PS3 controller:Potentially as innovative as Wii?

[OmniCloud]

There's been a storm of PS3 news floating around. TGS I think pleased a lot of people-and I think M$ surprised some with just how far they could get with their wallets-lol. But as the console wars unfold-I think the PS3 controller was really left outta the equation. Most of the topics we have seen recently, I think debate which hardware is technically superior, which console has the most promising software from a mostly graphical view-point, and ultimately-which console you will have the most fun on. Rarely do I see an ENTIRE argument based on the functionality of the controller.

Why? With the Wii-that's the center of the conversation. Yet PS3's controllers does a lot of things that the Wii can do-and it seems to offer a unique and compelling experience just the same. However, we refer to the controller as tilt versus rumble completely diminishing it's capabilites when there's so much more going on inside. Here's the link for a preview for Monster Kingdom. And part that I find the most interesting.
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3153985&did=49
Stealing monster spirits makes one of the better uses of the PS3 tilt-control in the early games we've seen. When your attacks have sufficiently weakened an opponent, you can see a misty shadow of their spirit emanate from them. Pressing L1 initiates the capture process and the motion control kicks in. A series of arrowheads appear on screen, and indicates which direction to tilt the controller. Depending on how weakened your target is you may have to do this a couple times, back and forth, before the final flick of the controller, like setting the hook on a fish, pulls in your new monster spirit. And of course we know Warhawk is utilizing it but I think Lair was a big push as well...
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/734/734196p1.html
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p1.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13322&type=wmv&pl=game
One unique element that made it all come together was the motion control. You virtually hold the reigns of the beast purely with motion control in ways you might expect -- but we also break new ground by utilizing our radically new gesture recognition system: If you pull on the reigns, the dragon does a 180 turn, if you punch it in a direction, you dash towards your enemies, if you dodge with the controller, the dragon on-screen dodges. If you latch onto certain objects in the game, you can tear them apart by wildly shaking the controller.
On the ground, you stomp your enemies by ramming it down - and these are only a few examples. It's a whole new paradigm and certainly the most exciting thing for me as a game creator since the analog stick came about. It makes very complex moves very, very accessible for a broader audience. People who traditionally cannot play these types of action games due to the lack of analog precision and too many button combinations intuitively get it, while the pros get moves and a level of control that simply aren't possible on a stick.

Finally, in addition to the radically new gameplay mechanics, our take on fantasy has a darker, more contemporary tone and story, and we aren't shying away from themes that are very relevant right now - moral choices in wartime, religious extremism, political pretense and separation of church and state, global climate catastrophes. It's an epic story which we tried to put as many layers as possible into.These are two games that look to use the controller in unique and fun ways-but honestly these are two of the most obvious. However, with MGS4 I'm almost sure that the barrell and snake simply rolling around so quickly from side-to-side was done by using the controller's motion sensing. The new interview for Ninja Gaiden Stigma already reveals that the controller will be taken advantage of for the game.-
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=13668
MotorStorm is now supporting it even more than was previously expected. And can you imagine simply darting the controller downwards and having Nero unleash his Devil Arm and smash enemies to the floor! (I don't think Capcom has announced support for the controller in DMC4-simply speculation)

The Wii controller is a VERY unique hardware device. I'm fairly sure that there will be games that can ONLY be experienced on Wii. This fact seems to be nonexistant with PS3 games though-since they seem only slightly better than 360's currently. Is it not reasonable to conclude that if the devs support the PS3 as strong as they are now-then the software would be just as exclusive as Wii? For example, I can't imagine a complex fighting system like "Ninja Gaiden" being optimized for the Wii controller. I think it would be too simplified and probably won't make the experience more entertaining and more importantly, more challenging. These hardcore action games REWARD you for using more buttons-something the Wii controller is specifically not designed for. So what happens-when a great action game, (GoW3:drool:) with a great control scheme, focuses on the motion sensing capabilities and builds the character's arsenal around that? Or a racing game that looks prettier than MotorStorm-but controls seamlessly with the motion sensing? Flight games are obviously the first step, moving forward however, I think there will be many developers who base there game around the controller.(Lair) Then there will be developers who do make the controller an addition to the overall game. (Resistance) And more than likely-they'll be the devs that'll simply put some minute feature in the game just to say they're utilizing the function on the back of there game's cases. (EA-lol)

If this thread seems quite familiar to "PS3 destined for Success" thread well that's because it is. I still think PS3 will be a remarkable console, and I think the controller will be a big part of that success. The home console experience is a completely different feeling than portable. PSP and DS are very good experiences-but I firmly believe that even when PSP-"picks up steam" with big games like MGS, Killzone, and the quality RPG's that's in store for the system appear, DS will still have the upper hand. I think Nintendo have certainly outsmarted EVERY other company on the portable side of things-I just don't see how Wii can compete 5-6 years with PS3...

[Siraris]

It has the exact same technology as the Wii except being able to know where it is in 3D Space. That is what the sensor bar is for. I would assume that developers could get an initial reading from a game and then extrapolate where the controller exists.

Anyways, yes, aside from the ability to know where it is in 3D space, the Wiimote is the same as the PS3 controller.

[MegaCot]

(Sorry, I hate the Wii, but...)

PS3 controller: Potentially as innovative as Wii's?

http://www.theimageplace.net/uploads/12345812dd.gif

[PhYmon]

I knew that someone will make fun of Kaz as MegaCot did.. and I dont think the PS3 is as innovative as the Wii controller, u can do alot of things with the Wii controller than PS3s one, I hope we can get to see some new stuff we can do on the SIXAXIS..

[OnBake Platinum]

How is doing the same thing as the other guys innovative?

[frosty]

Because it wasn't copied, Sony has been working on the sixaxis controller for years.

[PhYmon]

I dont know Frosty.. why they didnt show the controller from the beginning? Dont shoot me just yet I love the PS3 (it has some much technology, thats the thing I love about it) but Im kind of sceptic about the SIXAXIS controller been developed years ago..

[GTShotoKen]

I dont know Frosty.. why they didnt show the controller from the beginning? Dont shoot me just yet I love the PS3 (it has some much technology, thats the thing I love about it) but Im kind of sceptic about the SIXAXIS controller been developed years ago..

When you're a huge company with a lot of market share, it becomes very intimidating to simply change a winning formula. You don't want to alienate your consumers and lose market share. It is easy to say otherwise now that everything is out of the door, but thinking that way is far from the truth. Nintendo pretty much had to create the Wii to gain back the market because it would have fallen in last place if it would have tried to emulate the competitors like last-gen.

I can't say whether Sony was overly cautious or perfectly right with how and when they premiered the SIXAXIS design, but I very much understand the logic behind their choice. Why not watch your competitors who are fighting for your title and see how and what they are doing? The acceptance of the Wii controller was probably the final sign they needed to whether they should demonstrate SIXAXIS to the public or not.

I personally believe this would have been implemented either way as rumble would still have been out of the question.

All I know is that Nintendo is once again the company that is forcing the evolution of the Gaming industry and their making our lives as gamers much more interesting (like Sony did with the push for full 3D and CD based publishing).

This is why I love competition!

[Pluto]

I think it's pretty lame that Nintendo has to innovate their console while essentially keeping their titles the same. But, that's just me.

Like the Wii, the Sixaxis has a lot of potential uses in the future. [ Or like the DS, we'll be doing the same things over and over with the Wii and Sixaxis. :) ]

[OmniCloud]

How is doing the same thing as the other guys innovative?U can say that about so many systems it'll be pointless-honestly-do u really believe Sony saw that the Wii remote was cool-went into R&D and then Voila!!! Out came a brand new controller with motion sensory??!! I belive the Wii acceptance was the push but just saying the ripped them off or did the same thing is not justisfied-because they're not the same thing. U play PS3 games and Wii games COMPETELY different-just watch all the vids for proof.

Besides Gaming Guru and Nova--i don't think some of u got the point. It's not that the PS3 controller is better or MORE innovative that Wii's. It's simply because PS3 has the basics of motion sensing-while keeping the comfortable dual Shock-the games will have a brand new layer to add to the gameplay. Who made it first or who stole who was not the point of this thread-and it's really irrelevant at this point. Read the post again-and really see what I'm saying, I think you will find the "EXPERIENCES" aren't that far apart and almost equal in potential. Where the Wii outshines the PS3's controller in functionality-the PS3 makes up for w/gameplay because of the more powerful system...

anyway-tks for the replies fellas. I prefer arguing over real issues rather than listening to the sounds of a new system starting up. eh...sometimes tha could be fun tho-lol

[EvilTaru]

Ultimately it will be the SOFTWARE that will innovate using the controller and with internal developers like Team Ueda/Kaido, I have no doubt we will see some really cool, interesting, and most importantly meaningful implementation of the motion sensing controls.

[OmniCloud]

I agree....Looking at White Knight STory-I am itching to see what Team ICO does on the new hardware!:drool:

[n1n9tean]

How is doing the same thing as the other guys innovative?

OngBak: The Last One Left.

