Epic Games VP Mark Rein Tries To Ridicule PS3 At London GDC

[archy121]

October 3, 2006

GDC London: Epic's Rein - 'Next-Gen Starts When I Say So'

GDC London: Epic's Rein - 'Next-Gen Starts When I Say So' The ever-entertaining Epic Games VP Mark Rein, sassing "Don't take my picture!" at the photo-hungry crowd before the start of his GDC London talk on Unreal Engine 3 and Gears Of War, was bombastic as usual, commenting of the imminent debut of the X360 title: "Sony says the next generation starts when they say so - bullshit!" He also opined that Gears, as a second-gen Xbox 360 title is likely to look better than PS3 launch titles.
As Gears Of War ends, Rein explains that the concentration is changing to making the Unreal Engine 3 engine for PlayStation 3 better. He notes: "We have a couple of worried customers" regarding the PlayStation 3 and UE3, who are asking: "How are we going to get it to perform as well as the Xbox 360"? But this is now what Epic is concentrating on, as it moves toward the completion of Unreal Tournament 2007 "some time in 2007."http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11102

I was well shocked to read this. Expected lot better from a person of his position. The guy is crude & an arrogant pr*k. I think the big take up of Unreal engine by xbox360 (like 8/10 upcomming games inc. Lost Odyssey) has really got to this guys head too much. And what a moron to brag that he THINKS second generation Xbox360 title Gears Of War will look better than all PS3 launch titles ?? ! <--:drunk:

Thats plain funny & even more so stupid. Seems to me he is kicking Xbox360 in the teeth unwittingly by implying it took Epics committed efforts to make an exclusive second gen Xbox360 title that he only THINKS will look better than first gen PS3 launch titles... what a comparison.. . Hahaha.. sorry.

Not even going to bother with this one.. "We have a couple of worried customers" regarding the PlayStation 3 and UE3, who are asking: "How are we going to get it to perform as well as the Xbox 360" ?

This has got to be a joke ???? ! Is he out of his mind ? Or plainly stupid when it comes to company PR & ettiquettes ?


His ridicule does not stop there..

He countered recent stories that Gear of War lasts for 10 hours, “Someone said that at TGS but they were wrong. If you’re on the development team and you’ve played it 30 times then sure, you can get through it in ten hours but for first time players it’s going to be at least 12 hours.”http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3928&Itemid=2

"Oh My God ! ! ! Those lieing Sony bastards at TGS made out the game was 2 hours shorter than it was ! In fact its a HUGE 2 hours longer if you are a dumb ass noob" - Hahahah..ROFL.. Sorry again..

Really this guy is a complete embaressemnt .. :ghey:

[Kabbage]

He commented on the 360 disc storage and had negatives about Nintendo as well before... who cares what this guy thinks.

[VG Aficionado]

If by looking better he means no use of physics, empty non-destructible environments and no more than 5 characters on screen at once, yeah, he's right.

"Oh My God ! ! ! Those lieing Sony bastards at TGS made out the game was 2 hours shorter than it was ! In fact its a HUGE 2 hours longer if you are a dumb ass noob" - Hahahah..ROFL.. Sorry again..:laugh:

I don't care whether a game is long or short as long as it's all good and fun though. Crysis is said to be very short as well, although it's been said that every time you'll play through it you'll see new environments, characters, different events, etc.

[stanDarsh]

I don't see the need to be shocked. He's trying to hype his game so people will buy it. Gears of War is graphically very appealing, he'll probably say something similar about Unreal Tournament 2007 when that releases as well.

[yoshaw]

:huh: When did Sony or any of its execs said Gears is 10 hours?

[RavenFox]

Mark Rein needs to take the 'pill' and be done with it.

[Sephiroth_VII]

The fact that it's only 12 hours long couldn't have anything to do with lack of storage space, right? Yeah, it's probably just my imagination:duh:

[VG Aficionado]

The fact that it's only 12 hours long couldn't have anything to do with lack of storage space, right? Yeah, it's probably just my imagination:duh::evillaugh

[archy121]

:huh: When did Sony or any of its execs said Gears is 10 hours?


“Someone said that at TGS but they were wrong..".

This is about concise as he gets with all of his statements..:tardbang:

I don't see the need to be shocked. He's trying to hype his game so people will buy it. Gears of War is graphically very appealing, he'll probably say something similar about Unreal Tournament 2007 when that releases as well.

Well i'm shocked becuase its comming from the VP of highly recognised developer company & not some forum hog. We should expect better from individuals in such positions. Sure he is welcome to hype up his games but he is going about it using cheap tactics that I would expect at market stall. :spam:

[D3adcell]

The fact that it's only 12 hours long couldn't have anything to do with lack of storage space, right? Yeah, it's probably just my imagination:duh:

Even if they had more storage space it would take a ton of time and money to just create a shit load of levels etc. But there was a story on some site like joystiq or something saying the game has already been leaked (kinda like the half life 2 thing), and it only takes up like 7 gigs. IF that is true, then they didn't use up all the space.





As far as the comments. I think I remember him bashing Wii and 360 before aswell. This guy is basically a douche.

