Unofficially RSX = G80

[Nerve-Damage]

I can unofficially confirm that the RSX will be based off NVIDIA’s upcoming G80 technology. The latest IP has been done for quite sometime (actually 3 months); NVIDIA will be announcing details soon. Anyhow, my source is very legit…works for NVIDIA!! You don’t have to believe me…but my source is a very honorable person. Maybe not to NDA agreements...

I’m so positive about this, I posted it at B3D :Carrot:

[Nameless]

^ Great news man and I believe it's possible...
Considering the significant visual quality increase in PS3 games, the titles support your insider information. I guess we will all know in a few weeks and I'm curious to hear Microsoft/ATI's response. Peace

[DC_613]

If its true than good.......... if its not then........... PS3 games still look amazing.......... WIN WIN.

[PUNK em 733]

HOLY SHIT...HOLY SHIT...you've just killed MILR with joy.

[VG Aficionado]

I don't believe it, but I hope to be very wrong :)

[Insane Metal]

I don't believe it, but I hope to be very wrong :)

[Nerve-Damage]

He has no reason to lie to me, hopefully will know within a week’s time.

[masteratt]

I am not a tech guy but I take this as great news? :p

[RavenFox]

Damn Nerve Damage your causing my heart to up its beats man. I await the news my friend.

[Nerve-Damage]

Damn Nerve Damage your causing my heart to up its beats man. I await the news my friend.

Regardless of the outcome…

I will not shy away from posting to this site, even if I was made to look like an ass.

[RavenFox]

Hey man they are tearing you up on B3D. I expected that so I offered some support man.

[Nerve-Damage]

Hey man they are tearing you up on B3D. I expected that so I offered some support man.

Thanks bud :thumpsup:

But I expected that and don't mind either.

[version]

N-D you are the KING :)
i hope again...

[cornholio12]

i hate to be the party pooper but isn't rsx based on nv47 which is g7x

MILR hasn't posted yet im guessing after he read the OP he had an orgasm which resulted into an out of body experience and still hasn't come back lol

[Smurf]

I don't believe it, but I hope to be very wrong :)

[SevenDesigns]

This would explain a lot. Even if not 100% true, it's not simply a 7800gt or whatever some sites have been claiming.

[Smurf]

Well since the Sony is already releasing final PS3 units, lets ask PSM to disect their PS3 and see whats in that bad mamma jamma.

[cornholio12]

to nerve damage,

what are the credentials of your friend. does he work on the technology, PR guy or the 67 year old late night janitor?

[Sephiroth_VII]

Smurf: I'm afraid that they're under NDA's, buddy...

[Smurf]

Smurf: I'm afraid that they're under NDA's, buddy...

I know, but its worth trying :-)

[Nameless]

to nerve damage,

what are the credentials of your friend. does he work on the technology, PR guy or the 67 year old late night janitor?
Quote of the day! LMAO!!!
Great question man... :clap:

[Sephiroth_VII]

Well, I trust you Nerve. But if this turns out to be a lie...
"Sharpens his katana"

[makeitlookreal]

Let me say something.

I know for a fact from my latest sources that the RSX has been nothing more than a modified 7800GTX for a while now. I have talked to a developer who told me as much.

However, if the final dev-kit has not been released I don't think it's impossible that Sony could realize the following:

One, that the same time the PS3 comes out the full G80 PC part will be released putting the original RSX to shame.

Two, that their delay means that they are using a GPU from 2005 in basically a product that won't be released in most of the world until 2007.

Three, that if they want to remain competitive for a longer period of time they need a strong GPU.

---

Basically, I don't know what to think. But I will say it's certainly possible Sony could change the GPU of the PS3.

Also, here is another idea.

Could it be that part of this final delay is NOT (repeat NOT) just about Blu-ray diodes but that they needed time for NVIDIA to finalize a NEWER GPU?

Once again, I think this is possible but only time will tell. It would also explain why Sony has not officially posted the specs of the RSX.

[Nerve-Damage]

to nerve damage,

what are the credentials of your friend. does he work on the technology, PR guy or the 67 year old late night janitor?

He’s been promoted recently…however he was in working in software service support.

[OmniCloud]

The games are already up and running and looking great not even tapping into the potential of the console. I hope ur satisfied MILR with the final specs-but does it really matter anymore:huh:

[nwo504]

how can it be based off g80 when it dosent have unified shaders?

[makeitlookreal]

A G80ish upgrade to the RSX at the last minute would NOT help launch games very much at all except for perhaps frame-rate issues. But for the second round of games a G80ish GPU could be a tremendous benefit.

The difference in game quality with a G80 based GPU would simply be tremendous.

Once again, perhaps all these delays are NOT just about a shortage of Blu-ray diodes, but that Sony needs time to get enough of these final RSX units. It could also explain the horribly low launch numbers they have been giving out. If the production of G80 RSX chips is a recent thing they might not have that many until production really ramps up. It could explain why they said the Blu-ray diode is just *ONE* component that is the cause of the delay and low number of launch units.

[Sephiroth_VII]

how can it be based off g80 when it dosent have unified shaders?
"Based off" doesn't mean that it's a carbon copy. There's a lot more to the G80 than just unified shaders

[Zer0-Sum]

I have the BFG OC NVidia 7900 Ultra. This card kicks major ass. If it is better than the card I have I will be over joyed. Lets all hope it is rue.....

[makeitlookreal]

+REP to Nerve Damage for sharing this information with us. He didn't have to say anything at all, but he did and that is commendable.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Deadboyz: Remember that your PC won't be using the full speed of your GPU, since the software isn't programmed specifically for it. With a closed system like PS3, games released late in the PS3's lifetime has a chance of reaching G80 level(theoretically).

[Nameless]

^^ Agreed...

[Sephiroth_VII]

Just look at PS2. The EE has equivalent power to a G40 or something, but FF XII, MGS3 & Okami look at least G60 level to me.

[frosty]

*waits for XBD or the ultimate wet blanket to make contrary statement*

[Sephiroth_VII]

Well, cpi wouldn't know. His company shouldn't have the final devkits yet, unless they're extremely lucky.

[makeitlookreal]

That's true Sephiroth. This is apparently something Sony has been working with NVIDIA very closely and quietly. I doubt they have told any of their developers. Probably, the developers won't know until an announcment is made or they get the absolute *final* devkit with this new model of the RSX I am calling....

RSX Ver. 2.0!

[saxdawg00]

RSX Ver. 2!

Electric Boogaloo!!!

[Hrama]

Heh, the electric boogaloos... Mebbe Poppin Pete. Anyway, this sure sounds pretty interesting Nerve Damage, though I am not sure how much faith to put into it as there have been some pretty contradictory statements from devs lately...

[Smurf]

Could they produce 500,000 G80s in time for launch, plus the 10,000 G80s they need to deliver to developers for their dev kits ? They need to develop 510,000 G80s in time between now and November. If i may recall, 360 developers didnt get 100% final hardware until a month before launch..like they didnt get the actual Xenos until a month before. My memory could be playing games with me, but i do remember something about the final kits being very late. So i say its still possible for Sony to do anything as long as the kits are v0.93. Once they are v1.00, theres no turning back.

[iceman2654]

Great find Nerve! Thank you for sharing that.

My Random Speculation: Perhaps the G80 is based on RSX?

[makeitlookreal]

Iceman, that does not make sense.

The original RSX Ver. 1.0 was nothing more than a modified and optimized G70. The G80 is leaps and bounds above the RSX. There is no way the G80 could be based on the RSX.

Now, to get back to the subject.

I think this is very possible and would explain why Sony has been so quiet about the RSX, why NVIDIA has been so quiet about the RSX, why Sony deleted so many specs from their webpages when it comes to the RSX, and it fits in with the delay of the PS3.

[Sephiroth_VII]

^^Lol! No way!! It's the other way around, that's 100% sure!

[frosty]

*This just in! PS3 to use Voodoo 2 graphics processor!* j/k.

[Smurf]

*This just in! PS3 to use Voodoo 2 graphics processor!* j/k.

^ lmao

[iceman2654]

LOL frosty.

MILR. Was that confirmed by one of your sources? I think I missed that thread. My original thinking was that a team from Nvidia and Sony worked together to design the RSX. Then Nvidia realized how great the RSX was and incorporated some stuff into the G80?

Or I could be totally off.

Yeah so anyways...

[yoshaw]

*waits for XBD or the ultimate wet blanket to make contrary statement*

Yea, I'd like their input on this as well. I'm surprised to know this has come out so late when not long ago Xb and cpi were commenting otherwise. Well, either way it turns out would be fine by me as the games already look more than the competition to me.

[OmniCloud]

The guy from Factore 5 stated in an interview the RSX is MORE than capable of handling PS3 games in 1080P!!! Not to mention how much of the load Cell can carry. I just don't understand the logic to this thread besides waiting for confirmation that Nerve damage inside source was right...

[makeitlookreal]

The purpose of this thread should be to try and find confimation of Nerve Damage's inside source. There are tons of people reading this thread both those that post and those that don't post. Someone could provide confirmation at anytime or it might not happen at all. But it's going to be interesting to find out.

In the past I had a few difference sources which turned out to be at least somewhat incorrect. However, my latest source confirmed the information Barbarian released on Beyond 3D was indeed correct (at least he did not refute it). That means that at least the old RSX (Ver. 1.0) is indeed N47 based but tweaked with several optimizations such as larger caches. I would guess that the larger cache sizes could indeed be representitive of the G80.