[GTShotoKen]

Besides Gaming Guru and Nova--i don't think some of u got the point. It's not that the PS3 controller is better or MORE innovative that Wii's. It's simply because PS3 has the basics of motion sensing-while keeping the comfortable dual Shock-the games will have a brand new layer to add to the gameplay. Who made it first or who stole who was not the point of this thread-and it's really irrelevant at this point. Read the post again-and really see what I'm saying, I think you will find the "EXPERIENCES" aren't that far apart and almost equal in potential. Where the Wii outshines the PS3's controller in functionality-the PS3 makes up for w/gameplay because of the more powerful system...

I was actually replying to Phymon's post.

I wasn't saying any of that at all, but oh well. ;)

I pretty much agree. :)

[PhYmon]

Well Guru, I wasnt actually saying that Sony just suddenly saw the Wii remote and then decided to add it to their controllers overnight.. I was just saying or asking why didnt they just show it off for the first time on E05.. thats all. I guess they didnt have it ready or they just wanted to wait a little more and see how the other players were going to respond to their hardware.. but who knows..

[GTShotoKen]

Well Guru, I wasnt actually saying that Sony just suddenly saw the Wii remote and decided to add it to their controllers overnight.. I was just saying or asking why didnt they just show it off for the first time on E05.. thats all. I guess they didnt have it ready or they just wanted to wait a little more and see how the other players were going to respond to their hardware.. but who knows..

I know, but all of this goes back to what I was saying in my previous post.

It wasn't until after E3'05 did anyone have any true idea of what Nintendo was trying to do.

Sony was still iffy on whether to introduce the SIXAXIS concept or not.

[PhYmon]

Sony was still iffy on whether to introduce the SIXAXIS concept or not.
Thats right.. but Im sure Im going to miss the rumble function..

[PhYmon]

Sony was still iffy on whether to introduce the SIXAXIS concept or not.

[PUNK em 733]

Thats right.. but Im sure Im going to miss the rumble function..


Within a year rumble will be introduced with sixaxxis.

And as far as sixaxxis being as innovative as wii, no, but close.

[GTShotoKen]

Thats right.. but Im sure Im going to miss the rumble function..

Aren't we all? :(

[chrismt]

Well it's not as daring but almost as innovative. I'm sure Sony had worked a bit on the tech just in case someone introduced motion control, and when the Wii controller was catching on they started working in earnest to match the ability. I'm glad Nintendo is here to get Sony rolling and incorporate everything good into their systems like rumble, motion control, analog sticks, etc.

w00t, 1337, pwn for the consumer!

[nwo504]

i hope the response time is fast enough or i wont use it.

[Old_Timer!]

Why is the Wii controller such a big innovation, is it because it's a remote controller with pointer abilities, with a sensory bar to tell where is space it's located. Or could it be the speaker that's built into the unit for that extra umph, sure the add ons are interesting but over all it's too much.
The sixaxis has almost all the same abilities as the NinWii controller, minus the pointer ability and who really wants a sensor bar? Not only that but the sixaxis controller is just so welcoming, it's light yet durable and a familiar design that's known worldwide.
Overall the Wii controller might have more features due to add-ons, but 6axis is just all that in a sweet lil package.

[nwo504]

its really up to the developers.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I think people are just sleeping on the playstation 3 altogether. Once it drops everyone is gonna be like oh crap/oh snap, I need one. I honestly prefer integrating motion detection into the preexisting controller design over the new Wiimote interface, although I'll be getting a Wii sometime next year, presuming it does well. If there's any system that people are buying on potential it's the Wii, not the PS3.

[ded5850]

Within a year rumble will be introduced with sixaxxis.

And as far as sixaxxis being as innovative as wii, no, but close.

What makes you think this? Personally, I'd love to see it back. I almost would prefer it to the Motion Sensing. I mean, it will be cool of course, but just reading all that stuff you could do in Lair made me want the rumble even more! I mean, dashing up to Enemys and ripping walls to shreds? I'm sure we can all agree we'd love to "feel" the carnage taking place. But this isnt happening.

How could they succesfully implement this anyways? Sure 3rd parties will make controllers, but what good is it when no dev develops for it?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Shut up about rumble! It's not coming, that's final, be a man.

[ded5850]

But it's sooooo nice. I miss it already:cry2:

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Okay but come on. We know it's not gonna be in there. Crying like a little b**** isn't gonna help. I'm sorry man, that's just the way it is. And I think it's for the better.

We've all established that it's not gonna be in the SIXAXIS controller for the sake of a the tilt functionality (cost, like kaz mentioned), which I think will make games much more immersive (pun intended) than vibration functionality. Just wait. If you really stop and think about it, isn't putting your body and arms into playing a game way more tactile than just letting vibrations and pulses come through the controller? IMO it will be.

[vdo]

If there's any system that people are buying on potential it's the Wii, not the PS3.

That's a very good observation.

With regards to controllers of both systems, I think the Wii controller will have some strengths in the fact that its shape and spacial tracking will allow for a different variety of gameplay than what the PS3 controller will.

On the other hand, the PS3 controller will allow a player to use a familiar analog stick/button configuration and tilt/move/turn/shake that during a game while still using the traditional aspects of that type of controller. So there may be times where it is more advantageous to have a game being controlled with standard analog stick/button control as the primary input and using the motion as enhancements to that. And that is an experience that the Wii contoller is not as tuned for.

So I don't think that it can be stated that the Wii is everything the PS3 controller is, plus more. I think the above mentioned differences will be advantages/disadvantages for both, depending upon the gameplay the developer is using motion for.

[Applefiend]

To me, the most important thing about that 6 axis stuff is that's optional. With Wii, you're stuck with it, it's it's whole selling point.

Because I think the first day with Warhawk or Lair I'm doing my six axis stuff, then the novelty wears off and I finish the game on twin sticks.

No rumble, but maybe they'll support this: http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Disc_Announcements/Industry_Forecasts/Fox/Fox,_D-Box_to_Shake_the_Booties_of_Blu-ray_Viewers/272

D-Box. Hubba hubba.

[EvilTaru]

To me, the most important thing about that 6 axis stuff is that's optional. With Wii, you're stuck with it, it's it's whole selling point.

Because I think the first day with Warhawk or Lair I'm doing my six axis stuff, then the novelty wears off and I finish the game on twin sticks.

No rumble, but maybe they'll support this: http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Disc_Announcements/Industry_Forecasts/Fox/Fox,_D-Box_to_Shake_the_Booties_of_Blu-ray_Viewers/272

D-Box. Hubba hubba.

I think Eggebrecht mentioned in the 1UP interview that using the motion sensor Lair actually plays MUCH BETTER than using dual-sticks, and that's the whole point of using it. It's not some sort of "novelty" but a more intuitive and responsive way of controlling a game character via quick and easy gestures instead of button combinations.

[Mirai]

Quite simply put, if you're doing something that someone else has already done, you're not innovating.

[EvilTaru]

I don't think that's important as long as they execute it well. As long as games support the functionality in meaningful ways, I don't care someone else did it first.

[frosty]

How could they succesfully implement this anyways? Sure 3rd parties will make controllers, but what good is it when no dev develops for it?

For a hard drive, or form of disk storage, it does prevent the developer from using it if it is not in all systems. However, rumble is an unneccessary novelty. Lets not forget when the first Dual Shock was introduced on PS1... Ask yourself this... did PS1 ship with standard rumble? Did it eventually use it even though not all systems were rumble equipped? The only thing preventing rumble in the sixaxis is cost, and I commend Sony for saving me the $20 per controller, unlike Nintendo. Now rumble can be optional.

[Applefiend]

Well I don't care if it controls better, I'm playing Warhawk on my sofa stretched out on my back with a beer balanced on my ample belly, as the good lord intended us to play video games.

[masteratt]

Don't shoot me but Wii-Mote is a gimmick in my opinion.
Innovative blah blah...WHO CARES.

We know PS has the titles to give us (well, me at least...thats why i am buying one you see) the best experience in gaming and with now the best visuals and a new INPUT (as Ka mentioned...rather than feedback that was rumble) Sony's games will be much more involving and a whole new kind of experience.
So in that way- SixAxis is MUCH MORE innovative than Wii-Mote. If WiiMote doesn't get boring after a month- all hail Nintendo.

[ddaryl]

I like the PS3 Sixaxis, because it embraces what is already the best controller design for any console and improves upon it without resorting to a major overhaul.

The Wii's controller will allow for some interesting games, but it's novelty will run out pretty quick. Nintendo really had little choice but to do something really radical, otherwise what would the Wii be, just a suped up Gamecube. Now the Wii is a suped up Gamecube with freaky deaky controller. It adds some appeal to the fact the Wii is the cheap option, and cannot pump how High Defintion graphics, nor can it compete in the AI, Physics, etc... departments.

I couldn't imagine playing motorstorm, warhawk or heavenly sword with the Wii's controller. I'm sure there will be ways to do it, but to me it'll be gimmicky and in the long run it's not going to revolutionize gaming that much, nor is it going make Nintendo the console king IMO.