The only reason I can see Unreal Engine 3 running better on 360 would be because say it was programmed for PC's and Dual Core PC's. Then it would be easier to just transport over to the 360 then to optomize the code to run with the cell etc. But I don't think that would take all that much effort.

[Applefiend]

Another 12 hour 360 game, who would have thought it...

I'm sure it's a good 12 hours though, but minimum has to be 25 hours. Slack.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Even if they had more storage space it would take a ton of time and money to just create a shit load of levels etc. But there was a story on some site like joystiq or something saying the game has already been leaked (kinda like the half life 2 thing), and it only takes up like 7 gigs. IF that is true, then they didn't use up all the space.

Well, I've checked out the major torrent sites, and the only thing I could find was this fake (http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/850822/Gears_Of_War_Alpha_PC_Build_Pokekil_HOODLUM). If what you're saying is true, this is very unusual! The leaked version of HL2 was distributed via bittorrent, and it's by far that best way to do it.

[VG Aficionado]

Even if they had more storage space it would take a ton of time and money to just create a shit load of levels etc. But there was a story on some site like joystiq or something saying the game has already been leaked (kinda like the half life 2 thing), and it only takes up like 7 gigs. IF that is true, then they didn't use up all the space.I thought 360's DVDs can't use the full 8152 MB of a DVD9 but pretty much 1 GB less than that, so they're probably hitting the limit anyway.

As far as the comments. I think I remember him bashing Wii and 360 before aswell. This guy is basically a douche. This guy seems very moody as well. I honestly dislike him, and not because of today's news.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Yeah, only (http://digg.com/gaming_news/Only_7GB_of_an_Xbox_360_DVD_can_be_used_for_game_d ata.) 7 (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/174096756/m/664004939731/p/5) GB (http://www.gamersreports.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t6015.html), actually.

So, even if the rumour is true, GeOW has reached the limit.

[archy121]

Even if they had more storage space it would take a ton of time and money to just create a shit load of levels etc. But there was a story on some site like joystiq or something saying the game has already been leaked (kinda like the half life 2 thing), and it only takes up like 7 gigs. IF that is true, then they didn't use up all the space.


Well if this rumour is true & a the leaked non final build was 7Gig than i would say its pretty much topped the DVD limit taking into account thte XBOX360 reserves some space on DVD (i think protection etc??).

Now if they wanted to add another say 3-4 hours of gameplay.. do you really think it would just nicely slot into that remaining space ?? .. Also i think games have to be stored in certain order on DVD's so that reading/streaming (e.g. textures) can be done efficiently.

[VG Aficionado]

Yeah, only (http://digg.com/gaming_news/Only_7GB_of_an_Xbox_360_DVD_can_be_used_for_game_d ata.) 7 (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/174096756/m/664004939731/p/5) GB (http://www.gamersreports.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t6015.html), actually.

So, even if the rumour is true, GeOW has reached the limit.If you ask me, they probably "tailored" (i.e. mutilated) it to fit in the DVD.

[D3adcell]

Yeah, only (http://digg.com/gaming_news/Only_7GB_of_an_Xbox_360_DVD_can_be_used_for_game_d ata.) 7 (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/174096756/m/664004939731/p/5) GB (http://www.gamersreports.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t6015.html), actually.

So, even if the rumour is true, GeOW has reached the limit.

I just looked on a Torrent site and they have Dead Rising as 7.2 GB

Yet there are also Pal versions that are like 6.8GB

[Sephiroth_VII]

^Lol! Which explains the lack of physics and crappy AI? I haven't played the game myself, but when I watched the gameplay vids, the only thing that impressed me was the gfx.
In this gameplay vid from Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/gearsofwar/download_ini.html?sid=6158931&id=6158931), the player walks up close to an enemy. Watch what happens, it staggers like hell.

Compared to that RFoM has huge monsters navigating around in a very big environment filled with obstacles (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/6556), and it still looks great. That's the power of Cell.

D3adcell: Well, I only know what I've been told by various news sources. Maybe the limit is 7.2? I don't know.
If someone can get a link with MS discussing the capacity of the 360's DVD-9, it'll be much appreciated.

[xbdestroya]

LOL, I actually thought his comments were pretty funny (which is all he was trying to be).

I mean: 'Next-Gen Starts When I Say So' The ever-entertaining Epic Games VP Mark Rein, sassing "Don't take my picture!"

That's pretty funny IMO. :smoke: I think it's a totally valid joke to make at an industry event.

As for this: He notes: "We have a couple of worried customers" regarding the PlayStation 3 and UE3, who are asking: "How are we going to get it to perform as well as the Xbox 360"? But this is now what Epic is concentrating on, as it moves toward the completion of Unreal Tournament 2007 "some time in 2007."

Well I mean, he's just stating the truth. There's been some concern about getting the Unreal Engine working as smoothly on PS3 as on 360 and PC. And like he said, they're concentrating on that. Not sure why anyone would find that offensive, it's not like he's speaking to the PS3's power. But since UE3 doesn't play as large a role in PS3 development at this poitn in time as 360 anyway, why get agitated at all?

[D3adcell]

^I think that may just be that video, but I have never had a problem with deadrising and it is one of the funnest games I have played in a long time. Though the AI is not perfect, the enemies are zombies. I think you are taking the game out of context in a sense. Even if it was on the PS3 or some super gaming console of power it would still probably not have super physics or anything. Thats not the type of game it is.

