We lost 2 more exclusives :(

[Sypher]

Fatal Inertia and Bladestorm: The Hundred Year War are now set top appear on the 360 as well.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/22/ps3-loses-more-exclusives/
http://www.xbox.com/ja-JP/press/release/20061122.htm

Guys, this isn't looking too good for the PS3. Albeit, both titles weren't exactly blockbuster, system sellers, they still were designed for the PS3 then jumped ship. For me atleast its getting harder to want a PS3, if this keeps happening. All I have left for the system is WNS, Heavenly Sword, FFXIII, and RE5 and DMC4, which both have a strong leaning toward multiplatform.

[Fats]

Already posted.

[GTAce]

RE5 was announced from the beginning for 360 and PS3, White Knight Story and Heavenly Sword are afaik published by Sony, FF13 is imo to complex to go multiplattform.

[VG Aficionado]

Just another developer who decided to go multiplatform, and I don't think it's Sony's fault, but the fact that they want to get more money. Given the quality of their products (in non-Japanese terms), I don't think I'll care at all. Fatal Inertia seemed to get better each time we saw it, but WipeOut is what I want.

[Colin™]

I've never understood what the big deal was about going multi-platform.

All the systems have their "go to" titles that will never jump ship, and those seem to be the ones that make or break the systems. I mean, the entire GTA series went to Xbox, but it was still the PS2 that took control of it. Yeah, they weren't right on time, but still. Anyone get my point?

And besides, as long as its going to your system, whats the big deal? Playstation 3 really isn't going anywhere.

[cliffbo]

no big deal here wipeout will more than compensate the loss of exclusivity
of FI and bladestorm besides they might still be good games anyway.

:)

[Z]

I've never understood what the big deal was about going multi-platform.
I agree. as a gamer, all I care about is having a game on the system of my choice/already have. I don't care if it appeared on every other system or not.
besides;
they still were designed for the PS3 then jumped ship
that is the important thing for those who worry they will lose features or will not get the best experience because their port/version of said game won't get the attention it deserves. well, for the two games mentioned here, they were, presumably, built from the ground up for PS3, then ported to X2.
For me atleast its getting harder to want a PS3
don't rush it and then regret it a few months later like how many did with PSP or DS. wait till you are sure and don't just get something because everybody else wants it or because it is "in" at the moment. you are making an investment wich will live with you for at least half a decade. you don't want to get messy after a few months. it just wouldn't be worth it. give it a rental if you have to, just to see if you really want it.

also, many are going multi-platform and are a bit shady with PS3 is very reasonable. on one hand, you have a capable system which sold 6 million units and is available everywhere. on the other hand, you have a system that is extremely hard to get a hold of and that only sold around 250k units world wide. I am even surprised to see any 3rd party exclusives at this time, whether timed exclusive or not.

give a new console a chance. once supplies become stable and abundant, about six months from now, you'll start seeing it catching up steam with regards to 3rd party exclusive projects. give it room to stand on its feet and grow a little.

[GTAce]

I agree tatally with Z.
Great post man!

[GUNDAMSEED]

i think FI was made with unreal 3 engine that come as no suprize . bladestorm i think both ps3 and x box 360 would better of if that game die.

[Raitei]

Also, Armored core is going to 360 as armored core 4

[Nit3m4re]

In my opinion, as long as we don't loose the game entirely, I am not bothered. Sure if the game was exclusive to PS3, it will be marginally better, but if its a game that clearly has multi platform potential any game company will take it if its not too difficult to do. However, games like WipeOut in my opinion are not what they used to be and even a next gen version wouldn't make me want it now so I would say its not a major loss. The 3 games that I would be devastated about if we lost them would be Devil May Cry 4, MGS4 and Final Fantasy XIII, but not gonna happen so I'm cool.

[curryking1]

Even if this did matter to anyone, losing exclusives... do you honestly think either game is gonna be any good? I mean, I can maybe see Fatal Inertia being pretty fun, but not amazing, if it gets better graphically, and has the physics it boasted so much before. And Bladestorm is basically a more graphically intense Medieval 2 TW but with probably much crappier gameplay.

All KOEI is good for is their hot ladies at TGS.

[pollux]

well:
Bladestorm looks HORRIBLE, gundam level quality.
Fatal Inertia looks interesting, but is no match for the future Wipeout PS3 :)

[Anddo]

Not really a big deal given the two titles.. I'm still interested to see how Fatal Inertia turns out though...Bladestorm not so much, that game looks like PS1 lol.

[Raijin]

Fact: aside a few number of titles (mostly SCE games) most of games will go multiplatform.

[Kensaki]

Well multiplatform is the way of the future imo. Its not a bad thing, if you believe it'll somehow hurt the PS3 I think you underestimating the power of the brand in most people's brains. Most people today own a Ps2 and is happy with it, they'll upgrade as the opurtunity arises. Only people I see really fawning over the 360 is the PC crowd. But they never was the main target group of Playstation anyhow.

[nwo504]

multi platform is bad for gaming . they usually have to limit themselves to the weakest console.

[julps31]

Yea i'd rather not have games goin multi-platform like that. Its coo to have some games but its the exclusives that makes the consoles different then each other (for the most part).

But i'm not crying over this one.

[lips]

looks like we are headed to a future of maybe only sony games as an exclusive. atleast ps owners can still enjoy rockstar and squaresoft games being developed for the ps first.

[mario25]

one word...unreal engine 3.0

[OmniCloud]

Well multiplatorm is the way of the future imo. Its not a bad thing, if you believe it'll somehow hurt the PS3 I think you underestimate the power of the brand in most people's brains. Most people today own a Ps2 and is happy with it, they'll upgrade as the opurtunity arises. Only people I see really fawning over the 360 is the PC crowd. But they never was the main target group of Playstation anyhow.Exactly man...it's all about the user base. Playstation is the first console that people will flock too. The price point will turn many people off early on..which is why PS2 is still doing so great. PS3 will simply slide it's way into everyone's house. M$ has the same strategy with the XBox. PC-crowd gamers. Which is why so many FPS were on Xbox. This is not a 100 million unit system. Wii is exactly the type of console that will have millions of units sold in a few months. Sony also has this-because of PS3's wide range of functionality-but the PS3's price really doesn't fit into Mainstream...

[mario25]

Sony...just bring us some wipeout ownage and nobody will remember this game was on ps3

[Viano]

not lost it, it's still on ps3 loL

[julps31]

not lost it, it's still on ps3 loLOh really? lol.. Yea I was thinking it was exclusive to the x-box. But i didn't actually read the artical lol. Well either way..doesn't really mean much to me since i wasn't crazy about either game in the first place. But i was keeping an eye out for fatal Inertia.

[HolyPaladin]

Expect exclusivity to diminish over time. The costs of developing games isn't getting any cheaper, and the price tags on them aren't keeping pace with the inflations of development costs.

I'm going to reference a Reuters article that discusses the benefits of developing for the Wii, but I don't want anybody figuring that I'm doing this as some sort of fanboy Sony-bashing or Nintendo-praising. It's the development cost figures I'm interested in at this moment.
http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-11-16T151625Z_01_NB9356554_RTRIDST_0_MEDIA-WII-GAMES.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna

Nintendo, which was the leading console maker before Sony's PlayStation debut in the mid-90s, will sell its own games for $50, compared with the $60 price on most new games for the PS3 and Xbox 360.

The cheaper price may mask fatter profits for developers. Consumers buy Wii titles for 17 percent less than next-generation console games, but publishers say development costs for Wii are only half as much -- or less.

THQ Inc. (THQI.O: Quote, Profile, Research) Chief Executive Brian Farrell said that investment in a next-generation video game can run roughly $12 million to $20 million, while a title for the Wii could be in the $5 million to $8 million range.

As expensive as it is to develop a game, especially for either the PS3 or the 360, if I was a developer I'd be very interested in increasing the number of potential buyers by offering my game on more than one platform. The hope of course being that I might sell more copies across both platforms.

[Siraris]

Considering Koei is one of the biggest backers of Sony, this is pretty bad news.

[Delirious]

Good news for me, as I am planing to get a 360 eventually. Must suck for ps3 fanboys though. Kinda like it sucked when RE4 went to ps2.

[Red_Eyes]

My GOD. This is bad for the PS3. Losing all these exclusives. The PS3 is doom. Time to go out and sell your PS3 and buy a 360 so you can play Blade Storm and Fatal Inertia, which is also available on the PS3. But sell your PS3 anyway and buy it for the 360, since the PS3 lost it's exclusivity.

[Z]

My GOD. This is bad for the PS3. Losing all these exclusives. The PS3 is doom. Time to go out and sell your PS3 and buy a 360 so you can play Blade Storm and Fatal Inertia, which is also available on the PS3. But sell your PS3 anyway and buy it for the 360, since the PS3 lost it's exclusivity.
wow. i am sure glad I couldn't get a PS3 for a million bucks. I would have had to throw it in the garbage can just because Dynasty Warriors: Eurpean Cross-Dressing will also come out on something else.

thank you for saving my life.

PS. seriously, for the thread starter; you would have a better chance if you'd pick games that actually moved exclusivity completely. it would also help if they were proven big sellers. ;)

[Kabbage]

wow. i am sure glad I couldn't get a PS3 for a million bucks. I would have had to throw it in the garbage can just because Dynasty Warriors: Eurpean Cross-Dressing will also come out on something else.

thank you for saving my life.

PS. seriously, for the thread starter; you would have a better chance if you'd pick games that actually moved exclusivity completely. it would also help if they were proven to be good games ;) Fixed.

[jaxmkii]

I've never understood what the big deal was about going multi-platform.

simple if the game has to run on both systems it can't be optimised for the more powerfull one in this case the PS3 will get jiped

example you could never multi-platform RFoM as it would not fit on 360s DVD so it would have to be watered down.

yes they could develop for both but that usaly cost to much so they just go buy the lowest common denominatior.

because of this i expect GTA4 to be short on the PS3 due to 360s outdated media format. hopefully they will just force MS to go multidisk. its there fault they crippeld the otherwise good system why should PS fans pay for MS lack of vision.

[jaxmkii]

My GOD. This is bad for the PS3. Losing all these exclusives. The PS3 is doom. Time to go out and sell your PS3 and buy a 360 so you can play Blade Storm and Fatal Inertia, which is also available on the PS3. But sell your PS3 anyway and buy it for the 360, since the PS3 lost it's exclusivity.
go play your 360

[Z]

he was joking Jax- as was I. ;p

[Kensaki]

Honestly I don't think multiplatform will be as bad as many says.

Also as people has stated many of the true AAA titles like FFXIII and MGS4 and GTHD/5 will still be exclusive and console selling titles. I for one have 360 and PS2 and GC and will get the other consoles as they hit europe. It's about the games and not the console afterall.

*Drags out his snes and starts playing Chrono Trigger*

<3

[Domination]

simple if the game has to run on both systems it can't be optimised for the more powerfull one in this case the PS3 will get jiped

example you could never multi-platform RFoM as it would not fit on 360s DVD so it would have to be watered down.

yes they could develop for both but that usaly cost to much so they just go buy the lowest common denominatior.

because of this i expect GTA4 to be short on the PS3 due to 360s outdated media format. hopefully they will just force MS to go multidisk. its there fault they crippeld the otherwise good system why should PS fans pay for MS lack of vision.

Very true, Jax. There is just one thing wrong in this particular case. These titles originally slated for the PS3 first, the game using the Unreal Engine, and Koei being a multi console developer from the start. So in reality, if Koei wanted to do something with the title specifically for the PS3 they would have already done so.

[woundingchaney]

simple if the game has to run on both systems it can't be optimised for the more powerfull one in this case the PS3 will get jiped

example you could never multi-platform RFoM as it would not fit on 360s DVD so it would have to be watered down.

yes they could develop for both but that usaly cost to much so they just go buy the lowest common denominatior.

because of this i expect GTA4 to be short on the PS3 due to 360s outdated media format. hopefully they will just force MS to go multidisk. its there fault they crippeld the otherwise good system why should PS fans pay for MS lack of vision.

You could mulit platform Rfom. There is no reason why this game wouldnt work with 2 dvds. Once the game is region specific that will cut capacity itself. We have no idea what compression or the extent of compression used in the title either.

Im willing to bet that the game would have little difficulty in being ported over. I would even bet storage issues would be one of the lesser concerns.

Never in the history of gaming has using multiple disks been much of an issue (we can all think of several titles that we have purchased and drastically enjoyed that released on more than one disk), and the only reason why it is an issue now is for fans to claim dominance in a scenario that matters so little.

[VG Aficionado]

Never in the history of gaming has using multiple disks been much of an issue (we can all think of several titles that we have purchased and drastically enjoyed that released on more than one disk), and the only reason why it is an issue now is for fans to claim dominance in a scenario that matters so little.Sorry, but there really is a problem with multiple disc games: this method only works with linear games or with games with separate game modes or extras. How in the world could that work with games like GTA? The only way is to lower the quality of the content until it fits the DVD. And compression is not going to work miracles.

Once the game is region specific that will cut capacity itself.I'm not willing to accept that anymore. I'd hate to go back to region-specific games. It may be easy to say for you, who probably never experienced NTSC to PAL conversions and probably don't care about languages other than English, but that's not the case of all European gamers who could actually play games in their NTSC original version, and particularly those who enjoy having more than one language available, which is my case.

[woundingchaney]

Sorry, but there really is a problem with multiple disc games: this method only works with linear games or with games with separate game modes or extras. How in the world could that work with games like GTA? The only way is to lower the quality of the content until it fits the DVD. And compression is not going to work miracles..

That has yet to be determined as there are several GTA style games in the making for the 360 and some already available. In the future you may be right but as of right now it doesnt seem to be an issue.

Compression technology has come quite a ways, although I agree that it isnt going to work miracles, but I seriously doubt that storage capacity will be a large concern in porting or publishing games for the 360. The larger storage capacity in the BR games is of coursed preferred but I have a hard time believing its this dooms day scenario for the 360 that many of us insist on it being.


I'm not willing to accept that anymore. I'd hate to go back to region-specific games. It may be easy to say in your situation, who probably never experienced NTSC to PAL conversions and probably don't care about languages other than English, but that's not the case of all European gamers who could actually play games in their NTSC original version, and particularly of those who enjoy having more than one language available, which is my case.
I understand that you enjoy more than one available language but just how many people do you think honestly care?? I cant possibly see region specific games even entering into the mind of 99 percent of consumers.

[VG Aficionado]

That has yet to be determined as there are several GTA style games in the making for the 360 and some already available.This means pretty much nothing out of context. When there have been games in the last few years which needed DVD9's full storage capacity, I'm sure there will be many games which will require more than that in the coming years. It just doesn't make a lot of sense that games can be much larger and feature higher quality content while still being restrained to the same size. As I said, compression doesn't work miracles and we will see many examples of this in the coming years. Sacrifices have been and will have to be made.

The larger storage capacity in the BR games is of coursed preferred but I have a hard time believing its this dooms day scenario for the 360 that many of us insist on it being.I don't mean "dooms", but "hinders".

I understand that you enjoy more than one available language but just how many people do you think honestly care?? I cant possibly see region specific games even entering into the mind of 99 percent of consumers.That's not what I meant at all, I only said that there's another negative consequence to region-specific games, which is the inability to choose a language. What I meant is that NTSC to PAL conversions imply resolution and framerate changes to name just two of the important problems, which make PAL versions to be usually inferior to their NTSC counterparts. Think of unstable and lower framerates with 100% regular frame drops in the worst cases, random audio and video flaws, and on top of that, delays because the conversion is made after the NTSC version is finished, or the fact that both the NTSC and PAL versions have to be pushed back in order to be released the same day. This is something that I don't want to experience again, and I couldn't be happier to know that all PS3 games will be region-free.

Now go tell all those European gamers who have experienced these flaws in the past twenty years that next generation games will still feature them. Which is the case of 360 games, you know.

[section]

I noticed today that Blue Dragon for Xbox 360 will be shipped on 3 DVDs. So multiDVDs don't seem to be a nono.

I'd still much rather prefer any game to ship on 1 disc, considering it has enough space :)

[mario25]

I noticed today that Blue Dragon for Xbox 360 will be shipped on 3 DVDs. So multiDVDs don't seem to be a nono.

I'd still much rather prefer any game to ship on 1 disc, considering it has enough space :)

Really?...this is like when microsoft anounced 1080p support for the 360, firts the were saying it was worthless and then they were all up to it.

Not saying multi-disc gaming is bad though

[+ANTI+]

Do something, sony.
Get their blue dragon, lost planet or something.

Q:What costs more, game on 1 BD or game on 3 DVD!?

[woundingchaney]

This means pretty much nothing out of context. When there have been games in the last few years which needed DVD9's full storage capacity, I'm sure there will be many games which will require more than that in the coming years. It just doesn't make a lot of sense that games can be much larger and feature higher quality content while still being restrained to the same size. As I said, compression doesn't work miracles and we will see many examples of this in the coming years.

I don't mean "dooms", but "hinders".

That's not what I meant at all, I only said that there's another negative consequence to region-specific games, which is the inability to choose a language. What I meant is that NTSC to PAL conversions imply resolution and framerate changes to name just two of the important problems, which make PAL versions to be usually inferior to their NTSC counterparts. Think of unstable and lower framerates with 100% regular frame drops, random video flaws, and on top of that, delays because the conversion is made after the game is finished, or the fact that both the NTSC and PAL versions have to be pushed back in order to be released the same day. This is something that I don't want to experience again, and I couldn't be happier to know that all PS3 games will be region-free.

Now go tell all those European gamers who have experienced these flaws that next generation games won't be any different.

Quality of content has much more to do with available memory than it does with storage capacity. As far as length (amount of content) of games, I dont see the m.d. issue being a problem if more storage is needed another disk will be used. The major title everyone was specualting on (GTA) has already been announced as being multiplatform so what else is there (of course this would depend on how it turns out). There will be games that require more than a DVD9 (we are already seeing this), and it will be handled as it has in the past which never was an issue before.

The video drops and framerate issues may still plague the PS3 titles as this depends on the quality of the conversion itself. But the advantage of a simultaneous release with each other is a bonus. Although in this theory wouldnt this push back launch in other regions that dont need the conversion??

Im willing to tell the European gamers that the next generation may continue have the same issues.

I see m.d. being a hindrance much as I see the slower read speed of the BR drive and the need for large installs on the hdd to be a hindrance. Neither one is much of an issue in the larger scale of things.

[Domination]

Ok, this is the advantage I see with Blu Ray:

It's true that larger environments can in fact be squeezed on multiple discs, which, in the end, resolves the problem nicely. What I don't see are those titles usually not requiring multi discs to be a problem. As an example, let's use a title like DOA4 or Star Breeze's latest title Darkness. Because DVD9 wasn't enough, corners had to be cut in these titles in order to fit them on a single disc. Or to use an even better example, let's say a game is 9GB total but only eight of that was able to be compressed onto a single disc to cut cost. For a developer to use an extra disc just for one remaining gig can act as a problem. So the result is a down scalled game.

[VG Aficionado]

The video drops and framerate issues may still plague the PS3 titles as this depends on the quality of the conversion itself.I don't know what you're talking about, since there will be no PS3 titles "conversions" - this is what region-free means. The system itself and not the game will adapt to the TV set.

But the advantage of a simultaneous release with each other is a bonus. Although in this theory wouldnt this push back launch in other regions that dont need the conversion??I think you're getting it now. If there wasn't a need to make a conversion, the consumer could perceive two advantages: the fact that European users wouldn't have to wait for their PAL version and the fact that no game would have to be pushed back anywhere because of the intention to release both versions at once. When a game needs a conversion, it sucks for a number of reasons that it can't be just as good the original is. The same applies to movies.

Im willing to tell the European gamers that the next generation may continue have the same issues.You know, there's a good chance that the small graphical differences in multiplatform games on both PS3 and 360 will be considerably more noticeable simply because of the fact that 360's versions could be PAL only. Not only that, but how nice will it be to tell European gamers who would only get a PAL version that they can't play online with people outside Europe because the refresh rates are uncompatible, no matter whether their TVs could support NTSC mode? How nice would it be to tell them that they can't take part in a worldwide tournament, mostly when they're paying to be able to play online?

I see m.d. being a hindrance much as I see the slower read speed of the BR drive and the need for large installs on the hdd to be a hindrance. Neither one is much of an issue in the larger scale of things.There is no "larger scale" of things: there are just three next generation systems in the market, if we take PCs out of the equation, or just two systems if we consider Wii to be in a different category. There is no "need" of large installs of PS3 games, as this is just a standard option available for everyone to reduce loading times in order to make them shorter than any loading times a 12x DVD drive could ever provide with; it's not that it's there just because the Blu-ray drive can't perform properly in most cases, which is not true anyway.

What is more, there is a standard feature (the preinstalled HDD) inside every PS3 which compensates for the possible reading speed issues as it can be used not only to cut loading times, but to cache and stream content, be used as virtual memory and whatnot, while 360 has no standard feature to compensate for DVD9's storage room limitations. You can't release a HDD-only game and expect people to accept that they have to pay for or own already an add-on in order to enjoy that game, even if most 360 users have a HDD. What is worse is that 360 developers haven't and won't be able to rely on the HDD in the same ways as PS3 developers, and this results in limitations that even 360 premium systems can do nothing about... unless you want to divide your fanbase in premium users and "sucky" users who can't take full advantage of their games.

[woundingchaney]

Ok, this is the advantage I see with Blu Ray:

It's true that larger environments can in fact be squeezed on multiple discs, which, in the end, resolves the problem nicely. What I don't see are those titles usually not requiring multi discs to be a problem. As an example, let's use a title like DOA4 or Star Breeze's latest title Darkness. Because DVD9 wasn't enough, corners had to be cut in these titles in order to fit them on a single disc. Or to use an even better example, let's say a game is 9GB total but only eight of that was able to be compressed onto a single disc to cut cost. For a developer to use an extra disc just for one remaining gig can act as a problem. So the result is a down scalled game.

To a certain extent I would agree.

Although what brought up Starbreeze, they made the statement of prefering the extra storage of the BR disks but what dev. wouldnt. If your referring to the lower resolution on the "tvs" in game I could see your point, but as far as Im aware that hasnt been stated to have anything to do with storage capacity. There is going to be issues on both systems as they stated both games will play exactly the same only one title will have better textures and one will have higher resolution on ingame televisions.

I remember early comments made by It. refering to ingame cinemas taking up much space but the game was still released below the capacity of DVD9 with quite a bit of cinemas in the beginning and end sequences for each character. Im not aware of anything being left out due to storage concerns.

With the costs of game production I cant see an additonal disk being much of an issue at all.

[woundingchaney]

I don't know what you're talking about, since there will be no PS3 titles "conversions" - this is what region-free means. The system itself and not the game will adapt to the TV set.

I think you're getting it now. If there wasn't a need to make a conversion, the consumer could perceive two advantages: the fact that European users wouldn't have to wait for their PAL version and the fact that no game would have to be pushed back anywhere because of the intention to release both versions at once. When a game needs a conversion, it sucks for a number of reasons that it can't be just as good the original is. The same applies to movies.

You know, there's a good chance that the small graphical differences in multiplatform games on both PS3 and 360 will be considerably more noticeable simply because of the fact that 360's versions could be PAL only. Not only that, but how nice will it be to tell European gamers who would only get a PAL version that they can't play online with people outside Europe because the refresh rates are uncompatible, no matter whether their TVs could support NTSC mode? How nice would it be to tell them that they can't take part in a worldwide tournament, mostly when they're paying to be able to play online?

There is no "larger scale" of things: there are just three next generation systems in the market, if we take PCs out of the equation, or just two systems if we consider Wii to be in a different category. There is no "need" of large installs of PS3 games, as this is just a standard option available for everyone to reduce loading times in order to make them shorter than any loading times a 12x DVD drive could ever provide with; it's not that it's there just because the Blu-ray drive can't perform properly in most cases, which is not true anyway.

What is more, there is a standard feature (the preinstalled HDD) inside every PS3 which compensates for the possible reading speed issues as it can be used not only to cut loading times, but to cache and stream content, be used as virtual memory and whatnot, while 360 has no standard feature to compensate for DVD9's storage room limitations. You can't release a HDD-only game and expect people to accept that they have to pay for or own already an add-on in order to enjoy that game, even if most 360 users have a HDD. What is worse is that 360 developers haven't and won't be able to rely on the HDD in the same ways as PS3 developers, and this results in limitations that even 360 premium systems can do nothing about... unless you want to divide your fanbase in premium users and "sucky" users who can't take full advantage of their games.

One version of the game is made and then the other is developed. Its feasable that the NTSC version could be better suited than the PAL version 9 or vice versa) resulting in some of the difficulties you described. Simply because both standards are available on a single disk doenst mean that they will both perform flawlessly.
-note- Im not sure exactly what point we are addressing here and I apologize as I believe I may be misinterpreting what you are stating. Are you stating the possibility that a certain version may not exist on the market subjecting users to buy the unsupported version of the game?? I must admit not living outside of the US makes this issue rather foreign to me (but please bear with me LOL).:cheers:

360 developers can program to detect the hardware if it exists and use its features just as easily as a standard hdd. If devs. dont do this thats one thing but as history has shown us, simply because a feature is standard doesnt mean it will be used either. (I can point you to the digital location and name of a dev. that spoke with me on the issue if you like, he is much more knowledgeable than me in this matter). With the attachment rate of the 360 hdd I seriously doubt there will be any second thoughts on releasing a hdd only game (as we already have them). Caching and streaming content is already used in 360 games.

There is the need of large install in PS3 games if the user doenst want to be subject to considerably longer loading times in games. Very similar to the need of 360 owners to use multiple disks.

The "sucky" relevance goes in the same vein as the HD standard. The majority of next gen gamers dont experience the quality of gameplay that other do because they dont have the hardware. There are several other games that have features for additonal periphrials that arent standard, yet they are still fully supported and run just fine without the additional hardware.

It is apparent that the compensation used for the storage capacity of DVD9 is going to be additional disks. The presence of a harddrive doesnt matter other than of course the downloading of additional content (and those users interested in this feature should be aware of the necessity of the hdd, of course you will have the occaisional oblivious users out there).

[Domination]

To a certain extent I would agree.

Although what brought up Starbreeze, they made the statement of prefering the extra storage of the BR disks but what dev. wouldnt. If your referring to the lower resolution on the "tvs" in game I could see your point, but as far as Im aware that hasnt been stated to have anything to do with storage capacity. There is going to be issues on both systems as they stated both games will play exactly the same only one title will have better textures and one will have higher resolution on ingame televisions.

I remember early comments made by It. refering to ingame cinemas taking up much space but the game was still released below the capacity of DVD9 with quite a bit of cinemas in the beginning and end sequences for each character. Im not aware of anything being left out due to storage concerns.

With the costs of game production I cant see an additonal disk being much of an issue at all.

Resolution wasn't what what I was refering to Wounding. It was content that was left out of the game. I believe it was extras that displayed on a television or something in the game. This here is just a small example. RE4 on the GameCube is the best example I can give you that may lead to what I am trying to explain.

[woundingchaney]

Resolution wasn't what what I was refering to Wounding. It was content that was left out of the game. I believe it was extras that displayed on a television or something in the game. This here is just a small example. RE4 on the GameCube is the best example I can give you that may lead to what I am trying to explain.

Ok I see what you are referring to, but Im not aware of any display content being left out just the resolution difference in the two titles of the ingame "tv displays". You may be right.

[VG Aficionado]

Are you stating the possibility that a certain version may not exist on the market subjecting users to buy the unsupported version of the game??Precisely. The PAL version is an altered version which is subject to additional flaws over the original NTSC version. Poorer frame rates, a picture which doesn't fit any TV (and I'm talking about both 4:3 and 16:9 formats), sound problems, huge online limitations, etc. And it's really that bad when only this version is available in PAL regions. One of the most important mods in PAL regions are mods to enable newly bought consoles to play NTSC games. Just wonder why.

360 developers can program to detect the hardware if it exists and use its features just as easily as a standard hdd. If devs. dont do this thats one thing but as history has shown us, simply because a feature is standard doesnt mean it will be used either. With the attachment rate of the 360 hdd I seriously doubt there will be any second thoughts on releasing a hdd only game (as we already have them). Caching and streaming content is already used in 360 games.By doing that, it means that as soon as there are serious plans to do that, MS has to dump their whole core pack fan base, stop producing it and stop developing content taking their restrains into account.

There is the need of large install in PS3 games if the user doenst want to be subject to considerably longer loading times in games.I haven't heard of any overly long loading times so far, even taking into account they're first generation titles. The install option is just an option to enjoy games at their best, rather than a need to enjoy them.

[woundingchaney]

Precisely. The PAL version is an altered version which is subject to additional flaws over the original NTSC version. Poorer frame rates, a picture which doesn't fit any TV (and I'm talking about both 4:3 and 16:9 formats), sound problems, huge online limitations, etc. And it's really that bad when only this version is available in PAL regions. One of the most important mods in PAL regions are mods to enable new consoles to play NTSC games. Just wonder why.

By doing that, it means that as soon as there are serious plans to do that, MS has to dump their whole core pack fan base, stop producing it and stop developing content taking their restrains into account.

I haven't heard of any overly long loading times so far, even taking into account they're first generation titles. The install option is just an option to enjoy games at their best, rather than a need to enjoy them.


They are already making hdd only games, there is already the use of the hdd for caching in games (Im sure they are serious here). MS wouldnt need to stop the sell of the core package as the games that do involve caching still run on the core and the hdd only games make it apparent the consumer must have a hdd. I dont see why they would need to stop developing games that require the hdd or use it. The hdd is required for many aspects of the 360, still those that arent interested in those aspects may purchase the console for 100 USD less.

Genji for example require a 15 second load time (I would consider this overly long) without the hdd, for an action title this is a considerable amount of loading. The install nearly quarters the time but requires a 3 minute, 4 gig worth of data to be put on the hdd. This option is reminiscent of the core package, users who dont purchase the hdd are accountable for longer and more frequent load times. People realize that without the hdd install they are going to sit during longer load times.




--I believe I understand the PAL and NTSC.

[jaxmkii]

I noticed today that Blue Dragon for Xbox 360 will be shipped on 3 DVDs. So multiDVDs don't seem to be a nono.

I'd still much rather prefer any game to ship on 1 disc, considering it has enough space :)
But... but... next gen media is not neccicary:corky:

[Z]

Q:What costs more, game on 1 BD or game on 3 DVD!?
they said that making a BD disk is only a fraction more than making a DVD disk. by that, I guess making one BD is cheaper than making two DVDs, let alone 3.

also, keep in mind that games don't have to be larger or bigger. we could have the same exact games as today's. the thing that some keep forgetting is that making a game in high resolution takes up much more space on the disk- especially if you are going for full native 1080p.

so we could have the same exact game one on one DVD, while the other would require maybe five times more storage (and thus using BD) just because it had its resolution pumped.

[ddaryl]

As long as the games are being made on the PS3 then ported to the Xbox 360 I don't care.

Any game made on the Xbox 360 that is ported over to the PS3 is going to suck in comparison to the Xbox 360 version. Any PS3 game ported over tot he Xbox 360 is going to look inferior in comparison. The 2 systems are radically different.

I'll say it again.... BOYCOTT PORTED GAMES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why should any gamer pay $60 to play an inferior version of a game just so the dev company can increase their profit margin. If you are going to do a multi-platform game then it either has 2 dev teams making seperate versions that take advantage of each systems capabilites or don't bother.


Personally I despise multi-platform games and ports and will only entertain a few of them over the life of the PS3, and the ones I do purchase will have been made for the PS3 1st then ported to other platforms.

So I don't want any Xbox 360 exclusive to go multi-platform because it will be a waste of effort and I won't be buying it anyway.

[VG Aficionado]

They are already making hdd only games, there is already the use of the hdd for caching in games (Im sure they are serious here). MS wouldnt need to stop the sell of the core package as the games that do involve caching still run on the core and the hdd only games make it apparent the consumer must have a hdd. I dont see why they would need to stop developing games that require the hdd or use it. The hdd is required for many aspects of the 360, still those that arent interested in those aspects may purchase the console for 100 USD less.That's not the point. A Saints Row developer said that they couldn't add flying in the game because the HDD was not standard. They could make the game recognize whether each individual system features a HDD or not and enable flying missions, but this would result in making core customers not being able to enjoy the game fully. That's not acceptable.

Shorter loading times or anything that involves less frequent access to disc are tasks that either an optional or an standard HDD can perform. However, when a game needs to rely on an HDD to enable the system to run some of its features, it's only possible when the HDD is standard. That's a limitation they're not going to solve until they discard core pack customers.

[Kabbage]

As long as the games are being made on the PS3 then ported to the Xbox 360 I don't care.

Any game made on the Xbox 360 that is ported over to the PS3 is going to suck in comparison to the Xbox 360 version. Any PS3 game ported over tot he Xbox 360 is going to look inferior in comparison. The 2 systems are radically different.

I'll say it again.... BOYCOTT PORTED GAMES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why should any gamer pay $60 to play an inferior version of a game just so the dev company can increase their profit margin. If you are going to do a multi-platform game then it either has 2 dev teams making seperate versions that take advantage of each systems capabilites or don't bother.


Personally I despise multi-platform games and ports and will only entertain a few of them over the life of the PS3, and the ones I do purchase will have been made for the PS3 1st then ported to other platforms.

So I don't want any Xbox 360 exclusive to go multi-platform because it will be a waste of effort and I won't be buying it anyway.

Why do you think both games look like trash... prepare for a lackluster 360 port :aimhappy: Which is fine since I had no intent on buying either one of these games.

[woundingchaney]

That's not the point. A Saints Row developer said that they couldn't add flying in the game because the HDD was not standard. They could make the game recognize whether each individual system features a HDD or not and enable flying missions, but this would result in making core customers not being able to enjoy the game fully. That's not acceptable.

Shorter loading times or anything that involves less frequent access to disc are tasks that either an optional or an standard HDD can perform. However, when a game needs to rely on an HDD to enable the system to run some of its features, it's only possible when the HDD is standard. That's a limitation they're not going to solve until they discard core pack customers.

Since then we have seen a GTA style game that has had flying in it and done well. That quote is very outdated and was made prior to the launch of the 360 (if I believe right).

[VG Aficionado]

Since then we have seen a GTA style game that has had flying in it and done well. That quote is very outdated and was made prior to the launch of the 360 (if I believe right).Again, that's not the point. The point is that two identical systems will never perform as good as the other one as long as one of them has a feature the other doesn't and the software actually takes full advantage of it in ways only possible on the fully-featured system. Think of virtual ram and the benefits it's brought on PCs over the years. While virtual ram is no panacea, it actually does help and can allow to overcome some limitations, specially in a standard hardware configuration. You can't do that without an HDD.

[Grovestreet]

Can someone give me a link to the Fatal Inertia Official site? I want to check something.

[curryking1]

Since then we have seen a GTA style game that has had flying in it and done well. That quote is very outdated and was made prior to the launch of the 360 (if I believe right).

Just Cause does not need to stream in nearly as much content as Saints Row either with a bunch of repetitive textures, foliage and road making up most of the area in Just Cause. The streaming wouldn't work without the HDD and that is why it was left out in Saints Row, they didn't want the pop in.

[woundingchaney]

Again, that's not the point. The point is that two identical systems will never perform as good as the other one as long as one of them has a feature the other doesn't and the software actually takes full advantage of it in ways only possible on the fully-featured system. Think of virtual ram and the benefits it's brought on PCs over the years. While virtual ram is no panacea, it actually does help and can allow to overcome some limitations, specially in a standard hardware configuration. You can't do that without an HDD.

Yes thats what Im saying. Which is also why the HDD has such a high attach rate. If you want the benefits of the hdd you have to purchase one seperately if you bought the core system.

[woundingchaney]

Just Cause does not need to stream in nearly as much content as Saints Row either with a bunch of repetitive textures, foliage and road making up most of the area in Just Cause. The streaming wouldn't work without the HDD and that is why it was left out in Saints Row, they didn't want the pop in.

True although streaming foliage can be much more intensive than streaming buildings and city scapes. If I had to guess what the major difference is, its that Just Cause uses procedural generation/synthesis (LOL cant remember the term).

[rpgamer_2k5]

Meh..these games are not much. They'll be the ones we'll see sold used a week later, bleeding the developers at a rapid rate. Honestly we need to see better quality than this on the Xbox 360, at least Mistwalker and maybe Rare can do something right. :)