[venomv]

Factor 5 said they had the control scheme in their mind when they started making LAIR (which was on 04), how could they do that if Sony wasn't at least considering motion sensing?

[masteratt]

Guys as a regular reader of this forum the "Sony stole the controller!" argument (and the counter-argument) really pisses me off so try not to go down that road again please as that thing has been beaten to death, came back to life to be beaten to death again and now let's not wake it up once more!
How-ever happened, it happened. Get over it.

[vdo]

Factor 5 said they had the control scheme in their mind when they started making LAIR (which was on 04), how could they do that if Sony wasn't at least considering motion sensing?

In this video, Factor 5 talks about how they were trying to convince Sony a while back to include motion sensing and are not sure how much influence that had:

www.gamevideos.com/video/id/6557 (sorry, I don't have enough posts to put a link, so put a . in between gamevideos and com) [I added the link for you - D3adcell]

So the considerations were there far before the announcements. Actually Factor 5 mentions that they wanted motion sensing for Rogue Leader for GameCube, but were unsuccessful in convincing Nintendo at that time.

Nintendo announced their solution sooner and so were seen as the innovators and Sony was seen as the copiers.

[venomv]

Nintendo announced their solution sooner and so were seen as the innovators and Sony was seen as the copiers.

That is the truth and the only thing we really have to go by, Sony likes to hold everything tight and Nintendo had to show that because it was the only thing they had........

Welcome to the forums!

[Z]

just ot let it out there, in an OPM issue, they showed that PSOne had a 3rd party controller that uses motion. and even that doesn't prove anything since PC motion controllers appeared earlier.

people have to realize that the 'concept' is certainly not new. Ninty gets credit for mentioning it first as a default control method (just as LIVE may be considered innovative in the console world). people forget that consoles are complex electronics machines that utilize many developments to do what they are supposed to do: execute interactive programs. like with PC and other CE developments, the next step is built on the previous one.

I say there is a tiny minority that need to take out the signed brick out of their ass and not be so God damned stiff!

[OmniCloud]

Guys as a regular reader of this forum the "Sony stole the controller!" argument (and the counter-argument) really pisses me off so try not to go down that road again please as that thing has been beaten to death, came back to life to be beaten to death again and now let's not wake it up once more!
How-ever happened, it happened. Get over it.Tks Masteratt-I stated already that was NOT the point of the thread...but enough people go it so...Enjoyed reading everyone's comments-all that's left now is to wait I guess. I wouldn't be too worried about rumble in PS3 games-just like it was stated PS1 didn't come with rumble controllers. If a developer feels like there game is best played with rumble-it'll be in there.

[D3adcell]

I personally don't think that the PS3 controller is going to be as innovative as the Wii at all. However it will have its own unique values that even the wii cannot mimick (or wont due to the default controller not being a traditional controller).

Like say MGS4, you can still play with the joysticks and shoulder buttons and everything, but say you go up behind a guy, press square and grab him. Then you can interogate him or twist the controller and snap his neck.

While not as innovative as the Wii (you wont see games like elebits or red steel) it will certainly bring fresh gameplay experiences.

[MegaCot]

The reason I'm more keen on the SIXAXIS than the Wiimote is that even if it doesn't work out you can still go back to your other games without any loss. Fighting and adventure games work a hell of a lot better on Playstation. How are they gonna work with that with the Wii?

[Z]

While not as innovative as the Wii (you wont see games like elebits or red steel) it will certainly bring fresh gameplay experiences.
there is no technical reason why such games couldn't be made on PS3...while looking, moving and sounding 50 times better.

[D3adcell]

there is no technical reason why such games couldn't be made on PS3...while looking, moving and sounding 50 times better.

Well the fact that the ps3 controller doesnt work in 3d space or as a pointer device kind of hinders it from doing everything the wii can do.

[Domination]

There's been a storm of PS3 news floating around. TGS I think pleased a lot of people-and I think M$ surprised some with just how far they could get with their wallets-lol. But as the console wars unfold-I think the PS3 controller was really left outta the equation. Most of the topics we have seen recently, I think debate which hardware is technically superior, which console has the most promising software from a mostly graphical view-point, and ultimately-which console you will have the most fun on. Rarely do I see an ENTIRE argument based on the functionality of the controller.

Why? With the Wii-that's the center of the conversation. Yet PS3's controllers does a lot of things that the Wii can do-and it seems to offer a unique and compelling experience just the same. However, we refer to the controller as tilt versus rumble completely diminishing it's capabilites when there's so much more going on inside. Here's the link for a preview for Monster Kingdom. And part that I find the most interesting.
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3153985&did=49
And of course we know Warhawk is utilizing it but I think Lair was a big push as well...
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/734/734196p1.html
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p1.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13322&type=wmv&pl=game
These are two games that look to use the controller in unique and fun ways-but honestly these are two of the most obvious. However, with MGS4 I'm almost sure that the barrell and snake simply rolling around so quickly from side-to-side was done by using the controller's motion sensing. The new interview for Ninja Gaiden Stigma already reveals that the controller will be taken advantage of for the game.-
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=13668
MotorStorm is now supporting it even more than was previously expected. And can you imagine simply darting the controller downwards and having Nero unleash his Devil Arm and smash enemies to the floor! (I don't think Capcom has announced support for the controller in DMC4-simply speculation)

The Wii controller is a VERY unique hardware device. I'm fairly sure that there will be games that can ONLY be experienced on Wii. This fact seems to be nonexistant with PS3 games though-since they seem only slightly better than 360's currently. Is it not reasonable to conclude that if the devs support the PS3 as strong as they are now-then the software would be just as exclusive as Wii? For example, I can't imagine a complex fighting system like "Ninja Gaiden" being optimized for the Wii controller. I think it would be too simplified and probably won't make the experience more entertaining and more importantly, more challenging. These hardcore action games REWARD you for using more buttons-something the Wii controller is specifically not designed for. So what happens-when a great action game, (GoW3:drool:) with a great control scheme, focuses on the motion sensing capabilities and builds the character's arsenal around that? Or a racing game that looks prettier than MotorStorm-but controls seamlessly with the motion sensing? Flight games are obviously the first step, moving forward however, I think there will be many developers who base there game around the controller.(Lair) Then there will be developers who do make the controller an addition to the overall game. (Resistance) And more than likely-they'll be the devs that'll simply put some minute feature in the game just to say they're utilizing the function on the back of there game's cases. (EA-lol)

If this thread seems quite familiar to "PS3 destined for Success" thread well that's because it is. I still think PS3 will be a remarkable console, and I think the controller will be a big part of that success. The home console experience is a completely different feeling than portable. PSP and DS are very good experiences-but I firmly believe that even when PSP-"picks up steam" with big games like MGS, Killzone, and the quality RPG's that's in store for the system appear, DS will still have the upper hand. I think Nintendo have certainly outsmarted EVERY other company on the portable side of things-I just don't see how Wii can compete 5-6 years with PS3...

I have to disagree about the two controllers being the same. Nintendo seems to have more packed into the Wii-mote compared to Sony's dual pad.

But I do agree with you that by these two having such unique controllers, they are placed in a better position in capitalizing on their competitors as far as exclusives. Just from my general perspective, I see this and other added advantages as a major playing piece this generation.

BTW, tilt is being used in Marvel:Ultimate Alliance (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/736/736871p3.html) as well.

[venomv]

Well the fact that the ps3 controller doesnt work in 3d space or as a pointer device kind of hinders it from doing everything the wii can do.

It would have to do it diferently, but there is no reason the control couldn't be made to play games identical to those.

[BruceWayneIII]

I remember a developer mentioned (maybe Eggebrecht at TGS) that the sixaxis is so precise in terms of acceleration, that they basically could do a 3D positioning of the controller.

However, the fact that the Wii controller is held very differently, does make it more suitable to pointing. In my view, the motionsensitivity in sixaxis is an expansion of the usual control scheme. Games don't have to depend on it. It'll be used where it works great. In other cases it won't be used as much. Great flexibility.

[OmniCloud]

I have to disagree about the two controllers being the same. Nintendo seems to have more packed into the Wii-mote compared to Sony's dual pad.

But I do agree with you that by these two having such unique controllers, they are placed in a better position in capitalizing on their competitors as far as exclusives. Just from my general perspective, I see this and other added advantages as a major playing piece this generation.

BTW, tilt is being used in Marvel:Ultimate Alliance (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/736/736871p3.html) as well.I didn't know Marvel:UA was utilzing it too, tks man:thumpsup:

I don't really wanna "point" with the PS3 controller-but since it's lighter-I guess it could be done. I think games where ur pointing a lot will be better just because of the shape of the Wii's pointer-but I still stand by the experiences will be pretty even on both. Not the same, but even in terms of playablity and fun.

[Shadow Voa]

^ That is something to be determined of course considering in my opinion the tilt is a disappointing feature added as rumble was dropped. Plus I didnt like the implimentation of the tilt in Warhawk. It kinda turned me off the game, but its not fair to say it was entirely the tilt since I wasnt that interested in it from the start. But I would have to disagree the Wii controller will most likely harbour much more "different" gameplay experiences that are just not possbile on the PS3.