Though if you want to talk about physics, graphics, and AI atleast choose a game like Alan Wake or BioShock.

But this isnt the 360 forum so lets not turn it into a complete 360 discussion.

[mmilinski]

The only reason I can see Unreal Engine 3 running better on 360 would be because say it was programmed for PC's and Dual Core PC's. Then it would be easier to just transport over to the 360 then to optomize the code to run with the cell etc. But I don't think that would take all that much effort.

This is strange, as Epic put together UE3 demo for E3'2005 in a matter of weeks. Then, during one of UT2007 work in progress interviews the same Mark Rein stated that they took PC code, translated it to PS3 and UT2007 ran @49fps without any optimisation in 720p mode. In the same time GoW ran (or crawled should I say) @ 10-15fps.

Around E3 this year GoW still had some unpleasant animation hiccups, then some news on the new multi-threaded renderer emerged, things were to improve significantly for the X360, and the same Mark Rein stated that this renderer would help UT2007 on the PS3 as well.

Right now all of a sudden we can hear that UE3 runs better on X360

[Sephiroth_VII]

^I think that may just be that video, but I have never had a problem with deadrising and it is one of the funnest games I have played in a long time.
But this isn't the 360 forum so lets not turn it into a complete 360 discussion.
Watch it yourself. It looks like a flaw in the AI to me, but I could be wrong.

Dead Rising is a good game, I've played it on a 360 owned by one of my friends. The AI is fitting for Zombies. Also, I doubt that even PS3 could pull off complex AI for that many characters at once.

I'll stop talking about the 360 now, peace:cheers:

[Nodieza]

Another 12 hour 360 game, who would have thought it...

I'm sure it's a good 12 hours though, but minimum has to be 25 hours. Slack.

Wow you guys really are getting worse and worse! It's so sickening.

Some of the greatest games were the shortest, between 8-16 hours long.

MGS, MGS2, MGS3, Shadow of the Collosus, ICO, Resident evil 1-3, Onimusha 1-4, Perfect Dark 64, James bond 007, Dead Risisng(one run through), Ninja Gaiden, Halo, Zelda link to the past, Yoshi's Island, Devil may cry 1-3.... Do I have to go on? I am sure everyone can find at least one game that is 8-16 hours long that rocked their world. What's stopping GOW from being that next game? "It's a 360 title" ??

I can say with certainty you it had nothing to do with disk storage, I know this is a ps3 centric site but you guys really need to read your posts and see how biased you are.

What about the 200 hour Oblivion?, Saints Row is near endless if your creative enough but it's at least 40 hours, Dead Rising because you WILL play through it more than once for at least 24 hours of awsome.

And why does a game need to be long to be enjoyable? I enjoy short games, ones I can actually beat without wasting my life away, The new Zelda scares me because the promised around 75 hours of gameplay :banana: It's going to be awsome... but I don't know if I'll ever find the time to beat it with so many great games coming out around christmas.

Please let us think both sides of the story before we post.

[archy121]

@xbdestroya

I'm not suprised to find you think Mark's statements as not a big deal - You being the neutral & rational individual.

But i'm sure thats not how huge majority of the internet community reading those reports will see it. To me Mark's proved himself to be a Yob in my book & thats just not because he said anything about the PS3. I don't like his mannerisms or his tact.:nono:

[BillCosby]

^I agree he could have handled the situation a lot better by not coming off like a sony bashing bafoon. I enjoy Epic's games have always played UT, and will continue to do so, but to dog sony at a press event thats just rediculous. Shame on you Mark shame on you.

[RavenFox]

This is strange, as Epic put together UE3 demo for E3'2005 in a matter of weeks. Then, during one of UT2007 work in progress interviews the same Mark Rein stated that they took PC code, translated it to PS3 and UT2007 ran @49fps without any optimisation in 720p mode. In the same time GoW ran (or crawled should I say) @ 10-15fps.

Around E3 this year GoW still had some unpleasant animation hiccups, then some news on the new multi-threaded renderer emerged, things were to improve significantly for the X360, and the same Mark Rein stated that this renderer would help UT2007 on the PS3 as well.

Right now all of a sudden we can hear that UE3 runs better on X360
Exactly!

[rob the slob]

The fact that it's only 12 hours long couldn't have anything to do with lack of storage space, right? Yeah, it's probably just my imagination:duh:
Yeah, nevermind the fact that almost all shooters are about the same length. So if Resistance is 10 to 15 hours, will it be a rip off as well?

[Applefiend]

We don't call 12 hour games rip offs.

We call em: "Rentals".

It was interesting seeing cliffyb getting goaded into talking trash about PS3 on G4 TV and nicely dodging the question. I do rather like cliffyb. Stand up fella.

Unlike Mark, who has a mouth like the mersey tunnel.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Yeah, nevermind the fact that almost all shooters are about the same length. So if Resistance is 10 to 15 hours, will it be a rip off as well?
I usually don't play many shooters, so I honestly have no idea of the average length.
However, that's no the core of what I'm trying to say. I'm talking about the 360 running out of storage space, not about the average length of shooters.