However, this information from Nerve Damage is something completely different. It is indicating that a *NEW* RSX has been developed which is a different GPU all together. I know absolutely nothing about this new GPU that Nerve Damage's source has told him about. However, it is something I really hope happens.

[jaxmkii]

we may never know

[makeitlookreal]

By the way, it's my Birthday in 12 minutes! What a nice Birthday present Nerve Damage!!!!!

[Nameless]

Well Nao stated on Beyond 3D that the current RSX specs floating around the internet were incorrect... Also, you have to consider that any PS3 title currently in development are being developed for N47, because that's the safest approach. I have to agree with Nerve that we will find out in the coming weeks no need to spend a lot of time on speculation. Peace

PS: Happy B-day MILR, God bless.

[jrum]

I think sony knew all along they would not be launching the system in the sping of 06. I don't know much about this kind of thing, but did they ever announce that the RSX was finalized? If not then would it not be likely that the project was an ongoing one. If this is the case then it is possible that the G80 architecture was implemented to some dergee with that of the RSX. That would make the ps3 a man amoung boys and babies in the case of the wii.
I'm, however looking at this as a too good to be true scenario. I'll keep my expectations low, the higher your hopes the greater the fall.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MILR!!!!! make it real.

[Raijin]

I bet your source Nerve-Damage has all wrong. I'm not taking a lot of risks in affirming this though... :p

[iceman2654]

Happy Birthday MILR

[makeitlookreal]

Thanks JRUM and Nameless.

I too find it interesting that Barbarian gave us some specs and then nAo downplayed them. At first I thought it was because nAo was trying to put the specs back in the box so to speak. Now, I believe it could be because the RSX is getting an entire re-design.

[jaxmkii]

^^^ Oh God The Beast Is Out Of His Cage!!!

[Garfunkel]

happy birthday MILR:angelgrin :rave: :birthday:

if you don't know what G80 is there is a thread in tech control with the rumored (and pretty much confirmed) specs and pics.

BTW Nerve, i believe you man, you have been great to PSINEXT and even if you/your source is wrong i trust you

[makeitlookreal]

Thank the rest of you who have wished me a Happy Birthday... by the way... It's now my Birthday!!!!!!!

Also, I just want to say that Nerve Damage has done a lot of work trying to dig up information about the RSX and we should thank him for it.

[PUNK em 733]

Happy Bday, you looney bat!

[Garfunkel]

i will +rep you if you are correct, ah what the hell...

[jrum]

I say let that beast be free. A caged animal is no fun, I like it better when they tear shit to pieces. go ahead milr, release the wargs.

[makeitlookreal]

I'm dancing around the house like this right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbCmnRztK1Y&mode=related&search=

[Nameless]

^ Did you hurt your leg like Steve and almost have a heart attack after all the jumping around? LMAO!

[jrum]

^^ that shit is too funny, but that monkey should stay caged forever.

[julps31]

Lol @ MILR...happy birthday man.

And i'll take this with a grain of salt...but if its true its incredible icing on the already amazing cake. And i would love for this too be true. I would be in PS3 heavan lol. But i wont look much into it until we get confirmation.

[makeitlookreal]

We don't know if this is going to turn out to be true or not. I'm already satisified with the PS3 games that have been produced so far. The vast majority of them look fantastic and are looking better all the time. However, with a new version of the RSX the second generation of games could be taken to a whole new level. A G80 is a pretty powerful piece of hardware and if the RSX is even anywhere close to it (doubt that we would get a full 700 million transistor RSX) we would have some amazing times ahead.

Edit: No, I did not fall down or trip, but my mom came out of her room and said she had gas and needed to use the restroom.

[jrum]

would the 256MB of vram be enough for that beast? do you not think that it would have to be increased to accommodate the new found power. I agree milr, the games look great. they will only get better with time aswell.
if this upgrade is true that's a major + if not I can live with it, I already got what I wanted. great looking games with tones of stuff going on.

[pari]

Its too good to be true, so dunno but if its so then its awesome news. All part of the radio silence of Sony before the blitz "calm before the storm"?

I would like add this info too, "a" version of 65nm CELL taped out about ~2yrs back.

[jrum]

I hate to say this now, but the ps4 is gonna be one hell of a machine if all these partnerships sony has built hold true till then.

[makeitlookreal]

There is really no way to know JRUM. It would be nice if we could get the new RSX and more RAM. But they could just take the current RSX, throw out the old N47 pipelines, put in the new ones, add a few bells and whisles, and boom we got a RSX 2.0 based on the G80 architecture.

[jrum]

^ you make it sound so simple, wouldn't it take allot time to test if the new pipes work well with the cell processor? again, I know very little about this kind of thing.

[Beenie Man]

Happy birthday MILR you graphics whore you.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Happy birthday to MILR. I'll give you some rep, but it can't top Nerve's gift.(Sorry for being late, but I wasn't at my PC)

[overclocked]

All has to do with the Blu-Ray diodes, you are simply not realistic.

Happy Birthday btw!

[makeitlookreal]

Hey, the REP on my birthday is also nice too. Also, Nerve's gift is nice but it won't be unwrapped until we get confirmation!

BTW, probably any GPU would work with the CELL processor, but some would probably work better than others. The *old* RSX Ver. 1.0 was optimized to work with the CELL processer in various ways, and I'm sure if NVIDIA is indeed producing an RSX Ver. 2.0 that they have incorporated the same optimizations to their new pipelines or even better ones.

EDIT: I'm 27 years old by the way.

[casualkiss]

Wasn't there something about Nvidia being paid a large sum in '05 and again in '06 by Sony for "future projects"? (note, not royalty payments but actual IP deliverables)

Perhaps this was for PSP2, or perhaps this was for upping the RSX to G80?

[makeitlookreal]

Exactly. I listend to and read the NVIDIA conference where it was stated that they were paid money to work on additional projects for Sony. I now believe this could have been RSX Ver. 2.0

[PhYmon]

*This just in! PS3 to use Voodoo 2 graphics processor!* j/k.
Dont make fun of 3DFX :susp: they were awesome 3D card back in the day.. but u are right the graphics are too good for been Nvidias chip hey wait a sec, 3DFX is part of NVIDIA so the graphics must be oustanding, I have been fallow the G80 seems the beginning of the rumors.. if u want to learn about it here is the LiNK (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=62443) Happy Birthday MILR I rep+ as a gift :cheers:
PS: Frosty I know u were joking :grouphug:

[makeitlookreal]

Thanks for the REP PhYmon!

Seriously, if anyone has some contacts of their own please go ahead and start asking questions about this. Maybe someone you know works for NVIDIA or Sony!

From Nerve Damage....

My friend is claiming there’s “press” kit documentation (info) being finalized for an upcoming NVIDIA press conference. He’s quite sure on what he saw..........

[Applefiend]

As always I'd like for Nerve Damage to be right. There's optimists and pessimists in the world, pessimists are more often right but optimists are more fun to hang out with. :)

[Voidler]

You guys are too gullible

[julps31]

You guys are too gullibleHow? Its not like he got the info from some random guy on the street lol. And most of us our being realistic that it might not happen.

[Voidler]

How? Its not like he got the info from some random guy on the street lol. And most of us our being realistic that it might not happen.Sorry, you don't just change the architecture of a GPU overnight. 0.001% chance of this being real

[makeitlookreal]

Exactly, Julps.

We are not saying it's absolutely going to happen. It might not happen at all. But apparently this guy is a trustworthy friend of Nerve Damage that actually works for NVIDIA. So this is indeed at least a possibility.

I would rather be optimisitc than pessimistic.

[Voidler]

Exactly, Julps.

We are not saying it's absolutely going to happen. It might not happen at all. But apparently this guy is a trustworthy friend of Nerve Damage that actually works for NVIDIA. So this is indeed at least a possibility.

I would rather be optimisitc than pessimistic.How about being realistic instead?

[xbdestroya]

You know what the most upsetting thing for me is when I read these threads? That people are always so willing to believe them.

Nerve-Damage has been wrong on *every* RSX theory he has ever posted - and they've all been from 'insiders' in the past.

I mean, how many of you are still onboard with this (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=61914) recent 'inside information' of his?

I'm sorry but, either Nerve Damage is extremely gullible and anonymous sources love to play him as a tool to their own rumor spreading devices... or it's just that some of 'us' are gullible here for buying into this stuff.

[makeitlookreal]

Actually, I think that this time might be one of the first where he had actual solid sources. I mean, this is specifically a friend of his that works for nVIDIA that he deems to be trustworthy. This is a lot more solid than just looking up patents, comparing notes, and then declaring the RSX must have such a feature or that feature.

He has an actual person who has given him information directly. I believe this theory more than any of his previous ones, although there is no way to know if this is valid or not. But it seems more believable than anything in the past.

[frosty]

He has an actual person who has given him information directly.

Well he did last time also. We all love ND, but you must learn to take info like that with a shaker full of salt.

[xbdestroya]

Just click on the link in my post - it leads right to the last *real* insider that gave up the goods...

[Nerve-Damage]

You know what the most upsetting thing for me is when I read these threads? That people are always so willing to believe them.

Nerve-Damage has been wrong on *every* RSX theory he has ever posted - and they've all been from 'insiders' in the past.

