DFP patch request.

[jaxmkii]

the force feedback in GTHD is inop customer requesting an update.

please support the cause

[Siraris]

I don't understand a word you said.

[Nameless]

^^There's rumors that the Japanese version supported FF until the new patch was released... :(
I'm not sure if the Immersion lawsuit prevents any rumble or Force feedback being used with the PS3. I would think that Logitech could use FF with no problems from immersion if PD supports the function in their code. It would be a huge loss for us hardcore GT players who own high-end steering wheels.

Perhaps someone could do some research and see if anyone from the PD team has mentioned the FF issue. Peace

[Z]

I don't understand a word you said.
lol

[PSXBatou]

I don't get why Sony won't just pay Immersion like every other company does and release a Sixaxis controller with rumble... I still think that Sony has a holier than thou attitude, they need to get over themselves and look out for what the consumer wants and not saving face.

I really enjoy my PS3, but not having FF/Rumble does suck.

[Nameless]

^ Sony is paying enough money currently so you can own a PS3 for less than $800 USD... I think eventually this issue will be resolved, but no time soon...

[Garfunkel]

I don't get why Sony won't just pay Immersion like every other company does and release a Sixaxis controller with rumble... I still think that Sony has a holier than thou attitude, they need to get over themselves and look out for what the consumer wants and not saving face.

I really enjoy my PS3, but not having FF/Rumble does suck.

they don't wanna pay because ms will receive a share, also it is a LOT of money.

I think sony has one appeal left.

PS: metallica rocks!

[EvilTaru]

MS doesn't own part of Immersion anymore, they sold all their shares.

[Garfunkel]

K, didn't know that, they still have a "DIY" view though, so they will never pay them

[Siraris]

I don't get why Sony won't just pay Immersion like every other company does and release a Sixaxis controller with rumble... I still think that Sony has a holier than thou attitude, they need to get over themselves and look out for what the consumer wants and not saving face.

I really enjoy my PS3, but not having FF/Rumble does suck.

Sony already payed the lawsuit, that's not the issue. They don't want to pay for the licensing fees, or are just being too proud.

[Lekko]

It should have it for the full version, keep in mind this is only really a demo.

Immersion has NOTHING to do with force feedback in devices such as the logitech steering wheel because it doesn't actually "rumble".

As I recall, the lawsuit was over a motor with an offset weight on the end. The steering wheel works because the column is directly linked to a motor, which pushes back against you. Two totally different principles at work.

[Krad]

The Immersion lawsuit only prevented Sony from manufacturing controllers that violated their patents; which was a rumble patent and a couple others.

A California judge ordered Sony to pay Immersion a licensing fee of 1.37 percent per quarter based on the sales of PlayStation units, Dual Shock controllers, and a selection of PlayStation 2 games that use Immersion's technology.

As you see, that adds up quite a bit. That's not even including the $90.7 million USD in damages.

Although it's very early this generation, I don't believe Sony has the option to go back and start manufacturing controllers with rumble; unless they want to replace all their current controllers or face some ugly customers. But if the developers want to add a couple lines of code for 3rd party controllers, there shouldn't be a problem with that.

And wasn't GT: HD cancelled? I don't keep up with much Sony news.

*Off Topic*

In my opinion, Sony has to use a couple million USD more to improve its marketing and go all out. Although their Play B3yond marketing is pretty good, I haven't seen it enough on a mainstream level (TV, billboards, ETC). They also need to make sure that all their kiosk are working and ON. Not just their looking pretty.

[Garfunkel]

GTHD was canceled and the demo is called GTHD concept

The lawsuit is backfiring on immersion because now they have lost a big customer in Sony and therefore lots of profit, they still want Sony to use their crappy tech but now sony has basically said STFU. Never liked immersion.

If sony really wanted rumble they could have just commissioned Logitech to do it for them, they have very good quality and good prices. Then again, Sony could do it cheaper considering they have only made adjustments to some parts of the controller, not everything so it would be not much more expensive then before to produce.

I still feel some devs will write the few lines of code it takes to appease people with vibrating logitech/3rd party controllers.

[jaxmkii]

GTHD was canceled and the demo is called GTHD concept

The lawsuit is backfiring on immersion because now they have lost a big customer in Sony and therefore lots of profit, they still want Sony to use their crappy tech but now sony has basically said STFU. Never liked immersion.

If sony really wanted rumble they could have just commissioned Logitech to do it for them, they have very good quality and good prices. Then again, Sony could do it cheaper considering they have only made adjustments to some parts of the controller, not everything so it would be not much more expensive then before to produce.

I still feel some devs will write the few lines of code it takes to appease people with vibrating logitech/3rd party controllers.


DFP II FTW!

[cliffbo]

i can't believe we are STILL discussing the lack of rumble... get over it. do you want to fly dragons or feel a rumble when you land?

[Sephiroth_VII]

As Lekko said, Immersion has nothing to do with the force feedback in Logitech's wheel controller.
They're two completely different concepts.

[jaxmkii]

i can't believe we are STILL discussing the lack of rumble... get over it. do you want to fly dragons or feel a rumble when you land? cliffbo you know i love you right?

ok force feed back is not rumble...

if you everplayed GT4 with a DFP you would know the differance.

[Nameless]

^ Exactly...
Cliff, you obviously have not used a DFP steering wheel, because the lack of force feedback & rumble defeat the purpose of purchasing the wheel...
I heard a rumor that Need for Speed Carbon supports FF & rumble with the DFP can someone please confirm!

[RzrWire]

Sony doesn't want Immersion's technology because Sony is developing their own. This will pay off for Sony in the future. In the meantime that means we are stuck with FF/Rumble-less games. Hopefully Sony will have their technology out in time for PD to implement into GT5.

[Garfunkel]

Sony doesn't want Immersion's technology because Sony is developing their own. This will pay off for Sony in the future. In the meantime that means we are stuck with FF/Rumble-less games. Hopefully Sony will have their technology out in time for PD to implement into GT5.

Are you referring to a controller revision?

[RzrWire]

^ Yes. I've read a couple of interviews in which Sony has stated their R&D into their own FF/Rumble technology to be incorporated into the Sixaxis and other controllers in a year or so (or more).


Edit - Searches through PS3 threads....


....In VG's Post (http://forums.e-mpire.com/showpost.php?p=1299951&postcount=1) on 11/13/06 Phil Harrison had this to say:
Is rumble feedback really gone for good?

“I’ve been very consistent on this. The rumble feature was a great, impactful way of the machine talking to the user on PS2. But you had no influence on it; you just received a single channel feedback from the game. Sixaxis gives you greater influence over the game environment, enabling you to do things you could never do with buttons and sticks alone. That will yield way more sophisticated gameplay benefits and therefore more value to the player than a vibrating pad could ever do. Saying that, I don’t believe we’ve got definitive examples of how great it could be yet, but we’re close.”

If, further down the line, there was a way of marrying the two technologies, would Sony consider it?

“No, because we’re making a standard controller. With the PS2 we made 160 million controllers. Once you’ve defined the format, you stick to it. Now, that doesn’t prevent third party steering wheels having force feedback and obviously [Gran Turismo creator] Kazunori is going to be keen to have that. There will continue to be vertically integrated controllers like that, which a specific to an individual game.”

However in an interview with Kaz Hirai (http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/vidview_games.asp?games/kazhirai_scea_ps3interview_oct06/kikizo_sd360p30_kazhirai_ps3interview_oct06.wmv) on 10/06/06 at about the 6:30 minute marker he starts discussing this issue. Kaz says the rumble and motion sensing technology can be isolated so they don't interfere with each other, and if it's going to happen it will be with Sony's own technology. It will be a balancing act between cost to consumers and rumble/motion incorporation without interference. For now anyway Sony chose the motion sensing technology, because of the innovative gameplay it will bring.

For now it seems the FF/Rumble technology will be left up to 3rd party manufacturers until Sony comes up with its own solution. Definately expect PD to have FF/Rumble support.

[Smokey]

^ Exactly...
Cliff, you obviously have not used a DFP steering wheel, because the lack of force feedback & rumble defeat the purpose of purchasing the wheel...
I heard a rumor that Need for Speed Carbon supports FF & rumble with the DFP can someone please confirm!

FF is different to rumble. FF pushes against you, Rumble......well just rumbles

[Nameless]

^ Good point, but I think both are essential for steering wheels...

[Garfunkel]

^ Good point, but I think both are essential for steering wheels...

Agreed.

[frosty]

actually, both could be integrated into the same mechanism.

[Nameless]

Tried to use DFP with GT4 and PS2 mode does not recognize the wheel at all... Perhaps this will be addressed with a future update. :(

I may rent Need for Speed Carbon just to see if the rumor is true and the game supports FF & rumble with the DFP. Peace

PS: Also, hooked up the PS3 to my SDTV and was shocked that the PS3 titles still look great in Standard Def except for NBA 2K7 it looks significantly better in HD, GTHD looked amazing even in SD & Resistance was not bad at all... Also, the PS2 titles looks significantly better on a Standard Display using Component or SVideo. If you are playing your PS3 on a SDTV you could honestly consider selling your PS2 if you have not already done so... I hope Sony plans a software emulation fix for us HDMI users, because I would like to play FF XII & GOW 2 and not look at a jaggy mess over HDMI. Peace