We've seen every kind of sport on all of the consoles but take Wii Sports for example, its not my cup of tea but I believe everything in that game could simply not come to life quite as well as what Nintendo is hoping to accomplish. The interactivity in the games that are heading towards the Wii simply is in another league.

The idea one swings his baseball bat, swings his racket to connect with an on coming tennis ball. These are just examples of games that can be played on PS3 and 360 by simply moving the joystick and pressing a button that will rally or hit the ball back. Granted, the PS3 could impilment the tilt in ways that make you feel like your in the games, but no way on the level that the Wii is aiming for. Thats not to say you couldnt play something like PS3 Sports using the tilt feature. Its not just that, its games like Red Steel and Elebits which just seem to draw from the Wii's point style controller. From the natural feel of precision aiming with the controller, its just something I dont see the PS3 controller being able to do and Im fine with that. Hence why I need to different systems to satisify my gaming needs.

Well... that's at least what I believe. My PS3 will be for coventional gaming methods of controll and graphics, my Nintendo Wii will keep me busy in the inovative dept.

[Old_Timer!]

Have you guys seen the way they're utilizing the PS3 controller for NBA 2k7, I don't see the Wii being used like this. It's perfect for basketball games, or baseball compared to the Wii remote because of it's compact design where as it seems the Wii does well as a bat, sword, or other striking object.

The 6axis will be just fine for almost all the games you mentioned Shadow, but it do it with a bit more class compared to the Wiichuck

Source:http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/815/815873/vids_1.html

[OmniCloud]

+rep Old-TImer!! Nice find....^ That is something to be determined of course considering in my opinion the tilt is a disappointing feature added as rumble was dropped. Plus I didnt like the implimentation of the tilt in Warhawk. It kinda turned me off the game, but its not fair to say it was entirely the tilt since I wasnt that interested in it from the start. But I would have to disagree the Wii controller will most likely harbour much more "different" gameplay experiences that are just not possbile on the PS3.

We've seen every kind of sport on all of the consoles but take Wii Sports for example, its not my cup of tea but I believe everything in that game could simply not come to life quite as well as what Nintendo is hoping to accomplish. The interactivity in the games that are heading towards the Wii simply is in another league.

The idea one swings his baseball bat, swings his racket to connect with an on coming tennis ball. These are just examples of games that can be played on PS3 and 360 by simply moving the joystick and pressing a button that will rally or hit the ball back. Granted, the PS3 could impilment the tilt in ways that make you feel like your in the games, but no way on the level that the Wii is aiming for. Thats not to say you couldnt play something like PS3 Sports using the tilt feature. Its not just that, its games like Red Steel and Elebits which just seem to draw from the Wii's point style controller. From the natural feel of precision aiming with the controller, its just something I dont see the PS3 controller being able to do and Im fine with that. Hence why I need to different systems to satisify my gaming needs.

Well... that's at least what I believe. My PS3 will be for coventional gaming methods of controll and graphics, my Nintendo Wii will keep me busy in the inovative dept.U mention a couple games for Wii like Tennis Elebits-which are great examples-I actually think games like Mario Galaxy & Red Steel are better comparisions to the PS3. I got a DS-and loved it for like a month. My point-I don't think this new way of playing games is for everybody. Swinging at a screen is one of the games that could be easily done on PS3-but games like Mario where it's easier to control Mario with one hand, and these do actions with the pointer is an example of Wii exclusive content. On the other end-games like Lair are completely impossible on the Wii! In terms of functionality with the controller-no, but the overall game, definitely! If u take away PS3's processing power-which is a big reason why they can even have the "simplified" motion sensing-then the Wii wins hands down! I wasn't trying to take that out of the equation tho. If u compare experience-to-experinece, I think they come out pretty even. Some people will love Wii games just like DS titles-others will play it every so often-same thing with PS3-some people will love it, others will probably turn it off. Just side-by-side tho, I think there pretty equal. I can say Elebits, Mario Galaxy, and Red Steel will be games that u can only experience on the Wii. vs. Lair, Ninja Gaiden, and Motor Storm which u can only experience on the PS3.

[Shadow Voa]

Some people will love Wii games just like DS titles-others will play it every so often-same thing with PS3-some people will love it, others will probably turn it off. Just side-by-side tho, I think there pretty equal. I can say Elebits, Mario Galaxy, and Red Steel will be games that u can only experience on the Wii. vs. Lair, Ninja Gaiden, and Motor Storm which u can only experience on the PS3.

Absolutely man I agree that games like Lair and Ninja Gaiden are things that PS3 will make shine, but this is only because of what Sony is packing under the hood of the PS3. A downgraded graphic's and level of details (ala Xbox quality) can 100% be done with the Wii. Your point grabs me as one that this is based on graphical differences which there can be no doubt of the limitations Wii possesss.

But what I dont understand is how you can surmise that some people will either love it or hate it? It's not so simple to conclude something like that at this point. A lot of people said the same thing for the DS, the potential was there it just wasn't going to be fully tapped thus justifiying what the Nintendo DS could do. But as fate would have it this wasnt the case, the system and developers both pumped out the gameplay opportunities and innovations yet to be used in gaming.

This isnt about DS success though, it all comes back to the same ideal that if the system has games people like, it will be a success dont you agree? And a reason it may or maynot be a success will depend on the implimenation of the Wii-mote and the ideas developers will come up with. At this point no one can say whether which style of gameplay is best. But from an objective point of view, the Wii has something about it that just want's to be picked up and played, and seen as something that the competition just can't offer. That's my take at least... woah sorry for the huge rant haha.

[OmniCloud]

Absolutely man I agree that games like Lair and Ninja Gaiden are things that PS3 will make shine, but this is only because of what Sony is packing under the hood of the PS3. A downgraded graphic's and level of details (ala Xbox quality) can 100% be done with the Wii. Your point grabs me as one that this is based on graphical differences which there can be no doubt of the limitations Wii possesss.

But what I dont understand is how you can surmise that some people will either love it or hate it? It's not so simple to conclude something like that at this point. A lot of people said the same thing for the DS, the potential was there it just wasn't going to be fully tapped thus justifiying what the Nintendo DS could do. But as fate would have it this wasnt the case, the system and developers both pumped out the gameplay opportunities and innovations yet to be used in gaming.

This isnt about DS success though, it all comes back to the same ideal that if the system has games people like, it will be a success dont you agree? And a reason it may or maynot be a success will depend on the implimenation of the Wii-mote and the ideas developers will come up with. At this point no one can say whether which style of gameplay is best. But from an objective point of view, the Wii has something about it that just want's to be picked up and played, and seen as something that the competition just can't offer. That's my take at least... woah sorry for the huge rant haha.NO NO don't apologize-that's EXACTLY what these types of threads are for:thumbsup:!! I agree-as much as I love Sony..It looks like I'll be going home playing a PS3 and sometimes a Wii-and when I'm leaving, I'll be grabbing my MP3 and DS. It's really ashame about PSP-the games are slowly coming together-but the price-for hardware and software-which is EXTREMELY important in the portable market, is just not competitive at all. I hope they get there act together cuz PSP has a lot of potential in certain genres. I think Nintendo will probably do the most special games with the Wii-while everyone will probably have a go at PS3 (which a lot will probably suck at) I think one thing we can both agree on Wholeheartedly tho-this is a GREAT time to be a gamer!!+rep to u my friend...

[Old_Timer!]

I still don't wanna play with a Wii or Mii's, Gimme my PS3 damn it.....
PS3/PsP compatability is gonna be off da Hook.

[Shadow Voa]

Very true Omnicloud and I agree with your point about being a gamer. There is no doubt in my mind that whether it be by the PS3 or Wii means of gaming, whoever comes into any form of contact with these respective machines will have no idea of the amount of fun times that are in store for them, and of the many more ideas lying in wait and development which are still on the horizon. This generation will play host to systems of unparalleled gaming experiences, media opportunities, entertainment possibilities, and many other new multiforms of our ever changing gaming habbits and lifestyles. Cheers to you my friend!

[OmniCloud]

LOL..I just realized we left the 360 out:-(...why M$? why did u rush into the gaming market??

[Old_Timer!]

MS thought the 1 year headstart=10 mil units was a guarantee to win next gen, when they should've released a true next gen product....

[GTShotoKen]

LOL..I just realized we left the 360 out:-(...why M$? why did u rush into the gaming market??

They played monopoly entirely too much...