I mean, how many of you are still onboard with this (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=61914) recent 'inside information' of his?

I'm sorry but, either Nerve Damage is extremely gullible and anonymous sources love to play him as a tool to their own rumor spreading devices... or it's just that some of 'us' are gullible here for buying into this stuff.

I’m sorry you feel this way…but I didn’t post this just to start a rumor or win a popularity contest. I always thought boards were to share info, rumors, thoughts, ECT…even if they do or do not pan-out. Being used as a tool…maybe!? But I will never downgrade a person for sharing info….

Anyhow, I will keep you guys posted regardless of how I’m perceived or treated…that’s just me.

[makeitlookreal]

I for one want to say that I appreciate you sharing this information with us. And yes, this board is a place for every bit of information someone can find about the PS3 if it is confirmed or not.

[Smurf]

I doubt its the G80, but really the question on my mind is how did the devs get to do their games in 1080p and still make them look next-gen? Every tech person in every site basically said it would really kill the visuals, yet i see the visuals on par with the 360 visuals. What is in the RSX that allows developers to get these results months before launch day? Theres got to be something to the RSX that we dont know about, it might not be a G80 but there should be something unique about it that we dont know yet.

[frosty]

Assumptions that you know exactly what a Geforce 7800 is capable of when the game code is optimized to exploit it's every feature without having to consider any type of backward compatibility with other cards. Coupled with the lack of understanding of how a card that powerful would operate in a closed environment with a semi-state of the art processor memory and bus setup.

[Applefiend]

If you look at the RR7 pictures it's not that detailed, they look consistant with what you'd expect with what's known at RSX(doubled up 6800U on 128bit bus).

1080p is only 1920x1080, I get pretty good visuals out of my old crappy ATI card at 1920x1200. FEAR on my old PC at 1920x1200 looks way better than FEAR on 360. *whistle*

[Smokey]

I always thought boards were to share info, rumors, thoughts, ECT…even if they do or do not pan-out
Agreed, right or wrong its good reading :)

[makeitlookreal]

Here is a guess from someone on Beyod 3D about what it might all be about...

My guess is RSX utilizes one core from the G80, so RSX is roughly half the power on a clock for clock basis.

16 unified geometry/vertex shaders and 32 pixel shaders (340 million transistors)
128 bit Rambus XDR bus (1080p won't be a problem)

[xone_4]

Nerve-Damage IS RIGHT!!!! :-|

[CrumCon]

Nerve is nuts

[yoshaw]

Man, this thread is totally off the whack.

[smurfx]

this is absolutely not happening i hope some of you aren't entertaining the thought in you're heads.

[Jubal]

A+ thread, would read again.

[MarinBlue]

Hello everybody!
I'm new to this forum and a japanese and sorry for not well english writing.
I'm interested in this topic and want to write a speculation.
My theory are:
1) G80 may be a GPU with a traditional GPU core and SPU cores.
2) traditional GPU core may have own GDDR[3|4] memory with 256 bit bus.
3) traditional GPU core and SPU cores may communicate thru 128 bit FlexIO bus.
4) they may have another system memory (XDR DRAM) for textures or compiled shader codes.
5) NVIDIA may provide Gc compiler that can translate Gc code to SPU code part and GPU code part,
and may support shader code for PS3.

[woundingchaney]

Welcome MarineBlue


There is several rumors around the net of what the G80 will entale.


As far as the RSX, there is simply too mujch information available to suggest that it is G80 based, at least there is for me. But thats just opinion.

[Raijin]

IMO It's time to close this thread. Pointless speculation brings nothing on the table.

[Shodan]

I've heard that Samsung sent new type XDR shipments for SONY. July...

[Garfunkel]

Hello everybody!
I'm new to this forum and a japanese and sorry for not well english writing.
I'm interested in this topic and want to write a speculation.
My theory are:
1) G80 may be a GPU with a traditional GPU core and SPU cores.
2) traditional GPU core may have own GDDR[3|4] memory with 256 bit bus.
3) traditional GPU core and SPU cores may communicate thru 128 bit FlexIO bus.
4) they may have another system memory (XDR DRAM) for textures or compiled shader codes.
5) NVIDIA may provide Gc compiler that can translate Gc code to SPU code part and GPU code part,
and may support shader code for PS3.

Welcome! we could always do with more translators for Japanese game events and such.

[Shodan]

My Source( works for Samsung) said that SONY changed some RAM specs and required new type XDRs with previous type XDRs. Uncertainly it is for Ps3, but I think that new type XDRs mean some higher clock XDR or XDR2.

[lihard]

Yeah, close this thread already. It's not going to happen.

Just ask yourself why would Sony add more to the cost at this point???

[frosty]

This thread should remain open. After all, as someone mentioned before, these forums are for discussing all news and rumors, no matter how unlikley. If you don't like it, you aren't forced to click on it.

[archy121]

WOWWWww some rumour Nerve-Damage !

You are putting wood on fire that i ignited long while back..

...& I was laughed at by some. Although MILR came up with the 'RSX was something lot more than we expected' I speculated that RSX could be related to the G80 because of many reasons that i explained in the thread.

To anyone interested & has not see the thread..

RSX & The G80 Connection - its out THERE !
http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=59665

My last entry in that thread..

I would like to say I have not abandoned my speculations just because of recent rumors on RSX clock down grade. I responded in the related thread earlier.

Quote:
My PC is dead & so I have not been able to post for a while. I'm on a borrowed laptop right now. Anyhow i hold to my guns & continue to have faith in my original speculations. I still don't belive the final RSX to be what was on the original spec's. How much more or what exact GPU form it has taken, i will continue to speculate.

Quote:
It's more realistic to expect a G7x GPU with some G80 technologies or a G80 GPU customised & stripped down....
http://forums.e-mpire.com/showpost.p...&postcount=293

In case you think i'm crazy to still support the RSX theory, i would like to clarify my reasoning & refresh you on where I stand on the RSX speculation.

Judging by what little RSX specifications we know, it is possible the RSX will some what resemble the NVIDIA 7950GT & have customisations to suit the PS3 architecture. Also it should not be hard to accept the fact it will probably share some technologies associated with the G80 GPU as that was in development with NVIDIA before the RSX. After all the G80 is an advancement of G70's core (NV47) by adding extra technologies such as SmartShader 4. Its not a brand new radical architecture that doesn't even use unified architecture.

Quote:
Our next generation product is the combination of 3 years of heavy-duty work. We started architecting it about 4 years ago..
NVIDIA Corporation at Morgan Stanley Semiconductor & Systems Conference 03/07/06 at 8:45 a.m. PT

i.e. NVIDIA started work on G80 back in 2002 & Sony approached them 2004 earliest but possibly late as 2005 as that’s when NVDIA made official announcement they were working with Sony to create RSX.

From what we know, NVIDIA was already working on G80 before Sony approached them for RSX design. It would only makes sense for them to use the most current technologies at hand to make a NextGen console GPU. Logically reasoning, I would find it more surprising for NVIDIA not to use any G80 technology that they were currently working on & instead just use older G70 technology. Bearing in mind what we already know of the PS3, Sony have not cut any corners in selecting the best cutting edge components for there so called "Truly NextGen Console". Without doubt they have thrown plenty of money in its development. If the PS3 had come out in Spring 06, with the RSX GPU based on the original E3 2005 spec's , it would have already been eclipsed if not outdated by the G7900 GPU. I don't think the RSX will be a super reveloutionary GPU because it doesn't need to be when teamed up with a super CPU like Cell, Flexio bus & closed architecture. It's more realistic to expect a G7x GPU with some G80 technologies or a G80 GPU customised & stripped down.

There is one another possibility that challenges all of this 'RSX Is More'' theory which I'm aware of.

Maybe the RSX was never meant to be anything more than originally spec'd back in E3 2005.

Why & How ?

Because there is a LOT more power in the Cell processor than we realise. It does better than any GPU at preliminary maths work (e.g. processing vertices) & than passes it to for RSX to simply render & rasterize. In this scenario RSX would not have to be all that mighty but simple, efficient & relatively cheap. It would just possibly need to have some additional tweaks to help it become a bigger shader monster. This is under the speculation that the Cell processor is more powerful than we realise (maybe upgraded to 4GHz in the final PS3 if 3.2GHz is not enough to fulfil this speculation).

Anyone fail to notice the recent sudden jump in quality of all games ? ? !

I guess something has changed in the hardware of the final developer kits.

There are rumours saying Resistance: Fall Of Man is being bumped up to 1080P like MGS4.. Certain indication to me that we are not lacking power in the PS3 graphics front.

In summary..

"There was a time round the start of this thread when i was desperate for the RSX to be something huge & much better than Xenos. But having seen the recent state of first gen games still under development I am no longer as concerned. I now feel convinced the PS3 will be able to match the graphics of the E3 2005 target renders for Motorstorm & even KillZone in due time.

Whatever the RSX is we don't need to worry. Combined with the Cell & Blu-Ray it will be able to deliver NextGen games that we will want to show off. Maybe we should try not focus so hard on RSX as a single entity but instead as a component which will combine with the rest of the cutting edge system to form the PS3. A console system & more that looks like it will be delivering on all fronts."

There is not long to go before this thread will come to a conclusion & until than i will hold to my guns. Just remember.. .

It Ain't Over Till The FAT Lady Sings



I CAN'T WAIT TO BRING THE ORIGINAL THREAD BACK ALIVE ! ! !
Hopefully I will also get a +rep shower if all works out true !

