Has the PS3 equalled the CG targets?

[cliffbo]

as each day passes and new pics and movies are released, the games are improving by leaps and bounds. there was talk, for instance that the latest pictures of Resistance had been touched up, but having seen those GLORIOUS last vids, i have to say: stop it already and believe your eyes! Fatal Inertia has also gone through a miraculous transformation. What makes me excited is that these are 1st gen! So have they equaled there CG counterparts? IMO, the answer is an undeniable YES!

[woundingchaney]

better wait for gameplay cliff (TGS)

But I agree that for the most parts the games are improving well, have they reached the "targets" no they have not.

We can pick out bits and pieces of target/cgi footage and say that the game looks better in this way or that but so far the "target" footage is considerably better than the game footage overall.


IMO

[cliffbo]

better wait for gameplay cliff (TGS)

But I agree that for the most parts the games are improving well, have they reached the "targets" no they have not.

Have you seen the latest Resistance vids?! come on Wounding, they are actually better than the original CG!

[woundingchaney]

Have you seen the latest Resistance vids?! come on Wounding, they are actually better than the original CG!
Res. has def. improved but overall I disagree.

Also edited above post.

[VG Aficionado]

Resistance's E3 2005 trailer was not CGI at all, so what the hell are you talking about? It looks way better now.

[cliffbo]

Resistance's E3 2005 trailer was not CG at all, so what the hell are you talking about? It looks way better now.

yes actually your right come to think of it. but other games, such as Fatal, Heavenly and RR look set to easily equal anything we have seen. in my opinion Resistance proves once and for all that KZ will be awesome.

[Voidler]

No, not the Killzone CGI or the Motorstorm. Interestingly, everyone thought Heavenly Sword was CGI, but everytihng at E3 2005 was real. I had it pegged up with KZ and Motorstorm back then. While it's not there, it is quite close to those CGI benchmarks. Games like Naughty Dogs, LA Noire may surpass when we've seen more.

[cliffbo]

No, not the Killzone CGI or the Motorstorm. Interestingly, everyone thought Heavenly Sword was CGI, but everytihng at E3 2005 was real. I had it pegged up with KZ and Motorstorm back then. While it's not there, it is quite close to those CGI benchmarks. Games like Naughty Dogs, LA Noire may surpass when we've seen more.

exactly, i think that the naysayers are going to be on permanent mute come TGS...

[VG Aficionado]

exactly, i think that the naysayers are going to be on permanent mute come TGS...LOL, if only...

*Killzone PS3 appears, looks 10 times better than the pre-rendered teaser*

Fanboys: OMG! PS2 grafix!!!11

[cliffbo]

LOL, if only...


*Killzone PS3 appears, looks 10 times better than the pre-rendered teaser*

Fanboys: OMG! PS2 grafix l00k bett3r!

they will change tactics and move on to framerates. :)

[woundingchaney]

LOL, if only...

*Killzone PS3 appears, looks 10 times better than the pre-rendered teaser*

Fanboys: OMG! PS2 grafix!!!
QFT

[cliffbo]

LOL, if only...

*Killzone PS3 appears, looks 10 times better than the pre-rendered teaser*

Fanboys: OMG! PS2 grafix!!!11

show them this:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/732/732775/resistance-fall-of-man-20060914004752394.jpg

[Pumpkin Head]

Yes ps3 has equalled CG,that's really a good thing..To think other wise,you might have to get your eyes checked..lol

[cliffbo]

LOL, if only...

*Killzone PS3 appears, looks 10 times better than the pre-rendered teaser*

Fanboys: OMG! PS2 grafix!!!11

or show them these:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/732/732775/resistance-fall-of-man-20060914004753691.jpg
http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2006/257/930023_20060915_screen002.jpg

[Voidler]

show them this:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/732/732775/resistance-fall-of-man-20060914004752394.jpgThat's not as great example, the model is pretty awful

[masteratt]

I am absolutely amazed how fast the games (Motorstorm, Fatal Intertia, Resistance etc) improved both graphically and frame-rate wise (MGS4 Leipzig trailer had a noticable improvement in the fram-rate).

As I said Sony better than everyone knows what their console is capable of and I in no way doubt PS3, after 5-6 months (i used to think a year and a bit but they are progressing very fastly) after release will make these CG targets look like PS2.5.;)

[jako]

When putting on my PC I just wanted to open such a thread... You beat me to this Cliffbo. (+rep)
You wrote what exactly I was thinking. At E3 2K5 everything was CG (despite what you are saying), and Sony was denounced as a liar.
Then we started to see some realtime footage wich were obviusly really below (my) expectations.
Then since a few month we are viewing photos or gameplay footage that is exactly on par with the CG of E3 2K5 (Fight night is the perfect exemple).

