Who do you Want to win the console Wars?

[OmniCloud]

We've done a ton of speculating on who "might" or who "should" win the console wars. We've speculated on the pros and cons of each system, how big motion control was, who's expanding the market, and what platform will offer the best gaming experience overall. While we won't know the answers to most of these questions until next year and beyond, I don't remember a thread specifically about what platform users actually WANT to win the console war. Members that post regularly have no doubt picked up on each other's preference, but it'll be interesting to see why we hold each console particularly close to our hearts.

No doubt the games are probably the number one reason fans are fans. For me however, I would love to see PS3 on top once again even if not by as much of a margin as the PS2. Sony definitely is off to a slow start, and many of there promises aren't fulfilled. Yet I feel that the system shows how much effort they put into PS3. Sony packed a bunch of tech into the system that we may or may not need, but it is there, and it is truly up to the consumers which technology if not all is taking advantage of by how many PS3's we buy and what we use it for.

The PC/Hybrid thing is really intriguing. And the idea of having 2 or 3 computers in the house thanks in part to your PS3 is a HUGE plus for a system labeled as "videogame console." Much of the online is still not revealed, but downloadable content and Phil's promise of user created content can't be bad, most importantly, like it should be-it's free. All in all, I think Sony shoved a bunch of dough into a system to please not only fans, but to maybe get some different people to get involved into the system. I'm almost pretty sure that the green light for motion control wasn't green until Nintendo's debut, but they still put the thing in there to enhance games, and I think it will pay off in the user experience. Overall, I think Sony deserves my dollar. The PS3 is by far the most feature heavy system ever released, and software has a great looking future. I wouldn't mind one bit if they "won" again.

Although I would like Sony to have the most market share, I wouldn't mind if Nintendo is considered the "winner" of this generation either. Admittedly, 2 or 3 years from now I'll probably get tired of looking at the Wii's graphics but the controller definitely lives up to Nintendo's codename "Revolution." It amazingly immerses you into the experience so that I forgot I had a controller in my hand! I truly think this is the future of games. The Wii-mote is definitely a must-have experience that the PS3's pad only touches on with a few games. (Flow/MotorStorm/Lair) Just look at Sony's announcement about firmware that will offer "interactive controller schemes." Nintendo hit the nail on the head when they offered up the answer for the question "what's next for gaming." In my book, they deserve a number#1 spot this generation but not too far because they didn't invest as heavily as Sony did in the tech. The complete package for the Wii unfortunately doesn't seem as complete as the PS3 to me. The controller more than makes up for where the Wii falls short on the technical/feature side though. And for that, Well Nintendo gets my vote and my $1000 for the system and games I'll be buying over the next few years.

LOL...I know some users are probably just waiting for me to lash out on 360. Honestly though, for some, it should be expected. I think many of us "Sony" guys feel the same way "Nintendo" guys feel about Sony. We don't deny its a great system, but it's more of "meh" than a must-have product. The software looks to be an extension of what they were doing last gen-which focuses on Western style games. (FPS/Action/FPS-Action-RPG-Hybrids...lol) That might be perfectly fine for some users, but for me, I never liked Star Wars, and a lot of games coming to 360 exclusively eerily reminds me of that series. The whole space/galaxy/alien thing doesn't work for me. And I can honestly say once again that the only game that I might wish to have on PS3 is Halo. But software aside, I just don't think MS deserves to have the spotlight in the gaming world.

MS has shipped a powerful console no doubt. I won't deny that they have invested some serious dough into the 360. The media capabilities are great, and the standard OS (blades) are really easy to use. The only real "push" I see that MS did overall though is streamline online game playing. Live is great, but I'm 19 with a full-time job, I don't have time to have 8hr game sessions all day long with a headset hooked on to me. Overall it just seems like MS peered into the market, got a few developers to make a big game, and paid a few others to join the club. As a gamer, I can't respect that. Does it make sense business wise? Sure. Is it healthy to have more competition? Of course. Do I think MS deserves to be the number 1 console when they simply audited and remapped strategies of previous companies? Not in the least.

I don't think its a question of where Sony got many of there ideas from. The first Playstation was only a result of Nintendo pulling away from a "System-merger" with Sony anyway. Nintendo may have pioneered many of the ideas that Sony produced, but I think Sony really pushed the "cool" factor for games and made the industry more appealing to more people. Just reading the thread about purist games vs. Hollywoodization (is that a word) is a testament to Sony's influence. MS seems to have basically taken this Sony approach and ran with it. There isn't 3 types of categories for the industry, but there are 3 consoles to choose from. There's the feature rich/crazy graphics system with a little of taste of simple/pickup and play games. And there's the simple, pickup and play system, with a few games that will have you using all your wits and motion control skills to progress. Where's the other type of gaming? Doesn't exist. Why? Cause one of the three companies didn't distinguish themselves enough. Even early on with the PS1/N64 Era, there were still those games that my sister and I could play together like Mario Kart. MS hasn't done enough for me to respect them as gaming company. I think Live is awesome, but the core gameplay is just too close for my taste. I think part of the reason PS2 was so successful was because it furthered the Hollywood style games while offering purist games as well as the system matured. There was something for everyone and no other console could really say "we have a different/better experience on this platform." Excuse my fanboyism but for me PSWii is the place to be this gen...ur thoughts as always, is great appreciated...

[Diresu]

I want the market share to be very close with Sony having a slight lead at least. Competition is good and it will do us good but I don't want MS in the lead.

[Smokey]

sony.......................peace :)

[Fillibuster]

Good post, this has been my major beef all along. Simply pumping a new box full of more graphics power after 4 years isn't innovation to me. NExt gen media? Full (native) high definition? Motion Control? That's innovation. I just don't think there was any thought put into the Xbox 1.5 other than "How much money can we possible make off of FPS?"

[VG Aficionado]

Shouldn't this be in general gaming? You know the reply you're going to get here most times. Anyway, this kind of topics are bound to bring trouble.

[EvilTaru]

Sony to win big, best scenario for anyone who's a PS3 owner, not to mention best scenario for exclusive titles over multiplatform ones, and multiplatform titles will simply NOT look or run as well as exclusive ones as we move forward barring a few notible exceptions, we simply won't see multiplatform games like Motorstorm with as much attention to details and overall performance, but instead a lot of multiplatform franchise rehashes, the performance gap will only increase between big exclusive titles and multiplatform titles and I would like the situation to favor exclusive titles, quite frankly. More titles like Motorstorm and Heavenly Sword, and fewer Need for Speed and Tony Hawk.

[Nameless]

Honestly, I would like to see the market expand and all three experience profits and success... I respect Sony for blazing a new path and packing all the high tech toys in the PS3, but I like the idea of a true competitor in Microsoft to keep Sony honest. I would not mind if Nintendo took Sega's approach and became a 3rd party developer...

I'm sure my response is not a surprise, because I'm truely a hardcore gamer I show no loyalty to one specific platform... Peace

[Garfunkel]

at first i thought this topic needed to be locked but your post makes perfect sense. Very good.

I don't want Ms to win, that is the last thing i want. I have no respect for them as a company and they can go to hell for all i care.

I would like a perfect split between wii and the ps3. and in 5 years the market has advanced to the point that there are 150 million each sold.

[masteratt]

PS3/Nintendo Wii to win obviously.

X360 still bores the hell out of me (yes, my bro has one and i play every game he buys so dont say "lol how u know if u dont have one") with no exciting games coming or a very few good games popping out here and there. I told you guys if MS keeps buying games, these boring games will keep on getting released. You can't buy imagination (note how most 3rd party devs who only work for Sony say "we have a good relationship with Sony and we enjoy working with them").

It's also starting to feel really out-dated with it's shaky DVD drive (where the PS3 and Wii sucks the disc in) and lack of...well, anything really. You have a USB port which hardly recognises anything and the stupid controllers running on battery like it's the 80s.
You can just 'feel' the lack of love on the X360. Nothing to get excited about on the console which is not what i want form "next gen".
Xbox 1.5? You called it Sony.

MS clearly had no idea what they were doing. I can imagine them sitting in their board room just looking at each other going "errr....do we need to update the graphics?" "who cares dammit, just slow down Sony!" They went in with dirty tactics and with not much knowledge and I feel it shows in the product.

I still hate them for bringing out this "WE GIVE YOU CHOICE!" marketing crap. The whole point of a console is you buy ONE machine and that's it! You giving us choice means the machine itself is not the best it can be and it's our choice to make it truly next-gen by paying extra money. No thanks. I rather buy the PS3 and not spend another penny on the console (exluding software of course) until PS4 and beyond. And the PS3 will still feel fresh where I feel MS will need a new Xbox in a year.

Nintendo Wii? Take the crown if you must :thumpsup: As long as Sony is following closely behind that is ;)

VG was right about this thread but we should be allowed to LOGICALLY diss the competition on the PS boards :angel:

(it's 2am and i am sorry about this)

[frosty]

Us.

[Grovestreet]

Microsoft and their 360.

[Chris]

I'd like to see Nintendo win personally, but I still intend to get all the current consoles at some point, and I'm sure that the same will be true for the next-generation.

[OG_Monkey]

Ps3

[curryking1]

I want to see the same market share wise for the PS3. 60% was sweet. I only had a PS2 and the gaming was ridiculously good. My reason is obviously because I will only have the PS3 in the coming generation.

Well, actually what I REALLY want though, is to see the PS3 sell 120 million (same as PS1), the X360 to improve to 50 million, and the Wii to go insane. Seriously, I see the Wii as the only system that will significantly expand the market.

[julps31]

Of couse i wanna see PS3 on top but don't really wanna see any console bomb. Like nameless said competition is always a good thing and wouldn't be any fun with just one lol (but I think we'd all agree with that). I like the idea of each consoles having distinctive differences compared to the next that gives you reason to own it (exclusives, features, ect).

[raVen]

I want Sony to barely win because in a way they have been getting arrogant I want the to sit back at the end of all this and say we need a new strategy.

[julps31]

I still hate them for bringing out this "WE GIVE YOU CHOICE!" marketing crap. The whole point of a console is you buy ONE machine and that's it! You giving us choice means the machine itself is not the best it can be and it's our choice to make it truly next-gen by paying extra money. No thanks. I rather buy the PS3 and not spend another penny on the console (exluding software of course) until PS4 and beyond. And the PS3 will still feel fresh where I feel MS will need a new Xbox in a year.Yea every time somebody says that I always say, the blu-ray drive is as big a part of the hardware as the Cell and the RSX. And the price reflects that. Whereas the HD-dvd addon would not be considered a part of the hardware since it can't be used for games. So I think people need to stop all that "microsoft gave us a choice" bull crap.

[speed stick]

Good post, this has been my major beef all along. Simply pumping a new box full of more graphics power after 4 years isn't innovation to me. NExt gen media? Full (native) high definition? Motion Control? That's innovation. I just don't think there was any thought put into the Xbox 1.5 other than "How much money can we possible make off of FPS?"

Yeah thats a good one. Real innovative points....

[Zer0-Sum]

The Gamers.....

[Pluto]

I don't think there's any doubting that Sony isn't going to win the war.

The real factors of the war are how much they won by, and who was the best competitor.

[Garfunkel]

microsoft contradicts themselves too much, the choice argument is stupid because that isn't exactly what they have done in any markets they have been successful in. Yes sony is arrogant, we all know that but to say that ms is not is ludicrous. What i'd like is for ms to just die and let companies with morals take up their position, like other electronic/tech companies. I would love to see an all out war between matsushita/lg/sony/samsung and ninty, companies that aren't just in there to support their evil monopolies.

And they also contradicted themselves when they talk about how the ps3 isn't a game machine - the hd-dvd add on isn't used for games, doesn't benefit the GAMER. Yet Sony's BD does as it expands content FOR games and experiences IN games.

I wish ms would just crawl into a hole and died, the world would be so much better without them and their evil fuc**ng monopoly.

[Dwhitten]

I want Nintendo to win.

[masteratt]

^Honestly can't argue with that [yes_It's_Me's post........although there is no argument against Ninty winning either so perhaps the edit wasn't necessary].

There is no bias about it. Microsoft is here to take over the world.
I would love to see anyone try and argue other wise. The only good thing anyone can say is "microsoft brings competition to other companies so we benefit" Yes but you benefit because the other company improves, not because Microsoft's product is superior.

In this particular case, yes maybe in fact the PS3 *IS* more powerful thanks to competition from X360 and maybe yes PS3 is cheaper thanks to X360 but that doesn't mean it's better to play Microsoft's X360 as Sony's PS3 is the product that's improving and once again, you don't get much from the Microsoft product.

I am looking forward to how Zune turns out. MS is way too late. Everyone I know (literally) owns an Apple iPod and ones who don't are talking of buying one. Let's see how MS handles that case.

[speed stick]

I wish ms would just crawl into a hole and died, the world would be so much better without them and their evil fuc**ng monopoly.

You really believe that.....Microsoft brought alot to the world. I'm not relating this to the xbox but they have really done alot.

[Garfunkel]

You really believe that.....Microsoft brought alot to the world. I'm not relating this to the xbox but they have really done alot.

"cough bullshit cough"

seriously, the only good about microsoft is their charity, bill gates will give almost everything to charity, but don't believe for a second that they are not trying to take over the world, it's like they are a screaming little rich toddler-brat in a supermarket, if they don't have something they will kick and scream and carry on until you give it to them, or someone slaps them in the face! Which thankfully a lot of people are doing these days.

[Pluto]

^

You're a little..extreme.

People could argue that Sony's PSP was a way for them to make profit just like you're using the example of Microsoft entering it for lucrative purposes.

They made a console that people buy. If it was half as bad as you're making it out to be, it wouldn't be around.

[Negativity]

You're a joke for the simple fact that you believe Microsoft is trying to take over the world, yet you fail to create laughter.

Edit: Not the person directly above me.

By the way, Frosty said what I was thinking: us.

[Hrama]

Phantom.

[Pluto]

Phantom.

Haha.

That tombstone was engraved ages ago. :evillaugh

[OmniCloud]

hahahah...I thought I was the only one who hates MS! Seriously though, my disapproval only extends to MS gaming division, Windows/PC market/zune and whatever they do is fine by me. I will support Linux because I think user created content is the future but MS has done some great things for the PC world. And I agree with Masteratt on the competition thing. MS isn't forcing Sony or Nintendo to really change there plan, there just trying to "Smooch" off of there ideas and when it all comes down to it, the other consoles will be better on their own not because of any fear of losing consumers. I'm a hardcore gamer as well, And I seriously doubt I will miss out on any gaming experience that I won't be able to have on PS3 or Wii. Great post guys..keep em coming...

[Applefiend]

Gizmondo. World full of people, with GPS receivers so they never get lost, cameras to take photos of crime, and the finest advertising, delivered to their handhelds mid game so they never spend too much time gaming. We can make it happen people...

You may say I'm a dreamer. but I'm not the only one.


...


...


Sony actually, good value system and it's taken me 10 years to learn where triangle square x and circle are and it's too late in life to change. :) And if it helps Blu Ray to win all the better. Best storage capacity, best transfer rates. And what's good for PS3 is good for Linux. Having an OS that's popular and open source would be great, and have an impact on your liberty. Governments will find it a little harder to track what you do online when you can read the source code of your OS.

And yeah, the PS2 is the best system since the SNES, so screw all the negativity.

But yeah, love for 360 to fail. Hate how suddenly paying 50 bucks a year to play PC ports online suddenly makes you l33t. Screw all that. And screw the XBot FUD police. 360 is the most conservative dullest console out. It amazes me how desperate some people are to see Microsoft have a monopoly over desktop, handheld, mobile and console. It's worse than soviet russia, competition is what's best for gamers. As long as Wii and PS3 do well it's all good. Nintendo deserve to do well, most innovative company out there.

I can't understand why people root for Microsoft. It's like cheering on the Borg.

Microsoft are in the business for making you pay for things that should be free.

And Nintendo with Wii. They're for games that light up parties, retro, innovation, and gameplay over graphics, and widening the market. God bless them.

[pari]

I am an ABMer, that pretty much answers the question. I prefer either Nintendo or Sony, Sony winning followed by Nintendo and at last 360.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

i really want nintendo win to prove a point to sony and microsoft. if the other 2 were to prevail this generation, we will see a lack of innovation in the future and just keep getting beefed up hardware and paying $2000 for videogame consoles. i want them to look at nintendo and use them as a building block in a way.

After that, I want to see 360 succeed because:
1. Although they did copy a lot of the basic building blocks of video game consoles and controllers, they do come up with cool new beneficial ways to help the video game market reach out to consumers... just look at xbox live currently. And with future integrations with your pc, cell phones, etc. things could get interesting.
2. It could perhaps boost support for HDDVD.
3. Its an american company. It would be good for our economy.:)

Im really tired of sony winning. not until they deserve it at least. (no offense)

[Ethan]

I actually hope they all do equally well, but what's with the Microsoft hate, Yes_It's_Me? Oh I know! You've got Linux in your eyes! ;)

[IEatFriedPikmin]

sony is just on the moral path of righteousness, and microsoft isnt. thats all. all microsoft wants is money and your souls.

[Negativity]

Yes because these companies all entered with the idea of making people smile rather than making money.

[dork]

gameboi pwnz j00 n00bers

[Ethan]

"Capitalism generally refers to an economic system in which the means of production are mostly privately or corporately owned and operated for profit, in which investment is determined by private decision, and in which distribution, production and pricing of goods and services are determined in a largely free market. Land, capital goods, consumer goods, and labor may all be traded in a capitalist system. The term also refers to several theories that developed in the context of the Industrial Revolution and the Cold War meant to explain, justify, or critique the private ownership of capital; to explain the operation of capitalistic markets; and to guide the application or elimination of government regulation of property and markets. (See economics, political economy, laissez-faire.)"

Glad this never caught on.

[Garfunkel]

You're a joke for the simple fact that you believe Microsoft is trying to take over the world, yet you fail to create laughter.

Edit: Not the person directly above me.

By the way, Frosty said what I was thinking: us.

????

[Garfunkel]

Yes because these companies all entered with the idea of making people smile rather than making money.

since where in my post did i say anything along those lines???

[Garfunkel]

I actually hope they all do equally well, but what's with the Microsoft hate, Yes_It's_Me? Oh I know! You've got Linux in your eyes! ;)

oh? and it is a problem now to use Linux instead of Windoze?

what? am i a communist because i use linux?

[Ethan]

Exactly the reaction I was looking for. :pinky:

It's because you champion Linux as the end-all-be-all PC platform through and Microsoft as some sort of Anti-Christ. All of this is being said in a very fanboyish way. In other words, yes, you are a Communist.

By the way what is this "Windoze"? :shifty:

[Negativity]

since where in my post did i say anything along those lines???

It wasn't you.

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

I'm an equal opportunity hater, and I know somebody is going to say "FANB0!", or some shizz, but I want SONY to lead. I'm a technocrat, an elitist, and I like my technology at the cutting-edge. I think Nintendo half-assed the hardware this time, though in terms of fun, right now, they're mopping up both SONY and MS, and I think MS busted ass to make it to market as fast as possible with the 360, not because the consumer wanted a new system so soon, but because they wanted to catch SONY off guard and IMO, not to beat them in the console market, but to remove them entirely. MS does not want to compete, they want to own the market completely, and when they do, if they do, the whole thing will stagnate.

I say pants to that shit right now.

[dork]

Honestly, as much as I love Nintendo, I have no doubt Sony will be on top in the end.

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

Exactly the reaction I was looking for. :pinky:

It's because you champion Linux as the end-all-be-all PC platform through and Microsoft as some sort of Anti-Christ. All of this is being said in a very fanboyish way. In other words, yes, you are a Communist.

By the way what is this "Windoze"? :shifty:

Know your facts.

Linux is one of the few OSes at the moment that constantly evolves - That is why it is ONE of the be-all-end-all OSes lurking about.

It is owned by nobody, is available freely, and development is open.
It is not perfect, but such is evolution - Atleast Linux has evolution.

Microsoft - Microsoft is the cute, cuddley, mega corporation that tries to absorb every industry they think they should own, regardless of if or not they are any good at said market. They're notorious for illegally procuring and buying out smaller, rival companies, simply for the purpose of eradicating opposition. You can look that up, if you wish, and there are lawsuits that go along with them. The point there is they have no intention of sharing any market with anyone; they wish to attain monopoly status everywhere they deem to be their territory. They're notorious for not cooperating with legal investigations into their shady practices, and notorious for allowing markets to stagnate technologically, because they're the only competitor. They're notorious for fixing markets and creating catch 22 scenarios that make choice virtually impossible (see attempts to bankrupt Apple corporation in the past).

There's your cuddley MS... All companies are shady and all have the occasional, semi-illegal, or blatantly-illegal cut-throat tactic, but not all of them rely upon them to create a static, outmoded, obsolete market.

Now before your rebuttal, I'm an analyst, not a fan of one company or another. My statements are based on documented materials, that though not all well known, are freely available to anybody willing to dig for them.


Dio


Note for YIM: Am I the only one that finds it odd that MS recently sued Novell (I think it was them), citing illegal inclusion of Microsoft, proprietary source code/intellectual property within Linux - Source code/Intellectual property that they refuse to disclose (because it would allow anybody savvy enough to pinpoint its time of submission) - Source code which may have been deliberately placed within Linux by an MS employee to get not just Novell Linux users, but Linux users in general into a heap of trouble? I find that to be slightly disturbing.

[Garfunkel]

Exactly the reaction I was looking for. :pinky:

It's because you champion Linux as the end-all-be-all PC platform through and Microsoft as some sort of Anti-Christ. All of this is being said in a very fanboyish way. In other words, yes, you are a Communist.

By the way what is this "Windoze"? :shifty:

err... You do know that Linux is owned by nobody making it about as far away from communism as possible didn't you?

[Ethan]

I'm sorry but what I'm saying is that people come off sounding like smug assholes when they claim Linux is the best and that Microsoft "r teh suxorz cuz they steel stuffz and want to maek muneyz." Vica versa.

Also, do you believe that all companies, besides though devils at Microcrap, don't want a monopoly on their market, or at least a greatly significant lead over all other competitors?

The Communist statement was for comic relief. Who actually takes being called a Communist as an insult?

[Zeep]

Wii 1st, MS 2nd, Sony 3rd.

Nintendo is the only one that's ACTUALLY trying to expand the market. The other two just took those ideas and tried to make it sound like they were doing the same thing ("Better graphix expands the market! lolol")

As for MS and Sony, normally i wouldn't really care, but Sony needs to get taken down a peg. All this "Next gen doesn't start till we say it starts" bullshit. Guess what, sony? It started last fucking year and you're already hundreds of thousands of units behind even the wii which launched AFTER you.

remember kutaragi's PSP crap? "You don't criticize an amazing architect because of the placement of the gate" or whatever the fuck he said? the moment any major figure in the industry can say shit like that with a straight face, they need to be taught a serious lesson.

[Garfunkel]

Note for YIM: Am I the only one that finds it odd that MS recently sued Novell (I think it was them), citing illegal inclusion of Microsoft, proprietary source code/intellectual property within Linux - Source code/Intellectual property that they refuse to disclose (because it would allow anybody savvy enough to pinpoint its time of submission) - Source code which may have been deliberately placed within Linux by an MS employee to get not just Novell Linux users, but Linux users in general into a heap of trouble? I find that to be slightly disturbing.

they didn't sue novell, they are (trying) to sue the linux community for "copywrite infringement" (read my sig) They have no leg to stand on of course because if they had any cards they would have sued long ago, also the fact that windows is closed sourse and that linux is open means that nobody is technically at fault. If they sued they would be forced to open the code to windows, which hell would freeze over before that happened.

They tried to do this before by supporting SCO, which was humiliated in a court battle with the linux community and IBM, the judge literally laughed at them, MS lost a hell of a lot of money funding something that was barely go to trial. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061130-8325.html

In retaliation to their defeat, microsoft teamed up with novell because they know that eventually Linux wil get supported on the desktop - much like it already is on the server, they want to team up with novell because they want think that Linux users "owe" them a balance sheet liability for "their innovation" (what innovation???). This deal basically says that they will not sue each other's users for using alternative operating systems.

this is the press release:
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9005171&source=rss_topic88
and some more info:
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/node/1879

What on earth has ms innovated? it almost sounds like sarcasm to me, what do they think that tabbed browsing in ie7 was their idea? do they think that the gui was their idea?

Anyway, ms is about to hit a very nasty snag of they are stupid enough to take this to court

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

Apparently they did -attempt- to sue Novell, however Novell I believe countered and both payed eachother a large chunk of change to well, not sue eachothers' users. Making all Novell Linux versions "Legal" and all others, suspect, otherwise. You are right though, we just use different words (mine, happening to be a horrible version of English).

This is just another example for the rest of em, though. IF there's any MS source code in Linux, they aren't disclosing which lines, and if they did, and if it really is in there somewhere, in some version of Linux, I have a terrible suspiscion that the person who added it was an MS employee, being directed by MS brass. I think they could have orchestrated this on purpose to confine Linux, or to ideally illegalize it. They just have the track reccord, that leads me to believe this is so.

[Garfunkel]

Apparently they did -attempt- to sue Novell, however Novell I believe countered and both payed eachother a large chunk of change to well, not sue eachothers' users. Making all Novell Linux versions "Legal" and all others, suspect, otherwise. You are right though, we just use different words (mine, happening to be a horrible version of English).

This is just another example for the rest of em, though. IF there's any MS source code in Linux, they aren't disclosing which lines, and if they did, and if it really is in there somewhere, in some version of Linux, I have a terrible suspiscion that the person who added it was an MS employee, being directed by MS brass. I think they could have orchestrated this on purpose to confine Linux, or to ideally illegalize it. They just have the track reccord, that leads me to believe this is so.

just looked it up, yeah they did try to sue them but it ended up like you said.

The funny thing is they would need ot open their code for the stuff they believed we "stole",

But yeah, i would not be surprised if it was an ms employee who placed it in there if there was any infringement. It is just the sort of company ms is.

In any case, if this got to court, they would be humiliated again, just like poor little sco.

This is kinda like how ms is trying to sue "viodentia" (a hacker who devised a way around their shoddy drm). Although ms can't do anything because they have no idea who "viodentia" is, they want to force him - in court - to open up his hack so ms know exactly how to counteract because at the moment they are stabbing in the dark.

this is why closed source is a headache, i hope never to get involved with it.

[kaphwan]

"Better graphix expands the market! lolol"

So, when Sony sold 100 million units, they weren't expanding the market?

The other two just took those ideas and tried to make it sound like they were doing the same thing

This is just like saying "The Wii takes the Eyetoy and builds a console around it". It's absurd.

There are points I've brought to the table before regarding things Sony does/did bring to the games industry, but I get the most inane rebuttals.

"Blu-Ray is just greater storage capacity. We should all keep using cartridges because the gamer has NO use for greater storage."

"Sony is evil for making mature games. The only good games are series which that Miya-whatever guy thought of decades ago and now have at least three types of mini-golf game apiece. Everything else TAINTS THE INDUSTRY with it's ADULT THEMES and storyline. All we needed to know was that [x] was saving his/her girlfriend or significant other in some distant land.. hey, let's jump onto that platform OMG A COIN NOW THIS IS GAMING."

"Two analog sticks, and doubled shoulder buttons? Nintendo had a patent on analog input devices and putting buttons on the side of a controller, how dare Sony steal! And since Microsoft doesn't have dominant market share we won't bitch about how they did the same thing... or even that they took the AB buttons from the N64 controller."

"When a console is graphically the most capable, it must therefore have the poorest gaming! When a console has uses besides gaming, it's gaming capabilities become lesser! Physics engines? Why would you need that in a driving simulator?"

Most importantly.

"If a console has limited sales because of supply issues, and people have been killed in disputes over who has said console... that console has no real demand and is doomed to fail. This totally isn't exactly what happened with the PlayStation2."

Who do I want to win? I don't care. I bought my PS2 because Final Fantasy was on it, and that's why I'll eventually buy a PS3. Every other factor is incidental.

[pari]

Exactly the reaction I was looking for. :pinky:

It's because you champion Linux as the end-all-be-all PC platform through and Microsoft as some sort of Anti-Christ. All of this is being said in a very fanboyish way. In other words, yes, you are a Communist.

By the way what is this "Windoze"? :shifty:

I think you are one who is confused by communist and capitalist. In communism its everything is people owned (ie government owned) and nobody can make money. How exactly would people make from Windows? Other than MS I do not see anybody making money from windows and windows is controlled by one company ie MS (just like in communist country). Monopoly is synonym with communism in one way

Now capitalism believes in thriving competition where manufacturers compete to produce goods that the consumers want to buy. Because of this competitive nature, no one manufacturer can artificially increase price because other manufacturers see an opening to correct the imbalance. Now can you say this possible to do in the windows environment? Can any other company sell windows OS for lower price than MS? But this is possible in Linux OS, so Linux is much more capitalistic than MS.. Sorry to burst your bubble...

Money is made from Linux by service. Yes Linux is not owned by anybody like your Math and Science, Linux is knowledge. You pay for your Math tutor for the service rendered in teaching you calculus. Does your Math tutor alone own the Calculus? If your Math tutor charged you higher price and did not teach calculus properly would you still go to him, when another Math tutor teaches better for lower price or same price? Math is free, so is Math a communist?

[pari]

I'm sorry but what I'm saying is that people come off sounding like smug assholes when they claim Linux is the best and that Microsoft "r teh suxorz cuz they steel stuffz and want to maek muneyz." Vica versa.
Then do not make yourself an one..


Also, do you believe that all companies, besides though devils at Microcrap, don't want a monopoly on their market, or at least a greatly significant lead over all other competitors?

But exactly how many other companies have been convicted for unethical behavior of abusing their monopolistic power?



The Communist statement was for comic relief. Who actually takes being called a Communist as an insult?
Its not a comic relief, that was the statement used by Steve "Monkey" Ballmer to describe Linux and SCO in their stupid case against Linux/IBM

[IEatFriedPikmin]

Yes because these companies all entered with the idea of making people smile rather than making money.

sorry, i was being sarcastic.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

So, when Sony sold 100 million units, they weren't expanding the market?


well not to females, older generations, and people who dont like to play video games in general.

the only games my sister would play before wii was dance dance revolution, donkey konga, and mario kart.

[Zeep]

Expanding the market =/= selling to more of the same people.

As for what sony bring to the industry, I never said anything about that. yeah, sony has brought some things that other companies were more hesitant to adopt. but the fact of the matter is that having a storage medium that can store a trillion terabytes still won't do you any good without a controller and some buttons.

[Phoenix]

Nintendo, so then the medium can be driven by more than just technological power alone.

[kaphwan]

well not to females, older generations, and people who dont like to play video games in general.

Uhh... EyeToy? SingStar? Buzz? It isn't produced in-house like the others... but Guitar Hero?

I know plenty of people who bought PS2s just to play these games. This is what we call expanding the market. I'm not saying Nintendo isn't going to expand the market as well, but I'm sick of hearing that Sony only ever does the same thing, for the same people, and that Nintendo is the saviour of the industry, only hope for innovation, blah blah ad infinitum. It's, as I said, absurd.

having a storage medium that can store a trillion terabytes still won't do you any good without a controller and some buttons.

Thanks for pointing out that if Sony expends a huge amount of money and research.. taking those huge risks that are only considered huge risks when Nintendo do them... and integrates a new storage format into a new console... then it means Sony might forget the controller and some buttons.

This might be a bit of blind faith on my part, but I'd think that even when they can't have vibration, Sony can probably find a way to include the controller and some buttons in future iterations of PlayStation.

[IEatFriedPikmin]

Uhh... EyeToy? SingStar? Buzz? It isn't produced in-house like the others... but Guitar Hero?

I know plenty of people who bought PS2s just to play these games. This is what we call expanding the market. I'm not saying Nintendo isn't going to expand the market as well, but I'm sick of hearing that Sony only ever does the same thing, for the same people, and that Nintendo is the saviour of the industry, only hope for innovation, blah blah ad infinitum. It's, as I said, absurd.


i dont think you can really argue that nintendo is more focused on bringing new people in since it is their main goal with the wii.


btw, the only games i have ever heard of on that list is eyetoy(which apparently sucks), and guitar hero(which rox).... just fyi. what the heck is buzz?

[venomv]

Anyone but MS.............

[Xer0]

Uhh... EyeToy? SingStar? Buzz? It isn't produced in-house like the others... but Guitar Hero?

The point she was trying to make is that, while the Video game market sells more and more each year, the actual available market isnt expanding, the same people are just buying more of it. From the 80's till today, the market has yet to actually expand.

I know plenty of people who bought PS2s just to play these games. This is what we call expanding the market. I'm not saying Nintendo isn't going to expand the market as well, but I'm sick of hearing that Sony only ever does the same thing, for the same people, and that Nintendo is the saviour of the industry, only hope for innovation, blah blah ad infinitum. It's, as I said, absurd.

Still, you cant directly compare the two, Nintendo's system is completely and totally catering to the non gamers, and its the only one that is. I mean at launch the Wii probably has more non gamer friendly games then the PS2 has had in its life (yea i know, i exagerated a little)


Thanks for pointing out that if Sony expends a huge amount of money and research.. taking those huge risks that are only considered huge risks when Nintendo do them... and integrates a new storage format into a new console... then it means Sony might forget the controller and some buttons.

The thing is, it doesnt change the way we play our games, it just lets devs pack the same games with more stuff.

As for the question, i dont care as long as three conditions are met;

1) The Wii out sells the PS3 through March since i have a hundred dollars on it

2) No one out right loses, just Nintendo comes out slightly on top (38/32/30 type of thing)

3) I get to somehow play another Jet Force Gemini game (Yea, it has no place here but i want one so bad)

[Phoenix]

This might be a bit of blind faith on my part, but I'd think that even when they can't have vibration, Sony can probably find a way to include the controller and some buttons in future iterations of PlayStation.Or they could just make another version of the controller with added features originally only used by competitors; they did it with the original Playstation.

[kaphwan]

i dont think you can really argue [against the standpoint] that nintendo is more focused on bringing new people in since it is their main goal with the wii.

I didn't say Sony was more focused than Nintendo. I didn't give any comparison on the two; all I'd said was that Sony has also brought innovations to the gaming industry.

Buzz! is a "quiz game show simulator", for lack of a better term. There are four that I know of, sports trivia, music trivia, general, etc. Must have been developed in Australia, because it's pretty big here. It uses those buzzer things from gameshows as controllers. Eyetoy is as fun as balls; if you bought a Wii it's well worth at least trying for yourself.

The point she was trying to make is that, while the Video game market sells more and more each year, the actual available market isnt expanding, the same people are just buying more of it. From the 80's till today, the market has yet to actually expand.

Put down the crackpipe. Home console gaming itself was a niche activity, only for little kids and nerds until PlayStation came out in the nineties. It brought gaming to the mainstream. You can argue all you like whether or not Sony is expanding the market now, but there's no denying that gaming was brought further to the mainstream through PlayStation games.

Still, you cant directly compare the two, Nintendo's system is completely and totally catering to the non gamers, and its the only one that is. I mean at launch the Wii probably has more non gamer friendly games then the PS2 has had in its life (yea i know, i exagerated a little)

Hey, guess what? I wasn't comparing the two in terms of innovation, neither directly nor indirectly. I'm presenting my case that PlayStation has had, and will always have, innovative gameplay features. As for 'non-gamer friendly games" (what a stupid paradox), you certainly did not "exaggerate a little", you exaggerated a lot.

Just last night, I was teaching PowerPoint to someone at their house and their wife was playing Shrek 2. She is the epitome of "non-gamer". Sony has a countless number of these games on their consoles; Viper has even correctly pointed out that Sony has a greater proportion of G-rated games out of the total than Nintendo.

The thing is, it doesnt change the way we play our games, it just lets devs pack the same games with more stuff.

So, by this logic, you could feasibly fit any Wii game onto the punchcards that computers first used. Because no new media has ever changed the way games are played, right?

Or they could just make another version of the controller with added features originally only used by competitors; they did it with the original Playstation.

I don't see anywhere that I can put a Rumble Pack in my original PlayStation analog controller. The only added features in the PS2 controller were pressure-sensitive buttons, which the gamecube later put in its controller. Nobody bothers pointing this out because it's irrelevant.


Edit: I'm editing this previous post, with an obvious breaker between what is old and what is new, so that this thread can just die because threads like this never lead to anything productive. I certainly don't want to bump this thread, no sir.

words, words, playstation was only bought by older genesis and sega users, more words

Since your PlayStations Sold number is out by about 30 million and the others are exaggerations, I can see see how your reality is a little different to everyone else's. Hence the 'crackpipe' comment. Put it down, man.

I might add that my purchase of a PlayStation, combined with my non-purchase of those other two systems you mentioned, refutes your argument. The other 24 million, 24 million being a bare minimum, refute your argument soundly.

Hey, guess what? I never said you were comparing them in terms of innovation. However, i find it funny how you go out of your way to mention that you never did compare the two on the basis of innovation, only to say that your case is that the Playstation had and will always have innovation. What?

Either way, innovative games does not mean games that will cater to the non gamers and i dont know why you are using the two interchangably.


Let's see here.

Still, you cant directly compare the two, blah blah Nintendo is the only non gamer gaming system. That isn't a contradiction in terms

I was talking about using innovative games to expand the market, to counter your point about how Sony only ever releases the same games ever, to the same people. Since you responded saying "you can't directly compare the two", this means you're implying that I was comparing the two. In innovation, because innovation was the only thing I'd mentioned in that part of my post.

My point, like I said, was that both companies have brought innovation to the industry but Sony's contributions are marginalised by Nintendo fanboys, most probably bitter about "their" console's lack of market dominance since forever. It would be nice if Wii did come out on top just to see if anyone sees through automatically giving Nintendo the higher moral ground in all cases of everything.

What games? Terrible terrible linscense games that make a mokary of what we like? Thats exactly what Shrek 2 is. Its not a game thats ment to draw new people in, hell, its not a game thats ment to even resemble fun, its just there to make a quick buck.

Oh, wow, a game based on a movie must automatically be shit in your books. Keep your elitist attitude and forget that the person in question was indeed having fun with the game, which is the WHOLE POINT OF A GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE. In any case, that was an example of appealing to the casual gamer. There are other, non-movie based games but I thought of one off the top of my head. Your quick dismissal of a game I added speaks volumes of how quickly you'll chose to not see examples of things Sony brings to the industry. Congratulations, you're a fanboy.

Okay then please, list me the ways that Blu-ray or HD-DVD will affect the way that we play games from what we currently have now. It wont besides making the game prettier and letting devs put more stuff in the game. The game will be played the same exact way.

Faster Loading Times Scratch-Proof Layers Ability to place 10 DVD's worth of back catalogue games on one disc (I'm thinking FF: I-X would be a killer bundle for Square to make, and there is a goldmine of other series) No need to worry about disc change Greater Immersion. Playing Pong, you do not actually think you are there. There are games which do this now with the aid of photo-realistic images.

[Delirious]

The way I see it the Wii and the PS3 will battle for dominance for quite some time, with the 360 playing catchup. But in the end it really depends on alot of factors which we cannot predict right now so I will not pick a final winner yet. *coughningendocough*

[Xer0]

Put down the crackpipe. Home console gaming itself was a niche activity, only for little kids and nerds until PlayStation came out in the nineties. It brought gaming to the mainstream. You can argue all you like whether or not Sony is expanding the market now, but there's no denying that gaming was brought further to the mainstream through PlayStation games.

All the Playstation did was keep the kids that grew up with their SNES and Genesis and wanted something more mature and cool. It kept the gamers gaming baisically. The PS1 sold like what, 70 million units? The SNES alone sold 50 million and the Genesis like 30 million, back in the day when everyone had only one console for the most part. So these guys grew up and they wanted blood, guns, and sex and there you have the Playstation. All it did was keep gamers in. Sure, it did attracte new people, but its not like the market exploded like your making it seem.

Hey, guess what? I wasn't comparing the two in terms of innovation, neither directly nor indirectly. I'm presenting my case that PlayStation has had, and will always have, innovative gameplay features. As for 'non-gamer friendly games" (what a stupid paradox), you certainly did not "exaggerate a little", you exaggerated a lot.

Hey, guess what? I never said you were comparing them in terms of innovation. However, i find it funny how you go out of your way to mention that you never did compare the two on the basis of innovation, only to say that your case is that the Playstation had and will always have innovation. What?

Either way, innovative games does not mean games that will cater to the non gamers and i dont know why you are using the two interchangably.

Just last night, I was teaching PowerPoint to someone at their house and their wife was playing Shrek 2. She is the epitome of "non-gamer". Sony has a countless number of these games on their consoles; Viper has even correctly pointed out that Sony has a greater proportion of G-rated games out of the total than Nintendo.

What games? Terrible terrible linscense games that make a mokary of what we like? Thats exactly what Shrek 2 is. Its not a game thats ment to draw new people in, hell, its not a game thats ment to even resemble fun, its just there to make a quick buck.

So, by this logic, you could feasibly fit any Wii game onto the punchcards that computers first used. Because no new media has ever changed the way games are played, right?

Okay then please, list me the ways that Blu-ray or HD-DVD will affect the way that we play games from what we currently have now. It wont besides making the game prettier and letting devs put more stuff in the game. The game will be played the same exact way.

[venomv]

All the Playstation did was keep the kids that grew up with their SNES and Genesis and wanted something more mature and cool. It kept the gamers gaming baisically. The PS1 sold like what, 70 million units? The SNES alone sold 50 million and the Genesis like 30 million, back in the day when everyone had only one console for the most part. So these guys grew up and they wanted blood, guns, and sex and there you have the Playstation. All it did was keep gamers in. Sure, it did attracte new people, but its not like the market exploded like your making it seem.

Try again..........

SNES 49 million
Genisis 29 million
Total 78 Million

PS1 102.5 Million
N64 33 Million
Sega Saturn 10 Million
Total 145.5 Million

Almost double sold, and I don't think it was Sega or Nintendo........

And might as well through this in too, showing that the number didn't grow too much over the last one.
PS2 111.25 Million
GC 21 Million (seems too low though)
XBox 24 Million
Dreamcast 10 Million (I'm sure over 90% bought a second system, so it almost shouldn't be counted)
Total 166.25 Million

[Tanner]

I would have to say Microsoft. (yikes) But i just think they got most of it right this time.

[frosty]

Well, they have a lot of work to do without too many killer AAA titles to compete with 2 platforms that are loaded to the teeth with them, and seeing as how the competition has already captured a sizeable chunk of their market share in only a month.

[Applefiend]

http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/06/12/13/019241.shtml

^^^ Read the comments.

I have no problems with liking Halo, Ninja Gaiden and Gears, although I've stopped pretending I like Bioware RPGs, and understand that Microsoft are bad for whatever market they enter, and bad for the consumers. They enter a market, run the competition out of business by unfair practices, then ramp the prices up. Charge you for things you thought were for free. Competition is a fine thing, Microsoft aren't in the business of competing.

Just as long as the crazy guys putting out the lies and the FUD realise what you're doing... I understand the enthusiasm for the 360 games and the console, but the company... Man I don't get it.

[Viper]

I want us to win.

[koten]

This thread did exactly what I expected. And that was turn into a lot of flaming and several ridiculously long posts about why Person A is right and Person B is a "fucking idiot"

Close this thread.

[Carlos]

PlayStation 3 for the same reasons kap mentioned about Blu Ray. Its powerful, faster, and sexier.

And, I want history to be made with Sony....I want them to prove to the world, that you can dominate 3 generations long. Nintendo didn't do it, so let's see Sony can do it. I don't think they CAN'T do it, they're not Nintendo, who has stuck with cartridges for 4 generations, and switched their demographics from family to kiddies then back to family.

[Phoenix]

PlayStation 3 for the same reasons kap mentioned about Blu Ray. Its powerful, faster, and sexier.

And, I want history to be made with Sony....I want them to prove to the world, that you can dominate 3 generations long. Nintendo didn't do it, so let's see Sony can do it. I don't think they CAN'T do it, they're not Nintendo, who has stuck with cartridges for 4 generations, and switched their demographics from family to kiddies then back to family.Tell me exactly in Nintendo's timeline they changed their target demographic to kiddies.

[frosty]

I want us to win.

QFMFT.

I'm glad to see someone else second my post. WE are the only ones who we should care about winning. I personally don't care which pocket of which spoiled rich American or Japanese person that I've never met gets filled the most. All I care about is which company pushes the others the hardest to make more and better games for US to enjoy. I'll gladly donate my dollar to the pocket of the one(s) who appeal to me the most, but don't give a rats ass which one gets more of said dollar bills.

[masteratt]

Well then frosty, in that case which company 'winning' do you think will benefit us?
I believe you don't have an X360 and planning to pick up a PS3? Well your answer should be PS3/ Sony.

I just want Microsoft to be replaced by any other company.

The general feeling is that Wii and PS3 both advance the market in different ways while X360 is a bit dull so that's not really us winning is it?
My bro got X360 on launch day and I wasn't at all excited. I don't want that at every console launch.

On Wii launch I went to a friend's house and we had a great time with the amazing gameplay mechanics and on PS3 launch...Well it hasn't launched yet but I am very excited about that console due to it's game line-up (arguably two killer-aps already within a month of release) and great original arcade games to download and enjoy.

[Chippy]

Tell me exactly in Nintendo's timeline they changed their target demographic to kiddies.

We are all big kids, none of us more than Shiggy himself, Japan also gives us quirky games and quirky TV shows, sorry but theres no such thing as games for adults. Sony just made gaming something that you could admit to your mates down the pub. As far as I remember Nintendo have always marketed their consoles at the family like Atari did, two of them by name.

[Chippy]

Put down the crackpipe. Home console gaming itself was a niche activity, only for little kids and nerds until PlayStation came out in the nineties. It brought gaming to the mainstream. You can argue all you like whether or not Sony is expanding the market now, but there's no denying that gaming was brought further to the mainstream through PlayStation games.



Every kid in the West knew what an Atari was back in the early 80s, and every oldie described every video game as 'Space Invaders' thats what I would call mainstream, as for nerds and geeks, the arcades were pretty rough where I come from.
Also videogames made up a higher percentage of toys sold in the early 80s, then they did in 1995 or they do today.
Different times though, more money about today and more things to spend it on.

[frosty]

Which company wins won't benefit us. Which company pushes the others to compete will. Nintendo hasn't won anything, yet they are pushing Sony to adopt new technology. MS hasn't won anything, yet they are pushing Sony to make better games. Sony does the same to both the others. So, technically I'm for all 3. I just prefer PS3 personally, but couldn't care less if they sell more units or not.

[Chippy]

Which company wins won't benefit us. Which company pushes the others to compete will. Nintendo hasn't won anything, yet they are pushing Sony to adopt new technology. MS hasn't won anything, yet they are pushing Sony to make better games. Sony does the same to both the others. So, technically I'm for all 3. I just prefer PS3 personally, but couldn't care less if they sell more units or not.

I agree, excellent post, but I think Nintendo deserve to come out on top this time around for avoiding some of the unecessary bull the other two have been talking. I mean, was Sony's 'No gimmicks' routine really worthwhile? and the rubbish they spouted about Sega last time just harmed the industry IMO.
At the end of the day the big two would like to rule our homes and that wouldnt be any good for us.

[Carlos]

Tell me exactly in Nintendo's timeline they changed their target demographic to kiddies.
What? Are you serious? You're asking ME this question?

Must I spell it out for ya?

The Nintendo 64 era, through GameCube era was the era of which Nintendo was labeled "kiddy" thanks to the fact that Genesis forced Nintendo's hand during the SNES days with Mortal Kombat, the fact that 50% of N64's games were kiddy (although the other half of the library was high quality), and the fact that Nintendo lost 50% of its old fanbase during the N64 era, 50 to 60% of its developer support during the N64 and GC eras. All because of "kiddy" games, and demographic they wanted to reach. People called Nintendo "kiddy" for two generations now. Why did you think there was a small library for N64, why did you think it was only SIX months draught between big game releases?

The Wii is reinventing the wheel that Nintendo started off with.

[Phoenix]

The Nintendo 64 era, through GameCube era was the era of which Nintendo was labeled "kiddy" thanks to the fact that Genesis forced Nintendo's hand during the SNES days with Mortal Kombat, the fact that 50% of N64's games were kiddy (although the other half of the library was high quality), and the fact that Nintendo lost 50% of its old fanbase during the N64 era, 50 to 60% of its developer support during the N64 and GC eras. All because of "kiddy" games, and demographic they wanted to reach. People called Nintendo "kiddy" for two generations now. Why did you think there was a small library for N64, why did you think it was only SIX months draught between big game releases?Before I go off on what I disagree with, let me tell you what I can at least say I agree with. You are absolutely correct that people have labeled Nintendo kiddy during the past 10 years, just as you are correct that too many games like Cars and Nicktoons Unite have been published on Nintendo systems. However, this is absolutely insignificant for the purposes of identifying Nintendo's target. Nintendo choses who they target, not the loudmouth media and fanboys. Nintendo's target is the demographic they are trying to cater to, not the demographic that just happens to the mainstream label for the consumers. In addition, it's best not to judge a game's library by the crappy games made on it. I can tell you right now that the PS3 is going to have very, very few Spongebob games and others of its ilk, but does that make its library any better? No. The PS3's library is defined by games like Final Fantasy XIII and Metal Gear Solid 4, not by the garbage. The same applies to Nintendo now and in the past. The bad games are ignored (besides by uninformed mothers with 7-year-old "gamer" kids), and the true origin of the "kiddy" misnomer is the colorfulness and lack of wanton violence in most of the best games: the first-party ones.

[Xer0]

Here we go;

since your PlayStations Sold number is out by about 30 million and the others are exaggerations, I can see see how your reality is a little different to everyone else's. Hence the 'crackpipe' comment. Put it down, man.

I might add that my purchase of a PlayStation, combined with my non-purchase of those other two systems you mentioned, refutes your argument. The other 24 million, 24 million being a bare minimum, refute your argument soundly.

Okay so i was off by a few million, still doesnt change the fact that im right. Taken from a recent game informer, "Since the dawn of Atari 2600, consoles have rarely popped beyond 40 percent penetration in U.S households." So at the end of the day, although they are selling more and more, its still the same kinds of people buying it. When you want to comfirm that, its in Gameinformer issue #164, December 2006 pg. 78. And, if you were to look at the numbers that Venomv posted on this gen, you will notice that it didn't grow much either.

Let's see here.


Originally Posted by Xer0
Still, you cant directly compare the two, blah blah Nintendo is the only non gamer gaming system. That isn't a contradiction in terms


So, you think that shamlessly editing my post will somehow prove you right? How many words are there for dumbass?

I was talking about using innovative games to expand the market, to counter your point about how Sony only ever releases the same games ever, to the same people. Since you responded saying "you can't directly compare the two", this means you're implying that I was comparing the two. In innovation, because innovation was the only thing I'd mentioned in that part of my post.

Considering that the PS2, from a gameplay perspective, is the same as the PS1, but the Wii is nothing like the GC, i would say that you cant directly compare the two. One (the Wii) is made from the ground up for innovation considering that its like nothing out there. The other (Ps2) is made to be a better version of its for-bearer. Of course there are going to be innovative games on the PS2, but to honestly tell me that the system is made for them is being stupid.


Oh, wow, a game based on a movie must automatically be shit in your books.

Okay then, compile a list of games that are based on liscenses that are great, truly great. And then, after you get your 3 games together, compile that 20 page list of the ones that suck. Dont be stupid, as a gamer we know that license games should be kept away from because they are ment to capitalize on the license.

Keep your elitist attitude and forget that the person in question was indeed having fun with the game, which is the WHOLE POINT OF A GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE. In any case, that was an example of appealing to the casual gamer. There are other, non-movie based games but I thought of one off the top of my head. Your quick dismissal of a game I added speaks volumes of how quickly you'll chose to not see examples of things Sony brings to the industry. Congratulations, you're a fanboy.[/QUTOE]

Shit, what was i thinking, Shrek 2 is a gift from God. BTW, why do you relate Shrek 2 to Sony considering that the game is not only not made by Sony or its afiliates, but its also multi platform. How does that make me a fanboy considering that its also on the Cube, my fanboy system of choice? Honesly, more words for dumbass would be nice.

And btw, i never dismissed your other games, i just called out Shrek 2 cause it is, and will always be, shit.

[QUOTE] Faster Loading Times Scratch-Proof Layers Ability to place 10 DVD's worth of back catalogue games on one disc (I'm thinking FF: I-X would be a killer bundle for Square to make, and there is a goldmine of other series) No need to worry about disc change Greater Immersion. Playing Pong, you do not actually think you are there. There are games which do this now with the aid of photo-realistic images.

Thats right, so they can add more stuff and make the games look better. OMG, that will totally change the way gaming is played! Its like im playing something that is completely different! But it isnt, its like saying that driving a Z06 is completely different from driving a base C6 because one has more hp, it isnt, its just faster.


At the end of the day, the PS3 is just more of what we loved and the Wii is something completely new. Deny it and call me a fanboy all you want, its true. Am i hating on the PS3? Of course not, my PS2 gets more play time then my Cube and i plan on buying a PS3 when a) there are actually some in stores and b) it goes down in price.

[Phoenix]

When it comes to graphics and immersion, remember that it's not the resolution but how you use it.

[masteratt]

Xer0 makes great points :thumpsup: +rep.

Sony doesn't do innovation as their main course but goddamn they are great evolutionists.
Motorstorm- Best racer ever even has Xbots drooling.
Resistance- Many reviews called it "A day one killer-app"
Lair- Tech heaven with interesting concept.
White Knight Story- Probably will be an all time classic RPG.

All these brand new exciting IPs mixed with LEGENDARY old faces such as
Metal Gear Solid
Devil May Cry
Final Fantasy
Gran Turismo

Gives PS3 the perfect mix of 'new' and 'classic'. Note that these are not 'old' games but 'classic' games.
I don't know how PS manages it but every time a new game for MGS or DMC (etc) comes out instead of saying "urgh, another one of those on a PS system" I get more and more excited.

Not to mention there will be more inspired games for the PS3 like there was on PS2 such as
God Of War
Shadow Of The Colossus
Ico
Okami

This is why I want Sony in the game and I want them in the game well and strong.
They are a company that surprise me with gems out of no-where and I had my PS2 for five years and I can't remember even a week (except for one summer) where I regretted my purchase.

That for me is a great gaming console and only if Sony keeps making money can they provide that with every PS.

[Xer0]

Not to mention there will be more inspired games for the PS3 like there was Okami

.

Sadly, Clover closed and i doubt that we will see a new Okami, or at least one as good as the first.

[Viper]

Carlos, you do realize that more E rated games have been published on Sony consoles and have more kiddy game sold on Sony console than their are on Nintendo consoles? Stop buying into the media and fanboy bullshit.

On a per volume ratio, Nintendo has just as many mature rated titles and even less E rated titles as Sony. Do the research if you don't believe me.

For someone known as Nintendo X for the longest damn time, you sure are harsh on your former flame.


By the way, video games were just for nerds and geeks in the 80's and early 90's? What the fuck kind of bullshit stereotype is that? Do people honestly think only skinny, white kids with glasses played video games in their parents basement until Sony came along and then the kids that slapped 'Kick Me' tags on the back of the nerds shirt started picking up a controller? As a representative of that time frame, I'm more than qualified to call that claim as the bullshit it truly is....something created by a Sony fanboy to enlarge their biased ego. They didn't make shit mainstream. Everyone knew what the hell a SNES or Genesis was. Sony simply had the marketing muscle and money to get the name out far, far more than Nintendo/Sega ever could. They didn't take it mainstream, they whored it out and people lapped it up. They rode the whole X gen, Xtreme, edgy pop phenomena that was suffocating pop culture at the time.

Some of you younger gamers eat up shit on the Internet like gospel by other younger gamers as if they were there.

[Xer0]

^Way to go Viper, how the hell am i supposed to make points now that your here? You just ruined my momentum :(

[OmniCloud]

^Don't you hate when he does that...lol

I think some are taking this thread the wrong way. This is not a flame-war! It's a collection of opinions of who you want to be on top, in the middle, or wouldn't mind being gone. The purpose for me writing it was of course to share my own views and thoughts, but some are taking it as just fans wanting there preferred system to win to justify there own purchase.

Many of the sites and forums continually spit out that the day of owning one console is over. In my opinion that sucks as a gamer who enjoyed his PS2 and enjoyed going to his friends house for any Xbox game that was cool. I don't want the entire development market to be split between PS3 360 and Wii. No console will feel complete, and in the end, you'd just spend a lot more money. PS2 had something for everyone, and I seriously doubt that all 3 consoles can accomplish this at the same time.

While this is the consensus on many forums, in reality, I still see many of the great games coming back for PS3 that were on PS2. So, I'm honestly not too worried about it, but the idea sucks. Actually, after just buying a 360, if doesn't feel like that at all. My 360 seems like just what it is-my American console with American style games. Wii feels like something I play with my mother, and PS3 "looks" to be the console I once again play a little bit of everything on. I just hope Sony can do it again, cuz PS2 was fun as hell!

[Carlos]

Before I go off on what I disagree with, let me tell you what I can at least say I agree with. You are absolutely correct that people have labeled Nintendo kiddy during the past 10 years, just as you are correct that too many games like Cars and Nicktoons Unite have been published on Nintendo systems. However, this is absolutely insignificant for the purposes of identifying Nintendo's target. Nintendo choses who they target, not the loudmouth media and fanboys. Nintendo's target is the demographic they are trying to cater to, not the demographic that just happens to the mainstream label for the consumers. In addition, it's best not to judge a game's library by the crappy games made on it. I can tell you right now that the PS3 is going to have very, very few Spongebob games and others of its ilk, but does that make its library any better? No. The PS3's library is defined by games like Final Fantasy XIII and Metal Gear Solid 4, not by the garbage. The same applies to Nintendo now and in the past. The bad games are ignored (besides by uninformed mothers with 7-year-old "gamer" kids), and the true origin of the "kiddy" misnomer is the colorfulness and lack of wanton violence in most of the best games: the first-party ones.
Hey, I was telling the truth when I said that they were targeting kids with N64, and GC - I agree that they both have quality titles, and I did say that for N64; "high quality." I remember one of the executives saying that their target in the last ten years between N64, and GC, that they wanted to target kids, because moms buy them for their kids.

I do realize that right now, they're targeting the "mainstream" and other demographics you mentioned with the Wii. I've read that many times now. I don't need to hear it again. I like the wii, but am not sold on it, just like I'm STILL not sold on DS, even though there are two castlevania games on it.
Carlos, you do realize that more E rated games have been published on Sony consoles and have more kiddy game sold on Sony console than their are on Nintendo consoles? Stop buying into the media and fanboy bullshit.
Yes, I do realize that, but Sony is "cool" to the mainstream, by providing a widespread library, a large one, at that. Nintendo hasn't done that in two decades now. I'm not listening to the whole fuckin' fanboy bullshit. I really hate fanboys, for one reason only, they're blind. Just like I was blind the moment I became a Ninty fanboy myself. I used to defend Nintendo everytime there's a Nintendo vs Genesis debate. My cousins and I used to argue about it, my friends used to think I'm too nerdy for my being. I made the complete change during the late teenage years, when Metal Gear Solid, Xenogears, and other big PSX titles arrived. I became a full-fledged gamer from that point on.

I've been writing about games for nearly 6 years now, since I went to GCA, and started the "Nintendo X" name. I've been in the media for 3 years now, I understand the media. But I'm not listening to them, at all, trust me.

I've been through the phase during the N64 days, Nintendo really had changed during that time, and they made it worse with GC, even if they changed one thing - the medium. They didn't evolve, until DS, and their "revolutionary" campaign, and now Wii.

Everytime, Nintendo comes up, I get wierded responses. And I can fully understand. Nintendo marketed their products wrong - they associated "kiddy" titles with their consoles. Not a single mature title on the airwaves. Unless you count Metroid Prime, and other First Person shooters, and RE4.
On a per volume ratio, Nintendo has just as many mature rated titles and even less E rated titles as Sony. Do the research if you don't believe me.
I have no objections, I believe you. They were not marketed well for GC. Everyone's perception of Nintendo at the time of GC's launch, and all the way through its lifespan was STILL "kiddy."
For someone known as Nintendo X for the longest damn time, you sure are harsh on your former flame.
Look, the only reason why I stuck with Nintendo X for 5 years, is simple: Name Recognition. The moment Nintendo spread their releases between big titles was the time that I invested a lot into PS2 - I own 50 PS2 titles, compared to GC's 15.
By the way, video games were just for nerds and geeks in the 80's and early 90's? What the fuck kind of bullshit stereotype is that? Do people honestly think only skinny, white kids with glasses played video games in their parents basement until Sony came along and then the kids that slapped 'Kick Me' tags on the back of the nerds shirt started picking up a controller? As a representative of that time frame, I'm more than qualified to call that claim as the bullshit it truly is....something created by a Sony fanboy to enlarge their biased ego. They didn't make shit mainstream. Everyone knew what the hell a SNES or Genesis was. Sony simply had the marketing muscle and money to get the name out far, far more than Nintendo/Sega ever could. They didn't take it mainstream, they whored it out and people lapped it up. They rode the whole X gen, Xtreme, edgy pop phenomena that was suffocating pop culture at the time.

Some of you younger gamers eat up shit on the Internet like gospel by other younger gamers as if they were there.
I fully agree, and endorse this post. In fact, I have the same feeling about the whole "wtf? video games are for nerds and kids?" subject.

[The Dude]

I will own all 3 systems eventually buuuut....

I want to see the Wii come out on top, followed by 360 and PS3 in a distant 3rd. It all comes down to each companies vision.

Nintendo: Wants to expand the market to non gamers with innovative games.
Microsoft: Bring organized online gaming to the console masses with Xbox Live
Sony: Lacks a vision. They talk about blu-ray and techno bable, but what does it mean? Where do they want to take us gamers? It's like they try to be the jack of all trades. Without specializing in one area, PS3 is doomed to be mediocre at everything.

[Viper]

Nintendo has always targeted a very broad range yet the media and fanboys are the ones that completely overlooked the large variety of M and T rated titles. The Turok series, Perfect Dark was rated M, REsident Evil 2, Conkers Bad Fur Day and many more on the N64 and the GC also had a large T and M variety. Hell, GC has the top ranked M rated game ever made.

Did Sony have more total M and T rated games? Absolutely but the notion that N targeted just kids is abaolute nonsense. Think about that for a minute in complete and serious context of the sentence. Ever see those LeapFrog like video game systems? Now THAT is a game system targeted at kids. Adults don't go buy those to play it themselves or even as a whole family but adults and whole familes have been playing N systems for decades now.


The media, macho thuggish devs/pubs and fanboys are what have relegated N to such as BS label.

[Xer0]

^Don't you hate when he does that...lol



I say we start a lets ban viper club...
..........



..............



.....................


Joking of course

[masonite]

Nintendo has always targeted a very broad range yet the media and fanboys are the ones that completely overlooked the large variety of M and T rated titles. The Turok series, Perfect Dark was rated M, REsident Evil 2, Conkers Bad Fur Day and many more on the N64 and the GC also had a large T and M variety. Hell, GC has the top ranked M rated game ever made.

Did Sony have more total M and T rated games? Absolutely but the notion that N targeted just kids is abaolute nonsense. Think about that for a minute in complete and serious context of the sentence. Ever see those LeapFrog like video game systems? Now THAT is a game system targeted at kids. Adults don't go buy those to play it themselves or even as a whole family but adults and whole familes have been playing N systems for decades now.


The media, macho thuggish devs/pubs and fanboys are what have relegated N to such as BS label.

i think you'll find that the outlets themselves are also partly responsible for towing the kiddy nintendo line, at least in Australia (you can create your own opinions about NA, i don't live there so i don't know). Just the other month i was on work experience in NSW for uni, and some of the guys i was working with were discussing how their roommate was thinking about buying a Wii. the main thing that turned them off the idea was the games that were advertised (Note: i said advertised, not avaliable). Almost every game in the brochure (for JB HI-FI, if i remember correctly) for Wii was a kids game, whereas all the other consoles had their range of racing and M or MA rated games. Sure, there might be other games coming out for the console that would cater more towards their tastes, but they're casual everyday people - they don't spend their spare time sitting in front of a computer looking at gaming sites.

Also, i realise that Nintendo is aiming the Wii towards "everyone", but doing so means that games have to be inoffensive - they need games that will appeal to a whole family. Now i know that inoffensive games can be and are still fun, but it doesn't help tear down the "kiddy" image that Nintendo has had over the last few years in the public eye.

[Viper]

Very true here as well. The sales reps and even marketing materials cater to the stereotype.


As for the idea that they can't have any offensive type games, I can't see that. Far Cry isn't exactly sit down with your granny and go a round type of game. We'll still get plenty of M and T rated games just as always. The difference is the marketing, corporate philosphy, developer/retail support and even media acceptnce that has completely reversed course here in the States.

[Nights]

To be honest I am currently not interested in any of the next generation systems. No games really grab my attention at the moment. I'll grab Legend of Zelda on my Gamecube. I'm an RPG fan, of the traditional and strategy variety, and nothing currently strikes my fancy.

The other thing that would draw my attention is a 2d revival. I'm talking about high resolution 2d using some of the latest system effect and filtering.

That system will have my full support!

[masonite]

Very true here as well. The sales reps and even marketing materials cater to the stereotype.


As for the idea that they can't have any offensive type games, I can't see that. Far Cry isn't exactly sit down with your granny and go a round type of game. We'll still get plenty of M and T rated games just as always. The difference is the marketing, corporate philosphy, developer/retail support and even media acceptnce that has completely reversed course here in the States.


yeh, i think there'll definately be games catering towards the teenage boys demographic, but if they're targetting the game towards everyone, there'll be lots of marketing from Nintendo to reinforce that goal, and many games aimed at appealing to a wider audience.

[venomv]

The other thing that would draw my attention is a 2d revival. I'm talking about high resolution 2d using some of the latest system effect and filtering.

That system will have my full support!

It seems to me all three systems are pushing that in there own way through their online distrubution programs. Who knows where that will end up.

[OmniCloud]

I will own all 3 systems eventually buuuut....

I want to see the Wii come out on top, followed by 360 and PS3 in a distant 3rd. It all comes down to each companies vision.

Nintendo: Wants to expand the market to non gamers with innovative games.
Microsoft: Bring organized online gaming to the console masses with Xbox Live
Sony: Lacks a vision. They talk about blu-ray and techno bable, but what does it mean? Where do they want to take us gamers? It's like they try to be the jack of all trades. Without specializing in one area, PS3 is doomed to be mediocre at everything.I refuse to pay to play games with my friends over a freakin connection. Until Live is free-they ain't evolving Jack...Sony and Nintendo's may be a bit clunkier-but it's FREE! and I see a firmware release like every week-so just how long will it be until there's a smooth experience on Playstation online?

I wouldn't mind Wii selling a few hundred million though...Love there first party stuff, but a little disappointed by the Wii.

[frosty]

I'll have to respectfully disagree on Sony lacking vision. They have had a very clear vision of exactly what PS3 would be since PS1 was created. They simply waited for the technology to catch up, which they still aren't at their goal. They are trying to turn computing on it's head. Their vision is to completley remove the computer from being an office machine that can also do multimedia tasks, to the opposite. They are making a push to put a computer in the living room that is so user friendly and secure that grandpa can use it and not need his techie grandkids to come over and rid it of the plague every 2 weeks, or show him how to defrag or fix annoying program crashes. In the process, they are also releasing a state of the art gaming rig for the younger members of the family. In a sense, they have the same goal as Nintendo. To target non gamers. However, it differs in the fact that they aren't neccessarily trying to get those non gamers to play video games. Instead they are making one box that can satisfy the entertainment needs of the entire family, no matter what their preference for entertainment is. That is quite a lot of vision if you ask me.

[Phoenix]

It's fairly obvious that that's their vision, but the real question is whether or not that's a realistic vision, or even one that's a good idea.

[venomv]

What is the point of having a vision if it easily realized?

[OmniCloud]

I agree Venom...but is that vision (that Frosty did a wonderful job of detailing) possible with PS3? Sure it is! But will the competition make it such a chore to compete in the gaming market that Sony is forced to lose focus and become nothing more than an feature-rich, non-fleshed out gaming platform...That would really SUCK! I have faith is Sony though. With firmware updates, EyeToy (which should be bundled along with Linux!!!) keyboard and mouse support, great software, and the full entertainment package that Sony will provide, it'll be a big change for the industry.

[Carlos]

What is the point of having a vision if it easily realized?
Sorry for being late, but I'd like to answer this question:

It already has been realized. PSP was only the beginning, Xbox 360 continued, and built on PSP's ideals, and put it on a console. Firmware upgrades were done on PSP first, so essentially, SONY came up with that idea.

PS3 can and will be the "revolution" that Xbox 360 is right now. The only thing they need is the online/console profile system.

[Dwhitten]

I put a poll in. Should be interesting to see how it plays out seeing how diverse our community is.

[OmniCloud]

I put a poll in. Should be interesting to see how it plays out seeing how diverse our community is.There should be a "Us" option too no? Many users tend to not want to side with one company...Although that may become the "cool" option to pick though lol...

[Carlos]

nice poll, Mr. whitten.

[gljvd]

anyone but sony.

The ps3 shows me everything that is wrong with that company and everything right with ms and nintendo. Both of those companys innovate and now sony is left to just copy in half assed attemps .

Hopefully sony looses this gen and is forced to innovate next gen and nintendo and ms have profitable gens so tehy can stay in the game .

[frosty]

Microsoft? Innovate? HAHAHAHAHAHA! That's the funniest shit I've ever heard! You really should become a comedian. Exactly what did MS innovate this gen? Live is the only innovation they can possibly claim in the console business. Sony innovated last gen with the eyetoy, bringing cameras and games together in a way nobody else had done (there were pc webcam games, but Sony was the first to bring it to consoles. Just like there were online "live" like services on PC before Xbox) and then MS copied it this gen. Rumble, Sony and MS copy Nintendo. Backwards compatibility, I could go on and on. Nintendo are innovators, but MS, no. Not by a looooooong shot.

[gljvd]

Heh .

Live , Marketplace (video , games ) , achivements , face mapping tech in games on the console and online co-op to the masses .

What has sony ever inovated ? Eye toy ? Please its just a modern version of of the power glove and activator and u force and power pad . except it sucked and was used for a handfull of half assed gimmics .

What did the ps3 innovate ? Nothing . Its all just rip offs of last gen and current gen consoles .

MS has innovated much more so than sony has and ms is only in thier second generation of consoles .

Don't try and build up sony to be something they are not. They have never been about innovation they have allways just copied everyone else and got very lucky in the 32bit gen

[frosty]

Likewise, MS copied: Dual analog, eyetoy, DVD playback, (face mapping was available on PS2 for Tony hawk), backwards compatibility, in fact.. everything BUT Live and Xbox's HDD.

What did they Innovate? standard HDD (which they then abandoned) and Live.

PS3 innovates: Open platform, install any OS you want. Open game development platform, make your own games and sell them in the PS3 store. Blu-Ray. Remote PSP functionality for accessing media files on PS3 or playing games from anywhere in the world.

[gljvd]

Yawn

Dual analog ? yey stealing from someone that stole . At least ms improved it and made it usefull for many games .

Dvd playback ? Whats the diffrence from cd playback ? The sega cd , turbo graphic 16 cd and 3d0 all played the popular disc video codecs of the time . vcd , super vcd and what not . Even the dreamcast would play super vcd .

Which tony hawk was facing mapping avalible on as i've never heard anything about that .


Open platform ? What open platform ? The rsx is still off limits to the community meanwhile using xna studio anyone can produce software on the xbox 360 and we are all protected by a screening process that prevents the spread of viruses and software that will cause harm to consumers.

Can i install windows xp or vista on the ps3 ? if so your claim is wrong. Once again xna is an open game dev platform all before the ps3 .
Bluray ? Xbox 360 had hd-dvd and it launched before the ps3. We can go back all the way to the gamegear for video playback on consoles ( i could get tv on it) and the cd based consoles / add ons for optical video playback . Don't know what makes bluray so special except that its a newer format. Should be praise the ds for innovating a bigger capacity cart ?

Remote psp funcionality ? How about remote pc accessing where I can acess media files on my pc from anywhere in the world on my xbox 360 ?


Shall we go on ?

[OmniCloud]

Yawn

Dual analog ? yey stealing from someone that stole . At least ms improved it and made it usefull for many games .

Dvd playback ? Whats the diffrence from cd playback ? The sega cd , turbo graphic 16 cd and 3d0 all played the popular disc video codecs of the time . vcd , super vcd and what not . Even the dreamcast would play super vcd .

Which tony hawk was facing mapping avalible on as i've never heard anything about that .


Open platform ? What open platform ? The rsx is still off limits to the community meanwhile using xna studio anyone can produce software on the xbox 360 and we are all protected by a screening process that prevents the spread of viruses and software that will cause harm to consumers.

Can i install windows xp or vista on the ps3 ? if so your claim is wrong. Once again xna is an open game dev platform all before the ps3 .
Bluray ? Xbox 360 had hd-dvd and it launched before the ps3. We can go back all the way to the gamegear for video playback on consoles ( i could get tv on it) and the cd based consoles / add ons for optical video playback . Don't know what makes bluray so special except that its a newer format. Should be praise the ds for innovating a bigger capacity cart ?

Remote psp funcionality ? How about remote pc accessing where I can acess media files on my pc from anywhere in the world on my xbox 360 ?


Shall we go on ?Sry to butt in...but are you serious:huh:

You've just downplayed PS3 without saying what it is the 360 actually innovated in outside of live? And that PSP comparison doesn't even make sense. It's a benefit for anyone who has a PSP and a PS3-PERIOD....What you can do with a computer and a 360 is irrelevant.

Many people still hold the dual analog control as the most preferred controller, so I don't know what your talking about "made it useful for gaming." That's just your preference, but I haven't heard many people say, the 360 controller is just so awesome! It's a pretty much dual-shock style controller with different configurations.

I know this is just preference man..but if your gonna make these types of statements public for everyone to see, you should come harder than that.

And please don't downplay the OS option in PS3..you obviously have no idea the potential this holds for the Linux community...

And I guess because MS gives there services a name ("Live" "XNA") it's automatically better eh?

[gljvd]

You've just downplayed PS3 without saying what it is the 360 actually innovated in outside of live? And that PSP comparison doesn't even make sense. It's a benefit for anyone who has a PSP and a PS3-PERIOD....What you can do with a computer and a 360 is irrelevant.



Outside of live ? LIve itself is full of innovations that sony is copying . Achivements , video downloads , content downloads upgradable os / features on a system platform .

Anyone who owns a psp and a ps3 has those benfits. Anyone who owns a pc and a xbox 360 have all the benfits you talked about for the psp/ ps2 and more and there are hundreds of millions more who own a pc than a psp or ps3 .

Many people still hold the dual analog control as the most preferred controller, so I don't know what your talking about "made it useful for gaming." That's just your preference, but I haven't heard many people say, the 360 controller is just so awesome! It's a pretty much dual-shock style controller with different configurations.


And the dual shock is just a n64 controller / saturn knights pad with a second analog stick attached to it . Whats the diffrence there ?

Thats right there isn't. The analog stick was the inovation adding a second one is eveloution

I know this is just preference man..but if your gonna make these types of statements public for everyone to see, you should come harder than that.



I came hard enough you still haven't shown me any sony innovations . Only evloutions or out right theft of other products .

And please don't downplay the OS option in PS3..you obviously have no idea the potential this holds for the Linux community...


Yes because we all see what the ps2 linux option did for the linux community . Yup ....

[OmniCloud]

I don't think you've done your research on PS3 yet mate...I specifically recall a Sony rep saying that it WONT be achievements or any type of different currency like Live. Any type of rewards you get from a game is done by the developers, so how is that copying?

Sony is an entertainment company...why would there not be other types of content besides games on the PS store:huh:

And PSP is already a testament to what we will see on PS3, not to mention PS3 basically mimics the functionality and expands upon it (including the way it's system gets updated btw) (homebrew any1?) PS2's Linux is not even in the same category...

One word of advice, there's a bunch of informed and detailed threads right in the PS3 section, I think you should read it before you began stating facts as opinions about who did what first, and just to brush up on exactly how the PS3 works. I don't have one yet, but I know that PS3 mimics PSP's system where it gets updated through firmware. (not really like Live)

I wasn't saying Sony made the most original best controller ever, but you seem to be bashing it because it incorporated ideas from Nintendo, when MS did the exact same thing-if not more blatantly.

Again...what does walking around with a portable device that's able to watch/listen to everything that's on your PS3's Hdd have to do with a PC and 360?

[gljvd]

don't think you've done your research on PS3 yet mate...I specifically recall a Sony rep saying that it WONT be achievements or any type of different currency like Live. Any type of rewards you get from a game is done by the developers, so how is that copying?



Fine they don't copy achivements . They are still copying live arcade and the movie / video downloads are they not ?

Sony is an entertainment company...why would there not be other types of content besides games on the PS store


where was it on the ps2 ? They followed in ms's foot steps . Ms is the one that pushed live arcade and now nintendo and sony are following by offering virtual console and the sony store games .

MS started arcade with the xbox 1 though it was lmited.

And PSP is already a testament to what we will see on PS3, not to mention PS3 basically mimics the functionality and expands upon it (including the way it's system gets updated btw) (homebrew any1?) PS2's Linux is not even in the same category...


Poor unit sales and poor software sales ?

Homebrew ? Homebrew on the psp is mostly emulation of older games . Don't see how this is a huge innovation as a) its not sony and b) if you don't own the original games your basicly stealing from the companys and doing illegal things .


Ps2's linux ? Ps2 had linux . Ps3 had linux . Aside from new features added to linux over the years (which can't be helped) what else is lacking in the ps2 linux ? Why is it now suddenly uber leet feature when it was already released on the ps2 with no fan fare and basicly died still born ?

One word of advice, there's a bunch of informed and detailed threads right in the PS3 section, I think you should read it before you began stating facts as opinions about who did what first, and just to brush up on exactly how the PS3 works. I don't have one yet, but I know that PS3 mimics PSP's system where it gets updated through firmware. (not really like Live)



None of them have anything to do with anything here and once again nothing you have stated has been inovated through sony .

If you remember and think back here but on the xbox 1 there was a huge modder group out there and hacked the xbox and ran home brew and emulation on it way before the ps2 came out that offered tons of roms to play . There were even people doing this on the gba .

I wasn't saying Sony made the most original best controller ever, but you seem to be bashing it because it incorporated ideas from Nintendo, when MS did the exact same thing-if not more blatantly.


I never gave ms any credit for the controller .

The controller that sony now uses is a rip off of the super ness controller with button placement almost identical with the addition of the n64/ knights controller anlog stick x2 .

Those were the last 2 innovative controllers (perhaps the dreamcast with the vmu )

Again...what does walking around with a portable device that's able to watch/listen to everything that's on your PS3's Hdd have to do with a PC and 360?


What you are saying is not true. You need to be in a wireless hotspot for this and you would need a super fast connection between the two places to get enough speed to send anything worth watching over it .

The xbox 360 can be used in any hotspot location and you would be limited by the same things but its just as doable .


In a few months time with live anywhere this will become even more so as there will be a slew of devices that join the xbox 360 / pc web . There will be live anywhere windows ce cell phones , live anywhere zunes and other things that will all expand on these functions .

They will all be limited by bandwidth though

[Cless]

Fine they don't copy achivements . They are still copying live arcade and the movie / video downloads are they not ?
Dude, let's keep it simple, between Sony and MS, MS is not innovative, they copied the PS2. Sony came first with their console (PS1 included) and MS came after (Xbox360 included). Even their Xbox isn't innovative, a DVD drive which they copied from PS2 (from console perspective) and their CPU/GPU are from a PC hardware. Xbox Live innovative? Hell no, what they did is they copied internet gaming from the PC to the Xbox, that's all, no way it is innovative. They are even asking you to pay to play online games while PC and PS3 is free. In fact they are money-grubbers.

Ps2's linux ? Ps2 had linux . Ps3 had linux . Aside from new features added to linux over the years (which can't be helped) what else is lacking in the ps2 linux ? Why is it now suddenly uber leet feature when it was already released on the ps2 with no fan fare and basicly died still born ?
Linux for the PS2 was not accessible for everyone, you have to buy it (buying the CD/DVD, a HD, keyboard etc.) and not everyone want to pay for Linux while it is free on the PC.
Unlike PS2, Linux for PS3 is now accessible to anyone who own a PS3 from the START and it is FREE.

I never gave ms any credit for the controller .

The controller that sony now uses is a rip off of the super ness controller with button placement almost identical with the addition of the n64/ knights controller anlog stick x2 .
So is the controller of MS, your point is? Nintendo is the one who is innovative with their controller, not MS and Sony. Telling MS is as innovative as Nintendo is way too off.

What you are saying is not true. You need to be in a wireless hotspot for this and you would need a super fast connection between the two places to get enough speed to send anything worth watching over it .

The xbox 360 can be used in any hotspot location and you would be limited by the same things but its just as doable .

In a few months time with live anywhere this will become even more so as there will be a slew of devices that join the xbox 360 / pc web . There will be live anywhere windows ce cell phones , live anywhere zunes and other things that will all expand on these functions .
Oh really? tell me how you are gonna take your Xbox360 with your HDTV while traveling/going to work or school. No Xbox360 is not portable, dude, unlike PSPortable.

[Yahaqq]

So let me get this straight: You guys are arguing about who stole what from who, who "innovates" more, and who has a better "corporate vision?"

Stunning.

Maybe it would be best to accept that Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony all "stole" shit from other companies, and that "stealing" is in fact a good business practice. Hell, look at the automotive industry. Microsoft grifted the most popular controller design, reworked and smoothed it out, and made a pretty damn comfortable piece of plastic at the end of the day. Nintendo, well, I bet we can all agree the analog stick; their most popular "innovation" didn't just come out of nowhere (Let's not pretend motion control was an original idea, either). That's not to say it (both) wasn't (were) a good idea, however. And Sony "stole" the SNES controller design, reworked that, and, well, it's not really that comforatable for me, but damn is it popular. You could probably say they stole the Wii's thunder with that SixAxis thing as well, but I'm sure some jerk with a patent link would call you a dumb fuck for doing so. These are just examples, but I hope you get the idea. There's really nothing wrong with "stealing" a competitor's idea, as it only forces the production of better products for you and I.

At the end of the day, "innovation" is old corporate buzzword that pretty much means nothing now. In an industry as large as this, there's really no such thing as an original idea in the purest sense of the word. Creativity and refinement certainly, but nothing terribly original. Essentially, everything has been done before.