Happy BDAY MILR !

:stirpot:

[frosty]

G80 "leaked" specs

Unified Shader Architecture;
Support FP16 HDR+MSAA;
Support GDDR4 memories;
Close to 700M transistors (G71 - 278M / G70 - 302M);
New AA mode: VCAA;
Core clock scalable up to 1.5GHz;
Shader peformance: 2x Pixel/12x Vertex over G71;
8 TCPs & 128 stream processors;
Much more efficient than traditional architecture;
384-bit memory interface (256-bit+128-bit);
768MB memory size (512MB+256MB)


If that is true, looks like they listened to CPI's calls for more vertex power.

4.02 GHZ cell and 1.5 GHZ RSX! Liquid nitrogen cooled and powered by an internal nuclear generator. Coming to a Best Buy near you for $495!

[archy121]

Let me say if we get a RSX that is anything like G80 it will not be a FULL BLOWN G80 solution like the PC part. It woud have to be a custom low power consuming solution.. kind of 7600 equivalent solution using G80 GPU. And of course the G80 is related to the NV47 core.. with extra bells & whistles..

[frosty]

I doubt we'll see clock speeds in the GHZ or any type of USA for RSX in PS3... (too many F@$%& acronyms!)

[woundingchaney]

Actually the USA of the G80 itself is as of now a rumor. Several reports are indicating unifed shaders and several others are saying Nvidia is going to stick with its current shader architecture just more of it.

[Crossbar]

Man, this thread is totally off the whack.
QFT!!!!

[Pistolero]

Why do people look down at the G70 architecture ? It's a very powerful, proven architecture that will produce great results baked by a CPU monster. RSX is not an NV47...It's a sort of in-betweener : An evolution of that technology plus some tweaks to work efficiently with the cell. Just because Xenos is a clean sheet doesn't mean the PS3 GPU has to be the same in order to be competitive...because IT IS.

[woundingchaney]

Why do people look down at the G70 architecture ? It's a very powerful, proven architecture that will produce great results baked by a CPU monster. RSX is not an NV47...It's a sort of in-betweener : An evolution of that technology plus some tweaks to work efficiently with the cell. Just because Xenos is a clean sheet doesn't mean the PS3 GPU has to be the same in order to be competitive...because IT IS.
Noone is saying that but there is a certain mystique asociated with new tech. things in the tech. industry usually follow a unilinear evolution, as to say they progress on a steady line and for the most part progress with more power/efficiency.

Its comparable to views on the Xenon and Cell. Cell is the clean slate where Xenon is the more familiar architecture.

[agentorange]

Why dont we juts give up on this one. RSX is not that G80 base. It is not very pwerfull and PS3 rely more on the cell which is more important. Please stop it juts accept that rsx is not that mindblowing but still the cell is good and we saw great games like Lair and FF13 is its realtime

[Kabbage]

Why dont we juts give up on this one. RSX is not that G80 base. It is not very pwerfull and PS3 rely more on the cell which is more important.

Neg Coming... need to spread rep around

[Fazares]

you venerate cpiasminc here...if i m correct....then...be aware of this...hes laughing his ass at us....now...

[Smokey]

you venerate cpiasminc here...if i m correct....then...be aware of this...hes laughing his ass at us....now...
lol true :)

[darksurge]

Why dont we juts give up on this one. RSX is not that G80 base. It is not very pwerfull and PS3 rely more on the cell which is more important. Please stop it juts accept that rsx is not that mindblowing but still the cell is good and we saw great games like Lair and FF13 is its realtime
Oh look whos talking crap again. RSX not very powerful, based on what? all we know is its based on a 79... part with some custom bits. Two seperate 128bit buses beiing one of the modifications. If you are trying to say that cell does most of the graphics work, you realy do not know what you are talking about.
What i find intresting is that Rsx has 302 million transistors. they would not need the pure video technology found on pc parts as Cell decodes all forms of video without the need of help from the graphics card(unlike pc cpus) So what are all those transistors used for?

[RavenFox]

You know what the most upsetting thing for me is when I read these threads? That people are always so willing to believe them.

Nerve-Damage has been wrong on *every* RSX theory he has ever posted - and they've all been from 'insiders' in the past.

I mean, how many of you are still onboard with this (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=61914) recent 'inside information' of his?

I'm sorry but, either Nerve Damage is extremely gullible and anonymous sources love to play him as a tool to their own rumor spreading devices... or it's just that some of 'us' are gullible here for buying into this stuff.

I laughed afte reading this. Not in a bad way mind you but for you being right. I like Nerve but I felt ahhh I just wanted to give him a shoulder to lean on.

Oh and happy Birthday MILR :-)

[makeitlookreal]

Alright. I'm back. I had to get a little sleep. I really feel that since NVIDIA has been working on the G80 for a *long* time that it only makes sense that they could fit some version of it into the PS3. When the PS3 was going to be launched originally the 7800 would have been cutting edge, but now it's not. But to keep the RSX cutting edge they would have needed to improve the technology and that could be the G80 RSX Version 2.0.

Thank you RavenFox! Yep. I'm one year older today.

[Goki]

Happy bday MILR + repped

Damn this thread was created today and already got almost 2000 views!!
Keep expectations low people, its better for your health lol

[makeitlookreal]

I excited and have high expectations either way.

If the RSX does not get an upgrade I will be happy. If it gets an upgrade to the RSX 2.0 I will also be happy. I just can't wait to find out one way or the other.

Thanks for the REP! I do appreciate it.

[Insane Metal]

Congrats MILR :)

[ddaryl]

if the RSX has anything G80 based then this was planned at least a year ago. There is no way Sony or Nvidia could have or would have done these upgrades at the last minute. This would require quite a bit of R&D in a PS3 enviroment and would have needed the plan to be implemented back around E3 2005.

However by Sony not releasing the finalized specs of the RSX the internet hype machine seems to be working for Sony on its own.

I'll just look at the games and judge them, the specs no longer are necessary IMO. The only reason I really enjoy the specs of a new machine is to speculate what the games will look and behave like. We no longer need to speculate, so the official numbers don't mean that much to me anymore.

[OmniCloud]

Nerve Damage from what I've heard and seen is pretty unreliable...I'd seriously take this with a POUND of salt if u know what i mean. I see people getting a little too worked up over this..

[makeitlookreal]

Specifications do mean a lot and trust me having a G80ish RSX in the PS3 would make a major difference in future PS3 games.

[altares]

Well, we'll all know about it very soon, since the first pics of G80 cards are leaked, and as of that nvidia will HAVE to talk soon.
But personnaly I've lost my faith about it...

[VG Aficionado]

Nothing personal against N-D, but honestly, I have to think this is most definately false since N-D's history of theories on Cell and RSX doesn't back him as a reliable rumour starter. Unless proven wrong, I know the RSX is based on the top of the line Nvidia GeForce 7 series GPU and customized for PS3, which is by no means bad, just not too overkill.

[Nameless]

Honestly I'm not that concerned one way or the other...
Considering the great 1st generation titles and confirmation that developers are just scratching the surface of the PS3 power we are in for some amazing gaming with the PS3. If the upgrade takes place that's great, because when you think about it in about 3 years the PS3 could be competing with the next Xbox console. (Xbox XXX) If Sony could manage to take advantage of the console delays and add a cutting edge GPU it would be a huge win and ensure the console could compete even with a new Xbox console. Only time will tell, but Sony should consider that their delays could lead to a very short window before another Xbox console could be released to the market. I doubt MS will rush another console to market, but you never know if they don't see the market share anticipated with the 360 and they are bleeding cash. Just food for thought... Peace

[Viano]

I have some very accurate insider sources telling the RSX is gonna be

...a great gpu





:thumpsup:

[Smokey]

I have some very accurate insider sources telling the RSX is gonna be

...a great gpu





:thumpsup:
linky :)

[Viano]

oops just a high lv joke loL

[Smokey]

lol i was jokin too :)

[Viano]

personally I don't think there's going to be some major changes from what they showed from e305. no offense but how many leaked infomations were true I wonder loL

lol i was jokin too :)

woo you got higher lv than me loL

[rpgamer_2k5]

Even though I would love a Cell-esque GPU with G70 pixel shaders; it's probably not going to happen.

The RSX is a G70 derivative.

Regardless of Kutaraji's lie which was in the lines of - RSX is not a PC derivative.

The Geforce 7900GTX, heck even the Geforce 7800GT is a fine GPU. The visuals it offers is next-generation and it's one of the same level as anyone out right now.

However when looking at the visual, it seems a little the Geforce 7900GTX could do a lot more than on the PC in a short time even though the Cell is a pretty difficult CPU to program for. Or it could mean that the Cell is aiding the Geforce 7900GTX in graphics as well. :)

[julps31]

Honestly I'm not that concerned one way or the other...
Considering the great 1st generation titles and confirmation that developers are just scratching the surface of the PS3 power we are in for some amazing gaming with the PS3. If the upgrade takes place that's great, because when you think about it in about 3 years the PS3 could be competing with the next Xbox console. (Xbox XXX) If Sony could manage to take advantage of the console delays and add a cutting edge GPU it would be a huge win and ensure the console could compete even with a new Xbox console. Only time will tell, but Sony should consider that their delays could lead to a very short window before another Xbox console could be released to the market. I doubt MS will rush another console to market, but you never know if they don't see the market share anticipated with the 360 and they are bleeding cash. Just food for thought... PeaceI'm with you man. But i really doubt that MS will release another console in 3 years. The 360 was just released. So it would be premature to say the least (nevermind that the 360 was released prematurely..it was only a year before the PS3 and Nintendos console was comin out).

