PS3 Taken Apart!

[BlueTsunami]

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3.htm

M/B
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_35.jpg
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_36.jpg
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_37.jpg

CXD2973GB controller chip
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_34.jpg

BD drive and PSU
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_20.jpg
PSU connector
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_21.jpg
WLAN card and PSU
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_23.jpg

Fan (16cm)
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_25.jpg
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_26.jpg
Heat sink
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_27.jpg
Heat pipe
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_29.jpg

OMG

Once again, Bad_Boy speading the info from which where I got it and originating from one of B3D

Thanks to them

[8_Bit]

Interesting fan design. No wonder it's so quiet. A large fan is always quieter. We can also see why the PS3 case has the outward bulge now.

I'm also interested in the heat pipes. Three longer ones for the RSX as opposed to two shorter ones for the Cell. I think we all suspected the RSX would be the hotter part...this confirms it.

[Delirious]

Oh my God! Im gonna be sick...:barf:

[BlueTsunami]

Interesting fan design. No wonder it's so quiet. A large fan is always quieter. We can also see why the PS3 case has the outward bulge now.

I'm also interested in the heat pipes. Three longer ones for the RSX as opposed to two shorter ones for the Cell. I think we all suspected the RSX would be the hotter part...this confirms it.

Apparently the Heat Pipes are actually filled with liquid, is this normal? I'm not to familiar with Heat Pipes in general and if thats the norm for them.

[julps31]

Oh my God! Im gonna be sick...:barf:Lol...its so graphic.

[8_Bit]

Apparently the Heat Pipes are actually filled with liquid, is this normal? I'm not to familiar with Heat Pipes in general and if thats the norm for them.

Yeah. That's normal.

These appear to be rather common copper heat pipes, which are usually partially filled with either distilled water, denatured alcohol (ethanol) or sometimes mercury (though that would be unlikely for a device like the PS3, due to environmental and heath risks) and sealed.

Inside the pipes, near the top of the chip where the thermal paste bonds the plate the pipes are mounted to, the liquid is heated to past it's boiling point, so it vaporizes. When the vapor travels to a cooler part of the pipe, away from the heat source, it condenses and turns back to liquid, then, it flows back to to the heat source via capillary force, like wax flowing toward a flame in a candle wick. This constant cycling makes heat pipes very efficient.

[BlueTsunami]

Yeah. That's normal.

These appear to be rather common copper heat pipes, which are usually partially filled with either distilled water, denatured alcohol (ethanol) or sometimes mercury (though that would be unlikely for a device like the PS3, due to environmental and heath risks) and sealed.

Inside the pipes, near the top of the chip where the thermal paste bonds the plate the pipes are mounted to, the liquid is heated to past it's boiling point, so it vaporizes. When the vapor travels to a cooler part of the pipe, away from the heat source, it condenses and turns back to liquid, then, it flows back to to the heat source via capillary force, like wax flowing toward a flame in a candle wick. This constant cycling makes heat pipes very efficient.

Thats awesome. Thanks for the explanation 8_Bit :D

[8_Bit]

Thats awesome. Thanks for the explanation 8_Bit :D

No problem.

Science is kick ass.

[Garfunkel]

my baby!...what....what d-d-did they do to y-you...?

That looks like a great cooler. huge fan, that is why it is so quiet. Also good that they chose to use copper instead of aluminium.

[version]

look RSX new pics

[Carlos]

I just saw this at TXB, they're making fun of the chips and "not enough bandwidth."

[stuart_r]

If you look at the Combo PS2 chip do you think it's got some memory for just the PS2 above it?

[BlueTsunami]

I just saw this at TXB, they're making fun of the chips and "not enough bandwidth."

:p

They instead should be crying over how GoW Online Multiplayer is borked

About the EE and GS apparently it has its own pool or RAM? I think I read that somewhere

[ddaryl]

No problem.

Science is kick ass.

Sony blinded me with Science !


cool pics, anyone know the RSX specs LOL!

[8_Bit]

Sony blinded me with Science !


cool pics, anyone know the RSX specs LOL!

Please don't poke the hornet's nest.

:eek2:

[xbdestroya]

cool pics, anyone know the RSX specs LOL!

The question isn't if people know them; it's are you ready to believe them? ;)

[ddaryl]

Please don't poke the hornet's nest.

:eek2:



Yeah, you got me. I'm holding the stick, and poking the nest and MILR is standing under it. :!:

I'm getting stoked for next Friday :djparty: :pepper:

[BlueTsunami]

The question isn't if people know them; it's are you ready to believe them? ;)

Oh my god XB don't dooo this :D lol

[smurfx]

The question isn't if people know them; it's are you ready to believe them? ;) so it's really 500 mhz and has 24 pixel pipes?

[xbdestroya]

so it's really 500 mhz and has 24 pixel pipes?

What do you mean 'really?'

It's as if me and plenty of others haven't been saying it for months now!

