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gozirah
10-20-2006, 10:49 PM
I did not see this posted yet. Notable are Harrison's statements about why the competition can't do 1080p, how BD is the same speed as HDDVD, why an integrated power supply is important, and a blank stare about slimline PS3.

This from gamepro.com


At Sony's Gamer's Day event today, GamePro editor Vicious Sid had the chance to grab a few minutes with Sony's PS3 frontman, Phil Harrison. We touched on several topics: Blu-ray disc speeds, internal power supplies, and that nagging question -- is the PS3 graphically inferior to the Xbox 360?
Harrison at the Tokyo Game Show

Harrison at the Tokyo Game Show

Phil Harrison: What surprised you? What was the thing that you weren't expecting to see?

Vicious Sid: I think...to see so many games in 1080p, looking as good as they did. I think there's this assumption that in some way the Xbox 360 has more graphical power. It's got 512 MB of dedicated video RAM...and that somehow the PlayStation 3 is a notch below that.

Harrison: That's not true, by the way.

Sid: I'm not sure how that works. I guess it's 256 video RAM, 256 system RAM [on the PS3]?

Harrison: No, the way that Xbox 360 works is that they have 512 MB of memory, same as PlayStation 3. But they have general purpose memory, rather than system-specified memory. But they only have a 10 MB internal frame buffer...

There's no disadvantage [to Blu-ray], there's only advantages in terms of bandwidth, content, and detail."

Sid: Yes, that's true...

Harrison: ....and so that's why they can't do 1080p full frame. Because the image has to be in the frame buffer and a full 1080p image is 8 megabytes, so you can't double buffer.

Sid: What do you think Microsoft's biggest vulnerability is right now?

Harrison: I'd rather talk about the strengths of PlayStation 3. I think that what we showed today maybe completes the puzzle that we didn't do a good enough job of completing at E3. Partly because the technology wasn't ready in all areas, but partly because we focused on the games...I think people were expecting to see more of the multimedia functionality explained. But that's then, and this is now. The integrated nature of the system is now obvious.

The fact that you've got cross media bar icons, ways of getting content into the system -- physically -- and digitally....

Sid: It comes full circle, with the PSP...

Harrison: Exactly! Did you get a chance to see the PSP [at the demo presentation]? It uses the full cross media bar [from the PS3]!

Sid: Obviously supply is going to be an issue for you guys through the end of the year. Is Sony still holding firm to launch shipment projections and through the end of March 2007.

Harrison: Yeah. I think that every successful game system has had some challenges in matching demand with supply day one. Sadly, we're going to be no different.

But, this seems a very difficult situation now, but in five years we'll be looking back and this will be a tiny little blip on the sales. While it's disappointing for users -- certainly disappointing for users in Europe, where we had to delay the launch -- but we'll catch up. We'll get supply going, we'll get the product out there, and we'll satisfy everybody.

Sid: One thing I find fascinating about the PS3 is that so much is integrated into one package; it's a very "neat" system, with integrated Blu-ray and especially the integrated power supply. Why is that important?

Harrison: Blu-ray functionality is something you get essentially for free. We need it for a game system, we need it as a game developer, and the fact that the disk is the same kind of format that gives us the movie cupcake as well -- that's great. And that was a strategic choice, as well as a tactical, practical, commercial choice.

[an IGN video crew has been rather visibly waiting for Harrison to finish up with me. Harrison turns to an approach crew member and says "I'll be with you in one second." He's clearly engaged when speaking about the PS3's hardware and wants to finish his thought.]

Harrison: Integrating the power supply is not for competitive reasons -- it's because we can....

Sid: [laughs]

Harrison:... It's because we have great hardware designers who can handle the functionality. In fact, because of the CPU power and performance of PlayStation 3, we need to have to have the power supply as close to the chipset as it possibly can be. And so that is the right technical approach. It's exactly what we did with PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2, and then you saw later in the platform's life cycle, when the different silicon process are used, you can go to a small external power supply, which allows you to change the form factor...

Sid: Do you think that's in the cards for PS3? A slim-line PS3?

Harrison: [completely deadpan] I wouldn't even speculate on that.

Sid: There's been some talk about DVD-9 [dual-layer DVD, as in the Wii and Xbox 360], and whether it's actually faster in transfer speeds than Blu-ray. Is Blu-ray faster or slower than DVD-9, practically speaking?

Harrison: There is no practical game design difference between Blu-ray [and DVD-9] in terms of speed. You get the benefits of storage -- more files on the disk, more data on the disk. So once developers are up to speed on the logical geography of the [Blu-ray] disc, loading times will be sorted out.

There's no disadvantage [to Blu-ray], there's only advantages in terms of bandwidth, content, detail, et cetra.

Sid: Looks like you're out of time. Thanks again!

Epix
10-20-2006, 11:01 PM
Harrison: ....and so that's why they can't do 1080p full frame. Because the image has to be in the frame buffer and a full 1080p image is 8 megabytes, so you can't double buffer.

Interesting.....Anyone care to elaborate?

BillCosby
10-20-2006, 11:22 PM
Interesting.....Anyone care to elaborate?

He's talking about the 360 only having 10mb for the frame buffer, and since a 1080p image is 8mb you dont have enough space to buffer the second frame with the first frame still in there. If your asking about the double buffer thing I suppose it helps avoid dropped frames, and gives you a smoother framerate.

Red_Eyes
10-21-2006, 12:25 AM
Double buffer makes the screen not flickers.

Epix
10-21-2006, 12:29 AM
He's talking about the 360 only having 10mb for the frame buffer, and since a 1080p image is 8mb you dont have enough space to buffer the second frame with the first frame still in there. If your asking about the double buffer thing I suppose it helps avoid dropped frames, and gives you a smoother framerate.

I understand the technical side, I was just trying to see if anyone wanted to discuss this quote vs. MS saying they CAN do 1080p.

archy121
10-21-2006, 12:42 AM
If Xbox360 has only "10mb for the frame buffer" which prevents it from handeling 1080P natively, how does the PS3 manage to overcome this ?

How big is it's frame buffer - considering it does not have any seperate EDRAM like its counterpart ? Or does it use a completly different technique to achieve this ?

:book:

VG Aficionado
10-21-2006, 12:51 AM
If Xbox360 has only "10mb for the frame buffer" which prevents it from handeling 1080P natively, how does the PS3 manage to overcome this ?

How big is it's frame buffer - considering it does not have any seperate EDRAM like its counterpart ? Or does it use a completly different technique to achieve this ?

:book:I guess it simply uses a portion of the 256 MB of GDDR3 VRAM. Slower than eDRAM, but cheaper and it doesn't have to share its bandwidth for both the CPU (inappropriate kind of RAM anyway) and the GPU :)

Crossbar
10-21-2006, 07:01 AM
I understand the technical side, I was just trying to see if anyone wanted to discuss this quote vs. MS saying they CAN do 1080p.
I guess technically speaking the 360 could render 1080p frames they would just use more tiles, they will be using tiling anyways as the 10 MB of EDRAM is to small to contain HDR and AA information anyway. If the rest of the hardware is up to the task to deliver the frames at 1080p speed I don't know.

Raijin
10-21-2006, 09:56 AM
The 360 wasnt designed to put 1080p games anyway. It was built to render 720p.

Garfunkel
10-21-2006, 10:20 AM
and sony's plans kinda scewwed them up

Crossbar
10-21-2006, 10:33 AM
The 360 is supposed to do 1080p after a sw upgrade according to this Sony document:
http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/videos/Next-Gen_Comparison%20FINAL.doc

CrumCon
10-21-2006, 10:46 AM
upscaing from 720p to 1080p is not possible. you cannot upscalling to progressive! only interlaced, 1080i that is.

yoshaw
10-21-2006, 11:15 AM
I uploaded the Gamespot Phil Harrison interview from gamers day.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PD0K8JRV

:cheers:

BruceWayneIII
10-21-2006, 03:04 PM
^^ Thanks

Z
10-21-2006, 03:25 PM
upscaing from 720p to 1080p is not possible. you cannot upscalling to progressive! only interlaced, 1080i that is.
isn't that what Xs does? or is that from 1080i to 1080p?

VG Aficionado
10-21-2006, 04:30 PM
Phil confirms that trailers and demos will be free of charge to download from the store (just in case somebody thought the contrary), and he seemed to confirm that downloadable PS1 games will be coming out "in the new year".

gozirah
10-21-2006, 10:35 PM
Okay, i know this is not suppose to be a hardware thread, but why does Harrison say that the power supply needs to be close to the chipset? I am guessing that future iterations of the chip will need less power, explaining why a small external PS will suffice. Perhaps with greater power requirements, more current through longer wires leads to more heat losses? Anyway an integrated package is a cleaner design. That's seems a good enough reason.

Metal Sphere
10-21-2006, 10:43 PM
upscaing from 720p to 1080p is not possible. you cannot upscalling to progressive! only interlaced, 1080i that is.

This is one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while... Yes, you can upscale to progressive if you have the proper television and cables.

Okay, i know this is not suppose to be a hardware thread, but why does Harrison say that the power supply needs to be close to the chipset? I am guessing that future iterations of the chip will need less power, explaining why a small external PS will suffice. Perhaps with greater power requirements, more current through longer wires leads to more heat losses? Anyway an integrated package is a cleaner design. That's seems a good enough reason.

It's possible they did this for thermal reasons. Maybe the power supply and chipset are cooled by one giant heatsink. So, instead of having multiple heat sources in the console, they have it all under one roof, with the fan positioned right there.

From what Qwarky said, most the the time, the fan isn't even on. It's throttled by the console itself according to its cooling needs.

Z
10-22-2006, 02:34 AM
Sid: What do you think Microsoft's biggest vulnerability is right now?

Harrison: I'd rather talk about the strengths of PlayStation 3.
this is the attitude that I like. :)

woundingchaney
10-22-2006, 02:36 AM
I guess technically speaking the 360 could render 1080p frames they would just use more tiles, they will be using tiling anyways as the 10 MB of EDRAM is to small to contain HDR and AA information anyway. If the rest of the hardware is up to the task to deliver the frames at 1080p speed I don't know.

MS can do 1080p but they would lose some of the advantages associated with the edram. (to what extent I dont know)

Garfunkel
10-22-2006, 02:44 AM
I think Microsofts biggest vulnerability right now is competition.

You can upscale 720p to 1080p, 360 can do it as well, but only at 30fps....

Metal Sphere
10-22-2006, 02:52 AM
MS can do 1080p but they would lose some of the advantages associated with the edram. (to what extent I dont know)

In other words, it'd literally put it in the same situation the PS3's architecture is in at 1080p. BTW, these two consoles can render and output 1080p @ 60fps. The problem is, this is extremely taxing.

woundingchaney
10-22-2006, 02:55 AM
I think Microsofts biggest vulnerability right now is competition.

You can upscale 720p to 1080p, 360 can do it as well, but only at 30fps....


It can do native 1080p at 60fps through a VGA connection.

At least I believe so, if wrong please let me know.

But I agree, the single largest vulnerability the 360 faces is its competition.

yoshaw
10-25-2006, 06:30 AM
While we're on the subject of Phil harrison sorry if put up twice ;)

While Sony answered many questions at the Gamers' Day today, it only added fuel to the fire. We had the opportunity for a quick chat with Sony's President of Worldwide Studios Phil Harrison to talk about media streaming, casual games, region free gaming, and much more.

Game Informer: I have a question about the interface, that you displayed today…

Phil Harrison: Did you like it?

GI: I do like it. I got used to it with the PSP.

Harrison: Yep. Good.

GI: Are you planning on allowing streaming of audio or video from PCs or any other devices to be played through the PS3?

Harrison: Locally over a network?

GI: Yes, locally.

Harrison: You mean if you’ve got movies or music content somewhere else in the home? Not day one. Day one functionality is if you’ve got a USB hard drive full of music, you can copy that across to your PS3 hard drive.

GI: Like an MP3 device?

Harrison: Yes.

GI: With the PlayStation Store are you going to sell movies and music to be downloaded to your PlayStation 3?

Harrison: Yes.

GI: Not right away, but in the future?

Harrison: It’s not a technical issue, it’s more of a business issue. That will clearly be a part of the store offering in the very near future. You saw the store is built for thousands and thousands of pieces of content covering all kinds of digital content.

GI: Sony is entering the casual game space, and you’ve shown a few original games, and downloadable PS1 games. Are PS2 games planned as well?

Harrison: Initially PlayStation 1 game images can be downloaded and enjoyed on your PSP. We’ll have an upgrade to the PSP firmware in November which gives you that functionality. In the new year you’ll be able to do that with PlayStation 3. I think it’ll be a little ways off until we do that with PlayStation 2. The image size of the discs is a little bit larger. But obviously we’ve got backwards compatibility day one out of the box.

GI: What about the casual games that you can download like flOw. Will you be able to play those on your PSP as well?

Harrison: Some games – not flOw – because that is dedicated to the six axis controller [ed: We played flOw using both the analog sticks and tilt functionality of the Sixaxis controller at TGS 2006]. Some games we’re developing can be played on the PSP or PlayStation 3.

GI: Are you going to go after the classic arcade game space as well?

Harrison: We don’t need to. We’ve got them all on PlayStation 1. That’s a glib response, I know. We have 13, 000 titles, and not all of them obviously will be available.

GI: What about more of the basic games like card games, parlor games, things of that nature?

Harrison: Definitely casual games, parlor games, family games. All of that is coming. We wanted to show our direction today focused around November 17th. Plus we’ve got a lot of content to come.

GI: Heavenly Sword, any update on that title?

Harrison: It will be out next year.

GI: Any reason why it’s not here?

Harrison: We focused on what would be available on November 17th. The title is coming along fantastically. It’s not a day one launch title. But it still rocks.

GI: The PlayStation 3 console is region free for games?

Harrison: Yes.

GI: Is that just PlayStation 3 games or will that be for PlayStation 2 games as well?

Harrison: Disc based games still have the region coding on the disc, so we have to respect that.

GI: So Japanese PS2 games will not work on US PlayStation 3s?

Harrison: Not at the moment, no.

GI: When do you think we’ll see the next-gen Eye Toy?

Harrison: Early next year.

GI: November is going to be a big month for video gamers with everything you guys have coming out with the PS3, the Wii will be released, Xbox 360 is on their second-gen games – what do you think your biggest challenge is heading into this holiday season?

Harrison: Hardware supply.

GI: How much of a disadvantage do you think having sub-500,000 is going to put Sony?

Harrison: Disadvantage is not the right word. It is clearly a short term challenge – we’ll overcome it. For the perspective of five years it’ll be a tiny blip on the sales chart. It’s disappointing for those who won’t be able to buy their PS3s on day one, but we’ll catch up.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200610/N06.1020.0105.24629.htm

Applefiend
10-25-2006, 07:02 AM
Bum, my US PS2/PS1 games won't work...

I'll just buy another one then. :)