All this make me think that Sony wasn't liyng at E3 2K5 for the quality of their games, and that the famous expression XBOX1.5 (for XBOX360) was right.

[Nameless]

Perhaps I'm having deja vu, because I keep seeing these types of threads...
It' s very subjective, some games have come close and some instance exceeded, but many games have fell short or just simply took a different artistic direction.

Perhaps this type of thread can wait until TGS or the PS3 launch.

[OmniCloud]

For the Original post-I have to say NO...Yes Resistance looks better-but they never had any CG to begin with. I think Heavenly Sword was real-time too, but It was mistaken for CG and now the game looks even better! But Overall-which means Killzone and Motorstorm-they' haven't been surpassed. Seriously some of us need to visit a couple gamesites and look at Killzone's E3 trailer. Resistance is not touching that CG in the graphics department. The Explosions, the Flamethrower, and the amount of chaos going on on the screen was crazy!! And while MotorStorm looks better every month-it's still not as good as E3. So basically-not yet cliffbo, but with the progress the devs are making specifically with launch titles-u can't help but wonder how soon....

Yes I also agree w/Nameless...Some have, others haven't. I just think Killzone was too ambitious with that CG and so was MotorStorm-both of those games looked MILES ahead of anything at the show-including MGS4 IMO...It just wouldn't be sensible if PS3 produced those kind of graphics this early in it's life. How close they've come is already impressive enough

[cliffbo]

For the Original post-I have to say NO...Yes Resistance looks better-but they never had any CG to begin with. I think Heavenly Sword was real-time too, but It was mistaken for CG and now the game looks even better! But Overall-which means Killzone and Motorstorm-they' haven't been surpassed. Seriously some of us need to visit a couple gamesites and look at Killzone's E3 trailer. Resistance is not touching that CG in the graphics department. The Explosions, the Flamethrower, and the amount of chaos going on on the screen was crazy!! And while MotorStorm looks better every month-it's still not as good as E3. So basically-not yet cliffbo, but with the progress the devs are making specifically with launch titles-u can't help but wonder how soon....

i suppose what i was trying to address here is the fact that there was so many naysayers claiming that it was CG when in actual fact it WAS gameplay

[OmniCloud]

Oh of course Cliffbo!! Agreed-I think most of know that PS3 is going to be the most powerful console on the market. If u still don't belive that-then ur just being naive...Heavenly Sword has some of the best graphics I've ever seen in an action game-and it's coming out the beginning of next year so it'll look even better!

BTW-+rep nice thread...

[Nameless]

For the Original post-I have to say NO...Yes Resistance looks better-but they never had any CG to begin with. I think Heavenly Sword was real-time too, but It was mistaken for CG and now the game looks even better! But Overall-which means Killzone and Motorstorm-they' haven't been surpassed. Seriously some of us need to visit a couple gamesites and look at Killzone's E3 trailer. Resistance is not touching that CG in the graphics department. The Explosions, the Flamethrower, and the amount of chaos going on on the screen was crazy!! And while MotorStorm looks better every month-it's still not as good as E3. So basically-not yet cliffbo, but with the progress the devs are making specifically with launch titles-u can't help but wonder how soon....

Yes I also agree w/Nameless...Some have, others haven't. I just think Killzone was too ambitious with that CG and so was MotorStorm-both of those games looked MILES ahead of anything at the show-including MGS4 IMO...It just wouldn't be sensible if PS3 produced those kind of graphics this early in it's life. How close they've come is already impressive enough
^^^ What he said... :smoke:

[Z]

the Sony pure CG videos are the reason for all the backlash. others were honest and direct with their announcements. one of the beauties of such honesty is that gamers see the gradual progression of your titles till they launch. Fatal Inertia, Resistance and others are developing nicely.

but what is strange is that some still think some games are pure CG when their devs never once shown any CG at all. I am specifically talking about Lair. did anyone come by anything shown about the game that wasn't specifically said it was 'real-time' and 'using in-game graphics'?


on another note;

howdey ;)

[Nameless]

Z, Have not seen you around man...
Welcome back I hope all is well. Peace

[cliffbo]

in the face of the pictures above how can this still be an issue:

Very nice scans!