@BlueTsunami: No, that's not how I meant it. It was more like an 'accept reality' sort of thing. :smoke:

[8_Bit]

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_38.jpg

"It's like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black."

http://www.harryshearer.com/art/tap_horn.gif

[RzrWire]

I thought porn of any kind wasn't allowed in the forums? In either case I like what's under the hood.

[xbdestroya]

"It's like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black."


Agreed, beautiful chips and layout in the packaging.

[Crossbar]

Neat multi-chip for the RSX, where they included the GDDR3 RAM. This means shorter latencies! Perhaps this is one of the reasons why RSX do so well without EDRAM.

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_38.jpg

[Garfunkel]

that looks so well done. very clever design.

[makeitlookreal]

Can an expert tell us something about the design of the RSX from those photos?

[Old_Timer!]

Made by the hand of God errr Ken.

[Crossbar]

You could compare the RSX multi-chip package with the 360 multi-chip:

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/1210/xbox58.jpg
Xenon is split into the shader chip and the EDRAM+some AA logic+some more chip.

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_38.jpg
The RSX contains the NV47 based shader chip and the 4 x 64 MB (total 256 MB) GDDR3 RAM chips over a 128 bit bus.

The GDDR3 RAM chips of the 360 are located further away from the GPU which leads to higher latencies.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5756/xenon360id2.jpg

Here you can find a pic of the full 360 board:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/1210/xbox62.jpg

[OnBake Platinum]

Excellent engineering.

[version]

what are the 8 NEC TDKIN chips ?????
flashmemory?

[Lekko]

is it just me, or on the right side of the RSX can you see trace wires? is the chip board transparent?! Or is it just the surface traces? or am I seeing things

[makeitlookreal]

Yes, it was admitted a while back that the PS3 has flash memory.

How much of a latency improvement are we talking about here?

[8_Bit]

Trying to decipher the Samsung chip codes for the GDDR3 chips now...

K4J52324QC-SC14

The first bit is pretty straightforward. "K" is code for "Memory", "4" means "DRAM", "J" is type, GDDR3 SDRAM, ect.

The code after the dash is interesting:

S: Have no idea what that means...not listed on Samsung's sheet.

C: Temp, Power=Commercial Normal

14: Speed=1.429ns ( 700MHz )

700MHZ?

I would have expected that number to be 16...1.667ns ( 600MHz )

A slight upgrade to the newer stuff?

Here's a link to the Code Information sheet:

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/Support/Label_CodeInfo/Graphics_code.pdf

[Sephiroth_VII]

How do you calculate that?

One question, why does the Xenon have more cables going to and from it than the RSX?
Is it because it has to have some for the ram, as well, where the RSX basically has it right next to the chip?

[Crossbar]

How much of a latency improvement are we talking about here?
Well, you can make some calculations of your own, just estimate how much shorter the lines are and divide with the speed of light. :)

[Garfunkel]

no it was always 700, rumor of 650

[version]

Well, you can make some calculations of your own, just estimate how much shorter the lines are and divide with the speed of light. :)


lol

[version]

8 nec chips not ram not flash only high speed frequency decouplings

[8_Bit]

no it was always 700, rumor of 650

There's no such thing as a 650MHZ GDDR3 Chip though. You'd have to declock a 700 MHZ chip to get 650MHZ. So that wouldn't make sense since Sony wouldn't save any money doing that. I thought the RSX downgrade rumor had them doing 600MHZ instead. I suppose they could declock to save a little bit of heat exchange, but it looks like the RSX cooling is pretty robust.

[Garfunkel]

as i said, it was a rumor

[curryking1]

Oh jeez.. it felt like just yesterday when we were speculating about this beast of a machine... now we have people 'round the globe taking photos of it's innards, dissecting ever bit of it, and putting it on display to the world.

O what a great time it is to be in gaming!:cry2: :cheers:

[Z]

I've been waiting to see PS3's inards for 6 freakin' years!
now I can die happy. :)

[Z]

okay, what is that lovely black dimond in the middle? is that the backside of one of the main chips or what?

[VG Aficionado]

okay, what is that lovely black dimond in the middle? is that the backside of one of the main chips or what?That's RSX core!

So the GDDR3 seems to be clocked at 700 MHz (1400 effective)? Nice.

[Crossbar]

So the GDDR3 seems to be clocked at 700 MHz (1400 effective)? Nice.

we cannot draw any conclusion about the working frequency from the chip spec alone.

Some of the first 360 boxes shipped with 800 MHz GDDR3 chips, still they were just clocked at 700 MHz. :shrug:

[makeitlookreal]

If someone was able to take the black top off the RSX core could they count the pipelines and so fourth? It would be interesting to determine how many pipelines are actually on the chip to see how many they had to de-activate to reach 24 pixel pipelines.

[Crossbar]

If someone was able to take the black top off the RSX core could they count the pipelines and so fourth? It would be interesting to determine how many pipelines are actually on the chip to see how many they had to de-activate to reach 24 pixel pipelines.

I suggest you do that yourself when your PS3 arrives.

I am looking forward to your discoveries. :cowboy:

[makeitlookreal]

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

I dare not mess up my every so precious PS3! IT NEEDS ME! I NEED IT! MY PS3...... I NEED THEEEE!!!!!!

[GUNDAMSEED]

It is porn seeing inside of the ps3 it's so lovely . There it is Cell, nov 27 if i get my ps3 first thing is putting YDL and doing some homebrew

[stanDarsh]

MILR. It's more indepth than that, you'd need to see it under a microscope. However I doubt many people would break their PS3s just to know how many pipelines RSX Contains

[Garfunkel]

pipelines aren't literally viewable pipelines MILR. You can't just open up the chip and see pipes running along it.

[version]

96 pipeline

[makeitlookreal]

Version,

I have to say that even though you seem like a nice person your random numbers that you have been giving out for a year at least are getting frustrating!

I think instead 96 representing the number of pipelines in the RSX the number 96 represents the number of various configurations of the RSX you have randomly posted.

[version]

:D

rsx die size 16*16 mm =260 square mm,
g70 is 200 + soundchip+flexio

it isnot g80 sorry that 400+ squaremm

[xbdestroya]

Guys the GDDR is still clocked at 650MHz, get over it.

It's crazy seeing people bend themselves backwards over this! :smoke:

Here's an article on the matter for those that just can't or don't want to accept it from me personally:

http://www.beyond3d.com/#news35566

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I'd like to see someone put a penny or some kind of familiar object next to the chips on the motherboard to get a sense of scale.

[FantasyGhost]

http://www.ps2-scene.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11561&d=1163266421

Source: www.ps2-scene.org
Seems like they were right putting the ps2 hardware inside it instead of going only the software way like MS. This is where Sony has an advantage over Microsoft i guess.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Why is the 360 (http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/system/microsoft/xbox360/mb.jpg) so cluttered compared to the PS3 (http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg)?

[Hrama]

They were just commenting on that on B3D last night I think. The general consensus was that is was just a better layout with higher quality parts in general. Don't know how true that is though Sephiroth...

[Sephiroth_VII]

Link, please?

I was pretty surprised when I compared them. 360's looks cheap... Not to sound like a fanboy, but really, it does, IMHO.

[xbdestroya]

360 uses cheaper capacitors; that's what you're seeing create a lot of the clutter on the board. It resembles more a low to mid-end PC motherboard on that respect.

[Garfunkel]

exactly, saw a pic of it shortly after launch in Nov last year and it kinda looked...plasticy?

I guess this is just the things Sony has over MS, being able to fab their stuff themselves/having great experience.

[FantasyGhost]

Check this disassembly movie:
Part1: www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHS07EFGZ3g
Part2: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcoEA69MuYM
Part3: www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdB2qQPv7LI
Part4: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOf5m8XH4pY

[cpiasminc]

One question, why does the Xenon have more cables going to and from it than the RSX?
Is it because it has to have some for the ram, as well, where the RSX basically has it right next to the chip?
That's the big part of it. GDDR-3 is a wide parallel differential signaling bus. In fact, I think all the bus architectures in the Xbox360 are parallel differential signaling (though the CPU<->GPU bus isn't, IIRC), which means that not only do there need to be a lot of wire traces, but they're also a bit more obfuscated in shape because they all need to be the same length. Most all of the bus architectures in PS3 (except for the GDDR-3, which shares a package with the RSX die) are serial, with skew compensation built in. And of course XDR and FlexIO are serial and differential signaling. You might notice the wire traces between RSX and CELL are all in pairs (with a few triplets for power).

You'd have to declock a 700 MHZ chip to get 650MHZ.
Yeah, how about that? Declocking a device that is, by design, rarely clocked all too conservatively for its operating voltage.

So that wouldn't make sense since Sony wouldn't save any money doing that. I thought the RSX downgrade rumor had them doing 600MHZ instead.
The only mention of a 600 MHz number was in regards to what the devkits carried, which was indeed true at one point, but it was never said that would be final (in fact, it was rather expressly stated that it would NOT be).

I dare not mess up my every so precious PS3! IT NEEDS ME! I NEED IT! MY PS3...... I NEED THEEEE!!!!!!
You know... if it were anyone else but you, MILR, I'd assume this to be in jest.

I think instead 96 representing the number of pipelines in the RSX the number 96 represents the number of various configurations of the RSX you have randomly posted.
..... Is this the same MILR? Or is this MILR after having taken his lithium?

However I doubt many people would break their PS3s just to know how many pipelines RSX Contains
Breaking the seal on the slug would basically be impossible without shattering the silicon die itself. There will be die photos at some point (those are usually done after colorants have been added to dies which are deemed useless. I'm more curious about all this DD3.x business and how substantial it actually is ('substantial' in the Shakespearean sense).

[makeitlookreal]

Thanks for the commentary CPI!

Yes, I'm DROOLING to get my PS3. After seeing all those people in Japan with boxes in their arms it makes me long for mine, especially after seeing the latest Resistance Fall of Man pics.