But i think the people saying it wont happen with 100% certainty are just as bad as those sayin its likely. Nobody on here can predict the future so stop that saying it WONT happen. Even if its not likely. Mind you I don't think it will happen but i wont say its outta the realm of possiblity because i don't work for Sony or Nvidia.

[cliffbo]

if ND is right he should make an I TOLD YOU SO! thread but if he is wrong he should still be praised for at least making a reasonable discussion that relieves the boredom when there is no real news.

by the way HAPPY BIRTHDAY MILR.

:)

[rog27]

Guys we're getting a little carried away here at the thought of RSX = G80. We know its based on the NV47 architecture which is not a G80. If anything, it may have some shader core instructions/extensions that are G80-ish added much like a few GeForce 4 instructions/extensions were added to the nva25 part tha was in the original xbox.

[msantti]

I'm with you man. But i really doubt that MS will release another console in 3 years. The 360 was just released. So it would be premature to say the least (nevermind that the 360 was released prematurely..it was only a year before the PS3 and Nintendos console was comin out).

But i think the people saying it wont happen with 100% certainty are just as bad as those sayin its likely. Nobody on here can predict the future so stop that saying it WONT happen. Even if its not likely. Mind you I don't think it will happen but i wont say its outta the realm of possiblity because i don't work for Sony or Nvidia.

I think they certainly will within 4 years.

MS has already pulled the "cut and run" with the original XBox, so whats not to prevent them from doing it again?

[julps31]

I think they certainly will within 4 years.

MS has already pulled the "cut and run" with the original XBox, so whats not to prevent them from doing it again?Well with the 360, MS was trying to beat PS3 and the Wii to the market. But if Sony repeats its PS2 performance than the PS3, the console generation will be longer than 5 years. So the market for a new console wouldn't be there.

[Rizon]

Finally reaching the end of the 8 page reading marathon, i have read so much.

I think there is a fairly good chance that he is right.
Sony have taken the details off their site a good while back. The delay. It kinda makes sense.
Confidential legal mumbo jumbo cant really make differnce, we all know how sony hardly tell anyone anything about what they're doing as it is.

Someone mentioned about the next X-box. I believe that is very true, 3 to 4 years a new one is on the books for a release per chance? Sony know as much as we do about what Microsoft are doing, so they have to play it right. And really, selling technology that is like a year old, then ok, Its really immpressive, but i think theres definatly some room for improvement on it since they have delayed it.

I'm taking this with a pinch of salt, but from where im looking. It could well be true.

oh yeh
Happy 27th MILR

[Nameless]

I thought you guys should see this post from Beyond 3D: (DeanA is a PS3 developer in the UK)

To babcat/MILR, I've said this before, but man.. you really need to get a grip. Sony have already said that it's NV47 based. That is *it*. End of story. And before you take someone elses quotes out of context, I'm not even sure what Barbarian is on about with regards to the normalisation ops.. NV class hardware has had 'free' FP16 normalise for an age.. it's nothing new. Developers have fairly detailed specifications of RSX available to them.. and with the current level of direct access to the GPU that developers get, magically transitioning to a different architecture (which is what G80 is, if you've ever read any of the threads about it) is a complete non-starter. If you want that detailed information, your options are simple.. either become a developer (), or get one of your well-informed-but-surprisingly-always-completely-wrong insider friends to leak the docs to you. I asked you this over at the NT forums, but what specifications do you *actually want to see*? How can you apply some kind of bizarre mapping of (for example) what a particular architectural detail/quirk does to the end-user experience of playing a game on PS3? From your posts both here and there, I find it hard you'd be able to do anything with the 'full specifications' other than repeat them parrot-style ("parrot-style.. parrot-style") on this and every other board you frequent.

Based on this information it's fairly safe to say the rumor has been confirmed false... It still would be good to see some final specs from Sony regarding the RSX, but I'm not sure if Sony plans to release specs.

MILR, it's cool man... and if the rumor is false (most likely is...) it sucks you got worked up for nothing... Peace

[VG Aficionado]

There you go, it's been debunked. That's what I expected.

[Fazares]

that deanA guy ripped milr apart...:-/

[Nameless]

^ I think it's obvious no need to point it out...
DeanA and MILR have a history from the Ninja Theory forums, because I have to admit that MILR has been somewhat obnoxious on their forum trying to get the developers to disclose information on the RSX and not violate their NDA...

I respect the tenacity MILR, but I don't always condone the methods...

PS: Fellas it's MILR's birthday so chill out on any smart ass comments. Peace

[Fazares]

btw...is the rsx a modified ge7800 or a ge7900..or a ge7950...?:-/

[cliffbo]

no it`s a G100 -53 based GPU with some tweaking or was that squeaking? j/k

anyway what the heck were all those sony and nvidia engineers doing for all those 2 yrs+ knitting sweaters?


:)

[Fazares]

no it`s a G100 -53 based GPU with some tweaking or was that squeaking? j/k

anyway what the heck were all those sony and nvidia engineers doing for all those 2 yrs+ knitting sweaters?


:)
btw...if the specs leaked from watch impress stay true...i m fine...nonetheless...rsx+cell+flex-o+blue ray..thats the way of looking at the things...ps2 was great...and its gpu was crap...

[Sephiroth_VII]

no it`s a G100 -53 based GPU with some tweaking or was that squeaking? j/k

anyway what the heck were all those sony and nvidia engineers doing for all those 2 yrs+ knitting sweaters?


:)
That's what has me stumped, too. They've had almost 2.FUCKING.YEARS since they announced RSX at E3, and until PS3 went into production last month. What the fuck have they been doing in the tech department?:stunned:

[version]

x360 will get new firmware with 1080P support, and works fine with 256 GB/s vram bandwith
rsx has 20, a lowcost slow gpu, sony will still silence, nintento tooo

[version]

m$ will win

[makeitlookreal]

First of all, this has absolutely NOT been confirmed false.

Because if it is true probably the developers might not even know about it yet.

The whole basis of this thread is that the RSX is getting an upgrade to a NEW model.

Yes, the RSX that has been in devkits already is indeed a 7800/N47 with a few modifications or tweaks.

But the new RSX Version 2.0 would not be in the hands of anyone right now.

Once again, that is the key here. If this is true then Sony is doing something to surprise just about everyone.

And I'm doing this and have been doing this because I believe all the consumers of the PS3 deserve to know it's specs, period.

Also, I agree that if Sony has been doing nothing at all through all these delays to improve their hardware then I am even less impressed with them as a company.

[frosty]

You know, for a thread that everyone hates so damn much, it sure does attract a lot of people.

[Nameless]

^ MILR, DeanA makes a good point regarding existing software... If Sony made such a significant GPU architectual change existing code could be effected and no longer work... I think a more plausible theory would be some of the G80 designs are implemented with the cell so it's a hybrid G70/G80 if that makes sense. I just can't see Sony completely changing the GPU architecture at the last minute and not disclose this information to developers. Just take a minute and think it through and you will see my point. Peace

[xbdestroya]

You know, for a thread that everyone hates so damn much, it sure does attract a lot of people.

With thread titles like this... it's no surprise that visitors get pullled in.

Also on DeanA, I want to point out that this guy is not a traditional 'developer,' and he is not DeanoC from Ninja Theory (which sometimes people confuse him for). He works *for* Sony at their UK SCEE office, and he works on the tool development side of things (I believe).

Point being, when DeanA says something, it means more coming from him than just about anyone else it could come from. I know several devs that go to him when they have questions about the hardware.

If DeanA says it's NV47, it's NV47.

[version]

what is the g80? maybe a faster g70+geometry shaders
need for us geometry shaders? NO ! there a superfast cell
but what is the problem with g70? ONLY memory size and bandwith
this is not g70 or g80 thing, only design and many

g80 has 384 bit memory bus and 100 GB/s bandwith , 5-times faster than rsx
x360 has 256GB/s , rsx"s memory TOO SLOW

[woundingchaney]

m$ will win
This isnt really about your comment, but man you are hilarious.

I find it extaordinarily fuuny how you swoop in make a simple statement and start the madness.


+Rep, if nothing but for originality.

[xbdestroya]

This isnt really about your comment, but man you are hilarious.

I find it extaordinarily fuuny how you swoop in make a simple statement and start the madness.


+Rep, if nothing but for originality.

You should have seen his original post which I deleted. ;)

[version]

that was the truth xb...

[version]

but x360 will be stronger , you deleted the reality?

[makeitlookreal]

I made a proper response to Dean A and Beyond 3D. I will repost it here.

For the last year or more I have spent probably several hours a day trying to dig up information as to the exact specifications of the RSX. It has become like a duty of mine to find the information and release it to all the world. Quite frankly, because not only am I very curious and interested myself, but I want to stand up for my fellow consumers by helping uncover the specifications for a piece of hardware they are going to be purchasing.

Personally, I wish I could let this go and walk away and just wait to play some PS3 games, because I have spent thousands of hours googling, reading message boards, and searching through the web for information. If you want to make fun of me for that then I don't care. If some of you think I'm nuts then hey, call me whatever you like. But at least I have been consistant on trying to uncover the specs of the RSX.

My hope all along is that if I could somehow track down the information and repeat it parrot style, monkey style, chimp style, retard style, idiot style or whatever kind of insulting style you want to say I've been using, that Sony would realize the specs have been leaked and go ahead and release the information officially. Yep, if I obtained the final specs somehow that is what I would do is go and repeat them and repeat them, because even though I'm DARNED curious myself I know the information needs to be out there for all the other interested people, and others who are planning to purchase the console.

Right now, I can't be certain if I know *anything* about the RSX that Sony has not already released publically. For thousands of hours being glued to my computer screen until my eyes burned I have nothing. I thought I had some information finally from Barbarian's post, but now many of you have indicated it might possibly be incorrect or wrong. So, after all this time, I have nothing at all. But I will keep on searching, keep on looking, and try to obtain the information.

I followed Nerve Damage's statement because it represents something else that might have a chance of being true. The likely hood does not matter as long as there is a tiny chance when your in my position. The one unique thing about his information (if it's true which we don't know) is that *if* it was to happen it would surprise everyone. It's not saying the G80 RSX has already been out and about. It's saying that the current RSX is indeed N47 based, but a NEWLY created model of the RSX (what I call RSX Ver. 2.0) would suddenly appear to be used in the PS3. Yes, the proposes all sorts of problems and issues. But I'm not saying it's CERTAINLY going to happen or CERTAINLY legitimate. However, if it did turn out to be true these are things that only Sony would know how they were going to solve if it be by another delay, amazingly fast transition, the fastest delievery of dev-kits ever, etc.

I'm proud of this thread and thankful to Nerve Damage for sharing his information. I'm also thankful to everyone who has discussed this theory in a constructive way without suddenly getting upset, jumping up and down, trash talking this thread, or saying mean or rude things.

In the end I hope we all find out the truth about the RSX. Hopefully, that will happen at least by Sony's October Pre-Launch event (if there is not another delay) and we can all know one way or the other. If not, I will keep on searching and searching until it is revealed.

And you can surely bet that if I find the information one minute before Sony announces it that I will repeat it...

Parrot Stye.
Monkey Style.
Mime Style.
Robot Style.
Alien Style.

And every repetitive style I can to get the information out there to the consumers who are considering purchasing Sony's product and those gaming folks such as myself who are so curious about the GPU that's powering the amazing games we have seen so far.

You can't embarass me or make me feel bad, because I'm perfectly content with my searching so far. I'm a fat, over-weight, single, live-at-home-with-my-mommie, scifi loving, balding, and cat loving person (felines are wonderful creatures and are like my family) and I'm perfectly happy with that!!!

Now on with the discussion of the RSX!

LONG LIVE THIS THREAD!

[woundingchaney]

LOL

Milr if you had the tenacity in life that you do for gaming you could be president, amigo.


Never the less, happy B-Day man.:clapping:

[xbdestroya]

but x360 will be stronger , you deleted the reality?

Alright alright, I undeleted it. Post #155 everyone.

Version you get in some strange moods sometimes. :smoke:

(by the way I disagree with Version's logic completely, but hey...)

[Pumpkin Head]

Happy b-day MILR

[woundingchaney]

x360 will get new firmware with 1080P support, and works fine with 256 GB/s vram bandwith
rsx has 20, a lowcost slow gpu, sony will still silence, nintento tooo

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h108/woundingchaney/orly.gif



LOL

Damn it I just couldnt resist.

[frosty]

all 360 play hd-dvd. do not delete my reality!

x360 edram has 256GBs. x360 also have 1Tflop. That means one terrible flop.

[PUNK em 733]

And you can surely bet that if I find the information one minute before Sony announces it that I will repeat it...

Parrot Stye.
Monkey Style.
Mime Style.
Robot Style.
Alien Style.



AAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAH AHAHAHAHA
AAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

That was fuckin' classic GOLD! ++REP!

I went back to versions post, it was hard to follow that broken english.

[VG Aficionado]

All right, it's time to make sense:

:locked:

[venomv]

I think you guys should cut Nerve some slack, his sources do seem to be extremely unreliable at times, but he has every right to, and I think should, post every rumor (about something as important as the GPU, espiecially) that he comes across.

[woundingchaney]

Well easy to see why Version's statement was deleted.

[version]

iam big sony fan and works to cell, that is fast :)
but the architecture has too much problems

such as, rsx cant use compressed textures from xdr and more ..

[xbdestroya]

Version you are so random man.

RSX will be able to pull textures from the XDR just fine; don't you go buying into the FUD now! ;)

[makeitlookreal]

I think you guys should cut Nerve some slack, his sources do seem to be extremely unreliable at times, but he has every right to, and I think should, post every rumor (about something as important as the GPU, espiecially) that he comes across.

AMEN!

I totally agree. Nerve Damage is simply reporting on some information he was given. I'm thankful that he shared it with us.

[makeitlookreal]

I want to thank everyone here for all the good wishes, plus REPS, and kind words.

[Crossbar]

Nine pages of discussing nothing, and everyone but a few could see this coming.

No thanks to Nerve-Damage from me, everyone who immediatly stated their disbelief deserves a fair amount of recognition. Everyone else should consider them self as easy targets for any April fools joke.

[GUNDAMSEED]

well my first post , all sudden version thinks rsx can't get compressed from Cell lol. x box 360 can now upscale to 1080p wow version . Topic like this should just be lock in the early .

Side note i think any one thats was follows the ps3 would have to know that rsx would need take some bandwith from cell. Also Since when x box 360 has 256gbs bandwith . WTF some people has been on here for 2 plus years and don't know you can count edram like normal bathwith.

[yoshaw]

I believe most of us are having fun with the ignorance (or fanboi dreams) that abounds...

QFT!

PS: Couldn't have said it any better.


DEANA, He works *for* Sony at their UK SCEE office(Xb's words)

Shifty, you're wasting your time pitching this argument with the guy.. I tried reasoning with him - with the very same argument (ie specs for processors in TVs, MP3 players, DVD players etc) - over in the forums they have over at www.ninjatheory.com.. he hears only what he wants to hear. And in response speaks nothing but chuff about some God-given right to know detailed technical specifications.

To babcat/MILR, I've said this before, but man.. you really need to get a grip. Sony have already said that it's NV47 based. That is *it*. End of story.


:closed:

[makeitlookreal]

He works for Sony. If something was cooking there is the chance he would abide by the party line.

[xbdestroya]

Yoshaw, nAo didn't write that. What forum did you get that bogus quote from?

See... this is why the Internet is totally busted, and why we're here in a thread like this in the first place.

Posts #147 and #160 in this thread for the real deal on that quote.

[yoshaw]

:Doh, I mean DEAN A sorry. Isn't he a NT developer :huh:

Also, I thought DeanA Nao are the same? No?

[xbdestroya]

:Doh, I mean DEAN A sorry

LOL, ok... but he's *still* not a Ninja Theory developer as you state, y'know? ;)

(Post #160)

[yoshaw]

LOL, Gotcha

If DeanA says it's NV47, it's NV47.

QFT,

[makeitlookreal]

Anyone going to view this conference?

http://www.digitalscarborough.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19

SONY to present the PLAYSTATION 3 platform
SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT EUROPE
A new games platform always presents new challenges and opportunities for game developers. Igor Makaruks of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, introduces the PLAYSTATION 3 at Digital Scarborough 2006 - a new state-of-the-art entertainment platform from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. due for launch next year. This technical presentation will provide an overview of the system architecture including the Cell processor and the new graphics processor (RSX) along with the Blu-ray storage medium. It will also include information about the new development tools and is aimed to give potential developers and new media companies an insight into PLAYSTATION 3 title development.
TALK 1 - Developing for PLAYSTATION 3 (with 30 minute Q&A Session)

CENTRAL LIBRARY (Saturday 14th October 2006: 11AM—12.30PM) - Igor Makaruks of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe and Charles Cecil of Revolution Games . Coffee & biscuits provided.
A new games platform always presents new challenges and opportunities for game developers. Igor Makaruks of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, introduces the PLAYSTATION 3 - a new state-of-the-art entertainment platform from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. due for launch next year. This technical presentation will provide an overview of the system architecture including the Cell processor and the new graphics processor (RSX) along with the Blu-ray storage medium. It will also include information about the new development tools and is aimed to give potential developers and new media companies an insight into PLAYSTATION 3 title development.

Igor joined the SCEE Technology Group in the summer of 2005 after completing his Computer Science Degree in Riga, Latvia. Igor's primary role is supporting PSP (PlayStation Portable) and PLAYSTATION 3 developers by creating graphic related sample code to improve game performance. He is also involved in consultancy and training developers throughout Europe and actively participates in public game developer conferences worldwide.

This session is aimed at individuals who are currently working in the games industry, for students from the School of Arts & New Media (The University of Hull) and for those who are interested in developing PLAYSTATION 3 games with help from Sony Computer Entertainment Europe's developer support programme. Over a few cups of coffee you will also have the chance to discuss and listen in on PLAYSTATION 3 games development topics with Igor Makaruks in a 30 minute Q&A session chaired by Charles Cecil of Revolution Games .

If you would like to attend please book your place via the Digital Scarborough website www.digitalscarborough.org. Just click on the link - 'Book Online'.
TALK 2 - PLAYSTATION 3 Technical Overview & Graphics Demonstration

CENTRAL LIBRARY (Saturday 14th October 2006: 2PM—3PM) - Igor Makaruks of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe
Igor Makaruks of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, introduces the PLAYSTATION 3 - a new state-of-the-art entertainment platform from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. due for launch next year. This basic introduction will provide an overview of the PLAYSTATION 3 system architecture including the Cell processor and the new graphics processor (RSX) along with the Blu-ray storage medium.

If you would like to attend please book your place via the Digital Scarborough website www.digitalscarborough.org. Just click on the link - 'Book Online'.

TALK 2 - PLAYSTATION 3 Technical Overview & Graphics Demonstration

CENTRAL LIBRARY (Saturday 14th October 2006: 2PM—3PM) - Igor Makaruks of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe
Igor Makaruks of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, introduces the PLAYSTATION 3 - a new state-of-the-art entertainment platform from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. due for launch next year. This basic introduction will provide an overview of the PLAYSTATION 3 system architecture including the Cell processor and the new graphics processor (RSX) along with the Blu-ray storage medium.

If you would like to attend please book your place via the Digital Scarborough website www.digitalscarborough.org. Just click on the link - 'Book Online'.

[version]

igor , a lie-detector in my hand , whn you tell the truth:D

[archy121]

m$ will win


Whateva.. You're like a one trick pony with same meaningless one liners..

:dazed:


All I can say PS3 fans are in a win win situation. We already have seen games to joy over with RSX being whatever it is. The only thing M$ have over Sony is endless supply of money to buy out exclusives & best marketing in the world second to Apple. So far I have not witnessed a single XBOX360 game from the second gen wave that can top the best of PS3's -including GeOW (seen the latest demo's.. so & so..).

As I already said in my earlier G80 speculation thread (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=59665) it would have made lot more logical sense for Sony to have invested in a nextgen GPU that uses technology like G80 if it wanted to maintain the market lead it already enjoys (Nvidia were 100% already working on G80 technology when Sony approached them). This would help to create a far superior console system to main rivals & provide the key differentiator which would make people flock towards a PS3.

If Sony cannot strongly differentiate on the hardware than it will have to win in the games by a large margin - but this is not going to happen easily this generation round as we have seen M$ is investing heavily in buying out the best exclusives it can get its hands on. I belive this forms M$'s main counter-strategy this gen round & it is where they failed last time round. Secondly although PS3 games look superior to XBOX360 (IMHO), we have not yet seen a HUGE difference that warrants someone buying the PS3 purley for its GFX prowess. It's all about the games you want & what platforms has it or can buy it out.

If the PS3 has no G80 type GPU (i.e. superior nextgen console GPU) with enough power/features to help it convincingly surpass its rivals during it's life cycle, Sony's market share will undoubtly shrink & hurt them long term.

Although overall M$ will not win this generations console war with Sony, they will have won enough of the market share to make them even bigger & more dangerous contenders for the following console generation. Armed with the deepest pockets, confidence & a more lucrative market share, M$ will attack even harder with XBOX720. Sony's PS3 will have bought in lower profits by winning a smaller market share because of stronger competition from Wii & XBOX360. M$'s console market share will relatively be in the rise whilst Sony's in the fall. I than belive M$ will be in the postion to overtake if not even destroy Sony's console lead next time round.

Sony need to cut the serpents head now if they are to survive long term in the console market as M$ is getting stronger with each generation. If the PS3 turned out to be far superior console than we are all expecting i.e equipped with G80 like GPU it would provide the differentiator that i belive could help to do really 'Big Damage' to M$, stop the rot & maintain Sony's market share.

It's possible that Sony have taken a gamble & rather than concentrate in creating the best gaming console they have gone with the compromised strategy of offering a console, a computer (Linux) & a media hub solution.

Jack of all trades but master of non.

I can understand Sony's need for this as this is where the future undoubtly lies & M$ is already covering all these areas for global domination. M$ bought the war to Sony by entering the console market & Sony has been forced to respond with a solution that counters attack on all fronts & in one go converges - gaming, computing & media.

Anyhow whatever the RSX is this generation around we are set for some great looking & enjoyable games as well as the chance to experience HD movies. I belive the future of Sony consoles following the Playstation 3 generation solidly lies in what they deliver this time round.

Peace & be happy.

:trismile:

[julps31]

Version=Bill Gates biggest fan.

[Raijin]

If DeanA says it's NV47, it's NV47.

End of story, Nerve-Damage am owned, close this thread! :p

[nemesis121]

I can unofficially confirm that the RSX will be based off NVIDIA’s upcoming G80 technology. The latest IP has been done for quite sometime (actually 3 months); NVIDIA will be announcing details soon. Anyhow, my source is very legit…works for NVIDIA!! You don’t have to believe me…but my source is a very honorable person. Maybe not to NDA agreements...

I’m so positive about this, I posted it at B3D :Carrot:

WOW you created the same thread here too, right now they Laughing there asses off at B3D, first off even me with little too no Tech knowledge can tell you that RSX is not based on the G80 series, the RSX development started a long time before they really got into the root Development of G80, they might have taken one or 2 things from early in the G80 chipset development, but it doesn't make it a G80, the same way the Xenos has Dx10 and WGF 2.0 elements of those technology, but it doesn't make that chip a DX10/WGF 2.0 compatible chip.

[GUNDAMSEED]

What is funny is people think that DX10 will mean anything to ps3 . Also that pc devs will even use 75% of the power of DX10 cards for next year or 2.

[archy121]

Its not the DX10 API compliancy that would be of interest but the the fact the g80 can support all such defined fuctions in hardware be it via dx10, opengl or direct metal. Also more importantly there is SS4.0 which is definately nice have.

Anyone know when Nvidia is supposedly going to anounce the G80 & RSX press news (irrelevant of whether they are related or not) ?

:smoke:

[makeitlookreal]

Once again, let me repeat something.

I think we ALL know that the RSX is simply a G70 with 24 pixel pipelines, 8 vertex shader pipelines, 8 ROPS, etc.

However, we are not talking about the RSX developers have right now. We are discussing a possible FUTURE RSX (very near future) that might exist.

[archy121]

removed - double

[PS3LikeNoOther]

Does anyone remeber a while ago when Sony paid nvidia an additional amount of money. I think it was in march or April this year, and I think it was discussed here.(I will look for it) Could it be possible that they were closing in on finalization of the RSX in January and relized that their would be a delay. Mabye Sony and nVidia got back together and tweaked the RSX for the last six or seven months, therefore making Nerevs statment very possible.

I will look for a thread, but when you start adding up all of the evidance like incomplete dev kits, sonys silince, the second partenership with nVidia, and the later release date this is possibly Sonys October bomb.

[GUNDAMSEED]

The way how pc gpus are going is not the best way for a home console.

[rog27]

All you people are getting caught up on PR speak and the fact that RSX is not an exotic beast.

What you are not realizing is that RSX is a BEAST in context of the PS3.

I can easily illustrate my point.

For example...Sega's Lindenburgh arcade unit is simply a 3.0 ghz Pentium4 with a 6800 GS graphics card. A freakin 6800GS! And we get Virtua Fighter 5 awesomeness from that.

The fact that it is a closed box system and the devs are not burdened with such a thick programming layer (API) allows them to get right down to the metal and access all the power in the box. There are little to no inefficiencies compared to open-platforms in this way.

The architectual configuration that the PS3 has from a system level and the way it has been tweaked allows for pure awesomeness. If you thought of PS3's architecture as an arcade board, you could bet that only the most advanced and expensive arcade games would come on that architecture. Sure, there is a learning curve for devs...but sooner than later good devs will have wrapped there head around the PS3 and helped to disseminate that knowledge to the community at large...so that everyone's collective investment in the PS3 is benefitted in the future and to ensure the PS3 becomes a viable platform. The PS3 does have its weak points like any architecture, but so does the X360. In terms of overall power...the PS3 has a bit more under the hood. The difference after a year or so will definitely become apparent, mark my words.

History repeats itself. The same things were said about Dreamcast's seemingly efficient architecture compared to PS2's, but after a while it became apparent that PS2 had more under the hood (although it was harder to get at). The same thing is going to happen this time except you can replace "dreamcast" with "x360" and "ps2" with "ps3". I'm not insinuating anything more than the parallels with the technology here, meaning I'm not predicting failure for x360. I'm just pointing out a reality which will become apparent soon enough.

[makeitlookreal]

Here is the URL for a presentation on the PS3 and the RSX.

It is supposed to be in October.
http://www.digitalscarborough.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19

[Insane Metal]

Here is the URL for a presentation on the PS3 and the RSX.

It is supposed to be in October.
http://www.digitalscarborough.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19

Cool ! Thanks^^ :hugegrin:

[xone_4]

isn't the games made for NV47 or any other gpu is about 85% compitible withe the next gpu card at least,(the newest gpu is backward compatible with the nearest older ones) so if they change the gpu there well be a little need for tweaking,upgrading and bug busting b4 meeting a deadline?
even if it can not get any benefits from the new gpu technology?
i think there no need to build the games from the ground up every time a new gpu is released!

[Zer0-Sum]

Deadboyz: Remember that your PC won't be using the full speed of your GPU, since the software isn't programmed specifically for it. With a closed system like PS3, games released late in the PS3's lifetime has a chance of reaching G80 level(theoretically).

This is true. Which is why I love consoles over PC's for games any day. For example, I love how far they pushed PS2 so far. But by that point, a G80 series card will kick even more ass in PS3. That and it has the bonus of working with the Cell, a chip that NO PC system can match as of yet. Is it still a two way line of communication between the Cell and the RSX? I had heard this was the case a few months ago. Also I would like to know the level of customization that NVidia did to the RSX/G80. How much diffrent will it be from that of the retail PC model?

And if this is all true, then it makes the $600 dollar price tag a little more resonable for me. My 7900 cost $500. PS3 costs $600 for the fully loaded modle. And a G80 might be in it? How much does one of tose cost retail? Oh wait, you cant get one yet.......:laugh:

[Garfunkel]

this is just one big conspiracy theory :book: :shifty:

MILR, thanks for the link, only 13 days away now! than let the ND flaming/praising begin!

[Nameless]

4500 views in 24 hours, wow... That's gotta be some kind of record on this forum. LOL!

[makeitlookreal]

Is there anyone in here that will be able to attend that conference in England?

Archy, will you be able to go to that Conference?

[Nameless]

^ Are you serious man?
I guess you will cover expenses if someone can find time in their schedule to attend. :huh:

[PUNK em 733]

http://gallery.brawl-hall.com/data/media66542/5/epicthread.gif

[yoshaw]

http://xs307.xs.to/xs307/06401/ERPsays.jpg

http://xs107.xs.to/xs107/06401/Closed.jpg

^Lucky people, they understand.

:sleepy:

[makeitlookreal]

No, I can't cover anyone's expenses. I'm broke. But I know at least a few people already live in England so it's possible they might want to attend and then report back. I'm not telling anyone to do anything, and just wondering if anyone in here might attend.

[Applefiend]

Yeah, but if someone started a thread saying "RSX isn't G80 stupid, it's a G70/71 tech with a little extra caching", who would have cared. :)

Got to keep ourselves entertained until March somehow.

[cornholio12]

the thread title should be changed to "I nerve-damaged owned by ps3 devs but hey i created a psinext record of 4500 views in less than a day. abracadabra beyotches! w00t w00t"

i have nothing against nerve infact i couldn't careless if the rumor was true or not.

PS. if somebody messages you and tells you he's an insider you tell him to fuck off! lol

[Red_Eyes]

And then a few days later, Sony announce that the RSX is base on G80 technology and then bam! The look on all your faces. Lol.

[yoshaw]

What's hilarious in these emerging G80 threads, is that...

PS3 developers and SCE employees have zero respect/integrity compared to the source of Nerve Damage. What's even more hilarious is that people seriously think Xb is smoking some awesome stuff while mentioning that none of the rumors 'Nerve-Damage' ever posted from his sources, ever became true.:roll eyes:

And if anyone hasn't already, ERP is a developer whose quote I specifically screengrabbed to avoid any trouble as on the previous page. lol

[makeitlookreal]

How many times do I have to say is that this new RSX would be something that no developer would currently know about!

[yoshaw]

And you would?


LOL, yea I believe in RSX 2.0 :roll eyes:

[Raijin]

I may have some info about it... But not sure if I would post them.

[Garfunkel]

This thread will be closed soon if you guys don't shut up!!!

this is speculation, not fact!

[Raijin]

This thread will be closed soon if you guys don't shut up!!!




Seriously, It's not like It would be a great loss. :p

[Viano]

can we just talk about PS4?

[cliffbo]

if there was a RSX 2.0 as you call it,it would probably be a slight revision change ie:improved power efficiencies etc.. not a brand new g80 based unit or anything the only real hope you may have for a secret extra function or something would be if
the advances on the g80 were something that were originated on the rsx and further developed to become the g80 i just don`t see it being the other way around as it`s surely too late for them to upgrade to even some of the g80 specs.

:)

[agentorange]

Close topic RSX is not G80 or even near the power of 7900 GT okay. They are more advance since they are made later than rsx which is more like 7800

[Bliss]

Close topic RSX is not G80 or even near the power of 7900 GT okay. They are more advance since they are made later than rsx which is more like 7800

mmm...not so sure...

[darksurge]

Close topic RSX is not G80 or even near the power of 7900 GT okay. They are more advance since they are made later than rsx which is more like 7800
Will you please stop talking crap.You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. While the rsx is not a G80, Nvida had finished silicon back from the fabs in January. Saying the RSX is not even near the power of a 7900 gt is just plain stupid. You do realise the RSX contains more transistors than a 7900gt dont you?. If you are going to make these claims please back it up with some evidence, oh wait thats right you can not because you do`nt have any. You make the same claims time after time in various forums and its getting pretty old now.

[overclocked]

Ok to all that dont know.

7800GTX 110nm 302m/t
7900GTX 90nm 278m/t (no mistake, the same core, more tex cache but 24million transistors less)

In the first case nVidia wants to brag how many transistors they have.
In the second, how effecient and dense the silicon is.
Thats PR.

Number of transistors dont equal performance if not spent well.
In the case of G71x the transistors IMO is spent well because of just the PR that
is actually right. Its small, it performs great, not to much heat etc.

Just learn the basics about transistors and GPUs that are indepht.

B3D has some very good(7800 review) and some other site´s also.

[Generosity of God]

i dont understand why people care so much if the RSX is one or the other.

whatever version it is, it is producing some incredible graphics. and you know they will get better as time goes on.

will the RSX being a G80 honestly make everyone's experience so much better?

i honestly dont think its worth the cost for Sony to bother.

frankly i'd hate to see everyone's expectations for PS4. people already demand so much from PS3 that the PS4 will either not live up to expectations or again cost alot more money.

"i hate it, it doesnt look anywhere near enough to real life" "it's not worth the same price as PS3 when it launched" are the kind of comments i'd expect to see especially when the tech they put in it doesnt meet peoples demands. and then Sony has to sell it at a bigger loss than they did with PS3.

IMO if you're not happy with what you get with PS3 then you got problems.

[cpiasminc]

you venerate cpiasminc here...if i m correct....then...be aware of this...hes laughing his ass at us....now...
Actually, I was off in meetings in Osaka for a while and sleeping off the jet-lag, so I didn't really see the thread until now. And my response, rather than laughter is more of exasperation and holding my head down wondering why we're going through this mess again.

Why on earth would you buy this now? What possible reason would there be to believe that RSX would suddenly be G80 based when it's been said for a goddamn long time that it's G7x? 3 months since the root IP was finalized? That's hardly even halfway enough time to go from tapeout to production.'

There's no way in hell there's any unique design piece from G80 that's ready to roll out and ready to go into production.

Close topic RSX is not G80 or even near the power of 7900 GT okay.
I wouldn't quite say "not near the power of 7900 GT"... 7900 GTX, maybe, but the GT isn't quite so far off.

They are more advance since they are made later than rsx which is more like 7800
Actually, all the PC GPU designs in the G7x family predate the RSX in the land of design. Just because they were sold on the market after RSX was a known quantity doesn't mean much more than marketing and production volumes. The entire G7x line is basically just one chip at different specs and different quantities of stuff removed from the root design (which actually describes the top-of-the-line for that family). That's actually how every nVidia/ATI chip family usually is.

The fact that this thread has gone on for 12 pages is just sad. It's all a bunch of hoping and praying that there's nothing wrong and everything about the PS3 is superior in every way. That's why MILR starts threads like this one (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34028), as if to veil that he's just searching for some sort of hopes that everything will be okay (points for attempted sneakiness). RSX is a G7x -- it's fillrate limited (and so is Xenos), it does not have geometry shaders, it does not have double the RAM or 16 ROPs or 64 MB of eDRAM. Get over it.

[version]

flexio has 20+15GB/s=35GB/s, why?? when xdr has 20gb/s
cell cant communicate with rsx in direct connect only through memory
possibke xdr expansion or what the f.ck???

[jaxmkii]

Close topic RSX is not G80 or even near the power of 7900 GT okay. They are more advance since they are made later than rsx which is more like 7800
and you know this how?!

earning your stripes again...

[cliffbo]

Does anyone remeber a while ago when Sony paid nvidia an additional amount of money. I think it was in march or April this year, and I think it was discussed here.(I will look for it) Could it be possible that they were closing in on finalization of the RSX in January and relized that their would be a delay. Mabye Sony and nVidia got back together and tweaked the RSX for the last six or seven months, therefore making Nerevs statment very possible.

I will look for a thread, but when you start adding up all of the evidance like incomplete dev kits, sonys silince, the second partenership with nVidia, and the later release date this is possibly Sonys October bomb.

yes i remember that. i would like to think that you are right with possible tweaks but at the end of the day i am more than happy with the first generation games i'm seeing. motorstorm is arguably photo realistic already, Resistance is just plain incredible with an incredible amount going on on the screen simultaneously. there has to come a point were improvements to chips only increase its power by the smallest degree and at this point manufacturers will have to decide whether to guarantee a cooler running chip and of course cheaper to manufacture. i can see the PS4 being the wheel that cannot be reinvented. PS3 will near that point in five years in my opinion. specs are starting to get right up my nose. LOOK AT THE GAMES!

[woundingchaney]

I'm dancing around the house like this right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbCmnRztK1Y&mode=related&search=
That is the single greatest thing I have seen out of the next generation.


Damn hilarious.


:djparty:

LOL "Give it up for me!!!!"