I can't discern whether or not that's realtime or pre-rendered.

about stuntman 2 scans.

[Pluto]

I'm not that keen on Playstation 3 games.

So, forgive me if I've damaged the integrity of your thread. SERIOUSLY.. >_>

[VG Aficionado]

Welcome back Z! :hugegrin:

[cliffbo]

I'm not that keen on Playstation 3 games.

So, forgive me if I've damaged the integrity of your thread. SERIOUSLY.. >_>

why do you think i think you've damaged the integrity of my thread? come on fella chill a bit i'm not having a go at you personally, i'm simply using it as an example of how posters automatically ask that question

[Pluto]

Uh. Sarcasm?

And apparently, the original poster edited his post to mention that the screens were from the Xbox 360 version. Talk about irony! Ahahaha.

[cliffbo]

Uh. Sarcasm?

And apparently, the original poster edited his post to mention that the screens were from the Xbox 360 version. Talk about irony! Ahahaha.

i think your missing my point here Nova :) it still stands as an example. i've said the same thing myself about a game... okay...

[Pluto]

I think I do.

You're trying to say that in-game is looking more like the CG, by using me as an example because I couldn't tell whether or not an image from a magazine scan was in game or not.

Was that it?

[cliffbo]

I think I do.

You're trying to say that in-game is looking more like the CG, by using me as an example because I couldn't tell whether or not an image from a magazine scan was in game or not.

Was that it?

just the automatic way in which we have all been brainwashed by the media into doubting the grunt of the PS3. i apologise if i upset you Nova, i had no intention to :) friends?

[Pluto]

Naah. I'm not angry.

And sure. Friends. :salute:

[Z]

VG
Welcome back Z!
Nameless
Z, Have not seen you around man...
Welcome back I hope all is well. Peace
thanks guys. I swallowed many a sleeping pill. nothing cuts time faster.
now, quick, shower me with 'welcome back' presents and stuff!
....before I doze back off again.

[yoshaw]

:thumbl: Welcome back Z. Don't you dare step into that cryogenic chamber again. lol

[Infernal]

Well every game that was actually CG originally has not reached its render. The only ones these really were are Motorstorm and Killzone. Games like Resistance, Warhawk, LAIR, Fatal Inertia, MGS, and Heavenly Sword all look far better than they did originally, however none of these were ever CG to begin with.
So have the games matched the CG? Nope.
Have the games improved from what they originally looked like? Yep.

[venomv]

I pretty sure the first Fatal Inertia trailer wasn't real time, remember how bad it looked a few months after E305?

[MaceSin]

Umm, nope.

[Domination]

as each day passes and new pics and movies are released, the games are improving by leaps and bounds. there was talk, for instance that the latest pictures of Resistance had been touched up, but having seen those GLORIOUS last vids, i have to say: stop it already and believe your eyes! Fatal Inertia has also gone through a miraculous transformation. What makes me excited is that these are 1st gen! So have they equaled there CG counterparts? IMO, the answer is an undeniable YES!

I don't know about the CGI stuff. But as far as the footage running on early hardware as targets and such, I would have to say that a lot of it was either met and even surpassed with the close to final versions.

[cliffbo]

I don't know about the CGI stuff. But as far as the footage running on early hardware as targets and such, I would have to say that a lot of it was either met and even surpassed with the close to final versions.

i completely agree... and the devs have still got plenty of polishing time left. i hope us Brits get some extra content with the games, baring in mind the wait :(

[venomv]

Look at the TGS 05 Fatal Inertia video (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/fatalinertia/media.html), if you guys remember after that the game looked nothing like it, even though it is practically identical now. I'm pretty sure it wasn't real time then....

[jaxmkii]

most of the games are getting close... real close.

[cliffbo]

you guys do realise that it was MILR that made us demand higher graphical standards with his make it look real campaign (that was the one before his RSX campaign lol) so if devs do indeed look at forums for feed back (which we now know is true) perhaps he's responsible for the sudden leap in quality... just a thought ;)

[Nameless]

^ MILR for president! :crazy2:
Honestly, titles don't usually receive their visual facelift until close to final build. Typically developers don't concentrate on the fine details until they completely hash out the scope and gameplay elements. The final visuals are addressed on the home stretch that's why all the titles will look significantly better closer to the final build... The developers understand expectations for the PS3 are high regardless of any forum poster's request. Peace

[yoshaw]

MILR was acting childish to expect games looking good while months ahead of their launch. If anyone who deserves props at this point, its the guys like VG, Omni, Lalilo(and others) who tried to set him straight to wait close to launch to see whats real. And he's fine with most games now.

Just pointing out the credit where its due! :shrug:

lol

[makeitlookreal]

The truth is that consumers need to demand the most for their dollar from producers. If that does not happen and the consumers become less than critical the producers will slack off because they can make the same profit with a lesser quality product.

Now, I want to say something about the whole CG issue because it's darn confusing and I think this needs to be said.

There are various types of CG and various qualities of CG. There is not just one type of "CG" that's absolutely technically perfect that requires each frame to sit in a render farm for hours. Yes, that kind of CG does exist, but there are many other varieties of "computer graphics" as well. For example, "CG" or "computer graphics" could include everything from real-time game play, to a demo produced on souped up hardware in real-time, to a pre-rendered demo produced with some sort of graphical target or range in mind, or a movie or clip that could never be matched "technically" in real-time (right now) because an entire render farm as used. CG can mean several things, but right now when it comes to our purposes I think we are addressing the demos we have seen for games before we get to look at real-time footage.

Now, we all know that there were a lot of other than real-time demos floating around the last few years. But the blanket term CG does not accurately describe them. To say that a game has matched "CG" graphics is not precise at all. Because it's going to be very difficult for a game to match true "CG" movie theather pre-rendered graphics. However, it could be more than possible for a final version of a game to match a souped up real-time demo made on better than spec hardware, a real-time demo but with it's FPS sped up artificially, or a pre-render with some kind of target in mind. These are indeed possible. Matching a render farm however is most certainly NOT possible at least not "technically" or fully.

Bascially, I believe that several games have matched and exceeded their demos regardless of how those were produced. It also looks like other games such as Devil May Cry 4 are getting pretty close to matching the quality (even if style changes occur) of it's "CG" demo. Also, there are games like MGS4 which have produced visuals that certainly look great and call be called "CG" but we know they are running real-time already.

Anyway, to make this long post end at some point I want to say that it's obvious that PS3 games have the ability to out perform *some* CG graphics. However, we need to be careful about how we speak about these issues. Because "CG" is a very non-descriptive and non-precise word. If you consider pre-rendered top quality render-farmed graphics then I would say the PS3 cannot at all match their technical quality.

Now, in response to this thread I will say that I believe the PS3 has matched or exceeded the targets of a lot of games and will beat out *certain* types of "CG" graphics used in demos.

[VG Aficionado]

if devs do indeed look at forums for feed back (which we now know is true) perhaps he's responsible for the sudden leap in quality... just a thought ;)Absolutely. Developers would never think of trying to improve the graphics of their games on their own! :tardbang:

[cliffbo]

everyones soooooooo serious today LOL :)

[makeitlookreal]

The big test in my opinion is going to be Killzone. If it can reach it's target (which is getting more likely in my opinion with all these great looking games) then I think the PS3's power is going to be proven to many, many people.

[cliffbo]

The big test in my opinion is going to be Killzone. If it can reach it's target (which is getting more likely in my opinion with all these great looking games) then I think the PS3's power is going to be proven to many, many people.

agreed fella :)

[curryking1]

I bet when we see the next gen Getaway in action it will look very impressive. It will really show the PS3's muscles.

[Nameless]

Absolutely. Developers would never think of trying to improve the graphics of their games on their own! :tardbang:
QFT... LOL

[makeitlookreal]

But if consumers kick up a fuss about the graphics and demand the best from them it's more than likely that they will work even harder. They don't have to do anything at all, but to keep the dollars flowing they will do what it takes.

[Undercover Cop]

Have you seen the latest Resistance vids?! come on Wounding, they are actually better than the original CG!
To be fair, that Resistance piv from 05 was never really that impressive in the first place. I own the E3 video with that conference, and it's the least impressive there by far.

So yeah it's damn good that they are aiming way past that junk.

[chrismt]

OMG! PS2 grafix!!!11

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/732/732786/resistance-fall-of-man-20060914005224734.jpg

[woundingchaney]

Absolutely. Developers would never think of trying to improve the graphics of their games on their own! :tardbang:
Honestly I feel comfortable saying that MILR has made an impact somewhere.:clap:

[Nameless]

Honestly I feel comfortable saying that MILR has made an impact somewhere.:clap::piss: Ok...
I kid... I kid...