Let's stop this discussion before it gets bad, ok guys?

[Epix]

Mark Rein is a tool. UE3 is a PC engine that ports easy to the X360. Epic is too lazy to build a halfway decent engine for the PS3. Peace.

[Z]

Wow you guys really are getting worse and worse! It's so sickening.
with direct answers specified to certain replies, I would be careful not to generalize by saying 'you people'. mention the guy you just quoted and direct your reply to him.

[archy121]

Yeah, nevermind the fact that almost all shooters are about the same length. So if Resistance is 10 to 15 hours, will it be a rip off as well?

I wasn't complaining about the length but i have an opinion in regards to your question.

As a First Gen title, with large varied open environments, rich textures & sound quality to match, R:FOM would be more easily forgiven if it was not so long.

Its the fact that GeOW is a Second Gen title that is having Hot Air blown up its rear side that makes it deserve criticism if it doesn't deliver.

[ddaryl]

Mr Reign is obvioulsy in M$'s pocket which shouldn't surprise anyone. I'm probably going to say he is pissed off because Sony isn't gushing all over UE3

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/614/614712p1.html

E3 2005: Unreal 3.0 Tech on PS3
Proving that Unreal games aren't just for Xbox.
by Ivan Sulic
May 16, 2005 - Sony just took a bunch of steam out of Microsoft's Xbox 360 by demonstrating Epic's amazing Unreal 3.0 technology on the PlayStation 3.



While the technology was being used to run an untitled game, it was being used super well. This is important because until this moment, Gears of War, Microsoft's Unreal 3.0-powered third-person shooter, was the best looking Xbox 360 game we've yet seen. And there's the exact same technology...running with no problem on the PS3.

We'll have more details as they come.


Here is a post by Mark Reign regarding Sony's showings at E3 2005

http://ve3dboards.ign.com/Message.aspx?topic=19739475&brd=10523&start=19744941

His post quote is about 15 posts down

Guys,

In addition to the Sony demos being shown by Phil Harrison, the Epic and EA presentations were the only third party portions actually running on the PS3 in real-time. But most of those movies, which I probably watched 3 or 4 during rehearsals for the event, look very achievable and some were probably rendered on the actual box but in non-real-time. When a system is year away, heck even with a system is 6 months away, it is reasonable to expect the power of the dev kits would still only be a fraction of the power of the final system.

I know we'll certainly be able to achieve much more on the final box than we were able to show in our demo after working with the early dev kit for only ~2 months. As Tim mentioned our demo only really showed off the power of RSX and then still we're talk about an RSX that's nowhere near as fast as the final one will be. When we get home from E3 we'll also start diving seriously into the power of the cell processor. This is a very powerful system!

Sony's cell demos were extremely cool and inspiring but are totally achievable, and over time even surpassable, by third developers like us because, as Tim Sweeney said, the development environment is made up of parts we're already intimaately familiar with: OpenGL, NVIDIA graphics, Linux, and PowerPC. Think about Epic's experience, for example. We rock on NVIDIA hardware. We have been doing OpenGL since Unreal1. We regularly ship our games on Linux and we've won several Macintosh Game of the Year awards including a special World-Wide Design Award directly from Apple for UT2004. We're going to be able to kick serious ass on PS3, and so are a lot of our licensees and other 3rd party developers, in a way that wasn't remotely possible on past consoles.

I should add that we're in a similar position for XBOX360. It's also made up of parts we're intimately familiar with.

My point is that developers are going to be able to get SO MUCH MORE power out of these consoles than they ever could in the past and so much closer to the raw power of the components.

The next generation is just going to be AMAZING!!! Next gen games will be a huge leap forward over current gen.

Can you tell I'm excited?


SO can someone tell me how this guy goes from being impressed with the PS3 early on when most people had some major doubts, to his comments recently after the PS3 has shown off it's capabilites impresively to the masses ?

[Epix]

SO can someone tell me how this guy goes from being impressed with the PS3 early on when most people had some major doubts, to his comments recently after the PS3 has shown off it's capabilites impresively to the masses ?

Sounds to me like he's trying to hype up the ever-looming release of GeOW. Kind of a lame ass way of doing it though. :wank:

[OnBake Platinum]

I remember when this dude was at some meeting, and pretty much dissed the gamecube and rev (before anyone even knew anything about it) and got pwned like 3 times in a row.

"Graphcis r evertythign!"
Some dude: Then why is PS2 and DS winning?
"Um...hu evin opwns a gaycube lolz??/"
*pretty much everyone raises thier hands*

[Applefiend]

You know since shooters are Epic's bread and butter, you'd think he'd actually be a Wii fan. The nanchuck + Wiimote set up does first person shooters very very well, breathe new life into that tired genre.

[Nameless]

^ I don't find the comments that inflammatory, but I do wonder what he means by running well on 360... It's my understanding that developers have been struggling with UE3 as a whole regardless of the platform. The engine was not really designed for multi-threading... Honestly I doubt we will see a lot of UE3 engines powering PS3 games and that's a good thing IMO, when you consider the AA & FPS problems. Peace

[Raijin]

This is strange, as Epic put together UE3 demo for E3'2005 in a matter of weeks. Then, during one of UT2007 work in progress interviews the same Mark Rein stated that they took PC code, translated it to PS3 and UT2007 ran @49fps without any optimisation in 720p mode. In the same time GoW ran (or crawled should I say) @ 10-15fps.