[Z]

The idea one swings his baseball bat, swings his racket to connect with an on coming tennis ball. These are just examples of games that can be played on PS3 and 360 by simply moving the joystick and pressing a button that will rally or hit the ball back. Granted, the PS3 could impilment the tilt in ways that make you feel like your in the games, but no way on the level that the Wii is aiming for.
why can't you let go of one hand and swing the pad like a bat? does the 'input' device have to be hsaped like a bat or a sword for you to 'feel' it?

speaking of swords, remember that Onimusha sword controller? it was wireless and you swing the sword around to hit the enemies! that was great. I never tried it, but samn I wanted to play with a katana.
now imagine you are holding a lolipop and pretending it is a sword in a game.... I think I'll pass. like Eyetoy, it may be 'fun' for pary games and what not, but I cannot get serious with something like that.
*imagines playing Splinter Cell with a wand...ugh*

[Z]

Well the fact that the ps3 controller doesnt work in 3d space or as a pointer device kind of hinders it from doing everything the wii can do.
sorry, I am trying to understand what your saying. I am genuinely asking here. so why wouldn't the PS3 pad work like a pointer? because it isn't 'pointy'? imagine you had a ball that shoots out a lazer beam. couldn't you point with it? it doesn't have to be something long.

as for 3D space, you may say that because there is a reciever you put on your TV when playing Rev that 'detects' where the wand is- presumably. yet still, does that criple the control mechnasim? allow me to give an example of a game:
you have a big empty sphere. there is a small floating ball at the center of that sphere. you can move that ball anywhere in real-time. whther you used a wand, PS3's pad, you could still move the ball freely. you see, PS3's pad doesn't only detect motion, it also detects speed. so you can move the ball faster or slow it down just like you can with the wand.

so what can't you do with the pad that you can with a wand exactly?

[OmniCloud]

^Good points there Z. I agree that the experiences are pretty close as u would imagine. But just check out the Mario Galaxy/Red Steel gameplay footage. It's not that the pad can't point, but that the Wii controller is actually a pointer. Playing Red Stell u aim with one hand and control with the other. On PS3 you would have to implement all that into one device. The slashing/blocking aspect of Red Steel could be done on PS3-and probably more enjoyable-but I don't think too many games will have you pointing ur controller like the Wii's. Same with Mario Galaxy. Many of the actions are done by pointing at icons on the screen while moving mario around with the analog attachment. A game like this on PS3 wouldn't feel right-they would have to switch the controls around for it to work. Maybe move Mario around with the analogs and them have him jump/dive/stomp using the tilt. Again, I think the experiences will be pretty even imo...I'm glad that 2 systems of the three are really Innovating gameplay-I think we're in for some amazing games this gen.

[Generosity of God]

the Sixaxis can really only be compared to the same functions on the Wii remote when it is in the similar position as the Sixaxis would be. actually if the nunchuk were capable of transmitting data by itself, the Sixaxis could be comparable to it also.

anyway what ever motion sensing Sixaxis can do, both the Wii remote and nunchuk can do the same. the only advantage Sixaxis has in this position is that it has more buttons and analog sticks.

however, the Wii Remote's free hand design allows it to have a wider range of use than the Sixaxis. with the nunchuk setup, it allows for two motions to be done at the same time. in general it allows for a large range of gestures that traditional pads like Sixaxis cant give.

now everyone saying that any game that requires swinging (of anything from a bat to a sword) would be better when using the sixaxis, are kidding themselves.

everyon saying that any game that requires pointing would be better when using the sixaxis, are again kidding themselves.

the Wii remote and nunchuk setup allows for a more realistic and more natural way to do those actions. i would also say that if you were to do the same motions with the sixaxis, you would tire much quicker as you would have to move both arms instead of just one.

(i know what the reactions will be to that: "but the developer can just design it so that you really only need to move your wrists" says the same people who previously said that the Wii remote will tire people out. guess what that's what is happening with Wii games too. cant use that arguement anymore people)

moving on.

ok lets say there is a game like Guitar Hero but instead of a guitar you play the drums. now Sixaxis couldnt have the same realistic feel of drumming that the Wii remote would give. you would feel more awkward using two Sixaxis than you would with two Wii Remotes or Wii Remote + Nunchuk.

Wii remote can do the same things that Sixaxis can do. but if there is a game that can benefit from your hands being independant of one another, then the Wii is the only system this gen that is capable (unless sony wants to steal the nunchuk idea and make one that plugs into the top of Sixaxis). boxing, fishing, swinging a bat or melee weapon, bouncing or throwing a ball or grenade, and aiming a weapon are much more realistic and natural with the Wii Remote.

having said all that however, i think that the Sixaxis control is a nice addition to traditional gaming. it is innovative but it falls short of the amount of innovation capable with the Wii remote setup.

now. about the sensor bar. the Wii could have been made without it, but the depth calculations and pointer functions would not work with the same speed and accuracy as they do now. there would likely be alot of lag and less precision when aiming.

the pointer function would have to be calculated the same way as needed with the Sixaxis. it is possible but not as accurate and alot more complicated to develop.

i think in the end, its really all up to the developers. most of the time Sixaxis is going to be used for driving, flying and well tilting in general. its really only the more creative developers that can do something better with it. but those same creative developers would have a wider range of possibilities if they were thinking for the Wii Remote.

Sixaxis is good but Wii Remote is more innovative by far.

[Sephiroth_VII]

You do know that you're not forced to use both hands on the sixaxis,right? Just watch this footage (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/6556). The LAIR developer is playing the game with one hand, while talking to the journalist.

[Z]

thanks Omni, I see your point; since you have two devices, each in one hand, you can get new kinds of hand-movements that will let you play a game differently.

but that is what you feel using a certain input device. as for the technical execution of the actul input itself, I think the difference, if any, can be negligible.

also, I re-iterate what I've said the first time I saw the ambilical-cord attachment: the remote should have been seperated rom any other add-on. plugging a device with a 2 foot cable to it hinders the whole point of 'free movement' and 'natural' or being 'comfortable' to a digree. to see what I mean, imagine both the analogue knob and the remote being both completely wireless.
like that was so hard to do from the start...
now everyone saying that any game that requires swinging (of anything from a bat to a sword) would be better when using the sixaxis, are kidding themselves.

everyon saying that any game that requires pointing would be better when using the sixaxis, are again kidding themselves.
saying people are idiots if they disagree, or they are stupid if they don't see it or the likes does not make a convincing argument or explanation. in those sentences, you are talking about the pure technical ability for both devices. I don't think you nor I have enough experience or knowledge to give a decisive conculsion especially when we are talkng about something so general as game input situations.

if you are talking about the 'natural feel' of the experience inputting the commands, then that is a differnet topic. for me, more 'natural' in playing games is the normal game pad- and the Dual Shock design in specific. if you are talking about real-life normalities, then I don't think I can feel 'natural' when playing a 'game' if you gave me a real life baseball bat to play a real baseball game sitting down on my coutch. or giving me a real tennis racket to play a tennis game on TV. there is a diffenrece between real life experiences and virtual ones. that is why the input methods and familiarity are drastically differnet between the two.
the only way you can 'fuse' them for me would be litterally doing it Matrix style.

[Applefiend]

Ahhh, think of the possibilities of one handed control, no wonder Itagaki is behind PS3... :)

[Z]

You do know that you're not forced to use both hands on the sixaxis,right? Just watch this footage (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/6556). The LAIR developer is playing the game with one hand, while talking to the journalist.
yeah, that too. of course one might say that certain games are action-packed that you cannot afford to remove a hand from the controller. that is true. and I was talking about sport and other kind of games where you could 'move' the controller without the need of a second hand pushing other buttons.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Well, the only games where you'd need both hands are games that require using L1, L2 & L3. The directional buttons and left analog stick are pretty much useless, except for RPG's, settings, and stuff like that.

[Nameless]

I was initially a non-believer of the motion sensor controller for the PS3. I thought it was just a gimmick... The developers have already made me a believer (MGS4 rumors,NBA 2K7 free throws, Lair battle system & Motorstorm) and we are in the early stages of implementation. If done correctly the motion sensors could add to the gameplay immersion without becoming a destraction from the experience, that's my primary concern with the Wii wand. If Sony can eventually offer a rumble motion pad, I would have no complaints... Peace

[OmniCloud]

I think Z might've took all the thunder with his above post, but just to reiterate towards Generosity's comment-the whole "Natural" feel is definitely up to the consumers. I would think that a "Natural" feel would be more towards a traditional game pad too. THe Wii Can indeed have a wider range of movements-but aren't the lack of buttons really a NEED for the controller to have that many movements? With one analog, how do u control the camera?? The Wii controller HAS to have more movements because it's 2 devices that make up for buttons with movement. Also-I don't know how much control your gonna feel with the Wii remote as far as racing games go. or flight for that matter. Turning the wii-mote side ways is hardly a PS3 six axis controller. Simply put-i think if u look at the pros and cons-they pretty much balance each other out-with the Wii exceeding in certain genres and vice versa. Little things like shooting free throws in NBA2k7 and swinging bats and swords are just the tip of the iceberg for these systems...

If Sony somehow gets rumble back in-I think we'll just be spoiled. I've pretty much gotten used to no rumble already in most genres. I just think FPS and Racing titles are gonna hurt the most.

[Z]

I was initially a non-believer of the motion sensor controller for the PS3. I thought it was just a gimmick... The developers have already made me a believer (MGS4 rumors,NBA 2K7 free throws, Lair battle system & Motorstorm) and we are in the early stages of implementation.
I think that applies to most people. this is the same with Rev's remote, DS's touch pad, Eyetoy, Guitar Hero's Guitar controller, dancing mats, etc.
it is quite normal to have doubt when introducing new concepts. and as with the DS, I say we need at least a year till we see devs making clever and neat uses with these new input devices. even Ninty couldn't start the touch concept very convincingly. but look at DS games now.

let's see next year when games are doing all the talking. ;)

[Old_Timer!]

I think for the free throw implementation of NBA 2K7 it would be great it the give you POV camera system. As is you're not truly immersed in the free throw shots, maybe they did try this already and found that it wasn't feasable.
But I think just as the boxing game uses that new POV system, to give more of a immersive feel. This too would work for the free throw system.

[Killing Moon]

Well to be honest, I think people are giving Nintendo way too much credit for doing very little. Seriously, in order to be considered as “innovative”, you’d actually HAVE to create something different. Something that hasn’t been done before. Now pardon me, but from these roster of titles that they hold for the Wii, I see the same shit as on every other console. Only now, I’d look like an ass by waving my arm around to play the very same games.

Now I don’t know about you, but that’s not innovative to me. Had this been a secondary feature that coincides with REAL innovative gameplay designs (which is up to the developer, not the hardware), then I’d be all for it. But this is the primary “make or break” feature for the console. Quite frankly, that’s not gonna fly too well once the initial novelty phase wears off. You’ll be playing the very same games on there as you will on the PS3. Except for the fact that they’ll look like shit in comparison. Much like the DS compared to the PSP (though the PSP has it’s OWN share of weaknesses in that respect).

If they want to innovate, how about trying to create some unique and or evolutionary game designs. And quit depending on quick fix gimmicks to solve their fiscal year woes, while continuously regurgitating the same bullshit every few years.

Nintendo needs actual GAME DESIGNS from good designers who can think out of the box, while be evolutionary at the same time. Not “franchises” that are the entire brain child from over the hill morons who have little, to no connection with their respective audiences.

When the Wiimote does something “innovative”, then let me know. Until then, my swinging a sword in game via a remote is not “something new”. It’s predictable, considering the technology. And most of all, it’s easily forgettable once the novelty wears off.

[yoshaw]

Logitech's PS3 controller ladies n gentlemen.

Doesn't mention any rumble features but costs $40 with a cooling function. It makes me wonder whether the Sony controller be cheaper than that or not, eh?

http://xs107.xs.to/xs107/06404/logichill.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs107&d=06404&f=logichill.jpg)

Logitech presents “Logitech Chillstream CONTROLLER” 05.10.06 - Logitech presented the “Logitech Chillstream CONTROLLER” for the PS3. The PAD possesses an inserted, patented cooling system, so that the user cool and dry hands with play have. The CONTROLLER is offered to silver in the colors black and, the price is appropriate with USD 39.99 (euro 31/Yen 4,706). Release: 17.11.06 (the USA)

[OmniCloud]

What the heck is the cooling system for Yoshaw? Looks comfortable-but It doesn't have motion sensing or rumble:huh: I think PS3's controller are $40 as well-so that's no real advantage there.

[Z]

no motion sensing, no wireless= no interest.

come on logie, hit me! I am sure as hell waitin' for ya.

[The Dude]

No, they are not even in the same ball park. The Wii is in a league of its own, says I

[GTShotoKen]

I think the whole PS3 controller situation with it being used with one hand is a bit...overstated.

The PS3 controller is not a controller that is meant to be held with one hand. Yes it's possible, but practicality rules out possiblity in this case.

I will be playing Lair with two hands. Good luck to the rest of you guys. :lol:

I don't try to make a big fuss about the PS3 and Wii controller. The Wii controller was built from the ground up for motion and gestures forcing new types of gameplay, while the PS3's motions sensing capabilities are used as an accent to its titles. It's there to enhance existing gameplay mechanics, not redefine them.

There is no reason to say one is better than the other, or one is equal to another since these technologies are present for different reasons.

I do agree with the dude in saying that the Wii controller is in a league of its own, but this definitely doesn't mean that it's better than the PS3 controller in any way, shape, or form.

Changing a controller won't make games any better, it'll just change how you experience them. The Zelda on Wii is the same Zelda on gamecube, they just play differently.

[Applefiend]

I can see things you can do with a sixaxis you can't do with a Wii mote.

Tank or Mech game. Each analogue stick controlls each track, like BattleZone or Steel Battalion or whatever. turning the turret and your view is on the tilt. X to fire. Try doing that with a Wiimote.

Olympics game. Each analogue stick is a leg, you use them to run, tilt looks around.

[Viper]

Apple, the Wii-mote for right treads and the Nun-chuck for left treads. Analog stick for camera. Same principle for the Olympic running (which is already being done in many Wii titles).

The fact the Wii input system has up to two seperate accelerometers and 3D space recognition is what truly makes it stand above the SIXAXIS.

I don't recall who stated it above but you cannot do Red Steel on PS3. The sword fighting can use two simultaneous swords and the sword motions are perfectly done in a 1:1 ratio meaning the system knows the exact 3D space of the swords and follows the path you move in as well as depth of swing.

[Applefiend]

<*thinks*>

Doesn't work for me. You could use both the nanchuck and Wiimote for sticks for the tank treads, but analogue to look around? Doesn't feel natural to me. sixaxis does this better.

[Viper]

Ok, try this. Analog stick - right tread. Nun-chuck - left tread. Wii-mote - full camera and targeting system.

[venomv]

I don't recall who stated it above but you cannot do Red Steel on PS3. The sword fighting can use two simultaneous swords and the sword motions are perfectly done in a 1:1 ratio meaning the system knows the exact 3D space of the swords and follows the path you move in as well as depth of swing.


I said a similar game, only one sword, but it wouldn't take anything to start in the middle of the screen and go from there.

Ok, try this. Analog stick - right tread. Nun-chuck - left tread. Wii-mote - full camera and targeting system.


Lol, that would be akward....would be better the first way you said it.

[VG Aficionado]

Apple, the Wii-mote for right treads and the Nun-chuck for left treads. Analog stick for camera. Same principle for the Olympic running (which is already being done in many Wii titles).And for how long could most people swing both arms???

The fact the Wii input system has up to two seperate accelerometers and 3D space recognition is what truly makes it stand above the SIXAXIS.And tougher to master. I don't see how could that be simpler to use than a couple of buttons or sticks, which I think is one of the purposes of Wii's controllers. It may be somehow intuitive in this case, but not easy.

I don't recall who stated it above but you cannot do Red Steel on PS3. The sword fighting can use two simultaneous swords and the sword motions are perfectly done in a 1:1 ratio meaning the system knows the exact 3D space of the swords and follows the path you move in as well as depth of swing.Things must have really changed since E3, because it wasn't like that at all back then.

[Viper]

VG.

The 'swing your arms' thing isn't working. Small, basic hand movements are all that's needed. To move forward, move both hands up an inch.

Moving a thumb in intricate coordination is tougher than moving your whole hand which is already highly skilled.

Yes, Red Steel has changed alot since E3. Plus it was plagued back then by a poorly placed sensor bar.

[VG Aficionado]

Moving a thumb in intricate coordination is tougher than moving your whole hand which is already highly skilled.This has to be the first time I hear most people are highly skilled at moving two limbs independently and coordinately!

Yes, Red Steel has changed alot since E3. Plus it was plagued back then by a poorly placed sensor bar.Huh? I remember you told me in a previous discussion that the sensor bar was only required for the pointer, so how could that possibly be the reason why RS wasn't very accurate when using a katana (I assume a katana is a 3D object that moves freely in 3D space, since you cannot point at a surface to simulate to be using a sword)? Besides, I'll have to see the latest build of RS to believe it really works that good, because I really don't believe the control is any good when people are using two invisible katanas to cut the air (mostly because the collision detection and clipping issues would be such a mess during gameplay).

[Viper]

This has to be the first time I hear most people are highly skilled at moving two limbs independently and coordinately!

Huh? I remember you told me in a previous discussion that the sensor bar was only required for the pointer, so how could that possibly be the reason why RS wasn't very accurate when using a katana? Besides, I'll have to see the latest build of RS to believe it really works that good, because I really don't believe the control is any good when people are using two invisible katanas to cut the air (mostly because the collision detection and clipping issues would be such a mess during gameplay).
Moving one hand up and inch and one hand back an inch is difficult?

I stated they fixed two things. The sensor bar issue was one of them. The other was the entire control system. Motion is more fine tuned, sword swing in a 1:1 ratio instead of a set path and hit detection is far better. Go check it out.

[Z]

No, they are not even in the same ball park. The Wii is in a league of its own, says I
yeah, and Six Axis is in another league right beside it.

PS. anyone else confuses the dude with Dude :?

[VG Aficionado]

Moving one hand up and inch and one hand back an inch is difficult?I did the test. "Tiring" is the best word I can find. Besides, my point is that I wouldn't rely on people's ability to move their limbs constantly as the main input for most games and on the accuracy of the controllers themselves. Sure it shouldn't be difficult. It shouldn't.

I stated they fixed two things. The sensor bar issue was one of them. The other was the entire control system. Motion is more fine tuned, sword swing in a 1:1 ratio instead of a set path and hit detection is far better. Go check it out.I've checked the latest video on IGN featuring katana gameplay (http://wiimovies.ign.com/wii/video/article/728/728371/redsteel2gc_qtlowwide.mov). Honestly, there's no way I can call the motions "perfectly done in a 1:1 ratio", not even close to that. Observe how the right hand katana moves exactly the same way every time he slashes his enemy. Same goes for blocks and other moves, which are all canned animations triggered by specific real moves that may be more or less accurate, but are not represented as such (hence I said before such thing would be a total mess during gameplay). If you were trying to say that katanas' motions match 100% with the Wiimote and nunchuck's motions, you should put your feet on the ground now. Actually, when I saw the first Wiimote promo video at TGS 2005 it made me expect 100% accurate 3D motion, but I was sent back to the real world quickly as soon as I watched some gameplay from E3. And it made sense, because totally accurate movements are simply not reasonable given the circumstances.

Still, I don't rule Wii out yet as a purchase sometime next year when I see some games that appeal to me more than the ones I've seen so far. However, I would never think the Wiimote is the ultimate controller.

[frosty]

Yeah, the wiimote sword swings still don't appear to be 1:1. Also, for FPS, it isn't the best for targeting. I always thought this would be it's strongest point, but you have to move the pointer to the side of the screen, and wait while it slowly scrolls over to where you want it. This could be done better, and I will wait and see if it is before passing a final judgement.

[vdo]

The below is from a blog about the Gamestop/EB conference.


I asked the Ubisoft guy demoing the game what the plan was for swordfighting, a topic of some confusion among gamers lately. The issue is whether, when you swing the Wiimote, the swords on the screen will mimic your moves exactly, or whether the on-screen action is predetermined, i.e., regardless of how you swing the Wiimote, the swords will strike in a set pattern. Basically, he said that the swords will mimic somewhat your swing, but probably won't be 100 percent precise. In other words, slash diagonally with your Wiimote, and your character on screen will slash diagonally. But the system probably won't detect whether you're swinging at a 53 degree angle, and mimic that angle perfectly, for example. Good enough.

punchbutton.beloblog.com/archives/2006/10/gamestop_sales.html

Now if you look at this older article:

pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0608/kaigai186.htm

a translated version has Kutaragi saying this about the PS3:

I think developers have an undestanding of it. At E3 demo, they tried to do it in real time on the spot rather than prerendering and precalculation. At E3, many demos do various calulations in the background. Also in graphics, how it moves is all done by calculations. Things that couldn't be calculated without huge time until now, they can be done on Cell (in realtime). They'll try to create games that take advantage of it.

So it is not just about the accuracy of the controller, but how well the controllers actions can be translated on screen. So the Wiimote could be accurate but use prerendered animations, whereas the PS3 might be able to calculate position, movement and the resulting physics in real time. Whether or not this is the case (i.e. will Wiimote use prerendered or will PS3 actually do real time calculations), I don't know. But the point is that there is some importance to how well the accuracy of the controller is processed by the system.

[OmniCloud]

Apple, the Wii-mote for right treads and the Nun-chuck for left treads. Analog stick for camera. Same principle for the Olympic running (which is already being done in many Wii titles).

The fact the Wii input system has up to two seperate accelerometers and 3D space recognition is what truly makes it stand above the SIXAXIS.

I don't recall who stated it above but you cannot do Red Steel on PS3. The sword fighting can use two simultaneous swords and the sword motions are perfectly done in a 1:1 ratio meaning the system knows the exact 3D space of the swords and follows the path you move in as well as depth of swing.Viper I was simply talking about slashing/blocking aspect of Red Steel-that would be very easilty replicated on Sixaxis no? Overall I agree with Applefiend in his previous post up there. I've never stated that the PS3 remote is better-I actually think that Wii will innovate more genres with it's new controller. Overall tho-when looking at it system-to-system, I think these controllers makes PS3 and Wii both offer compelling, new gameplay features, and will have their share of exclusive games that can only be experienced on each one respectively.

[Viper]

The TGS demo was the same as the E3 demo. That's why the swings in the video didn't change. Why the rep said what he did, I don't know but Ubisoft has confirmed a 100% 1:1 swing at GC in Germany.

Vdo, do you think KK is going to admit the Wii could render 1:1 motion in real time?

Frosty, I don't know if anyone will implement this idea but I to get a screen centered reticle like the common FPS, a simple button hold would lock the reticle and any motion then would move the screen like normal. Release the button and you go back to free targeting. I believe Ubisoft is working on something liek it for Far Cry: Vengeance.

Omni, I fully agree (except for the sword/block thing. I don't see how SIXAXIS with only one accelerometer can replicate it). Motion sensing is the new analog stick. In 96, Nintendo changed the way games were played with the analog stick and now motion sensing will do it again. Don't be surprised to see MS make a motion sensing version of their controller in the near future.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Yeah MS is always playing 'me too'. In about every division of their company, not just games (where it's painfully obvious because they aren't the market leader). They've already got a 200 dollar hd-dvd add on coming out (400=+200=?), are hyping 1080"p" upgrades, and the list probably won't end there. Why wouldn't they just put out a gyroscoping controller, hell, ms made the sidewinder 10 years ago for pc, they could easily do it now. The problem is it puts out a bad message when you keep reiterating what the hell you want your product to be.[/2cents]

[frosty]

Let's not forget about Prime Sense and their technology. If it's all they claim it to be, it would put the wiimote to shame, as it does everything it can do and more. As long as you used a simple infared sensor with a device (like a ring worn on the finger, for example) and coupled that with the image data from eyetoy 2, a good 3D representation of the player and device can be made, as well as things like augmented reality. Then there would be no need for any nunchuck, as you could swing around anything and use it like a sword. I've seen Cell do similar mocap stuff without the sensor, so I imagine it can work very well with it. We will have to wait and see.

[Viper]

Frosty, Sony claimed adding rumble was expensive enough. This sounds like it would cost much, much more.

The Cell is powerful and could pull off some damn sweet tricks but if the accompanying tech is too costly, it's not worth it. You know how add-ons typically fail and an expensive one doesn't help the situation any.

[Viano]

isn't this thread about innovations.. loL

[Z]

yeah. notice that it is when ever Ninty fans come into a discussion and turn it to "Ninty original vs everyone else copy cat" discussions.

we started off on topic.

[Shadow Voa]

^ For future references just don't include the Wii in any topics in the PS3 section. Fans of Nintendo's system will take note of the thread in the Sony section. It's just common sense unless you want discussions like this Z. Do not make threads comparing Wii and PS3, its that simple.

[Z]

let me clear that out just in case:

Pleas, to all Ninty fans, read the topic (not just the last post) and see what are we talking about, then take part in the discussion.
for example, look at how this thread started. and it went on beautifully and on the point till a page or two back. I don't have to re-explain the topic, but we are talking about the advantages and limitations of the Sixaxis and whther it can perform the same Remote functions as well. nobody is attacking your beloved Ninty. we honestly don't care about attacking anyone. you can understand that if your system of choice is the undisputed leader. that is why most of the discussions here are specifically about PS3 and its offerings.

^ For future references just don't include the Wii in any topics in the PS3 section. Fans of Nintendo's system will take note of the thread in the Sony section. It's just common sense unless you want discussions like this Z. Do not make threads comparing Wii and PS3, its that simple.
I agree on not making a clear 'showdown' thread since it will be pointless as personal preferences differ. and I also do not see the point of any console member getting all personal and defensive over stupid topics. we aren't talking about world politics here, just consoles. sheesh.

and I don't see the problem seeing the similarities or possibilities concerning other consoles as we are talking about technology implementation. it could have been and it sometimes is anyother situation. we talked about such possiblities with other non-gaming focused applications before. and we are always talking about anything new we find that could be used in gaming.

[Domination]

Yeah MS is always playing 'me too'. In about every division of their company, not just games (where it's painfully obvious because they aren't the market leader). They've already got a 200 dollar hd-dvd add on coming out (400=+200=?), are hyping 1080"p" upgrades, and the list probably won't end there. Why wouldn't they just put out a gyroscoping controller, hell, ms made the sidewinder 10 years ago for pc, they could easily do it now. The problem is it puts out a bad message when you keep reiterating what the hell you want your product to be.[/2cents]

Already anticipated this. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if Microsoft didn't go mentioning how useless these things are just to do them later on. It sorta makes me wonder if the console has a future outside of competitive moment. I hope to God I'm wrong in this case, but so far, their reaction has given off the impression more than enough times.

Right now, they have two (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=147127) controllers in the making. :eek2:

You forgot backwards compatibility, BTW.

[OmniCloud]

let me clear that out just in case:

Pleas, to all Ninty fans, read the topic (not just the last post) and see what are we talking about, then take part in the discussion.
for example, look at how this thread started. and it went on beautifully and on the point till a page or two back. I don't have to re-explain the topic, but we are talking about the advantages and limitations of the Sixaxis and whther it can perform the same Remote functions as well. nobody is attacking your beloved Ninty. we honestly don't care about attacking anyone. you can understand that if your system of choice is the undisputed leader. that is why most of the discussions here are specifically about PS3 and its offerings.


I agree on not making a clear 'showdown' thread since it will be pointless as personal preferences differ. and I also do not see the point of any console member getting all personal and defensive over stupid topics. we aren't talking about world politics here, just consoles. sheesh.

and I don't see the problem seeing the similarities or possibilities concerning other consoles as we are talking about technology implementation. it could have been and it sometimes is anyother situation. we talked about such possiblities with other non-gaming focused applications before. and we are always talking about anything new we find that could be used in gaming.LOL...kinda late Z but I just read this...+rep for clearing the smog and getting it back to the original discussion. I just watched some more of Mario Galaxy and I have to say I'm still as impressed as ever. Many of the games that Wii is showing seems to be a compilation of mini games-which is fun for like a week. (that's what happened to me with the DS anyway) But Mario is a different story. You control him just like the old games with the analog. Then the star on the screen that is the indicator of your wii-pointer does all the context-sensitive actions. It is really unique-and these are the games that's going to make you go and buy a Wii as a hardcore gaming platform and not just something you take out at the home parties.

Another observation more in favor of Sony is the EyeToy. With the idea of how you "control" a game being just as important as how it looks and plays-I think we may finally see Eyetoy being intergrated into games this gen. The combination of EyeToy+SixAxis opens a lot of doors. Yes, it is an add-on, but EyeToy is already an established add-on and I think it's the best sellling peripheral for consoles at the moment. (I might be mistaken so research for urself) Can u imagine playing a FPS like Resistance-crouching down behind cover by simply pointing the controller down and then gesturing your hand to throw a grenade??! It is possible now to do these things on the PS3-I won't speculate further because for now-we just know EyeToy2 is coming and nothing more. Just two points I find interesting on the whole controller thing. Right now I see Wii's games being the most fun in Adventure, Puzzle/Mini-game genres, and FPS. With PS3-I like Racing, Action, and also FPS-not because of control tho-but the Wii will be limited in this genre becaue of the hardware. The other genres (sports, RPG's ect...) will probably balance out between Wii's controller and PS3's graphics.

[EvilTaru]

LOL...kinda late Z but I just read this...+rep for clearing the smog and getting it back to the original discussion. I just watched some more of Mario Galaxy and I have to say I'm still as impressed as ever. Many of the games that Wii is showing seems to be a compilation of mini games-which is fun for like a week. (that's what happened to me with the DS anyway) But Mario is a different story. You control him just like the old games with the analog. Then the star on the screen that is the indicator of your wii-pointer does all the context-sensitive actions. It is really unique-and these are the games that's going to make you go and buy a Wii as a hardcore gaming platform and not just something you take out at the home parties.

Another observation more in favor of Sony is the EyeToy. With the idea of how you "control" a game being just as important as how it looks and plays-I think we may finally see Eyetoy being intergrated into games this gen. The combination of EyeToy+SixAxis opens a lot of doors. Yes, it is an add-on, but EyeToy is already an established add-on and I think it's the best sellling peripheral for consoles at the moment. (I might be mistaken so research for urself) Can u imagine playing a FPS like Resistance-crouching down behind cover by simply pointing the controller down and then gesturing your hand to throw a grenade??! It is possible now to do these things on the PS3-I won't speculate further because for now-we just know EyeToy2 is coming and nothing more. Just two points I find interesting on the whole controller thing. Right now I see Wii's games being the most fun in Adventure, Puzzle/Mini-game genres, and FPS. With PS3-I like Racing, Action, and also FPS-not because of control tho-but the Wii will be limited in this genre becaue of the hardware. The other genres (sports, RPG's ect...) will probably balance out between Wii's controller and PS3's graphics.

I can imagine doing that repeatedly in a FPS and feeling like I need to punch someone in the face.

I don't mind simple gestures like how Julian Eggebrecht demonstrated the controls in Lair with one hand but for a game like Resistance, I do NOT want to go through all that motion just to throw a smurfing grenade. Why would the sixaxis work for a game like Lair or a game like Warhawk? Or maybe even Motorstorm? Because the motion is ultimately quite small, you're not flopping around like a fish out of water.

If it's one of those stupid party games using the EyeToy, it's not a big deal, but things like that aren't meant to be played for an extended period of time, they're meant to be dumb and embarrassing, that's where the fun comes from, not true when it comes to FPS or action games.

I really don't like the idea of having to pretend I'm swinging a sword in an action game when all it takes to execute a combo is by pressing a few buttons, because I'm going to be doing that ALOT. Don't get me wrong, I like the intuitiveness of the motion-sensing tech, but I hope developers don't overdo it with the big motions, keep that to the party games, PLEASE. Factor 5, Incog and Game Republic are showing the right way of making use of the motion sensing tech. For the record I don't like to pretend I'm holding a gun in a FPS, they've tried it with the Guncon 2, it didn't work very well, it's freakin' tiring after the novelty wears off, and right now we're sort of in a novelty phase when it comes to this motion-sensing technology, but when the novelty wears off in a few months, the sensible, meaningful uses of the technology are the ones that will stand apart from the pure novelty ones.

[frosty]

That's the thing, alternate control options could be available for any title, so you could play it as you see fit. I personally would love that in a FPS, as I don't throw a grenade 10 times a minute, so it would be just pure laziness to not want to make a simple arm gesture to toss one out. Especially if the angle and speed of the throw could be determined by your arm motions.

[OmniCloud]

I can imagine doing that repeatedly in a FPS and feeling like I need to punch someone in the face.

I don't mind simple gestures like how Julian Eggebrecht demonstrated the controls in Lair with one hand but for a game like Resistance, I do NOT want to go through all that motion just to throw a smurfing grenade. Why would the sixaxis work for a game like Lair or a game like Warhawk? Or maybe even Motorstorm? Because the motion is ultimately quite small, you're not flopping around like a fish out of water.

If it's one of those stupid party games using the EyeToy, it's not a big deal, but things like that aren't meant to be played for an extended period of time, they're meant to be dumb and embarrassing, that's where the fun comes from, not true when it comes to FPS or action games.

I really don't like the idea of having to pretend I'm swinging a sword in an action game when all it takes to execute a combo is by pressing a few buttons, because I'm going to be doing that ALOT. Don't get me wrong, I like the intuitiveness of the motion-sensing tech, but I hope developers don't overdo it with the big motions, keep that to the party games, PLEASE. Factor 5, Incog and Game Republic are showing the right way of making use of the motion sensing tech. For the record I don't like to pretend I'm holding a gun in a FPS, they've tried it with the Guncon 2, it didn't work very well, it's freakin' tiring after the novelty wears off, and right now we're sort of in a novelty phase when it comes to this motion-sensing technology, but when the novelty wears off in a few months, the sensible, meaningful uses of the technology are the ones that will stand apart from the pure novelty ones.U gotta give a chance Man!!! lol...on the sword thing-u don't have to use big gestures to swing-it can be really a flick of the wrist. Just read up on Zelda-I don't think u will get tired...Now playing Wario Ware for the Wii-that's a game not meant to be played for hours and hours. In multiplayer the grenade thing wouldn't work-but I u know you'll be throwing you arms all over ur shoulders if they put it in a good FPS...

[EvilTaru]

U gotta give a chance Man!!! lol...on the sword thing-u don't have to use big gestures to swing-it can be really a flick of the wrist. Just read up on Zelda-I don't think u will get tired...Now playing Wario Ware for the Wii-that's a game not meant to be played for hours and hours. In multiplayer the grenade thing wouldn't work-but I u know you'll be throwing you arms all over ur shoulders if they put it in a good FPS...

You mean where waggling the wand is essentially the same as button presses (not one-to-one, not always in the same direction as pointer movement, with vertical swings sometimes triggering horizontal swipes)? It doesn't seem more intuitive, it's more along the line of a forced control scheme in order to "make use" of the wand.

As for the grenade thing, I would go for it if said mechanic allow for much better control in terms of accuracy and distance, and results are CONSISTENTLY reproducible, if it's just for the sake of "feeling like you're throwing a grenade", I'm not sure if that's something I would want in a game, because that novelty will wear off. The motion sensor allows for more precise and intuitive control in both Lair and Warhawk, it's important that implementation of a feature does not end up being just a gimmick. There are party games and non-games that work well with the novelty factor but shooters and certain action games aren't really something that do, controls have to be efficient.

[OmniCloud]

I agree....a few surprises might come out sooner or later tho..

[TheGreenElf]

Tilt sensing isn't new...

[frosty]

Tilt + Accelerometer is.

[ddaryl]

yeah. notice that it is when ever Ninty fans come into a discussion and turn it to "Ninty original vs everyone else copy cat" discussions.

we started off on topic.

I always laugh at Nitnendo fans for this mind set.

You never see Ninty fans giving props to Sony for their contributions to console gaming. It's pretty laughable, everything has always been done by Nintendo 1st.

[Khaos]

Don't confuse fact with fanboy lies. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it less true.

[VG Aficionado]

:huh: