad texturez!

Nice find, the technical side is totally nuts, but I can't say I'm a fan of a lot of the gameplay stuff lol.

Do you even own a PS3 yet? :laugh:

Rudeness aside, a lot of that artwork looks sweet. Can't wait for this game :)

[VG Aficionado]

Lair pwns j00.

[curryking1]

Do you even own a PS3 yet? :laugh:

Why must you hurt!!??!?1!?!2? :cry2:

*starts playing PS1 games*

HA! I have more AAA games than your itty bitty PS3! TAKE THAT! *throws PS1 at Liquid*

[LaLiLuLeLo]

*PS3 eats PS1*

[user friendly]

Link (http://ruliweb4.empas.com:8080/ruliboard/gup/img_link6/144/143066_3.jpg)


This is from an old build right. It looks so ... bleh. Most of the other screens look good but this one is just appalling.

[LiquidEagle]

403 people are forbidding me to access that picture, user_friendly. At least that's what I think it means.

What I've seen of the game has me convinced that it's friggin' beautiful, so it doesn't really matter what "new" screens I see, I know what the game looks like in motion and it's fantastic :)

Get a PS3, Curry! See what all the chatter is about on this board! :laugh:

[VG Aficionado]

Screenshots do no justice to Lair anyway.

[user friendly]

Yeah it does look good while in motion but man that dragon looks square, it must be from an older build or just crappy timing to take a screencap of.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Curryking get a job man. Lol. I made 7 dollars an hour and ate ramen all last summer to save up for a PS3. If I can do it, you can too.

[curryking1]

LOL! Hating on the brown man! Racism! Racialism!!1!

Lol j/k, I have a job, I get 9.50/h from a full time summer job. I made like three grand last summer, but I haven't spent a dime of it.

(I don't spend my own money basically lol, I don't have a PS3 because I haven't asked for it yet lol)

[VG Aficionado]

ate ramen all last summerEither you actually ate some other things or you had scurvy.

[curryking1]

Ew... rumen...

[Diresu]

Hey! Don't diss Ramen. Its the College kids food of champions (or because there is nothin else)

[curryking1]

I said ew rumen! Not ramen! I don't even know what that is, isn't it like noodles and meat or something? lol.

[Diresu]

I said ew rumen! Not ramen! I don't even know what that is, isn't it like noodles and meat or something? lol.

...Ooh I see what you did there....What the heck is a Rumen? You should totally trademark that and release a new type of Ramen...

[Shogun042]

mmm scurvey

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Either you actually ate some other things or you had scurvy.

I ate other stuff here and there, but cereal, sandwiches and ramen were most of my diet. Occassionally ate out.

But I love ramen. Mmm.... put some hotsauce in it, it's the best.

[curryking1]

You want to eat.. ruminant animal digestive system parts Diresu?

...

Your funeral man hahahah. But if you keep buying it, I guess I can make it for you :P

[Diresu]

You want to eat.. ruminant animal digestive system parts Diresu?

...

Your funeral man hahahah. But if you keep buying it, I guess I can make it for you :P

I said I didn't know what it was :( *sigh* Should have seen that coming...

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I ate other stuff here and there, but cereal, sandwiches and ramen were most of my diet. Occassionally ate out.

But I love ramen. Mmm.... put some hotsauce in it, it's the best.

LOL Edit: *To the tune of 'what would you do for a klondike bar'*

WHAT WOULD YOU DO FOR A P-S-3?

Would you eat ramen for 2 and a half months? Would you risk getting scurvy?

My reply: Hmmm...welll.. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/Lalilulelo/DSCN3652.jpg)

[curryking1]

Lolli is being devious!

Lol @ Diresu XD

[Diresu]

Hm to stay on topic. I wonder if people in Lair eat dragon flavored Ramen instead of chicken and beef...

[curryking1]

I thought dragons eat cows!? So they'd definitely be eating some delicious rumen too.

[VG Aficionado]

Dragons eat crossdressed colossi, you illiterate bunch. It's a scientific fact.

[yoshaw]

0_0

You guys don't need a job!! Ya'll need a LIFEEE!!!!

LOLZering @ VG's comment. You guys aren't gonna let me off the hook, are ya? lol

[Diresu]

...ew...doesn't sound to good to me.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

http://www.ntsb.gov/events/1999/bourbonnais/amtrak5.jpg

alright alright, back on track gents :)

[Raitei]

THe screens are ok but, meh. Its so much nicer in motion, and lali, you look the orangest iver seen a person in that picture

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Haha, it's all about the color levels.

[CreativeWriter]

...ew...doesn't sound to good to me.

You know you're poor when you start using ramen as a base ingredient for recipes. I did Spicy Cheese Ramen Noodles (drain juice add grated pepper jack cheese) and Ramen Lo Mein. Good times. One summer during college I just ate ramen and played Diablo 2 after work every day. Now, I haven't eaten ramen in 4 or 5 years... Chef Boyardee Mini-Raviolis FTW.

[Diresu]

You know you're poor when you start using ramen as a base ingredient for recipes. I did Spicy Cheese Ramen Noodles (drain juice add grated pepper jack cheese) and Ramen Lo Mein. Good times. One summer during college I just ate ramen and played Diablo 2 after work every day. Now, I haven't eaten ramen in 4 or 5 years... Chef Boyardee Mini-Raviolis FTW.

LoL Yea well you gotta hand it to the creative cooking that Ramen sparked. I am yet to find a replacement though I am not eating a lot, not nearly as much as before.

[yoshaw]

=-o

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2007/06/06/103,1181131639,72962,0,0.html

[karibu]

=-o

http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/2007/06/06/103,1181131639,72962,0,0.html

Haha, love this babel fish translation 'place t Shaun 3'.

[mario25]

I don't understand a thing, could someone please point me north?

[Epix]

Release Date: 8/8/07

1 more trailer coming. Not sure if the demo is still a go or not.

http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/Games/Lair

[OmniCloud]

A demo would be nice...How long is it taking these guys to make a freakin PSN demo? (Not talking about Factor 5, just in general)

Sheesh, how many guys does it take to make a few levels for users to sample? Where's the PSN love 3rd party?:rant:

[VG Aficionado]

I say we will get the demo around E3, when the final build is ready to be replicated.

[curryking1]

Omni, just for you, around, after, before E3, I hope the PSN explodes with demos just for you lol.

[OmniCloud]

Tks Curry;)

[Applefiend]

9 Lair videos, this new?

http://www.playsyde.com/news_4504_en.html

[tolkyn]

I love the music, it makes it so dramatic.

[yoshaw]

9 Lair videos, this new?

http://www.playsyde.com/news_4504_en.html

The date is of today, pics show lighting is improved. Thx +rep :thumbl:

Off to viewing them all.

[BruceWayneIII]

Some of them show new scenes. The scale of the game - especially the large city - is just unbelievable. I wish they did a better job capturing footage. Compression is really rough.

[VG Aficionado]

A lot of ownage here :)

I wish they did a better job capturing footage. Compression is really rough.Some of the videos are converted from flash, so they'll look like crap. The final game should be very sharp.

[warmachine]

They improved the effects a lot! Finally the fire looks like fire and also the water splashes look a lot better.
Low-res texture torture my eye though... :(

I want a demo!!! -_-

[yoshaw]

I expect EGM to not give this rave reviews. Hope I'm wrong. It does seem , obvious in some places, that it could use more refinement.

Liking what I see regardless.

[karibu]

Didn't watch those videos, but fire was looking alot better in pictures alone.
BTW, does those boats just sink or does parts of wood float after exposion?
It would look extremely stupid if they'd sink like rock, but look ultimately cool if there was some shit floating.

[section]

Madre de Dios, this game is off the hook now, officially.

[Segitz]

DLing now... 350k max bandwidth sure aint enough!

[evillion]

what the hell? those pictures looked awful or ma i missing something, they looked really blurry and washed out, and the ground, the smoke are downgraded compared to old shots.
old shot
http://i12.tinypic.com/54e7xaq.jpg
new shot
http://i19.tinypic.com/4ms4o0n.jpg

i hope factor5 really address those downgrades, they can not fu ck this title up.

[Fats]

Isn't the second image a screen cap?

[evillion]

god i hope it is, i havent c all the videos yet, can anyone confirm how good the ground textures are in videos?

[FLCL]

god i hope it is, i havent c all the videos yet, can anyone confirm how good the ground textures are in videos?

take it easy this is just very hard video compression, usually it washes out surfaces while excluding edges, so it lost all texture and shader details :mad:

[section]

Just watch the 720P videos and you won't talk about downgrades again :) My PC wouldn't play those without constant twitching so u better watch 'em with yer PS3.

And again, man I'm floored. Thought I wouldn't be amazed with this title anymore :D The music really adds up the ante, goosebumps all the way with the classical pathos.

[evillion]

Thanks FLCL for pointing it out, thats wat i thought too. this game means so much to me, i bought a ps3 solely for this game.

[Z]

what the hell? those pictures looked awful or ma i missing something, they looked really blurry and washed out, and the ground, the smoke are downgraded compared to old shots.


A lot of ownage here :)

Some of the videos are converted from flash, so they'll look like crap. The final game should be very sharp.

[evillion]

[QUOTE=sct-i/on;1578203]Just watch the 720P videos and you won't talk about downgrades again :) My PC wouldn't play those without constant twitching so u better watch 'em with yer PS3.
QUOTE]
cheers mate, thanks for letting me know. 720p download starten.

[qzak]

Two words: cool!

Up until now, Lair hasn't been sitting at the top of everyone's Most Anticipated lists beside Metal Gear Solid and Killzone 2. But that, we're willing to bet, is about to change.

Lair's graphical prowess hits you like a bus the moment you start the first level. It has that Factor 5 touch. You leap onto your dragon and launch into the air, and it stuns you with its ultra-high-detail environments that stretch far into the distance for you to gawp at as you soar through the sky on your giant dragon.

Factor 5 clearly still knows how to get a console's chips ticking, as it did when it produced the technically stunning Star Wars: Rogue Squadron games on GameCube.


The first of the six levels we played during our exclusive hands-on is particularly stunning. A town with literally hundreds of buildings is sprawled out in a sort of canyon between two huge mountains. This awesome scene overlooks the sea, with the most amazing water ripple being lit up by a gorgeous sunset. In 1080p on a on a big screen, it really is a sight to see.

Another level has you flying around at night, in which a torrential downpour splashes water off your dragon's wings as they flap, and fierce lightening strikes light up the whole screen for a split second, momentarily revealing the impressively bump-mapped textures of the towering rocky surfaces around you before the whole scene plunges back into near complete darkness. It's awesome stuff.

It's an extremely cinematic game, with its top-notch visuals paired up with an epic, loud orchestral soundtrack and a motion control system that literally has you leaning with the action (as you should already know, you control the dragons by tilting the SixAxis).

Our favourite level is set along a river down which ships full of your men and equipment are sailing. Your primary objective is to protect them until they're safely within the confines of the city walls at the far end of the river.

You start off zooming down the river to maul a group of armour-wearing thugs that have decided to mess up one of your watch towers. Spying the troublesome group in the distance, you swoop down, yanking the L2 and R2 triggers to make your dragon slam on the brakes and land, before stomping over to maul their asses.

The ground combat is simple but satisfying. Dozens (and sometimes hundreds and even more) of soldiers surround you with their puny swords. You have choices at this point. Swing the controller left and right violently (or tap X if you're fat and lazy) to make your dragon batter through them like rag dolls, hammer Square to spit fireballs and roast them all or, our favourite, slam Triangle to snare a dude in your mouth and eat him.

Again, this all looks amazing. As your dragon grips a soldier between its teeth the game occasionally switches to slow-mo and gives you a cinematic panning view of the action. The game is so huge and the soldiers are so small, yet you can still see their limbs reacting with realistic weight and momentum as the dragon thrashes around, and they drop their weapons which fall to the ground.

You wouldn't expect such fine detail in a game with such wide open scale.

Anyway, back to the mission. Once those punks are dealt with, you can take out what we can only describe as a giant cargo dragon - they're a bit like giant airborne stingrays with snouts and teeth, and carry what looks like crates of explosives in their gut. Blowing that thing up is awesome - it causes one of the most violent explosions we've ever seen in a game, whiting out the whole screen and scattering bits of bloody flesh hundreds of feet around it.

Then you're summoned to take out catapults that are battering your cargo ships. Pulling the two triggers takes off again, which the dragon does with much ferocity. The catapults are no match for your fireballs of death. You just swoop in and drop your fiery load like a pile of the world's deadliest bird shit.

Some Ice dragons turn up. They're dragons like you, but they spit ice. Pussies. Again, read our other hands-on preview for a detailed rundown of how aerial battle is controlled. Needless to say it's pretty good fun. The lock-on and charging system rids the game of the typical boring dogfight syndrome in which you and opponents fly in circles until one of you catches sight of the opponent to shoot. None of that here.


The grand finale of the level is to guard the city gates as the boats enter. This is epic.

You fly to the gates where there awaits an army of literally thousands of little men. Not hundreds, thousands - stretching into the far distance. Granted, it seems the closer ones, the first couple of hundred maybe, are the most animated, while the rest follow a slightly less detailed pattern of movement. But come on, guys - there are thousands of men on the screen. It looks amazing!

Excited, we landed to start hyper-slapping our way through them all. Unfortunately though, once you've destroyed the four catapult towers - the main threat to the city walls - and the boats enter the gates, the level ends.

Seriously though - what a rush.

We were concerned for the level of variety in missions, but Factor 5 seems to have it covered. One level has you blowing up ships at sea. Another sees you and a team of five other dragons stage an assault on a massive stone tower with a giant revolving head at the top that seeks you out with spotlights in its eyes and blasts you with lethal cluster bombs. You have to take out its eyes then fly into its mouth to mess up its insides.

We fought a boss too; an insanely huge snake thingy that arches in and out of the sea below like the Loch Ness monster, and rearing its ugly head to spit some nasty black stuff at you.

You often hear people say that graphics are far less important than a game's gameplay. That's true. But Lair is one of those games which proves that extremely high-quality visuals and sound have a massive impact on the experience. They make the difference between a fun game and a mind-blowing, cinematic ordeal.

That's what Lair is.


I had big concerns about this game. But I would REALLY like to have it be great, especially as it's the 3rd title out for the console that could be considered AA. I have...a few less worries now, and I think I'll purchase it in any case, just to see what my PS3 can really do.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=166825

[Z]

I loved the air melee combat. :)

[Sephiroth_VII]

Me too. I hope they add more moves though, the TGS demo I played got boring after a while of close quarters combat. After 15 minutes, I just switched to fireballs.

[BruceWayneIII]

Ah wow. They certaintly seemed impressed. :)

[VG Aficionado]

Several new environments are shown in one of the videos. And I like what I saw :hugegrin:

[LaLiLuLeLo]

This game is gonna rock. c'mon august.

[Siraris]

They took the videos down :(

[LaLiLuLeLo]

damn. really?

[SleazyBig slim]

They took the videos down :(

There up on this site.

http://www.playsyde.com/news_4504_en.html

And these vids are PS3 compatible so you can view them in there hi def glory on your TV via your PS3 browser.

[Nameless]

Here's a couple of pics to drool over... :drool:

http://generationdreamteam.free.fr/afrika/lair/lairjuinnew13.jpg

Now imagine next-gen SOTC :shocked:

http://generationdreamteam.free.fr/afrika/lair/lairjuinnew11.jpg

http://generationdreamteam.free.fr/afrika/lair/lairjuinnew21.jpg

http://generationdreamteam.free.fr/afrika/lair/lairjuinnew22.jpg

http://generationdreamteam.free.fr/afrika/lair/lairjuinnew29.jpg

I guess the next-gen will start this fall...

[Z]

this one makes me speechless... (http://generationdreamteam.free.fr/afrika/lair/lairjuinnew11.jpg)
no seriously, the things going on in just that one frame. the very definition of w.o.w.

[Pluto]

In the first two images that sea serpent didn't seem to have any facial detail. [ Due to absence of lighting? ]

Besides that, this looks like it's going to be a very epic game.

[CreativeWriter]

Lighting does appear to be strangely absent sometimes. Hopefully they're still working on the game. Some parts of the vids looked great, while others seemed... incomplete. Hope Sony isn't pushing this one out the door too soon. Framerate seems an issue, and the ground soldiers still have no shadows/look like sprites from a distance.

Sound is great/epic. My wife even came in and asked what movie I was watching. Hooray for that.

It is nice to see some color in the game world. Looks like our fears of a "dull, gray" universe were unfounded.

[Shogun042]

^ yup. looks pretty damn awesome but with noticeable bits of work left to be done. hey i'll wait another month because there's enough games this summer to keep me busy (Madden anyone?)

[Nameless]

This is a tough crowd...
The game looks damn impressive to me and I can't wait to give the demo a go in the near future.

[OmniCloud]

You guys just have to watch the videos in HD...pics and scans don''t do it justice...

There's a few videos out there that really go toe-to-toe with the best visuals the PS3 has yet demonstrated.

Not speaking on gameplay (yet it definitely looks like it will live up to the hype) but graphically, there isn't anything shabby about lair in the least bit...

The draw distance is beyond break-taking...I might just have to get this game on day one simply for the amazing visuals...

[Junox50]

Two words: cool!



I had big concerns about this game. But I would REALLY like to have it be great, especially as it's the 3rd title out for the console that could be considered AA. I have...a few less worries now, and I think I'll purchase it in any case, just to see what my PS3 can really do.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=166825

This is really turning into my kind of game. Lair is defiantly turning into a must have.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

In the first two images that sea serpent didn't seem to have any facial detail. [ Due to absence of lighting? ]

Besides that, this looks like it's going to be a very epic game.

Absence of lighting? That would be a black screen.:whip:

[LiquidEagle]

:lol:

From what I played last October (which is before some hefty changes were implemented, not to mention the usual tuning that goes on), the game is very solid to play, and if you enjoy flying a Warhawk with controller tilt (which you should), you'll enjoy this :)

[Red_Eyes]

WTF. Those screens look amazing. A great graphical update. Absence of lighting? You telling me you can't see the lighting and shadows? WTF. The image is just very dark. But even so, there's so lighting and shadows.

[raVen]

As someone who's been doubting this the latest batch of videos has me really exciting for this game; the story seems solid, some game play variations, the scale, and this looks like one game I'll want to use sixaxis with I thought Warhawk would be and don't get me wrong its fun but its easier to control without it.

[section]

The framerate isn't rock solid, especially with the explosions, but you can kinda forgive that considering the game is 1080P and there are gazillion objects flying around, and they have really upgraded the flames, = not sprites anymore.

Been watching them new videos over and over and over again and still can't get enough :) Would rather play the demo though... *hint all you Sony PR personnel reading this*

[BruceWayneIII]

^ the video quality is not really good enough to judge framerate issues. I am sure Factor 5 will do everything to make the frame rate solid - once the final game launches. There's still time for polish and optimizing.

[Viper]

http://generationdreamteam.free.fr/afrika/lair/lairjuinnew11.jpg

It's like an update to one of the 3DMark tests.

Factor 5 never ceases to pull out a machines capabilities faster than anyone else.

[woundingchaney]

This game gets my nomination for roller coaster ride of next gen. It seems every time media is released on this game its either "Man that is looking good" or "What the hell happened".


Nothing about Lair really stands out to me and blows me away, its the compilation of so many aspects being done well that makes this title impressive. Instead of making a title with one or two mind blowing aspects F5 has really created a title that is visually very well rounded and solid (IMO).

[dnpmakkah]

The in-game graphics look good some of the times and wierd other times. I think the fact that the gameplay at times looks sketchy which in turn makes the graphics look strange too. However the scripted cutscene, voice acting, audio and story seem to be very well thought out. That opening scene where the priest is talking looks like a very well made movie.

[section]

http://generationdreamteam.free.fr/afrika/lair/lairjuinnew11.jpg

It's like an update to one of the 3DMark tests.

Factor 5 never ceases to pull out a machines capabilities faster than anyone else.3DMark is the word :) Just what this reminded me of, the funny guy in a flying ship hunting the gigantic sea serpent, although the beast was small one compared to this :D

Though it was a bit better textured but mind you, it was just a tech demo which ran at 10 fps at that time, in 2005, at least on my "low high-end" computer.

[BruceWayneIII]

The in-game graphics look good some of the times and wierd other times. I think the fact that the gameplay at times looks sketchy which in turn makes the graphics look strange too. However the scripted cutscene, voice acting, audio and story seem to be very well thought out. That opening scene where the priest is talking looks like a very well made movie.

I think that what we see is a mix of old and newer, more polished scenes. I am sure that the graphical quality won't fluctuate that much in the final product.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Dogmatic bible banging high society versus the multi-faceted not-quite evil enemies.

Boy didn't see that coming. Still it's a timeless theme, just like picking on story tellers (being one). Can't wait for LAIR. COME ON August.

[Pluto]

Absence of lighting? That would be a black screen.:whip:

Absence of lighting on the creature's face, as there are huge portions of the creatures face that are infact BLACK and not visible.. :wave:

[Z]

I want the specs on that huge sea serpent!

[LaLiLuLeLo]

That's called the shadow, on his face...because, the other side of his face is lit. The light source, which is there, isn't hitting that side of his face.

When light hits an object, it doesn't hit every side the same way.

DAAAHHHH.

[Pluto]

That's called the shadow, on his face...because, the other side of his