Around E3 this year GoW still had some unpleasant animation hiccups, then some news on the new multi-threaded renderer emerged, things were to improve significantly for the X360, and the same Mark Rein stated that this renderer would help UT2007 on the PS3 as well.

Right now all of a sudden we can hear that UE3 runs better on X360

Mark Rein lies like he's breathing...

[BruceWayneIII]

KOEI also have trouble with the Unreal 3.0 engine on Fatal Inertia, with Epic, KOEI and SONY working together to fix the problems.

In my view, Epic isn't quite as ready for the challenges of the Cell (which is very different from XBox 360's CPU) as they ought to be, considering UE3 is shipped as a part of the PS3 devkits as a trial version. I would be rather embarassed if my company couldn't make my engine sing on the PS3.

[senas8]

I for one am pleased if games are about 10-14 hours long...I just get bored with games dragging on...no matter how good they are.

[Kiosko]

Epic?! How could he say that. Many developers are saying the devolopment on the PS3 is complex but not impossible. This guy needs to buckle down!

[vdo]

What I find strange is that he called attention to the length himself, and made such a big deal over the two hour difference.

He should have just said something like "People have said its 10 hours, it's about 10 to 12 hours actually and that is on par with many similar games in its genre."

But instead, he makes it sound like that he himself believes 10 hours is not long enough by seeming so defensive about it.

[Old_Timer!]

Mark has been contradicting himself for a good while now. He said Wii was gimmikcy then after the uproar tried to clarify his statement by saying Nintendo will make great games for the system.
PS3 is hard to develop for but UE3 was up and running in a matter of weeks, I rather hear from Tim who doesn't bash the PS3 and so far has been the one on stage to demo UT07 of PS3.

[rekkit]

"We have a couple of worried customers" regarding the PlayStation 3 and UE3, who are asking: "How are we going to get it to perform as well as the Xbox 360"

He has a point, Frame City Killer was-a-rockin!

The only worrying thing for me is he seems to be distancing himself from sony a little coming from his e3 unreal engine unveiling, someone with a sdk on both platforms should be a little more diplomatic.

[woundingchaney]

Its little more than one person's view on the consoles, I wouldnt put too much emphasis on the scenario.

[Sephiroth_VII]

^The voice of reason.

[Kabbage]

Yep the same can be said for most idiots.

Like the guy who wrote this title

Mark Rein: ‘Gears Way Ahead of PS3 Launch Titles’

and most of the fools over at the IGN boards

[Siraris]

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18737

Mark is posting in there, he actually apologized.

[Kabbage]

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18737

Mark is posting in there, he actually apologized.

And i'm Phil Harrison secretly browsing the forum :reggie:

[masteratt]

How are you Mr Harrison?

[VG Aficionado]

I think you guys are reading more into this than is actually there. We're ahead on 360 because our first UE3 title is for 360 so that's where the majority of our performance and optimization efforts have been because we're at the end of the project which is when these things tend to happen. The next title is for PC & PS3 so that's where the effort will be going and we'll be great on PS3 long before we ship that title.If that's true, that pretty much confirms UT2K7 will not be released on 360 despite rumours.

[woundingchaney]

If that's true, that pretty much confirms UT2K7 will not be released on 360 despite rumours.
Whether true or not, this would be an excellent title for Sony to maintain exclusiveness.

[Siraris]

And i'm Phil Harrison secretly browsing the forum :reggie:

It really is Mark Rein.

[EvilTaru]

You know since shooters are Epic's bread and butter, you'd think he'd actually be a Wii fan. The nanchuck + Wiimote set up does first person shooters very very well, breathe new life into that tired genre.

I'm not sure if the wii mote is actually THAT great for shooters, you have quicker aiming but it's not very steady, plus turning is slower, it was hyped to be god's gift to console shooter controls but I don't think that's actually the case, I think they will find some implementation of the wii mote to be great for some games, there are a lot of interesting ways to use it for non-games or party games that will interest wii fans, but from what I've seen so far, they still have a long way to go as far as shooters are concerned.

Epic's bread and butter is making graphically good-looking shooters and using them as showcase for the graphics engine they license to developers, the problem is that, to be quite frank, the wii simply doesn't cut it graphically. And the wii can't really run UE3, so that pretty much takes wii out of the immediate scheme of things for Epic, and no doubt the wii won't be able to run UE4, obviously the wii can still run a heavily modified UE2 engine, but Epic is likely moving away from that already.

[EvilTaru]

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18737

Mark is posting in there, he actually apologized.

LOL is that really him? :P

Anyway, that's why I hope Sony goes ahead and expand their first-party development capacity, so they don't have to put up with this BS all the time. Most of the time whenever some back-stabbing third-party publisher pulls some crazy stunt, Sony has to shrug it off, maybe once in a while they can just go and give someone like Rein the finger.

[yoshaw]

That's pretty funny IMO. :smoke: I think it's a totally valid joke to make at an industry event.

As for this: He notes: "We have a couple of worried customers" regarding the PlayStation 3 and UE3, who are asking: "How are we going to get it to perform as well as the Xbox 360"? But this is now what Epic is concentrating on, as it moves toward the completion of Unreal Tournament 2007 "some time in 2007."

Well I mean, he's just stating the truth. There's been some concern about getting the Unreal Engine working as smoothly on PS3 as on 360 and PC. And like he said, they're concentrating on that. Not sure why anyone would find that offensive, it's not like he's speaking to the PS3's power. But since UE3 doesn't play as large a role in PS3 development at this poitn in time as 360 anyway, why get agitated at all?

QFT!

[Kabbage]

How are you Mr Harrison?

Im great... a bit on the gassy side today, however. I thinks Mr. Reins' comments are just tosh... or either taken out of context. Even So, if they arent, it is just one man hyping his product similar to retailers who are persuaded to push a currently available product and not a product that has yet to make it to market.

[Z]

Im great
and in another quote:
I'm an ass
?

[yoshaw]

^lol

That's the beauty of Mark Rein's personality I guess. He's a versatile character. :laugh:

[Media]

The people at that forum are ridiculous. They all sound so proud to be "rabid fanboys", too.

[Domination]

The fact that it's only 12 hours long couldn't have anything to do with lack of storage space, right? Yeah, it's probably just my imagination:duh:

I didn't want to say anything earlier, but I was thinking the exact samething. I'm thinking the disc has just about, if not already, reached its capacity level. Just like an HDD, the games aren't going to use the full 8.5GB of capacity on the disc. So hopefully Epic hasn't relied on compression yet. This would be far too early than what I was anticipating if so.

[jaxmkii]

Mark Rein needs to take the 'pill' and be done with it.Mark Rein needs to hurry up and kill himself before someone beats him to it.:nervous:

[VG Aficionado]

I didn't want to say anything earlier, but I was thinking the exact samething. I'm thinking the disc has just about, if not already, reached its capacity level. Just like an HDD, the games aren't going to use the full 8.5GB of capacity on the disc. So hopefully Epic hasn't relied on compression yet. This would be far too early than what I was anticipating if so.I believe the 8.5 GB figure must be related to the unformatted capacity. Formatted DVD9 discs hold up to 8152 MB or 7.96 GB of data. 360's discs seem to only be able to hold up to ~7 GB. I'm sure it's not that 360 games have reached the limit: it's that developers are already cutting corners to make the games fit in those 7 GB.

[venomv]

I think it is more like 7.4 GB, and how long do you guys expect a shooter to be, they are normally so short that 12 hours seems like 2 games....

[VideoGame mania]

GOW 7.2gb,maximum dvd capacity 7.5gb oh snap?
12 hours is too short,15 hours should be the minimum,EPIC basicaly cut their game to fit on one dvd,multiplayer only 8 maps,I wouldnt be suprised if the game wont deliver HALO score
I remember Mark said their games would be 20+gb,hey Mark do you cut your games or you want to make extra bucks on XBOX LIVE

[Domination]

Wow you guys really are getting worse and worse! It's so sickening.

Some of the greatest games were the shortest, between 8-16 hours long.

MGS, MGS2, MGS3, Shadow of the Collosus, ICO, Resident evil 1-3, Onimusha 1-4, Perfect Dark 64, James bond 007, Dead Risisng(one run through), Ninja Gaiden, Halo, Zelda link to the past, Yoshi's Island, Devil may cry 1-3.... Do I have to go on? I am sure everyone can find at least one game that is 8-16 hours long that rocked their world. What's stopping GOW from being that next game? "It's a 360 title" ??

I can say with certainty you it had nothing to do with disk storage, I know this is a ps3 centric site but you guys really need to read your posts and see how biased you are.

What about the 200 hour Oblivion?, Saints Row is near endless if your creative enough but it's at least 40 hours, Dead Rising because you WILL play through it more than once for at least 24 hours of awsome.

And why does a game need to be long to be enjoyable? I enjoy short games, ones I can actually beat without wasting my life away, The new Zelda scares me because the promised around 75 hours of gameplay :banana: It's going to be awsome... but I don't know if I'll ever find the time to beat it with so many great games coming out around christmas.

Please let us think both sides of the story before we post.

I won't argue with that. Infact, I agree with you. A number of hours doesn't necessarily determine fun factor.

However, I found your analogy a bit distorted. If such a comparison should be made, it should originate from where it previously started.

Allow me to explain: When SoTC launched, it didn't launch until AFTER the console had been on shelves for more than a few years. By that time, every PS2 game had to be put on a DVD disc while a few moved to dual layer. Before this shift, PS2 games began audio CDs.

As a direct comparison, this generation launch titles were on dual layer DVD from the start. Rather those titles exceeded the disc or not, the point is this is where they started out. So to make a comparison with SoTC on a DVD to that of GoW on a dual layer isn't very accurate at all since SoTC is being pushed much harder, hence the reason DVD was used for such a title.

A fair comparison would have been SoTC on CD and GoW on dual layer.

[julps31]

If by looking better he means no use of physics, empty non-destructible environments and no more than 5 characters on screen at once, yeah, he's right.

:laugh:

I don't care whether a game is long or short as long as it's all good and fun though. Crysis is said to be very short as well, although it's been said that every time you'll play through it you'll see new environments, characters, different events, etc.Umm i don't know about you but i definantly don't wanna pay $60 for a game that i'll finish in a few days. Just because a game is fun doesn't excuse it for lack of longevity.

[Nameless]

^ It depends on the title... If the game has a great multiplayer option I'm not as concerned about the single player experience, it just depends on the genre. I guess one good example would be Socom on the playstation, I never completed any of the single player components, because I immediately went online once I took the disk out of the box. If the title does not have a strong multiplayer component I agree the title should be lengthy to justify the cost. In most cases I simply rent titles that do not have a strong multiplayer component. Peace

[julps31]

^ It depends on the title... If the game has a great multiplayer option I'm not as concerned about the single player experience, it just depends on the genre. I guess one good example would be Socom on the playstation, I never completed any of the single player components, because I immediately went online once I took the disk out of the box. If the title does not have a strong multiplayer component I agree the title should be lengthy to justify the cost. In most cases I simply rent titles that do not have a strong multiplayer component. PeaceYea definantly. It depends on the type of game and there features. 12 hours isn't all that bad either but i still stick by my core statement lol.

[Jasonps3]

Yea definantly. It depends on the type of game and there features. 12 hours isn't all that bad either but i still stick by my core statement lol.

It also depends on the gamer. If your not good of playing different types of games it would take even longer to finish a game.

[agentorange]

gears of war said to be using only 30% of xbxo 360 pwer

[Old_Timer!]

It's Gears of War one of the Second generation games, that's supposed to really show what the X can do. 30% I don't think soooooooo.

[Hrama]

gears of war said to be using only 30% of xbxo 360 pwer


Errr yeah, that was way before they even had it running on all three cores I believe. That quote was last year wasn't it?

[Old_Timer!]

Tomonobu Itagaki said in his Gametrailers interview that they've been working with the 360 for a 1 1/2 now and they are using it to it's full capacity. So look at DOAX2 and see what the potential of the X can do.
source: http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=13703

[GTShotoKen]

Tomonobu Itagaki said in his Gametrailers interview that they've been working with the 360 for a 1 1/2 now and they are using it to it's full capacity. So look at DOAX2 and see what the potential of the X can do.
source: http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=13703

I'm very sure he didn't mean that literally.

Developers said that early on in the PS2's life cycle, but games still kept getting better.

[Old_Timer!]

LoL guru, just making a point that the X is using more than 30% of it's potential power

[agentorange]

PR war doesnot stop! lair is 50% and gears of war 30%. Whom will we believe?

[yoshaw]

^Not you!!!

That's for sure! :roll eyes:

[araganekyassuru]

well if they havent even started making ue3 ps3 friendly it no wonder it doesnt work as well as ue3 360 seeing how a ue3 360 game is just around the corner

ue3 will work/look just as good on ps3 if not better when they're done with it

[masonite]

gears of war said to be using only 30% of xbxo 360 pwer


im sure GT5 only used 5% of PS3's power when it was just a few lines of code too....

[cpiasminc]

All of those percentage numbers are total marketing BS. Most games aren't even around 10% per-thread efficiency on the CPU side, whereas rendering is a similar-enough-to-status-quo problem that you can cram the GPU to its breaking point rather easily.

DOAX2, for instance, is fillrate-limited (which isn't exactly surprising -- almost every 3d game ever made is fillrate-limited in a sense), so since they're hitting one hardware limit as it is, he feels safe in saying he's tapped out the console -- well for that style of game and render pipe, that may be true. From a CPU side, they'd be lucky to have sipped on 10% of the CPU's practical limits (note : practical, not theoretical).

I don't know what the hell kind of crap voodoo arithmetic they use to arrive at stats like 30% of the console's power or 50% of the console's power... but it is nothing short of pure BS. You can't tell me that you've somehow magically solved concurrent programming to the extent that you're able to get something as linear as a game to be 30% or 50% efficient on the whole through the power of TLP and SIMD. People seem to forget that for all the momentary power we might extract by splitting something into several working threads, the order of dependencies means that most threads are going to be twiddling their thumbs and working for a little while when the data they need is ready.

If the 50% measure meant something like "well, we're able to push the GPU nice and hard, but barely scratching the surface on the CPU"... well, that I can accept -- that's how most games will be for the entire generation, and I do mean the ENTIRE generation. By that I mean that you could see a growth along the lines of what you saw over the lifespan of last-gen consoles, but to say that XeCPU or Cell were tapped out by the time Xbox4/3pi*r^3 and PS4 come out is silly.

[section]

I assume that TLP means thread level parallelism :)

Otherwise, what he said

[VG Aficionado]

I love how cpiasminc pwns agentorange every time he says something outrageous. Too bad he never learns.

[makeitlookreal]

Cpiasminc,

It's been said that the power of CELL won't be even near fully tapped for some time. That is very believable in my opinion because it's such a new architecture. However, for a common GPU what is usually the biggest road block when it comes to tapping even more performance?

[F089/H]

These VPs and PR people today....ya got Mark Rein,Peter Moore,J Allard.and are own KK.

[Nodieza]

I won't argue with that. Infact, I agree with you. A number of hours doesn't necessarily determine fun factor.

However, I found your analogy a bit distorted. If such a comparison should be made, it should originate from where it previously started.

Allow me to explain: When SoTC launched, it didn't launch until AFTER the console had been on shelves for more than a few years. By that time, every PS2 game had to be put on a DVD disc while a few moved to dual layer. Before this shift, PS2 games began audio CDs.

As a direct comparison, this generation launch titles were on dual layer DVD from the start. Rather those titles exceeded the disc or not, the point is this is where they started out. So to make a comparison with SoTC on a DVD to that of GoW on a dual layer isn't very accurate at all since SoTC is being pushed much harder, hence the reason DVD was used for such a title.

A fair comparison would have been SoTC on CD and GoW on dual layer.

While I do see what you're getting at in a sense, I still don't believe that has anything to do with the length of the game affected by the size of the DVD at least in the case of GOW, maybe down the line, but they'll start installing parts of the game on the hardrive before that happens.

You're probably right and I am probably wrong but here's to wishful thinking that M$ didn't stab themself in a vital artery.

[Domination]

gears of war said to be using only 30% of xbxo 360 pwer


That's false.

[cliffbo]

I don't see the need to be shocked. He's trying to hype his game so people will buy it. Gears of War is graphically very appealing, he'll probably say something similar about Unreal Tournament 2007 when that releases as well.

spot on Stan! with everyone and his kitchen sink saying that nearly all the games on the PS3 look better, can you blame him for this knee jerk reaction... its his baby, baby...

[cliffbo]

PR war doesnot stop! lair is 50% and gears of war 30%. Whom will we believe?

don't believe anyone, wait and see the games, then perhaps you'll lose a little red...

[cpiasminc]

However, for a common GPU what is usually the biggest road block when it comes to tapping even more performance?
In a broad sense, there's no real secret. Just keep it busy. ATI's claims about Xenos' efficiency are really tautological. The idea that you can't get close to 100% efficiency out of a GPU is a fallacy -- it's just a matter of how often you keep it there. Being in a console means you can keep it there more often.

Now on a more nit-picky level, you can get down to things like vertex stream formats and the shader optimizations and cheating away various hardware-limiting things in favor of something easier. Stuff I could write volumes about, which are individually not that significant, but add up when they affect things in large numbers.

[Nodieza]

This might be the anwser to all the GOW/DVD fitting questions:
http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=62752

Plus look at Mass Effect, Unreal Engine, and the game will be around the same size as KOTOR, which is rather large, nice physics, LOTS of dialog etc etc and as far as I know it will be on one DVD.

[julps31]

*waits for agentorange to come back in to thread*

[PUNK em 733]

*waits for agentorange to come back in to thread*



You're a sadist.:skull:

[julps31]

Lol...who me? nooo..i just noticed that when he gets called out hes no where to be seen and back up his word.

*agent orange...orange...orange. Come back...back..back lol

[PUNK em 733]

Lol...who me? nooo..i just noticed that when he gets called out hes no where to be seen and back up his word.

*agent orange...orange...orange. Come back...back..back lol



Of course, the guy only bashes with like one sentence of broken english, to refute something, he would have to actually have to use more than one or two sentences.:honor:

[OmniCloud]

LOL...i couldn't control myself and I registered to the forums just to shut some people up a bit. I'm having a field day OVER THERE!!! hahahahahha-none of the idiots that I talked about are responding-only the fans that have some sense are replying-I can't wait for the XBOTS to come and flame me as a Sony fanboy!

Back on topic-I"m trying to figure out if UNreal will be an exclusive or not. maybe if I bug Mark enough he'll give me a indirect hint or sutin...

[Siraris]

Omni, having posted on EA for a while, you didn't get the brunt of the XBots (probably because you are new and didn't post something idiotic). Just wait though, you keep posting and you'll see. If you side with Sony they'll come out in FULL FORCE.

It would be nice if more people who didn't hate Sony came to post on EA, so I didn't have to hold back the XBot armies alone!

[Garfunkel]

sometimes i feel there just m$ employees

[PUNK em 733]

LOL that J arcane guy is not just a tool, but a toolshed. Instead of arguing his point, all he has is grammar lessons, and junior high jokes.

[cliffbo]

Omni, having posted on EA for a while, you didn't get the brunt of the XBots (probably because you are new and didn't post something idiotic). Just wait though, you keep posting and you'll see. If you side with Sony they'll come out in FULL FORCE.

It would be nice if more people who didn't hate Sony came to post on EA, so I didn't have to hold back the XBot armies alone!

hold on hold on the cavalry is coming. lol

[Applefiend]

Arguing with idiots is a terrible waste of a young life.

[yoshaw]

:)

Developer lesson 101.

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"

Or you'll end up like this airhead.
http://forums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24634573&postcount=12
http://forums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=24634604&postcount=14

Wonder what's he's gonna spew next time he becomes enthusiastic at an event.

[Applefiend]

Aww, he's said sorry. Well bless him. He and his mates do make very kick ass games.

[masteratt]

As long as this guy brings UT2007 to PS3 I don't give a damn what he says.

Don't bother with Gears Of War port :angel:

[Domination]

He must have gotten an email from them. poor guy. :hurt: