My concerns for next gen games.

[cliffbo]

now that all next gen consoles have been released we can see the contrasts between all three machines. its these contrasts that, IMO, could lead this gen into a dead end. with more and more exclusives going multi platform its easy to envisage a future of compromises and Sony could be biggest loser overall.

the arguments about Blu-ray have been done to death and we all know that larger capacity means that devs have more scope (no argument there) but with two other machines not supporting Blu-ray and at least one of them (360) getting many games from the PS3 that were originally touted as exclusives, how will Sony justify its inclusion? i'm talking from a gaming perspective here, not films.

an example is needed here so i'll use GTA. this sandbox title has gone from strength to strength with each iteration growing exponentially. each time this title grows it uses more storage space. now put yourself into a developers shoes... you will look at the market and evaluate where your next pay packet will come from. risk is no longer a real option now because your talking huge amounts of money. you want to push the new GTA into new areas and make it bigger, but how big will you make it? will it fill a blu-ray? or a DVD9? because of the nature of sandbox titles, do you take a step back in development and re-introduce the three island scenario (in order to fit it onto three DVDs) or continue the totally open ended approach of San Andrias? we know its now multi platform, so i can see a step backwards is almost inevitable.

now lets take a look at graphics. the Wii is promoting game play over graphics and by the way its selling, its doing a mighty fine job at it. remember: perspective is everything. there is no discernible graphical difference (at the moment) between 360 and PS3... in fact arguments rage on about whether the graphics are better on the 360. if you were a dev, would you want to develop a game that is multi platform but make one visibly inferior, or would you downgrade the game graphically in order to make everyone happy? again, this to me at least is almost inevitable.

i know there are exceptions to these rules and that you can quote quite a few examples that disprove what i have written, but gravity is a powerful thing. short term... nah... won't happen... long term... different story. if Nintendos philosophy wins the day then graphics will not be seen as the be all and end all of gaming (rightly so by the way, but you can have fun and great graphics in the same game) and the graphical differences between the 360 and PS3 are only minor, then again it seems almost inevitable that Devs will compromise, especially in light of a potential shortening of development time, leading to more profit.

there is only one answer for Sony and one i believe they are hard at work on. they have to create in house games that completely obliterate anything that is on the market at the moment and demonstrate games that could never be done on multiple disks. i'm not talking fillers here, i'm talking legitimate content that makes the blu-ray purr.

i believe Afrika is one such title. this sandbox, strollaround, adventure game will be HUGE. it will feature the vast plains of Africa (and that IS huge) the Getaway i believe is another. Sony are not stupid, they will realise that GTA going multi platform means compromises and so they will be going all out to create a GTA beater, and who'd bet against them accomplishing this.

of course Sixaxis, if used well could make the difference between wanting a PS3 version over a 360 version but i don't see that making devs put in extra work on the graphics.

so i see a see-sawing of game development with Nintendo out of the loop but doing pretty well. 360 version great, PS3 version better, 360 version better with extras, PS3 version... you get the picture...

[OmniCloud]

Good post cliffy...but in the end, it's all up to Sony man....Kojima...SE...Level 5..and a few other devs will ride it out with them, but Sony's first party HAS to be even better than last-generation titles (Sotc, Ico, God of War, Socom, Ratchet & Clank, Jak, Sly Cooper, Gran Turismo, Dark Cloud, EyeToy games, The Getaway, Mark of Kri, Killzone and more) Make all of these take advantage of PS3 and be "OWNAGE" through in some new IP's, (MotorStorm, Resistance, Heavenly Sword, Warhawk-{kinda}, White Knight Story, F1,-{in the states}) get a few of those games that just "have" to be on PS3 like Tekken, Kingdom Hearts, and Devil May Cry...

Yeah...I'd say there off to a great start man...

[Garfunkel]

This is the reaon why Sony set up SCEWWS in the first place, all 1st party devs united as one!

[digital neXus]

Ok everybody said that it's difficult to program PS2, they ended up with GoW, and first game that impressed me ICO, and of course GT, they ended up with GT4. So if GT5/GTHD looks like this how will GT6 or 7, look like if they get more into PS3? If there is almost no difference in GTHD and real life models??? Just to push the background a bit more, and after all this is not NFS, and it's not in town.....mostly. Hey, 8 Days pushed me more than any sequel of X360 or PS3 except classics MGS, GT. To tell you the truth, it looks more beautiful than any of those games. I thnk X360 will have classic PC like games FPS/RTS and more of driving, more of sports and multiplatform. Still PS3 will have those, and from Sony, Konami, Capcom, etc.....sequels, and maybe something PS3 inovative official. Lair for example. recalls from Panzer Dragoon. never played it but it resembles me from vids

[Mitri]

i agree with the post cliff. and i jus want to say...that same thing goes for all first party devs...i know most of you are sony fans..but..show the xbox some love. at least for the 1 person that is XBOX PRO. lol. haha.

but i think that goes for everyone still. and i think that nintendo will come out on top once again with the best first party devs by the way. just my 2 cents.

[OmniCloud]

I don't think there's a lot of games that MS games studios offer outside of Halo and Fable...and compared to Sony and Nintendo's first party studios-well...u see where I'm going mate....

They will certainly have some new hits this gen though...

[digital neXus]

In short words, Omni said it.
PS2 regardless of CPU or GPU power over XBOX power, had in overall better games. That's what sold PS2, and of course controler, best controler I had since Sega's/Saturn. Combination of keyboard, mouse, driving wheel and PS controler is the best gaming combination ever!!!!!. I got used to PS controler after Sega's, couldn't get used to Dreamcast and X/X360 controler. I also bought Logitech Rumblepad 2 and it still serves me well, thu not to many platform games, except DMC3SE, ONIMUSHA, MGS2.....using it for MAME.

[OmniCloud]

360's controller is pretty comfortable actually-they made it as small as the PS2 and switch the analog with a d-pad. The triggers feel good, don't know If I like them better than the sqishy's on PS3 pad though-haven't played with it that long. PS3 definitely had the best pad though, everything is kinda molded after the dualshock 2...

[Garfunkel]

I like the 360 controller but the DS2 will always have a soft spot in my heart.

[ScratchedAt]

Cliff, I do not think I've ever read any of your posts, but I believe this is one of the most intelligent posts I've read in the longest of times at E-Mpire. And that's not even saying that these forums are stupid.. because.. with the exception of dork... these forums are great (Just kidding Dork... kinda!).

I agree with everything you've said. I like you. The term fanboy seems like it will never apply to you.

[ScratchedAt]

Cliff, I do not think I've ever read any of your posts, but I believe this is one of the most intelligent posts I've read in the longest of times at E-Mpire. And that's not even saying that these forums are stupid.. because.. with the exception of dork... these forums are great (Just kidding Dork... kinda!).

I agree with everything you've said. I like you. The term fanboy seems like it will never apply to you.

[blackblood]

Cliffbo that was a great anaylisis man for real. Listen i know this may sound wierd cause i don't know you or nothing but you seem like a real gamer , unbiased, and tell the situation how it is, i'm looking for people like that cause i'm trying to start a gameshow next year. i have 360, ps3 , i don't like the wii but i may get it just for the game show i want to put together i'm doing it out of my house i have a 40inch 1080p sony bravia and the shit is off da hook man i'm gonna do videoconferencing all of that i'm a hard core gamer myself to i prefer ps3 then 360 but anyway let me know what you think and stay up man aight keep up the good work on here peace

[ScratchedAt]

Umn...

Blackblood kinda scares me.

[Z]

Sony are not stupid
off topic tid bit to comment on that note:
British refer to companies in the plural by saying, for example; 'BMW were great last year', and like how cliffbo put the quoted phrase.
in American English, companies are referred to as singular. so the example would be; 'BMW was great last year', or the quoted example changed to 'Sony is not stupid'.

just something I find interesting. :)

[PUNK em 733]

I agree with cliffbo, who brings up some awesome points, but as others have stated Sony will have to step up big time, and blow ppl away to make them want it. I think Sony is up to the challenge.

[cliffbo]

off topic tid bit to comment on that note:
British refer to companies in the plural by saying, for example; 'BMW were great last year', and like how cliffbo put the quoted phrase.
in American English, companies are referred to as singular. so the example would be; 'BMW was great last year', or the quoted example changed to 'Sony is not stupid'.

just something I find interesting. :)

yes you are right here. it depends on whether you see Sony as a singular body or a multitude of talented individuals, 'IS' would have been more accurate though, you are right ;)

[cliffbo]

thank you for your kind words fellas. it was a rare moment of clarity LOL. Sony's directive for pushing 1080p from the off, could also rebound in my opinion (i'm talking short term here though) its not that its not possible, we know now that it is, its just that it forces people to consider which is best 720p or 1080p.

the argument goes that you either want 1080p with less effects on screen or 720p with lots of effects on screen. we are only seeing first gen games on the PS3 at the moment and some of them are clearly having some difficulties accomplishing everything Sony want. PS3 owners and Sony fans have been too quick off the mark in comparing first gen games on the PS3 and second gen games on the 360. i've got to be honest here and say i don't see a huge difference myself and so i think fanboyism has set a president of comparative thinking that has made it almost impossible to counter. we should be compareing kind for kind... first gen games on 360 to PS3.

now the point is that what this has done is dilute the argument that 720p is inferior and so inadvertently sent a message to developers that most gamers are satisfied with 720p and so... yes you guessed it... given another area for devs to compromise.

if the general public don't buy 1080p TVs then blu-ray will suffer and so will the PS3

[cliffbo]

This is the reaon why Sony set up SCEWWS in the first place, all 1st party devs united as one!

absolutely right... this age is the age of IN HOUSE!

[Smokey]

if the general public don't buy 1080p TVs then blu-ray will suffer and so will the PS3
i dont think so, people will eventually want Hidef movies weather its 720/1080/1080p the ps3 can provide that & alot more. and HD tvs are getting very popular :)

[Old_Timer!]

You know what, the pendulum can swing in Sony's Blu-ray Storage space as well. Third Party Devs can use Blu-ray as the standard, and strip down there assets for lesser formats such as DVD9.

[Black Dragon37]

"You don't want photorealism - you want photosurrealism."
- nAo.

[cliffbo]

You know what, the pendulum can swing in Sony's Blu-ray Storage space as well. Third Party Devs can use Blu-ray as the standard, and strip down there assets for lesser formats such as DVD9.

thats a different scenario and one that, whilst not as likely, could happen. it will happen only if Sony create in house games that put a huge distance between what we think we except as next gen and what our original dreams were...

[Smokey]

what our original dreams were...
here lies in the problem

[EvilTaru]

How many of you actually have a PS3? Seriously, if you have one, play it. If you don't have a PS3, BUY ONE ALREADY. If the PS3 hasn't launched in your region, PLAY THE HIGH QUALITY PS2 GAMES RELEASED THIS WINTER, there are a ton of them! ~_~

Leave the problem of game development and marketing to people whose jobs are game design and marketing. There's way too much time spent on armchair gaming market analysis, frankly I'm as guilty as anyone here and it seems people are obsessed more with things peripherally related to the gaming experience but not the actual games themselves, while one can say, "if you disagree with this thread, you don't have to reply to it", true, but one is doing himself or herself a disservice by forgetting what's the most important thing in gaming, the games themselves, not the daily FUD, not all these daily "market concerns", not "how much cache does the RSX actually have?", not "what if Blu-Ray succeeds/fails?". Just play the games, dudes. JUST PLAY THE GAMES.

~_~

[Smokey]

How many of you actually have a PS3? Seriously, if you have one, play it. If you don't have a PS3, BUY ONE ALREADY. If the PS3 hasn't launched in your region, PLAY THE HIGH QUALITY PS2 GAMES RELEASED THIS WINTER, there are a ton of them! ~_~

Leave the problem of game development and marketing to people whose jobs are game design and marketing. There's way too much time spent on armchair gaming market analysis, frankly I'm as guilty as anyone here and it seems people are obsessed more with things peripherally related to the gaming experience but not the actual games themselves, while one can say, "if you disagree with this thread, you don't have to reply to it", true, but one is doing himself or herself a disservice by forgetting what's the most important thing in gaming, the games themselves, not the daily FUD, not all these daily "market concerns", not "how much cache does the RSX actually have?", not "what if Blu-Ray succeeds/fails?". Just play the games, dudes. JUST PLAY THE GAMES.

~_~
QFT

[frosty]

^And QFT again. Look at last gen. It wasn't PS2's GPU, CPU, SPU, RAM, etc. that took it to victory, it was it's software lineup. That's it.

[jaxmkii]

Cliffbo that was a great anaylisis man for real. Listen i know this may sound wierd cause i don't know you or nothing but you seem like a real gamer , unbiased, and tell the situation how it is, i'm looking for people like that cause i'm trying to start a gameshow next year. i have 360, ps3 , i don't like the wii but i may get it just for the game show i want to put together i'm doing it out of my house i have a 40inch 1080p sony bravia and the shit is off da hook man i'm gonna do videoconferencing all of that i'm a hard core gamer myself to i prefer ps3 then 360 but anyway let me know what you think and stay up man aight keep up the good work on here peace
:lol:

[jaxmkii]

I agree with cliffbo, who brings up some awesome points, but as others have stated Sony will have to step up big time, and blow ppl away to make them want it. I think Sony is up to the challenge.
they built the hardware first now its time for the software.:cloud9:

[Garfunkel]

^And QFT again. Look at last gen. It wasn't PS2's GPU, CPU, SPU, RAM, etc. that took it to victory, it was it's software lineup. That's it.

On a side note; was that quote in your sig real???

if so LMAO!

[frosty]

Yes. It came from the "which console do you want to win" thread in general gaming.

[Z]

yes you are right here. it depends on whether you see Sony as a singular body or a multitude of talented individuals, 'IS' would have been more accurate though, you are right ;)

no, no. it wouldn't have been more accurate since both are perfectly correct. I was only pointing out one of the differences between British and American English. we actually had a small discussion about this very point a long time ago and thought I would mention it again as a general info and in case someone was wondering. :book:

I know. sometimes I'm just exciting like that.:ko:

[Helios]

absolutely right... this age is the age of IN HOUSE!

This statement I believe is the most important out of this entire thread. Herein lies the shining star of this generation, for the first time ever you have three gaming platforms with a signifigant gap between each(yes even ps3 and 360) that no system can just coast on by with multiplatform titles. As the saying goes "shit or get off the toilet", each company will have to give it their all with first party titles that cant be duplicated on other systems or face obscurity.

[cliffbo]

This statement I believe is the most important out of this entire thread. Herein lies the shining star of this generation, for the first time ever you have three gaming platforms with a signifigant gap between each(yes even ps3 and 360) that no system can just coast on by with multiplatform titles. As the saying goes "shit or get off the toilet", each company will have to give it their all with first party titles that cant be duplicated on other systems or face obscurity.

i wondered how long it would be before someone realised my underlying opinion +rep fella.

yes this is how Sony will compete this generation (note i say compete) they have been gathering talent from all corners of the globe because they too realise my 'compromise' argument, and everything... literally... is riding on the PS3. Bravia TVs, Blu-ray, Movies, Online innovations...

yes its a concern because nothing is definite but trust me, i sit here typing with a party hat on whilst tucking into a large slice of optimism which is topped with cream and a juicy cherry.

we can't always argue against the worst case scenarios. only by considering every possibility will we have grown up, well balanced views. ;)

[cliffbo]

no, no. it wouldn't have been more accurate since both are perfectly correct. I was only pointing out one of the differences between British and American English. we actually had a small discussion about this very point a long time ago and thought I would mention it again as a general info and in case someone was wondering. :book:

I know. sometimes I'm just exciting like that.:ko:

i know Z ;). i was just pointing out that the American IS is the more accurate and that i believe the difference here is that in Britain we see a company in the plural simply because our mind set is inclined that way... i could be wrong though

[Viano]

jvd still alive? LMXxXO

[makeitlookreal]

I believe that by the time games like Metal Gear Solid 4 and Resident Evil 5 come out that the graphics of the PS3 will blow away the competition completely.

[VG Aficionado]

jvd still alive? LMXxXONot anymore in the PS3 board, thankfully. His distaste (or should I say "hate") for the Japanese is shocking to say the least. It may look like he's favouring the Wii in that argument but he's definately just using it for the sake of criticising PS3 (or poorly attempting to do so in that case, LOL). Just like when he attacked Wii's graphics and accused Nintendo for not paying attention to that deparment unlike Sony and Microsoft.

[cliffbo]

I believe that by the time games like Metal Gear Solid 4 and Resident Evil 5 come out that the graphics of the PS3 will blow away the competition completely.

i agree fella... you've got your optimism back! hope you had a good xmas :) photo realism not so far away eh?

[cliffbo]

another way of looking at the whole Wii situation is to realise that, if Nintendo are successful in promoting gameplay over graphics, this gives the PS2 a rebirth, which means more sales for PS2 and ,ultimately, more gamers who will eventually upgrade to PS3

[Nameless]

I find the Wii/360 push amusing...
Microsoft may give away the #2 spot directly to Nintendo...

[cliffbo]

I find the Wii/360 push amusing...
Microsoft may give away the #2 spot directly to Nintendo...

i have to agree. the insistence of MS to consider the Wii60 idea (because they know we are moving into a duel console ownership world) could well back fire. clever of MS to promote the Wii... LOL PlaystationWii
is more likely...

[woundingchaney]

With the next gen my main concern is everything seems so stale to me. Not just on anyone console as even pc titles are following the same issues. Non of the genres are really bringing much new other than adv. graphics and physics (maybe better AI). I suppose this is were the Wii comes in but I have a hard time putting much time in with the console.

It seems like every gen there is the introduction of at least one new genre, I hope to see something come about this gen with the consoles.

[Z]

It seems like every gen there is the introduction of at least one new genre, I hope to see something come about this gen with the consoles.
serious effort in RTS and all types of MMOs (FPS, Driving, RPG, social, etc.)?

and it may not only be new game genre, but I enjoy what every new wave of tech introduces to the console arena. this gen, we have tv shows and movie downloads and playable demo downloads. with unique tweaks of each product.

[OmniCloud]

With the next gen my main concern is everything seems so stale to me. Not just on anyone console as even pc titles are following the same issues. Non of the genres are really bringing much new other than adv. graphics and physics (maybe better AI). I suppose this is were the Wii comes in but I have a hard time putting much time in with the console.

It seems like every gen there is the introduction of at least one new genre, I hope to see something come about this gen with the consoles.QFT...+rep

I remember FF7, GTA3, MGS2, FFX, Halo, Devil May Cry and others like Shadow of the colossus that just made me fall in love with gaming all over again. Where's the game that makes me feel like that again? Maybe MGS4 will reinvent the wheel again. Or maybe team Ico or Bungie will make there games blend many genres together.

'm not really worried though wounding, this is the first generation of titles, and those games I mentioned did have a bit of a wait to them as well. Maybe David Jaffe will make us cry some day who knows?

But I do miss the feel of the old games, there was something about Mario games, something about finding easter eggs and having jokes from previous games in the one your playing (MGS) that made you realize the devs who made this were truly artists and imaginative people. I haven't gotten that experience yet with 360-but I think Halo 3 will be the first game to do it. For PS3 I look for Kojima to do some amazing things with MGS4 and Polyphony to once again prove that you don't have to pick up you keys to have a drive...

[Garfunkel]

i have to agree. the insistence of MS to consider the Wii60 idea (because they know we are moving into a duel console ownership world) could well back fire. clever of MS to promote the Wii... LOL PlaystationWii
is more likely...

The Wii60 stuff doesn't add up, literally.

[jaxmkii]

The Wii60 stuff doesn't add up, literally.
you could always argue that for the price of a 360 you can buy a PS2 and Wii.

enter the psW2 campain

[Z]

Where's the game that makes me feel like that again?
PS3 and Rev just launched a few weeks ago. X2 was all alone so it didn't have much to push for, though Oblivion was a breath of fresh air in the WRPG genre and a high bar to be matched by other devs.

but wait a little. Afrika looks interesting. and I say having 40 player online multiplayer is an added zest that is brought by the new systems. and who can forget White Knight Story that looks instantly captivating and immersing?
I think Test Drive brought something new to online on consoles. and of course, Zelda continues to push the envelope. an envelope that seem very little if any in the industry is even trying to compete with.

in any case, give it a little while. there is a reason why the gaming world clings to tightly on these innovative titles and new takes on established genre; they don't show up everyday. each generation has its own 'flavor' of games and its big hitters and new outbreaks. just enjoy what these new systems have to offer till the next big surprise lands on our laps. :)

[romi]

hello everybody,am new here.great post cliff.

[Sephiroth_VII]

Welcome to the forum, romi.

Just for your information, most of us here appreciate good grammar. It's a little annoying to look at posts with no spaces or anything.

[cliffbo]

this is one of my biggest concerns

i think in our pursuit of realism through FPS and over the shoulder games and of course other titles like Motorstorm that demand realism, we have actually limited the possibilities for innovation. ICO, SotC and Okami are niche markets that sell well but not on the scale of other less innovative titles. Even GOW couldn't be called groundbreaking, it just did everything sooo well. just like side scrollers many years back that lead us into a situation of jump, shoot, avoid, so FPS have lead us into a situation of hide, shoot, avoid.

we are already beginning to judge a games lifespan on its online... this is total nonsense as far as i'm concerned. yes you may be able to play a game for 10 hours even 20 or 40 or 100 or 200 but thats not replayability thats dreadful, repetitive gameplay. 'ooooo look i shot him again... i win' give me a goddamn break fellas.

there is only one answer and that is niche downloadable games that are made by innovative first time programmers who have a limited budget but a thirst for the undiscovered. this by the way is another possible plus for Sony who seem to be aggressively pursuing this market at the moment.

[cliffbo]

there is only one logical reason why Sony haven't done as much as they could to hold onto those exclusives: it has to be that they are confident enough to rely on in house development. it works for Nintendo

edit. it could also suggest that Sony are confident that given time and the discovery of the real power of cell/rsx, devs will be forced to utilise PS3 to the fullest. 3 years?

[Nameless]

^ I believe you are correct, but that's a huge gamble on Sony's part...
Also, historically the console with the largest library of games succeed.
I'm somewhat disappointed with my 360's library because most of the AAA titles are shooters. Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of shooters, but you can have too much of a good thing... Perhaps the PS3 will deliver a large variety of titles or the increased cost of game development will only allow creativity on downloadable titles... :(

[cliffbo]

^ I believe you are correct, but that's a huge gamble on Sony's part...
Also, historically the console with the largest library of games succeed.
I'm somewhat disappointed with my 360's library because most of the AAA titles are shooters. Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of shooters, but you can have too much of a good thing... Perhaps the PS3 will deliver a large variety of titles or the increased cost of game development will only allow creativity on downloadable titles... :(

yeh nameless, thats my take on it. yes it seems a big risk for Sony. would Sony take such a big risk... or do they know something we don't... if so what?... the real power of cell/rsx? what if the cell alone can produce games on a par with the opposition and the rsx gives it a boost for when xbox3 is released.

edit nameless. those dowloadable games don't have to remain dowloadable. if a great idea comes along then there is nothing stopping Sony from approaching the devs responsible with more money for them to develop a true PS3 game on Blu-ray disk. or even a PSP version...

[OmniCloud]

yeh nameless, thats my take on it. yes it seems a big risk for Sony. would Sony take such a big risk... or do they know something we don't... if so what?... the real power of cell/rsx? what if the cell alone can produce games on a par with the opposition and the rsx gives it a boost for when xbox3 is released.

edit nameless. those dowloadable games don't have to remain dowloadable. if a great idea comes along then there is nothing stopping Sony from approaching the devs responsible with more money for them to develop a true PS3 game on Blu-ray disk. or even a PSP version...When my most anticipated titles for 07 are Calling all Cars, Flow, Heavenly Sword, and MGS4-I'd say the Playstation store will be the true PS3 advantage...Motion control=Better gaming IMO...I look to spend many hours on Wii and PS3 because of it...

[EvilTaru]

there is only one logical reason why Sony haven't done as much as they could to hold onto those exclusives: it has to be that they are confident enough to rely on in house development. it works for Nintendo

edit. it could also suggest that Sony are confident that given time and the discovery of the real power of cell/rsx, devs will be forced to utilise PS3 to the fullest. 3 years?

Who's to say they aren't trying to hold on to exclusives? Lose Bladestorm, get Gundam Musou, etc. Ultimately it's up to the publishers, unless Sony publishes every third-party exclusive title but then technically those would still be classified as first-party published titles. Nintendo platforms are still NOT third-party friendly, that is NOT the case for the PS3 or any of the Playstation platforms.

The point is Sony needs to expand their in-house development, the need is definitely there due to the increased multiplatforming of titles, which carries with it the outcome of not tapping into any of the platforms fully, it's inevitable that first-party developers will produce titles that are at the very least technically superior to multiplatform titles.

[yoshaw]

The point is Sony needs to expand their in-house development, the need is definitely there due to the increased multiplatforming of titles, which carries with it the outcome of not tapping into any of the platforms fully, it's inevitable that first-party developers will produce titles that are at the very least technically superior to multiplatform titles.

Sony has 2200 developers in its helm at the SCEWW. That's not a small figure by any stretch. The last time I heard, it was Dean Takahashi who admitted Sony's 2200 figure to be 3-4 times bigger than either of the MS/Nintendo in-house dev staff. Important to note that this revelation came a month or two after E3 2005. So we can safely assume, that SCEWW must have hired or fully acquired a few hundred more since then.

Shinpai surna(worry not!) Eviltaru :) , Sony's already doing a hell lot of a better job than its competition by introducing new IP's, a whole lot of which we're aware of and the other lot still to be disclosed in the future. And then there are the obvious 1st party sequels that are still doing fresh rounds on PS2 yet to appear on PS3, no? :)

PS: Great to see everyone contributing in a worthwhile discussion. How you all been :). I missed you guys sooo much :P

[OmniCloud]

Welcome Back Yoshaw!!!:rockon:

[EvilTaru]

Sony has 2200 developers in its helm at the SCEWW. That's not a small figure by any stretch. The last time I heard, it was Dean Takahashi who admitted Sony's 2200 figure to be 3-4 times bigger than either of the MS/Nintendo in-house dev staff. Important to note that this revelation came a month or two after E3 2005. So we can safely assume, that SCEWW must have hired or fully acquired a few hundred more since then.

Shinpai surna(worry not!) Eviltaru :) , Sony's already doing a hell lot of a better job than its competition by introducing new IP's, a whole lot of which we're aware of and the other lot still to be disclosed in the future. And then there are the obvious 1st party sequels that are still doing fresh rounds on PS2 yet to appear on PS3, no? :)

PS: Great to see everyone contributing in a worthwhile discussion. How you all been :). I missed you guys sooo much :P

Welcome back. ~_~

[Z]

there is only one logical reason why Sony haven't done as much as they could to hold onto those exclusives: it has to be that they are confident enough to rely on in house development. it works for Nintendo
or, they could be waiting for more system sales and pushing it with first-party till there is a good number out there to attract more 3rd party dev (like how Sony always did it).

it doesn't sound like Sony to not want the biggest 3rd party support. that is one of the landmarks of Playstation gaming.
and I repeat, what is happening to PS3 is what always happen to any new system launch. X2 had a similar enough ride and that was only last year. tis the nature of console launches. I would worry in a year's time, but not now. do you know how many big project launching on PS3 within the next few months? and I do mean launching not in development or announced. :)

[Garfunkel]

Welcome back Yoshaw, its good to have you back man.

[Domination]

First party will be the ones that pushes the console to it's limits. This is why SCEWWS was created. It will also carry over to Sony's second party as far as assistance.

360's controller is pretty comfortable actually-they made it as small as the PS2 and switch the analog with a d-pad. The triggers feel good, don't know If I like them better than the sqishy's on PS3 pad though-haven't played with it that long. PS3 definitely had the best pad though, everything is kinda molded after the dualshock 2...

The 360's controller, to me, still needs work before it reaches the PlayStation controller, but I do like the triggers and handles. The D-pad needs work the most and so does the shoulder buttons. Only smaller problems lie in the analog sticks, which can be easily overlooked if not for everything else.

[cliffbo]

in my opinion it will take a while before devs realise the potential of Sixaxis because their eyes are on the money at the moment (understandable if you take a look at the number of consoles out there) but as PS3 increase in numbers and Sony show what can be achieved with their in house developers, other third party developers will be forced to put that extra yard in or risk bad reviews. it will come good in the end. its only a concern... its not set in stone

[cliffbo]

a few interesting comments here for those who like hypothesis

Here are some comments from Japanese leading game producers regarding to the new year:

* Kenji Matsuhara (Koei director and producer) - his team will focus on producing games for PlayStation 3 that game fans enjoy; and unlock many possibilities from the CELL processor
* Hiroshi Matsuyama (Cyberconnect 2 president and producer) - the company will emphasize on the three next-gen platforms, development has already begun
* Takao Miyoshi (Sega's Phantasy Star Universe producer) - Nintendo Wii offers enormous potential, his team will focus on online capabilities of the three next-gen platforms
* Yuji Naka (Sega) - he is interested in making games utilizing new input devices such as Wii Remote and PS3 SIXAXIS controller, new ways to interact with games are very important
* Souhei Shinkawa (Nippon Ichi) - he pointed out the game market is shrinking and sales of high profile games are declining; so creating games which make good use of hardware capabilities is important. He wants to create a game that fans could truly enjoy.
* Makoto Yoshidzumi (Tales Studio / Bandai Namco) - the Tales series has never been really pursuing latest technology and CG, instead developers focused on adopting existing available technologies. He feels that it is time to revise the concepts behind the Tales series.
* Akihiko Hino (Level 5 president) - the company is working hard on its first adventure game Layton Kyouju no Fushigi na Machi and Square Enix's Dragon Quest IX for NDS. Its Sony PS3 RPG Shirokishi Monogatari is still in early stages in development
* Atsushi Taniguchi (From Software) - the company is working on a new NDS title, which is the latest working on an existing franchise with multiplayer support.

[OmniCloud]

Mark my words-The Wii and PS store are gonna usher in some of the best experiences ever!

[Z]

* Kenji Matsuhara (Koei director and producer) - his team will focus on producing games for PlayStation 3 that game fans enjoy; and unlock many possibilities from the CELL processor
here's what I read: "blah blah blah Dynasty Warrior clones blah blah blah.

* Akihiko Hino (Level 5 president) - the company is working hard on its first adventure game Layton Kyouju no Fushigi na Machi and Square Enix's Dragon Quest IX for NDS. Its Sony PS3 RPG Shirokishi Monogatari is still in early stages in development
I feel it and FF13 won't arrive till 08- at least not in English.

[venomv]

Sony is still trying to get the third party exclusives. It is just hard to entice publishers with 750K sales............give it time.

And another good thing is Sony's first party devs are defently growing, and when you have the guys that have made SotC (just got it for Christmas...amazing), KZ, SOCOM, Jak and Daxter, Twisted Metal, Rachet and Clank, and GT all working together (and others I surely forgot), you are bound to have a few good games.....

And Welcome back, Yoshaw.

[yoshaw]

I feel it and FF13 won't arrive till 08- at least not in English.

In English? I'd say the first/second quarter of 2009 at best.

Reasons: Lots of speech, after all its bluray and I'm expecting both White Knight and FFXIII (but especially WK) to totally disband from the text balloons of yore.

[frosty]

How do you know they haven't been recording voice overs for 2 years now? My prediction... fall 2008.

[Garfunkel]

They do the voices first, so the animation team can make it look more real.

The simpsons do it too.

[venomv]

In English? I'd say the first/second quarter of 2009 at best.

Reasons: Lots of speech, after all its bluray and I'm expecting both White Knight and FFXIII (but especially WK) to totally disband from the text balloons of yore.

Provided they don't almost fill a dual-layer BD with FMV (I could see that happening), they should be able to fit at least the English and Japanese languages and maybe what they would need to sell in Europe in the same disk.

It is cheaper just to have one disk that goes everywhere than 3-4 versions of the same game, not to mention, because of the amount of space and the fact games are region free, I expect for there to be far less time between games being released in Japan to be released in the rest of the world, than in the past. (Yay for run-on sentences)

[yoshaw]

How do you know they haven't been recording voice overs for 2 years now? My prediction... fall 2008.

Good question frosty. Though the lack of an answer doesn't make my prediction any less probable than yours hehe ;)

Don't mistake me for not wanting these two games soon. Just that expecting full English voice overs and then full fledged next-gen games with CG quality graphics. I hope it arrives on time as you guys want it(in 2008). I was only adding a delay or two into the mix and then making a no. out of it.

[venomv]

Well with SE's record a delay or two is almost a given, fortunatly they always deleiver once they get finished, at least with their big names.

[cliffbo]

Provided they don't almost fill a dual-layer BD with FMV (I could see that happening), they should be able to fit at least the English and Japanese languages and maybe what they would need to sell in Europe in the same disk.

It is cheaper just to have one disk that goes everywhere than 3-4 versions of the same game, not to mention, because of the amount of space and the fact games are region free, I expect for there to be far less time between games being released in Japan to be released in the rest of the world, than in the past. (Yay for run-on sentences)

i've got this feeling that all cut scenes are going to be done with the in game engine.

another concern of mine is the way large amounts of money are being thrown around to procure software houses. it may be great to have exclusivity, but it almost inevitably leads to a narrowing of imagination. when money matters more than innovation, the company responsible for purchasing those once imaginative devs will apply pressure and end up calling the shots... there is an up side to this though: it sometimes leads to innovative devs leaving the purchased software house and maybe joining a more open handed company. i wonder where those guys went who developed Okami? Sony i hope

[venomv]

i've got this feeling that all cut scenes are going to be done with the in game engine.

I doubt it, while the real-time stuff does look great, there will always be more you can do with FMV, and they like that to much and they have, in my opinion, the best FMV artists in the industry (who I think probably are different guys then the in-game artists).

[Red_Eyes]

360's controller is pretty comfortable actually-they made it as small as the PS2 and switch the analog with a d-pad. The triggers feel good, don't know If I like them better than the sqishy's on PS3 pad though-haven't played with it that long. PS3 definitely had the best pad though, everything is kinda molded after the dualshock 2...

I didn't realize that they added two more shoulder buttons on the 360 controllers. And it felt kinda akward using those buttons. They're not comfortable to press like the PS2 controller.

[venomv]

They are in a weird position, my fingers like to slip to them when I don't want them to.

They didn't add anything, they just moved the black and white buttons to the top sans the color. Good change in my opinion.