Seriously, I think MILR is a great member of the forums, but it's either incredibly naive or just batshit crazy to say MILR has made an impact on the quality of PS3 launch titles... Peace

[makeitlookreal]

I'm not the only one in the world that is critical about graphics and demand the best. There are many others like me. Now, I am just one of certainly thousands upon thousands. Obviously, to some extent developers want to make great looking graphics. But I believe *all* of us demanding better this and better that has indeed helped give them an extra little push.

Basically, I believe many of us here on this forum (not just myself) are responsible for probably 1/10,000th or .0001% of the graphical improvement we are seeing!

We have all done our little part to polite and peacefully demand the best graphics possible. Because of that, combined together, *some* of the graphical improvement is do to ALL OF US.

[woundingchaney]

MILR it was kind of a joke, I seriously doubt that a dev. comes to this forum and says to himself,

"This damn Woundingchaney character wants motion blur and AA. Call the publishers because we are going to give this asshole what he wants!!!"


If anything I hope one of them puts buttwoofer support in the next FPS.

[makeitlookreal]

No, it's not do to anyone person. It's the general mood of the consumers of the market. If in general they are are demanding the best looking games possible then the producers will respond to try and satisfy their consumers so they can sell more games and make more money. The good thing is that demanding the best makes the various developers compete among each other even more.

It's the general sum of all the demands and critical nature of the gaming community. Together we are making an environment where we have very high standards. If that was not the case then developers would lower their standards slightly because they could make a lower quality game but still get the same sales.

[Nameless]

^ MILR we are in agreement and this supports my previous comment:

The developers understand expectations for the PS3 are high regardless of any forum poster's request.

Let's get things back on topic guys...

[frosty]

If anything I hope one of them puts buttwoofer support in the next FPS.

LOL, reminds me of an old photoshop I made on these forums a while back.

Edit: NVM, it got corrupted somehow.

[jaxmkii]

HEY PLOYPHONEY!!!!

i want dynamic day/night change and weather in GT5!!!

[makeitlookreal]

Well, to get back on topic I will say that I think the PS3 has equaled most of it's "CG" targets. If Killzone and a few others are matched I think the case will be made that Sony really did live up to it's promises when it comes to the quality of it's games.

[Pluto]

Time wise, how long does everyone expect the next-generation Killzone to surface?

Two years is more than enough time to get their practice in on the Playstation 3. And we'll probably end up seeing even further graphical improvement.

[makeitlookreal]

I just hope we see something from Killzone at TGS. Just imagine if Killzone reaches it's target. It would stun the entire gaming world and especially those who said that such a game was not possible with the PS3's hardware!

[VG Aficionado]

Time wise, how long does everyone expect the next-generation Killzone to surface?Optimistically, I'd say we'll see something this fall. Realistically, I don't expect to see anything till next year.

[cliffbo]

i would think the fact that ted price of insomniacs response to the forums around the nets questions about whether they use bd fully or texture compression would give a clue to the fact that they do listen to at least some things people say about their products but that`s just my opinion.

also i don`t think it would matter if KZ meets it`s target renders at tgs as the naysayers would still find fault with it and proclaim it as cg again unless it was actually played live.

:)

[EvilTaru]

HEY PLOYPHONEY!!!!

i want dynamic day/night change and weather in GT5!!!

LOL I see what you did there. ¬_¬

[EvilTaru]

Optimistically, I'd say we'll see something this fall. Realistically, I don't expect to see anything till next year.

Given the flak SCEE has gotten, they will show it only when it's ready to be shown. :P

[yoshaw]

You guys are forgetting the Gameinformer interview I posted. One of the Killzone PS3 developers mentioned that the details for the PS3 killzone might be appearing after Halloween. That's November fellas :) Maybe they'll be giving a demo disc with launch PS3 that has this footage or maybe a big event is lined up at Sony prior or next to launch. Who knows but all hints point to good news ;)

[VG Aficionado]

You guys are forgetting the Gameinformer interview I posted. One of the Killzone PS3 developers mentioned that the details for the PS3 killzone might be appearing after Halloween. That's November fellas :) Maybe they'll be giving a demo disc with launch PS3 that has this footage or maybe a big event is lined up at Sony prior or next to launch. Who knows but all hints point to good news ;)"Details" doesn't necessarily mean screenshots or videos ;) Besides, I remember some Guerrilla staff guy posting a reply in the official PS forums hinting that it was "not long now" until we saw KZ PS3, and he said that in February...

[Nameless]

I could see a trailer being available on the PS3, but I doubt anything more than that.

[yoshaw]

"Details" doesn't necessarily mean screenshots or videos ;) Besides, I remember some Guerrilla staff guy posting a reply in the official PS forums hinting that it was "not long now" until we saw KZ PS3, and he said that in February...

Actually wasn't that incident involving the KZ:Liberation unveiling? I mean I do recall a guerilla dev getting headlines in forums for saying "Not long now" But immedietly afterwards the info came out and the backlash. He claimed to never have promised the PS3 version and he was right. Smart ass no doubt ;)

But this time, there is the definite PS3 version after the October release of the PSP killzone. So whatever information is revealed, whether story details, video or images is a welcome IMO. I think fans would take anything Killzone related even if it is just a press release citing how many devs have been added to Guerrilla games studios. With so much negativity surrouding the Sony brand, I think the story details or gameplay details of Killzone would be a huge plus to the recent awful atmosphere around Sony, No? :)

[Domination]

To be fair, that Resistance piv from 05 was never really that impressive in the first place. I own the E3 video with that conference, and it's the least impressive there by far.

So yeah it's damn good that they are aiming way past that junk.

As bad as that may sound, I actually have to agree with you. To me, it resembled footage closely to a last-gen PC or maybe slightly better, jut to be fair about it.

Like your sig, BTW. Achilles/Brad Pitt is awesome. :)

[Red_Eyes]

So basically, this whole thread should be rename: Has Killzone reach it's CG target? Because all videos from E3 2005 were real-time except for Motorstorm and Killzone. And to answer the question: We have insufficient information.

[Nameless]

So basically, this whole thread should be rename: Has Killzone reach it's CG target? Because all videos from E3 2005 were real-time except for Motorstorm and Killzone. And to answer the question: We have insufficient information.
QFT :clap:

[Undercover Cop]

Like your sig, BTW. Achilles/Brad Pitt is awesome. :)One of the greatest fight scenes in modern cinema history. :)

[Smokey]

One of the greatest fight scenes in modern cinema history. :)
dont you think brad pitt was a bit girly for Achilles? imo he really didnt suit the part. actually it killed the whole movie for me

[cliffbo]

dont you think brad pitt was a bit girly for Achilles? imo he really didnt suit the part. actually it killed the whole movie for me

agreed. Brad Pit was absolutely the wrong choice for the part.

[overclocked]

Hector was a god choise with Eric Bana. Pitt should been traded out for Colin Farell ;)

[msantti]

No, not for the most part.

But, many of the titles are showing great improvement.

I think quality of the launch and launch window titles will be pretty strong.

Certainly better than the 360 and I got one of those at launch.

[bigwig]

no its not, but then no system, even the pc, is... many of the games are looking great to me though...Ive already forgotten most of the cg to be honest....all the games that were shown as cg I was scepticle of in the first place, thus unsuprised.....


Two biggest graphical enigmas for me are lair and killzone...even Ill admit the cg trailer looked amazing and would have made the coolest fps ever from the intensity, good trailer anyway

peace

[venomv]

even Ill admit the cg trailer looked amazing and would have made the coolest fps ever from the intensity, good trailer anyway


Yeah, if nothing else those guys can make an awesome cut-scene......

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I'm tired of people calling the cg material 'targets'. There are a handful of cases where the developers actually said the promotional material is a 'target'. So many other cases were just the gaming community hyping it that way and calling it a target.

[Z]

of course. some seem to confuse the little mislead announcements (what, two or three?) and base that notion on every single CG ever presented.

some use both in-game and CG as a for of 'trailer' to show off that the game has CG cinamatics, story, etc.
Two biggest graphical enigmas for me are lair and killzone
with Killzone, join the party. with Lair, I don't believe anything was shown that wasn't in-game. I agree that we might not know how exactly the camera and gameplay turn out to be, but the graphics are the same. if you have been following this one, you'll notice that they graphics keep getting better with every new showing.

[makeitlookreal]

They are targets. They might not have been called specifically by that name, but they were indeed targets.

For example, MGS4, Devil May Cry, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, and the folks at Killzone (among others) ALL SAID that their final game would match or exceed what we saw at E3 of 2006! They did not use the exact word "render target" but if they are saying the trailers were what they were striving to produce then basically they are indeed "render targets" by definition.

The simple truth is that more and more of these games are reaching or exceeding their targets (even if there have been stylized changes) and a lot of people didn't think it would happen.

They were render targets and one by one they are being matched or exceeded by the PS3 in real-time. Maybe not every single technical aspect of the trailers, but what counts to the HUMAN EYE.